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414.935, \"text\": \"一月底以前臉書、IG、TREI他們是整個母公司嘛一月底以前可以全部實施廣告的實名制所以說到時候我們看到不管是假冒什麼某某某名人假冒什麼投資社\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 396.109, \"end\": 396.249, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 396.249, \"end\": 396.469, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 396.469, \"end\": 396.649, \"score\": 0.716}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 396.649, \"end\": 396.829, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 396.829, \"end\": 397.469, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"臉\"}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"I\", \"start\": 397.469, \"end\": 398.31, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"G\", \"start\": 398.31, \"end\": 399.43, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"T\", \"start\": 399.43, \"end\": 400.57, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"R\", \"start\": 400.57, \"end\": 400.71, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"E\", \"start\": 400.71, \"end\": 400.911, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"I\", \"start\": 400.911, \"end\": 401.691, \"score\": 0.941}, 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\"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 578.907, \"end\": 581.01, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"洪\", \"start\": 581.01, \"end\": 581.11, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"孟\", \"start\": 581.11, \"end\": 581.25, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"楷\", \"start\": 581.25, \"end\": 581.39, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 581.39, \"end\": 581.41, \"score\": 0.387}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,571 --> 00:00:20,840\n來麻煩主席請我們數位部黃部長來黃部長請來黃部長道高一尺摩真的可以高一丈嗎\n\n2\n00:00:22,537 --> 00:00:38,992\n我們數位部不管一年幾十億預算或是一開始的時候聯同前瞻計畫有上百億的預算說實在話要人給人要錢給錢我們也希望是說能夠真正做到詐騙的一個防詐的一個功能但是本席會這樣問是因為111政府簡訊平台\n\n3\n00:00:43,095 --> 00:00:51,790\n去年10月當時的唐鳳部長講說明年1月也就是2024年正式上線設三關卡賭詐騙\n\n4\n00:00:53,991 --> 00:00:55,672\n從今年1月開始正式上線到現在10月多11月來\n\n5\n00:01:21,132 --> 00:01:38,420\n新聞就出來了嘛就破貨詐騙集團政府的簡訊一一有假然後被詐團破解2G發送來他用兩個看起來我不知道這算是精不精密啊但看起來我覺得這蠻土法煉鋼的啊\n\n6\n00:01:40,129 --> 00:01:54,352\n就這樣子兩台機器不大就可以把我們政府都過去花了多少錢那麼多數位科技人才的速發部做出來的111簡訊給破解然後發送繳費假訊息再來我們新聞台做連線報導那他發送什麼樣的訊息我想這跟我們剛剛好幾位委員共同關心的不管是有什麼政府的繳費\n\n7\n00:02:09,628 --> 00:02:38,292\n收費等等因為他等於是他就利用假借政府的名義嘛那那個時候大家看到是說111覺得是說啊就安心了看到111傳來就是可以點開放心了結果不是這麼回事來部長我給你機會時間說明一下到底是我們想得太天真還是把詐騙集團想得太白癡還是我們自己真真正正根本不了解說現在環境多麼兇險以為推出一個東西就可以天衣無縫結果不到一年就被破解\n\n8\n00:03:07,918 --> 00:03:20,189\n我們看一下所以我們這個新聞出來也快兩三個禮拜了對不對那我們現在統計到底有多少民眾接到這個集團被詐騙所以二級手機目前現在統計多少\n\n9\n00:03:21,089 --> 00:03:22,070\n所以現在到底有多少被詐騙?\n\n10\n00:03:48,903 --> 00:04:05,831\n二級手機目前還有在用的應該不多但是我沒有數字但是沒有數字所以看到現在這樣的一個狀況沒有數字好本席再請教不管是我們速發部有推出的一個通報網或者是現在我們刑事警察局有所謂的這個打詐儀表板對不對詐騙是大幅的成長\n\n11\n00:04:38,954 --> 00:04:50,903\n以前可能美化這個數字可能讓這個數字感覺相對來講比較有差汁抹粉那現在沒有啊所以才會說我們現在看到說一年一個月有高達百億的一個詐騙\n\n12\n00:04:53,183 --> 00:04:58,625\n主要是針對所謂的這個廣告平台上的這些詐騙那從廣告平台上的詐騙我們開始進行這個一些這個機制包括實名制以後我們目前看到的確在假廣告的詐騙有下降90%以上\n\n13\n00:05:13,251 --> 00:05:17,093\n﹚立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會及立法院第12屆第3會期交通委員會及立法院第4會期交通委員會及\n\n14\n00:05:39,847 --> 00:06:06,196\n市長他絕對不是單一部會的議題我同意因為這個也是過去到現在我們一直要求的就不是要各部會互踢皮球就是說你踢我我踢你到之後這個負責的變成是說就反正是員警的責任也不是嘛所以說我們要從源頭管理源頭阻止源頭把關來讓詐騙的犯罪成本提高高到是說他認為是他根本不合算他就不會想要來詐騙了嘛\n\n15\n00:06:07,316 --> 00:06:35,829\n所以源頭我們這邊看到有在減少所以應該在未來幾個月所以之前我也一直很關心時間也有限但是我一直很關心就所謂的六大平台你們現在廣告實名制的部分現在到底進度如何現在Google跟Line已經落實實名制了從這個月開始那那個像那個Facebook對他答應在從現在開始實施了從高風險他已經答應我們在1月底前會全面實施\n\n16\n00:06:36,109 --> 00:06:54,935\n一月底以前臉書、IG、TREI他們是整個母公司嘛一月底以前可以全部實施廣告的實名制所以說到時候我們看到不管是假冒什麼某某某名人假冒什麼投資社\n\n17\n00:06:55,555 --> 00:07:15,396\n他下面一定都會有實名制一定會有一個帳號投入那所以說如果說他是詐騙的也可以循線順藤摸瓜去找到後面的用戶刊登的廣告那後到時我們有任何的一個詐騙的一個罰則也都可以來做處罰那這一個人他有可能是國內還國外\n\n18\n00:07:16,833 --> 00:07:38,485\n當然就是說他若實名制的時候他這個他必須確認這本人的ID嘛這個當然投放廣告可以在國外但是就是說至少你可以回溯在到這個真正的人那如果是國外的話那當然就是要藉由這個部長那要不要部長這樣子有沒有聽到我覺得還是會有漏洞\n\n19\n00:07:39,898 --> 00:08:06,148\n如果說他現在是用國外的帳號就像之前一直講我們說為什麼詐騙的機房放在的是他機房放在的是東南亞他為什麼放在東南亞就是因為他們可能在東南亞有一些機房然後打電話來台灣來做詐騙然後再由台灣的車手他們等於是犯罪集團不同的分工那如果說你今天這樣子實名制的話你會不會一樣是他可能機房一樣是在東南亞其他國家裡面來做投放廣告\n\n20\n00:08:06,708 --> 00:08:29,966\n有一些廣告像投資金融的廣告那個就要是國內的人才能夠下廣告這是Facebook會跟我們合作的那至於還有一些因為金融詐騙現在在投資上面大概佔了80%所以那是最大源頭先把這個堵住那至於說其他的詐騙廣告我們經過國際刑警的互助將來也希望在這邊能夠很快的去杜絕部長\n\n21\n00:08:30,686 --> 00:08:49,091\n但本席提出來這個問題既然我們都認為可以從源頭管理來減輕增加犯罪成本減輕犯罪的一個樣態跟狀況的話就請你好好的溝通那既然可以金融廣告他一定是要在國內才有辦法投放的話那其他廣告應該也要比就相關詐騙廣告應該比較辦理\n\n22\n00:08:50,971 --> 00:08:50,991\n韓國瑜\n\n23\n00:09:14,082 --> 00:09:26,771\n對我們來講我們主管機關的責任跟功能就是要告訴他即便是有錢賺你也不能賺因為這個就是非法的錢這個就是詐騙集團的錢這個就是投入之後會增加犯罪風險的錢是吧完全同意\n\n24\n00:09:27,652 --> 00:09:41,410\n好,麻煩再請一月底你剛剛有講到一月底的時候這幾個這個平台的部分會有相關實名制的一個規劃是不是可以給書面資料給本席好不好謝謝謝謝洪孟楷委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3571\t20840\t來麻煩主席請我們數位部黃部長來黃部長請來黃部長道高一尺摩真的可以高一丈嗎\n22537\t38992\t我們數位部不管一年幾十億預算或是一開始的時候聯同前瞻計畫有上百億的預算說實在話要人給人要錢給錢我們也希望是說能夠真正做到詐騙的一個防詐的一個功能但是本席會這樣問是因為111政府簡訊平台\n43095\t51790\t去年10月當時的唐鳳部長講說明年1月也就是2024年正式上線設三關卡賭詐騙\n53991\t55672\t從今年1月開始正式上線到現在10月多11月來\n81132\t98420\t新聞就出來了嘛就破貨詐騙集團政府的簡訊一一有假然後被詐團破解2G發送來他用兩個看起來我不知道這算是精不精密啊但看起來我覺得這蠻土法煉鋼的啊\n100129\t114352\t就這樣子兩台機器不大就可以把我們政府都過去花了多少錢那麼多數位科技人才的速發部做出來的111簡訊給破解然後發送繳費假訊息再來我們新聞台做連線報導那他發送什麼樣的訊息我想這跟我們剛剛好幾位委員共同關心的不管是有什麼政府的繳費\n129628\t158292\t收費等等因為他等於是他就利用假借政府的名義嘛那那個時候大家看到是說111覺得是說啊就安心了看到111傳來就是可以點開放心了結果不是這麼回事來部長我給你機會時間說明一下到底是我們想得太天真還是把詐騙集團想得太白癡還是我們自己真真正正根本不了解說現在環境多麼兇險以為推出一個東西就可以天衣無縫結果不到一年就被破解\n158592\t187858\t來﹗\n187918\t200189\t我們看一下所以我們這個新聞出來也快兩三個禮拜了對不對那我們現在統計到底有多少民眾接到這個集團被詐騙所以二級手機目前現在統計多少\n201089\t202070\t所以現在到底有多少被詐騙?\n228903\t245831\t二級手機目前還有在用的應該不多但是我沒有數字但是沒有數字所以看到現在這樣的一個狀況沒有數字好本席再請教不管是我們速發部有推出的一個通報網或者是現在我們刑事警察局有所謂的這個打詐儀表板對不對詐騙是大幅的成長\n250350\t278814\t⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n278954\t290903\t以前可能美化這個數字可能讓這個數字感覺相對來講比較有差汁抹粉那現在沒有啊所以才會說我們現在看到說一年一個月有高達百億的一個詐騙\n293183\t298625\t主要是針對所謂的這個廣告平台上的這些詐騙那從廣告平台上的詐騙我們開始進行這個一些這個機制包括實名制以後我們目前看到的確在假廣告的詐騙有下降90%以上\n313251\t317093\t﹚立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會及立法院第12屆第3會期交通委員會及立法院第4會期交通委員會及\n339847\t366196\t市長他絕對不是單一部會的議題我同意因為這個也是過去到現在我們一直要求的就不是要各部會互踢皮球就是說你踢我我踢你到之後這個負責的變成是說就反正是員警的責任也不是嘛所以說我們要從源頭管理源頭阻止源頭把關來讓詐騙的犯罪成本提高高到是說他認為是他根本不合算他就不會想要來詐騙了嘛\n367316\t395829\t所以源頭我們這邊看到有在減少所以應該在未來幾個月所以之前我也一直很關心時間也有限但是我一直很關心就所謂的六大平台你們現在廣告實名制的部分現在到底進度如何現在Google跟Line已經落實實名制了從這個月開始那那個像那個Facebook對他答應在從現在開始實施了從高風險他已經答應我們在1月底前會全面實施\n396109\t414935\t一月底以前臉書、IG、TREI他們是整個母公司嘛一月底以前可以全部實施廣告的實名制所以說到時候我們看到不管是假冒什麼某某某名人假冒什麼投資社\n415555\t435396\t他下面一定都會有實名制一定會有一個帳號投入那所以說如果說他是詐騙的也可以循線順藤摸瓜去找到後面的用戶刊登的廣告那後到時我們有任何的一個詐騙的一個罰則也都可以來做處罰那這一個人他有可能是國內還國外\n436833\t458485\t當然就是說他若實名制的時候他這個他必須確認這本人的ID嘛這個當然投放廣告可以在國外但是就是說至少你可以回溯在到這個真正的人那如果是國外的話那當然就是要藉由這個部長那要不要部長這樣子有沒有聽到我覺得還是會有漏洞\n459898\t486148\t如果說他現在是用國外的帳號就像之前一直講我們說為什麼詐騙的機房放在的是他機房放在的是東南亞他為什麼放在東南亞就是因為他們可能在東南亞有一些機房然後打電話來台灣來做詐騙然後再由台灣的車手他們等於是犯罪集團不同的分工那如果說你今天這樣子實名制的話你會不會一樣是他可能機房一樣是在東南亞其他國家裡面來做投放廣告\n486708\t509966\t有一些廣告像投資金融的廣告那個就要是國內的人才能夠下廣告這是Facebook會跟我們合作的那至於還有一些因為金融詐騙現在在投資上面大概佔了80%所以那是最大源頭先把這個堵住那至於說其他的詐騙廣告我們經過國際刑警的互助將來也希望在這邊能夠很快的去杜絕部長\n510686\t529091\t但本席提出來這個問題既然我們都認為可以從源頭管理來減輕增加犯罪成本減輕犯罪的一個樣態跟狀況的話就請你好好的溝通那既然可以金融廣告他一定是要在國內才有辦法投放的話那其他廣告應該也要比就相關詐騙廣告應該比較辦理\n530971\t530991\t韓國瑜\n554082\t566771\t對我們來講我們主管機關的責任跟功能就是要告訴他即便是有錢賺你也不能賺因為這個就是非法的錢這個就是詐騙集團的錢這個就是投入之後會增加犯罪風險的錢是吧完全同意\n567652\t581410\t好,麻煩再請一月底你剛剛有講到一月底的時候這幾個這個平台的部分會有相關實名制的一個規劃是不是可以給書面資料給本席好不好謝謝謝謝洪孟楷委員\n","txt":"來麻煩主席請我們數位部黃部長來黃部長請來黃部長道高一尺摩真的可以高一丈嗎\n我們數位部不管一年幾十億預算或是一開始的時候聯同前瞻計畫有上百億的預算說實在話要人給人要錢給錢我們也希望是說能夠真正做到詐騙的一個防詐的一個功能但是本席會這樣問是因為111政府簡訊平台\n去年10月當時的唐鳳部長講說明年1月也就是2024年正式上線設三關卡賭詐騙\n從今年1月開始正式上線到現在10月多11月來\n新聞就出來了嘛就破貨詐騙集團政府的簡訊一一有假然後被詐團破解2G發送來他用兩個看起來我不知道這算是精不精密啊但看起來我覺得這蠻土法煉鋼的啊\n就這樣子兩台機器不大就可以把我們政府都過去花了多少錢那麼多數位科技人才的速發部做出來的111簡訊給破解然後發送繳費假訊息再來我們新聞台做連線報導那他發送什麼樣的訊息我想這跟我們剛剛好幾位委員共同關心的不管是有什麼政府的繳費\n收費等等因為他等於是他就利用假借政府的名義嘛那那個時候大家看到是說111覺得是說啊就安心了看到111傳來就是可以點開放心了結果不是這麼回事來部長我給你機會時間說明一下到底是我們想得太天真還是把詐騙集團想得太白癡還是我們自己真真正正根本不了解說現在環境多麼兇險以為推出一個東西就可以天衣無縫結果不到一年就被破解\n來﹗\n我們看一下所以我們這個新聞出來也快兩三個禮拜了對不對那我們現在統計到底有多少民眾接到這個集團被詐騙所以二級手機目前現在統計多少\n所以現在到底有多少被詐騙?\n二級手機目前還有在用的應該不多但是我沒有數字但是沒有數字所以看到現在這樣的一個狀況沒有數字好本席再請教不管是我們速發部有推出的一個通報網或者是現在我們刑事警察局有所謂的這個打詐儀表板對不對詐騙是大幅的成長\n⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n以前可能美化這個數字可能讓這個數字感覺相對來講比較有差汁抹粉那現在沒有啊所以才會說我們現在看到說一年一個月有高達百億的一個詐騙\n主要是針對所謂的這個廣告平台上的這些詐騙那從廣告平台上的詐騙我們開始進行這個一些這個機制包括實名制以後我們目前看到的確在假廣告的詐騙有下降90%以上\n﹚立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會及立法院第12屆第3會期交通委員會及立法院第4會期交通委員會及\n市長他絕對不是單一部會的議題我同意因為這個也是過去到現在我們一直要求的就不是要各部會互踢皮球就是說你踢我我踢你到之後這個負責的變成是說就反正是員警的責任也不是嘛所以說我們要從源頭管理源頭阻止源頭把關來讓詐騙的犯罪成本提高高到是說他認為是他根本不合算他就不會想要來詐騙了嘛\n所以源頭我們這邊看到有在減少所以應該在未來幾個月所以之前我也一直很關心時間也有限但是我一直很關心就所謂的六大平台你們現在廣告實名制的部分現在到底進度如何現在Google跟Line已經落實實名制了從這個月開始那那個像那個Facebook對他答應在從現在開始實施了從高風險他已經答應我們在1月底前會全面實施\n一月底以前臉書、IG、TREI他們是整個母公司嘛一月底以前可以全部實施廣告的實名制所以說到時候我們看到不管是假冒什麼某某某名人假冒什麼投資社\n他下面一定都會有實名制一定會有一個帳號投入那所以說如果說他是詐騙的也可以循線順藤摸瓜去找到後面的用戶刊登的廣告那後到時我們有任何的一個詐騙的一個罰則也都可以來做處罰那這一個人他有可能是國內還國外\n當然就是說他若實名制的時候他這個他必須確認這本人的ID嘛這個當然投放廣告可以在國外但是就是說至少你可以回溯在到這個真正的人那如果是國外的話那當然就是要藉由這個部長那要不要部長這樣子有沒有聽到我覺得還是會有漏洞\n如果說他現在是用國外的帳號就像之前一直講我們說為什麼詐騙的機房放在的是他機房放在的是東南亞他為什麼放在東南亞就是因為他們可能在東南亞有一些機房然後打電話來台灣來做詐騙然後再由台灣的車手他們等於是犯罪集團不同的分工那如果說你今天這樣子實名制的話你會不會一樣是他可能機房一樣是在東南亞其他國家裡面來做投放廣告\n有一些廣告像投資金融的廣告那個就要是國內的人才能夠下廣告這是Facebook會跟我們合作的那至於還有一些因為金融詐騙現在在投資上面大概佔了80%所以那是最大源頭先把這個堵住那至於說其他的詐騙廣告我們經過國際刑警的互助將來也希望在這邊能夠很快的去杜絕部長\n但本席提出來這個問題既然我們都認為可以從源頭管理來減輕增加犯罪成本減輕犯罪的一個樣態跟狀況的話就請你好好的溝通那既然可以金融廣告他一定是要在國內才有辦法投放的話那其他廣告應該也要比就相關詐騙廣告應該比較辦理\n韓國瑜\n對我們來講我們主管機關的責任跟功能就是要告訴他即便是有錢賺你也不能賺因為這個就是非法的錢這個就是詐騙集團的錢這個就是投入之後會增加犯罪風險的錢是吧完全同意\n好,麻煩再請一月底你剛剛有講到一月底的時候這幾個這個平台的部分會有相關實名制的一個規劃是不是可以給書面資料給本席好不好謝謝謝謝洪孟楷委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.571 --> 00:20.840\n來麻煩主席請我們數位部黃部長來黃部長請來黃部長道高一尺摩真的可以高一丈嗎\n\n00:22.537 --> 00:38.992\n我們數位部不管一年幾十億預算或是一開始的時候聯同前瞻計畫有上百億的預算說實在話要人給人要錢給錢我們也希望是說能夠真正做到詐騙的一個防詐的一個功能但是本席會這樣問是因為111政府簡訊平台\n\n00:43.095 --> 00:51.790\n去年10月當時的唐鳳部長講說明年1月也就是2024年正式上線設三關卡賭詐騙\n\n00:53.991 --> 00:55.672\n從今年1月開始正式上線到現在10月多11月來\n\n01:21.132 --> 01:38.420\n新聞就出來了嘛就破貨詐騙集團政府的簡訊一一有假然後被詐團破解2G發送來他用兩個看起來我不知道這算是精不精密啊但看起來我覺得這蠻土法煉鋼的啊\n\n01:40.129 --> 01:54.352\n就這樣子兩台機器不大就可以把我們政府都過去花了多少錢那麼多數位科技人才的速發部做出來的111簡訊給破解然後發送繳費假訊息再來我們新聞台做連線報導那他發送什麼樣的訊息我想這跟我們剛剛好幾位委員共同關心的不管是有什麼政府的繳費\n\n02:09.628 --> 02:38.292\n收費等等因為他等於是他就利用假借政府的名義嘛那那個時候大家看到是說111覺得是說啊就安心了看到111傳來就是可以點開放心了結果不是這麼回事來部長我給你機會時間說明一下到底是我們想得太天真還是把詐騙集團想得太白癡還是我們自己真真正正根本不了解說現在環境多麼兇險以為推出一個東西就可以天衣無縫結果不到一年就被破解\n\n03:07.918 --> 03:20.189\n我們看一下所以我們這個新聞出來也快兩三個禮拜了對不對那我們現在統計到底有多少民眾接到這個集團被詐騙所以二級手機目前現在統計多少\n\n03:21.089 --> 03:22.070\n所以現在到底有多少被詐騙?\n\n03:48.903 --> 04:05.831\n二級手機目前還有在用的應該不多但是我沒有數字但是沒有數字所以看到現在這樣的一個狀況沒有數字好本席再請教不管是我們速發部有推出的一個通報網或者是現在我們刑事警察局有所謂的這個打詐儀表板對不對詐騙是大幅的成長\n\n04:38.954 --> 04:50.903\n以前可能美化這個數字可能讓這個數字感覺相對來講比較有差汁抹粉那現在沒有啊所以才會說我們現在看到說一年一個月有高達百億的一個詐騙\n\n04:53.183 --> 04:58.625\n主要是針對所謂的這個廣告平台上的這些詐騙那從廣告平台上的詐騙我們開始進行這個一些這個機制包括實名制以後我們目前看到的確在假廣告的詐騙有下降90%以上\n\n05:13.251 --> 05:17.093\n﹚立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會及立法院第12屆第3會期交通委員會及立法院第4會期交通委員會及\n\n05:39.847 --> 06:06.196\n市長他絕對不是單一部會的議題我同意因為這個也是過去到現在我們一直要求的就不是要各部會互踢皮球就是說你踢我我踢你到之後這個負責的變成是說就反正是員警的責任也不是嘛所以說我們要從源頭管理源頭阻止源頭把關來讓詐騙的犯罪成本提高高到是說他認為是他根本不合算他就不會想要來詐騙了嘛\n\n06:07.316 --> 06:35.829\n所以源頭我們這邊看到有在減少所以應該在未來幾個月所以之前我也一直很關心時間也有限但是我一直很關心就所謂的六大平台你們現在廣告實名制的部分現在到底進度如何現在Google跟Line已經落實實名制了從這個月開始那那個像那個Facebook對他答應在從現在開始實施了從高風險他已經答應我們在1月底前會全面實施\n\n06:36.109 --> 06:54.935\n一月底以前臉書、IG、TREI他們是整個母公司嘛一月底以前可以全部實施廣告的實名制所以說到時候我們看到不管是假冒什麼某某某名人假冒什麼投資社\n\n06:55.555 --> 07:15.396\n他下面一定都會有實名制一定會有一個帳號投入那所以說如果說他是詐騙的也可以循線順藤摸瓜去找到後面的用戶刊登的廣告那後到時我們有任何的一個詐騙的一個罰則也都可以來做處罰那這一個人他有可能是國內還國外\n\n07:16.833 --> 07:38.485\n當然就是說他若實名制的時候他這個他必須確認這本人的ID嘛這個當然投放廣告可以在國外但是就是說至少你可以回溯在到這個真正的人那如果是國外的話那當然就是要藉由這個部長那要不要部長這樣子有沒有聽到我覺得還是會有漏洞\n\n07:39.898 --> 08:06.148\n如果說他現在是用國外的帳號就像之前一直講我們說為什麼詐騙的機房放在的是他機房放在的是東南亞他為什麼放在東南亞就是因為他們可能在東南亞有一些機房然後打電話來台灣來做詐騙然後再由台灣的車手他們等於是犯罪集團不同的分工那如果說你今天這樣子實名制的話你會不會一樣是他可能機房一樣是在東南亞其他國家裡面來做投放廣告\n\n08:06.708 --> 08:29.966\n有一些廣告像投資金融的廣告那個就要是國內的人才能夠下廣告這是Facebook會跟我們合作的那至於還有一些因為金融詐騙現在在投資上面大概佔了80%所以那是最大源頭先把這個堵住那至於說其他的詐騙廣告我們經過國際刑警的互助將來也希望在這邊能夠很快的去杜絕部長\n\n08:30.686 --> 08:49.091\n但本席提出來這個問題既然我們都認為可以從源頭管理來減輕增加犯罪成本減輕犯罪的一個樣態跟狀況的話就請你好好的溝通那既然可以金融廣告他一定是要在國內才有辦法投放的話那其他廣告應該也要比就相關詐騙廣告應該比較辦理\n\n08:50.971 --> 08:50.991\n韓國瑜\n\n09:14.082 --> 09:26.771\n對我們來講我們主管機關的責任跟功能就是要告訴他即便是有錢賺你也不能賺因為這個就是非法的錢這個就是詐騙集團的錢這個就是投入之後會增加犯罪風險的錢是吧完全同意\n\n09:27.652 --> 09:41.410\n好,麻煩再請一月底你剛剛有講到一月底的時候這幾個這個平台的部分會有相關實名制的一個規劃是不是可以給書面資料給本席好不好謝謝謝謝洪孟楷委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.571,"end":20.84,"text":"來麻煩主席請我們數位部黃部長來黃部長請來黃部長道高一尺摩真的可以高一丈嗎"},{"start":22.537,"end":38.992,"text":"我們數位部不管一年幾十億預算或是一開始的時候聯同前瞻計畫有上百億的預算說實在話要人給人要錢給錢我們也希望是說能夠真正做到詐騙的一個防詐的一個功能但是本席會這樣問是因為111政府簡訊平台"},{"start":43.095,"end":51.79,"text":"去年10月當時的唐鳳部長講說明年1月也就是2024年正式上線設三關卡賭詐騙"},{"start":53.991,"end":55.672,"text":"從今年1月開始正式上線到現在10月多11月來"},{"start":81.132,"end":98.42,"text":"新聞就出來了嘛就破貨詐騙集團政府的簡訊一一有假然後被詐團破解2G發送來他用兩個看起來我不知道這算是精不精密啊但看起來我覺得這蠻土法煉鋼的啊"},{"start":100.129,"end":114.352,"text":"就這樣子兩台機器不大就可以把我們政府都過去花了多少錢那麼多數位科技人才的速發部做出來的111簡訊給破解然後發送繳費假訊息再來我們新聞台做連線報導那他發送什麼樣的訊息我想這跟我們剛剛好幾位委員共同關心的不管是有什麼政府的繳費"},{"start":129.628,"end":158.292,"text":"收費等等因為他等於是他就利用假借政府的名義嘛那那個時候大家看到是說111覺得是說啊就安心了看到111傳來就是可以點開放心了結果不是這麼回事來部長我給你機會時間說明一下到底是我們想得太天真還是把詐騙集團想得太白癡還是我們自己真真正正根本不了解說現在環境多麼兇險以為推出一個東西就可以天衣無縫結果不到一年就被破解"},{"start":158.592,"end":187.858,"text":"來﹗"},{"start":187.918,"end":200.189,"text":"我們看一下所以我們這個新聞出來也快兩三個禮拜了對不對那我們現在統計到底有多少民眾接到這個集團被詐騙所以二級手機目前現在統計多少"},{"start":201.089,"end":202.07,"text":"所以現在到底有多少被詐騙?"},{"start":228.903,"end":245.831,"text":"二級手機目前還有在用的應該不多但是我沒有數字但是沒有數字所以看到現在這樣的一個狀況沒有數字好本席再請教不管是我們速發部有推出的一個通報網或者是現在我們刑事警察局有所謂的這個打詐儀表板對不對詐騙是大幅的成長"},{"start":250.35,"end":278.814,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":278.954,"end":290.903,"text":"以前可能美化這個數字可能讓這個數字感覺相對來講比較有差汁抹粉那現在沒有啊所以才會說我們現在看到說一年一個月有高達百億的一個詐騙"},{"start":293.183,"end":298.625,"text":"主要是針對所謂的這個廣告平台上的這些詐騙那從廣告平台上的詐騙我們開始進行這個一些這個機制包括實名制以後我們目前看到的確在假廣告的詐騙有下降90%以上"},{"start":313.251,"end":317.093,"text":"﹚立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會及立法院第12屆第3會期交通委員會及立法院第4會期交通委員會及"},{"start":339.847,"end":366.196,"text":"市長他絕對不是單一部會的議題我同意因為這個也是過去到現在我們一直要求的就不是要各部會互踢皮球就是說你踢我我踢你到之後這個負責的變成是說就反正是員警的責任也不是嘛所以說我們要從源頭管理源頭阻止源頭把關來讓詐騙的犯罪成本提高高到是說他認為是他根本不合算他就不會想要來詐騙了嘛"},{"start":367.316,"end":395.829,"text":"所以源頭我們這邊看到有在減少所以應該在未來幾個月所以之前我也一直很關心時間也有限但是我一直很關心就所謂的六大平台你們現在廣告實名制的部分現在到底進度如何現在Google跟Line已經落實實名制了從這個月開始那那個像那個Facebook對他答應在從現在開始實施了從高風險他已經答應我們在1月底前會全面實施"},{"start":396.109,"end":414.935,"text":"一月底以前臉書、IG、TREI他們是整個母公司嘛一月底以前可以全部實施廣告的實名制所以說到時候我們看到不管是假冒什麼某某某名人假冒什麼投資社"},{"start":415.555,"end":435.396,"text":"他下面一定都會有實名制一定會有一個帳號投入那所以說如果說他是詐騙的也可以循線順藤摸瓜去找到後面的用戶刊登的廣告那後到時我們有任何的一個詐騙的一個罰則也都可以來做處罰那這一個人他有可能是國內還國外"},{"start":436.833,"end":458.485,"text":"當然就是說他若實名制的時候他這個他必須確認這本人的ID嘛這個當然投放廣告可以在國外但是就是說至少你可以回溯在到這個真正的人那如果是國外的話那當然就是要藉由這個部長那要不要部長這樣子有沒有聽到我覺得還是會有漏洞"},{"start":459.898,"end":486.148,"text":"如果說他現在是用國外的帳號就像之前一直講我們說為什麼詐騙的機房放在的是他機房放在的是東南亞他為什麼放在東南亞就是因為他們可能在東南亞有一些機房然後打電話來台灣來做詐騙然後再由台灣的車手他們等於是犯罪集團不同的分工那如果說你今天這樣子實名制的話你會不會一樣是他可能機房一樣是在東南亞其他國家裡面來做投放廣告"},{"start":486.708,"end":509.966,"text":"有一些廣告像投資金融的廣告那個就要是國內的人才能夠下廣告這是Facebook會跟我們合作的那至於還有一些因為金融詐騙現在在投資上面大概佔了80%所以那是最大源頭先把這個堵住那至於說其他的詐騙廣告我們經過國際刑警的互助將來也希望在這邊能夠很快的去杜絕部長"},{"start":510.686,"end":529.091,"text":"但本席提出來這個問題既然我們都認為可以從源頭管理來減輕增加犯罪成本減輕犯罪的一個樣態跟狀況的話就請你好好的溝通那既然可以金融廣告他一定是要在國內才有辦法投放的話那其他廣告應該也要比就相關詐騙廣告應該比較辦理"},{"start":530.971,"end":530.991,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":554.082,"end":566.771,"text":"對我們來講我們主管機關的責任跟功能就是要告訴他即便是有錢賺你也不能賺因為這個就是非法的錢這個就是詐騙集團的錢這個就是投入之後會增加犯罪風險的錢是吧完全同意"},{"start":567.652,"end":581.41,"text":"好,麻煩再請一月底你剛剛有講到一月底的時候這幾個這個平台的部分會有相關實名制的一個規劃是不是可以給書面資料給本席好不好謝謝謝謝洪孟楷委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1054,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（12時45分）麻煩主席請數位部黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：黃部長，道高一尺，魔真的可以高一丈嗎？數位部一年幾十億元預算，或是一開始的時候，連同前瞻計畫，你們有上百億元的預算，說實在的，真的是要人給人、要錢給錢，因為我們希望能夠真正做到防詐。本席會這樣問，是因為111政府簡訊平台，去年10月唐鳳部長說，明年1月，也就是2024年正式上線，設三關卡堵詐騙，那時候把111簡訊短碼當成救世主，說這個簡訊代碼一出來之後，政府之間的詐騙就不會再發生了，而且有三關卡阻詐騙，還要求公股行庫都加入協調、防詐。結果不到一年的時間耶！真的不到一年，今年1月開始正式上線，到現在10月多、11月，相關新聞就出來了嘛！破獲詐騙集團，政府的簡訊111有假，被詐團破解、2G發送。本席不知道這些機器是否精密，但是看起來，本席覺得他們就像土法煉鋼，這兩台不大的機器，就可以把政府花了那麼多錢，由那麼多數位科技人才的數發部所做出來的111簡訊破解，發送繳費假訊息。","再來，這是新聞台做的連線報導，它發送什麼樣的訊息？這也是剛剛幾位委員共同關心的，包括和政府相關的繳費、收費等等，因為他等於是假借政府的名義嘛！那時候大家看到111簡訊就覺得安心，可以放心點開來看，結果卻不是這麼回事。部長，本席給你機會、時間說明一下，到底是我們想得太天真？還是把詐騙集團想得太白癡？還是我們根本不了解現在的環境多麼兇險，以為推出一個東西就可以天衣無縫，結果不到一年就被破解。"],["黃部長彥男：關於111簡訊平台，我們那個系統並沒有被破解。他們是用假的基地站，假的基地站只對2G手機有效，但是現在2G手機非常少，只要是最近3、5年買的手機，大概都沒有辦法接收2G的訊號，所以如果民眾還有舊的手機，建議把2G的功能關掉就不會看到。因為2G是單方向驗證，3G以上都是雙向驗證，所以假的基地站不會收到訊息。"],["洪委員孟楷：這個新聞出來也快兩、三個禮拜了，對不對？現在到底有多少民眾因為接到這類的訊息被詐騙？"],["黃部長彥男：對。所以目前2G手機……"],["洪委員孟楷：現在的統計數是多少？有沒有統計相關數字？因為你說的理由，本席還是沒有辦法接受。一般的手機可以收到2G的訊號，它也可以使用簡訊發送。"],["黃部長彥男：不行，現在的手機……"],["洪委員孟楷：現在變成是用簡訊發送的方式，你們只是計算簡訊的費用。"],["黃部長彥男：你要連上基地站，它會做雙向認證，3G以上都是這樣，只要是現在新買的手機都沒有2G功能。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以現在到底有多少人被詐騙？知道嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：2G的手機目前還有在用的應該不多。我們沒有數字，2G手機應該……"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有數字？看到現在這樣的狀況，你們還是沒有數字？好，本席再請教，不管是數發部推出的通報網，或者現在刑事警察局所謂的打詐儀表板，詐騙案還是大幅成長，尤其是去年和今年的數字相比，真的是大幅提升，那個數字甚至可以差到3倍、4倍。"],["黃部長彥男：那個是統計的方式不同……"],["洪委員孟楷：是統計的方式不同？但不管怎麼樣，那就代表兩個部分，一個就是過去的統計，是把頭埋在沙子裡面，假裝沒有這個數字，就以為沒有這個詐騙；如果你要說統計的數字不同，就代表現在比較還原真實的狀況，以前可能美化了這個數字，讓這個數字感覺比較有擦脂抹粉，現在沒有，所以我們現在才會看到一個月高達百億的詐騙！"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我們數發部負責的是防詐這部分，主要是針對廣告平台商的這些詐騙；從我們開始對廣告平台商的詐騙進行一些機制，包括實名制的實施之後，假廣告的詐騙的確下降了90%以上。因為詐騙有階段性，比如養套殺，如果在前端不要接觸到詐騙訊息，被養的就會減少，這個效果應該在未來幾個月會出現。也就是說，因為我們在前端做了防詐的工作，我們認為現在民眾接觸到詐騙，確實有減少，而且從數字上，我們看到減少；但是這整個金額的數目，目前看到的統計可能是3個月甚至6個月前……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，它絕對不是單一部會的議題，我同意這是很多部會的議題。"],["黃部長彥男：對，是很多部會的……"],["洪委員孟楷：因為這也是我們從過去到現在一直要求的，並不是要各部會互踢皮球，你踢我、我踢你，到時候要負責的就變成是員警的責任，也不是嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：當然不是。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以，我們要從源頭管理，源頭阻止、源頭把關，來讓詐騙的犯罪成本提高，高到讓他認為根本就不划算，他就不會想要來詐騙，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：對，所以我們看到源頭這邊也在減少，應該在未來幾個月……"],["洪委員孟楷：時間也有限，但我之前一直也很關心，即所謂的六大平台，你們在廣告實名制的部分，到底現在的進度如何？"],["黃部長彥男：Google跟LINE已經從這個月開始落實廣告實名制，Facebook從現在開始實施，從高風險……他已經答應我們在1月底以前會全面實施。"],["洪委員孟楷：1月底以前，臉書、IG、Threads他們是整個母公司……"],["黃部長彥男：他們會全部的……"],["洪委員孟楷：1月底以前可以全部實施廣告的實名制，所以我們到時候看到的，不管是假冒某某某名人，假冒什麼投資社，下面一定都會是實名制？"],["黃部長彥男：一定確實是本人？"],["洪委員孟楷：一定會有一個帳號投入？如果說是詐騙，也可以循線，順藤摸瓜找到後面刊登廣告的用戶。"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：到時我們有任何的詐騙罰則，也都可以來處罰？"],["黃部長彥男：沒錯。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是這一個人，他有可能是國內，還是國外？"],["黃部長彥男：當然他要落實實名制的時候，就必須確認這是本人的ID，投放廣告當然可以在國外，但至少可以再回溯到這個真正的戶主；如果是國外的話，當然就要藉由這個國際的戶主……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，我覺得這樣子還是會有漏洞。如果他現在是用國外的帳號，就像之前我們一直講，為什麼詐騙的機房放在東南亞？就是因為他們可能在東南亞有些機房，然後打電話來臺灣進行詐騙，再由臺灣的車手取錢，等於是犯罪集團有不同分工。如果今天這樣的實名制，他會不會也把機房放在東南亞其他國家，再來這裡投放廣告？"],["黃部長彥男：有一些像投資金融的廣告，就得要國內的人才能夠下廣告，這是Facebook跟我們合作的；因為現在金融詐騙在投資上面大概占了80%，那是最大源頭，先把這個堵住；至於其他詐騙廣告，我們經過國際刑警的互助，將來也希望在這邊能夠很快去杜絕。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，既然我們都認為可以從源頭管理來增加犯罪成本、減輕犯罪的樣態跟狀況，就請你好好的溝通。如果金融廣告一定要在國內才有辦法投放的話，其他相關詐騙廣告也應該比照辦理，把樣態拉出來。其實我們追根究柢，它也會一直進化，沒有錯，但只要進化案件夠多，你就可以收納，你就可以再要求。我覺得重點在於這些大公司，我相信以他們現在的一個數據來講，其實他們一定都了解，只是有錢賺嘛，又沒有人管，就不賺白不賺！可是對我們來講，主管機關的責任跟功能就是要告訴它，即便是有錢賺，你也不能賺，因為這個就是非法的錢，這個就是詐騙集團的錢，這個就是投入之後會增加犯罪風險的錢。是吧？"],["黃部長彥男：完全同意。"],["洪委員孟楷：你剛剛講1月底的時候這幾個平台會有相關實名制的一個規劃，書面資料是不是可以給本席？"],["黃部長彥男：可以。"],["洪委員孟楷：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員，謝謝部長。","接下來請吳春城委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}}