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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:02,029\n我請黃部長好請部長好委員好好部長午安這個辛苦了已經一點多了本席會快速的針對有關於接下來我們要上路的這個數位部打詐司法生肖的部分的有關於實際產業面的問題來跟您做一個探討跟研究那如果說你有答案的話您就回答我如果沒有我希望事後能夠給我用一個報告的方式\n\n2\n00:00:28,194 --> 00:00:34,175\n首先我們需要肯定啦就是針對現在網路的詐騙最重要的當然就是廣告的刊登那麼接下來呢有六大平台被點名會針對廣告委託脫波者的身份要做驗證我們簡單的來講就是所謂的KYC喔那麼這六大平台現在被點名的當中喔這六個當中部長哪些有落地哪些沒有落地\n\n3\n00:01:00,914 --> 00:01:17,832\n但是其實有法律代表人跟有沒有真的在台灣有分公司或辦公室其實成本不一樣他們遵循台灣法規也就不一樣我想部長你應該知道的比如說今天大家都在講的Facebook或Meta\n\n4\n00:01:48,936 --> 00:02:06,535\n這個詳細對詳細我對詳細我不信但是我們剛剛講就是說其實就納管的意思就是說如果他有發現沒有廣告實名制我們就好部長我來告訴你好了因為本席來自於業界我雖然在媒體圈但是媒體圈廣告是非常重要其實平台也是媒體有三大種\n\n5\n00:02:07,316 --> 00:02:27,031\n我希望數位部的同仁如果你們不了解的話也去了解一下第一種叫做平台職客就是我們現在在場的所有人都可以跟平台下廣告我自己跟平台下廣告的時候因為我有開發票的問題我有稅務的問題在場的大家都會被實名制另外一種叫代理商\n\n6\n00:02:44,420 --> 00:02:58,718\n第三種我現在講的第三種就是叫做自助投放自助投放是利用一種網路媒合的方式他用勾選條件的方法這個方法\n\n7\n00:02:59,779 --> 00:03:24,604\n他是透過一個網際網路跨域性的我必須要講部長我們立法雖然利益良善但是第三種是透過網路跨區域的媒合今天他就直接透過網路連線的方式就去登廣告了我必須說現在你看到很多包括不只是這三大平台很多媒體網媒\n\n8\n00:03:26,784 --> 00:03:37,559\n他看起來很像狗皮膏藥每次你去點到裡面你就覺得非常煩要把它點掉的那個廣告他多數就是透過我想的第三種\n\n9\n00:03:39,161 --> 00:04:02,820\n就是所謂的自助投放的方式這種未來現在請問訴發部找到了讓他KYC的方法嗎?我跟你說喔如果你如果沒有把這個方法解決掉或杜絕掉尤其他是跨網域他可能是外國人他不是跳板他本身就從外國進來你根本抓不到這個人喔\n\n10\n00:04:05,686 --> 00:04:30,785\n因為本席看了非常多的質詢或者是討論沒有人特別針對這個來點出來所以為什麼本席今天要站在這裡做質詢我也要提醒你們那我想請問一下現在在部長旁邊的是是那我稍微說明一下跟委員說明那Google林博朗應該是最大的這一個可能委員指的是這一個那我要求Google一定要把他後面下廣告的人也要實名制所以我們當然\n\n11\n00:04:32,326 --> 00:04:49,596\n所以包括我講的第三屆自助投放的方式也可以?這個是Google也答應我們好那麼就是在上路之後可以實施好因為這個部分非常重要那我要如果可以的話那當然是最好另外你們現在講的要定期的平台要發布透明報告那也就是所謂的要有所謂的白名單嘛對不對\n\n12\n00:05:13,635 --> 00:05:33,850\n有沒有一定他們這六個絕對不可能每一個人有擁有詐騙廣告的比例是一樣的那你們現在有一個數字嗎比如說Google、YouTube、Live、Facebook、Instagram跟Ttalk誰最嚴重誰是屬於前段班的學生誰是屬於後段班的學生本席要提問的第二個問題是這六大平台當中有沒有現在一個現有的報告\n\n13\n00:05:37,992 --> 00:06:05,778\n誰在詐騙防範當中打造防範當中最支持我們現在臺灣中華民國的政府誰是屬於特別不不想合作不配合或相應不理的部長報告委員那個其實現在這幾個平臺都有跟我們合作那最配合的當然就是google跟9他們從這個現在均開始落實實名制那最大的目前的就會加廣告的來源是在facebook\n\n14\n00:06:06,098 --> 00:06:34,563\n所以META也答應我們現在已經開始實施對所謂高風險的客戶那他答應我們說在1月底前會全面實施那我們也是在後面督促如果那個我們密切跟他保持所謂的這個交流確定他們有照這個進度在實施所以應該如果照他們所答應我們的那個做法應該是在1月底前全面實施實名制包括剛剛講的三種廣告的太陽他們都會去落實\n\n15\n00:06:35,743 --> 00:06:40,407\n最後本席只想再借用主席一點時間就是董瑞斌以銀行工會的理事長來講說金融打詐所以全面無法實名制的他都要全部的不下廣告這個本席是贊同也認可但是就像本席剛剛講的在這六大平台或幾大平台當中有優等生也有這個好像鞭子不打下來就不動的那麼要有差異化\n\n16\n00:07:02,145 --> 00:07:05,229\n如果願意認真配合我們來實施所謂打詐然後來讓打詐無所遁形的我們可以給予肯定甚至於公佈白名單所以本席要建議就是除了定期的讓他們交報告之外這些不法的、不乖的、不願意配合我們打詐司法的\n\n17\n00:07:21,147 --> 00:07:37,454\n就公佈他甚至於在稅法稅務上面跟財政部金管會或者是NCC交通部一起來合作讓他們能夠被看到他們的態度玩練因為就像我講的登廣告方式三種\n\n18\n00:07:39,194 --> 00:07:52,640\n對嗎?除了這個所謂自主投放的之外還有職客還有代理商我們就希望所有的職客代理商不是只有董瑞兵說我們銀行相關的就是銀行保險證券期貨我們不要投廣告全民都不要投廣告所有企業都不要投廣告這樣他才會怕但是同樣的也不要一竿子打翻全傳人\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t2029\t我請黃部長好請部長好委員好好部長午安這個辛苦了已經一點多了本席會快速的針對有關於接下來我們要上路的這個數位部打詐司法生肖的部分的有關於實際產業面的問題來跟您做一個探討跟研究那如果說你有答案的話您就回答我如果沒有我希望事後能夠給我用一個報告的方式\n28194\t34175\t首先我們需要肯定啦就是針對現在網路的詐騙最重要的當然就是廣告的刊登那麼接下來呢有六大平台被點名會針對廣告委託脫波者的身份要做驗證我們簡單的來講就是所謂的KYC喔那麼這六大平台現在被點名的當中喔這六個當中部長哪些有落地哪些沒有落地\n60914\t77832\t但是其實有法律代表人跟有沒有真的在台灣有分公司或辦公室其實成本不一樣他們遵循台灣法規也就不一樣我想部長你應該知道的比如說今天大家都在講的Facebook或Meta\n78473\t105708\t﹏﹏\n108936\t126535\t這個詳細對詳細我對詳細我不信但是我們剛剛講就是說其實就納管的意思就是說如果他有發現沒有廣告實名制我們就好部長我來告訴你好了因為本席來自於業界我雖然在媒體圈但是媒體圈廣告是非常重要其實平台也是媒體有三大種\n127316\t147031\t我希望數位部的同仁如果你們不了解的話也去了解一下第一種叫做平台職客就是我們現在在場的所有人都可以跟平台下廣告我自己跟平台下廣告的時候因為我有開發票的問題我有稅務的問題在場的大家都會被實名制另外一種叫代理商\n148148\t164189\t﹏﹏\n164420\t178718\t第三種我現在講的第三種就是叫做自助投放自助投放是利用一種網路媒合的方式他用勾選條件的方法這個方法\n179779\t204604\t他是透過一個網際網路跨域性的我必須要講部長我們立法雖然利益良善但是第三種是透過網路跨區域的媒合今天他就直接透過網路連線的方式就去登廣告了我必須說現在你看到很多包括不只是這三大平台很多媒體網媒\n206784\t217559\t他看起來很像狗皮膏藥每次你去點到裡面你就覺得非常煩要把它點掉的那個廣告他多數就是透過我想的第三種\n219161\t242820\t就是所謂的自助投放的方式這種未來現在請問訴發部找到了讓他KYC的方法嗎?我跟你說喔如果你如果沒有把這個方法解決掉或杜絕掉尤其他是跨網域他可能是外國人他不是跳板他本身就從外國進來你根本抓不到這個人喔\n245686\t270785\t因為本席看了非常多的質詢或者是討論沒有人特別針對這個來點出來所以為什麼本席今天要站在這裡做質詢我也要提醒你們那我想請問一下現在在部長旁邊的是是那我稍微說明一下跟委員說明那Google林博朗應該是最大的這一個可能委員指的是這一個那我要求Google一定要把他後面下廣告的人也要實名制所以我們當然\n272326\t289596\t所以包括我講的第三屆自助投放的方式也可以?這個是Google也答應我們好 那麼就是在上路之後可以實施好 因為這個部分非常重要那我要如果可以的話那當然是最好另外你們現在講的要定期的平台要發布透明報告那也就是所謂的要有所謂的白名單嘛 對不對\n295520\t312961\t﹏﹏\n313635\t333850\t有沒有一定他們這六個絕對不可能每一個人有擁有詐騙廣告的比例是一樣的那你們現在有一個數字嗎比如說Google、YouTube、Live、Facebook、Instagram跟Ttalk誰最嚴重誰是屬於前段班的學生誰是屬於後段班的學生本席要提問的第二個問題是這六大平台當中有沒有現在一個現有的報告\n337992\t365778\t誰在詐騙防範當中打造防範當中最支持我們現在臺灣中華民國的政府誰是屬於特別不不想合作不配合或相應不理的部長報告委員那個其實現在這幾個平臺都有跟我們合作那最配合的當然就是google跟9他們從這個現在均開始落實實名制那最大的目前的就會加廣告的來源是在facebook\n366098\t394563\t所以META也答應我們現在已經開始實施對所謂高風險的客戶那他答應我們說在1月底前會全面實施那我們也是在後面督促如果那個我們密切跟他保持所謂的這個交流確定他們有照這個進度在實施所以應該如果照他們所答應我們的那個做法應該是在1月底前全面實施實名制包括剛剛講的三種廣告的太陽他們都會去落實\n395743\t400407\t最後本席只想再借用主席一點時間就是董瑞斌以銀行工會的理事長來講說金融打詐所以全面無法實名制的他都要全部的不下廣告這個本席是贊同也認可但是就像本席剛剛講的在這六大平台或幾大平台當中有優等生也有這個好像鞭子不打下來就不動的那麼要有差異化\n422145\t425229\t如果願意認真配合我們來實施所謂打詐然後來讓打詐無所遁形的我們可以給予肯定甚至於公佈白名單所以本席要建議就是除了定期的讓他們交報告之外這些不法的、不乖的、不願意配合我們打詐司法的\n441147\t457454\t就公佈他甚至於在稅法稅務上面跟財政部金管會或者是NCC交通部一起來合作讓他們能夠被看到他們的態度玩練因為就像我講的登廣告方式三種\n459194\t472640\t對嗎?除了這個所謂自主投放的之外還有職客還有代理商我們就希望所有的職客代理商不是只有董瑞兵說我們銀行相關的就是銀行保險證券期貨我們不要投廣告全民都不要投廣告所有企業都不要投廣告這樣他才會怕但是同樣的也不要一竿子打翻全傳人\n480981\t500350\t﹗\n","txt":"我請黃部長好請部長好委員好好部長午安這個辛苦了已經一點多了本席會快速的針對有關於接下來我們要上路的這個數位部打詐司法生肖的部分的有關於實際產業面的問題來跟您做一個探討跟研究那如果說你有答案的話您就回答我如果沒有我希望事後能夠給我用一個報告的方式\n首先我們需要肯定啦就是針對現在網路的詐騙最重要的當然就是廣告的刊登那麼接下來呢有六大平台被點名會針對廣告委託脫波者的身份要做驗證我們簡單的來講就是所謂的KYC喔那麼這六大平台現在被點名的當中喔這六個當中部長哪些有落地哪些沒有落地\n但是其實有法律代表人跟有沒有真的在台灣有分公司或辦公室其實成本不一樣他們遵循台灣法規也就不一樣我想部長你應該知道的比如說今天大家都在講的Facebook或Meta\n﹏﹏\n這個詳細對詳細我對詳細我不信但是我們剛剛講就是說其實就納管的意思就是說如果他有發現沒有廣告實名制我們就好部長我來告訴你好了因為本席來自於業界我雖然在媒體圈但是媒體圈廣告是非常重要其實平台也是媒體有三大種\n我希望數位部的同仁如果你們不了解的話也去了解一下第一種叫做平台職客就是我們現在在場的所有人都可以跟平台下廣告我自己跟平台下廣告的時候因為我有開發票的問題我有稅務的問題在場的大家都會被實名制另外一種叫代理商\n﹏﹏\n第三種我現在講的第三種就是叫做自助投放自助投放是利用一種網路媒合的方式他用勾選條件的方法這個方法\n他是透過一個網際網路跨域性的我必須要講部長我們立法雖然利益良善但是第三種是透過網路跨區域的媒合今天他就直接透過網路連線的方式就去登廣告了我必須說現在你看到很多包括不只是這三大平台很多媒體網媒\n他看起來很像狗皮膏藥每次你去點到裡面你就覺得非常煩要把它點掉的那個廣告他多數就是透過我想的第三種\n就是所謂的自助投放的方式這種未來現在請問訴發部找到了讓他KYC的方法嗎?我跟你說喔如果你如果沒有把這個方法解決掉或杜絕掉尤其他是跨網域他可能是外國人他不是跳板他本身就從外國進來你根本抓不到這個人喔\n因為本席看了非常多的質詢或者是討論沒有人特別針對這個來點出來所以為什麼本席今天要站在這裡做質詢我也要提醒你們那我想請問一下現在在部長旁邊的是是那我稍微說明一下跟委員說明那Google林博朗應該是最大的這一個可能委員指的是這一個那我要求Google一定要把他後面下廣告的人也要實名制所以我們當然\n所以包括我講的第三屆自助投放的方式也可以?這個是Google也答應我們好 那麼就是在上路之後可以實施好 因為這個部分非常重要那我要如果可以的話那當然是最好另外你們現在講的要定期的平台要發布透明報告那也就是所謂的要有所謂的白名單嘛 對不對\n﹏﹏\n有沒有一定他們這六個絕對不可能每一個人有擁有詐騙廣告的比例是一樣的那你們現在有一個數字嗎比如說Google、YouTube、Live、Facebook、Instagram跟Ttalk誰最嚴重誰是屬於前段班的學生誰是屬於後段班的學生本席要提問的第二個問題是這六大平台當中有沒有現在一個現有的報告\n誰在詐騙防範當中打造防範當中最支持我們現在臺灣中華民國的政府誰是屬於特別不不想合作不配合或相應不理的部長報告委員那個其實現在這幾個平臺都有跟我們合作那最配合的當然就是google跟9他們從這個現在均開始落實實名制那最大的目前的就會加廣告的來源是在facebook\n所以META也答應我們現在已經開始實施對所謂高風險的客戶那他答應我們說在1月底前會全面實施那我們也是在後面督促如果那個我們密切跟他保持所謂的這個交流確定他們有照這個進度在實施所以應該如果照他們所答應我們的那個做法應該是在1月底前全面實施實名制包括剛剛講的三種廣告的太陽他們都會去落實\n最後本席只想再借用主席一點時間就是董瑞斌以銀行工會的理事長來講說金融打詐所以全面無法實名制的他都要全部的不下廣告這個本席是贊同也認可但是就像本席剛剛講的在這六大平台或幾大平台當中有優等生也有這個好像鞭子不打下來就不動的那麼要有差異化\n如果願意認真配合我們來實施所謂打詐然後來讓打詐無所遁形的我們可以給予肯定甚至於公佈白名單所以本席要建議就是除了定期的讓他們交報告之外這些不法的、不乖的、不願意配合我們打詐司法的\n就公佈他甚至於在稅法稅務上面跟財政部金管會或者是NCC交通部一起來合作讓他們能夠被看到他們的態度玩練因為就像我講的登廣告方式三種\n對嗎?除了這個所謂自主投放的之外還有職客還有代理商我們就希望所有的職客代理商不是只有董瑞兵說我們銀行相關的就是銀行保險證券期貨我們不要投廣告全民都不要投廣告所有企業都不要投廣告這樣他才會怕但是同樣的也不要一竿子打翻全傳人\n﹗\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:02.029\n我請黃部長好請部長好委員好好部長午安這個辛苦了已經一點多了本席會快速的針對有關於接下來我們要上路的這個數位部打詐司法生肖的部分的有關於實際產業面的問題來跟您做一個探討跟研究那如果說你有答案的話您就回答我如果沒有我希望事後能夠給我用一個報告的方式\n\n00:28.194 --> 00:34.175\n首先我們需要肯定啦就是針對現在網路的詐騙最重要的當然就是廣告的刊登那麼接下來呢有六大平台被點名會針對廣告委託脫波者的身份要做驗證我們簡單的來講就是所謂的KYC喔那麼這六大平台現在被點名的當中喔這六個當中部長哪些有落地哪些沒有落地\n\n01:00.914 --> 01:17.832\n但是其實有法律代表人跟有沒有真的在台灣有分公司或辦公室其實成本不一樣他們遵循台灣法規也就不一樣我想部長你應該知道的比如說今天大家都在講的Facebook或Meta\n\n01:48.936 --> 02:06.535\n這個詳細對詳細我對詳細我不信但是我們剛剛講就是說其實就納管的意思就是說如果他有發現沒有廣告實名制我們就好部長我來告訴你好了因為本席來自於業界我雖然在媒體圈但是媒體圈廣告是非常重要其實平台也是媒體有三大種\n\n02:07.316 --> 02:27.031\n我希望數位部的同仁如果你們不了解的話也去了解一下第一種叫做平台職客就是我們現在在場的所有人都可以跟平台下廣告我自己跟平台下廣告的時候因為我有開發票的問題我有稅務的問題在場的大家都會被實名制另外一種叫代理商\n\n02:44.420 --> 02:58.718\n第三種我現在講的第三種就是叫做自助投放自助投放是利用一種網路媒合的方式他用勾選條件的方法這個方法\n\n02:59.779 --> 03:24.604\n他是透過一個網際網路跨域性的我必須要講部長我們立法雖然利益良善但是第三種是透過網路跨區域的媒合今天他就直接透過網路連線的方式就去登廣告了我必須說現在你看到很多包括不只是這三大平台很多媒體網媒\n\n03:26.784 --> 03:37.559\n他看起來很像狗皮膏藥每次你去點到裡面你就覺得非常煩要把它點掉的那個廣告他多數就是透過我想的第三種\n\n03:39.161 --> 04:02.820\n就是所謂的自助投放的方式這種未來現在請問訴發部找到了讓他KYC的方法嗎?我跟你說喔如果你如果沒有把這個方法解決掉或杜絕掉尤其他是跨網域他可能是外國人他不是跳板他本身就從外國進來你根本抓不到這個人喔\n\n04:05.686 --> 04:30.785\n因為本席看了非常多的質詢或者是討論沒有人特別針對這個來點出來所以為什麼本席今天要站在這裡做質詢我也要提醒你們那我想請問一下現在在部長旁邊的是是那我稍微說明一下跟委員說明那Google林博朗應該是最大的這一個可能委員指的是這一個那我要求Google一定要把他後面下廣告的人也要實名制所以我們當然\n\n04:32.326 --> 04:49.596\n所以包括我講的第三屆自助投放的方式也可以?這個是Google也答應我們好那麼就是在上路之後可以實施好因為這個部分非常重要那我要如果可以的話那當然是最好另外你們現在講的要定期的平台要發布透明報告那也就是所謂的要有所謂的白名單嘛對不對\n\n05:13.635 --> 05:33.850\n有沒有一定他們這六個絕對不可能每一個人有擁有詐騙廣告的比例是一樣的那你們現在有一個數字嗎比如說Google、YouTube、Live、Facebook、Instagram跟Ttalk誰最嚴重誰是屬於前段班的學生誰是屬於後段班的學生本席要提問的第二個問題是這六大平台當中有沒有現在一個現有的報告\n\n05:37.992 --> 06:05.778\n誰在詐騙防範當中打造防範當中最支持我們現在臺灣中華民國的政府誰是屬於特別不不想合作不配合或相應不理的部長報告委員那個其實現在這幾個平臺都有跟我們合作那最配合的當然就是google跟9他們從這個現在均開始落實實名制那最大的目前的就會加廣告的來源是在facebook\n\n06:06.098 --> 06:34.563\n所以META也答應我們現在已經開始實施對所謂高風險的客戶那他答應我們說在1月底前會全面實施那我們也是在後面督促如果那個我們密切跟他保持所謂的這個交流確定他們有照這個進度在實施所以應該如果照他們所答應我們的那個做法應該是在1月底前全面實施實名制包括剛剛講的三種廣告的太陽他們都會去落實\n\n06:35.743 --> 06:40.407\n最後本席只想再借用主席一點時間就是董瑞斌以銀行工會的理事長來講說金融打詐所以全面無法實名制的他都要全部的不下廣告這個本席是贊同也認可但是就像本席剛剛講的在這六大平台或幾大平台當中有優等生也有這個好像鞭子不打下來就不動的那麼要有差異化\n\n07:02.145 --> 07:05.229\n如果願意認真配合我們來實施所謂打詐然後來讓打詐無所遁形的我們可以給予肯定甚至於公佈白名單所以本席要建議就是除了定期的讓他們交報告之外這些不法的、不乖的、不願意配合我們打詐司法的\n\n07:21.147 --> 07:37.454\n就公佈他甚至於在稅法稅務上面跟財政部金管會或者是NCC交通部一起來合作讓他們能夠被看到他們的態度玩練因為就像我講的登廣告方式三種\n\n07:39.194 --> 07:52.640\n對嗎?除了這個所謂自主投放的之外還有職客還有代理商我們就希望所有的職客代理商不是只有董瑞兵說我們銀行相關的就是銀行保險證券期貨我們不要投廣告全民都不要投廣告所有企業都不要投廣告這樣他才會怕但是同樣的也不要一竿子打翻全傳人\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":2.029,"text":"我請黃部長好請部長好委員好好部長午安這個辛苦了已經一點多了本席會快速的針對有關於接下來我們要上路的這個數位部打詐司法生肖的部分的有關於實際產業面的問題來跟您做一個探討跟研究那如果說你有答案的話您就回答我如果沒有我希望事後能夠給我用一個報告的方式"},{"start":28.194,"end":34.175,"text":"首先我們需要肯定啦就是針對現在網路的詐騙最重要的當然就是廣告的刊登那麼接下來呢有六大平台被點名會針對廣告委託脫波者的身份要做驗證我們簡單的來講就是所謂的KYC喔那麼這六大平台現在被點名的當中喔這六個當中部長哪些有落地哪些沒有落地"},{"start":60.914,"end":77.832,"text":"但是其實有法律代表人跟有沒有真的在台灣有分公司或辦公室其實成本不一樣他們遵循台灣法規也就不一樣我想部長你應該知道的比如說今天大家都在講的Facebook或Meta"},{"start":78.473,"end":105.708,"text":" 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﹏﹏"},{"start":164.42,"end":178.718,"text":"第三種我現在講的第三種就是叫做自助投放自助投放是利用一種網路媒合的方式他用勾選條件的方法這個方法"},{"start":179.779,"end":204.604,"text":"他是透過一個網際網路跨域性的我必須要講部長我們立法雖然利益良善但是第三種是透過網路跨區域的媒合今天他就直接透過網路連線的方式就去登廣告了我必須說現在你看到很多包括不只是這三大平台很多媒體網媒"},{"start":206.784,"end":217.559,"text":"他看起來很像狗皮膏藥每次你去點到裡面你就覺得非常煩要把它點掉的那個廣告他多數就是透過我想的第三種"},{"start":219.161,"end":242.82,"text":"就是所謂的自助投放的方式這種未來現在請問訴發部找到了讓他KYC的方法嗎?我跟你說喔如果你如果沒有把這個方法解決掉或杜絕掉尤其他是跨網域他可能是外國人他不是跳板他本身就從外國進來你根本抓不到這個人喔"},{"start":245.686,"end":270.785,"text":"因為本席看了非常多的質詢或者是討論沒有人特別針對這個來點出來所以為什麼本席今天要站在這裡做質詢我也要提醒你們那我想請問一下現在在部長旁邊的是是那我稍微說明一下跟委員說明那Google林博朗應該是最大的這一個可能委員指的是這一個那我要求Google一定要把他後面下廣告的人也要實名制所以我們當然"},{"start":272.326,"end":289.596,"text":"所以包括我講的第三屆自助投放的方式也可以?這個是Google也答應我們好 那麼就是在上路之後可以實施好 因為這個部分非常重要那我要如果可以的話那當然是最好另外你們現在講的要定期的平台要發布透明報告那也就是所謂的要有所謂的白名單嘛 對不對"},{"start":295.52,"end":312.961,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":313.635,"end":333.85,"text":"有沒有一定他們這六個絕對不可能每一個人有擁有詐騙廣告的比例是一樣的那你們現在有一個數字嗎比如說Google、YouTube、Live、Facebook、Instagram跟Ttalk誰最嚴重誰是屬於前段班的學生誰是屬於後段班的學生本席要提問的第二個問題是這六大平台當中有沒有現在一個現有的報告"},{"start":337.992,"end":365.778,"text":"誰在詐騙防範當中打造防範當中最支持我們現在臺灣中華民國的政府誰是屬於特別不不想合作不配合或相應不理的部長報告委員那個其實現在這幾個平臺都有跟我們合作那最配合的當然就是google跟9他們從這個現在均開始落實實名制那最大的目前的就會加廣告的來源是在facebook"},{"start":366.098,"end":394.563,"text":"所以META也答應我們現在已經開始實施對所謂高風險的客戶那他答應我們說在1月底前會全面實施那我們也是在後面督促如果那個我們密切跟他保持所謂的這個交流確定他們有照這個進度在實施所以應該如果照他們所答應我們的那個做法應該是在1月底前全面實施實名制包括剛剛講的三種廣告的太陽他們都會去落實"},{"start":395.743,"end":400.407,"text":"最後本席只想再借用主席一點時間就是董瑞斌以銀行工會的理事長來講說金融打詐所以全面無法實名制的他都要全部的不下廣告這個本席是贊同也認可但是就像本席剛剛講的在這六大平台或幾大平台當中有優等生也有這個好像鞭子不打下來就不動的那麼要有差異化"},{"start":422.145,"end":425.229,"text":"如果願意認真配合我們來實施所謂打詐然後來讓打詐無所遁形的我們可以給予肯定甚至於公佈白名單所以本席要建議就是除了定期的讓他們交報告之外這些不法的、不乖的、不願意配合我們打詐司法的"},{"start":441.147,"end":457.454,"text":"就公佈他甚至於在稅法稅務上面跟財政部金管會或者是NCC交通部一起來合作讓他們能夠被看到他們的態度玩練因為就像我講的登廣告方式三種"},{"start":459.194,"end":472.64,"text":"對嗎?除了這個所謂自主投放的之外還有職客還有代理商我們就希望所有的職客代理商不是只有董瑞兵說我們銀行相關的就是銀行保險證券期貨我們不要投廣告全民都不要投廣告所有企業都不要投廣告這樣他才會怕但是同樣的也不要一竿子打翻全傳人"},{"start":480.981,"end":500.35,"text":"﹗"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1241,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（13時15分）謝謝主席。主席，有請黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["林委員楚茵：部長午安。辛苦了！已經一點多了，本席會快速的針對有關於接下來我們要上路的數位部打詐四法生效部分，有關於實際產業面的問題來跟您做一個探討跟研究，如果你有答案的話您就回答我；如果沒有，我希望事後能夠給我一個報告。首先我必需要肯定，就是針對現在網路的詐騙最重要的當然就是廣告的刊登，那麼接下來有六大平台被點名，會針對廣告委託託播者的身分驗證，我們簡單講就是所謂的KYC，那麼這六大平台現在被點名的這六個當中，部長，哪些有落地、哪些沒有落地？"],["黃部長彥男：目前都有申請所謂法律代表人，都已經申請了。"],["林委員楚茵：但是有法律代表人跟有沒有真的在臺灣有分公司或辦公室其實成本不一樣，他們遵循的臺灣法規也就不一樣，我想部長應該知道的。比如今天大家都在講的Facebook或Meta就是有一個所謂代表人，但其實事實上它沒有分公司在這裡，它也只接廣告業務；但是比如像LINE，它其實是有分公司在這裡，他們遵循國內的法規就不一樣。那麼接下來我們打詐四法要針對廣告來做KYC的時候，部長，您知不知道其實下廣告的方法不一樣，有哪幾種方法，你知道嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：這個詳細我不清楚，但是我們剛剛講，其實納管的意思就是如果有發現它沒有廣告實名制，我們就……"],["林委員楚茵：好，部長，我來告訴你好了，因為本席來自於業界，我雖然在媒體圈，但是媒體圈廣告非常重要，其實平台也是媒體，有三大種，我希望數位部的同仁如果你們不了解的話也去了解一下，第一種叫做平台直客，就是我們現在在場的所有人都可以跟平台下廣告，我自己跟平台下廣告的時候因為我有開發票的問題、我有稅務的問題，在場的大家都會被實名制；另外一種叫代理商，所有的平台都一樣，不論是電視、報紙、電視台、甚至於平台都一樣，同樣的透過代理商，代理商今天怕收不到錢，它也一定會實名制，為什麼？不然我現在幫你上完廣告你跑掉，那我跟誰收錢？第三種，我現在要講的第三種就是叫做自助投放，自助投放是利用一種網路媒合的方式，他用勾選條件的方法，這個方法是透過一個網際網路跨域性的。我必需要講，部長，我們立法雖然立意良善，但是第三種是透過網路跨區域的媒合，今天他就直接透過網路連線的方式去登廣告了，我必須說現在你看到很多包括不只是這三大平台，很多媒體、網媒看起來很像狗皮膏藥，每次你去點到裡面你就覺得非常煩，要把它點掉的那個廣告多數就是透過我講的第三種，所謂的自助投放的方式，這種請問數發部現在找到未來讓他KYC的方法嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：像Google就……"],["林委員楚茵：我跟你說喔，如果你沒有把這個方法解決掉或杜絕掉，尤其他是跨網域，他可能是外國人，他不是跳板，他本身就從外國進來，你根本抓不到這個人喔！因為本席看了非常多的質詢或者是討論，沒有人特別針對這個來點出來，所以為什麼本席今天要站在這裡做質詢？我也要提醒你們。我想請問一下，現在在部長旁邊的是？"],["林代理署長俊秀：我稍微跟委員說明一下，Google聯播網應該是最大的，可能委員指的是這一個。"],["林委員楚茵：對。"],["林代理署長俊秀：我們要求Google一定要把後面下廣告的人實名制，所以我們當然……"],["林委員楚茵：所以包括我講的第三點，自助投放的方式也可以？"],["林代理署長俊秀：是，Google也答應我們。"],["林委員楚茵：好，就是在上路之後可以實施？"],["林代理署長俊秀：對。"],["林委員楚茵：因為這個部分非常重要，如果可以的話當然是最好！另外，你們現在講的要求平臺定期發布透明度報告，也就是要有所謂的白名單，對不對？現在我們所點名的六大平臺當中，我必須說每一個狀況不一樣，你們手上針對掌握他們在被詐騙廣告投放的比率，包括內容有沒有一定，他們這六個絕對不可能每一個擁有詐騙廣告的比例是一樣的，那你們現在有一個數字嗎？比如說，Google、YouTube、LINE、Facebook、Instagram跟TikTok，誰最嚴重？誰是屬於前段班的學生？誰是屬於後段班的學生？本席要提問的第二個問題是，這六大平臺當中有沒有一個現有的報告，誰在詐騙防範當中、打詐防範當中最支持我們現在臺灣中華民國的政府？誰是屬於特別不想合作、不配合，或相應不理的？部長。"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，其實現在這幾個平臺都有跟我們合作，最配合當然就是Google跟LINE，他們現在已經開始落實實名制，目前最大的假廣告來源是在Facebook。"],["林委員楚茵：是。"],["黃部長彥男：Meta也答應我們，現在已經開始實施針對所謂高風險的客戶，它答應我們在1月底以前會全面實施，我們也在後面督促，我們密切跟他們保持交流，確定他們有照這個進度在實施，如果照他們所答應我們的作法，應該是在1月底以前全面實施實名制，包括剛剛講的三種廣告的態樣，他們都會去落實。"],["林委員楚茵：好，最後本席想再借用主席一點時間，就是董瑞斌以銀行公會理事長說金融打詐，所以全面無法實名制的都要全部不下廣告。"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["林委員楚茵：這個本席是贊同，也認可，但是就像本席剛剛講的，在這六大平臺或幾大平臺當中，有優等生，也有好像鞭子不打下來就不動的，所以要有差異化，如果願意認真配合我們實施打詐，讓詐騙無所遁形的，我們可以給予肯定，甚至於公布白名單。所以本席要建議，除了定期讓他們交報告之外，這些不法的、不乖的、不願意配合我們打詐四法的，就公布它，甚至於在稅法、稅務上面，跟財政部、金管會或者是NCC、交通部一起合作，讓他們能夠被看到他們的態度頑劣，因為就像我講的，登廣告方式有三種，對不對？除了自主投放的之外，還有直客，還有代理商，我們就希望所有直客、代理商，不是只有董瑞斌說相關的銀行、保險、證券、期貨不要投廣告，全民都不要投廣告，所有企業都不要投廣告，這樣它才會怕！但是同樣的，也不要一竿子打翻全船人，願意配合的、優秀的、有改善的，就把它公布出來，黑名單、白名單一併公布，好嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝委員。"],["林委員楚茵：本席關心的有關自主投放式廣告怎麼樣納管，是不是會後也可以給我一個比較詳細的說明，好嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝。"],["林委員楚茵：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林楚茵委員，謝謝部長。","接下來請劉建國委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}}