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{\"word\": \"蘇\"}, {\"word\": \"華\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 682.705, \"end\": 683.206, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 683.206, \"end\": 683.346, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 683.346, \"end\": 683.527, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 683.527, \"end\": 683.967, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 683.967, \"end\": 684.107, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 684.107, \"end\": 684.288, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 684.288, \"end\": 684.668, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 684.668, \"end\": 684.769, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 684.769, \"end\": 684.909, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"思\", \"start\": 684.909, \"end\": 685.129, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 685.129, \"end\": 685.229, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 685.229, \"end\": 685.37, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 685.37, \"end\": 685.39, \"score\": 0.909}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,604 --> 00:00:20,202\n謝謝主席有請黃部長好請部長部長今天來交通委員會是希望能夠拜託你一件事情就是有關這個目前公部門內爆發的霸凌的問題部長有沒有掌握到這次勞動部勞花署北分署的這個事件\n\n2\n00:00:22,648 --> 00:00:42,341\n我是第一個提出了解到這個北分署人流異常的委員然後包含那個老挖署他的貴署也是一樣的異常也是在質詢的時候我問出來的那你看這個北分署長就任的時候不到兩年時間他那個單位就好像大爛一樣\n\n3\n00:00:43,778 --> 00:01:07,116\n一次走了81一位如果連親生那一位他也是有提出申請喔total是82位這是非常非常離譜的一件事情嘛那我有面對這個人力的流動異常的狀態在11月20號的時候在衛生委員會我有特別來要求執行這個權需部跟人事總處然後是我要建置一套這個預警的機制啦那當時的時候這個\n\n4\n00:01:09,369 --> 00:01:26,084\n這一個權敘不是這麼打呼我他說這個工人離職調集工人員調動資料分別在這兩個單位在做處理但是一直沒有辦法對接出來對接起來那可能要等到明年那我現在私底下了解他可能連明年都沒辦法對接了\n\n5\n00:01:27,197 --> 00:01:44,103\n這個台灣是個數位資訊進步的國家怎麼會這個離子跟調動的相關資料要對接起來會這麼困難所以我是希望可以請教部長你對這個事情怎麼看法那你這個單位你們貴部能不能予以協助\n\n6\n00:01:45,413 --> 00:01:47,354\n在10月11日調查結果出來馬上立刻做處置\n\n7\n00:02:00,518 --> 00:02:02,999\n關於資訊：包括心智：人員調動的比例：內部有自己的統計：其他部會提供數位化的資訊嗎?\n\n8\n00:02:20,373 --> 00:02:39,785\n沒有啦,我的問題很清楚嘛,八點的事情我都還沒有問你,你就直接講了齁,等一下我們就好好討論啦齁。我是提,我是說請部長,我是今天來特別拜託你,這個人事總處跟這個全庶部,這個離職跟調職的相關資料對接起來,他們說可能到明年才會完成。\n\n9\n00:02:40,225 --> 00:03:08,436\n我私下了解說可能連明年都對接不起來怎麼接都接不上站在數位部的角度立場跟你們專業能不能予以協助啦我的問題就這樣而已啊那個就是就是堅持這兩個單位的這系統的界界這個我們請那個我們的那個數位政府能不能予以協助啦就這樣而已可以可以嘛可以就好可以就好因為你們如果願意協助應該就不用等到明年甚至要有五期嘛一直對接不上嘛但是這個不是這個\n\n10\n00:03:09,616 --> 00:03:09,636\n委員８\n\n11\n00:03:29,989 --> 00:03:53,969\n拜託部長,這樣的技術目前應該是可以辦到嘛,對不對?請教部長,可以嘛。好,那但是如果這個單位的所長階層對人有異常完全不在乎啦,那甚至以為自己單位的人員都是被挖角,還是要照顧家庭,或者是緩鄉,才導致自己單位的人力一直流失,那這個恐怕不是AI的可以去處理的嘛,就沒辦法嘛對不對?如果這個單位的階層\n\n12\n00:03:56,775 --> 00:04:19,667\n所長接著是認為這樣這個不是AI可以去處理嗎?對吧?對,但是沒有說這個是要靠訪談或怎麼樣去人跟人的關係我知道我的題目都很單純嘛如果是這樣AI是沒辦法幫助嘛簡單講就這樣因為這個所長本身自己有主觀上的認定了嘛那剛剛你特別講到11月21號我本來沒要問你說我有跟你講一些比較有的對不對\n\n13\n00:04:22,288 --> 00:04:45,893\n知安署內部有情緒管控的問題轉觀存在。貼文講的這麼清楚,部長可以看嘛。長官脾氣暴躁,經常罵人,罵到牆壁都快倒下的感覺。部長有掌握嗎?有,我們現在在調查中。好,我這邊也有同樣接到署名一群知安署的受迫員工借來澄清信,繼續血淚嘛。然後控制知安署的管理不當,直接點名知安署署長跟副署長標罵下屬言語霸凌嘛。\n\n14\n00:04:48,612 --> 00:04:54,952\n我是接到這個這一張我也有交給部長是嗎?部長等一下你看你怎麼答覆的\n\n15\n00:04:55,902 --> 00:05:19,031\n照理講這個新的一個單位基本上就像一個新單位大家都會想要轉掉進去的一個單位但是怎麼會現在都轉出來然後資安署是111年8月27日成立預算有16512年是146113年剩下129或許146扣129少了17個大家覺得不怎麼樣但是成立到現在總移植人數是42人平調7人降調14人辭職21人部長你覺得這嚴不嚴重這個單位有沒有出問題\n\n16\n00:05:24,830 --> 00:05:27,672\n本屬人員調子原因多屬外界挖角,直來發展選擇反鄉家庭照顧或經濟因素或等考量。\n\n17\n00:05:46,503 --> 00:06:08,108\n而調離現實至本署流動率偏高另又因這一個資産高階人才藍密且本署經用人員過程嚴謹需通過筆試面試篩選呼應本署組織業務特性公人員及聘用人員經用需辦理查核查核通過使得經用相關人員亦受嚴格儘管這一個限制\n\n18\n00:06:08,979 --> 00:06:30,404\n至常遇到對外公告、徵裁、無人報名、人員資格不符等狀況未來本署將持續積極規劃辦理各類人員徵選、養成與留財、作業、自立、補食、缺額。就這麼難找人啊藍密的治安高階人才正用過程嚴謹的你們還可以在兩年內讓他跑到42位誰要負責?請回答我誰該負責?\n\n19\n00:06:35,609 --> 00:06:59,044\n不要再給我講到別的題目我時間到了誰該負責啊為什麼有這樣的答覆我給你這一張我給你這一張一群血液員工的控訴你給我答覆這樣的還用正式公文這案是答覆的嗎還是部長你授意他們這樣答覆我的跟委員報告一下我跟你們沒完沒了啊沒有沒有謝謝委員真的非常謝謝委員這個誰要求這樣答覆的\n\n20\n00:07:03,335 --> 00:07:24,785\n誰做成決議做這樣的公文書打呼到我的辦公室我給你這一張你給我這一個誰決定的啊你打呼我誰決定我沒有問你其他問題誰決定的報告委員您給的這個公文書您給的公文書因為投訴的對象我不是給你公文書我是給你陳情書你是給我公文書誰給的誰做決定\n\n21\n00:07:28,559 --> 00:07:36,363\n報告委員我們非常想要留所有的員工所以每一個員工去哪裡我們都會追蹤請答覆我誰給我這一張公文書我給你員工的陳情信你給我這一張公文書誰給我的這一張回我的公文信公文書誰回的這個內容\n\n22\n00:08:11,367 --> 00:08:24,782\n對,責任使的回覆為什麼我給我是交代國會聯絡人給你部長啊你為什麼還交代責任使的署長來做這樣的官腔官室的回覆然後自己在那邊打臉你就這麼難找人啊這麼嚴謹啊你說兩天用招40幾個\n\n23\n00:08:27,685 --> 00:08:49,234\n立法院第11屆第12會期交通委員會提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件閱讀委員我們現在在調查中這個回覆是我當然知道你在調查中嘛那院長交代一星期啊這個是一二一發生的事情已經過了一個禮拜了快兩個禮拜了啊那你怎麼還打呼我這種東西我沒有要求你給我調查報告跑了這麼多人兩年新的單位兩單位來找40幾個有嚴重嗎\n\n24\n00:08:54,298 --> 00:09:18,872\n有沒有嚴重嗎?你們這麼嚴謹的在招募人才,這麼短的單位讓這麼多人,這各位替本話的捏。連替本話都放棄,他以為是辭職捏。不是只有轉調、平調、降調而已捏。跟委員報告,那個投訴的部分我們有列專案小組的那個調查,以上報告。董事長,你覺得他們給我回這樣有道理?\n\n25\n00:09:21,890 --> 00:09:23,753\n你是覺得我覺得你給我回的不夠具體所以我才今天來這邊質詢\n\n26\n00:09:37,642 --> 00:09:55,911\n那我們就讓他公開讓大家很清楚的你怎麼回我嗎部裡面現在就是剛剛講說一調查報告出來馬上會做處理那現在就是我們就是這個已經起動了針對員工霸凌是一件事情嘛我是請教部長說這麼短的時間內資安署這麼嚴謹在招募人才對不對這你們寫的嘛那怎麼這麼短的時間讓42位的同仁離開你們的單位誰該負責嘛霸凌是另外一件事情嘛\n\n27\n00:10:05,694 --> 00:10:07,055\n所以就叫做外界挖角吧\n\n28\n00:10:30,987 --> 00:10:53,508\n但是委員我有詳細的資料就是每一個人去哪裡這個有詳細的資料所以可以經得起檢視就是我們真的很想留員工所以我們其實都會問員工說那你現在你要去哪裡然後你的薪水是多少那有很多員工告訴我說他薪水變多而且主席給我很長的時間了你如果這麼講我實在也也不曉得再怎麼跟你講下去了反正我覺得說\n\n29\n00:10:55,089 --> 00:11:18,459\n你們就是很懇切的很好的這樣的一個心情希望留住更多的這個同仁但是他們就是因為怎麼樣講要被挖角了如果你還這樣講那好那我們就好好的來了解更清楚嘛我這張我這張這個他們給我的這個陳情書我再給部長啦部長如果你們要再持續這樣答覆我我是覺得你們數碼署是真的\n\n30\n00:11:19,019 --> 00:11:25,390\n我們會仔細調查在做適當的事情你們蘇華署會真的持續發生很多不可思議的事情\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1604\t20202\t謝謝主席 有請黃部長好 請部長部長今天來交通委員會是希望能夠拜託你一件事情就是有關這個目前公部門內爆發的霸凌的問題部長有沒有掌握到這次勞動部勞花署北分署的這個事件\n22648\t42341\t我是第一個提出了解到這個北分署人流異常的委員然後包含那個老挖署他的貴署也是一樣的異常也是在質詢的時候我問出來的那你看這個北分署長就任的時候不到兩年時間他那個單位就好像大爛一樣\n43778\t67116\t一次走了81一位如果連親生那一位他也是有提出申請喔total是82位這是非常非常離譜的一件事情嘛那我有面對這個人力的流動異常的狀態在11月20號的時候在衛生委員會我有特別來要求執行這個權需部跟人事總處然後是我要建置一套這個預警的機制啦那當時的時候這個\n69369\t86084\t這一個權敘不是這麼打呼我他說這個工人離職調集工人員調動資料分別在這兩個單位在做處理但是一直沒有辦法對接出來對接起來那可能要等到明年那我現在私底下了解他可能連明年都沒辦法對接了\n87197\t104103\t這個台灣是個數位資訊進步的國家怎麼會這個離子跟調動的相關資料要對接起來會這麼困難所以我是希望可以請教部長你對這個事情怎麼看法那你這個單位你們貴部能不能予以協助\n105413\t107354\t在10月11日調查結果出來馬上立刻做處置\n120518\t122999\t關於資訊：包括心智：人員調動的比例：內部有自己的統計：其他部會提供數位化的資訊嗎?\n140373\t159785\t沒有啦,我的問題很清楚嘛,八點的事情我都還沒有問你,你就直接講了齁,等一下我們就好好討論啦齁。我是提,我是說請部長,我是今天來特別拜託你,這個人事總處跟這個全庶部,這個離職跟調職的相關資料對接起來,他們說可能到明年才會完成。\n160225\t188436\t我私下了解說可能連明年都對接不起來怎麼接都接不上站在數位部的角度立場跟你們專業能不能予以協助啦我的問題就這樣而已啊那個就是就是堅持這兩個單位的這系統的界界這個我們請那個我們的那個數位政府能不能予以協助啦就這樣而已可以可以嘛可以就好可以就好因為你們如果願意協助應該就不用等到明年甚至要有五期嘛一直對接不上嘛但是這個不是這個\n189616\t189636\t委員８\n209989\t233969\t拜託部長,這樣的技術目前應該是可以辦到嘛,對不對?請教部長,可以嘛。好,那但是如果這個單位的所長階層對人有異常完全不在乎啦,那甚至以為自己單位的人員都是被挖角,還是要照顧家庭,或者是緩鄉,才導致自己單位的人力一直流失,那這個恐怕不是AI的可以去處理的嘛,就沒辦法嘛對不對?如果這個單位的階層\n236775\t259667\t所長接著是認為這樣這個不是AI可以去處理嗎?對吧?對,但是沒有說這個是要靠訪談或怎麼樣去人跟人的關係我知道我的題目都很單純嘛如果是這樣AI是沒辦法幫助嘛簡單講就這樣因為這個所長本身自己有主觀上的認定了嘛那剛剛你特別講到11月21號我本來沒要問你說我有跟你講一些比較有的對不對\n262288\t285893\t知安署內部有情緒管控的問題轉觀存在。貼文講的這麼清楚,部長可以看嘛。長官脾氣暴躁,經常罵人,罵到牆壁都快倒下的感覺。部長有掌握嗎?有,我們現在在調查中。好,我這邊也有同樣接到署名一群知安署的受迫員工借來澄清信,繼續血淚嘛。然後控制知安署的管理不當,直接點名知安署署長跟副署長標罵下屬言語霸凌嘛。\n288612\t294952\t我是接到這個這一張我也有交給部長是嗎?部長等一下你看你怎麼答覆的\n295902\t319031\t照理講這個新的一個單位基本上就像一個新單位大家都會想要轉掉進去的一個單位但是怎麼會現在都轉出來然後資安署是111年8月27日成立預算有16512年是146113年剩下129或許146扣129少了17個大家覺得不怎麼樣但是成立到現在總移植人數是42人平調7人降調14人辭職21人部長你覺得這嚴不嚴重這個單位有沒有出問題\n324830\t327672\t本屬人員調子原因多屬外界挖角,直來發展選擇反鄉家庭照顧或經濟因素或等考量。\n346503\t368108\t而調離現實至本署流動率偏高另又因這一個資産高階人才藍密且本署經用人員過程嚴謹需通過筆試面試篩選呼應本署組織業務特性公人員及聘用人員經用需辦理查核查核通過使得經用相關人員亦受嚴格儘管這一個限制\n368979\t390404\t至常遇到對外公告、徵裁、無人報名、人員資格不符等狀況未來本署將持續積極規劃辦理各類人員徵選、養成與留財、作業、自立、補食、缺額。就這麼難找人啊藍密的治安高階人才正用過程嚴謹的你們還可以在兩年內讓他跑到42位誰要負責?請回答我誰該負責?\n395609\t419044\t不要再給我講到別的題目我時間到了誰該負責啊為什麼有這樣的答覆我給你這一張我給你這一張一群血液員工的控訴你給我答覆這樣的還用正式公文這案是答覆的嗎還是部長你授意他們這樣答覆我的跟委員報告一下我跟你們沒完沒了啊沒有沒有謝謝委員真的非常謝謝委員這個誰要求這樣答覆的\n423335\t444785\t誰做成決議做這樣的公文書打呼到我的辦公室我給你這一張你給我這一個誰決定的啊你打呼我誰決定我沒有問你其他問題誰決定的報告委員您給的這個公文書您給的公文書因為投訴的對象我不是給你公文書我是給你陳情書你是給我公文書誰給的誰做決定\n448559\t456363\t報告委員我們非常想要留所有的員工所以每一個員工去哪裡我們都會追蹤請答覆我誰給我這一張公文書我給你員工的陳情信你給我這一張公文書誰給我的這一張回我的公文信公文書誰回的這個內容\n472927\t490452\t議員８\n491367\t504782\t對,責任使的回覆為什麼我給我是交代國會聯絡人給你部長啊你為什麼還交代責任使的署長來做這樣的官腔官室的回覆然後自己在那邊打臉你就這麼難找人啊這麼嚴謹啊你說兩天用招40幾個\n507685\t529234\t立法院第11屆第12會期交通委員會提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件閱讀委員我們現在在調查中這個回覆是我當然知道你在調查中嘛那院長交代一星期啊這個是一二一發生的事情已經過了一個禮拜了快兩個禮拜了啊那你怎麼還打呼我這種東西我沒有要求你給我調查報告跑了這麼多人兩年新的單位兩單位來找40幾個有嚴重嗎\n534298\t558872\t有沒有嚴重嗎?你們這麼嚴謹的在招募人才,這麼短的單位讓這麼多人,這各位替本話的捏。連替本話都放棄,他以為是辭職捏。不是只有轉調、平調、降調而已捏。跟委員報告,那個投訴的部分我們有列專案小組的那個調查,以上報告。董事長,你覺得他們給我回這樣有道理?\n561890\t563753\t你是覺得我覺得你給我回的不夠具體所以我才今天來這邊質詢\n577642\t595911\t那我們就讓他公開讓大家很清楚的你怎麼回我嗎部裡面現在就是剛剛講說一調查報告出來馬上會做處理那現在就是我們就是這個已經起動了針對員工霸凌是一件事情嘛我是請教部長說這麼短的時間內資安署這麼嚴謹在招募人才對不對這你們寫的嘛那怎麼這麼短的時間讓42位的同仁離開你們的單位誰該負責嘛霸凌是另外一件事情嘛\n605694\t607055\t所以就叫做外界挖角吧\n630987\t653508\t但是委員我有詳細的資料就是每一個人去哪裡這個有詳細的資料所以可以經得起檢視就是我們真的很想留員工所以我們其實都會問員工說那你現在你要去哪裡然後你的薪水是多少那有很多員工告訴我說他薪水變多而且主席給我很長的時間了你如果這麼講我實在也也不曉得再怎麼跟你講下去了反正我覺得說\n655089\t678459\t你們就是很懇切的很好的這樣的一個心情希望留住更多的這個同仁但是他們就是因為怎麼樣講要被挖角了如果你還這樣講那好那我們就好好的來了解更清楚嘛我這張我這張這個他們給我的這個陳情書我再給部長啦部長如果你們要再持續這樣答覆我我是覺得你們數碼署是真的\n679019\t685390\t我們會仔細調查在做適當的事情你們蘇華署會真的持續發生很多不可思議的事情\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請黃部長好 請部長部長今天來交通委員會是希望能夠拜託你一件事情就是有關這個目前公部門內爆發的霸凌的問題部長有沒有掌握到這次勞動部勞花署北分署的這個事件\n我是第一個提出了解到這個北分署人流異常的委員然後包含那個老挖署他的貴署也是一樣的異常也是在質詢的時候我問出來的那你看這個北分署長就任的時候不到兩年時間他那個單位就好像大爛一樣\n一次走了81一位如果連親生那一位他也是有提出申請喔total是82位這是非常非常離譜的一件事情嘛那我有面對這個人力的流動異常的狀態在11月20號的時候在衛生委員會我有特別來要求執行這個權需部跟人事總處然後是我要建置一套這個預警的機制啦那當時的時候這個\n這一個權敘不是這麼打呼我他說這個工人離職調集工人員調動資料分別在這兩個單位在做處理但是一直沒有辦法對接出來對接起來那可能要等到明年那我現在私底下了解他可能連明年都沒辦法對接了\n這個台灣是個數位資訊進步的國家怎麼會這個離子跟調動的相關資料要對接起來會這麼困難所以我是希望可以請教部長你對這個事情怎麼看法那你這個單位你們貴部能不能予以協助\n在10月11日調查結果出來馬上立刻做處置\n關於資訊：包括心智：人員調動的比例：內部有自己的統計：其他部會提供數位化的資訊嗎?\n沒有啦,我的問題很清楚嘛,八點的事情我都還沒有問你,你就直接講了齁,等一下我們就好好討論啦齁。我是提,我是說請部長,我是今天來特別拜託你,這個人事總處跟這個全庶部,這個離職跟調職的相關資料對接起來,他們說可能到明年才會完成。\n我私下了解說可能連明年都對接不起來怎麼接都接不上站在數位部的角度立場跟你們專業能不能予以協助啦我的問題就這樣而已啊那個就是就是堅持這兩個單位的這系統的界界這個我們請那個我們的那個數位政府能不能予以協助啦就這樣而已可以可以嘛可以就好可以就好因為你們如果願意協助應該就不用等到明年甚至要有五期嘛一直對接不上嘛但是這個不是這個\n委員８\n拜託部長,這樣的技術目前應該是可以辦到嘛,對不對?請教部長,可以嘛。好,那但是如果這個單位的所長階層對人有異常完全不在乎啦,那甚至以為自己單位的人員都是被挖角,還是要照顧家庭,或者是緩鄉,才導致自己單位的人力一直流失,那這個恐怕不是AI的可以去處理的嘛,就沒辦法嘛對不對?如果這個單位的階層\n所長接著是認為這樣這個不是AI可以去處理嗎?對吧?對,但是沒有說這個是要靠訪談或怎麼樣去人跟人的關係我知道我的題目都很單純嘛如果是這樣AI是沒辦法幫助嘛簡單講就這樣因為這個所長本身自己有主觀上的認定了嘛那剛剛你特別講到11月21號我本來沒要問你說我有跟你講一些比較有的對不對\n知安署內部有情緒管控的問題轉觀存在。貼文講的這麼清楚,部長可以看嘛。長官脾氣暴躁,經常罵人,罵到牆壁都快倒下的感覺。部長有掌握嗎?有,我們現在在調查中。好,我這邊也有同樣接到署名一群知安署的受迫員工借來澄清信,繼續血淚嘛。然後控制知安署的管理不當,直接點名知安署署長跟副署長標罵下屬言語霸凌嘛。\n我是接到這個這一張我也有交給部長是嗎?部長等一下你看你怎麼答覆的\n照理講這個新的一個單位基本上就像一個新單位大家都會想要轉掉進去的一個單位但是怎麼會現在都轉出來然後資安署是111年8月27日成立預算有16512年是146113年剩下129或許146扣129少了17個大家覺得不怎麼樣但是成立到現在總移植人數是42人平調7人降調14人辭職21人部長你覺得這嚴不嚴重這個單位有沒有出問題\n本屬人員調子原因多屬外界挖角,直來發展選擇反鄉家庭照顧或經濟因素或等考量。\n而調離現實至本署流動率偏高另又因這一個資産高階人才藍密且本署經用人員過程嚴謹需通過筆試面試篩選呼應本署組織業務特性公人員及聘用人員經用需辦理查核查核通過使得經用相關人員亦受嚴格儘管這一個限制\n至常遇到對外公告、徵裁、無人報名、人員資格不符等狀況未來本署將持續積極規劃辦理各類人員徵選、養成與留財、作業、自立、補食、缺額。就這麼難找人啊藍密的治安高階人才正用過程嚴謹的你們還可以在兩年內讓他跑到42位誰要負責?請回答我誰該負責?\n不要再給我講到別的題目我時間到了誰該負責啊為什麼有這樣的答覆我給你這一張我給你這一張一群血液員工的控訴你給我答覆這樣的還用正式公文這案是答覆的嗎還是部長你授意他們這樣答覆我的跟委員報告一下我跟你們沒完沒了啊沒有沒有謝謝委員真的非常謝謝委員這個誰要求這樣答覆的\n誰做成決議做這樣的公文書打呼到我的辦公室我給你這一張你給我這一個誰決定的啊你打呼我誰決定我沒有問你其他問題誰決定的報告委員您給的這個公文書您給的公文書因為投訴的對象我不是給你公文書我是給你陳情書你是給我公文書誰給的誰做決定\n報告委員我們非常想要留所有的員工所以每一個員工去哪裡我們都會追蹤請答覆我誰給我這一張公文書我給你員工的陳情信你給我這一張公文書誰給我的這一張回我的公文信公文書誰回的這個內容\n議員８\n對,責任使的回覆為什麼我給我是交代國會聯絡人給你部長啊你為什麼還交代責任使的署長來做這樣的官腔官室的回覆然後自己在那邊打臉你就這麼難找人啊這麼嚴謹啊你說兩天用招40幾個\n立法院第11屆第12會期交通委員會提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件閱讀委員我們現在在調查中這個回覆是我當然知道你在調查中嘛那院長交代一星期啊這個是一二一發生的事情已經過了一個禮拜了快兩個禮拜了啊那你怎麼還打呼我這種東西我沒有要求你給我調查報告跑了這麼多人兩年新的單位兩單位來找40幾個有嚴重嗎\n有沒有嚴重嗎?你們這麼嚴謹的在招募人才,這麼短的單位讓這麼多人,這各位替本話的捏。連替本話都放棄,他以為是辭職捏。不是只有轉調、平調、降調而已捏。跟委員報告,那個投訴的部分我們有列專案小組的那個調查,以上報告。董事長,你覺得他們給我回這樣有道理?\n你是覺得我覺得你給我回的不夠具體所以我才今天來這邊質詢\n那我們就讓他公開讓大家很清楚的你怎麼回我嗎部裡面現在就是剛剛講說一調查報告出來馬上會做處理那現在就是我們就是這個已經起動了針對員工霸凌是一件事情嘛我是請教部長說這麼短的時間內資安署這麼嚴謹在招募人才對不對這你們寫的嘛那怎麼這麼短的時間讓42位的同仁離開你們的單位誰該負責嘛霸凌是另外一件事情嘛\n所以就叫做外界挖角吧\n但是委員我有詳細的資料就是每一個人去哪裡這個有詳細的資料所以可以經得起檢視就是我們真的很想留員工所以我們其實都會問員工說那你現在你要去哪裡然後你的薪水是多少那有很多員工告訴我說他薪水變多而且主席給我很長的時間了你如果這麼講我實在也也不曉得再怎麼跟你講下去了反正我覺得說\n你們就是很懇切的很好的這樣的一個心情希望留住更多的這個同仁但是他們就是因為怎麼樣講要被挖角了如果你還這樣講那好那我們就好好的來了解更清楚嘛我這張我這張這個他們給我的這個陳情書我再給部長啦部長如果你們要再持續這樣答覆我我是覺得你們數碼署是真的\n我們會仔細調查在做適當的事情你們蘇華署會真的持續發生很多不可思議的事情\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.604 --> 00:20.202\n謝謝主席有請黃部長好請部長部長今天來交通委員會是希望能夠拜託你一件事情就是有關這個目前公部門內爆發的霸凌的問題部長有沒有掌握到這次勞動部勞花署北分署的這個事件\n\n00:22.648 --> 00:42.341\n我是第一個提出了解到這個北分署人流異常的委員然後包含那個老挖署他的貴署也是一樣的異常也是在質詢的時候我問出來的那你看這個北分署長就任的時候不到兩年時間他那個單位就好像大爛一樣\n\n00:43.778 --> 01:07.116\n一次走了81一位如果連親生那一位他也是有提出申請喔total是82位這是非常非常離譜的一件事情嘛那我有面對這個人力的流動異常的狀態在11月20號的時候在衛生委員會我有特別來要求執行這個權需部跟人事總處然後是我要建置一套這個預警的機制啦那當時的時候這個\n\n01:09.369 --> 01:26.084\n這一個權敘不是這麼打呼我他說這個工人離職調集工人員調動資料分別在這兩個單位在做處理但是一直沒有辦法對接出來對接起來那可能要等到明年那我現在私底下了解他可能連明年都沒辦法對接了\n\n01:27.197 --> 01:44.103\n這個台灣是個數位資訊進步的國家怎麼會這個離子跟調動的相關資料要對接起來會這麼困難所以我是希望可以請教部長你對這個事情怎麼看法那你這個單位你們貴部能不能予以協助\n\n01:45.413 --> 01:47.354\n在10月11日調查結果出來馬上立刻做處置\n\n02:00.518 --> 02:02.999\n關於資訊：包括心智：人員調動的比例：內部有自己的統計：其他部會提供數位化的資訊嗎?\n\n02:20.373 --> 02:39.785\n沒有啦,我的問題很清楚嘛,八點的事情我都還沒有問你,你就直接講了齁,等一下我們就好好討論啦齁。我是提,我是說請部長,我是今天來特別拜託你,這個人事總處跟這個全庶部,這個離職跟調職的相關資料對接起來,他們說可能到明年才會完成。\n\n02:40.225 --> 03:08.436\n我私下了解說可能連明年都對接不起來怎麼接都接不上站在數位部的角度立場跟你們專業能不能予以協助啦我的問題就這樣而已啊那個就是就是堅持這兩個單位的這系統的界界這個我們請那個我們的那個數位政府能不能予以協助啦就這樣而已可以可以嘛可以就好可以就好因為你們如果願意協助應該就不用等到明年甚至要有五期嘛一直對接不上嘛但是這個不是這個\n\n03:09.616 --> 03:09.636\n委員８\n\n03:29.989 --> 03:53.969\n拜託部長,這樣的技術目前應該是可以辦到嘛,對不對?請教部長,可以嘛。好,那但是如果這個單位的所長階層對人有異常完全不在乎啦,那甚至以為自己單位的人員都是被挖角,還是要照顧家庭,或者是緩鄉,才導致自己單位的人力一直流失,那這個恐怕不是AI的可以去處理的嘛,就沒辦法嘛對不對?如果這個單位的階層\n\n03:56.775 --> 04:19.667\n所長接著是認為這樣這個不是AI可以去處理嗎?對吧?對,但是沒有說這個是要靠訪談或怎麼樣去人跟人的關係我知道我的題目都很單純嘛如果是這樣AI是沒辦法幫助嘛簡單講就這樣因為這個所長本身自己有主觀上的認定了嘛那剛剛你特別講到11月21號我本來沒要問你說我有跟你講一些比較有的對不對\n\n04:22.288 --> 04:45.893\n知安署內部有情緒管控的問題轉觀存在。貼文講的這麼清楚,部長可以看嘛。長官脾氣暴躁,經常罵人,罵到牆壁都快倒下的感覺。部長有掌握嗎?有,我們現在在調查中。好,我這邊也有同樣接到署名一群知安署的受迫員工借來澄清信,繼續血淚嘛。然後控制知安署的管理不當,直接點名知安署署長跟副署長標罵下屬言語霸凌嘛。\n\n04:48.612 --> 04:54.952\n我是接到這個這一張我也有交給部長是嗎?部長等一下你看你怎麼答覆的\n\n04:55.902 --> 05:19.031\n照理講這個新的一個單位基本上就像一個新單位大家都會想要轉掉進去的一個單位但是怎麼會現在都轉出來然後資安署是111年8月27日成立預算有16512年是146113年剩下129或許146扣129少了17個大家覺得不怎麼樣但是成立到現在總移植人數是42人平調7人降調14人辭職21人部長你覺得這嚴不嚴重這個單位有沒有出問題\n\n05:24.830 --> 05:27.672\n本屬人員調子原因多屬外界挖角,直來發展選擇反鄉家庭照顧或經濟因素或等考量。\n\n05:46.503 --> 06:08.108\n而調離現實至本署流動率偏高另又因這一個資産高階人才藍密且本署經用人員過程嚴謹需通過筆試面試篩選呼應本署組織業務特性公人員及聘用人員經用需辦理查核查核通過使得經用相關人員亦受嚴格儘管這一個限制\n\n06:08.979 --> 06:30.404\n至常遇到對外公告、徵裁、無人報名、人員資格不符等狀況未來本署將持續積極規劃辦理各類人員徵選、養成與留財、作業、自立、補食、缺額。就這麼難找人啊藍密的治安高階人才正用過程嚴謹的你們還可以在兩年內讓他跑到42位誰要負責?請回答我誰該負責?\n\n06:35.609 --> 06:59.044\n不要再給我講到別的題目我時間到了誰該負責啊為什麼有這樣的答覆我給你這一張我給你這一張一群血液員工的控訴你給我答覆這樣的還用正式公文這案是答覆的嗎還是部長你授意他們這樣答覆我的跟委員報告一下我跟你們沒完沒了啊沒有沒有謝謝委員真的非常謝謝委員這個誰要求這樣答覆的\n\n07:03.335 --> 07:24.785\n誰做成決議做這樣的公文書打呼到我的辦公室我給你這一張你給我這一個誰決定的啊你打呼我誰決定我沒有問你其他問題誰決定的報告委員您給的這個公文書您給的公文書因為投訴的對象我不是給你公文書我是給你陳情書你是給我公文書誰給的誰做決定\n\n07:28.559 --> 07:36.363\n報告委員我們非常想要留所有的員工所以每一個員工去哪裡我們都會追蹤請答覆我誰給我這一張公文書我給你員工的陳情信你給我這一張公文書誰給我的這一張回我的公文信公文書誰回的這個內容\n\n08:11.367 --> 08:24.782\n對,責任使的回覆為什麼我給我是交代國會聯絡人給你部長啊你為什麼還交代責任使的署長來做這樣的官腔官室的回覆然後自己在那邊打臉你就這麼難找人啊這麼嚴謹啊你說兩天用招40幾個\n\n08:27.685 --> 08:49.234\n立法院第11屆第12會期交通委員會提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件閱讀委員我們現在在調查中這個回覆是我當然知道你在調查中嘛那院長交代一星期啊這個是一二一發生的事情已經過了一個禮拜了快兩個禮拜了啊那你怎麼還打呼我這種東西我沒有要求你給我調查報告跑了這麼多人兩年新的單位兩單位來找40幾個有嚴重嗎\n\n08:54.298 --> 09:18.872\n有沒有嚴重嗎?你們這麼嚴謹的在招募人才,這麼短的單位讓這麼多人,這各位替本話的捏。連替本話都放棄,他以為是辭職捏。不是只有轉調、平調、降調而已捏。跟委員報告,那個投訴的部分我們有列專案小組的那個調查,以上報告。董事長,你覺得他們給我回這樣有道理?\n\n09:21.890 --> 09:23.753\n你是覺得我覺得你給我回的不夠具體所以我才今天來這邊質詢\n\n09:37.642 --> 09:55.911\n那我們就讓他公開讓大家很清楚的你怎麼回我嗎部裡面現在就是剛剛講說一調查報告出來馬上會做處理那現在就是我們就是這個已經起動了針對員工霸凌是一件事情嘛我是請教部長說這麼短的時間內資安署這麼嚴謹在招募人才對不對這你們寫的嘛那怎麼這麼短的時間讓42位的同仁離開你們的單位誰該負責嘛霸凌是另外一件事情嘛\n\n10:05.694 --> 10:07.055\n所以就叫做外界挖角吧\n\n10:30.987 --> 10:53.508\n但是委員我有詳細的資料就是每一個人去哪裡這個有詳細的資料所以可以經得起檢視就是我們真的很想留員工所以我們其實都會問員工說那你現在你要去哪裡然後你的薪水是多少那有很多員工告訴我說他薪水變多而且主席給我很長的時間了你如果這麼講我實在也也不曉得再怎麼跟你講下去了反正我覺得說\n\n10:55.089 --> 11:18.459\n你們就是很懇切的很好的這樣的一個心情希望留住更多的這個同仁但是他們就是因為怎麼樣講要被挖角了如果你還這樣講那好那我們就好好的來了解更清楚嘛我這張我這張這個他們給我的這個陳情書我再給部長啦部長如果你們要再持續這樣答覆我我是覺得你們數碼署是真的\n\n11:19.019 --> 11:25.390\n我們會仔細調查在做適當的事情你們蘇華署會真的持續發生很多不可思議的事情\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.604,"end":20.202,"text":"謝謝主席 有請黃部長好 請部長部長今天來交通委員會是希望能夠拜託你一件事情就是有關這個目前公部門內爆發的霸凌的問題部長有沒有掌握到這次勞動部勞花署北分署的這個事件"},{"start":22.648,"end":42.341,"text":"我是第一個提出了解到這個北分署人流異常的委員然後包含那個老挖署他的貴署也是一樣的異常也是在質詢的時候我問出來的那你看這個北分署長就任的時候不到兩年時間他那個單位就好像大爛一樣"},{"start":43.778,"end":67.116,"text":"一次走了81一位如果連親生那一位他也是有提出申請喔total是82位這是非常非常離譜的一件事情嘛那我有面對這個人力的流動異常的狀態在11月20號的時候在衛生委員會我有特別來要求執行這個權需部跟人事總處然後是我要建置一套這個預警的機制啦那當時的時候這個"},{"start":69.369,"end":86.084,"text":"這一個權敘不是這麼打呼我他說這個工人離職調集工人員調動資料分別在這兩個單位在做處理但是一直沒有辦法對接出來對接起來那可能要等到明年那我現在私底下了解他可能連明年都沒辦法對接了"},{"start":87.197,"end":104.103,"text":"這個台灣是個數位資訊進步的國家怎麼會這個離子跟調動的相關資料要對接起來會這麼困難所以我是希望可以請教部長你對這個事情怎麼看法那你這個單位你們貴部能不能予以協助"},{"start":105.413,"end":107.354,"text":"在10月11日調查結果出來馬上立刻做處置"},{"start":120.518,"end":122.999,"text":"關於資訊：包括心智：人員調動的比例：內部有自己的統計：其他部會提供數位化的資訊嗎?"},{"start":140.373,"end":159.785,"text":"沒有啦,我的問題很清楚嘛,八點的事情我都還沒有問你,你就直接講了齁,等一下我們就好好討論啦齁。我是提,我是說請部長,我是今天來特別拜託你,這個人事總處跟這個全庶部,這個離職跟調職的相關資料對接起來,他們說可能到明年才會完成。"},{"start":160.225,"end":188.436,"text":"我私下了解說可能連明年都對接不起來怎麼接都接不上站在數位部的角度立場跟你們專業能不能予以協助啦我的問題就這樣而已啊那個就是就是堅持這兩個單位的這系統的界界這個我們請那個我們的那個數位政府能不能予以協助啦就這樣而已可以可以嘛可以就好可以就好因為你們如果願意協助應該就不用等到明年甚至要有五期嘛一直對接不上嘛但是這個不是這個"},{"start":189.616,"end":189.636,"text":"委員８"},{"start":209.989,"end":233.969,"text":"拜託部長,這樣的技術目前應該是可以辦到嘛,對不對?請教部長,可以嘛。好,那但是如果這個單位的所長階層對人有異常完全不在乎啦,那甚至以為自己單位的人員都是被挖角,還是要照顧家庭,或者是緩鄉,才導致自己單位的人力一直流失,那這個恐怕不是AI的可以去處理的嘛,就沒辦法嘛對不對?如果這個單位的階層"},{"start":236.775,"end":259.667,"text":"所長接著是認為這樣這個不是AI可以去處理嗎?對吧?對,但是沒有說這個是要靠訪談或怎麼樣去人跟人的關係我知道我的題目都很單純嘛如果是這樣AI是沒辦法幫助嘛簡單講就這樣因為這個所長本身自己有主觀上的認定了嘛那剛剛你特別講到11月21號我本來沒要問你說我有跟你講一些比較有的對不對"},{"start":262.288,"end":285.893,"text":"知安署內部有情緒管控的問題轉觀存在。貼文講的這麼清楚,部長可以看嘛。長官脾氣暴躁,經常罵人,罵到牆壁都快倒下的感覺。部長有掌握嗎?有,我們現在在調查中。好,我這邊也有同樣接到署名一群知安署的受迫員工借來澄清信,繼續血淚嘛。然後控制知安署的管理不當,直接點名知安署署長跟副署長標罵下屬言語霸凌嘛。"},{"start":288.612,"end":294.952,"text":"我是接到這個這一張我也有交給部長是嗎?部長等一下你看你怎麼答覆的"},{"start":295.902,"end":319.031,"text":"照理講這個新的一個單位基本上就像一個新單位大家都會想要轉掉進去的一個單位但是怎麼會現在都轉出來然後資安署是111年8月27日成立預算有16512年是146113年剩下129或許146扣129少了17個大家覺得不怎麼樣但是成立到現在總移植人數是42人平調7人降調14人辭職21人部長你覺得這嚴不嚴重這個單位有沒有出問題"},{"start":324.83,"end":327.672,"text":"本屬人員調子原因多屬外界挖角,直來發展選擇反鄉家庭照顧或經濟因素或等考量。"},{"start":346.503,"end":368.108,"text":"而調離現實至本署流動率偏高另又因這一個資産高階人才藍密且本署經用人員過程嚴謹需通過筆試面試篩選呼應本署組織業務特性公人員及聘用人員經用需辦理查核查核通過使得經用相關人員亦受嚴格儘管這一個限制"},{"start":368.979,"end":390.404,"text":"至常遇到對外公告、徵裁、無人報名、人員資格不符等狀況未來本署將持續積極規劃辦理各類人員徵選、養成與留財、作業、自立、補食、缺額。就這麼難找人啊藍密的治安高階人才正用過程嚴謹的你們還可以在兩年內讓他跑到42位誰要負責?請回答我誰該負責?"},{"start":395.609,"end":419.044,"text":"不要再給我講到別的題目我時間到了誰該負責啊為什麼有這樣的答覆我給你這一張我給你這一張一群血液員工的控訴你給我答覆這樣的還用正式公文這案是答覆的嗎還是部長你授意他們這樣答覆我的跟委員報告一下我跟你們沒完沒了啊沒有沒有謝謝委員真的非常謝謝委員這個誰要求這樣答覆的"},{"start":423.335,"end":444.785,"text":"誰做成決議做這樣的公文書打呼到我的辦公室我給你這一張你給我這一個誰決定的啊你打呼我誰決定我沒有問你其他問題誰決定的報告委員您給的這個公文書您給的公文書因為投訴的對象我不是給你公文書我是給你陳情書你是給我公文書誰給的誰做決定"},{"start":448.559,"end":456.363,"text":"報告委員我們非常想要留所有的員工所以每一個員工去哪裡我們都會追蹤請答覆我誰給我這一張公文書我給你員工的陳情信你給我這一張公文書誰給我的這一張回我的公文信公文書誰回的這個內容"},{"start":472.927,"end":490.452,"text":"議員８"},{"start":491.367,"end":504.782,"text":"對,責任使的回覆為什麼我給我是交代國會聯絡人給你部長啊你為什麼還交代責任使的署長來做這樣的官腔官室的回覆然後自己在那邊打臉你就這麼難找人啊這麼嚴謹啊你說兩天用招40幾個"},{"start":507.685,"end":529.234,"text":"立法院第11屆第12會期交通委員會提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件閱讀委員我們現在在調查中這個回覆是我當然知道你在調查中嘛那院長交代一星期啊這個是一二一發生的事情已經過了一個禮拜了快兩個禮拜了啊那你怎麼還打呼我這種東西我沒有要求你給我調查報告跑了這麼多人兩年新的單位兩單位來找40幾個有嚴重嗎"},{"start":534.298,"end":558.872,"text":"有沒有嚴重嗎?你們這麼嚴謹的在招募人才,這麼短的單位讓這麼多人,這各位替本話的捏。連替本話都放棄,他以為是辭職捏。不是只有轉調、平調、降調而已捏。跟委員報告,那個投訴的部分我們有列專案小組的那個調查,以上報告。董事長,你覺得他們給我回這樣有道理?"},{"start":561.89,"end":563.753,"text":"你是覺得我覺得你給我回的不夠具體所以我才今天來這邊質詢"},{"start":577.642,"end":595.911,"text":"那我們就讓他公開讓大家很清楚的你怎麼回我嗎部裡面現在就是剛剛講說一調查報告出來馬上會做處理那現在就是我們就是這個已經起動了針對員工霸凌是一件事情嘛我是請教部長說這麼短的時間內資安署這麼嚴謹在招募人才對不對這你們寫的嘛那怎麼這麼短的時間讓42位的同仁離開你們的單位誰該負責嘛霸凌是另外一件事情嘛"},{"start":605.694,"end":607.055,"text":"所以就叫做外界挖角吧"},{"start":630.987,"end":653.508,"text":"但是委員我有詳細的資料就是每一個人去哪裡這個有詳細的資料所以可以經得起檢視就是我們真的很想留員工所以我們其實都會問員工說那你現在你要去哪裡然後你的薪水是多少那有很多員工告訴我說他薪水變多而且主席給我很長的時間了你如果這麼講我實在也也不曉得再怎麼跟你講下去了反正我覺得說"},{"start":655.089,"end":678.459,"text":"你們就是很懇切的很好的這樣的一個心情希望留住更多的這個同仁但是他們就是因為怎麼樣講要被挖角了如果你還這樣講那好那我們就好好的來了解更清楚嘛我這張我這張這個他們給我的這個陳情書我再給部長啦部長如果你們要再持續這樣答覆我我是覺得你們數碼署是真的"},{"start":679.019,"end":685.39,"text":"我們會仔細調查在做適當的事情你們蘇華署會真的持續發生很多不可思議的事情"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1271,"blocks":[["劉委員建國：（13時24分）謝謝主席，有請黃部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["劉委員建國：部長，今天來交通委員會是希望能夠拜託你一件事情。"],["黃部長彥男：劉委員好。"],["劉委員建國：就是有關目前公部門內爆發的霸凌問題。部長有沒有掌握到這次勞動部勞發署北分署這個事件？"],["黃部長彥男：有，這個事件……"],["劉委員建國：好。我是第一個提出了解到北分署人流異常的委員，包含勞發署也是一樣異常，也是在質詢的時候我問出來的。你看這名北分署長就任之後，不到兩年時間，他那個單位就好像大逃難一樣，一次走了81位，如果連輕生那一位，他也是有提出申請，total是82位，這是非常非常離譜的一件事情。面對人力流動異常的狀態，11月20號的時候在衛環委員會，我有特別要求質詢銓敘部跟人事總處，然後是否要建置一套預警的機制。當時銓敘部是這麼答復我的，他說公務人員離職及調動資料分別在這兩個單位處理，但是一直沒有辦法對接起來，可能要等到明年，我現在私底下了解，可能連明年都沒辦法對接了。臺灣是個數位資訊進步的國家，怎麼會離職跟調動的相關資料要對接起來這麼困難？所以我是希望可以請教部長，你對這個事情什麼看法？你這個單位、你們貴部能不能予以協助？"],["黃部長彥男：第一個，就是剛剛委員提到的霸凌這個事情，我也一直在強調，這是在我們單位也不容許的事情，所以我們現在已經啟動調查，當然在12月11號調查結果一出來，我們馬上做處置。另外剛剛委員講的資訊，就是包括薪資或是人員調動的比例，我們內部是有自己的統計，但是其他部會，我不知道委員指的是我們要提供數位化的資訊嗎？還是……"],["劉委員建國：沒有啦！我的問題很清楚，霸凌的事情我都還沒問你，你就直接講了，等一下我們就好好討論啦！我是今天來這邊拜託你，人事總處跟銓敘部對於離職跟調職的相關資料對接起來，他們說可能到明年才會完成，我私下了解可能連明年都對接不起來，怎麼接都接不上，站在數位部的角度、立場，跟你們的專業，能不能予以協助？我的問題就這樣而已啊！"],["黃部長彥男：關於建置這兩個單位系統的介接，這個我們請我們的數位政府……"],["劉委員建國：能不能予以協助啦？就這樣而已！"],["黃部長彥男：可以。"],["劉委員建國：可以就好，因為你們如果願意協助，應該就不用等到明年，甚至於遙遙無期一直對接不上！"],["黃部長彥男：我們數政司會……"],["劉委員建國：但是這不只是我要的東西，我要的應該是預警的系統跟機制，因為這個有建置起來，你才有辦法做這些事情啦！","我接下來就要說，只要數據資料庫能對接起來，導入AI去監控這個數據，特定單位的人流過於異常，系統自動提醒相關單位介入了解，這樣的技術目前應該是可以辦到嘛，對不對？請教部長。"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["劉委員建國：可以嘛！好，但是如果這個單位的首長階層對人流異常完全不在乎，甚至認為自己單位的人員都是被挖角，還是要照顧家庭或者是返鄉，才導致自己單位的人力一直流失，這個恐怕不是AI可以去處理的嘛！沒辦法嘛，對不對？如果這個單位的首長階層是認為這樣，這個就不是AI可以去處理的嘛，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：對，但是……"],["劉委員建國：對嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：沒錯，這個是要靠訪談或怎麼樣，人跟人的關係還是要……"],["劉委員建國：我知道，我的題目都很單純。如果是這樣，AI也是沒辦法幫助嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：沒辦法！"],["劉委員建國：簡單講就這樣，因為這個首長本身自己有主觀上的一個認定了。剛剛你特別講到11月21號，我本來沒有要問，既然你說了，我就說多一點。資安署內部有情緒管控問題的長官存在，貼文講得這麼清楚，部長可以看，長官脾氣暴躁經常罵人，罵到牆壁都快倒下來的感覺，部長有掌握嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：有，我們現在在調查中。"],["劉委員建國：好，我這邊也同樣有接到署名一群資安署受迫員工寄來的陳情信，句句血淚，控訴資安署管理不當，直接點名資安署署長跟副署長飆罵下屬，言語霸凌，我是接到這個，這一張我有交給……"],["黃部長彥男：有，我們在查。"],["劉委員建國：有給部長室，部長，等一下看你怎麼答復的。照理講，一個新的單位基本上就像一個新大陸，大家都會想要轉調進去的一個單位，但是怎麼會現在都轉出來？資安署是111年8月27號成立，預算員額是165，112年是146，113年剩下129，146扣129，少了17個，大家覺得不怎麼樣，但是成立到現在總離職人數是42人，平調7人、降調14人、辭職21人，部長，你覺得這嚴不嚴重？這個單位有沒有出問題？"],["黃部長彥男：這個數目確實是比較偏高啦！所以我剛剛講……"],["劉委員建國：嚴不嚴重嘛？"],["黃部長彥男：算是嚴重。"],["劉委員建國：好，算是嚴重！你知道我給你的這個陳情書，你們怎麼回應我的嗎？主席，我念給大家聽一下，不好意思，占用一點時間。","本署人員調職原因多屬外界挖角、職涯發展、選擇返鄉家庭照顧，或經濟因素等考量而調離現職，致本署流動率偏高。另又因資安高階人才難覓，且本署進用人員過程嚴謹，需通過筆試、面試篩選，或因本署組織業務特性，公務人員及聘用人員進用需辦理查核，查核通過始得進用，相關人員亦受嚴格境管限制，致常遇到對外公告徵才無人報名，人員資格不符等狀況。未來本署將持續積極規劃辦理各類人員徵選、養成與留才作業，致力補實缺額。就是很難找人啊！難覓的資安高階人才，徵用過程嚴謹的，你們還可以在兩年內讓他跑掉42位，誰要負責？請回答我！"],["黃部長彥男：署長……"],["劉委員建國：誰該負責？不要再跟我講到別的地方，我時間到了。"],["謝署長翠娟：是，了解……"],["劉委員建國：誰該負責？"],["謝署長翠娟：謝謝委員。"],["劉委員建國：為什麼有這樣的答復？我給你這一張一群血淚員工的控訴，你給我答復這樣，還用正式公文，資安署答復的嗎？還是部長你授意他們這樣答復我的？"],["謝署長翠娟：跟委員報告一下……"],["劉委員建國：我跟你們沒完沒了！"],["謝署長翠娟：沒有。謝謝委員，真的非常謝謝委員關切我們的員工。"],["劉委員建國：這個是誰要求這樣答復的？誰作成決議以這樣的公文書答復到我的辦公室？我給你這一張，你給我這一個！誰決定的啦？你答復我誰決定的！我沒有問你其他問題，誰決定的？"],["謝署長翠娟：報告委員，您手上的公文書……"],["劉委員建國：就是你資安署決定的，是不是？"],["謝署長翠娟：您給的公文書，因為投訴的對象……"],["劉委員建國：我不是給你公文書，我是給你陳情書，你是給我公文書，誰給的？誰做決定？"],["謝署長翠娟：報告委員，我們非常想要留所有的員工，所以每一個員工去哪裡我們都會追蹤，他們到哪邊，我們都有……"],["劉委員建國：請答復我，誰給我這一張公文書？"],["謝署長翠娟：我們是……"],["劉委員建國：我給你員工的陳情信，你給我這張公文書，誰給我這一張？誰給我的公文書？誰回的這個內容？你們願意面對問題嗎？你們要處理問題嗎？你們如果要處理問題，連這樣正式答復的公文書都講到你們之間的矛盾、衝突，不近人性啊！離譜極致啊！部長，你要怎麼處理？"],["黃部長彥男：那個是資安署的回復嘛！"],["劉委員建國：對，資安署的回復，我是交代國會聯絡人給你部長啊！你為什麼要交代資安署的署長來做這樣的官腔官式的回復？然後自己在那邊打臉，就已經這麼難找人，這麼嚴謹了，還在兩年跑掉四十幾個，你還好意思說！"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我們現在在調查中，這個回復……"],["劉委員建國：我當然知道你在調查中，院長交代一星期啊，這個是1121發生的事情，已經過了一個禮拜，快兩個禮拜了，那你怎麼還答復我這種東西？我沒有要求你給我調查報告，跑了這麼多人，新的單位，兩年多來跑掉四十幾個，有嚴重嗎？有沒有嚴重嘛？你們這麼嚴謹的在招募人才，這麼短的時間讓這麼多人跑掉，這還是鐵飯碗，連鐵飯碗都放棄，有的人是辭職耶！不是只有轉調、平調、降調而已耶！"],["莫處長永榮：跟委員報告，投訴的部分，我們有列專案小組的調查，以上報告。"],["劉委員建國：部長，你覺得他們回我這樣有道理嗎？回這一張公文書有沒有道理？"],["謝署長翠娟：報告委員，如果您覺得我們回復得不夠具體，其實我們每一個同仁離職的原因，我們都有去追蹤，我們給委員詳細的報告好嗎？"],["劉委員建國：你是覺得我覺得你給我回得不夠具體，所以我今天才來這邊質詢？那我們就讓它公開，讓大家很清楚你怎麼回我嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我部裡面現在就是剛剛講的，調查報告出來馬上會做處理，現在我們就是已經啟動……"],["劉委員建國：針對員工霸凌這件事情，我是請教部長，這麼短的時間內，資安署這麼嚴謹在招募人才，對不對？這是你們寫的，那怎麼會在這麼短的時間讓42位同仁離開你們單位？誰該負責嘛？霸凌是另外一件事情嘛！人流異常這麼嚴重，比例這麼高，誰該負責嘛？你答復我這個問題啊！"],["黃部長彥男：這是署的工作，署長可以再說明……"],["謝署長翠娟：報告委員，我們非常希望留任員工，但是同仁如果在民間找到比較高的薪水，人事行政總處有要求我們必須尊重員工想要去找到更高的薪水，或者是更近的……"],["劉委員建國：所以就叫做外界挖角嘛？"],["謝署長翠娟：但是，委員，我有詳細的資料，就是每一個人去哪裡，這個都有詳細的資料，所以可以禁得起檢視，我們真的很想留員工，所以我們都會問員工你要去哪裡，然後薪水是多少，很多員工告訴我他的薪水變多，所以我們真的必須尊重。"],["劉委員建國：我要謝謝主席給我很長的時間，你如果這麼講，我實在也不曉得再怎麼跟你講下去了，反正我覺得你們就是很懇切的、很好的一個心情，希望留住更多同仁，但是他們就是因為怎麼樣、怎麼樣，被挖角了，如果你還這樣講，那好，我們就好好地來了解得更清楚嘛！這一張他們給我的陳情書，我再給部長，部長，如果你要再持續這樣答復我，我是覺得你們數發部真的……"],["黃部長彥男：我們會仔細調查，再做適當的……"],["劉委員建國：你們數發部真的會持續發生很多不可思議的事情！"],["黃部長彥男：好，了解。"],["劉委員建國：謝謝主席，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝劉建國委員，謝謝部長。","接下來請賴士葆委員發言，賴士葆，賴士葆委員不在。","羅廷瑋、羅廷瑋，羅廷瑋委員不在。","鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐，鄭正鈐委員不在。","蘇清泉、蘇清泉，蘇清泉委員不在。","高金素梅、高金素梅，高金素梅委員不在。","王美惠、王美惠，王美惠委員不在。","張啓楷、張啓楷，張啓楷委員不在。","羅美玲、羅美玲，羅美玲委員不在。","登記質詢委員均已發言完畢，我們作以下決議：一、報告及詢答完畢。二、委員羅美玲所提書面質詢，列入紀錄並刊登公報。三、委員在質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答復部分，請數位發展部儘速以書面答復。四、114年度數位發展部單位預算另擇期進行處理，委員預算提案在12月20號（星期五）中午12點前截止收件。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}}