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601.592, \"end\": 601.692, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 601.692, \"end\": 601.812, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 601.812, \"end\": 602.032, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 602.032, \"end\": 602.193, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 602.193, \"end\": 602.213, \"score\": 0.53}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,173 --> 00:00:13,456\n我請李主委跟劉部長好請李主委劉部長好那個\n\n2\n00:00:30,990 --> 00:00:48,765\n主委跟部長我們今天當然是主要的深水區這我想是選罷法我想請教一下李主委就人民的創制複決權等等的你覺得選罷法如果\n\n3\n00:00:51,066 --> 00:00:57,491\n審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．\n\n4\n00:01:19,913 --> 00:01:46,440\n選罷免的門檻各國規定的標準當然不同詳細的資料恐怕我們還必須要再做彙整我跟您講全世界如果有這樣我個人所知道沒有說一定要比當選票數要多一票這個很奇怪那為什麼不多5%那為什麼要怎樣我覺得這個是大家可以好好的去探討的一個問題\n\n5\n00:01:48,716 --> 00:02:01,050\n所以我會覺得說今天這個不是不能討論但是知識體大我覺得這麼一個影響人民他的罷免權\n\n6\n00:02:02,281 --> 00:02:21,058\n審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人\n\n7\n00:02:30,458 --> 00:02:56,166\n我認為有兩點可能大家必須要深入的來思考這樣子的修正是否合理第一個就是我一再的強調在投票的時間到真正罷免要投票的時間中間至少要經過一年半這一年半的時間民意有變化了人事有改變了所以你用\n\n8\n00:02:56,966 --> 00:03:24,044\n一年半以前的民意要來否定一年半以後現在的民意這個是不合理的這是第一點那第二點就是選舉的時候跟罷免的時候他的投票率也好他的當選人的當選的席次也好他參選的人數也好這個基礎都不一樣的所以也會影響到得票數的多寡\n\n9\n00:03:24,784 --> 00:03:32,068\n二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：\n\n10\n00:03:52,398 --> 00:03:55,380\n選前民調公布日期在世界各國有沒有相同的規定?\n\n11\n00:04:08,524 --> 00:04:24,851\n我們所瞭解的應該有啦,應該有,詳細的資料我們並沒有做收集跟整理。有啦,台灣在制定這個也是參考國外的啦,對不對?因為為什麼呢?這個叫做選前的寧靜。\n\n12\n00:04:27,677 --> 00:04:47,452\n這是要讓選民知道他的訊息到底是真的還假的讓選民能夠去從眾多的訊息裡面去知道哪一個訊息是真的哪一個訊息是假的他才能夠去判斷他如何去準確的投票主委如果我們現在改成前三日\n\n13\n00:04:48,493 --> 00:05:17,238\n那在三日前弄一些假訊息假民調你覺得選民有可能在這麼短的時間內去了解這個訊息是真的是假的嗎?主委所以我個人是認為啦國外的規定很多但我們台灣啊十天我覺得是比較剛好啦為什麼?我們兩千多萬人\n\n14\n00:05:18,137 --> 00:05:28,835\n我們什麼樣的人都有那我們的訊息管道真的太多了還有對其他不友好的國家的認知作戰如果你在選前三天哇\n\n15\n00:05:29,841 --> 00:05:42,444\n二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n\n16\n00:05:57,355 --> 00:06:05,345\n同票數要先驗票然後再來做我不知道內政部跟主委你們的看法\n\n17\n00:06:07,093 --> 00:06:27,137\n同票數現在是直接抽籤嘛那有人提議說同票數要先驗票之後再抽籤是那我們會考量到說要公告這個當選人的名單因為你在重新驗票的時候不是我們所想像當中的那麼的簡單包括村里長也是一樣尤其村里長的差差額非常的小\n\n18\n00:06:27,877 --> 00:06:51,591\n如果全國村里長一致在選舉的期間每個人都重新驗票的話恐怕會影響到地方選委會或是中央選委會要公告當選人名單因為他後面本來就有其他當選無效的這些訴訟的這些處罰的原則所以我們還是希望能夠維持現狀會比較好部長跟主委再給我30秒我覺得啦\n\n19\n00:06:52,728 --> 00:07:16,803\n你這個東西不能夠縣市長跟縣市議員跟這個等同看待我個人認為如果村里長的部分是有點道理的你與其後面的訴訟冗長然後有很多的東西村里長你要重新驗票其實我說真的兩個小時就可以完成了當然\n\n20\n00:07:19,184 --> 00:07:40,406\n我們相信選務人員選務人員他的數值都很高這個出錯的機會很少但這不影響公告的時間而且會同票數的整個選舉結果不會有幾個所以我個人覺得這個東西如果你以村里長的角度去看是合理的但是如果以總統\n\n21\n00:07:41,792 --> 00:07:46,716\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n\n22\n00:08:13,420 --> 00:08:25,351\n現行制度是先抽籤抽籤完了你不服氣再來驗票限制是這樣子修改是說不管你同不同意就是先驗票\n\n23\n00:08:26,428 --> 00:08:33,111\n二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n\n24\n00:08:56,261 --> 00:09:23,344\n主委我剛講的是村里長的部分或代表的部分我認同是要先驗票因為選舉人數不多嘛而且我們的選務人員就在那裡這個很重要這個對村里長來講很重要我跟你講這個很重要我認為真的是可以去改變與其後面的訴訟而且也不影響我們公告的時間我們公告的時間至少七天後\n\n25\n00:09:24,366 --> 00:09:38,113\n審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．\n\n26\n00:09:39,694 --> 00:10:02,213\n報告張委員您的說法可以商量但是村里長要先寄票重新寄票然後再公告當選那為什麼縣市議員、立法委員和總統也不按照這樣請相關回應用書面好不好所以最好是能夠保持一致的規定跟法律上的施行可能會比較公平我覺得這個可以討論我覺得我們好好討論\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8173\t13456\t我請李主委跟劉部長好請李主委劉部長好那個\n30990\t48765\t主委跟部長我們今天當然是主要的深水區這我想是選罷法我想請教一下李主委就人民的創制複決權等等的你覺得選罷法如果\n51066\t57491\t審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．\n79913\t106440\t選罷免的門檻各國規定的標準當然不同詳細的資料恐怕我們還必須要再做彙整我跟您講 全世界如果有這樣我個人所知道沒有說一定要比當選票數要多一票這個很奇怪那為什麼不多5%那為什麼要怎樣我覺得這個是大家可以好好的去探討的一個問題\n108716\t121050\t所以我會覺得說今天這個不是不能討論但是知識體大我覺得這麼一個影響人民他的罷免權\n122281\t141058\t審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人\n150458\t176166\t我認為有兩點可能大家必須要深入的來思考這樣子的修正是否合理第一個就是我一再的強調在投票的時間到真正罷免要投票的時間中間至少要經過一年半這一年半的時間民意有變化了人事有改變了所以你用\n176966\t204044\t一年半以前的民意要來否定一年半以後現在的民意這個是不合理的這是第一點那第二點就是選舉的時候跟罷免的時候他的投票率也好他的當選人的當選的席次也好他參選的人數也好這個基礎都不一樣的所以也會影響到得票數的多寡\n204784\t212068\t二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：\n232398\t235380\t選前民調公布日期在世界各國有沒有相同的規定?\n248524\t264851\t我們所瞭解的應該有啦,應該有,詳細的資料我們並沒有做收集跟整理。有啦,台灣在制定這個也是參考國外的啦,對不對?因為為什麼呢?這個叫做選前的寧靜。\n267677\t287452\t這是要讓選民知道他的訊息到底是真的還假的讓選民能夠去從眾多的訊息裡面去知道哪一個訊息是真的哪一個訊息是假的他才能夠去判斷他如何去準確的投票主委如果我們現在改成前三日\n288493\t317238\t那在三日前弄一些假訊息假民調你覺得選民有可能在這麼短的時間內去了解這個訊息是真的是假的嗎?主委所以我個人是認為啦國外的規定很多但我們台灣啊十天我覺得是比較剛好啦為什麼?我們兩千多萬人\n318137\t328835\t我們什麼樣的人都有那我們的訊息管道真的太多了還有對其他不友好的國家的認知作戰如果你在選前三天哇\n329841\t342444\t二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n357355\t365345\t同票數要先驗票然後再來做我不知道內政部跟主委你們的看法\n367093\t387137\t同票數現在是直接抽籤嘛那有人提議說同票數要先驗票之後再抽籤是 那我們會考量到說要公告這個當選人的名單因為你在重新驗票的時候不是我們所想像當中的那麼的簡單包括村里長也是一樣尤其村里長的差差額非常的小\n387877\t411591\t如果全國村里長一致在選舉的期間每個人都重新驗票的話恐怕會影響到地方選委會或是中央選委會要公告當選人名單因為他後面本來就有其他當選無效的這些訴訟的這些處罰的原則所以我們還是希望能夠維持現狀會比較好部長跟主委再給我30秒我覺得啦\n412728\t436803\t你這個東西不能夠縣市長跟縣市議員跟這個等同看待我個人認為如果村里長的部分是有點道理的你與其後面的訴訟冗長然後有很多的東西村里長你要重新驗票其實我說真的兩個小時就可以完成了當然\n439184\t460406\t我們相信選務人員選務人員他的數值都很高這個出錯的機會很少但這不影響公告的時間而且會同票數的整個選舉結果不會有幾個所以我個人覺得這個東西如果你以村里長的角度去看是合理的但是如果以總統\n461792\t466716\t二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n493420\t505351\t現行制度是先抽籤抽籤完了你不服氣再來驗票限制是這樣子修改是說不管你同不同意就是先驗票\n506428\t513111\t二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n536261\t563344\t主委我剛講的是村里長的部分或代表的部分我認同是要先驗票因為選舉人數不多嘛而且我們的選務人員就在那裡這個很重要這個對村里長來講很重要我跟你講這個很重要我認為真的是可以去改變與其後面的訴訟而且也不影響我們公告的時間我們公告的時間至少七天後\n564366\t578113\t審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．\n579694\t602213\t報告張委員您的說法可以商量但是村里長要先寄票重新寄票然後再公告當選那為什麼縣市議員、立法委員和總統也不按照這樣請相關回應用書面好不好所以最好是能夠保持一致的規定跟法律上的施行可能會比較公平我覺得這個可以討論我覺得我們好好討論\n","txt":"我請李主委跟劉部長好請李主委劉部長好那個\n主委跟部長我們今天當然是主要的深水區這我想是選罷法我想請教一下李主委就人民的創制複決權等等的你覺得選罷法如果\n審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．\n選罷免的門檻各國規定的標準當然不同詳細的資料恐怕我們還必須要再做彙整我跟您講 全世界如果有這樣我個人所知道沒有說一定要比當選票數要多一票這個很奇怪那為什麼不多5%那為什麼要怎樣我覺得這個是大家可以好好的去探討的一個問題\n所以我會覺得說今天這個不是不能討論但是知識體大我覺得這麼一個影響人民他的罷免權\n審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人\n我認為有兩點可能大家必須要深入的來思考這樣子的修正是否合理第一個就是我一再的強調在投票的時間到真正罷免要投票的時間中間至少要經過一年半這一年半的時間民意有變化了人事有改變了所以你用\n一年半以前的民意要來否定一年半以後現在的民意這個是不合理的這是第一點那第二點就是選舉的時候跟罷免的時候他的投票率也好他的當選人的當選的席次也好他參選的人數也好這個基礎都不一樣的所以也會影響到得票數的多寡\n二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：\n選前民調公布日期在世界各國有沒有相同的規定?\n我們所瞭解的應該有啦,應該有,詳細的資料我們並沒有做收集跟整理。有啦,台灣在制定這個也是參考國外的啦,對不對?因為為什麼呢?這個叫做選前的寧靜。\n這是要讓選民知道他的訊息到底是真的還假的讓選民能夠去從眾多的訊息裡面去知道哪一個訊息是真的哪一個訊息是假的他才能夠去判斷他如何去準確的投票主委如果我們現在改成前三日\n那在三日前弄一些假訊息假民調你覺得選民有可能在這麼短的時間內去了解這個訊息是真的是假的嗎?主委所以我個人是認為啦國外的規定很多但我們台灣啊十天我覺得是比較剛好啦為什麼?我們兩千多萬人\n我們什麼樣的人都有那我們的訊息管道真的太多了還有對其他不友好的國家的認知作戰如果你在選前三天哇\n二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n同票數要先驗票然後再來做我不知道內政部跟主委你們的看法\n同票數現在是直接抽籤嘛那有人提議說同票數要先驗票之後再抽籤是 那我們會考量到說要公告這個當選人的名單因為你在重新驗票的時候不是我們所想像當中的那麼的簡單包括村里長也是一樣尤其村里長的差差額非常的小\n如果全國村里長一致在選舉的期間每個人都重新驗票的話恐怕會影響到地方選委會或是中央選委會要公告當選人名單因為他後面本來就有其他當選無效的這些訴訟的這些處罰的原則所以我們還是希望能夠維持現狀會比較好部長跟主委再給我30秒我覺得啦\n你這個東西不能夠縣市長跟縣市議員跟這個等同看待我個人認為如果村里長的部分是有點道理的你與其後面的訴訟冗長然後有很多的東西村里長你要重新驗票其實我說真的兩個小時就可以完成了當然\n我們相信選務人員選務人員他的數值都很高這個出錯的機會很少但這不影響公告的時間而且會同票數的整個選舉結果不會有幾個所以我個人覺得這個東西如果你以村里長的角度去看是合理的但是如果以總統\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n現行制度是先抽籤抽籤完了你不服氣再來驗票限制是這樣子修改是說不管你同不同意就是先驗票\n二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n主委我剛講的是村里長的部分或代表的部分我認同是要先驗票因為選舉人數不多嘛而且我們的選務人員就在那裡這個很重要這個對村里長來講很重要我跟你講這個很重要我認為真的是可以去改變與其後面的訴訟而且也不影響我們公告的時間我們公告的時間至少七天後\n審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．\n報告張委員您的說法可以商量但是村里長要先寄票重新寄票然後再公告當選那為什麼縣市議員、立法委員和總統也不按照這樣請相關回應用書面好不好所以最好是能夠保持一致的規定跟法律上的施行可能會比較公平我覺得這個可以討論我覺得我們好好討論\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.173 --> 00:13.456\n我請李主委跟劉部長好請李主委劉部長好那個\n\n00:30.990 --> 00:48.765\n主委跟部長我們今天當然是主要的深水區這我想是選罷法我想請教一下李主委就人民的創制複決權等等的你覺得選罷法如果\n\n00:51.066 --> 00:57.491\n審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．\n\n01:19.913 --> 01:46.440\n選罷免的門檻各國規定的標準當然不同詳細的資料恐怕我們還必須要再做彙整我跟您講全世界如果有這樣我個人所知道沒有說一定要比當選票數要多一票這個很奇怪那為什麼不多5%那為什麼要怎樣我覺得這個是大家可以好好的去探討的一個問題\n\n01:48.716 --> 02:01.050\n所以我會覺得說今天這個不是不能討論但是知識體大我覺得這麼一個影響人民他的罷免權\n\n02:02.281 --> 02:21.058\n審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人\n\n02:30.458 --> 02:56.166\n我認為有兩點可能大家必須要深入的來思考這樣子的修正是否合理第一個就是我一再的強調在投票的時間到真正罷免要投票的時間中間至少要經過一年半這一年半的時間民意有變化了人事有改變了所以你用\n\n02:56.966 --> 03:24.044\n一年半以前的民意要來否定一年半以後現在的民意這個是不合理的這是第一點那第二點就是選舉的時候跟罷免的時候他的投票率也好他的當選人的當選的席次也好他參選的人數也好這個基礎都不一樣的所以也會影響到得票數的多寡\n\n03:24.784 --> 03:32.068\n二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：\n\n03:52.398 --> 03:55.380\n選前民調公布日期在世界各國有沒有相同的規定?\n\n04:08.524 --> 04:24.851\n我們所瞭解的應該有啦,應該有,詳細的資料我們並沒有做收集跟整理。有啦,台灣在制定這個也是參考國外的啦,對不對?因為為什麼呢?這個叫做選前的寧靜。\n\n04:27.677 --> 04:47.452\n這是要讓選民知道他的訊息到底是真的還假的讓選民能夠去從眾多的訊息裡面去知道哪一個訊息是真的哪一個訊息是假的他才能夠去判斷他如何去準確的投票主委如果我們現在改成前三日\n\n04:48.493 --> 05:17.238\n那在三日前弄一些假訊息假民調你覺得選民有可能在這麼短的時間內去了解這個訊息是真的是假的嗎?主委所以我個人是認為啦國外的規定很多但我們台灣啊十天我覺得是比較剛好啦為什麼?我們兩千多萬人\n\n05:18.137 --> 05:28.835\n我們什麼樣的人都有那我們的訊息管道真的太多了還有對其他不友好的國家的認知作戰如果你在選前三天哇\n\n05:29.841 --> 05:42.444\n二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n\n05:57.355 --> 06:05.345\n同票數要先驗票然後再來做我不知道內政部跟主委你們的看法\n\n06:07.093 --> 06:27.137\n同票數現在是直接抽籤嘛那有人提議說同票數要先驗票之後再抽籤是那我們會考量到說要公告這個當選人的名單因為你在重新驗票的時候不是我們所想像當中的那麼的簡單包括村里長也是一樣尤其村里長的差差額非常的小\n\n06:27.877 --> 06:51.591\n如果全國村里長一致在選舉的期間每個人都重新驗票的話恐怕會影響到地方選委會或是中央選委會要公告當選人名單因為他後面本來就有其他當選無效的這些訴訟的這些處罰的原則所以我們還是希望能夠維持現狀會比較好部長跟主委再給我30秒我覺得啦\n\n06:52.728 --> 07:16.803\n你這個東西不能夠縣市長跟縣市議員跟這個等同看待我個人認為如果村里長的部分是有點道理的你與其後面的訴訟冗長然後有很多的東西村里長你要重新驗票其實我說真的兩個小時就可以完成了當然\n\n07:19.184 --> 07:40.406\n我們相信選務人員選務人員他的數值都很高這個出錯的機會很少但這不影響公告的時間而且會同票數的整個選舉結果不會有幾個所以我個人覺得這個東西如果你以村里長的角度去看是合理的但是如果以總統\n\n07:41.792 --> 07:46.716\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n\n08:13.420 --> 08:25.351\n現行制度是先抽籤抽籤完了你不服氣再來驗票限制是這樣子修改是說不管你同不同意就是先驗票\n\n08:26.428 --> 08:33.111\n二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n\n08:56.261 --> 09:23.344\n主委我剛講的是村里長的部分或代表的部分我認同是要先驗票因為選舉人數不多嘛而且我們的選務人員就在那裡這個很重要這個對村里長來講很重要我跟你講這個很重要我認為真的是可以去改變與其後面的訴訟而且也不影響我們公告的時間我們公告的時間至少七天後\n\n09:24.366 --> 09:38.113\n審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．\n\n09:39.694 --> 10:02.213\n報告張委員您的說法可以商量但是村里長要先寄票重新寄票然後再公告當選那為什麼縣市議員、立法委員和總統也不按照這樣請相關回應用書面好不好所以最好是能夠保持一致的規定跟法律上的施行可能會比較公平我覺得這個可以討論我覺得我們好好討論\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.173,"end":13.456,"text":"我請李主委跟劉部長好請李主委劉部長好那個"},{"start":30.99,"end":48.765,"text":"主委跟部長我們今天當然是主要的深水區這我想是選罷法我想請教一下李主委就人民的創制複決權等等的你覺得選罷法如果"},{"start":51.066,"end":57.491,"text":"審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．"},{"start":79.913,"end":106.44,"text":"選罷免的門檻各國規定的標準當然不同詳細的資料恐怕我們還必須要再做彙整我跟您講 全世界如果有這樣我個人所知道沒有說一定要比當選票數要多一票這個很奇怪那為什麼不多5%那為什麼要怎樣我覺得這個是大家可以好好的去探討的一個問題"},{"start":108.716,"end":121.05,"text":"所以我會覺得說今天這個不是不能討論但是知識體大我覺得這麼一個影響人民他的罷免權"},{"start":122.281,"end":141.058,"text":"審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．公職人"},{"start":150.458,"end":176.166,"text":"我認為有兩點可能大家必須要深入的來思考這樣子的修正是否合理第一個就是我一再的強調在投票的時間到真正罷免要投票的時間中間至少要經過一年半這一年半的時間民意有變化了人事有改變了所以你用"},{"start":176.966,"end":204.044,"text":"一年半以前的民意要來否定一年半以後現在的民意這個是不合理的這是第一點那第二點就是選舉的時候跟罷免的時候他的投票率也好他的當選人的當選的席次也好他參選的人數也好這個基礎都不一樣的所以也會影響到得票數的多寡"},{"start":204.784,"end":212.068,"text":"二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案："},{"start":232.398,"end":235.38,"text":"選前民調公布日期在世界各國有沒有相同的規定?"},{"start":248.524,"end":264.851,"text":"我們所瞭解的應該有啦,應該有,詳細的資料我們並沒有做收集跟整理。有啦,台灣在制定這個也是參考國外的啦,對不對?因為為什麼呢?這個叫做選前的寧靜。"},{"start":267.677,"end":287.452,"text":"這是要讓選民知道他的訊息到底是真的還假的讓選民能夠去從眾多的訊息裡面去知道哪一個訊息是真的哪一個訊息是假的他才能夠去判斷他如何去準確的投票主委如果我們現在改成前三日"},{"start":288.493,"end":317.238,"text":"那在三日前弄一些假訊息假民調你覺得選民有可能在這麼短的時間內去了解這個訊息是真的是假的嗎?主委所以我個人是認為啦國外的規定很多但我們台灣啊十天我覺得是比較剛好啦為什麼?我們兩千多萬人"},{"start":318.137,"end":328.835,"text":"我們什麼樣的人都有那我們的訊息管道真的太多了還有對其他不友好的國家的認知作戰如果你在選前三天哇"},{"start":329.841,"end":342.444,"text":"二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員蘇清泉等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":357.355,"end":365.345,"text":"同票數要先驗票然後再來做我不知道內政部跟主委你們的看法"},{"start":367.093,"end":387.137,"text":"同票數現在是直接抽籤嘛那有人提議說同票數要先驗票之後再抽籤是 那我們會考量到說要公告這個當選人的名單因為你在重新驗票的時候不是我們所想像當中的那麼的簡單包括村里長也是一樣尤其村里長的差差額非常的小"},{"start":387.877,"end":411.591,"text":"如果全國村里長一致在選舉的期間每個人都重新驗票的話恐怕會影響到地方選委會或是中央選委會要公告當選人名單因為他後面本來就有其他當選無效的這些訴訟的這些處罰的原則所以我們還是希望能夠維持現狀會比較好部長跟主委再給我30秒我覺得啦"},{"start":412.728,"end":436.803,"text":"你這個東西不能夠縣市長跟縣市議員跟這個等同看待我個人認為如果村里長的部分是有點道理的你與其後面的訴訟冗長然後有很多的東西村里長你要重新驗票其實我說真的兩個小時就可以完成了當然"},{"start":439.184,"end":460.406,"text":"我們相信選務人員選務人員他的數值都很高這個出錯的機會很少但這不影響公告的時間而且會同票數的整個選舉結果不會有幾個所以我個人覺得這個東西如果你以村里長的角度去看是合理的但是如果以總統"},{"start":461.792,"end":466.716,"text":"二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":493.42,"end":505.351,"text":"現行制度是先抽籤抽籤完了你不服氣再來驗票限制是這樣子修改是說不管你同不同意就是先驗票"},{"start":506.428,"end":513.111,"text":"二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":536.261,"end":563.344,"text":"主委我剛講的是村里長的部分或代表的部分我認同是要先驗票因為選舉人數不多嘛而且我們的選務人員就在那裡這個很重要這個對村里長來講很重要我跟你講這個很重要我認為真的是可以去改變與其後面的訴訟而且也不影響我們公告的時間我們公告的時間至少七天後"},{"start":564.366,"end":578.113,"text":"審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．"},{"start":579.694,"end":602.213,"text":"報告張委員您的說法可以商量但是村里長要先寄票重新寄票然後再公告當選那為什麼縣市議員、立法委員和總統也不按照這樣請相關回應用書面好不好所以最好是能夠保持一致的規定跟法律上的施行可能會比較公平我覺得這個可以討論我覺得我們好好討論"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":370,"blocks":[["張委員宏陸：（9時52分）我請李主委跟劉部長。"],["主席：好，請李主委、劉部長。"],["張委員宏陸：主委跟部長，我們今天主要的深水區，我想就是選罷法，請教一下李主委，就人民的創制、複決權等等，你覺得如果把選罷法變成一定要絕對的多數，如果要比當選的票數多1票的話，那幾乎等於是絕對的多數了，在世界各國有這樣子的規定嗎？有很多嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：目前我們所了解的狀況是沒有這樣子的相關規定。"],["張委員宏陸：沒有？"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["張委員宏陸：那一般的世界各國大概都是怎麼樣的規定？"],["李主任委員進勇：罷免的門檻，各國規定的標準當然不同，詳細的資料恐怕我們還必須要再做彙整。"],["張委員宏陸：好，我跟你講，全世界如果有這樣……我個人所知道沒有說一定要比當選票數要多1票，這個很奇怪，那為什麼不多5%？為什麼要這樣？我覺得這個是大家可以好好的去探討的一個問題，所以我會覺得說，今天這個不是不能討論，但是茲事體大，我覺得這麼一個影響人民罷免權的法令改變，我覺得這個要多多討論。我記得我們上一次在修選罷法的時候，我們是經過多少次的討論，然後大家討論很多次才定出了這一個，所以我個人覺得這個是對人民權利非常重要的，應該要好好討論。主委，你的看法呢？"],["李主任委員進勇：我認為有兩點可能大家必須要深入來思考這樣子的修正是否合理，第一個就是我一再的強調，在投票的時間到真正罷免要投票的時間，中間至少要經過一年半，這一年半的時間民意有變化了、人事有改變了，所以你用一年半以前的民意要來否定一年半以後現在的民意，這個是不合理的，這是第一點。那第二點就是選舉的時候跟罷免的時候，它的投票率也好，當選人的當選席次也好，參選的人數也好，這個基礎都是不一樣的，所以也會影響到得票數的多寡，你用基礎不一樣而算出來的得票數要來互相比較，因為基礎不同，這個比較也變成是沒有意義的一種比較，所以我們不認為用這樣子的方式，罷免的得票數一定要高於當初一年半以前當選的得票數，這樣子的修改方向是值得參採。"],["張委員宏陸：另外，今天還有其他委員提案，就是選前民調公布的日期，主委，世界各國有沒有相同的規定？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們所了解的應該有啦！應該有，詳細的資料我們並沒有做蒐集跟整理。"],["張委員宏陸：有啦！臺灣在制定這個也是參考國外的，對不對？因為為什麼？這個叫做選前的寧靜，這是要讓選民知道他的訊息到底是真的還假的，讓選民能夠從眾多的訊息裡面去知道哪一個訊息是真的、哪一個訊息是假的，他才能夠去判斷他如何去準確的投票。主委，如果我們現在改成前3日，那在3日前弄一些假訊息、假民調，你覺得選民有可能在這麼短的時間內去了解這個訊息是真的、是假的嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：來不及分辨，時間太緊迫。"],["張委員宏陸：對啊！主委，所以我個人是認為國外的規定很多，但我們臺灣的10天，我覺得是比較剛好啦！為什麼？我們兩千多萬人，我們什麼樣的人都有，那我們的訊息管道真的太多了，還有其他不友好國家的認知作戰，如果你在選前3天，哇！這個認知作戰或什麼給你一些假的訊息，我跟你講，臺灣絕對會被這樣子搞垮，所以我個人還是認為選前10天是一個比較好的時間點，不知道主委你你的看法？"],["李主任委員進勇：我非常贊成召委的意見。"],["張委員宏陸：好。另外，也有人有提到說，如果同票數要先驗票，然後再來做……我不知道內政部跟主委你們的看法，同票數現在是直接抽籤嘛！"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["張委員宏陸：那也有人提到說同票數要先驗票之後再抽籤。"],["劉部長世芳：是，那我們會考量到要公告當選人的名單，因為你在重新驗票的時候，不是我們所想像當中的那麼簡單，包括村里長也是一樣，尤其村里長的差額非常的小，如果全國村里長一致在選舉的期間，每個人都重新驗票的話，恐怕會影響到地方選委會或是中央選委會要公告當選人名單，因為它後面本來就有其他當選無效的這些訴訟及處罰的原則，所以我們還是希望能夠維持現狀會比較好。"],["張委員宏陸：再給我30秒。部長跟主委，我覺得這個東西不能夠將縣市長跟縣市議員等同看待，我個人認為如果村里長的部分是有點道理的，你與其後面的訴訟冗長，然後又有很多的東西，村里長你要重新驗票，其實我說真的，兩個小時就可以完成了。當然我們相信選務人員，選務人員的素質都很高，出錯的機會很少，但這不影響公告的時間，而且會同票數的，整個選舉結果不會有幾個，所以我個人覺得這個東西如果你以村里長的角度去看是合理的，但是如果以總統、以直轄市市長來看，那就不一樣了，所以我覺得這個部分可以去思考村里長要不要這樣，那其他的我們往後再看，你不要村里長每次……最多抽籤的都是村里長或鄉鎮代表，其實選舉人數都不多，可以很快處理，你們的看法呢？"],["主席：多一分半了。"],["張委員宏陸：讓我……"],["李主任委員進勇：這個現制……"],["張委員宏陸：這個很重要，所以我要問一下。"],["李主任委員進勇：現行的制度是先抽籤，抽籤完了，你不服氣，再來驗票，現制是這樣子。"],["張委員宏陸：對呀，所以我說要不要改？"],["李主任委員進勇：修改是不管你同不同意，就是先驗票，驗票完了，還是同票的，然後才抽籤。"],["張委員宏陸：對。"],["李主任委員進勇：如果是先抽籤，大家都沒話講，就不必去動到驗票，這樣可以節省很多的人力、物力，所以一樣是可以解決問題，有比較直接的，可以減少浪費人力、物力的現行制度，我們覺得還值得維持。"],["張委員宏陸：主委，我剛剛講的是村里長的部分或代表的部分，我認同要先驗票，因為選舉人數不多，而且我們的選務人員就在那裡……"],["主席：謝謝，謝謝張召委，多3分鐘了。"],["張委員宏陸：這個很重要，這個對村里長來講很重要。我跟你講，這個很重要，我認為真的是可以去改變，與其後面的訴訟……而且也不影響我們公告的時間，我們公告的時間至少7天後，對不對？與其村里長……以候選人的角度，你要讓我去訴訟，讓我去那個，我們辦選舉最重要的就是公平，我覺得這是一個公平的精神。"],["劉部長世芳：報告張委員，您的說法可以商量，但是村里長要先重新計票，然後再公告當選，為什麼縣市議員、立法委員、總統不按照這樣的程序……"],["主席：請相關回應用書面，好不好？我們今天發言的人很多，張召委。"],["劉部長世芳：所以最好是能夠保持一致的規定跟法律上的施行，可能會比較公平。"],["張委員宏陸：我覺得這個可以討論，我覺得我們好好討論。"],["主席：謝謝。","請麥玉珍委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":126,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-14","speakers":["徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","黃捷","王美惠","張宏陸","高金素梅","李坤城","蔡易餘","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","黃建賓","張智倫","吳琪銘","牛煦庭","吳沛憶","陳菁徽","張嘉郡","翁曉玲","張啓楷","洪孟楷","徐巧芯","林楚茵","吳思瑤","郭國文","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林俊憲","張雅琳","林思銘","黃秀芳","許智傑","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","王義川","莊瑞雄","廖先翔","林宜瑾","林淑芬","賴惠員","傅崐萁","陳素月","吳秉叡","王正旭","徐富癸","邱志偉","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","郭昱晴","林月琴","邱議瑩","李昆澤","葉元之","陳瑩","劉建國","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-05"],"gazette_id":"1140201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於中央選舉委員會及所屬單位預算；二、審查「公職人員\n選舉罷免法」修正草案，計六案：(一)審查委員楊曜等17人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七\n條及第六十九條條文修正草案」案、(二)審查委員蘇清泉等23人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第六\n十九條條文修正草案」案、(三)審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第五十三條條\n文修正草案」案、(四)審查委員陳冠廷等25人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第五十二條條文修正草\n案」案、(五)審查委員許宇甄等39人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第七十五條及第九十條條文修正\n草案」案、(六)審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第三十二條及第四十三條條文修\n正草案」案","agenda_id":"1140201_00001"}}}