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00:00:22,181\n好我們現在是不是有請我們李主委跟我們內政部我們留部長好請李主委還有部長對\n\n2\n00:00:29,438 --> 00:00:49,348\n我先就教李主委,主委這個關於今天選罷法的這個修正事實上我們現在選罷法在草野協商甚至院會可能就要面對的一個表決就是會這個提案連署的要附上身份證的影本\n\n3\n00:00:50,368 --> 00:01:09,022\n基本上這個對於未來要發動罷免那就有一個難度已經存在了因為要附上身份證附上身份證這件事情我們事實上在草野協商大家都有充分的論述基本上你要叫人民為了要罷免某個候選人某個民意代表\n\n4\n00:01:10,663 --> 00:01:30,170\n他要提出他的身份證第一他擔心這個身份證可能會被詐欺或或者是他覺得他身份證他的個資交出來對他來說是有疑慮的所以基本上在這樣的一個前提之下即罷免的一個連署就已經變得非常高的一個門檻主委你認為沒錯吧是\n\n5\n00:01:33,111 --> 00:02:01,240\n所以在這段時間來事實上我們一直在思考用身分證的一個影本那算是國民黨藍白現在不斷地去講說他們認為罷免如果太腐爛或大罷免不好所以他們要把這個身分證的條件影本已經放在那結果現在我們委員會又再處理又要再加嚴一次\n\n6\n00:02:02,641 --> 00:02:07,484\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．\n\n7\n00:02:31,018 --> 00:02:58,893\n那我們現在我們在現場我們黃婕委員她也面對過當時國民黨的惡霸投票率是41.54那我們陳柏惟基進黨的51.72投票率比較高那同樣當時林昶佐中正萬華林昶佐41.93的投票率謝國良最近發生的是50.44的投票率事實上以這幾次來看\n\n8\n00:03:00,193 --> 00:03:24,208\n這樣的投票率沒有一次大於真正在普選不管是立委也好不管是縣市長也好不管是議員也好投票率都大於我剛剛所念的數字沒有錯吧是的是啊所以這就呈現一個矛盾了那既然在普選的時候投票率那麼高在罷免的時候明顯投票率就不會到達那樣的一個康章那現在\n\n9\n00:03:28,115 --> 00:03:43,341\n國民黨這個版本,要把它賦予說你要大於當選的投票數,哇,這個門檻下去,我看要罷免都沒說了啦,大概是不太可能了。我們的選罷法並沒有限制罷免投票率的門檻。\n\n10\n00:03:45,031 --> 00:04:02,223\n那所以罷免的投票率即便是百分之四十甚至於低於百分之四十我們不能夠因此而否定它的效力啦當然啦所以既然是有效的一個罷免的投票率\n\n11\n00:04:02,944 --> 00:04:17,747\n二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：\n\n12\n00:04:31,829 --> 00:04:34,573\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n\n13\n00:04:48,132 --> 00:05:09,935\n是跟人民就是一個契約關係這樣的一個契約發動權是在人民的手上人民給你這個權利讓你有機會擔任民意代表當然透過罷免就是把就是把跟你的契約把它收回然後在大法官4至499號的時候講得很清楚大法官4至499號是國大自己言論\n\n14\n00:05:11,036 --> 00:05:14,198\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n\n15\n00:05:41,196 --> 00:05:50,402\n審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。\n\n16\n00:06:08,032 --> 00:06:14,716\n審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．\n\n17\n00:06:35,449 --> 00:07:02,782\n請你尊重!請你尊重啦!不是!時間到了!不是!不是吧!時間到了!時間到了!不是啦!所以你不要浪費!沒有!後面那麼多個委員!我們一定要堅持!時間到了!請你回座!請你回座!請你回座!\n\n18\n00:07:04,603 --> 00:07:08,887\n請你回座請你回座時間到沒有請你回座請你回座請你回座好不好\n\n19\n00:07:17,643 --> 00:07:18,724\n本席宣布休息。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n15775\t22181\t好 我們現在是不是有請我們李主委跟我們內政部 我們留部長好 請李主委還有部長 對\n29438\t49348\t我先就教李主委,主委這個關於今天選罷法的這個修正事實上我們現在選罷法在草野協商甚至院會可能就要面對的一個表決就是會這個提案連署的要附上身份證的影本\n50368\t69022\t基本上這個對於未來要發動罷免那就有一個難度已經存在了因為要附上身份證附上身份證這件事情我們事實上在草野協商大家都有充分的論述基本上你要叫人民為了要罷免某個候選人某個民意代表\n70663\t90170\t他要提出他的身份證第一他擔心這個身份證可能會被詐欺或或者是他覺得他身份證他的個資交出來對他來說是有疑慮的所以基本上在這樣的一個前提之下即罷免的一個連署就已經變得非常高的一個門檻主委你認為沒錯吧是\n93111\t121240\t所以在這段時間來事實上我們一直在思考用身分證的一個影本那算是國民黨藍白現在不斷地去講說他們認為罷免如果太腐爛或大罷免不好所以他們要把這個身分證的條件影本已經放在那結果現在我們委員會又再處理又要再加嚴一次\n122641\t127484\t二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．\n151018\t178893\t那我們現在我們在現場我們黃婕委員她也面對過當時國民黨的惡霸投票率是41.54那我們陳柏惟基進黨的51.72投票率比較高那同樣當時林昶佐中正萬華林昶佐41.93的投票率謝國良最近發生的是50.44的投票率事實上以這幾次來看\n180193\t204208\t這樣的投票率沒有一次大於真正在普選不管是立委也好 不管是縣市長也好 不管是議員也好投票率都大於我剛剛所念的數字 沒有錯吧是的是啊 所以這就呈現一個矛盾了那既然在普選的時候投票率那麼高在罷免的時候明顯投票率就不會到達那樣的一個康章那現在\n208115\t223341\t國民黨這個版本,要把它賦予說你要大於當選的投票數,哇,這個門檻下去,我看要罷免都沒說了啦,大概是不太可能了。我們的選罷法並沒有限制罷免投票率的門檻。\n225031\t242223\t那所以罷免的投票率即便是百分之四十甚至於低於百分之四十我們不能夠因此而否定它的效力啦當然啦所以既然是有效的一個罷免的投票率\n242944\t257747\t二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：\n271829\t274573\t二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n288132\t309935\t是跟人民就是一個契約關係這樣的一個契約發動權是在人民的手上人民給你這個權利讓你有機會擔任民意代表當然透過罷免就是把就是把跟你的契約把它收回然後在大法官4至499號的時候講得很清楚大法官4至499號是國大自己言論\n311036\t314198\t二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n341196\t350402\t審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。\n368032\t374716\t審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．\n395449\t422782\t請你尊重!請你尊重啦!不是!時間到了!不是!不是吧!時間到了!時間到了!不是啦!所以你不要浪費!沒有!後面那麼多個委員!我們一定要堅持!時間到了!請你回座!請你回座!請你回座!\n424603\t428887\t請你回座 請你回座 時間到沒有 請你回座請你回座請你回座 好不好\n437643\t438724\t本席宣布休息。\n","txt":"好 我們現在是不是有請我們李主委跟我們內政部 我們留部長好 請李主委還有部長 對\n我先就教李主委,主委這個關於今天選罷法的這個修正事實上我們現在選罷法在草野協商甚至院會可能就要面對的一個表決就是會這個提案連署的要附上身份證的影本\n基本上這個對於未來要發動罷免那就有一個難度已經存在了因為要附上身份證附上身份證這件事情我們事實上在草野協商大家都有充分的論述基本上你要叫人民為了要罷免某個候選人某個民意代表\n他要提出他的身份證第一他擔心這個身份證可能會被詐欺或或者是他覺得他身份證他的個資交出來對他來說是有疑慮的所以基本上在這樣的一個前提之下即罷免的一個連署就已經變得非常高的一個門檻主委你認為沒錯吧是\n所以在這段時間來事實上我們一直在思考用身分證的一個影本那算是國民黨藍白現在不斷地去講說他們認為罷免如果太腐爛或大罷免不好所以他們要把這個身分證的條件影本已經放在那結果現在我們委員會又再處理又要再加嚴一次\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．\n那我們現在我們在現場我們黃婕委員她也面對過當時國民黨的惡霸投票率是41.54那我們陳柏惟基進黨的51.72投票率比較高那同樣當時林昶佐中正萬華林昶佐41.93的投票率謝國良最近發生的是50.44的投票率事實上以這幾次來看\n這樣的投票率沒有一次大於真正在普選不管是立委也好 不管是縣市長也好 不管是議員也好投票率都大於我剛剛所念的數字 沒有錯吧是的是啊 所以這就呈現一個矛盾了那既然在普選的時候投票率那麼高在罷免的時候明顯投票率就不會到達那樣的一個康章那現在\n國民黨這個版本,要把它賦予說你要大於當選的投票數,哇,這個門檻下去,我看要罷免都沒說了啦,大概是不太可能了。我們的選罷法並沒有限制罷免投票率的門檻。\n那所以罷免的投票率即便是百分之四十甚至於低於百分之四十我們不能夠因此而否定它的效力啦當然啦所以既然是有效的一個罷免的投票率\n二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n是跟人民就是一個契約關係這樣的一個契約發動權是在人民的手上人民給你這個權利讓你有機會擔任民意代表當然透過罷免就是把就是把跟你的契約把它收回然後在大法官4至499號的時候講得很清楚大法官4至499號是國大自己言論\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。\n審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．\n請你尊重!請你尊重啦!不是!時間到了!不是!不是吧!時間到了!時間到了!不是啦!所以你不要浪費!沒有!後面那麼多個委員!我們一定要堅持!時間到了!請你回座!請你回座!請你回座!\n請你回座 請你回座 時間到沒有 請你回座請你回座請你回座 好不好\n本席宣布休息。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:15.775 --> 00:22.181\n好我們現在是不是有請我們李主委跟我們內政部我們留部長好請李主委還有部長對\n\n00:29.438 --> 00:49.348\n我先就教李主委,主委這個關於今天選罷法的這個修正事實上我們現在選罷法在草野協商甚至院會可能就要面對的一個表決就是會這個提案連署的要附上身份證的影本\n\n00:50.368 --> 01:09.022\n基本上這個對於未來要發動罷免那就有一個難度已經存在了因為要附上身份證附上身份證這件事情我們事實上在草野協商大家都有充分的論述基本上你要叫人民為了要罷免某個候選人某個民意代表\n\n01:10.663 --> 01:30.170\n他要提出他的身份證第一他擔心這個身份證可能會被詐欺或或者是他覺得他身份證他的個資交出來對他來說是有疑慮的所以基本上在這樣的一個前提之下即罷免的一個連署就已經變得非常高的一個門檻主委你認為沒錯吧是\n\n01:33.111 --> 02:01.240\n所以在這段時間來事實上我們一直在思考用身分證的一個影本那算是國民黨藍白現在不斷地去講說他們認為罷免如果太腐爛或大罷免不好所以他們要把這個身分證的條件影本已經放在那結果現在我們委員會又再處理又要再加嚴一次\n\n02:02.641 --> 02:07.484\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．\n\n02:31.018 --> 02:58.893\n那我們現在我們在現場我們黃婕委員她也面對過當時國民黨的惡霸投票率是41.54那我們陳柏惟基進黨的51.72投票率比較高那同樣當時林昶佐中正萬華林昶佐41.93的投票率謝國良最近發生的是50.44的投票率事實上以這幾次來看\n\n03:00.193 --> 03:24.208\n這樣的投票率沒有一次大於真正在普選不管是立委也好不管是縣市長也好不管是議員也好投票率都大於我剛剛所念的數字沒有錯吧是的是啊所以這就呈現一個矛盾了那既然在普選的時候投票率那麼高在罷免的時候明顯投票率就不會到達那樣的一個康章那現在\n\n03:28.115 --> 03:43.341\n國民黨這個版本,要把它賦予說你要大於當選的投票數,哇,這個門檻下去,我看要罷免都沒說了啦,大概是不太可能了。我們的選罷法並沒有限制罷免投票率的門檻。\n\n03:45.031 --> 04:02.223\n那所以罷免的投票率即便是百分之四十甚至於低於百分之四十我們不能夠因此而否定它的效力啦當然啦所以既然是有效的一個罷免的投票率\n\n04:02.944 --> 04:17.747\n二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：\n\n04:31.829 --> 04:34.573\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n\n04:48.132 --> 05:09.935\n是跟人民就是一個契約關係這樣的一個契約發動權是在人民的手上人民給你這個權利讓你有機會擔任民意代表當然透過罷免就是把就是把跟你的契約把它收回然後在大法官4至499號的時候講得很清楚大法官4至499號是國大自己言論\n\n05:11.036 --> 05:14.198\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n\n05:41.196 --> 05:50.402\n審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。\n\n06:08.032 --> 06:14.716\n審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．\n\n06:35.449 --> 07:02.782\n請你尊重!請你尊重啦!不是!時間到了!不是!不是吧!時間到了!時間到了!不是啦!所以你不要浪費!沒有!後面那麼多個委員!我們一定要堅持!時間到了!請你回座!請你回座!請你回座!\n\n07:04.603 --> 07:08.887\n請你回座請你回座時間到沒有請你回座請你回座請你回座好不好\n\n07:17.643 --> 07:18.724\n本席宣布休息。\n\n","segments":[{"start":15.775,"end":22.181,"text":"好 我們現在是不是有請我們李主委跟我們內政部 我們留部長好 請李主委還有部長 對"},{"start":29.438,"end":49.348,"text":"我先就教李主委,主委這個關於今天選罷法的這個修正事實上我們現在選罷法在草野協商甚至院會可能就要面對的一個表決就是會這個提案連署的要附上身份證的影本"},{"start":50.368,"end":69.022,"text":"基本上這個對於未來要發動罷免那就有一個難度已經存在了因為要附上身份證附上身份證這件事情我們事實上在草野協商大家都有充分的論述基本上你要叫人民為了要罷免某個候選人某個民意代表"},{"start":70.663,"end":90.17,"text":"他要提出他的身份證第一他擔心這個身份證可能會被詐欺或或者是他覺得他身份證他的個資交出來對他來說是有疑慮的所以基本上在這樣的一個前提之下即罷免的一個連署就已經變得非常高的一個門檻主委你認為沒錯吧是"},{"start":93.111,"end":121.24,"text":"所以在這段時間來事實上我們一直在思考用身分證的一個影本那算是國民黨藍白現在不斷地去講說他們認為罷免如果太腐爛或大罷免不好所以他們要把這個身分證的條件影本已經放在那結果現在我們委員會又再處理又要再加嚴一次"},{"start":122.641,"end":127.484,"text":"二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．"},{"start":151.018,"end":178.893,"text":"那我們現在我們在現場我們黃婕委員她也面對過當時國民黨的惡霸投票率是41.54那我們陳柏惟基進黨的51.72投票率比較高那同樣當時林昶佐中正萬華林昶佐41.93的投票率謝國良最近發生的是50.44的投票率事實上以這幾次來看"},{"start":180.193,"end":204.208,"text":"這樣的投票率沒有一次大於真正在普選不管是立委也好 不管是縣市長也好 不管是議員也好投票率都大於我剛剛所念的數字 沒有錯吧是的是啊 所以這就呈現一個矛盾了那既然在普選的時候投票率那麼高在罷免的時候明顯投票率就不會到達那樣的一個康章那現在"},{"start":208.115,"end":223.341,"text":"國民黨這個版本,要把它賦予說你要大於當選的投票數,哇,這個門檻下去,我看要罷免都沒說了啦,大概是不太可能了。我們的選罷法並沒有限制罷免投票率的門檻。"},{"start":225.031,"end":242.223,"text":"那所以罷免的投票率即便是百分之四十甚至於低於百分之四十我們不能夠因此而否定它的效力啦當然啦所以既然是有效的一個罷免的投票率"},{"start":242.944,"end":257.747,"text":"二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案： 公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案："},{"start":271.829,"end":274.573,"text":"二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":288.132,"end":309.935,"text":"是跟人民就是一個契約關係這樣的一個契約發動權是在人民的手上人民給你這個權利讓你有機會擔任民意代表當然透過罷免就是把就是把跟你的契約把它收回然後在大法官4至499號的時候講得很清楚大法官4至499號是國大自己言論"},{"start":311.036,"end":314.198,"text":"二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":341.196,"end":350.402,"text":"審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。二、審查委員楊曜等17年度中央政府總預算案。"},{"start":368.032,"end":374.716,"text":"審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．"},{"start":395.449,"end":422.782,"text":"請你尊重!請你尊重啦!不是!時間到了!不是!不是吧!時間到了!時間到了!不是啦!所以你不要浪費!沒有!後面那麼多個委員!我們一定要堅持!時間到了!請你回座!請你回座!請你回座!"},{"start":424.603,"end":428.887,"text":"請你回座 請你回座 時間到沒有 請你回座請你回座請你回座 好不好"},{"start":437.643,"end":438.724,"text":"本席宣布休息。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":798,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（11時37分）好，有請李主委跟內政部劉部長。"],["主席（徐委員欣瑩）：好，請李主委還有部長。"],["蔡委員易餘：我先就教李主委，主委，關於今天選罷法的修正，事實上，現在選罷法在朝野協商甚至院會可能就要面對表決，就是提案連署要附上身分證的影本，基本上，這樣未來要發動罷免就有一個難度存在了，因為要附上身分證，那附上身分證這件事情，事實上在朝野協商大家都有充分的論述，基本上，你要求人民為了罷免某個民意代表就要拿出他的身分證，第一，他會擔心身分證可能會被用來詐欺或者是他覺得把身分證交出來，對他來說在個資保護上是有疑慮的。所以基本上在這樣的前提之下，罷免的連署就已經變成有一個非常高的門檻，主委，你認為沒錯吧？"],["李主任委員進勇：是的。"],["蔡委員易餘：在過去這段時間以來，事實上，我們一直在思考，要拿出身分證的影本，國民黨藍白現在不斷的講，他們認為罷免太浮濫或大罷免不好，所以他們要把這個身分證影本的條件放在那裡，結果現在我們委員會處理的時候又要再加嚴一次，又要再把它升高，說要罷免的同意票數要大於當選的票數，基本上，以這樣來看的話，剛剛是國民黨自己講到韓國瑜，不過韓國瑜是一個案例，但是我們知道，如果以近年的罷免案來講，包括桃園曾經有過我們民進黨的同志王浩宇，他當時的投票率是28.14%，那我們現在在現場的黃捷委員也面對過當時國民黨的惡罷，投票率是41.54%，那我們基進黨的陳柏惟是51.72%，投票率比較高，同樣的，當時中正、萬華選區的林昶佐是41.93%的投票率，最近發生的謝國樑是50.44%的投票率。事實上，以這幾次來看，這樣的投票率沒有一次大於真正在普選時的投票率，不管是立委也好，不管是縣市長也好，不管是議員也好，投票率都大於我剛剛所念的數字，沒有錯吧？"],["李主任委員進勇：是的。"],["蔡委員易餘：是啊！所以這就呈現一個矛盾，既然在普選的時候投票率那麼高，在罷免的時候，明顯投票率就不會到達那樣的一個「坎站」。現在國民黨這個版本要求要大於當選時的得票數，這個門檻一訂下去，我看以後要罷免都不用說了，大概是不太可能了！"],["李主任委員進勇：我們的選罷法並沒有限制罷免投票率的門檻，所以罷免的投票率即便是40%甚至低於40%，我們不能夠因此而否定它的效力。"],["蔡委員易餘：當然啦！"],["李主任委員進勇：既然是一個有效的罷免的投票率，即使在選舉的時候有比較高的投票率，你不能夠因為這邊的罷免投票率比較低，就硬要把那邊一年半以前的投票率、得票數拿來強壓在罷免的時候……"],["蔡委員易餘：現在要發動罷免的時候，你把當時的一個條件變成現在的一個障礙、一個門檻。"],["李主任委員進勇：在當初投票贊成的人也許現在已經流到投票贊成罷免的這一邊了，所以不能用這樣子來比。"],["蔡委員易餘：是，主委……我的時間怎麼這麼短？"],["主席：對，就是這樣。"],["蔡委員易餘：沒有啦！我還沒說到重點。"],["主席：因為今天有很多人要發言。"],["蔡委員易餘：主委，我現在要強調的就是……"],["主席：請把握時間。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，我把握時間。主委，我現在要強調的就是說，事實上，對每一個民意代表來講，我們透過選舉，然後我們當選，跟人民之間就是一個契約關係，這樣的一個契約發動權是在人民的手上，人民給你這個權力，讓你有機會擔任民意代表，當然透過罷免，就是把跟你的契約收回，然後大法官釋字第499號講得很清楚……"],["主席：謝謝，請簡短。"],["蔡委員易餘：大法官釋字第499號是國大自己延任，而且國大自己延任是怎樣？是用修憲，當時的國民大會代表是修憲自己延任，結果大法官說你利用修憲的程序去增加自己的任期，這樣是違憲的，所以必須要從下一屆開始。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["蔡委員易餘：主委，這是釋字第499號，那同樣的……"],["李主任委員進勇：其實……"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["蔡委員易餘：我們在這次的罷免，我們這樣自己把自己要被罷免的這個難度來提高的話，是不是同樣應該是屬於涉己事件，所以必須要下一屆來實施的狀況？"],["主席：謝謝蔡易餘委員。"],["李主任委員進勇：我們認為即便是下一屆都不應該啦！"],["主席：好，謝謝主委。"],["李主任委員進勇：因為這個立論是有問題的，如果用票數來做比較，臺灣會創下全世界獨一無二的罷免資格。"],["蔡委員易餘：獨一無二嘛！"],["李主任委員進勇：獨一無二。"],["蔡委員易餘：所以主委你講的就是罷免應該要有基本的讓人民可以行使的門檻存在……"],["主席：謝謝蔡易餘委員，蔡易餘委員，請您尊重好不好？"],["蔡委員易餘：我知道啦……"],["主席：謝謝，本席到其他委員會，如果發言時間是4分鐘，我4分鐘一到也就停止發言了。"],["蔡委員易餘：可是昨天黃國昌委員講了15分鐘。"],["主席：那是因為在他後面沒有人了，你現在後面還有一堆人，後面都是貴黨的委員，昨天後面沒有什麼人了，好不好？"],["蔡委員易餘：我再講一下……"],["主席：不是啦！真的請你尊重，請你尊重啦！請你尊重，請你尊重啦！"],["蔡委員易餘：讓我收尾一下。"],["主席：不是，時間到了！"],["蔡委員易餘：就是收尾而已。"],["主席：不是，時間到了！時間到了！"],["王委員美惠：給他1分鐘收尾一下。"],["主席：不是，時間到了！"],["蔡委員易餘：這樣耗在這裡，反而浪費時間。"],["主席：所以你不要浪費時間。"],["蔡委員易餘：就讓我把問題問完。"],["主席：沒有，後面還有那麼多個委員，我們一定要堅持。"],["王委員美惠：就給他1分鐘啊！"],["蔡委員易餘：你給我的時間那麼短，根本就問不到東西。"],["王委員美惠：對啊！"],["主席：時間到了，請你回座，請你回座，請你回座，請你回座，請你回座，時間到了！"],["蔡委員易餘：沒有啦！主席，你這樣反而耗時間……"],["主席：沒有，請你回座，請你回座，請你回座好不好？不是，時間到了，你不要這樣子好不好？我已經多給你1分半了，你已經講了5分半了！"],["王委員美惠：給他1分鐘收尾啦！"],["主席：沒有，他剛剛1分鐘，我給他1分半了，我站起來，你就說給你1分半……"],["蔡委員易餘：我就要收尾了……"],["主席：沒有，你的收尾太長。"],["王委員美惠：給他1分鐘啦！"],["主席：本席宣布休息。","休息（11時44分）","繼續開會（11時47分）"],["主席：主席在這裡補充宣告：我們休息到12點半，請行政單位可以去用餐，我們休息用餐到12點半。","休息（11時48分）","繼續開會（12時51分）"],["主席：我們現在繼續開會。","但是本席在這裡特別宣告：我們接下來每一位外委員會的委員都是4分鐘，針對剛剛蔡易餘委員的情況，因為現在才正式開會，本席還是要說明，剛剛蔡委員時間到了，本席沒有立刻站起來，我是讓他繼續講，我看他一直沒收尾，我才站起來請他收尾，他也說好，他要收尾，我就等了1分半，他還不收尾，我一直制止也沒有用，我才消音，後來還是沒有用，所以本席宣告休息，我們希望這個例子不要……"],["蔡委員易餘：主席，基本上，事實上大家在發言的時候，你可以多次制止我，那多次制止我……"],["主席：我有，我有，我有多次，我有，我有多次制止！"],["蔡委員易餘：可是你直接給我消音啊！你直接給我消音，你看大家委員會都是這樣運作的……"],["主席：沒有，我有多次制止。"],["蔡委員易餘：沒有主席會這樣直接就喊卡……"],["主席：我有多次制止，我今天真的有多次制止你。"],["蔡委員易餘：你也是要讓人家說完啊！"],["王委員美惠：剛才應該要給他1分鐘。"],["蔡委員易餘：我就有說我要說完，你不讓我說完，結果就耗這麼久，我們耗這麼多程序……"],["主席：不是，本席要在這邊特別宣告，像我到別的委員會也一樣，發言時間4分鐘，召委一站起來就很快收尾，我從來沒有在召委站起來以後我還一直不收尾的，所以這個情況，我們……"],["蔡委員易餘：主席，事實上我們在講一個議題……"],["主席：我剛剛確實已經給你了……"],["蔡委員易餘：我們就是要把它說完，是啊！"],["吳委員沛憶：剛才宣告我們12點半要開會……"],["主席：請問民進黨的委員要不要繼續開會？如果要，我們就要尊重張啓楷委員，你們要繼續癱瘓議事嗎？"],["蔡委員易餘：我剛剛有跟啓楷道歉，我跟他說先讓我回到這一動，讓我收尾一下……"],["主席：所以麻煩請蔡易餘委員離開發言臺。"],["蔡委員易餘：我剛剛有跟啓楷講過，就讓我快一點收尾，就給我1分鐘講一下，主席可以叫我不要講了，可是不能直接……"],["主席：如果大家繼續這樣，那我們就宣布休息。","休息（12時54分）","繼續開會（14時13分）"],["主席：我們繼續開會。","接下來請張啓楷委員發言。"],["陳委員菁徽：有位子給我們坐嗎？"],["張委員嘉郡：沒位子坐呀！"],["翁委員曉玲：啓楷、啓楷，啓楷委員先！","（現場一片混亂）"],["主席：請大家尊重張啓楷委員，請大家注意會議的秩序。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":126,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-14","speakers":["徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","黃捷","王美惠","張宏陸","高金素梅","李坤城","蔡易餘","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","黃建賓","張智倫","吳琪銘","牛煦庭","吳沛憶","陳菁徽","張嘉郡","翁曉玲","張啓楷","洪孟楷","徐巧芯","林楚茵","吳思瑤","郭國文","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林俊憲","張雅琳","林思銘","黃秀芳","許智傑","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","王義川","莊瑞雄","廖先翔","林宜瑾","林淑芬","賴惠員","傅崐萁","陳素月","吳秉叡","王正旭","徐富癸","邱志偉","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","郭昱晴","林月琴","邱議瑩","李昆澤","葉元之","陳瑩","劉建國","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-05"],"gazette_id":"1140201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於中央選舉委員會及所屬單位預算；二、審查「公職人員\n選舉罷免法」修正草案，計六案：(一)審查委員楊曜等17人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七\n條及第六十九條條文修正草案」案、(二)審查委員蘇清泉等23人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第六\n十九條條文修正草案」案、(三)審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第五十三條條\n文修正草案」案、(四)審查委員陳冠廷等25人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第五十二條條文修正草\n案」案、(五)審查委員許宇甄等39人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第七十五條及第九十條條文修正\n草案」案、(六)審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第三十二條及第四十三條條文修\n正草案」案","agenda_id":"1140201_00001"}}}