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00:01:32,100\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．\n\n6\n00:01:52,995 --> 00:02:03,506\n刀刀劍鼓刀刀劍鼓刀刀劍鼓刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀\n\n7\n00:02:16,368 --> 00:02:17,008\n三）委員張智倫等16人擬具\n\n8\n00:02:35,427 --> 00:02:49,542\n撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人\n\n9\n00:02:54,642 --> 00:02:55,302\n財務上要能夠持續運作\n\n10\n00:03:11,930 --> 00:03:32,621\n法律本來就講說最後政府會負責政府要負最後責你認為會破產嗎因為所有參加基金的人跟政府要一起共同先一起來努力負擔這個責任所以我們贊成年改但是你要有一個限度當我們的人民我們的退休公務人員他的基本的一個生活保障受到很嚴重的衝擊的時候因為社會的變遷\n\n11\n00:03:35,216 --> 00:04:02,076\n你叫做調整啊我現在不曉得為什麼你們到現在還不願意鬆口一直認為說會剝奪什麼現在的這個公務人員他們未來在這個基金裡面會去從他們的這個薪水裡面拿錢政府要負最後的責任嘛你要照顧的這些公務人員是當初他進來公務體系你對他的承諾嘛政府可以這樣子嗎完全違反信賴保護原則\n\n12\n00:04:03,581 --> 00:04:28,396\n我跟委員報告這個當初這個一百零零七年通過這個這個年改法案我想現在保護這段另外一領所以我剛才跟你講我們並沒有反對年改但是年改要有一個限度到目前要檢討了啦到檢討的時間已經到了啦所以你們還口口聲聲說這個事要保障公務人員我不曉得年改不走回頭路現在的牌子怎樣寫\n\n13\n00:04:29,062 --> 00:04:33,703\n三）委員賴清德等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員賴清德等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員\n\n14\n00:04:57,012 --> 00:04:58,613\n三（委員張智倫等16人擬具«公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案案。\n\n15\n00:05:23,188 --> 00:05:48,693\n這個會造成就是說你雖然說會隨公務人員的調薪也對我們的退休公務人員的他的相關的退休金也會做調整做微調但是我們他砍的幅度是非常大的我們現在覺得說你現在砍到一個程度你就不應該再砍了我現在意思是這樣就砍夠了沒有你不要再跟我講什麼這個調薪不調薪的問題這原本就是你要去做調整的嘛這是原本他權力的保障嘛\n\n16\n00:05:50,086 --> 00:06:18,977\n現在是說你砍夠了沒有?砍到百分之六十七點五了啦。現在到目前為止。你剛才提到兩千多億啦齁。你們都提出長篇兩千這個很健康的砍。這些公務人員都還生活不下去了啦。你還說很健康的砍。毫拜你也會老。你會遇到一樣的問題啦。我相信你的整個這個想法又跟現在不一樣啦。\n\n17\n00:06:20,239 --> 00:06:20,379\n三）委員\n\n18\n00:06:42,932 --> 00:07:09,853\n今天署長沒來當然是主任你來我還是就叫你啦年改後我們的警察緩退新陳代謝困難出現基層警力老化警力斷層的警訊監察院在108年現在已經113年5年前的12月17號就提出調查報告要求內政部警政署行政院人事行政總署徹底檢討並研磨改善\n\n19\n00:07:11,435 --> 00:07:26,067\n請問現在研磨改善的內容大概是怎麼樣各位委員報告其實我們現在陸陸續續在招生我們每年幾乎招生兩到三千年的基層前列所以陸陸續續已經有在遞補新的能力了\n\n20\n00:07:27,608 --> 00:07:55,246\n另外,我們立法院在今年的3月20日也發函檢訟警察人員年金制度檢討續處情形及軍公教人員年金制度檢討資訊公開事宜其中對於年改制度調整認為影響層面廣泛尤其要將警察人員與一般公務人員及其他圍牢職務人員脫鉤\n\n21\n00:07:56,967 --> 00:08:21,585\n而要提高他的所得替代率有做出這樣的一個建議請問你們對這個建議有什麼看法這部分我們警政署因為畢竟這是考試院縣政執掌所以我們會積極協調香港單位你是否對於我們的警察人員消防人員還有危牢的職務人員能訂定特別的退休所得替代率你贊成嗎\n\n22\n00:08:22,743 --> 00:08:43,597\n以我們立場,照顧警察同仁,其實政府一直都很照顧我們警察同仁,相關的服務一帶我們都是有比較優於一般的公務人員雖然涉及跟人事總署有關,跟全序部有關但是我站在你們是警政署主管機關的一個立場你對於警察人員退休之後他們生活的保障你認為還要這樣刀刀劍骨嗎?\n\n23\n00:08:46,479 --> 00:09:14,037\n當然啦以我們個人立場希望我們能夠政府在對我們警察﹖所以我們認為你們站在你們警察的一個主管機關的立場你要更加的保護你們警消的相關的人員好不好希望你們要大力的在政府部門為他們發聲支持年金改革啦支持年金不是反對年金那個年金改革要走一個這個適當的路啦\n\n24\n00:09:14,377 --> 00:09:15,583\n撫卹法第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n169\t14614\t我們請人事長還有我們全區部麻煩人事長和全區部長委員長是人事長跟部長首先請教我先講總統的一段話給大家知道\n16691\t35483\t賴清德總統他在擔任行政院長的時候他在2019年在台大有一場演講他對於年金改革的議題啊他表示說年金改革當然不可能回到從前了但是如果有受到衝擊的話必要應該做一些調整\n37546\t63741\t所以我想請教兩位對於賴總統這一番話就是說年金如果有必要的話要做調整那你們的看法如何尤其對於我們今年七月我們首次的年金改革五年檢討出爐所以你覺得目前我們的年改的成效如何有哪些問題可以改善去呼應賴總統的當時在擔任行政院長他所說的這個話\n64121\t84654\t我跟委員簡單的一個報告確實我們在去年有做五年根據法律做五年度的那個調整報告那調整報告是建立了一套機制那最後評估結果是說因為年金的財務還是非常嚴峻所以呢我們會持續來觀察這個事情所以我想所以你完全不贊成他講的所謂的微調的一個看法\n86015\t92100\t撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．\n112995\t123506\t刀刀劍鼓刀刀劍鼓刀刀劍鼓刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀\n136368\t137008\t三）委員張智倫等16人擬具\n155427\t169542\t撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人\n174642\t175302\t財務上要能夠持續運作\n191930\t212621\t法律本來就講說最後政府會負責政府要負最後責你認為會破產嗎因為所有參加基金的人跟政府要一起共同先一起來努力負擔這個責任所以我們贊成年改但是你要有一個限度當我們的人民我們的退休公務人員他的基本的一個生活保障受到很嚴重的衝擊的時候因為社會的變遷\n215216\t242076\t你叫做調整啊我現在不曉得為什麼你們到現在還不願意鬆口一直認為說會剝奪什麼現在的這個公務人員他們未來在這個基金裡面會去從他們的這個薪水裡面拿錢政府要負最後的責任嘛你要照顧的這些公務人員是當初他進來公務體系你對他的承諾嘛政府可以這樣子嗎完全違反信賴保護原則\n243581\t268396\t我跟委員報告這個當初這個一百零零七年通過這個這個年改法案我想現在保護這段另外一領所以我剛才跟你講我們並沒有反對年改但是年改要有一個限度到目前要檢討了啦到檢討的時間已經到了啦所以你們還口口聲聲說這個事要保障公務人員我不曉得年改不走回頭路現在的牌子怎樣寫\n269062\t273703\t三）委員賴清德等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員賴清德等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員\n297012\t298613\t三（委員張智倫等16人擬具 «公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案 案。\n323188\t348693\t這個會造成就是說你雖然說會隨公務人員的調薪也對我們的退休公務人員的他的相關的退休金也會做調整做微調但是我們他砍的幅度是非常大的我們現在覺得說你現在砍到一個程度你就不應該再砍了我現在意思是這樣就砍夠了沒有你不要再跟我講什麼這個調薪不調薪的問題這原本就是你要去做調整的嘛這是原本他權力的保障嘛\n350086\t378977\t現在是說你砍夠了沒有?砍到百分之六十七點五了啦。現在到目前為止。你剛才提到兩千多億啦齁。你們都提出長篇兩千這個很健康的砍。這些公務人員都還生活不下去了啦。你還說很健康的砍。毫拜你也會老。你會遇到一樣的問題啦。我相信你的整個這個想法又跟現在不一樣啦。\n380239\t380379\t三）委員\n402932\t429853\t今天署長沒來當然是主任你來我還是就叫你啦年改後我們的警察緩退新陳代謝困難出現基層警力老化警力斷層的警訊監察院在108年現在已經113年5年前的12月17號就提出調查報告要求內政部警政署行政院人事行政總署徹底檢討並研磨改善\n431435\t446067\t請問現在研磨改善的內容大概是怎麼樣各位委員報告其實我們現在陸陸續續在招生我們每年幾乎招生兩到三千年的基層前列所以陸陸續續已經有在遞補新的能力了\n447608\t475246\t另外,我們立法院在今年的3月20日也發函檢訟警察人員年金制度檢討續處情形及軍公教人員年金制度檢討資訊公開事宜其中對於年改制度調整認為影響層面廣泛尤其要將警察人員與一般公務人員及其他圍牢職務人員脫鉤\n476967\t501585\t而要提高他的所得替代率有做出這樣的一個建議請問你們對這個建議有什麼看法這部分我們警政署因為畢竟這是考試院縣政執掌所以我們會積極協調香港單位你是否對於我們的警察人員消防人員還有危牢的職務人員能訂定特別的退休所得替代率你贊成嗎\n502743\t523597\t以我們立場,照顧警察同仁,其實政府一直都很照顧我們警察同仁,相關的服務一帶我們都是有比較優於一般的公務人員雖然涉及跟人事總署有關,跟全序部有關但是我站在你們是警政署主管機關的一個立場你對於警察人員退休之後他們生活的保障你認為還要這樣刀刀劍骨嗎?\n526479\t554037\t當然啦以我們個人立場希望我們能夠政府在對我們警察﹖所以我們認為你們站在你們警察的一個主管機關的立場你要更加的保護你們警消的相關的人員好不好希望你們要大力的在政府部門為他們發聲支持年金改革啦支持年金不是反對年金那個年金改革要走一個這個適當的路啦\n554377\t555583\t撫卹法第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n","txt":"我們請人事長還有我們全區部麻煩人事長和全區部長委員長是人事長跟部長首先請教我先講總統的一段話給大家知道\n賴清德總統他在擔任行政院長的時候他在2019年在台大有一場演講他對於年金改革的議題啊他表示說年金改革當然不可能回到從前了但是如果有受到衝擊的話必要應該做一些調整\n所以我想請教兩位對於賴總統這一番話就是說年金如果有必要的話要做調整那你們的看法如何尤其對於我們今年七月我們首次的年金改革五年檢討出爐所以你覺得目前我們的年改的成效如何有哪些問題可以改善去呼應賴總統的當時在擔任行政院長他所說的這個話\n我跟委員簡單的一個報告確實我們在去年有做五年根據法律做五年度的那個調整報告那調整報告是建立了一套機制那最後評估結果是說因為年金的財務還是非常嚴峻所以呢我們會持續來觀察這個事情所以我想所以你完全不贊成他講的所謂的微調的一個看法\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．\n刀刀劍鼓刀刀劍鼓刀刀劍鼓刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀\n三）委員張智倫等16人擬具\n撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人\n財務上要能夠持續運作\n法律本來就講說最後政府會負責政府要負最後責你認為會破產嗎因為所有參加基金的人跟政府要一起共同先一起來努力負擔這個責任所以我們贊成年改但是你要有一個限度當我們的人民我們的退休公務人員他的基本的一個生活保障受到很嚴重的衝擊的時候因為社會的變遷\n你叫做調整啊我現在不曉得為什麼你們到現在還不願意鬆口一直認為說會剝奪什麼現在的這個公務人員他們未來在這個基金裡面會去從他們的這個薪水裡面拿錢政府要負最後的責任嘛你要照顧的這些公務人員是當初他進來公務體系你對他的承諾嘛政府可以這樣子嗎完全違反信賴保護原則\n我跟委員報告這個當初這個一百零零七年通過這個這個年改法案我想現在保護這段另外一領所以我剛才跟你講我們並沒有反對年改但是年改要有一個限度到目前要檢討了啦到檢討的時間已經到了啦所以你們還口口聲聲說這個事要保障公務人員我不曉得年改不走回頭路現在的牌子怎樣寫\n三）委員賴清德等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員賴清德等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員\n三（委員張智倫等16人擬具 «公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案 案。\n這個會造成就是說你雖然說會隨公務人員的調薪也對我們的退休公務人員的他的相關的退休金也會做調整做微調但是我們他砍的幅度是非常大的我們現在覺得說你現在砍到一個程度你就不應該再砍了我現在意思是這樣就砍夠了沒有你不要再跟我講什麼這個調薪不調薪的問題這原本就是你要去做調整的嘛這是原本他權力的保障嘛\n現在是說你砍夠了沒有?砍到百分之六十七點五了啦。現在到目前為止。你剛才提到兩千多億啦齁。你們都提出長篇兩千這個很健康的砍。這些公務人員都還生活不下去了啦。你還說很健康的砍。毫拜你也會老。你會遇到一樣的問題啦。我相信你的整個這個想法又跟現在不一樣啦。\n三）委員\n今天署長沒來當然是主任你來我還是就叫你啦年改後我們的警察緩退新陳代謝困難出現基層警力老化警力斷層的警訊監察院在108年現在已經113年5年前的12月17號就提出調查報告要求內政部警政署行政院人事行政總署徹底檢討並研磨改善\n請問現在研磨改善的內容大概是怎麼樣各位委員報告其實我們現在陸陸續續在招生我們每年幾乎招生兩到三千年的基層前列所以陸陸續續已經有在遞補新的能力了\n另外,我們立法院在今年的3月20日也發函檢訟警察人員年金制度檢討續處情形及軍公教人員年金制度檢討資訊公開事宜其中對於年改制度調整認為影響層面廣泛尤其要將警察人員與一般公務人員及其他圍牢職務人員脫鉤\n而要提高他的所得替代率有做出這樣的一個建議請問你們對這個建議有什麼看法這部分我們警政署因為畢竟這是考試院縣政執掌所以我們會積極協調香港單位你是否對於我們的警察人員消防人員還有危牢的職務人員能訂定特別的退休所得替代率你贊成嗎\n以我們立場,照顧警察同仁,其實政府一直都很照顧我們警察同仁,相關的服務一帶我們都是有比較優於一般的公務人員雖然涉及跟人事總署有關,跟全序部有關但是我站在你們是警政署主管機關的一個立場你對於警察人員退休之後他們生活的保障你認為還要這樣刀刀劍骨嗎?\n當然啦以我們個人立場希望我們能夠政府在對我們警察﹖所以我們認為你們站在你們警察的一個主管機關的立場你要更加的保護你們警消的相關的人員好不好希望你們要大力的在政府部門為他們發聲支持年金改革啦支持年金不是反對年金那個年金改革要走一個這個適當的路啦\n撫卹法第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.169 --> 00:14.614\n我們請人事長還有我們全區部麻煩人事長和全區部長委員長是人事長跟部長首先請教我先講總統的一段話給大家知道\n\n00:16.691 --> 00:35.483\n賴清德總統他在擔任行政院長的時候他在2019年在台大有一場演講他對於年金改革的議題啊他表示說年金改革當然不可能回到從前了但是如果有受到衝擊的話必要應該做一些調整\n\n00:37.546 --> 01:03.741\n所以我想請教兩位對於賴總統這一番話就是說年金如果有必要的話要做調整那你們的看法如何尤其對於我們今年七月我們首次的年金改革五年檢討出爐所以你覺得目前我們的年改的成效如何有哪些問題可以改善去呼應賴總統的當時在擔任行政院長他所說的這個話\n\n01:04.121 --> 01:24.654\n我跟委員簡單的一個報告確實我們在去年有做五年根據法律做五年度的那個調整報告那調整報告是建立了一套機制那最後評估結果是說因為年金的財務還是非常嚴峻所以呢我們會持續來觀察這個事情所以我想所以你完全不贊成他講的所謂的微調的一個看法\n\n01:26.015 --> 01:32.100\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．\n\n01:52.995 --> 02:03.506\n刀刀劍鼓刀刀劍鼓刀刀劍鼓刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀\n\n02:16.368 --> 02:17.008\n三）委員張智倫等16人擬具\n\n02:35.427 --> 02:49.542\n撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人\n\n02:54.642 --> 02:55.302\n財務上要能夠持續運作\n\n03:11.930 --> 03:32.621\n法律本來就講說最後政府會負責政府要負最後責你認為會破產嗎因為所有參加基金的人跟政府要一起共同先一起來努力負擔這個責任所以我們贊成年改但是你要有一個限度當我們的人民我們的退休公務人員他的基本的一個生活保障受到很嚴重的衝擊的時候因為社會的變遷\n\n03:35.216 --> 04:02.076\n你叫做調整啊我現在不曉得為什麼你們到現在還不願意鬆口一直認為說會剝奪什麼現在的這個公務人員他們未來在這個基金裡面會去從他們的這個薪水裡面拿錢政府要負最後的責任嘛你要照顧的這些公務人員是當初他進來公務體系你對他的承諾嘛政府可以這樣子嗎完全違反信賴保護原則\n\n04:03.581 --> 04:28.396\n我跟委員報告這個當初這個一百零零七年通過這個這個年改法案我想現在保護這段另外一領所以我剛才跟你講我們並沒有反對年改但是年改要有一個限度到目前要檢討了啦到檢討的時間已經到了啦所以你們還口口聲聲說這個事要保障公務人員我不曉得年改不走回頭路現在的牌子怎樣寫\n\n04:29.062 --> 04:33.703\n三）委員賴清德等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員賴清德等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員\n\n04:57.012 --> 04:58.613\n三（委員張智倫等16人擬具«公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案案。\n\n05:23.188 --> 05:48.693\n這個會造成就是說你雖然說會隨公務人員的調薪也對我們的退休公務人員的他的相關的退休金也會做調整做微調但是我們他砍的幅度是非常大的我們現在覺得說你現在砍到一個程度你就不應該再砍了我現在意思是這樣就砍夠了沒有你不要再跟我講什麼這個調薪不調薪的問題這原本就是你要去做調整的嘛這是原本他權力的保障嘛\n\n05:50.086 --> 06:18.977\n現在是說你砍夠了沒有?砍到百分之六十七點五了啦。現在到目前為止。你剛才提到兩千多億啦齁。你們都提出長篇兩千這個很健康的砍。這些公務人員都還生活不下去了啦。你還說很健康的砍。毫拜你也會老。你會遇到一樣的問題啦。我相信你的整個這個想法又跟現在不一樣啦。\n\n06:20.239 --> 06:20.379\n三）委員\n\n06:42.932 --> 07:09.853\n今天署長沒來當然是主任你來我還是就叫你啦年改後我們的警察緩退新陳代謝困難出現基層警力老化警力斷層的警訊監察院在108年現在已經113年5年前的12月17號就提出調查報告要求內政部警政署行政院人事行政總署徹底檢討並研磨改善\n\n07:11.435 --> 07:26.067\n請問現在研磨改善的內容大概是怎麼樣各位委員報告其實我們現在陸陸續續在招生我們每年幾乎招生兩到三千年的基層前列所以陸陸續續已經有在遞補新的能力了\n\n07:27.608 --> 07:55.246\n另外,我們立法院在今年的3月20日也發函檢訟警察人員年金制度檢討續處情形及軍公教人員年金制度檢討資訊公開事宜其中對於年改制度調整認為影響層面廣泛尤其要將警察人員與一般公務人員及其他圍牢職務人員脫鉤\n\n07:56.967 --> 08:21.585\n而要提高他的所得替代率有做出這樣的一個建議請問你們對這個建議有什麼看法這部分我們警政署因為畢竟這是考試院縣政執掌所以我們會積極協調香港單位你是否對於我們的警察人員消防人員還有危牢的職務人員能訂定特別的退休所得替代率你贊成嗎\n\n08:22.743 --> 08:43.597\n以我們立場,照顧警察同仁,其實政府一直都很照顧我們警察同仁,相關的服務一帶我們都是有比較優於一般的公務人員雖然涉及跟人事總署有關,跟全序部有關但是我站在你們是警政署主管機關的一個立場你對於警察人員退休之後他們生活的保障你認為還要這樣刀刀劍骨嗎?\n\n08:46.479 --> 09:14.037\n當然啦以我們個人立場希望我們能夠政府在對我們警察﹖所以我們認為你們站在你們警察的一個主管機關的立場你要更加的保護你們警消的相關的人員好不好希望你們要大力的在政府部門為他們發聲支持年金改革啦支持年金不是反對年金那個年金改革要走一個這個適當的路啦\n\n09:14.377 --> 09:15.583\n撫卹法第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.169,"end":14.614,"text":"我們請人事長還有我們全區部麻煩人事長和全區部長委員長是人事長跟部長首先請教我先講總統的一段話給大家知道"},{"start":16.691,"end":35.483,"text":"賴清德總統他在擔任行政院長的時候他在2019年在台大有一場演講他對於年金改革的議題啊他表示說年金改革當然不可能回到從前了但是如果有受到衝擊的話必要應該做一些調整"},{"start":37.546,"end":63.741,"text":"所以我想請教兩位對於賴總統這一番話就是說年金如果有必要的話要做調整那你們的看法如何尤其對於我們今年七月我們首次的年金改革五年檢討出爐所以你覺得目前我們的年改的成效如何有哪些問題可以改善去呼應賴總統的當時在擔任行政院長他所說的這個話"},{"start":64.121,"end":84.654,"text":"我跟委員簡單的一個報告確實我們在去年有做五年根據法律做五年度的那個調整報告那調整報告是建立了一套機制那最後評估結果是說因為年金的財務還是非常嚴峻所以呢我們會持續來觀察這個事情所以我想所以你完全不贊成他講的所謂的微調的一個看法"},{"start":86.015,"end":92.1,"text":"撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．"},{"start":112.995,"end":123.506,"text":"刀刀劍鼓刀刀劍鼓刀刀劍鼓刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀刀"},{"start":136.368,"end":137.008,"text":"三）委員張智倫等16人擬具"},{"start":155.427,"end":169.542,"text":"撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人"},{"start":174.642,"end":175.302,"text":"財務上要能夠持續運作"},{"start":191.93,"end":212.621,"text":"法律本來就講說最後政府會負責政府要負最後責你認為會破產嗎因為所有參加基金的人跟政府要一起共同先一起來努力負擔這個責任所以我們贊成年改但是你要有一個限度當我們的人民我們的退休公務人員他的基本的一個生活保障受到很嚴重的衝擊的時候因為社會的變遷"},{"start":215.216,"end":242.076,"text":"你叫做調整啊我現在不曉得為什麼你們到現在還不願意鬆口一直認為說會剝奪什麼現在的這個公務人員他們未來在這個基金裡面會去從他們的這個薪水裡面拿錢政府要負最後的責任嘛你要照顧的這些公務人員是當初他進來公務體系你對他的承諾嘛政府可以這樣子嗎完全違反信賴保護原則"},{"start":243.581,"end":268.396,"text":"我跟委員報告這個當初這個一百零零七年通過這個這個年改法案我想現在保護這段另外一領所以我剛才跟你講我們並沒有反對年改但是年改要有一個限度到目前要檢討了啦到檢討的時間已經到了啦所以你們還口口聲聲說這個事要保障公務人員我不曉得年改不走回頭路現在的牌子怎樣寫"},{"start":269.062,"end":273.703,"text":"三）委員賴清德等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員賴清德等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員"},{"start":297.012,"end":298.613,"text":"三（委員張智倫等16人擬具 «公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案 案。"},{"start":323.188,"end":348.693,"text":"這個會造成就是說你雖然說會隨公務人員的調薪也對我們的退休公務人員的他的相關的退休金也會做調整做微調但是我們他砍的幅度是非常大的我們現在覺得說你現在砍到一個程度你就不應該再砍了我現在意思是這樣就砍夠了沒有你不要再跟我講什麼這個調薪不調薪的問題這原本就是你要去做調整的嘛這是原本他權力的保障嘛"},{"start":350.086,"end":378.977,"text":"現在是說你砍夠了沒有?砍到百分之六十七點五了啦。現在到目前為止。你剛才提到兩千多億啦齁。你們都提出長篇兩千這個很健康的砍。這些公務人員都還生活不下去了啦。你還說很健康的砍。毫拜你也會老。你會遇到一樣的問題啦。我相信你的整個這個想法又跟現在不一樣啦。"},{"start":380.239,"end":380.379,"text":"三）委員"},{"start":402.932,"end":429.853,"text":"今天署長沒來當然是主任你來我還是就叫你啦年改後我們的警察緩退新陳代謝困難出現基層警力老化警力斷層的警訊監察院在108年現在已經113年5年前的12月17號就提出調查報告要求內政部警政署行政院人事行政總署徹底檢討並研磨改善"},{"start":431.435,"end":446.067,"text":"請問現在研磨改善的內容大概是怎麼樣各位委員報告其實我們現在陸陸續續在招生我們每年幾乎招生兩到三千年的基層前列所以陸陸續續已經有在遞補新的能力了"},{"start":447.608,"end":475.246,"text":"另外,我們立法院在今年的3月20日也發函檢訟警察人員年金制度檢討續處情形及軍公教人員年金制度檢討資訊公開事宜其中對於年改制度調整認為影響層面廣泛尤其要將警察人員與一般公務人員及其他圍牢職務人員脫鉤"},{"start":476.967,"end":501.585,"text":"而要提高他的所得替代率有做出這樣的一個建議請問你們對這個建議有什麼看法這部分我們警政署因為畢竟這是考試院縣政執掌所以我們會積極協調香港單位你是否對於我們的警察人員消防人員還有危牢的職務人員能訂定特別的退休所得替代率你贊成嗎"},{"start":502.743,"end":523.597,"text":"以我們立場,照顧警察同仁,其實政府一直都很照顧我們警察同仁,相關的服務一帶我們都是有比較優於一般的公務人員雖然涉及跟人事總署有關,跟全序部有關但是我站在你們是警政署主管機關的一個立場你對於警察人員退休之後他們生活的保障你認為還要這樣刀刀劍骨嗎?"},{"start":526.479,"end":554.037,"text":"當然啦以我們個人立場希望我們能夠政府在對我們警察﹖所以我們認為你們站在你們警察的一個主管機關的立場你要更加的保護你們警消的相關的人員好不好希望你們要大力的在政府部門為他們發聲支持年金改革啦支持年金不是反對年金那個年金改革要走一個這個適當的路啦"},{"start":554.377,"end":555.583,"text":"撫卹法第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":579,"blocks":[["林委員思銘：（11時42分）謝謝主席，我們請人事長，還有我們銓敘部。"],["主席：麻煩人事長、銓敘部長。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：委員早。"],["林委員思銘：人事長跟部長，我先講總統的一段話給大家知道。賴清德總統在擔任行政院長的時候，2019年他在臺大有一場演講，他對於年金改革的議題表示說：年金改革當然不可能回到從前了，但是如果有受到衝擊的話，必要應該做一些調整。所以我想請教兩位，對於賴總統這一番話，就是說年金如果有必要的話要做調整，你們的看法如何？尤其對於今年7月，我們首次的年金改革5年檢討出爐，所以你覺得目前我們的年改成效如何？有哪些問題可以改善，以呼應賴總統當時在擔任行政院長所說的這個話？"],["施部長能傑：我跟委員簡單報告，確實我們在去年有根據法律做5年度的調整報告，調整報告是建立了一套機制，最後評估結果是說因為年金的財務還是非常嚴峻，所以我們會持續來觀察這個事情，所以我想……"],["林委員思銘：所以你完全不贊成他講的所謂微調的看法嗎？"],["施部長能傑：我想總統講的是告訴我們要持續的去關注、隨時來檢討這個年金執行完以後會怎麼樣……"],["林委員思銘：所以你認為成效很好嗎？你認為這個年金改革的成效很好？"],["施部長能傑：跟委員報告，年金改革以後，對基金財務的挹注真的是幫忙非常大……"],["林委員思銘：我們剛剛一直提到，總共這幾年來砍了……剛剛人事長講兩千多少？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：2,074億。"],["林委員思銘：2,074億嘛。"],["施部長能傑：跟委員報告，我想這個是因為結餘來挹注，所以基金才能夠永續經營。"],["林委員思銘：部長，砍了兩千多億，你們認為還不夠嗎？刀刀見骨了，你認為還不夠嗎？所以我覺得你們真的沒有實際上去基層了解我們所有公務人員的心聲，現在物價調漲，所有包含醫療、就醫的這些費用，老年了嘛！跟年輕不一樣，所以他的支出會更多，我們一直在講，依照CPI的指數來做調整，但是你有沒有想到我們老年健康會出問題？你們有沒有把健康的因子考量進去？當初沒有嘛！所以我們才會認為，實際上這個檢討的時間真的已經到了，砍了兩千多億了嘛！你認為夠不夠？"],["施部長能傑：我還是跟委員報告，整個新制實施以後，我們都是在基金裡面運作，而我們要確保基金能夠持續運作，沒有錯，因為基金長期……"],["林委員思銘：確保基金要持續運作……"],["施部長能傑：就是財務上能夠持續運作。"],["林委員思銘：部長，你是銓敘部長，你認為政府不用負最後責任嗎？"],["施部長能傑：我們法律本來就講說最後政府會負責，但是……"],["林委員思銘：是嘛！政府要負最後責任，你認為會破產嗎？"],["施部長能傑：因為所有參加基金的人跟政府要一起共同來努力負擔這個責任。"],["林委員思銘：所以我們贊成年改，但是你要有一個限度，當我們的人民、我們的退休公務人員，他的基本的生活保障受到很嚴重衝擊時，因為社會的變遷，你就要做調整，我現在不曉得為什麼你們到現在還不願意鬆口，一直認為會剝奪現在的公務人員未來在這個基金裡面會從他們的薪水裡面拿錢，政府要負最後的責任，你要照顧這些公務人員，這是當初他進來公務體系，你對他的承諾，政府可以這樣子嗎？完全違反信賴保護原則？"],["施部長能傑：我跟委員報告，當初107年通過這個年改法案，我想信賴保護是另外的理由，我想大法官已經解釋它的合憲性……"],["林委員思銘：我們並沒有反對年改，但是年改要有一個限度，到目前要檢討了啦，檢討的時候已經到了。"],["施部長能傑：委員們提案……"],["林委員思銘：所以你們還口口聲聲說這個是要保障公務人員，我不曉得「年改不走回頭路」，現在這牌子是這樣寫？"],["施部長能傑：我想委員們的提案，這在立法部門……"],["林委員思銘：連賴清德總統說，如果有受到衝擊的時候，我們要做調整，所以調整的時間已經到了、調整的年代已經到了，為什麼銓敘部不去呼應當初賴清德總統在臺大演講時自己說的話呢？所以我覺得你們還是要深切做檢討，真的已經很辛苦了，包含你自己未來退休，你都會面臨這個問題啦。"],["林委員思銘：人事長，也講一講吧，砍夠了沒有？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我跟委員報告一下，因為事實上這幾年我們都有在調薪，所以調薪代表它的母數是增加的，雖然所得替代率是往下，可是實際上不是大家所想像的變成65%這樣啦！"],["林委員思銘：人事長，調薪的%數很少的。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：那個影響很大，我們算一算已經七成多。"],["林委員思銘：我跟你講，雖然你說會隨公務人員調薪，對我們退休公務人員相關的退休金也會做調整、做微調，但是它砍的幅度是非常大的，我們現在覺得你砍到一個程度就不應該再砍了，我現在意思是這樣，就是砍夠了沒有？你不要再跟我講什麼調薪不調薪的問題，這原本就是你要去做調整的嘛！這是原本他的權利保障嘛！現在是說你砍夠了沒有？砍到67.5%了啦，現在到目前為止……"],["蘇人事長俊榮：報告委員，那不是砍啦，那是順勢讓它到最健康……"],["林委員思銘：你剛才提到兩千多億啦，你們都提出長篇大論，說兩千多億是「很健康的砍」，這些公務人員都要生活不下去了啦，你還說「很健康的砍」？之後你也會老，你會遇到一樣的問題啦，我相信你的整個想法又跟現在不一樣了，我覺得政府真的要負到照顧我們全民的責任啦，好，這個問題先問到這裡。","對於警察年改的部分，今天警政署人事室主任也有來，請上臺一下。今天署長沒來，但人事室主任你來了，我還是就教你啦！"],["許主任淑貞：是。"],["林委員思銘：年改後我們的警察緩退，新陳代謝困難，出現基層警力老化、警力斷層的警訊，監察院在108年，現在已113年，即5年前12月17號就提出調查報告，要求內政部警政署、行政院人事行政總處澈底檢討並研謀改善。請問現在研謀改善的內容大概是怎麼樣？"],["許主任淑貞：跟委員報告，其實我們現在陸陸續續在招生，每年幾乎招生二到三千人的基層警力，所以陸陸續續已經有遞補新的人力。"],["林委員思銘：是。另外，立法院在113（今）年3月20號發函檢送「警察人員年金制度檢討續處情形及軍公教人員年金制度檢討資訊公開事宜」，其中認為年改制度的調整影響層面廣泛，尤其要將警察人員與一般公務人員及其他危勞職務人員脫鉤，提高他們的所得替代率，做出這樣的一個建議，請問你對於這個建議有什麼看法？"],["許主任淑貞：因為畢竟這是考試院的職掌，我們警政署會積極協調相關單位……"],["林委員思銘：沒有，我要先問你，因為你是主管機關。對於警察人員、消防人員還有危勞職務人員，能另訂特別的退休所得替代率，你贊成嗎？"],["許主任淑貞：以我們照顧警察同仁的立場，其實政府一直都很照顧我們警察同仁，相關的福利待遇，是有比較優於一般公務人員。"],["林委員思銘：這雖然涉及跟人事總處、銓敘部有關，但站在警政署是主管機關立場，對於警察人員退休之後的生活保障，你認為還要這樣刀刀見骨嗎？"],["許主任淑貞：當然，以個人立場，我是希望政府對警察……"],["林委員思銘：我們是認為站在警察主管機關立場，你要更加保護你們警消相關人員……"],["許主任淑貞：是、是。"],["林委員思銘：好不好？"],["許主任淑貞：我們會尊重憲政的職掌，考試院的職掌、政策決定……"],["林委員思銘：希望你們要大力在政府部門為他們發聲……"],["許主任淑貞：當然、當然。謝謝。"],["林委員思銘：支持年金改革啦！不是，不是支持，是讓年金改革走到一個適當的路，不要再往下砍了！OK，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位請林宜瑾委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-18","speakers":["吳宗憲","賴士葆","翁曉玲","張嘉郡","羅智強","黃建賓","林思銘","張智倫","黃健豪","許宇甄","鍾佳濱","吳思瑤","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","王義川","李彥秀","吳沛憶","沈伯洋","林宜瑾","陳俊宇","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","林德福","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","李坤城","林楚茵","張雅琳","黃秀芳","林淑芬","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","陳素月","徐富癸","賴惠員","吳秉叡","許智傑","陳培瑜","郭國文"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-05"],"gazette_id":"1140301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)委員賴士葆等31人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」\n案、(二)委員賴士葆等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(三)\n委員張智倫等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員張嘉\n郡等23人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員賴士葆等26人\n擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「公\n務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條、第三十八條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員邱鎮\n軍等25 人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、( 八) 國民黨黨團擬具\n「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員林思銘等26人擬具「公務人\n員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十)委員陳超明等19人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員許宇甄等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員張智倫等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三條、第八條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員馬文君等20人擬具「公務人員退\n休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員傅崐萁等21人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員黃建賓等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十八)委員陳玉珍等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十\n八條條文修正草案」案、(二十)委員羅智強等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條\n文修正草案」案；二、併案審查(一)委員李彥秀等18人擬具「公務人員任用法第三十六條之一條\n文修正草案」案、(二)委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「公務人員任用法第二十八條之一條文修正草案」\n案","agenda_id":"1140301_00001"}}}