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\"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 453.769, \"end\": 453.949, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"障\", \"start\": 453.949, \"end\": 453.969, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:12,521 --> 00:00:15,882\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）\n\n2\n00:00:35,970 --> 00:00:50,232\n第六第七條條文修正草案案。那麼在第六第七年的這個過程當中不知道我們全序部當中有沒有委外來做民調或者是有沒有掌握到一些民調就是真的如同現在國民黨提案委員認為的\n\n3\n00:00:51,474 --> 00:01:15,743\n真的導致了這些退休的軍公教人員尤其是公務員造成他們的生活困頓或是生活不易甚至於說隨著我們所謂講的物價上漲造成了他們活不下去嗎又或者是讓他們的生活上面出現了什麼困難嗎那權敘部針對這個部分有沒有什麼樣的了解\n\n4\n00:01:16,323 --> 00:01:34,465\n我跟委員報告我想我們的法例明文規定即使是退休人員在年改後他都還是隨著物價指數5%左右就開始或者每四年會檢討所以都還是有定期的一個調整並不是沒有沒有調整那至於說每個人退休所得有多少因為會跟他\n\n5\n00:01:34,986 --> 00:01:39,689\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具\n\n6\n00:01:55,625 --> 00:01:57,266\n公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案\n\n7\n00:02:15,703 --> 00:02:40,298\n好言下之意就是其實在當年年改的時候也有顧及到就是所謂物價波動這個部分雖然說我們的所得替代率是有在逐年的下降但是另外一方面隨著物價該上漲該調整的我們還是有做適時的反應對嗎沒有錯而且這是全世界幾乎主要國家都是對退休人員所得調整的方式\n\n8\n00:02:40,958 --> 00:02:59,850\n所以說本席要讓你來看一個這是幾次我找到的在2018年的時候針對軍公教的年改當時是55%的民眾滿意那麼在到2024年的5月那麼其實還是有六成的民眾覺得年改事實上這樣的一條改革的道路\n\n9\n00:03:00,791 --> 00:03:04,992\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n\n10\n00:03:28,777 --> 00:03:41,747\n撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第13條條文修正草案．一）立法院第13會期司法及法制委員會第14會期司法及法制委員會第15會期司法及法制委員會第16會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第18會期司法及法制委員會第18會期司法及法制委員會第18會期司法及法制委員會第19會期司法及法制委員會第19會期司法及法制委員會第19會期司法及法制委員會第20會期司法及法制委員會第20會期\n\n11\n00:03:45,629 --> 00:04:10,086\n例如本席家裡有人是軍人也有人是教師所以其實這個題目當你一定要面臨要做改革的時候其實是跟我們全國的每一個人都有關所以為什麼今天值得在這裡詢答也希望部長能夠來做一些回應提供我們更多的資料跟資訊因為這不只是整個國家整體的問題\n\n12\n00:04:11,247 --> 00:04:28,313\n更是接下來年輕世代如果他要報考公務員如果他要成為教師或者是他要從軍報國的時候他所擔憂的那就是接下來當我年資滿了可以退休了當我服役完了之後我要退役的時候\n\n13\n00:04:29,073 --> 00:04:32,695\n我的所謂未來的退休金有沒有保障我想部長你也能夠同意當時我們從2017、2018在推年改的時候其實想法都是一樣的我們要解決的是讓它能夠永續所以這也是為什麼我相信今天質詢當中這個圖這一句話部長已經看了沒要看了我是第幾個我是第20個起來可能看第20遍了\n\n14\n00:04:53,507 --> 00:05:17,330\n那馬英九也講過雖然說馬英九現在講的話跟過去講的話不一定是一樣的啦齁但是這個東西就實實在在的可以感受到他也不是藍綠的問題他也不是職業別的問題他是整體世代跟整體台灣人的問題齁主席站起來我會儘量遵守時間包括當年關中也講了就是政府讓你養老\n\n15\n00:05:18,251 --> 00:05:37,276\n可不是讓你養尊處優所以這也是我一剛開始講的一個命題所以這裡是我拿到的資料我也請部長來看一下這是以2024年我找了七職等九職等跟十二職等退休的跟現役的公務員他們的興奉我們來看到七職等退休是五萬\n\n16\n00:05:38,476 --> 00:05:56,982\n但是現值的是三萬九九指等是六萬三千五那麼現役的是四萬七十二指等是七點八萬然後現役的是五點三萬我先說了我沒有要挑起任何世代上面的差距我只想問以現在這樣的數據跟數字的話\n\n17\n00:06:01,485 --> 00:06:01,605\n三）委員張智倫\n\n18\n00:06:16,565 --> 00:06:31,326\n我用觀眾的話來講以現在現在這樣的一個狀況那麼我們當然希望讓退休的公務員能夠獲得一定的溫飽獲得一定的生活必須而且要給他尊嚴\n\n19\n00:06:33,035 --> 00:06:49,060\n那麼這樣子如果說依照現行的提案修法然後又改成所得替代率不要再往下再往下降的時候這個會不會變成是退休的比在工作的還要領得多討論退休制度的退休者那個所得方案合理化會計\n\n20\n00:06:55,862 --> 00:06:56,583\n撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案\n\n21\n00:07:06,831 --> 00:07:33,969\n所以這也是本席希望今天我們透過巡達主席的安排我們讓很多事情能夠清楚的被社會大眾瞭解因為就像我說的那句話每一個人家庭都一定找得到一位軍公教人員所以我們希望的是整體的社會過去的爭端爭議不要再起而且在公酬的部分其實都是一個合理的狀況也讓退休的軍公教能夠獲得一定的保障謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12521\t15882\t撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）\n35970\t50232\t第六第七條條文修正草案案。那麼在第六第七年的這個過程當中不知道我們全序部當中有沒有委外來做民調或者是有沒有掌握到一些民調就是真的如同現在國民黨提案委員認為的\n51474\t75743\t真的導致了這些退休的軍公教人員尤其是公務員造成他們的生活困頓或是生活不易甚至於說隨著我們所謂講的物價上漲造成了他們活不下去嗎又或者是讓他們的生活上面出現了什麼困難嗎那權敘部針對這個部分有沒有什麼樣的了解\n76323\t94465\t我跟委員報告我想我們的法例明文規定即使是退休人員在年改後他都還是隨著物價指數5%左右就開始或者每四年會檢討所以都還是有定期的一個調整並不是沒有沒有調整那至於說每個人退休所得有多少因為會跟他\n94986\t99689\t撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具\n115625\t117266\t公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案\n135703\t160298\t好言下之意就是其實在當年年改的時候也有顧及到就是所謂物價波動這個部分雖然說我們的所得替代率是有在逐年的下降但是另外一方面隨著物價該上漲該調整的我們還是有做適時的反應對嗎沒有錯而且這是全世界幾乎主要國家都是對退休人員所得調整的方式\n160958\t179850\t所以說本席要讓你來看一個這是幾次我找到的在2018年的時候針對軍公教的年改當時是55%的民眾滿意那麼在到2024年的5月那麼其實還是有六成的民眾覺得年改事實上這樣的一條改革的道路\n180791\t184992\t撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n208777\t221747\t撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第13條條文修正草案．一）立法院第13會期司法及法制委員會第14會期司法及法制委員會第15會期司法及法制委員會第16會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第18會期司法及法制委員會第18會期司法及法制委員會第18會期司法及法制委員會第19會期司法及法制委員會第19會期司法及法制委員會第19會期司法及法制委員會第20會期司法及法制委員會第20會期\n225629\t250086\t例如本席家裡有人是軍人也有人是教師所以其實這個題目當你一定要面臨要做改革的時候其實是跟我們全國的每一個人都有關所以為什麼今天值得在這裡詢答也希望部長能夠來做一些回應提供我們更多的資料跟資訊因為這不只是整個國家整體的問題\n251247\t268313\t更是接下來年輕世代如果他要報考公務員如果他要成為教師或者是他要從軍報國的時候他所擔憂的那就是接下來當我年資滿了可以退休了當我服役完了之後我要退役的時候\n269073\t272695\t我的所謂未來的退休金有沒有保障我想部長你也能夠同意當時我們從2017、2018在推年改的時候其實想法都是一樣的我們要解決的是讓它能夠永續所以這也是為什麼我相信今天質詢當中這個圖這一句話部長已經看了沒要看了我是第幾個我是第20個起來可能看第20遍了\n293507\t317330\t那馬英九也講過雖然說馬英九現在講的話跟過去講的話不一定是一樣的啦齁但是這個東西就實實在在的可以感受到他也不是藍綠的問題他也不是職業別的問題他是整體世代跟整體台灣人的問題齁主席站起來我會儘量遵守時間包括當年關中也講了就是政府讓你養老\n318251\t337276\t可不是讓你養尊處優所以這也是我一剛開始講的一個命題所以這裡是我拿到的資料我也請部長來看一下這是以2024年我找了七職等九職等跟十二職等退休的跟現役的公務員他們的興奉我們來看到七職等退休是五萬\n338476\t356982\t但是現值的是三萬九九指等是六萬三千五那麼現役的是四萬七十二指等是七點八萬然後現役的是五點三萬我先說了我沒有要挑起任何世代上面的差距我只想問以現在這樣的數據跟數字的話\n361485\t361605\t三）委員張智倫\n376565\t391326\t我用觀眾的話來講以現在現在這樣的一個狀況那麼我們當然希望讓退休的公務員能夠獲得一定的溫飽獲得一定的生活必須而且要給他尊嚴\n393035\t409060\t那麼這樣子如果說依照現行的提案修法然後又改成所得替代率不要再往下再往下降的時候這個會不會變成是退休的比在工作的還要領得多討論退休制度的退休者那個所得方案合理化會計\n415862\t416583\t撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案 案\n426831\t453969\t所以這也是本席希望今天我們透過巡達主席的安排我們讓很多事情能夠清楚的被社會大眾瞭解因為就像我說的那句話每一個人家庭都一定找得到一位軍公教人員所以我們希望的是整體的社會過去的爭端爭議不要再起而且在公酬的部分其實都是一個合理的狀況也讓退休的軍公教能夠獲得一定的保障謝謝\n","txt":"撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）\n第六第七條條文修正草案案。那麼在第六第七年的這個過程當中不知道我們全序部當中有沒有委外來做民調或者是有沒有掌握到一些民調就是真的如同現在國民黨提案委員認為的\n真的導致了這些退休的軍公教人員尤其是公務員造成他們的生活困頓或是生活不易甚至於說隨著我們所謂講的物價上漲造成了他們活不下去嗎又或者是讓他們的生活上面出現了什麼困難嗎那權敘部針對這個部分有沒有什麼樣的了解\n我跟委員報告我想我們的法例明文規定即使是退休人員在年改後他都還是隨著物價指數5%左右就開始或者每四年會檢討所以都還是有定期的一個調整並不是沒有沒有調整那至於說每個人退休所得有多少因為會跟他\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具\n公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案\n好言下之意就是其實在當年年改的時候也有顧及到就是所謂物價波動這個部分雖然說我們的所得替代率是有在逐年的下降但是另外一方面隨著物價該上漲該調整的我們還是有做適時的反應對嗎沒有錯而且這是全世界幾乎主要國家都是對退休人員所得調整的方式\n所以說本席要讓你來看一個這是幾次我找到的在2018年的時候針對軍公教的年改當時是55%的民眾滿意那麼在到2024年的5月那麼其實還是有六成的民眾覺得年改事實上這樣的一條改革的道路\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第13條條文修正草案．一）立法院第13會期司法及法制委員會第14會期司法及法制委員會第15會期司法及法制委員會第16會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第18會期司法及法制委員會第18會期司法及法制委員會第18會期司法及法制委員會第19會期司法及法制委員會第19會期司法及法制委員會第19會期司法及法制委員會第20會期司法及法制委員會第20會期\n例如本席家裡有人是軍人也有人是教師所以其實這個題目當你一定要面臨要做改革的時候其實是跟我們全國的每一個人都有關所以為什麼今天值得在這裡詢答也希望部長能夠來做一些回應提供我們更多的資料跟資訊因為這不只是整個國家整體的問題\n更是接下來年輕世代如果他要報考公務員如果他要成為教師或者是他要從軍報國的時候他所擔憂的那就是接下來當我年資滿了可以退休了當我服役完了之後我要退役的時候\n我的所謂未來的退休金有沒有保障我想部長你也能夠同意當時我們從2017、2018在推年改的時候其實想法都是一樣的我們要解決的是讓它能夠永續所以這也是為什麼我相信今天質詢當中這個圖這一句話部長已經看了沒要看了我是第幾個我是第20個起來可能看第20遍了\n那馬英九也講過雖然說馬英九現在講的話跟過去講的話不一定是一樣的啦齁但是這個東西就實實在在的可以感受到他也不是藍綠的問題他也不是職業別的問題他是整體世代跟整體台灣人的問題齁主席站起來我會儘量遵守時間包括當年關中也講了就是政府讓你養老\n可不是讓你養尊處優所以這也是我一剛開始講的一個命題所以這裡是我拿到的資料我也請部長來看一下這是以2024年我找了七職等九職等跟十二職等退休的跟現役的公務員他們的興奉我們來看到七職等退休是五萬\n但是現值的是三萬九九指等是六萬三千五那麼現役的是四萬七十二指等是七點八萬然後現役的是五點三萬我先說了我沒有要挑起任何世代上面的差距我只想問以現在這樣的數據跟數字的話\n三）委員張智倫\n我用觀眾的話來講以現在現在這樣的一個狀況那麼我們當然希望讓退休的公務員能夠獲得一定的溫飽獲得一定的生活必須而且要給他尊嚴\n那麼這樣子如果說依照現行的提案修法然後又改成所得替代率不要再往下再往下降的時候這個會不會變成是退休的比在工作的還要領得多討論退休制度的退休者那個所得方案合理化會計\n撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案 案\n所以這也是本席希望今天我們透過巡達主席的安排我們讓很多事情能夠清楚的被社會大眾瞭解因為就像我說的那句話每一個人家庭都一定找得到一位軍公教人員所以我們希望的是整體的社會過去的爭端爭議不要再起而且在公酬的部分其實都是一個合理的狀況也讓退休的軍公教能夠獲得一定的保障謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.521 --> 00:15.882\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）\n\n00:35.970 --> 00:50.232\n第六第七條條文修正草案案。那麼在第六第七年的這個過程當中不知道我們全序部當中有沒有委外來做民調或者是有沒有掌握到一些民調就是真的如同現在國民黨提案委員認為的\n\n00:51.474 --> 01:15.743\n真的導致了這些退休的軍公教人員尤其是公務員造成他們的生活困頓或是生活不易甚至於說隨著我們所謂講的物價上漲造成了他們活不下去嗎又或者是讓他們的生活上面出現了什麼困難嗎那權敘部針對這個部分有沒有什麼樣的了解\n\n01:16.323 --> 01:34.465\n我跟委員報告我想我們的法例明文規定即使是退休人員在年改後他都還是隨著物價指數5%左右就開始或者每四年會檢討所以都還是有定期的一個調整並不是沒有沒有調整那至於說每個人退休所得有多少因為會跟他\n\n01:34.986 --> 01:39.689\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具\n\n01:55.625 --> 01:57.266\n公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案\n\n02:15.703 --> 02:40.298\n好言下之意就是其實在當年年改的時候也有顧及到就是所謂物價波動這個部分雖然說我們的所得替代率是有在逐年的下降但是另外一方面隨著物價該上漲該調整的我們還是有做適時的反應對嗎沒有錯而且這是全世界幾乎主要國家都是對退休人員所得調整的方式\n\n02:40.958 --> 02:59.850\n所以說本席要讓你來看一個這是幾次我找到的在2018年的時候針對軍公教的年改當時是55%的民眾滿意那麼在到2024年的5月那麼其實還是有六成的民眾覺得年改事實上這樣的一條改革的道路\n\n03:00.791 --> 03:04.992\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n\n03:28.777 --> 03:41.747\n撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第13條條文修正草案．一）立法院第13會期司法及法制委員會第14會期司法及法制委員會第15會期司法及法制委員會第16會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第18會期司法及法制委員會第18會期司法及法制委員會第18會期司法及法制委員會第19會期司法及法制委員會第19會期司法及法制委員會第19會期司法及法制委員會第20會期司法及法制委員會第20會期\n\n03:45.629 --> 04:10.086\n例如本席家裡有人是軍人也有人是教師所以其實這個題目當你一定要面臨要做改革的時候其實是跟我們全國的每一個人都有關所以為什麼今天值得在這裡詢答也希望部長能夠來做一些回應提供我們更多的資料跟資訊因為這不只是整個國家整體的問題\n\n04:11.247 --> 04:28.313\n更是接下來年輕世代如果他要報考公務員如果他要成為教師或者是他要從軍報國的時候他所擔憂的那就是接下來當我年資滿了可以退休了當我服役完了之後我要退役的時候\n\n04:29.073 --> 04:32.695\n我的所謂未來的退休金有沒有保障我想部長你也能夠同意當時我們從2017、2018在推年改的時候其實想法都是一樣的我們要解決的是讓它能夠永續所以這也是為什麼我相信今天質詢當中這個圖這一句話部長已經看了沒要看了我是第幾個我是第20個起來可能看第20遍了\n\n04:53.507 --> 05:17.330\n那馬英九也講過雖然說馬英九現在講的話跟過去講的話不一定是一樣的啦齁但是這個東西就實實在在的可以感受到他也不是藍綠的問題他也不是職業別的問題他是整體世代跟整體台灣人的問題齁主席站起來我會儘量遵守時間包括當年關中也講了就是政府讓你養老\n\n05:18.251 --> 05:37.276\n可不是讓你養尊處優所以這也是我一剛開始講的一個命題所以這裡是我拿到的資料我也請部長來看一下這是以2024年我找了七職等九職等跟十二職等退休的跟現役的公務員他們的興奉我們來看到七職等退休是五萬\n\n05:38.476 --> 05:56.982\n但是現值的是三萬九九指等是六萬三千五那麼現役的是四萬七十二指等是七點八萬然後現役的是五點三萬我先說了我沒有要挑起任何世代上面的差距我只想問以現在這樣的數據跟數字的話\n\n06:01.485 --> 06:01.605\n三）委員張智倫\n\n06:16.565 --> 06:31.326\n我用觀眾的話來講以現在現在這樣的一個狀況那麼我們當然希望讓退休的公務員能夠獲得一定的溫飽獲得一定的生活必須而且要給他尊嚴\n\n06:33.035 --> 06:49.060\n那麼這樣子如果說依照現行的提案修法然後又改成所得替代率不要再往下再往下降的時候這個會不會變成是退休的比在工作的還要領得多討論退休制度的退休者那個所得方案合理化會計\n\n06:55.862 --> 06:56.583\n撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案\n\n07:06.831 --> 07:33.969\n所以這也是本席希望今天我們透過巡達主席的安排我們讓很多事情能夠清楚的被社會大眾瞭解因為就像我說的那句話每一個人家庭都一定找得到一位軍公教人員所以我們希望的是整體的社會過去的爭端爭議不要再起而且在公酬的部分其實都是一個合理的狀況也讓退休的軍公教能夠獲得一定的保障謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.521,"end":15.882,"text":"撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）"},{"start":35.97,"end":50.232,"text":"第六第七條條文修正草案案。那麼在第六第七年的這個過程當中不知道我們全序部當中有沒有委外來做民調或者是有沒有掌握到一些民調就是真的如同現在國民黨提案委員認為的"},{"start":51.474,"end":75.743,"text":"真的導致了這些退休的軍公教人員尤其是公務員造成他們的生活困頓或是生活不易甚至於說隨著我們所謂講的物價上漲造成了他們活不下去嗎又或者是讓他們的生活上面出現了什麼困難嗎那權敘部針對這個部分有沒有什麼樣的了解"},{"start":76.323,"end":94.465,"text":"我跟委員報告我想我們的法例明文規定即使是退休人員在年改後他都還是隨著物價指數5%左右就開始或者每四年會檢討所以都還是有定期的一個調整並不是沒有沒有調整那至於說每個人退休所得有多少因為會跟他"},{"start":94.986,"end":99.689,"text":"撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具"},{"start":115.625,"end":117.266,"text":"公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案"},{"start":135.703,"end":160.298,"text":"好言下之意就是其實在當年年改的時候也有顧及到就是所謂物價波動這個部分雖然說我們的所得替代率是有在逐年的下降但是另外一方面隨著物價該上漲該調整的我們還是有做適時的反應對嗎沒有錯而且這是全世界幾乎主要國家都是對退休人員所得調整的方式"},{"start":160.958,"end":179.85,"text":"所以說本席要讓你來看一個這是幾次我找到的在2018年的時候針對軍公教的年改當時是55%的民眾滿意那麼在到2024年的5月那麼其實還是有六成的民眾覺得年改事實上這樣的一條改革的道路"},{"start":180.791,"end":184.992,"text":"撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會"},{"start":208.777,"end":221.747,"text":"撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第13條條文修正草案．一）立法院第13會期司法及法制委員會第14會期司法及法制委員會第15會期司法及法制委員會第16會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第18會期司法及法制委員會第18會期司法及法制委員會第18會期司法及法制委員會第19會期司法及法制委員會第19會期司法及法制委員會第19會期司法及法制委員會第20會期司法及法制委員會第20會期"},{"start":225.629,"end":250.086,"text":"例如本席家裡有人是軍人也有人是教師所以其實這個題目當你一定要面臨要做改革的時候其實是跟我們全國的每一個人都有關所以為什麼今天值得在這裡詢答也希望部長能夠來做一些回應提供我們更多的資料跟資訊因為這不只是整個國家整體的問題"},{"start":251.247,"end":268.313,"text":"更是接下來年輕世代如果他要報考公務員如果他要成為教師或者是他要從軍報國的時候他所擔憂的那就是接下來當我年資滿了可以退休了當我服役完了之後我要退役的時候"},{"start":269.073,"end":272.695,"text":"我的所謂未來的退休金有沒有保障我想部長你也能夠同意當時我們從2017、2018在推年改的時候其實想法都是一樣的我們要解決的是讓它能夠永續所以這也是為什麼我相信今天質詢當中這個圖這一句話部長已經看了沒要看了我是第幾個我是第20個起來可能看第20遍了"},{"start":293.507,"end":317.33,"text":"那馬英九也講過雖然說馬英九現在講的話跟過去講的話不一定是一樣的啦齁但是這個東西就實實在在的可以感受到他也不是藍綠的問題他也不是職業別的問題他是整體世代跟整體台灣人的問題齁主席站起來我會儘量遵守時間包括當年關中也講了就是政府讓你養老"},{"start":318.251,"end":337.276,"text":"可不是讓你養尊處優所以這也是我一剛開始講的一個命題所以這裡是我拿到的資料我也請部長來看一下這是以2024年我找了七職等九職等跟十二職等退休的跟現役的公務員他們的興奉我們來看到七職等退休是五萬"},{"start":338.476,"end":356.982,"text":"但是現值的是三萬九九指等是六萬三千五那麼現役的是四萬七十二指等是七點八萬然後現役的是五點三萬我先說了我沒有要挑起任何世代上面的差距我只想問以現在這樣的數據跟數字的話"},{"start":361.485,"end":361.605,"text":"三）委員張智倫"},{"start":376.565,"end":391.326,"text":"我用觀眾的話來講以現在現在這樣的一個狀況那麼我們當然希望讓退休的公務員能夠獲得一定的溫飽獲得一定的生活必須而且要給他尊嚴"},{"start":393.035,"end":409.06,"text":"那麼這樣子如果說依照現行的提案修法然後又改成所得替代率不要再往下再往下降的時候這個會不會變成是退休的比在工作的還要領得多討論退休制度的退休者那個所得方案合理化會計"},{"start":415.862,"end":416.583,"text":"撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案 案"},{"start":426.831,"end":453.969,"text":"所以這也是本席希望今天我們透過巡達主席的安排我們讓很多事情能夠清楚的被社會大眾瞭解因為就像我說的那句話每一個人家庭都一定找得到一位軍公教人員所以我們希望的是整體的社會過去的爭端爭議不要再起而且在公酬的部分其實都是一個合理的狀況也讓退休的軍公教能夠獲得一定的保障謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1125,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（15時7分）謝謝主席。主席，有請施部長。"],["主席：麻煩施部長。"],["施部長能傑：委員好。"],["林委員楚茵：部長好。我想跟您請問，有關於軍公教的年改，到現在經過多少年了？"],["施部長能傑：從民國107年開始實施，現在是第六年、第七年了。"],["林委員楚茵：好。那麼在第六年、第七年的這個過程當中，不知道我們銓敘部有沒有委外來做民調，或者是有沒有掌握到一些民調，就是真的如同現在國民黨提案委員認為的，真的導致了這些退休的軍公教人員，尤其是公務員，生活困頓或是生活不易？甚至於說，隨著物價上漲，造成了他們活不下去嗎？又或者是讓他們的生活上面出現了什麼困難嗎？銓敘部針對這個部分，有沒有什麼樣的瞭解？"],["施部長能傑：跟委員報告，我們的法律明文規定，即使是退休人員的退休金，在年改以後都還是隨著物價指數一旦上漲到5%左右，就開始調整，或者每四年會檢討，所以都還是有定期調整，並不是沒有調整。至於每個人退休所得有多少，因為會跟他任職的時候擔任哪一個職等有關，算起來的金額會不一樣，用社會的角度來講，有人可能到現在還是滿高的，有人可能比較低，根據我們的報告，算出來的結果，以今年來講，所有退休人員，公務人員這個部分，七成左右大概都在5萬元以上，大概是這樣的一個數字。"],["林委員楚茵：言下之意就是過去有幾波現職軍公教調薪，其實退休的公務員、教師、榮民弟兄，他們的退休金也有跟著來調整，是嗎？"],["施部長能傑：是跟著物價指數的變動。"],["林委員楚茵：好。言下之意就是，其實在當年年改的時候，也有顧及物價波動，雖然所得替代率是逐年下降，但是另外一方面，隨著物價上漲，該上漲的、該調整的，我們還是有適時反映，對嗎？"],["施部長能傑：沒有錯，而且這是全世界，幾乎主要國家，對退休人員所得調整的方式。"],["林委員楚茵：是，所以說本席要讓你看一個數據，這是我找到的，在2018年的時候，針對軍公教的年改，當時是55%的民眾滿意，來到2024年5月，其實還是有六成的民眾覺得對年改這樣一條改革的道路是滿意的，裡面還特別問了所謂的「藍粉」，當然，我覺得藍粉這樣的形容可能很多人不能真的完全精準地表達，但是我相信他們就是支持國民黨或者是在政治立場上不是支持民進黨的，這部分也有38%是支持的，我相信原因很多，但其中有一個最重要的應該就是整體來說，是不是一個職業的對立，它其實是在解決世代差異或解決世代上面的問題。","我曾經聽過一個形容，其實在臺灣的社會當中，每一個家庭裡面都可以找到一位軍公教人員，像本席家裡有人是軍人，也有人是教師，所以當一定要面臨改革的時候，其實是跟我們全國每一個人都有關。所以為什麼今天值得在這裡詢答，也希望部長能夠做一些回應，提供我們更多的資料跟資訊，因為這不只是國家整體的問題，更是接下來年輕世代如果要報考公務員，如果要成為教師，或者是如果要從軍報國，他們所擔憂的。就是接下來當他們年資滿了，可以退休了，服役完了之後要退役的時候，未來他們的退休金有沒有保障。我想部長你也能夠同意，當時我們從2017年、2018年在推年改的時候，其實想法都是一樣的，我們要解決的是讓年金制度能夠永續，所以這也是為什麼要做的原因。","我今天質詢當中出示的這個圖、這一句話，部長應該已經看到不要看了，我是第幾個？我是第20個發言的，你可能看到第20次了。馬英九也講過，雖然說馬英九現在講的話跟過去講的話不一定是一樣的，但是這個東西就實實在在地讓人可以感受到，它不是藍綠的問題，也不是職業別的問題，它是整體世代跟整體臺灣人的問題。","主席站起來了，我會儘量遵守時間。","當年關中也講了，政府讓你養老，可不是讓你養尊處優，所以這也是我一開始講的一個命題。這是我拿到的資料，我也請部長來看一下，2024年我找了七職等、九職等跟十二職等，退休跟現役公務員的薪俸，我們來看，七職等退休金是5萬，但是現職的是3萬9,000，九職等是6萬3,500，現役的是4萬7,000，十二職等是7萬8,000，然後現役的是5萬3,000。我先說了，我沒有要挑起任何世代上面的差距，我只是想問，以現在這樣的數據跟數字，首先，我所獲得的這個數據跟數字正確嗎？這是本薪嘛，對不對？"],["施部長能傑：就退休公務人員來講，這部分是正確的，但是現職公務人員這部分可能只算本俸，沒有算專業加給，我在猜是這樣一個方式。"],["林委員楚茵：好，那麼言下之意就是，我用關中的話來講，以現在這樣一個狀況，我們當然希望讓退休的公務員能夠獲得一定的溫飽，獲得一定的生活必需，而且要給他尊嚴，如果依照現行的提案修法，然後又改成所得替代率不要再往下降的時候，會不會變成退休的比在工作的領得還要多？"],["施部長能傑：這也是我們在討論退休制度的退休者所得方案合理化時，特別要另外考量的部分，我們都不希望退休者的退休所得跟現職的幾乎相近，這是不好的事情。"],["林委員楚茵：好，所以本席希望今天我們透過主席安排的詢答，讓很多事情能夠清楚地被社會大眾了解，因為就像我說的那一句話，每一個人的家庭都一定找得到一位軍公教人員，所以我們希望的是整體社會過去的爭端、爭議不要再起，而且在工酬的部分都是處於合理的狀況，也讓退休的軍公教人員能夠獲得一定的保障。謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。還是要麻煩各位委員注意一下，因為現在登記發言的委員已經有67位，快70位，現在才進行到20位，我們議事人員跟部會首長也很辛苦，還是請大家能夠儘量注意時間。","好，下一位我們請張雅琳委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-18","speakers":["吳宗憲","賴士葆","翁曉玲","張嘉郡","羅智強","黃建賓","林思銘","張智倫","黃健豪","許宇甄","鍾佳濱","吳思瑤","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","王義川","李彥秀","吳沛憶","沈伯洋","林宜瑾","陳俊宇","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","林德福","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","李坤城","林楚茵","張雅琳","黃秀芳","林淑芬","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","陳素月","徐富癸","賴惠員","吳秉叡","許智傑","陳培瑜","郭國文"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-05"],"gazette_id":"1140301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)委員賴士葆等31人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」\n案、(二)委員賴士葆等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(三)\n委員張智倫等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員張嘉\n郡等23人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員賴士葆等26人\n擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「公\n務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條、第三十八條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員邱鎮\n軍等25 人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、( 八) 國民黨黨團擬具\n「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員林思銘等26人擬具「公務人\n員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十)委員陳超明等19人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員許宇甄等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員張智倫等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三條、第八條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員馬文君等20人擬具「公務人員退\n休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員傅崐萁等21人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員黃建賓等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十八)委員陳玉珍等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十\n八條條文修正草案」案、(二十)委員羅智強等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條\n文修正草案」案；二、併案審查(一)委員李彥秀等18人擬具「公務人員任用法第三十六條之一條\n文修正草案」案、(二)委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「公務人員任用法第二十八條之一條文修正草案」\n案","agenda_id":"1140301_00001"}}}