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\"score\": 0.664}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 293.329, \"end\": 293.37, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 293.37, \"end\": 293.493, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"足\", \"start\": 293.493, \"end\": 293.513, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,593 --> 00:00:07,507\n審查結束之後我們休息五分鐘謝謝謝謝主席我們請部長麻煩部長\n\n2\n00:00:12,386 --> 00:00:32,972\n主席你好部長辛苦了部長我想請教我相信從今天早上到現在應該蠻多委員關心有關這個退服基金如果照這樣子的一個版本修改的話可能退服基金會提早破產那我想請教如果說這個提早破產會提早到幾年\n\n3\n00:00:33,952 --> 00:00:34,072\n三）委員\n\n4\n00:00:53,562 --> 00:01:22,261\n這中間的時候其實大家一直在討論這個年改年金改革那也透過這個當時的這個副總統陳建仁副總統召集這個年金改革會議那一個一個的提出討論再交由這個立院來審理修正那通過這個年金改革的方案那我相信已經實施了六七年的這個時間那最主要是希望這個年金能夠永續\n\n5\n00:01:23,382 --> 00:01:39,885\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案。」案。况此,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話\n\n6\n00:01:52,867 --> 00:01:55,610\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案。」\n\n7\n00:02:06,434 --> 00:02:24,505\n撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會及法制委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18\n\n8\n00:02:33,970 --> 00:02:34,971\n撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n9\n00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:53,360\n法定人數不足\n\n10\n00:03:13,932 --> 00:03:21,938\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員\n\n11\n00:03:38,251 --> 00:03:53,400\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案案件不符合現在的這個他的這個生活費然後可能會造成他的這個生活會受到一些影響那我想請教就是說針對這些退休的公務人員所提出來的你們有在這個每年針對這個物價指數然後針對這個退休金有做一個調整嗎\n\n12\n00:03:58,110 --> 00:04:22,709\n我們法律本來就規定兩個條件要去調整一個就是說當那個物價指數累積到5%的時候我們就要調整另外即使沒有到5%每四年都應該去檢討所以我們過去六七年調整兩次第一次調整的時候其實物價指數沒有到5%是四年我們去調整第二次因為後最近幾年物價波動多所以5%的時候我們就調整我想是這樣一個方式\n\n13\n00:04:24,009 --> 00:04:51,059\n我認為在六七年前這個年金改革當時民進黨執政黨非常負責任的將這個年金改革做一個希望說這個年金是能夠永續那很可惜就是說國民黨跟民眾黨如果在這時候又要走回頭路的話其實對現任的公務人員其實是不公平的所以我們希望說這個可能大家要三思謝謝\n\n14\n00:04:53,166 --> 00:04:53,513\n法定人數不足\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1593\t7507\t審查結束之後我們休息五分鐘謝謝謝謝主席我們請部長麻煩部長\n12386\t32972\t主席你好部長辛苦了部長我想請教我相信從今天早上到現在應該蠻多委員關心有關這個退服基金如果照這樣子的一個版本修改的話可能退服基金會提早破產那我想請教如果說這個提早破產會提早到幾年\n33952\t34072\t三）委員\n53562\t82261\t這中間的時候其實大家一直在討論這個年改年金改革那也透過這個當時的這個副總統陳建仁副總統召集這個年金改革會議那一個一個的提出討論再交由這個立院來審理修正那通過這個年金改革的方案那我相信已經實施了六七年的這個時間那最主要是希望這個年金能夠永續\n83382\t99885\t撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案。」案。况此,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話\n112867\t115610\t撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案。」\n126434\t144505\t撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會及法制委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18\n153970\t154971\t撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n173200\t173360\t法定人數不足\n193932\t201938\t撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員\n218251\t233400\t撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案 案件不符合現在的這個他的這個生活費然後可能會造成他的這個生活會受到一些影響那我想請教就是說針對這些退休的公務人員所提出來的你們有在這個每年針對這個物價指數然後針對這個退休金有做一個調整嗎\n238110\t262709\t我們法律本來就規定兩個條件要去調整一個就是說當那個物價指數累積到5%的時候我們就要調整另外即使沒有到5%每四年都應該去檢討所以我們過去六七年調整兩次第一次調整的時候其實物價指數沒有到5%是四年我們去調整第二次因為後最近幾年物價波動多所以5%的時候我們就調整我想是這樣一個方式\n264009\t291059\t我認為在六七年前這個年金改革當時民進黨執政黨非常負責任的將這個年金改革做一個希望說這個年金是能夠永續那很可惜就是說國民黨跟民眾黨如果在這時候又要走回頭路的話其實對現任的公務人員其實是不公平的所以我們希望說這個可能大家要三思謝謝\n293166\t293513\t法定人數不足\n","txt":"審查結束之後我們休息五分鐘謝謝謝謝主席我們請部長麻煩部長\n主席你好部長辛苦了部長我想請教我相信從今天早上到現在應該蠻多委員關心有關這個退服基金如果照這樣子的一個版本修改的話可能退服基金會提早破產那我想請教如果說這個提早破產會提早到幾年\n三）委員\n這中間的時候其實大家一直在討論這個年改年金改革那也透過這個當時的這個副總統陳建仁副總統召集這個年金改革會議那一個一個的提出討論再交由這個立院來審理修正那通過這個年金改革的方案那我相信已經實施了六七年的這個時間那最主要是希望這個年金能夠永續\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案。」案。况此,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案。」\n撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會及法制委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18\n撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n法定人數不足\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案 案件不符合現在的這個他的這個生活費然後可能會造成他的這個生活會受到一些影響那我想請教就是說針對這些退休的公務人員所提出來的你們有在這個每年針對這個物價指數然後針對這個退休金有做一個調整嗎\n我們法律本來就規定兩個條件要去調整一個就是說當那個物價指數累積到5%的時候我們就要調整另外即使沒有到5%每四年都應該去檢討所以我們過去六七年調整兩次第一次調整的時候其實物價指數沒有到5%是四年我們去調整第二次因為後最近幾年物價波動多所以5%的時候我們就調整我想是這樣一個方式\n我認為在六七年前這個年金改革當時民進黨執政黨非常負責任的將這個年金改革做一個希望說這個年金是能夠永續那很可惜就是說國民黨跟民眾黨如果在這時候又要走回頭路的話其實對現任的公務人員其實是不公平的所以我們希望說這個可能大家要三思謝謝\n法定人數不足\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.593 --> 00:07.507\n審查結束之後我們休息五分鐘謝謝謝謝主席我們請部長麻煩部長\n\n00:12.386 --> 00:32.972\n主席你好部長辛苦了部長我想請教我相信從今天早上到現在應該蠻多委員關心有關這個退服基金如果照這樣子的一個版本修改的話可能退服基金會提早破產那我想請教如果說這個提早破產會提早到幾年\n\n00:33.952 --> 00:34.072\n三）委員\n\n00:53.562 --> 01:22.261\n這中間的時候其實大家一直在討論這個年改年金改革那也透過這個當時的這個副總統陳建仁副總統召集這個年金改革會議那一個一個的提出討論再交由這個立院來審理修正那通過這個年金改革的方案那我相信已經實施了六七年的這個時間那最主要是希望這個年金能夠永續\n\n01:23.382 --> 01:39.885\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案。」案。况此,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話\n\n01:52.867 --> 01:55.610\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案。」\n\n02:06.434 --> 02:24.505\n撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會及法制委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18\n\n02:33.970 --> 02:34.971\n撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n02:53.200 --> 02:53.360\n法定人數不足\n\n03:13.932 --> 03:21.938\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員\n\n03:38.251 --> 03:53.400\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案案件不符合現在的這個他的這個生活費然後可能會造成他的這個生活會受到一些影響那我想請教就是說針對這些退休的公務人員所提出來的你們有在這個每年針對這個物價指數然後針對這個退休金有做一個調整嗎\n\n03:58.110 --> 04:22.709\n我們法律本來就規定兩個條件要去調整一個就是說當那個物價指數累積到5%的時候我們就要調整另外即使沒有到5%每四年都應該去檢討所以我們過去六七年調整兩次第一次調整的時候其實物價指數沒有到5%是四年我們去調整第二次因為後最近幾年物價波動多所以5%的時候我們就調整我想是這樣一個方式\n\n04:24.009 --> 04:51.059\n我認為在六七年前這個年金改革當時民進黨執政黨非常負責任的將這個年金改革做一個希望說這個年金是能夠永續那很可惜就是說國民黨跟民眾黨如果在這時候又要走回頭路的話其實對現任的公務人員其實是不公平的所以我們希望說這個可能大家要三思謝謝\n\n04:53.166 --> 04:53.513\n法定人數不足\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.593,"end":7.507,"text":"審查結束之後我們休息五分鐘謝謝謝謝主席我們請部長麻煩部長"},{"start":12.386,"end":32.972,"text":"主席你好部長辛苦了部長我想請教我相信從今天早上到現在應該蠻多委員關心有關這個退服基金如果照這樣子的一個版本修改的話可能退服基金會提早破產那我想請教如果說這個提早破產會提早到幾年"},{"start":33.952,"end":34.072,"text":"三）委員"},{"start":53.562,"end":82.261,"text":"這中間的時候其實大家一直在討論這個年改年金改革那也透過這個當時的這個副總統陳建仁副總統召集這個年金改革會議那一個一個的提出討論再交由這個立院來審理修正那通過這個年金改革的方案那我相信已經實施了六七年的這個時間那最主要是希望這個年金能夠永續"},{"start":83.382,"end":99.885,"text":"撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案。」案。况此,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話,若不改革的話"},{"start":112.867,"end":115.61,"text":"撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案。」"},{"start":126.434,"end":144.505,"text":"撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會及法制委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18"},{"start":153.97,"end":154.971,"text":"撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．"},{"start":173.2,"end":173.36,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":193.932,"end":201.938,"text":"撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員"},{"start":218.251,"end":233.4,"text":"撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案 案件不符合現在的這個他的這個生活費然後可能會造成他的這個生活會受到一些影響那我想請教就是說針對這些退休的公務人員所提出來的你們有在這個每年針對這個物價指數然後針對這個退休金有做一個調整嗎"},{"start":238.11,"end":262.709,"text":"我們法律本來就規定兩個條件要去調整一個就是說當那個物價指數累積到5%的時候我們就要調整另外即使沒有到5%每四年都應該去檢討所以我們過去六七年調整兩次第一次調整的時候其實物價指數沒有到5%是四年我們去調整第二次因為後最近幾年物價波動多所以5%的時候我們就調整我想是這樣一個方式"},{"start":264.009,"end":291.059,"text":"我認為在六七年前這個年金改革當時民進黨執政黨非常負責任的將這個年金改革做一個希望說這個年金是能夠永續那很可惜就是說國民黨跟民眾黨如果在這時候又要走回頭路的話其實對現任的公務人員其實是不公平的所以我們希望說這個可能大家要三思謝謝"},{"start":293.166,"end":293.513,"text":"法定人數不足"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1189,"blocks":[["黃委員秀芳：（15時22分）謝謝主席，我們請部長。"],["主席：麻煩部長。"],["施部長能傑：委員好。"],["黃委員秀芳：部長，辛苦了。部長，我想請教，我相信從今天早上到現在，應該滿多委員關心退撫基金，如果照這樣子的版本修改的話，退撫基金可能會提早破產，那我想請教，如果會提早破產，會提早到幾年？"],["施部長能傑：以現在來估算，大概在民國135年。本來預估在民國140年……"],["黃委員秀芳：是。"],["施部長能傑：那就提早4到5年左右。"],["黃委員秀芳：所以其實我要講的就是說，應該是在2016年到2017年中間的時候，大家一直在討論年金改革，也透過當時的副總統陳建仁副總統召開年金改革會議，一個一個提出討論，再交由立院來審理修正，通過年金改革方案，而且已經實施了6、7年。最主要是希望年金能夠永續，尤其是我們現在是老年化、少子化，如果不改革的話，照剛剛部長講的，我們的退撫基金可能會提早破產，那其實對於在職的年輕公務人員是不公平的。之前也有幾位國民黨的委員提到，是不是用撥補的方式，因為這幾年政府的歲入都有超收，建議是不是用撥補的方式。那我想請教，萬一經濟不景氣，稅收減少，那還是不是要撥補？我認為撥補不是一個永續的、好的方案，所以我是不是可以請部長先說明一下？"],["施部長能傑：所以年改的方案就明白講，只要年改每一年度節省下來的經費全數挹注給年改基金，所以你可以理解為，只是不用撥補這個字眼，每年都有穩定的財源回到基金，所以才能夠讓基金有更多的錢可以去投資，然後如果我們投資效益好，效益就會更大，所以就可以穩定那個基金用罄的年度，如果完全依賴這個撥補，那是政府本身財政上的大調度。"],["黃委員秀芳：是。所以用撥補的方式，其實也是用人民的納稅金。"],["施部長能傑：對，沒錯。"],["黃委員秀芳：所以我認為這不是一個好的方式，那我想要請教，部長，我們剛剛有講，如果照目前的現況，從年改到現在，我們的年改基金也許可以用到民國140年左右，那當然我們也會去滾動地檢討，因為也有很多公務人員會提到，由於物價上漲，照現在的年金改革，他們會覺得現在的退休金不符合現在的生活費，可能會造成他們的生活受到一些影響，那我想請教，針對這些退休的公務人員所提出來的問題，你們每年有在針對物價指數，針對退休金，做一個調整嗎？"],["施部長能傑：是的。我們的法律本來就規定要依據兩個條件去調整，一個就是說當物價指數累積到5%的時候，我們就要調整。另外，即使沒有到5%，每4年都應該去檢討，所以我們過去6、7年調整兩次，第一次調整的時候，其實物價指數沒有到5%，是到4年我們去調整；第二次是因為最近幾年物價波動多，所以到5%的時候我們就調整，我想是這樣的一個方式。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，那我是認為，在6、7年前進行年金改革，當時執政黨民進黨非常負責任地推行年金改革，希望這個年金能夠永續。很可惜的是，國民黨跟民眾黨如果在這個時候走回頭路的話，其實對現任公務人員是不公平的，所以我們希望大家要三思。好，謝謝。"],["主席：依據先前宣告，我們休息5分鐘。謝謝。","休息（15時27分）","繼續開會（15時32分）"],["主席：好，謝謝。我們繼續開會。","接下來我們請林俊憲委員。林俊憲委員、林俊憲委員。","接下來我們請林淑芬委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-18","speakers":["吳宗憲","賴士葆","翁曉玲","張嘉郡","羅智強","黃建賓","林思銘","張智倫","黃健豪","許宇甄","鍾佳濱","吳思瑤","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","王義川","李彥秀","吳沛憶","沈伯洋","林宜瑾","陳俊宇","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","林德福","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","李坤城","林楚茵","張雅琳","黃秀芳","林淑芬","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","陳素月","徐富癸","賴惠員","吳秉叡","許智傑","陳培瑜","郭國文"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-05"],"gazette_id":"1140301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)委員賴士葆等31人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」\n案、(二)委員賴士葆等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(三)\n委員張智倫等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員張嘉\n郡等23人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員賴士葆等26人\n擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「公\n務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條、第三十八條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員邱鎮\n軍等25 人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、( 八) 國民黨黨團擬具\n「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員林思銘等26人擬具「公務人\n員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十)委員陳超明等19人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員許宇甄等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員張智倫等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三條、第八條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員馬文君等20人擬具「公務人員退\n休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員傅崐萁等21人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員黃建賓等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十八)委員陳玉珍等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十\n八條條文修正草案」案、(二十)委員羅智強等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條\n文修正草案」案；二、併案審查(一)委員李彥秀等18人擬具「公務人員任用法第三十六條之一條\n文修正草案」案、(二)委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「公務人員任用法第二十八條之一條文修正草案」\n案","agenda_id":"1140301_00001"}}}