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\"員\"}, {\"word\": \"賴\"}, {\"word\": \"士\", \"start\": 486.114, \"end\": 486.274, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"葆\", \"start\": 486.274, \"end\": 486.394, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 486.394, \"end\": 486.515, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 486.515, \"end\": 486.715, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"擬\"}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 486.715, \"end\": 486.735, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,103 --> 00:00:21,412\n主席各位大家午安喔是不是請我們這個人事總處人事長麻煩人事長部長你很開心喔終於可以喝一口水了午安午安叫人事長幫你代打OK來人事長\n\n2\n00:00:22,822 --> 00:00:34,573\n是這樣子的就是說我們勞動部因為這個勞發署那台北分署發生了無姓員工這個不幸的事件\n\n3\n00:00:36,183 --> 00:00:59,488\n這裏面的調查報告我們都很不滿意當然這個跟你也有一點相關這個調查報告行政調查報告現在已經成為謝芬署長法律上攻防拿回來打著勞動部的調查報告回來法律上再打這個勞動部一把的這個鎖本的這個依據\n\n4\n00:01:00,988 --> 00:01:18,023\n那這裡面我比較在乎的是說不是只有霸凌的申訴的制度其中有一項我特別看到的是說他因為承辦這個資訊業務的計畫那他的直屬長官叫他限期要繳出來\n\n5\n00:01:19,885 --> 00:01:35,167\n實際上他是一個很認真而且求好心切的不是擺爛的那種公務員所以剛好是相反的因為他很認真所以他覺得他沒有辦法完成辜負了這樣的一個期待那這樣子\n\n6\n00:01:36,482 --> 00:01:55,613\n但是呢檢視一下他們那個單位大家檢討說他們那個單位的人力配置就是說他的業務很多也很繁雜他的單位他的辦公室裡面有五個人力還有其他五個人力可是那五個呢是業務承攬就是說勞務承攬的人員\n\n7\n00:01:59,415 --> 00:02:00,136\n三）委員張智倫等16人擬具«公務人員退休資遣\n\n8\n00:02:15,970 --> 00:02:16,670\n三）委員張智倫等16人擬具\n\n9\n00:02:36,089 --> 00:02:49,847\n我今天有質詢是沒有正照的不專業的未來的失業者在做現在的幫現在的失業者找工作的工作那這個裡面呢變成勞務承攬有一個問題就是\n\n10\n00:02:53,140 --> 00:02:56,924\n撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會及法制委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n\n11\n00:03:14,141 --> 00:03:18,244\n所以對公務人員來講從派遣變成勞務承攬他反而有很多的限制他不能夠指揮監督所以他能夠幫忙公務人員解決問題的人手變少而且少很多\n\n12\n00:03:37,239 --> 00:03:55,152\n所以這個勞役上非常的不均那很多單位是一個公務人員指揮六個十個這個勞務承攬的以前還是指揮沒有指揮現在沒有指揮權以前還是指揮這個派遣公司的員工的現在完全都沒有這個問題你怎麼看\n\n13\n00:03:57,322 --> 00:04:10,596\n我跟委員報告一下,大概就分兩個部分,就是說這些派遣的或者勞務承攬的這些人力,事實上我們現在已經有在內部在檢討,因為遺害用這種人,用了很多人。\n\n14\n00:04:14,656 --> 00:04:23,840\n本身正職的公務人員的比例相對低。這問題我們內部已經在討論準備要到勞動部來討論看以未來的人力需求是怎樣。這部分我們已經初步上已經有規劃出,因為他的工作,他的組織,整個勞動部跟勞發署他整個組織結構人力需求我們已經在盤。第二個部分\n\n15\n00:04:43,988 --> 00:05:12,335\n派一個分屬的一個資訊人員去做那個政策規劃我是覺得這個是有檢討的空間。人事長我看你的資歷喔你是資訊專家然後你在國稅局的資歷相當的豐富那你相當對於這個資訊的業務也很熟悉在人事總處應該有資訊上管理上的專業你就這個事情有沒有辦法再更精進的看法\n\n16\n00:05:16,038 --> 00:05:31,505\n這件事我在看人工智慧的這種政策規劃的loadingsuppose應該是在勞發署、署本部或者是在勞動部的資訊處不可以丟給一個市級機關的人市級機關基本上就是說你系統結束之後\n\n17\n00:05:35,367 --> 00:05:48,709\n撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員張智倫\n\n18\n00:06:04,132 --> 00:06:18,844\n核心業務等了一個四級機關的一個公務人員去搬,搬不出來,然後才發生不幸的事件,他是導火線嘛。結果三級機關沒有統整這個需求,在更上面的勞動部也沒有,不過這個\n\n19\n00:06:20,045 --> 00:06:40,479\n這個就不歸你管了我比較想派遣跟承攬以外就是說你說勞發署這個人事業務我覺得很奇怪因為你們就原有所控制在那裡你們也不增加人事費用可是明明都有人事的需求在那裡那你們就覺得說還要增加1.5個月年終獎金啊還要很多這個額外的成本啊但是你用派遣用派遣用承攬\n\n20\n00:06:47,964 --> 00:06:48,825\n法定人數不足\n\n21\n00:06:54,726 --> 00:07:17,914\n根本上我們政府的運作是由各種類型的,或是科技就來的、或是業聘的、或是業務的,各式各樣的人組成。不過這一次的事件,我想我們內部已經重新再來檢視整個勞動部,甚至老華署他真正需要的人力,結果我們會協助他去做。\n\n22\n00:07:18,594 --> 00:07:25,861\n我為什麼問這個問題是因為核心業務啊有些單位的核心業務啊是以前是派遣的人在蓋章的有現在可能是勞務承攬的人在蓋章的啊你要說要核心業務給這種人在蓋章他要怎麼去負責扛責我就搞不清楚了\n\n23\n00:07:37,116 --> 00:07:48,223\n我不曉得現在我們會一併納件來檢討啦就是大家都要開這個錢這樣說還不可以再增加臨時支出啊明明就需要這個臨時支出你還說不可以增加啊啊約聘僱也沒有還不是約聘僱去蓋那個核心業務的章勒是派遣和那個業務承攬的勞務承攬的人在蓋那個章這樣合理嗎所以臨時的這個僱員約聘僱都沒有辦法\n\n24\n00:08:05,994 --> 00:08:06,735\n三）委員賴士葆等19人擬具\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3103\t21412\t主席各位大家午安喔是不是請我們這個人事總處人事長麻煩人事長部長你很開心喔終於可以喝一口水了午安午安叫人事長幫你代打OK來人事長\n22822\t34573\t是這樣子的就是說我們勞動部因為這個勞發署那台北分署發生了無姓員工這個不幸的事件\n36183\t59488\t這裏面的調查報告我們都很不滿意當然這個跟你也有一點相關這個調查報告行政調查報告現在已經成為謝芬署長法律上攻防拿回來打著勞動部的調查報告回來法律上再打這個勞動部一把的這個鎖本的這個依據\n60988\t78023\t那這裡面我比較在乎的是說不是只有霸凌的申訴的制度其中有一項我特別看到的是說他因為承辦這個資訊業務的計畫那他的直屬長官叫他限期要繳出來\n79885\t95167\t實際上他是一個很認真而且求好心切的不是擺爛的那種公務員所以剛好是相反的因為他很認真所以他覺得他沒有辦法完成辜負了這樣的一個期待那這樣子\n96482\t115613\t但是呢檢視一下他們那個單位大家檢討說他們那個單位的人力配置就是說他的業務很多也很繁雜他的單位他的辦公室裡面有五個人力還有其他五個人力可是那五個呢是業務承攬就是說勞務承攬的人員\n119415\t120136\t三）委員張智倫等16人擬具 «公務人員退休資遣\n135970\t136670\t三）委員張智倫等16人擬具\n156089\t169847\t我今天有質詢是沒有正照的不專業的未來的失業者在做現在的幫現在的失業者找工作的工作那這個裡面呢變成勞務承攬有一個問題就是\n173140\t176924\t撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會及法制委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n194141\t198244\t所以對公務人員來講從派遣變成勞務承攬他反而有很多的限制他不能夠指揮監督所以他能夠幫忙公務人員解決問題的人手變少而且少很多\n217239\t235152\t所以這個勞役上非常的不均那很多單位是一個公務人員指揮六個十個這個勞務承攬的以前還是指揮沒有指揮現在沒有指揮權以前還是指揮這個派遣公司的員工的現在完全都沒有這個問題你怎麼看\n237322\t250596\t我跟委員報告一下,大概就分兩個部分,就是說這些派遣的或者勞務承攬的這些人力,事實上我們現在已經有在內部在檢討,因為遺害用這種人,用了很多人。\n254656\t263840\t本身正職的公務人員的比例相對低。這問題我們內部已經在討論準備要到勞動部來討論看以未來的人力需求是怎樣。這部分我們已經初步上已經有規劃出,因為他的工作,他的組織,整個勞動部跟勞發署他整個組織結構人力需求我們已經在盤。第二個部分\n283988\t312335\t派一個分屬的一個資訊人員去做那個政策規劃我是覺得這個是有檢討的空間。人事長我看你的資歷喔你是資訊專家然後你在國稅局的資歷相當的豐富那你相當對於這個資訊的業務也很熟悉在人事總處應該有資訊上管理上的專業你就這個事情有沒有辦法再更精進的看法\n316038\t331505\t這件事我在看人工智慧的這種政策規劃的loadingsuppose應該是在勞發署、署本部或者是在勞動部的資訊處 不可以丟給一個市級機關的人市級機關基本上就是說你系統結束之後\n335367\t348709\t撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員張智倫\n364132\t378844\t核心業務等了一個四級機關的一個公務人員去搬,搬不出來,然後才發生不幸的事件,他是導火線嘛。結果三級機關沒有統整這個需求,在更上面的勞動部也沒有,不過這個\n380045\t400479\t這個就不歸你管了我比較想派遣跟承攬以外就是說你說勞發署這個人事業務我覺得很奇怪因為你們就原有所控制在那裡你們也不增加人事費用可是明明都有人事的需求在那裡那你們就覺得說還要增加1.5個月年終獎金啊還要很多這個額外的成本啊但是你用派遣用派遣用承攬\n407964\t408825\t法定人數不足\n414726\t437914\t根本上我們政府的運作是由各種類型的,或是科技就來的、或是業聘的、或是業務的,各式各樣的人組成。不過這一次的事件,我想我們內部已經重新再來檢視整個勞動部,甚至老華署他真正需要的人力,結果我們會協助他去做。\n438594\t445861\t我為什麼問這個問題是因為核心業務啊有些單位的核心業務啊是以前是派遣的人在蓋章的有現在可能是勞務承攬的人在蓋章的啊你要說要核心業務給這種人在蓋章他要怎麼去負責扛責我就搞不清楚了\n457116\t468223\t我不曉得現在我們會一併納件來檢討啦就是大家都要開這個錢這樣說還不可以再增加臨時支出啊明明就需要這個臨時支出你還說不可以增加啊啊約聘僱也沒有還不是約聘僱去蓋那個核心業務的章勒是派遣和那個業務承攬的勞務承攬的人在蓋那個章這樣合理嗎所以臨時的這個僱員約聘僱都沒有辦法\n485994\t486735\t三）委員賴士葆等19人擬具\n","txt":"主席各位大家午安喔是不是請我們這個人事總處人事長麻煩人事長部長你很開心喔終於可以喝一口水了午安午安叫人事長幫你代打OK來人事長\n是這樣子的就是說我們勞動部因為這個勞發署那台北分署發生了無姓員工這個不幸的事件\n這裏面的調查報告我們都很不滿意當然這個跟你也有一點相關這個調查報告行政調查報告現在已經成為謝芬署長法律上攻防拿回來打著勞動部的調查報告回來法律上再打這個勞動部一把的這個鎖本的這個依據\n那這裡面我比較在乎的是說不是只有霸凌的申訴的制度其中有一項我特別看到的是說他因為承辦這個資訊業務的計畫那他的直屬長官叫他限期要繳出來\n實際上他是一個很認真而且求好心切的不是擺爛的那種公務員所以剛好是相反的因為他很認真所以他覺得他沒有辦法完成辜負了這樣的一個期待那這樣子\n但是呢檢視一下他們那個單位大家檢討說他們那個單位的人力配置就是說他的業務很多也很繁雜他的單位他的辦公室裡面有五個人力還有其他五個人力可是那五個呢是業務承攬就是說勞務承攬的人員\n三）委員張智倫等16人擬具 «公務人員退休資遣\n三）委員張智倫等16人擬具\n我今天有質詢是沒有正照的不專業的未來的失業者在做現在的幫現在的失業者找工作的工作那這個裡面呢變成勞務承攬有一個問題就是\n撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會及法制委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n所以對公務人員來講從派遣變成勞務承攬他反而有很多的限制他不能夠指揮監督所以他能夠幫忙公務人員解決問題的人手變少而且少很多\n所以這個勞役上非常的不均那很多單位是一個公務人員指揮六個十個這個勞務承攬的以前還是指揮沒有指揮現在沒有指揮權以前還是指揮這個派遣公司的員工的現在完全都沒有這個問題你怎麼看\n我跟委員報告一下,大概就分兩個部分,就是說這些派遣的或者勞務承攬的這些人力,事實上我們現在已經有在內部在檢討,因為遺害用這種人,用了很多人。\n本身正職的公務人員的比例相對低。這問題我們內部已經在討論準備要到勞動部來討論看以未來的人力需求是怎樣。這部分我們已經初步上已經有規劃出,因為他的工作,他的組織,整個勞動部跟勞發署他整個組織結構人力需求我們已經在盤。第二個部分\n派一個分屬的一個資訊人員去做那個政策規劃我是覺得這個是有檢討的空間。人事長我看你的資歷喔你是資訊專家然後你在國稅局的資歷相當的豐富那你相當對於這個資訊的業務也很熟悉在人事總處應該有資訊上管理上的專業你就這個事情有沒有辦法再更精進的看法\n這件事我在看人工智慧的這種政策規劃的loadingsuppose應該是在勞發署、署本部或者是在勞動部的資訊處 不可以丟給一個市級機關的人市級機關基本上就是說你系統結束之後\n撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員張智倫\n核心業務等了一個四級機關的一個公務人員去搬,搬不出來,然後才發生不幸的事件,他是導火線嘛。結果三級機關沒有統整這個需求,在更上面的勞動部也沒有,不過這個\n這個就不歸你管了我比較想派遣跟承攬以外就是說你說勞發署這個人事業務我覺得很奇怪因為你們就原有所控制在那裡你們也不增加人事費用可是明明都有人事的需求在那裡那你們就覺得說還要增加1.5個月年終獎金啊還要很多這個額外的成本啊但是你用派遣用派遣用承攬\n法定人數不足\n根本上我們政府的運作是由各種類型的,或是科技就來的、或是業聘的、或是業務的,各式各樣的人組成。不過這一次的事件,我想我們內部已經重新再來檢視整個勞動部,甚至老華署他真正需要的人力,結果我們會協助他去做。\n我為什麼問這個問題是因為核心業務啊有些單位的核心業務啊是以前是派遣的人在蓋章的有現在可能是勞務承攬的人在蓋章的啊你要說要核心業務給這種人在蓋章他要怎麼去負責扛責我就搞不清楚了\n我不曉得現在我們會一併納件來檢討啦就是大家都要開這個錢這樣說還不可以再增加臨時支出啊明明就需要這個臨時支出你還說不可以增加啊啊約聘僱也沒有還不是約聘僱去蓋那個核心業務的章勒是派遣和那個業務承攬的勞務承攬的人在蓋那個章這樣合理嗎所以臨時的這個僱員約聘僱都沒有辦法\n三）委員賴士葆等19人擬具\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.103 --> 00:21.412\n主席各位大家午安喔是不是請我們這個人事總處人事長麻煩人事長部長你很開心喔終於可以喝一口水了午安午安叫人事長幫你代打OK來人事長\n\n00:22.822 --> 00:34.573\n是這樣子的就是說我們勞動部因為這個勞發署那台北分署發生了無姓員工這個不幸的事件\n\n00:36.183 --> 00:59.488\n這裏面的調查報告我們都很不滿意當然這個跟你也有一點相關這個調查報告行政調查報告現在已經成為謝芬署長法律上攻防拿回來打著勞動部的調查報告回來法律上再打這個勞動部一把的這個鎖本的這個依據\n\n01:00.988 --> 01:18.023\n那這裡面我比較在乎的是說不是只有霸凌的申訴的制度其中有一項我特別看到的是說他因為承辦這個資訊業務的計畫那他的直屬長官叫他限期要繳出來\n\n01:19.885 --> 01:35.167\n實際上他是一個很認真而且求好心切的不是擺爛的那種公務員所以剛好是相反的因為他很認真所以他覺得他沒有辦法完成辜負了這樣的一個期待那這樣子\n\n01:36.482 --> 01:55.613\n但是呢檢視一下他們那個單位大家檢討說他們那個單位的人力配置就是說他的業務很多也很繁雜他的單位他的辦公室裡面有五個人力還有其他五個人力可是那五個呢是業務承攬就是說勞務承攬的人員\n\n01:59.415 --> 02:00.136\n三）委員張智倫等16人擬具«公務人員退休資遣\n\n02:15.970 --> 02:16.670\n三）委員張智倫等16人擬具\n\n02:36.089 --> 02:49.847\n我今天有質詢是沒有正照的不專業的未來的失業者在做現在的幫現在的失業者找工作的工作那這個裡面呢變成勞務承攬有一個問題就是\n\n02:53.140 --> 02:56.924\n撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會及法制委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n\n03:14.141 --> 03:18.244\n所以對公務人員來講從派遣變成勞務承攬他反而有很多的限制他不能夠指揮監督所以他能夠幫忙公務人員解決問題的人手變少而且少很多\n\n03:37.239 --> 03:55.152\n所以這個勞役上非常的不均那很多單位是一個公務人員指揮六個十個這個勞務承攬的以前還是指揮沒有指揮現在沒有指揮權以前還是指揮這個派遣公司的員工的現在完全都沒有這個問題你怎麼看\n\n03:57.322 --> 04:10.596\n我跟委員報告一下,大概就分兩個部分,就是說這些派遣的或者勞務承攬的這些人力,事實上我們現在已經有在內部在檢討,因為遺害用這種人,用了很多人。\n\n04:14.656 --> 04:23.840\n本身正職的公務人員的比例相對低。這問題我們內部已經在討論準備要到勞動部來討論看以未來的人力需求是怎樣。這部分我們已經初步上已經有規劃出,因為他的工作,他的組織,整個勞動部跟勞發署他整個組織結構人力需求我們已經在盤。第二個部分\n\n04:43.988 --> 05:12.335\n派一個分屬的一個資訊人員去做那個政策規劃我是覺得這個是有檢討的空間。人事長我看你的資歷喔你是資訊專家然後你在國稅局的資歷相當的豐富那你相當對於這個資訊的業務也很熟悉在人事總處應該有資訊上管理上的專業你就這個事情有沒有辦法再更精進的看法\n\n05:16.038 --> 05:31.505\n這件事我在看人工智慧的這種政策規劃的loadingsuppose應該是在勞發署、署本部或者是在勞動部的資訊處不可以丟給一個市級機關的人市級機關基本上就是說你系統結束之後\n\n05:35.367 --> 05:48.709\n撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員張智倫\n\n06:04.132 --> 06:18.844\n核心業務等了一個四級機關的一個公務人員去搬,搬不出來,然後才發生不幸的事件,他是導火線嘛。結果三級機關沒有統整這個需求,在更上面的勞動部也沒有,不過這個\n\n06:20.045 --> 06:40.479\n這個就不歸你管了我比較想派遣跟承攬以外就是說你說勞發署這個人事業務我覺得很奇怪因為你們就原有所控制在那裡你們也不增加人事費用可是明明都有人事的需求在那裡那你們就覺得說還要增加1.5個月年終獎金啊還要很多這個額外的成本啊但是你用派遣用派遣用承攬\n\n06:47.964 --> 06:48.825\n法定人數不足\n\n06:54.726 --> 07:17.914\n根本上我們政府的運作是由各種類型的,或是科技就來的、或是業聘的、或是業務的,各式各樣的人組成。不過這一次的事件,我想我們內部已經重新再來檢視整個勞動部,甚至老華署他真正需要的人力,結果我們會協助他去做。\n\n07:18.594 --> 07:25.861\n我為什麼問這個問題是因為核心業務啊有些單位的核心業務啊是以前是派遣的人在蓋章的有現在可能是勞務承攬的人在蓋章的啊你要說要核心業務給這種人在蓋章他要怎麼去負責扛責我就搞不清楚了\n\n07:37.116 --> 07:48.223\n我不曉得現在我們會一併納件來檢討啦就是大家都要開這個錢這樣說還不可以再增加臨時支出啊明明就需要這個臨時支出你還說不可以增加啊啊約聘僱也沒有還不是約聘僱去蓋那個核心業務的章勒是派遣和那個業務承攬的勞務承攬的人在蓋那個章這樣合理嗎所以臨時的這個僱員約聘僱都沒有辦法\n\n08:05.994 --> 08:06.735\n三）委員賴士葆等19人擬具\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.103,"end":21.412,"text":"主席各位大家午安喔是不是請我們這個人事總處人事長麻煩人事長部長你很開心喔終於可以喝一口水了午安午安叫人事長幫你代打OK來人事長"},{"start":22.822,"end":34.573,"text":"是這樣子的就是說我們勞動部因為這個勞發署那台北分署發生了無姓員工這個不幸的事件"},{"start":36.183,"end":59.488,"text":"這裏面的調查報告我們都很不滿意當然這個跟你也有一點相關這個調查報告行政調查報告現在已經成為謝芬署長法律上攻防拿回來打著勞動部的調查報告回來法律上再打這個勞動部一把的這個鎖本的這個依據"},{"start":60.988,"end":78.023,"text":"那這裡面我比較在乎的是說不是只有霸凌的申訴的制度其中有一項我特別看到的是說他因為承辦這個資訊業務的計畫那他的直屬長官叫他限期要繳出來"},{"start":79.885,"end":95.167,"text":"實際上他是一個很認真而且求好心切的不是擺爛的那種公務員所以剛好是相反的因為他很認真所以他覺得他沒有辦法完成辜負了這樣的一個期待那這樣子"},{"start":96.482,"end":115.613,"text":"但是呢檢視一下他們那個單位大家檢討說他們那個單位的人力配置就是說他的業務很多也很繁雜他的單位他的辦公室裡面有五個人力還有其他五個人力可是那五個呢是業務承攬就是說勞務承攬的人員"},{"start":119.415,"end":120.136,"text":"三）委員張智倫等16人擬具 «公務人員退休資遣"},{"start":135.97,"end":136.67,"text":"三）委員張智倫等16人擬具"},{"start":156.089,"end":169.847,"text":"我今天有質詢是沒有正照的不專業的未來的失業者在做現在的幫現在的失業者找工作的工作那這個裡面呢變成勞務承攬有一個問題就是"},{"start":173.14,"end":176.924,"text":"撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會及法制委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會"},{"start":194.141,"end":198.244,"text":"所以對公務人員來講從派遣變成勞務承攬他反而有很多的限制他不能夠指揮監督所以他能夠幫忙公務人員解決問題的人手變少而且少很多"},{"start":217.239,"end":235.152,"text":"所以這個勞役上非常的不均那很多單位是一個公務人員指揮六個十個這個勞務承攬的以前還是指揮沒有指揮現在沒有指揮權以前還是指揮這個派遣公司的員工的現在完全都沒有這個問題你怎麼看"},{"start":237.322,"end":250.596,"text":"我跟委員報告一下,大概就分兩個部分,就是說這些派遣的或者勞務承攬的這些人力,事實上我們現在已經有在內部在檢討,因為遺害用這種人,用了很多人。"},{"start":254.656,"end":263.84,"text":"本身正職的公務人員的比例相對低。這問題我們內部已經在討論準備要到勞動部來討論看以未來的人力需求是怎樣。這部分我們已經初步上已經有規劃出,因為他的工作,他的組織,整個勞動部跟勞發署他整個組織結構人力需求我們已經在盤。第二個部分"},{"start":283.988,"end":312.335,"text":"派一個分屬的一個資訊人員去做那個政策規劃我是覺得這個是有檢討的空間。人事長我看你的資歷喔你是資訊專家然後你在國稅局的資歷相當的豐富那你相當對於這個資訊的業務也很熟悉在人事總處應該有資訊上管理上的專業你就這個事情有沒有辦法再更精進的看法"},{"start":316.038,"end":331.505,"text":"這件事我在看人工智慧的這種政策規劃的loadingsuppose應該是在勞發署、署本部或者是在勞動部的資訊處 不可以丟給一個市級機關的人市級機關基本上就是說你系統結束之後"},{"start":335.367,"end":348.709,"text":"撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員張智倫等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案．一）委員張智倫"},{"start":364.132,"end":378.844,"text":"核心業務等了一個四級機關的一個公務人員去搬,搬不出來,然後才發生不幸的事件,他是導火線嘛。結果三級機關沒有統整這個需求,在更上面的勞動部也沒有,不過這個"},{"start":380.045,"end":400.479,"text":"這個就不歸你管了我比較想派遣跟承攬以外就是說你說勞發署這個人事業務我覺得很奇怪因為你們就原有所控制在那裡你們也不增加人事費用可是明明都有人事的需求在那裡那你們就覺得說還要增加1.5個月年終獎金啊還要很多這個額外的成本啊但是你用派遣用派遣用承攬"},{"start":407.964,"end":408.825,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":414.726,"end":437.914,"text":"根本上我們政府的運作是由各種類型的,或是科技就來的、或是業聘的、或是業務的,各式各樣的人組成。不過這一次的事件,我想我們內部已經重新再來檢視整個勞動部,甚至老華署他真正需要的人力,結果我們會協助他去做。"},{"start":438.594,"end":445.861,"text":"我為什麼問這個問題是因為核心業務啊有些單位的核心業務啊是以前是派遣的人在蓋章的有現在可能是勞務承攬的人在蓋章的啊你要說要核心業務給這種人在蓋章他要怎麼去負責扛責我就搞不清楚了"},{"start":457.116,"end":468.223,"text":"我不曉得現在我們會一併納件來檢討啦就是大家都要開這個錢這樣說還不可以再增加臨時支出啊明明就需要這個臨時支出你還說不可以增加啊啊約聘僱也沒有還不是約聘僱去蓋那個核心業務的章勒是派遣和那個業務承攬的勞務承攬的人在蓋那個章這樣合理嗎所以臨時的這個僱員約聘僱都沒有辦法"},{"start":485.994,"end":486.735,"text":"三）委員賴士葆等19人擬具"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1208,"blocks":[["林委員淑芬：（15時33分）主席、各位，大家午安。是不是請人事總處人事長？"],["主席：麻煩人事長。"],["林委員淑芬：部長，你很開心喔。終於可以喝一口水了，叫人事長幫你代打。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：委員午安。"],["林委員淑芬：人事長，勞動部因為勞發署北分署發生了吳姓員工不幸的事件，調查報告我們都很不滿意，當然這個跟你也有一點相關，行政調查報告現在已經成為謝分署長法律上攻防的依據，他在法律上倒打勞動部一耙，這個調查報告就是他所本的依據。這裡面我比較在乎的，不是只有霸凌的申訴制度，我特別看到其中有一項是說，吳姓員工承辦資訊業務的計畫，他的直屬長官叫他限期繳出成果，事實上他是一個很認真而且求好心切的人，不是擺爛的那種公務員，剛好是相反的，因為他很認真，所以他覺得他沒有辦法完成，辜負了這樣的一個期待。","但是檢視一下他們那個單位，大家在檢討他們那個單位的人力配置，那個單位業務很多，也很繁雜。他的辦公室裡面有5個人力，還有其他5個人力，可是那5個是業務承攬，就是勞務承攬的人員。我們知道，政府用的派遣人員一度很多，因為派遣人員當時的勞動條件非常差，所以我們的政府就對外宣示政府機關零派遣，可是零派遣了以後，還是需要人力、人力還是不足。總額管控了以後，我們都知道，勞發署，以前大概有八成的人力是來自於派遣，現在是來自於勞務承攬，所以其實是沒有證照的、不專業的、未來的失業者在做幫現在的失業者找工作的工作。這個部分變成有一個問題，就是對勞務承攬這部分，政府機關的公務人員不能夠指揮監督，以前派遣的時候，他們可以在職務上，要派公司可以說：我用你，你要接受我的指揮監督，要聽從我的，我需要你做什麼，你都要配合我，我現在命令你，叫你要做什麼事情，你都要去做。","以前可以命令，現在變成勞務承攬就不一樣了，所謂的勞務承攬，就是承包範圍的項目以外的工作都不用做，所以對公務人員來講，從派遣變成勞務承攬，反而有很多限制，不能夠指揮監督。所以能夠幫忙公務人員解決問題的人手變少，而且少很多，勞逸非常不均，很多單位是一個公務人員指揮6個、10個勞務承攬的人。以前可以指揮，現在沒有指揮權，以前可以指揮派遣公司的員工，現在完全都沒有人可以指揮，這個問題你怎麼看？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我跟委員報告一下，大概就分兩個部分，這些派遣的或勞務承攬的人力，事實上，我們現在已經有在內部檢討，因為他們那裡用這種人用得很多，本身正職公務人員的比例相對低。"],["林委員淑芬：八成都是。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：對。這個問題我們內部已經在討論，準備要跟勞動部來討論，看他們未來的人力需求是什麼，這部分我們已經有初步規劃，對他們的工作和他們的組織，勞動部跟勞發署的整個組織結構、人力需求，我們已經在談。","第二個部分，派一個分署的資訊人員去做政策規劃，我是覺得這有檢討的空間。"],["林委員淑芬：人事長，我看你的資歷，你是資訊專家，然後你在國稅局的資歷相當豐富，你對於資訊的業務也很熟悉，在人事總處應該也有資訊上、管理上的專業，就這個事情，你有沒有辦法有更精進的看法？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：這件事情依我看，人工智慧政策規劃的loading，suppose應該是在勞發署署本部，或者是在勞動部的資訊處，不可以丟給一個四級機關，基本上應該是系統設計好以後交給分署，讓分署來測試某些功能是不是符合需求，請一個四級機關的人直接去做政策規劃，我是覺得那個工作指派有一點點檢討的空間。"],["林委員淑芬：我覺得你這一點見解相當不錯，大概很多人沒有看到這個爭點，叫一個四級機關的人去做資訊業務，把整個AI資訊管理統整的核心業務丟給四級機關的一個公務人員去辦，辦不出來，然後才發生不幸的事件，這是導火線嘛。結果三級機關沒有統整這個需求，更上面的勞動部也沒有！不過這個就不歸你管了。我比較想說的是，派遣跟承攬以外，勞發署這個人事業務，我覺得很奇怪，因為你們就把員額控制在那裡，也不增加人事費用，可是明明都有人事的需求在那裡，你們就覺得還要增加1.5個月的年終獎金，還要有很多額外的成本，所以就用派遣或承攬，但是用派遣和承攬可以省多少？到底可以省多少？我想不通。到底可以省幾成？你們有算過嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：基本上，我們政府的運作是由各種類型的人員組成，有的是考試進來的，有的是約聘的，有的是約僱的，是由各式各樣的人組成，不過針對這一次的事件，我們內部已經重新再來檢視整個勞動部，甚至勞發署，這些單位真正需要的人力結構，我們也會協助他們去改善。"],["林委員淑芬：我為什麼會問這個問題？是因為核心業務，有些單位的核心業務以前是派遣的人在蓋章的，有的現在可能是勞務承攬的人在蓋章的，把核心業務交給這種人來蓋章，他要怎麼去負責、扛責？我就搞不清楚了。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我們會一併納進來檢討。"],["林委員淑芬：大家都要花這些錢，又說不可以再增加人事支出，明明就需要這些人事支出，卻說不可以增加。約聘僱也沒有增加，而且還不是約聘僱去蓋那個核心業務的章，是派遣和勞務承攬的人在蓋那個章，這樣合理嗎？連臨時的約聘僱人員都沒有辦法，我是覺得也是有一點誇張。主席都已經站起來了，主席，我剛剛把我的問題講完，就已經4分鐘了。"],["主席：不好意思，因為今天登記的人有67位，所以要控制一下時間，謝謝。"],["林委員淑芬：這樣啊？沒關係啦，我洗刷我的污名，他們都說林淑芬一說就要30分鐘，我今天證明不用10分鐘，我自己自動下台。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝委員。好，下一位我們請陳秀寳委員發言。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你可以講35分。"],["主席：不要這樣啦，有67位委員登記發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-18","speakers":["吳宗憲","賴士葆","翁曉玲","張嘉郡","羅智強","黃建賓","林思銘","張智倫","黃健豪","許宇甄","鍾佳濱","吳思瑤","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","王義川","李彥秀","吳沛憶","沈伯洋","林宜瑾","陳俊宇","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","林德福","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","李坤城","林楚茵","張雅琳","黃秀芳","林淑芬","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","陳素月","徐富癸","賴惠員","吳秉叡","許智傑","陳培瑜","郭國文"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-05"],"gazette_id":"1140301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)委員賴士葆等31人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」\n案、(二)委員賴士葆等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(三)\n委員張智倫等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員張嘉\n郡等23人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員賴士葆等26人\n擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「公\n務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條、第三十八條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員邱鎮\n軍等25 人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、( 八) 國民黨黨團擬具\n「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員林思銘等26人擬具「公務人\n員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十)委員陳超明等19人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員許宇甄等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員張智倫等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三條、第八條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員馬文君等20人擬具「公務人員退\n休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員傅崐萁等21人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員黃建賓等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十八)委員陳玉珍等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十\n八條條文修正草案」案、(二十)委員羅智強等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條\n文修正草案」案；二、併案審查(一)委員李彥秀等18人擬具「公務人員任用法第三十六條之一條\n文修正草案」案、(二)委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「公務人員任用法第二十八條之一條文修正草案」\n案","agenda_id":"1140301_00001"}}}