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121.36, \"text\": \"這個可能這一個選項就沒辦法了對不對好那我們再來看第二個選項好了齁那第二個選項是我們要提高現職的軍公教人員他們的繳納的金額齁那這個部分對於現職的軍公教他們還在他們的工作崗位上那麼以現在高考三級第六職等本奉一級的薪水來講好了啦齁那這個部分呢他每一個月大概都要繳到將近3700塊錢\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 94.545, \"end\": 94.645, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 94.645, \"end\": 94.966, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 94.966, \"end\": 95.526, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 95.526, \"end\": 95.686, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 95.686, \"end\": 95.986, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 95.986, \"end\": 96.166, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 96.166, \"end\": 96.366, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 96.366, \"end\": 97.087, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 97.087, \"end\": 97.547, \"score\": 0.996}, 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00:02:01,360\n這個可能這一個選項就沒辦法了對不對好那我們再來看第二個選項好了齁那第二個選項是我們要提高現職的軍公教人員他們的繳納的金額齁那這個部分對於現職的軍公教他們還在他們的工作崗位上那麼以現在高考三級第六職等本奉一級的薪水來講好了啦齁那這個部分呢他每一個月大概都要繳到將近3700塊錢\n\n5\n00:02:03,541 --> 00:02:05,322\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案\n\n6\n00:02:20,889 --> 00:02:22,030\n第三個解方有可能是延後退休的年齡\n\n7\n00:02:47,648 --> 00:02:47,848\n法律已經這樣規定了\n\n8\n00:03:08,346 --> 00:03:23,759\n我想這個應該不會限制公務人員可能會有很不一樣的意見好那接著下來我要提到另外一個問題了現行的退休所的替代率對於公務人員的生活有沒有一些影響呢或是對於勞工的部分他有沒有覺得相對被剝奪感呢\n\n9\n00:03:25,660 --> 00:03:25,840\n三）委員張智倫等16人擬具\n\n10\n00:03:44,582 --> 00:04:01,422\n那我們講如果以一般的勞工月領的退休金就是說這些人都沒工作都已經退休啊都已經退休的時候軍公教所領的錢將近五萬一那另外在勞工的部分他們每個月領的退休金是三萬八\n\n11\n00:04:03,767 --> 00:04:29,067\n這個有沒有相對的被剝奪感我想勞工如果在這個部分如果還覺得自己沒有被剝奪感那真的叫做佛心來著啦我想這個也是我特別點出這樣子的一個問題更不用講跟現職我們軍公教的人員來講我想這個受僱光是勞工的部分他的平均薪資是四萬六千多還不到剛剛講的軍公教退休的五萬一勞工會不會跳腳\n\n12\n00:04:30,919 --> 00:04:33,063\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9284\t9724\t三）委員張智倫等16人擬具\n39386\t65794\t公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十三條條文修正草案案。現在我們用這個大水庫已經在支付了一些所謂的軍公教人員的退休金如果停止了所謂的這個退休所得的替代率降低這件事情我們還有沒有其他的解方\n66254\t68755\t撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n94545\t121360\t這個可能這一個選項就沒辦法了對不對好那我們再來看第二個選項好了齁那第二個選項是我們要提高現職的軍公教人員他們的繳納的金額齁那這個部分對於現職的軍公教他們還在他們的工作崗位上那麼以現在高考三級第六職等本奉一級的薪水來講好了啦齁那這個部分呢他每一個月大概都要繳到將近3700塊錢\n123541\t125322\t撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案 案\n140889\t142030\t第三個解方有可能是延後退休的年齡\n167648\t167848\t法律已經這樣規定了\n188346\t203759\t我想這個應該不會限制公務人員可能會有很不一樣的意見好那接著下來我要提到另外一個問題了現行的退休所的替代率對於公務人員的生活有沒有一些影響呢或是對於勞工的部分他有沒有覺得相對被剝奪感呢\n205660\t205840\t三）委員張智倫等16人擬具\n224582\t241422\t那我們講如果以一般的勞工月領的退休金就是說這些人都沒工作都已經退休啊都已經退休的時候軍公教所領的錢將近五萬一那另外在勞工的部分他們每個月領的退休金是三萬八\n243767\t269067\t這個有沒有相對的被剝奪感我想勞工如果在這個部分如果還覺得自己沒有被剝奪感那真的叫做佛心來著啦我想這個也是我特別點出這樣子的一個問題更不用講跟現職我們軍公教的人員來講我想這個受僱光是勞工的部分他的平均薪資是四萬六千多還不到剛剛講的軍公教退休的五萬一勞工會不會跳腳\n270919\t273063\t撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案。\n","txt":"三）委員張智倫等16人擬具\n公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十三條條文修正草案案。現在我們用這個大水庫已經在支付了一些所謂的軍公教人員的退休金如果停止了所謂的這個退休所得的替代率降低這件事情我們還有沒有其他的解方\n撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n這個可能這一個選項就沒辦法了對不對好那我們再來看第二個選項好了齁那第二個選項是我們要提高現職的軍公教人員他們的繳納的金額齁那這個部分對於現職的軍公教他們還在他們的工作崗位上那麼以現在高考三級第六職等本奉一級的薪水來講好了啦齁那這個部分呢他每一個月大概都要繳到將近3700塊錢\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案 案\n第三個解方有可能是延後退休的年齡\n法律已經這樣規定了\n我想這個應該不會限制公務人員可能會有很不一樣的意見好那接著下來我要提到另外一個問題了現行的退休所的替代率對於公務人員的生活有沒有一些影響呢或是對於勞工的部分他有沒有覺得相對被剝奪感呢\n三）委員張智倫等16人擬具\n那我們講如果以一般的勞工月領的退休金就是說這些人都沒工作都已經退休啊都已經退休的時候軍公教所領的錢將近五萬一那另外在勞工的部分他們每個月領的退休金是三萬八\n這個有沒有相對的被剝奪感我想勞工如果在這個部分如果還覺得自己沒有被剝奪感那真的叫做佛心來著啦我想這個也是我特別點出這樣子的一個問題更不用講跟現職我們軍公教的人員來講我想這個受僱光是勞工的部分他的平均薪資是四萬六千多還不到剛剛講的軍公教退休的五萬一勞工會不會跳腳\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.284 --> 00:09.724\n三）委員張智倫等16人擬具\n\n00:39.386 --> 01:05.794\n公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十三條條文修正草案案。現在我們用這個大水庫已經在支付了一些所謂的軍公教人員的退休金如果停止了所謂的這個退休所得的替代率降低這件事情我們還有沒有其他的解方\n\n01:06.254 --> 01:08.755\n撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n01:34.545 --> 02:01.360\n這個可能這一個選項就沒辦法了對不對好那我們再來看第二個選項好了齁那第二個選項是我們要提高現職的軍公教人員他們的繳納的金額齁那這個部分對於現職的軍公教他們還在他們的工作崗位上那麼以現在高考三級第六職等本奉一級的薪水來講好了啦齁那這個部分呢他每一個月大概都要繳到將近3700塊錢\n\n02:03.541 --> 02:05.322\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案\n\n02:20.889 --> 02:22.030\n第三個解方有可能是延後退休的年齡\n\n02:47.648 --> 02:47.848\n法律已經這樣規定了\n\n03:08.346 --> 03:23.759\n我想這個應該不會限制公務人員可能會有很不一樣的意見好那接著下來我要提到另外一個問題了現行的退休所的替代率對於公務人員的生活有沒有一些影響呢或是對於勞工的部分他有沒有覺得相對被剝奪感呢\n\n03:25.660 --> 03:25.840\n三）委員張智倫等16人擬具\n\n03:44.582 --> 04:01.422\n那我們講如果以一般的勞工月領的退休金就是說這些人都沒工作都已經退休啊都已經退休的時候軍公教所領的錢將近五萬一那另外在勞工的部分他們每個月領的退休金是三萬八\n\n04:03.767 --> 04:29.067\n這個有沒有相對的被剝奪感我想勞工如果在這個部分如果還覺得自己沒有被剝奪感那真的叫做佛心來著啦我想這個也是我特別點出這樣子的一個問題更不用講跟現職我們軍公教的人員來講我想這個受僱光是勞工的部分他的平均薪資是四萬六千多還不到剛剛講的軍公教退休的五萬一勞工會不會跳腳\n\n04:30.919 --> 04:33.063\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案。\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.284,"end":9.724,"text":"三）委員張智倫等16人擬具"},{"start":39.386,"end":65.794,"text":"公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第十三條條文修正草案案。現在我們用這個大水庫已經在支付了一些所謂的軍公教人員的退休金如果停止了所謂的這個退休所得的替代率降低這件事情我們還有沒有其他的解方"},{"start":66.254,"end":68.755,"text":"撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．"},{"start":94.545,"end":121.36,"text":"這個可能這一個選項就沒辦法了對不對好那我們再來看第二個選項好了齁那第二個選項是我們要提高現職的軍公教人員他們的繳納的金額齁那這個部分對於現職的軍公教他們還在他們的工作崗位上那麼以現在高考三級第六職等本奉一級的薪水來講好了啦齁那這個部分呢他每一個月大概都要繳到將近3700塊錢"},{"start":123.541,"end":125.322,"text":"撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案 案"},{"start":140.889,"end":142.03,"text":"第三個解方有可能是延後退休的年齡"},{"start":167.648,"end":167.848,"text":"法律已經這樣規定了"},{"start":188.346,"end":203.759,"text":"我想這個應該不會限制公務人員可能會有很不一樣的意見好那接著下來我要提到另外一個問題了現行的退休所的替代率對於公務人員的生活有沒有一些影響呢或是對於勞工的部分他有沒有覺得相對被剝奪感呢"},{"start":205.66,"end":205.84,"text":"三）委員張智倫等16人擬具"},{"start":224.582,"end":241.422,"text":"那我們講如果以一般的勞工月領的退休金就是說這些人都沒工作都已經退休啊都已經退休的時候軍公教所領的錢將近五萬一那另外在勞工的部分他們每個月領的退休金是三萬八"},{"start":243.767,"end":269.067,"text":"這個有沒有相對的被剝奪感我想勞工如果在這個部分如果還覺得自己沒有被剝奪感那真的叫做佛心來著啦我想這個也是我特別點出這樣子的一個問題更不用講跟現職我們軍公教的人員來講我想這個受僱光是勞工的部分他的平均薪資是四萬六千多還不到剛剛講的軍公教退休的五萬一勞工會不會跳腳"},{"start":270.919,"end":273.063,"text":"撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1284,"blocks":[["郭委員昱晴：（15時52分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：麻煩部長。"],["施部長能傑：委員好。"],["郭委員昱晴：部長好。辛苦了，從早上到現在。"],["施部長能傑：哪裡，應該的。"],["郭委員昱晴：那我們先來看一下這個圖，我就用一些比較簡單、能夠讓大家清楚了解的圖示。軍公教的退撫基金像一座大水庫，這個大水庫其實有3個來源，第一個就是政府經費的挹注，再來是現職公務人員每個月工作時要提撥嘛！對不對？另外就是退撫基金的投資獲利對不對？大概是這三樣。現在我們已經用這個大水庫支付了一些軍公教人員的退休金，如果停止退休所得替代率降低，還有沒有其他解方可以因應？要是停止退休所得替代率降低，退撫基金的財務應該怎麼負擔？我第一點就想到，可能要增加政府挹注退撫基金的資金。但是到目前為止，我們看到國民黨在財劃法當中搶中央的財源，那這部分還有錢可以挹注嗎？可能這個選項就沒辦法了，對不對？","那我們再來看第二個選項好了，第二個選項是提高現職軍公教人員所繳納的金額。現職軍公教就是指還在工作崗位上的，以高考三級、第六職等本俸一級的薪水來講好了，這部分每一個月要繳到將近3,700元，大概是7%。以這個7%來講，照我們剛剛講的，如果要停止降低，就要再從現職人員增收，也就是他們要比7%繳更多。你想，對於現職人員而言，他會不會覺得有壓力、會不會跳腳？"],["施部長能傑：我想借用委員剛剛那張圖。沒有錯，如果不是節省經費挹注，就必須考慮別的方式……"],["郭委員昱晴：那就沒辦法嘛！"],["施部長能傑：對現職人員確實會有衝擊。"],["郭委員昱晴：好。如果採第一種方式，政府因為財劃法已經沒錢了，所以不可行。第二個，如果要現職人員繳納更多金額，看起來也不可行。那我們來找第三個解方好了，好不好？第三個解方有可能是延後退休年齡。那我們要不要延後退休的年齡呢？我們知道，從111年起，年資至少要15年，115年起，退休年齡已經一律增加到65歲了。"],["施部長能傑：法律已經這樣規定了。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，但如果真的要這樣的話，水庫的水就是這麼大嘛！就是這麼多嘛！請問有人要延後退休嗎？"],["施部長能傑：我想應該不會，現職公務人員可能會有很不一樣的意見。"],["郭委員昱晴：好。","接下來我要提到另外一個問題了。現行退休所得替代率對於公務人員的生活有沒有一些影響呢？或者對於勞工來說，有沒有相對被剝奪感呢？依照現在退休金實領、實支的月數據統計，一般來講，軍公教大概有七成退休者的退休金──只要他已經退休了，有七成月領退休金將近5萬1！相較於一般勞工月領退休金，也就是說這些人同樣沒有工作、都已經退休之後，軍公教所領的錢將近5萬1，另外，在勞工部分，他們每個月領的退休金是3萬8！這裡有沒有產生相對被剝奪感？如果勞工對這個部分還自己覺得沒有被剝奪感，那真的叫做佛心來的啦！我想我要特別點出這樣的問題。更不用講跟現職軍公教人員相比，光是受雇勞工平均薪資是四萬六千多塊，還不到剛剛講的軍公教退休後的5萬1，勞工會不會跳腳？有可能啦！","好，謝謝主席、謝謝部長，我的詢問就到這邊，讓大家去想一下。"],["主席：謝謝郭委員。","下一位請陳素月委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-18","speakers":["吳宗憲","賴士葆","翁曉玲","張嘉郡","羅智強","黃建賓","林思銘","張智倫","黃健豪","許宇甄","鍾佳濱","吳思瑤","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","王義川","李彥秀","吳沛憶","沈伯洋","林宜瑾","陳俊宇","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","林德福","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","李坤城","林楚茵","張雅琳","黃秀芳","林淑芬","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","陳素月","徐富癸","賴惠員","吳秉叡","許智傑","陳培瑜","郭國文"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-05"],"gazette_id":"1140301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)委員賴士葆等31人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」\n案、(二)委員賴士葆等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(三)\n委員張智倫等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員張嘉\n郡等23人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員賴士葆等26人\n擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「公\n務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條、第三十八條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員邱鎮\n軍等25 人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、( 八) 國民黨黨團擬具\n「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員林思銘等26人擬具「公務人\n員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十)委員陳超明等19人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員許宇甄等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員張智倫等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三條、第八條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員馬文君等20人擬具「公務人員退\n休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員傅崐萁等21人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員黃建賓等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十八)委員陳玉珍等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十\n八條條文修正草案」案、(二十)委員羅智強等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條\n文修正草案」案；二、併案審查(一)委員李彥秀等18人擬具「公務人員任用法第三十六條之一條\n文修正草案」案、(二)委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「公務人員任用法第二十八條之一條文修正草案」\n案","agenda_id":"1140301_00001"}}}