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0.0}, {\"word\": \"．\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,652 --> 00:00:04,293\n法定人數不足\n\n2\n00:00:10,558 --> 00:00:16,562\n司法及法制委員會針對幾位委員針對這個公務人員退休資遣撫卹法的相關條文進行就是這個修正草案的一個討論那白話講就是針對之前的這個年金改革他們希望就是再把它恢復就對了是不是就是\n\n3\n00:00:36,078 --> 00:00:42,213\n這幾個條文法案。當初主要年金改革推動的措施大概這次都變成修正的重點。\n\n4\n00:00:42,722 --> 00:00:43,082\n三（委員張智倫等16人擬具\n\n5\n00:01:12,722 --> 00:01:27,167\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會\n\n6\n00:01:43,746 --> 00:01:58,243\n退休基金就是一個大水庫的理念基於剛剛部長講的這三個理由所以我們也希望就是說讓這個退伏基金可以永續讓之後的年輕世代的公務人員\n\n7\n00:01:59,144 --> 00:02:00,044\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案。」\n\n8\n00:02:18,251 --> 00:02:47,338\n教職退輔基金和勞保基金會在2027年破產而公職退輔基金也會在2031年破產這是賴英九說的然後他也說下任總統或下下任總統遲早都會碰到這個問題社會在這段期間會長期惶恐不安所以他也是主張要進行年金改革的他也講得很明確可是他沒有能力做到\n\n9\n00:02:48,186 --> 00:03:12,361\n他只會嘴巴講講他沒有能力做到我們民進黨執政任內那個小英總統上任之後我們知道這個也是很多國人的一個想法我們也是回應基層的民意所以我們也是就算說背負著說得罪公務人員的這個選票這樣子的一個壓力我們也是來推動這個改革\n\n10\n00:03:13,101 --> 00:03:13,562\n三）委員張智倫等16人擬具\n\n11\n00:03:28,809 --> 00:03:46,464\n對,我們也是經過非常充分的討論我們希望尋求一個比較合理的這樣子的一個所得替代率然後可以保障退休公務人員他們的一個基本的生活所以我們按照這樣子的一個就是討論之後我們進行年金改革我們也有一個樓地板就是說讓這個\n\n12\n00:03:49,306 --> 00:04:17,257\n公務人員他們退休之後生活能夠得到保障所以我們要追求的就是一個世代正義讓這個退福基金這個大水庫不要這個枯竭了然後保障所有的年輕的公務人員就是這個之後退休的這樣的一個權利所以我們也看得出來目前他們就是說對公務人員他們領的這個退休金是可以足以來保障他們的基本生活所需的對不對\n\n13\n00:04:18,457 --> 00:04:25,642\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．一．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3652\t4293\t法定人數不足\n10558\t16562\t司法及法制委員會針對幾位委員針對這個公務人員退休資遣撫卹法的相關條文進行就是這個修正草案的一個討論那白話講就是針對之前的這個年金改革他們希望就是再把它恢復就對了是不是就是\n36078\t42213\t這幾個條文法案。當初主要年金改革推動的措施大概這次都變成修正的重點。\n42722\t43082\t三（委員張智倫等16人擬具\n72722\t87167\t撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會\n103746\t118243\t退休基金就是一個大水庫的理念基於剛剛部長講的這三個理由所以我們也希望就是說讓這個退伏基金可以永續讓之後的年輕世代的公務人員\n119144\t120044\t撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案。」\n138251\t167338\t教職退輔基金和勞保基金會在2027年破產而公職退輔基金也會在2031年破產這是賴英九說的然後他也說下任總統或下下任總統遲早都會碰到這個問題社會在這段期間會長期惶恐不安所以他也是主張要進行年金改革的他也講得很明確可是他沒有能力做到\n168186\t192361\t他只會嘴巴講講他沒有能力做到我們民進黨執政任內那個小英總統上任之後我們知道這個也是很多國人的一個想法我們也是回應基層的民意所以我們也是就算說背負著說得罪公務人員的這個選票這樣子的一個壓力我們也是來推動這個改革\n193101\t193562\t三）委員張智倫等16人擬具\n208809\t226464\t對,我們也是經過非常充分的討論我們希望尋求一個比較合理的這樣子的一個所得替代率然後可以保障退休公務人員他們的一個基本的生活所以我們按照這樣子的一個就是討論之後我們進行年金改革我們也有一個樓地板就是說讓這個\n229306\t257257\t公務人員他們退休之後生活能夠得到保障所以我們要追求的就是一個世代正義讓這個退福基金這個大水庫不要這個枯竭了然後保障所有的年輕的公務人員就是這個之後退休的這樣的一個權利所以我們也看得出來目前他們就是說對公務人員他們領的這個退休金是可以足以來保障他們的基本生活所需的對不對\n258457\t265642\t撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．一．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n","txt":"法定人數不足\n司法及法制委員會針對幾位委員針對這個公務人員退休資遣撫卹法的相關條文進行就是這個修正草案的一個討論那白話講就是針對之前的這個年金改革他們希望就是再把它恢復就對了是不是就是\n這幾個條文法案。當初主要年金改革推動的措施大概這次都變成修正的重點。\n三（委員張智倫等16人擬具\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會\n退休基金就是一個大水庫的理念基於剛剛部長講的這三個理由所以我們也希望就是說讓這個退伏基金可以永續讓之後的年輕世代的公務人員\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案。」\n教職退輔基金和勞保基金會在2027年破產而公職退輔基金也會在2031年破產這是賴英九說的然後他也說下任總統或下下任總統遲早都會碰到這個問題社會在這段期間會長期惶恐不安所以他也是主張要進行年金改革的他也講得很明確可是他沒有能力做到\n他只會嘴巴講講他沒有能力做到我們民進黨執政任內那個小英總統上任之後我們知道這個也是很多國人的一個想法我們也是回應基層的民意所以我們也是就算說背負著說得罪公務人員的這個選票這樣子的一個壓力我們也是來推動這個改革\n三）委員張智倫等16人擬具\n對,我們也是經過非常充分的討論我們希望尋求一個比較合理的這樣子的一個所得替代率然後可以保障退休公務人員他們的一個基本的生活所以我們按照這樣子的一個就是討論之後我們進行年金改革我們也有一個樓地板就是說讓這個\n公務人員他們退休之後生活能夠得到保障所以我們要追求的就是一個世代正義讓這個退福基金這個大水庫不要這個枯竭了然後保障所有的年輕的公務人員就是這個之後退休的這樣的一個權利所以我們也看得出來目前他們就是說對公務人員他們領的這個退休金是可以足以來保障他們的基本生活所需的對不對\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．一．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.652 --> 00:04.293\n法定人數不足\n\n00:10.558 --> 00:16.562\n司法及法制委員會針對幾位委員針對這個公務人員退休資遣撫卹法的相關條文進行就是這個修正草案的一個討論那白話講就是針對之前的這個年金改革他們希望就是再把它恢復就對了是不是就是\n\n00:36.078 --> 00:42.213\n這幾個條文法案。當初主要年金改革推動的措施大概這次都變成修正的重點。\n\n00:42.722 --> 00:43.082\n三（委員張智倫等16人擬具\n\n01:12.722 --> 01:27.167\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會\n\n01:43.746 --> 01:58.243\n退休基金就是一個大水庫的理念基於剛剛部長講的這三個理由所以我們也希望就是說讓這個退伏基金可以永續讓之後的年輕世代的公務人員\n\n01:59.144 --> 02:00.044\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案。」\n\n02:18.251 --> 02:47.338\n教職退輔基金和勞保基金會在2027年破產而公職退輔基金也會在2031年破產這是賴英九說的然後他也說下任總統或下下任總統遲早都會碰到這個問題社會在這段期間會長期惶恐不安所以他也是主張要進行年金改革的他也講得很明確可是他沒有能力做到\n\n02:48.186 --> 03:12.361\n他只會嘴巴講講他沒有能力做到我們民進黨執政任內那個小英總統上任之後我們知道這個也是很多國人的一個想法我們也是回應基層的民意所以我們也是就算說背負著說得罪公務人員的這個選票這樣子的一個壓力我們也是來推動這個改革\n\n03:13.101 --> 03:13.562\n三）委員張智倫等16人擬具\n\n03:28.809 --> 03:46.464\n對,我們也是經過非常充分的討論我們希望尋求一個比較合理的這樣子的一個所得替代率然後可以保障退休公務人員他們的一個基本的生活所以我們按照這樣子的一個就是討論之後我們進行年金改革我們也有一個樓地板就是說讓這個\n\n03:49.306 --> 04:17.257\n公務人員他們退休之後生活能夠得到保障所以我們要追求的就是一個世代正義讓這個退福基金這個大水庫不要這個枯竭了然後保障所有的年輕的公務人員就是這個之後退休的這樣的一個權利所以我們也看得出來目前他們就是說對公務人員他們領的這個退休金是可以足以來保障他們的基本生活所需的對不對\n\n04:18.457 --> 04:25.642\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．一．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.652,"end":4.293,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":10.558,"end":16.562,"text":"司法及法制委員會針對幾位委員針對這個公務人員退休資遣撫卹法的相關條文進行就是這個修正草案的一個討論那白話講就是針對之前的這個年金改革他們希望就是再把它恢復就對了是不是就是"},{"start":36.078,"end":42.213,"text":"這幾個條文法案。當初主要年金改革推動的措施大概這次都變成修正的重點。"},{"start":42.722,"end":43.082,"text":"三（委員張智倫等16人擬具"},{"start":72.722,"end":87.167,"text":"撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會"},{"start":103.746,"end":118.243,"text":"退休基金就是一個大水庫的理念基於剛剛部長講的這三個理由所以我們也希望就是說讓這個退伏基金可以永續讓之後的年輕世代的公務人員"},{"start":119.144,"end":120.044,"text":"撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案。」"},{"start":138.251,"end":167.338,"text":"教職退輔基金和勞保基金會在2027年破產而公職退輔基金也會在2031年破產這是賴英九說的然後他也說下任總統或下下任總統遲早都會碰到這個問題社會在這段期間會長期惶恐不安所以他也是主張要進行年金改革的他也講得很明確可是他沒有能力做到"},{"start":168.186,"end":192.361,"text":"他只會嘴巴講講他沒有能力做到我們民進黨執政任內那個小英總統上任之後我們知道這個也是很多國人的一個想法我們也是回應基層的民意所以我們也是就算說背負著說得罪公務人員的這個選票這樣子的一個壓力我們也是來推動這個改革"},{"start":193.101,"end":193.562,"text":"三）委員張智倫等16人擬具"},{"start":208.809,"end":226.464,"text":"對,我們也是經過非常充分的討論我們希望尋求一個比較合理的這樣子的一個所得替代率然後可以保障退休公務人員他們的一個基本的生活所以我們按照這樣子的一個就是討論之後我們進行年金改革我們也有一個樓地板就是說讓這個"},{"start":229.306,"end":257.257,"text":"公務人員他們退休之後生活能夠得到保障所以我們要追求的就是一個世代正義讓這個退福基金這個大水庫不要這個枯竭了然後保障所有的年輕的公務人員就是這個之後退休的這樣的一個權利所以我們也看得出來目前他們就是說對公務人員他們領的這個退休金是可以足以來保障他們的基本生活所需的對不對"},{"start":258.457,"end":265.642,"text":"撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．一．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具:「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1305,"blocks":[["陳委員素月：（15時56分）謝謝主席。請主席邀請部長。"],["主席：麻煩部長。"],["施部長能傑：委員好。"],["陳委員素月：部長午安，辛苦了！"],["施部長能傑：哪裡。"],["陳委員素月：今天司法及法制委員會是針對幾位委員提出的公務人員退休資遣撫卹法相關條文修正草案進行討論。用白話講，就是針對之前的年金改革，他們希望再把它恢復就對了，是不是？這就是這幾個條文的用意？"],["施部長能傑：當初推動年金改革中的主要措施，大概這次都變成修正的重點。"],["陳委員素月：對啊！就是要再把它翻案就對了，也就是改回去、走回頭路啦！","我想先請問部長，請你簡短說一下，關於當年進行年金改革，為什麼會推動這樣的制度？是不是可以簡單講一下？"],["施部長能傑：關於推動這個制度的最重要原因，當然我們是很早就已經先做精算、提出預警，指出如果不做改革的話，基金會很早就用罄。那為什麼會造成這個問題？因為繳得少、領得多。"],["陳委員素月：對。"],["施部長能傑：然後也很早就可以領，白話來講就是因為這3項啦！所以所有措施都是針對這3項來的。我舉個例子來講，那時候退休的人中，有些人領得比現職人員還多，至於一般平均大概也領了現職人員的八成到九成以上。繳的錢不足……因為經過精算嘛！基金就是要精算，如果繳的錢不足以支付領的錢，當然就會有窟窿啊！"],["陳委員素月：對啊！退撫基金就是一座大水庫的理念嘛！"],["施部長能傑：對，沒錯。"],["陳委員素月：基於剛剛部長講的這三個理由，我們也希望讓退撫基金可以永續──之後的年輕世代公務人員在退休金方面也可以獲得保障嘛！","我們來回想一下，當年馬英九總統自己也講過：「如果我們今天不推動改革，軍人退撫基金會在2019年破產，教職退撫基金會和勞保基金會在2027年破產，而公職退撫基金也會在2031年破產……」，這是馬英九說的。然後，他也說「下任總統或下下任總統，遲早都會碰到這個問題，社會在這段期間也會長期惶恐不安」，所以，他也是主張進行年金改革的！他也講得很明確，可是他沒有能力做到。他只會嘴巴講講，沒有能力做到。我們民進黨執政，小英總統上任之後，我們也知道這是很多國人的想法，所以我們回應基層的民意，就算背負著得罪公務人員選票這樣的壓力，我們仍推動這項改革。推動改革期間，那時候我已經在立法院了，在我的印象裡面，在北、中、南、東辦了很多公聽會對不對？我記得至少有10場以上嘛！"],["施部長能傑：很多場，我也參加過，包括主持臺東的會議。"],["陳委員素月：對，我們也是經過非常充分的討論，希望尋求一個比較合理的所得替代率，可以保障退休公務人員的基本生活嘛！所以我們按照這樣的過程，在討論之後進行年金改革。我們也設有樓地板，就是讓公務人員退休之後生活能夠得到保障嘛！我們要追求的就是世代正義，讓退撫基金這座大水庫不要枯竭，保障所有年輕公務人員退休之後的權益。","我們也看得出來，目前退休公務人員認為所領的退休金是足以保障他們基本生活所需的嘛！對不對？而且其實還是高於目前一般勞工所得的。所以我覺得我們應該基於公平正義的原則，希望國民黨的委員們不要昨是今非啦！也就是說，對於馬英九講過的話，他們卻這樣提案、企圖翻案，等於在打他們的臉、打馬英九總統的臉啦！謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員。","下一位請徐富癸委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-18","speakers":["吳宗憲","賴士葆","翁曉玲","張嘉郡","羅智強","黃建賓","林思銘","張智倫","黃健豪","許宇甄","鍾佳濱","吳思瑤","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","王義川","李彥秀","吳沛憶","沈伯洋","林宜瑾","陳俊宇","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","林德福","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","李坤城","林楚茵","張雅琳","黃秀芳","林淑芬","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","陳素月","徐富癸","賴惠員","吳秉叡","許智傑","陳培瑜","郭國文"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-05"],"gazette_id":"1140301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)委員賴士葆等31人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」\n案、(二)委員賴士葆等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(三)\n委員張智倫等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員張嘉\n郡等23人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員賴士葆等26人\n擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「公\n務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條、第三十八條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員邱鎮\n軍等25 人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、( 八) 國民黨黨團擬具\n「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員林思銘等26人擬具「公務人\n員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十)委員陳超明等19人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員許宇甄等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員張智倫等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三條、第八條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員馬文君等20人擬具「公務人員退\n休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員傅崐萁等21人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員黃建賓等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十八)委員陳玉珍等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十\n八條條文修正草案」案、(二十)委員羅智強等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條\n文修正草案」案；二、併案審查(一)委員李彥秀等18人擬具「公務人員任用法第三十六條之一條\n文修正草案」案、(二)委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「公務人員任用法第二十八條之一條文修正草案」\n案","agenda_id":"1140301_00001"}}}