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17:15:57","影片長度":"00:03:55","會議時間":"2024-12-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員賴士葆等31人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員賴士葆等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員張智倫等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員張嘉郡等23人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員賴士葆等26人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條、第三十八條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員邱鎮軍等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）國民黨黨團擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員林思銘等26人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員陳超明等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員許宇甄等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員張智倫等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三條、第八條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十四）委員馬文君等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員傅崐萁等21人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十七）委員黃建賓等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十八）委員陳玉珍等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十九）委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案。\n（二十）委員羅智強等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n二、併案審查\n（一）委員李彥秀等18人擬具「公務人員任用法第三十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「公務人員任用法第二十八條之一條文修正草案」案。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-05","start_time":"2024-12-05T17:12:02+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-05T17:15:57+08:00","duration":235,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":18,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-2-36-18"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"157944","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157944","tool":"pyannote","id":"157944-pyannote"},"job_id":"cvXJwyxttFoMHC7V","queued_at":"2024-12-05 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00:00:42,989\n按那個審查公務人員退休資遣撫卹法明義上是說審查實質上就是要推翻掉過去蔡英文總統執政努力推動的年改所以想問部長目前蔡英文總統執政時期推動的年改版本預計退撫基金可以維持多久?針對於年輕的公務人員是否有同樣保障?\n\n3\n00:00:43,709 --> 00:01:03,260\n我應該當初在推動的時候就設定至少一個世代所以如果一直走下去的話我們預估會到140年但是中間如果我們再多做比方說財務上的投資效益會更好各式各樣的方式進來當然可能還會再往後我想這是我們當初所希望走的方向\n\n4\n00:01:03,843 --> 00:01:27,481\n所以部長看起來擬改可能就是被誤會了絕對不是歧視公務員犧牲公務員實際上反而是為了國家永續發展或者換句話說讓每位退休軍公教都能夠真正的放心平安度過退休後的日子無需擔心是否國家垮台基金破產退休金領不到這是我想是擬改的初衷那第二就要問\n\n5\n00:01:28,982 --> 00:01:30,364\n公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n\n6\n00:01:50,305 --> 00:02:11,589\n我想所有的物價指數變動我們都有一個退休公務人員的退休所的本來就會跟著物價5%左右就會跟著做調整所以過去年改以後也調了6%了那所以我們的部裡面的資料顯示說目前所有退休人員不管他是哪一個年度退休大概七成左右都會有五萬塊以上的\n\n7\n00:02:12,169 --> 00:02:41,137\n或5.1萬以上的那個實際上拿月退休金所以這個數字其實還是高於那個勞工體系的這個月薪資所得是啊我看到我們現在的平均家戶裡邊一個人如果要生活的話大概兩萬三所以這五萬塊也是可以過日子那再來就這樣問目前國民黨的版本修法若退回過去請問我國每一年的財政負擔要增加多少是否目前有財源可以支援\n\n8\n00:02:42,638 --> 00:02:57,792\n應該講我們的所有的改革是對基金會衝擊那基金我們是根據精算50年來做精算因為基金要永續嘛所以如果這個停止的話那我們估算會提早4到5年用慶然後會減少2800億左右的這個移住\n\n9\n00:03:00,646 --> 00:03:11,584\n那我沒有辦法支撐下去嗎我想這是一個很大很大對基金是一個很大的挑戰所以目前現行版本的話運作上全系部是否有看到什麼自然難行之處\n\n10\n00:03:13,387 --> 00:03:33,255\n這已經推動的五年六年了那我想順順利利讓他到118年那我覺得對基金來講是一個永續的一個方式那更何況這中間的隨著我們物價的就是公務人員的調薪或者是我們定期的退休人員根據物價來做調整我們現在覺得說大家看到的是說那個\n\n11\n00:03:34,035 --> 00:03:36,936\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t16670\t在立法院我是下一代連線的委員今天站在這裡感到很難過很暗惋惜因為這個國家正在退回無法想像的樣子因為國民黨今天排\n17631\t42989\t按那個審查公務人員退休資遣撫卹法明義上是說審查實質上就是要推翻掉過去蔡英文總統執政努力推動的年改所以想問部長目前蔡英文總統執政時期推動的年改版本預計退撫基金可以維持多久?針對於年輕的公務人員是否有同樣保障?\n43709\t63260\t我應該當初在推動的時候就設定至少一個世代所以如果一直走下去的話我們預估會到140年但是中間如果我們再多做比方說財務上的投資效益會更好各式各樣的方式進來當然可能還會再往後我想這是我們當初所希望走的方向\n63843\t87481\t所以部長看起來擬改可能就是被誤會了絕對不是歧視公務員犧牲公務員實際上反而是為了國家永續發展或者換句話說讓每位退休軍公教都能夠真正的放心平安度過退休後的日子無需擔心是否國家垮台基金破產退休金領不到這是我想是擬改的初衷那第二就要問\n88982\t90364\t公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n110305\t131589\t我想所有的物價指數變動我們都有一個退休公務人員的退休所的本來就會跟著物價5%左右就會跟著做調整所以過去年改以後也調了6%了那所以我們的部裡面的資料顯示說目前所有退休人員不管他是哪一個年度退休大概七成左右都會有五萬塊以上的\n132169\t161137\t或5.1萬以上的那個實際上拿月退休金所以這個數字其實還是高於那個勞工體系的這個月薪資所得是啊我看到我們現在的平均家戶裡邊一個人如果要生活的話大概兩萬三所以這五萬塊也是可以過日子那再來就這樣問目前國民黨的版本修法若退回過去請問我國每一年的財政負擔要增加多少是否目前有財源可以支援\n162638\t177792\t應該講我們的所有的改革是對基金會衝擊那基金我們是根據精算50年來做精算因為基金要永續嘛所以如果這個停止的話那我們估算會提早4到5年用慶然後會減少2800億左右的這個移住\n180646\t191584\t那我沒有辦法支撐下去嗎我想這是一個很大很大對基金是一個很大的挑戰所以目前現行版本的話運作上全系部是否有看到什麼自然難行之處\n193387\t213255\t這已經推動的五年六年了那我想順順利利讓他到118年那我覺得對基金來講是一個永續的一個方式那更何況這中間的隨著我們物價的就是公務人員的調薪或者是我們定期的退休人員根據物價來做調整我們現在覺得說大家看到的是說那個\n214035\t216936\t撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具\n","txt":"在立法院我是下一代連線的委員今天站在這裡感到很難過很暗惋惜因為這個國家正在退回無法想像的樣子因為國民黨今天排\n按那個審查公務人員退休資遣撫卹法明義上是說審查實質上就是要推翻掉過去蔡英文總統執政努力推動的年改所以想問部長目前蔡英文總統執政時期推動的年改版本預計退撫基金可以維持多久?針對於年輕的公務人員是否有同樣保障?\n我應該當初在推動的時候就設定至少一個世代所以如果一直走下去的話我們預估會到140年但是中間如果我們再多做比方說財務上的投資效益會更好各式各樣的方式進來當然可能還會再往後我想這是我們當初所希望走的方向\n所以部長看起來擬改可能就是被誤會了絕對不是歧視公務員犧牲公務員實際上反而是為了國家永續發展或者換句話說讓每位退休軍公教都能夠真正的放心平安度過退休後的日子無需擔心是否國家垮台基金破產退休金領不到這是我想是擬改的初衷那第二就要問\n公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n我想所有的物價指數變動我們都有一個退休公務人員的退休所的本來就會跟著物價5%左右就會跟著做調整所以過去年改以後也調了6%了那所以我們的部裡面的資料顯示說目前所有退休人員不管他是哪一個年度退休大概七成左右都會有五萬塊以上的\n或5.1萬以上的那個實際上拿月退休金所以這個數字其實還是高於那個勞工體系的這個月薪資所得是啊我看到我們現在的平均家戶裡邊一個人如果要生活的話大概兩萬三所以這五萬塊也是可以過日子那再來就這樣問目前國民黨的版本修法若退回過去請問我國每一年的財政負擔要增加多少是否目前有財源可以支援\n應該講我們的所有的改革是對基金會衝擊那基金我們是根據精算50年來做精算因為基金要永續嘛所以如果這個停止的話那我們估算會提早4到5年用慶然後會減少2800億左右的這個移住\n那我沒有辦法支撐下去嗎我想這是一個很大很大對基金是一個很大的挑戰所以目前現行版本的話運作上全系部是否有看到什麼自然難行之處\n這已經推動的五年六年了那我想順順利利讓他到118年那我覺得對基金來講是一個永續的一個方式那更何況這中間的隨著我們物價的就是公務人員的調薪或者是我們定期的退休人員根據物價來做調整我們現在覺得說大家看到的是說那個\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 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03:11.584\n那我沒有辦法支撐下去嗎我想這是一個很大很大對基金是一個很大的挑戰所以目前現行版本的話運作上全系部是否有看到什麼自然難行之處\n\n03:13.387 --> 03:33.255\n這已經推動的五年六年了那我想順順利利讓他到118年那我覺得對基金來講是一個永續的一個方式那更何況這中間的隨著我們物價的就是公務人員的調薪或者是我們定期的退休人員根據物價來做調整我們現在覺得說大家看到的是說那個\n\n03:34.035 --> 03:36.936\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":16.67,"text":"在立法院我是下一代連線的委員今天站在這裡感到很難過很暗惋惜因為這個國家正在退回無法想像的樣子因為國民黨今天排"},{"start":17.631,"end":42.989,"text":"按那個審查公務人員退休資遣撫卹法明義上是說審查實質上就是要推翻掉過去蔡英文總統執政努力推動的年改所以想問部長目前蔡英文總統執政時期推動的年改版本預計退撫基金可以維持多久?針對於年輕的公務人員是否有同樣保障?"},{"start":43.709,"end":63.26,"text":"我應該當初在推動的時候就設定至少一個世代所以如果一直走下去的話我們預估會到140年但是中間如果我們再多做比方說財務上的投資效益會更好各式各樣的方式進來當然可能還會再往後我想這是我們當初所希望走的方向"},{"start":63.843,"end":87.481,"text":"所以部長看起來擬改可能就是被誤會了絕對不是歧視公務員犧牲公務員實際上反而是為了國家永續發展或者換句話說讓每位退休軍公教都能夠真正的放心平安度過退休後的日子無需擔心是否國家垮台基金破產退休金領不到這是我想是擬改的初衷那第二就要問"},{"start":88.982,"end":90.364,"text":"公務人員退休資遣撫卹法"},{"start":110.305,"end":131.589,"text":"我想所有的物價指數變動我們都有一個退休公務人員的退休所的本來就會跟著物價5%左右就會跟著做調整所以過去年改以後也調了6%了那所以我們的部裡面的資料顯示說目前所有退休人員不管他是哪一個年度退休大概七成左右都會有五萬塊以上的"},{"start":132.169,"end":161.137,"text":"或5.1萬以上的那個實際上拿月退休金所以這個數字其實還是高於那個勞工體系的這個月薪資所得是啊我看到我們現在的平均家戶裡邊一個人如果要生活的話大概兩萬三所以這五萬塊也是可以過日子那再來就這樣問目前國民黨的版本修法若退回過去請問我國每一年的財政負擔要增加多少是否目前有財源可以支援"},{"start":162.638,"end":177.792,"text":"應該講我們的所有的改革是對基金會衝擊那基金我們是根據精算50年來做精算因為基金要永續嘛所以如果這個停止的話那我們估算會提早4到5年用慶然後會減少2800億左右的這個移住"},{"start":180.646,"end":191.584,"text":"那我沒有辦法支撐下去嗎我想這是一個很大很大對基金是一個很大的挑戰所以目前現行版本的話運作上全系部是否有看到什麼自然難行之處"},{"start":193.387,"end":213.255,"text":"這已經推動的五年六年了那我想順順利利讓他到118年那我覺得對基金來講是一個永續的一個方式那更何況這中間的隨著我們物價的就是公務人員的調薪或者是我們定期的退休人員根據物價來做調整我們現在覺得說大家看到的是說那個"},{"start":214.035,"end":216.936,"text":"撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）委員賴士葆等19人擬具"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1756,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（17時11分）主席，麻煩部長。"],["主席：麻煩部長。"],["施部長能傑：委員好。"],["林委員月琴：部長辛苦了，午安！我今天站在這裡感到很難過、很惋惜，因為這個國家正在退回無法想像的樣子，因為國民黨今天排案審查公務人員退休資遣撫卹法，名義上是說審查，實質上就是要推翻掉過去蔡英文總統執政努力推動的年改。所以想問部長，目前蔡英文總統執政時期推動的年改版本預計退撫基金可以維持多久？針對於年輕的公務人員是否有同樣保障？"],["施部長能傑：應該當初在推動的時候就設定至少延後一個世代，所以如果一直走下去的話，我們預估會到140年，這中間如果我們再多做比方說財務上的投資，效益會更好，以各式各樣的方式進行，當然可能還會再往後，這是我們當初所希望走的方向。"],["林委員月琴：所以，看起來年改可能就是被誤會，絕對不是歧視公務員、犧牲公務員，實際上反而是為了國家永續發展，或者換句話說，讓每位退休軍公教人員都能夠真正的放心平安，渡過退休後的日子，無需擔心是否國家垮台、基金破產、退休金領不到，我想這是年改的初衷。","第二個要請教部長，有其他黨團提到目前國際局勢動盪，原物料上漲，帶動國內物價的上漲趨勢，可能造成目前退休公務員領取退休金不足以支付生活狀況，請問現況為何？"],["施部長能傑：我想所有的物價指數變動，我們退休公務人員的退休所得本來就會跟著物價做5%左右的調整，所以過去年改以後也調了6%。我們的部裡面的資料顯示，目前所有退休人員，不管他是哪一個年度退休，大概七成左右都會有5萬塊以上或5.1萬以上的月退休金，這個數字其實還是高於勞工體系的月薪資所得。"],["林委員月琴：是啊！現在平均家戶一個人生活大概2萬3,000，所以這5萬塊也是可以過日子。再來就想問，目前國民黨的版本修法如果退回過去，請問我國每一年的財政負擔要增加多少？是否目前有財源可以支應？"],["施部長能傑：應該講我們所有改革是對基金會衝擊，基金我們是根據精算50年來做精算，因為基金要永續，所以如果這個停止的話，我們估算會提早4到5年用罄，然後會減少2,800億左右的挹注。"],["林委員月琴：我們有辦法支撐下去嗎？"],["施部長能傑：我想這對基金是一個很大的挑戰。"],["林委員月琴：所以如果目前現行版本，運作上銓敘部是否有看到什麼窒礙難行之處？"],["施部長能傑：我覺得已經推動5年、6年了，我想順順利利讓它到118年，對基金來講是一個永續的方式，更何況這中間隨著物價會做公務人員調薪，或者是定期就退休人員的部分根據物價來做調整，我們是覺得大家要看到的是可以拿的每個月的錢，其實可能跟大家想像中說的那個60%，其實是不用那麼驚慌啦！"],["林委員月琴：因此本席希望國民黨停止你們掏空國家、掏空臺灣的種種行為，好好的重視下一代的權益，謝謝部長。"],["主席：下一位麻煩葉元之委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-18","speakers":["吳宗憲","賴士葆","翁曉玲","張嘉郡","羅智強","黃建賓","林思銘","張智倫","黃健豪","許宇甄","鍾佳濱","吳思瑤","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","王義川","李彥秀","吳沛憶","沈伯洋","林宜瑾","陳俊宇","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","林德福","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","李坤城","林楚茵","張雅琳","黃秀芳","林淑芬","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","陳素月","徐富癸","賴惠員","吳秉叡","許智傑","陳培瑜","郭國文"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-05"],"gazette_id":"1140301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)委員賴士葆等31人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」\n案、(二)委員賴士葆等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(三)\n委員張智倫等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員張嘉\n郡等23人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員賴士葆等26人\n擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「公\n務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條、第三十八條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員邱鎮\n軍等25 人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、( 八) 國民黨黨團擬具\n「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員林思銘等26人擬具「公務人\n員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十)委員陳超明等19人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員許宇甄等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員張智倫等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三條、第八條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員馬文君等20人擬具「公務人員退\n休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員傅崐萁等21人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員黃建賓等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十八)委員陳玉珍等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十\n八條條文修正草案」案、(二十)委員羅智強等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條\n文修正草案」案；二、併案審查(一)委員李彥秀等18人擬具「公務人員任用法第三十六條之一條\n文修正草案」案、(二)委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「公務人員任用法第二十八條之一條文修正草案」\n案","agenda_id":"1140301_00001"}}}