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\"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,755 --> 00:00:32,902\n謝謝趙偉請一下部長麻煩部長委員好部長有關於軍公教的年金改革是一個非常嚴肅的議題那在馬英九時代他們也希望能夠推出相關的改革的方案可惜沒有成功那到民進黨執政的時候\n\n2\n00:00:33,402 --> 00:00:35,424\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n3\n00:00:56,277 --> 00:01:01,459\n條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n\n4\n00:01:15,936 --> 00:01:39,789\n他們認為老保有撥補但是認為是對軍公教的年金有削減的這樣的一個政策他們認為這是有差異性的其實這是非常扭曲而且是非常謬誤的一個說法來請部長簡單說明一下我想在整個我們對政府對軍公教這邊的一個基金來講我們改革所省下來所有錢通通一樣\n\n5\n00:01:40,589 --> 00:01:49,471\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n\n6\n00:02:07,236 --> 00:02:34,337\n老保在2012年的時候因為老保的財務精算報告提出說老保有財務的這樣的一個破產的危機的狀況所以在當時2012年當時的行政院長是陳聰老委會的主委是王如璇那當時我就提出兩大訴求第一個是政府撥補第二個是國家最終支付責任\n\n7\n00:02:35,057 --> 00:02:45,725\n那努力了多年終於在蘇貞昌院長的時候2020年政府編了200億2021年編了220億2022年編了300億2023年編到750億那今年2024年編到1200億明年是希望有1300億我要跟國民黨的委員說這個政府的撥補還沒有明文入法\n\n8\n00:03:02,585 --> 00:03:22,852\n這是實質的撥補還沒有進行到下一個階段勞保條例第69條的一個修正勞保要有明文入法這才是安心條款那勞保還是必須要面對未來的勞保年金的改革就是為了要讓他永續的進行還是面臨同樣的一個議題\n\n9\n00:03:25,404 --> 00:03:46,344\n我們在這邊都必須要向所有的國人來報告我們都要照顧每一個國民這是我們共同的責任不管是軍公教還是勞工還是各階層都要運用國家的資源來保障他們一個基本的權利那相關的有關於勞保這樣的一個\n\n10\n00:03:50,461 --> 00:04:03,122\n保障,他們認為說對軍公教沒有保障。軍公教在軍公教退休人員撫蓄基金的管理條例第八條就有明文規定\n\n11\n00:04:04,008 --> 00:04:30,348\n他們的年金如果有經費的問題政府要撥補而且是有國家最終支付的他們有明文入法連國民年金國民年金法第49條也有明文規定國民年金如果有經費的問題政府也要撥補也要負最終支付責任不管哪一個階層我們國家都要負起這樣的一個基本的責任來讓部長做最後的一個補充說明\n\n12\n00:04:40,137 --> 00:04:43,201\n撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11755\t32902\t謝謝趙偉請一下部長麻煩部長委員好部長有關於軍公教的年金改革是一個非常嚴肅的議題那在馬英九時代他們也希望能夠推出相關的改革的方案可惜沒有成功那到民進黨執政的時候\n33402\t35424\t撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n56277\t61459\t條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n75936\t99789\t他們認為老保有撥補但是認為是對軍公教的年金有削減的這樣的一個政策他們認為這是有差異性的其實這是非常扭曲而且是非常謬誤的一個說法來請部長簡單說明一下我想在整個我們對政府對軍公教這邊的一個基金來講我們改革所省下來所有錢通通一樣\n100589\t109471\t撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n127236\t154337\t老保在2012年的時候因為老保的財務精算報告提出說老保有財務的這樣的一個破產的危機的狀況所以在當時2012年當時的行政院長是陳聰老委會的主委是王如璇那當時我就提出兩大訴求第一個是政府撥補第二個是國家最終支付責任\n155057\t165725\t那努力了多年終於在蘇貞昌院長的時候2020年政府編了200億2021年編了220億2022年編了300億2023年編到750億那今年2024年編到1200億明年是希望有1300億我要跟國民黨的委員說這個政府的撥補還沒有明文入法\n182585\t202852\t這是實質的撥補還沒有進行到下一個階段勞保條例第69條的一個修正勞保要有明文入法這才是安心條款那勞保還是必須要面對未來的勞保年金的改革就是為了要讓他永續的進行還是面臨同樣的一個議題\n205404\t226344\t我們在這邊都必須要向所有的國人來報告我們都要照顧每一個國民這是我們共同的責任不管是軍公教還是勞工還是各階層都要運用國家的資源來保障他們一個基本的權利那相關的有關於勞保這樣的一個\n230461\t243122\t保障,他們認為說對軍公教沒有保障。軍公教在軍公教退休人員撫蓄基金的管理條例第八條就有明文規定\n244008\t270348\t他們的年金如果有經費的問題政府要撥補而且是有國家最終支付的他們有明文入法連國民年金國民年金法第49條也有明文規定國民年金如果有經費的問題政府也要撥補也要負最終支付責任不管哪一個階層我們國家都要負起這樣的一個基本的責任來讓部長做最後的一個補充說明\n280137\t283201\t撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案。\n","txt":"謝謝趙偉請一下部長麻煩部長委員好部長有關於軍公教的年金改革是一個非常嚴肅的議題那在馬英九時代他們也希望能夠推出相關的改革的方案可惜沒有成功那到民進黨執政的時候\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n他們認為老保有撥補但是認為是對軍公教的年金有削減的這樣的一個政策他們認為這是有差異性的其實這是非常扭曲而且是非常謬誤的一個說法來請部長簡單說明一下我想在整個我們對政府對軍公教這邊的一個基金來講我們改革所省下來所有錢通通一樣\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n老保在2012年的時候因為老保的財務精算報告提出說老保有財務的這樣的一個破產的危機的狀況所以在當時2012年當時的行政院長是陳聰老委會的主委是王如璇那當時我就提出兩大訴求第一個是政府撥補第二個是國家最終支付責任\n那努力了多年終於在蘇貞昌院長的時候2020年政府編了200億2021年編了220億2022年編了300億2023年編到750億那今年2024年編到1200億明年是希望有1300億我要跟國民黨的委員說這個政府的撥補還沒有明文入法\n這是實質的撥補還沒有進行到下一個階段勞保條例第69條的一個修正勞保要有明文入法這才是安心條款那勞保還是必須要面對未來的勞保年金的改革就是為了要讓他永續的進行還是面臨同樣的一個議題\n我們在這邊都必須要向所有的國人來報告我們都要照顧每一個國民這是我們共同的責任不管是軍公教還是勞工還是各階層都要運用國家的資源來保障他們一個基本的權利那相關的有關於勞保這樣的一個\n保障,他們認為說對軍公教沒有保障。軍公教在軍公教退休人員撫蓄基金的管理條例第八條就有明文規定\n他們的年金如果有經費的問題政府要撥補而且是有國家最終支付的他們有明文入法連國民年金國民年金法第49條也有明文規定國民年金如果有經費的問題政府也要撥補也要負最終支付責任不管哪一個階層我們國家都要負起這樣的一個基本的責任來讓部長做最後的一個補充說明\n撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.755 --> 00:32.902\n謝謝趙偉請一下部長麻煩部長委員好部長有關於軍公教的年金改革是一個非常嚴肅的議題那在馬英九時代他們也希望能夠推出相關的改革的方案可惜沒有成功那到民進黨執政的時候\n\n00:33.402 --> 00:35.424\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n00:56.277 --> 01:01.459\n條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n\n01:15.936 --> 01:39.789\n他們認為老保有撥補但是認為是對軍公教的年金有削減的這樣的一個政策他們認為這是有差異性的其實這是非常扭曲而且是非常謬誤的一個說法來請部長簡單說明一下我想在整個我們對政府對軍公教這邊的一個基金來講我們改革所省下來所有錢通通一樣\n\n01:40.589 --> 01:49.471\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n\n02:07.236 --> 02:34.337\n老保在2012年的時候因為老保的財務精算報告提出說老保有財務的這樣的一個破產的危機的狀況所以在當時2012年當時的行政院長是陳聰老委會的主委是王如璇那當時我就提出兩大訴求第一個是政府撥補第二個是國家最終支付責任\n\n02:35.057 --> 02:45.725\n那努力了多年終於在蘇貞昌院長的時候2020年政府編了200億2021年編了220億2022年編了300億2023年編到750億那今年2024年編到1200億明年是希望有1300億我要跟國民黨的委員說這個政府的撥補還沒有明文入法\n\n03:02.585 --> 03:22.852\n這是實質的撥補還沒有進行到下一個階段勞保條例第69條的一個修正勞保要有明文入法這才是安心條款那勞保還是必須要面對未來的勞保年金的改革就是為了要讓他永續的進行還是面臨同樣的一個議題\n\n03:25.404 --> 03:46.344\n我們在這邊都必須要向所有的國人來報告我們都要照顧每一個國民這是我們共同的責任不管是軍公教還是勞工還是各階層都要運用國家的資源來保障他們一個基本的權利那相關的有關於勞保這樣的一個\n\n03:50.461 --> 04:03.122\n保障,他們認為說對軍公教沒有保障。軍公教在軍公教退休人員撫蓄基金的管理條例第八條就有明文規定\n\n04:04.008 --> 04:30.348\n他們的年金如果有經費的問題政府要撥補而且是有國家最終支付的他們有明文入法連國民年金國民年金法第49條也有明文規定國民年金如果有經費的問題政府也要撥補也要負最終支付責任不管哪一個階層我們國家都要負起這樣的一個基本的責任來讓部長做最後的一個補充說明\n\n04:40.137 --> 04:43.201\n撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案。\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.755,"end":32.902,"text":"謝謝趙偉請一下部長麻煩部長委員好部長有關於軍公教的年金改革是一個非常嚴肅的議題那在馬英九時代他們也希望能夠推出相關的改革的方案可惜沒有成功那到民進黨執政的時候"},{"start":33.402,"end":35.424,"text":"撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．"},{"start":56.277,"end":61.459,"text":"條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會"},{"start":75.936,"end":99.789,"text":"他們認為老保有撥補但是認為是對軍公教的年金有削減的這樣的一個政策他們認為這是有差異性的其實這是非常扭曲而且是非常謬誤的一個說法來請部長簡單說明一下我想在整個我們對政府對軍公教這邊的一個基金來講我們改革所省下來所有錢通通一樣"},{"start":100.589,"end":109.471,"text":"撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會"},{"start":127.236,"end":154.337,"text":"老保在2012年的時候因為老保的財務精算報告提出說老保有財務的這樣的一個破產的危機的狀況所以在當時2012年當時的行政院長是陳聰老委會的主委是王如璇那當時我就提出兩大訴求第一個是政府撥補第二個是國家最終支付責任"},{"start":155.057,"end":165.725,"text":"那努力了多年終於在蘇貞昌院長的時候2020年政府編了200億2021年編了220億2022年編了300億2023年編到750億那今年2024年編到1200億明年是希望有1300億我要跟國民黨的委員說這個政府的撥補還沒有明文入法"},{"start":182.585,"end":202.852,"text":"這是實質的撥補還沒有進行到下一個階段勞保條例第69條的一個修正勞保要有明文入法這才是安心條款那勞保還是必須要面對未來的勞保年金的改革就是為了要讓他永續的進行還是面臨同樣的一個議題"},{"start":205.404,"end":226.344,"text":"我們在這邊都必須要向所有的國人來報告我們都要照顧每一個國民這是我們共同的責任不管是軍公教還是勞工還是各階層都要運用國家的資源來保障他們一個基本的權利那相關的有關於勞保這樣的一個"},{"start":230.461,"end":243.122,"text":"保障,他們認為說對軍公教沒有保障。軍公教在軍公教退休人員撫蓄基金的管理條例第八條就有明文規定"},{"start":244.008,"end":270.348,"text":"他們的年金如果有經費的問題政府要撥補而且是有國家最終支付的他們有明文入法連國民年金國民年金法第49條也有明文規定國民年金如果有經費的問題政府也要撥補也要負最終支付責任不管哪一個階層我們國家都要負起這樣的一個基本的責任來讓部長做最後的一個補充說明"},{"start":280.137,"end":283.201,"text":"撫卹法第十七條條文修正草案案。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1814,"blocks":[["李委員昆澤：（17時23分）謝謝召委，請一下部長。"],["主席：麻煩部長。"],["施部長能傑：委員好。"],["李委員昆澤：部長，有關於軍公教的年金改革是一個非常嚴肅的議題，在馬英九時代，他們也希望能夠推出相關的改革方案，可惜沒有成功，到民進黨執政承擔起這樣改革的沉重責任。其實讓軍公教人員在退休時能夠有基本的保障，這是不分藍綠共同的責任，而且這樣的保障必須是能夠永續的，同時對年輕一輩軍公教也要給他們信心。","剛才我聽了幾位國民黨委員所提出有關於軍公教改革，他們認為軍公教改革在賴清德擔任總統之後，我們對於勞保有相關的持續撥補，他們認為勞保有撥補，但是認為對軍公教的年金有削減的政策，他們認為這是有差異性的，其實這是非常扭曲，而且是非常謬誤的一個說法。請部長簡單說明一下。"],["施部長能傑：以政府對軍公教基金來講，我們改革所省下來的所有錢統統一樣回歸給這個基金。"],["李委員昆澤：他們說你們砍了兩千多億，這兩千多億是砍掉了嗎？"],["施部長能傑：沒有砍掉，就是回到原基金。"],["李委員昆澤：還是回到原基金，這兩千多億也沒有提供到勞工的保障或是教育的改革、校園的設備，或是國王的支出，也都沒有嘛！"],["施部長能傑：都沒有。"],["李委員昆澤：這個必須要說明清楚。","另外，對於勞保相關的議題，勞保在2012年的時候因為勞保的財務精算報告，提出勞保有財務破產的危機狀況，2012年當時的行政院長是陳冲，勞委會主委是王如玄，當時我就提出兩大訴求，第一個是政府撥補，第二個是國家最終支付責任，努力了多年終於在蘇貞昌院長的時候，在2020年政府編了200億，2021年編了220億，2022年編了300億，2023年編到750億，今年2024年編到1,200億，明年是希望有1,300億。我要跟國民黨的委員說，這個政府的撥補還沒有明文入法，這是實質的撥補，還沒有進行到下一個階段勞保條例第六十九條的修正，勞保要有明文入法這才是安心條款，勞保還是必須要面對未來的勞保年金改革，就是為了要讓它永續，還是面臨同樣的一個議題。我們在這邊都必須要向所有的國人報告，我們都要照顧每一個國民，這是我們共同的責任，不管是軍公教還是勞工還是各階層，都要運用國家的資源來保障他們的基本權利。","相關的有關於勞保的保障，他們認為對軍公教沒有保障，軍公教在公務人員退休撫卹基金管理條例第八條就有明文規定，他們的年金如果有經費的問題，政府要撥補，而且是由國家負最終支付責任，它有明文入法喔，國民年金法第四十九條也有明文規定，國民年金如果有經費的問題，政府也要撥補，也要負最終支付責任，不管哪一個階層，我們國家都要負起這樣的基本責任，請部長做最後的補充說明。"],["施部長能傑：在公務人員相關的法律裡面都有類似的特別法律，政府要對財務上負最終支付責任這樣的規定。"],["李委員昆澤：好，謝謝部長。"],["主席：另外有一個會議宣告，在邱議瑩委員發言之後，陸續有已登記未及發言的委員請求發言，請問一下在場委員，我們是不是同意已登記未及發言的委員發言以示公平？"],["鍾委員佳濱：同意。"],["主席：好，沒有異議的話，後續就依到場請求順序依序進行發言。謝謝。","下一位請邱議瑩委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-18","speakers":["吳宗憲","賴士葆","翁曉玲","張嘉郡","羅智強","黃建賓","林思銘","張智倫","黃健豪","許宇甄","鍾佳濱","吳思瑤","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","王義川","李彥秀","吳沛憶","沈伯洋","林宜瑾","陳俊宇","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","林德福","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","李坤城","林楚茵","張雅琳","黃秀芳","林淑芬","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","陳素月","徐富癸","賴惠員","吳秉叡","許智傑","陳培瑜","郭國文"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-05"],"gazette_id":"1140301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)委員賴士葆等31人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」\n案、(二)委員賴士葆等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(三)\n委員張智倫等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員張嘉\n郡等23人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員賴士葆等26人\n擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十八條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「公\n務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條、第三十八條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員邱鎮\n軍等25 人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、( 八) 國民黨黨團擬具\n「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員林思銘等26人擬具「公務人\n員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十)委員陳超明等19人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員許宇甄等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員張智倫等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三條、第八條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員馬文君等20人擬具「公務人員退\n休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員傅崐萁等21人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員黃建賓等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十八)委員陳玉珍等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十\n八條條文修正草案」案、(二十)委員羅智強等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條\n文修正草案」案；二、併案審查(一)委員李彥秀等18人擬具「公務人員任用法第三十六條之一條\n文修正草案」案、(二)委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「公務人員任用法第二十八條之一條文修正草案」\n案","agenda_id":"1140301_00001"}}}