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\"end\": 69.667, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"爆\", \"start\": 69.667, \"end\": 70.868, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"彈\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 70.868, \"end\": 70.948, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 70.948, \"end\": 71.068, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 71.068, \"end\": 72.149, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 72.149, \"end\": 72.609, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"聽\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"吧\", \"start\": 72.609, \"end\": 73.529, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 73.529, \"end\": 73.79, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 73.79, \"end\": 73.91, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 73.91, \"end\": 73.99, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"誰\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 73.99, \"end\": 74.01, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 77.222, \"end\": 102.957, \"text\": \"不是啦你不要一直講馬前總統這個答案不一定正確這個是吳敦義先生說的這兩位都是國民黨的大佬年金改革一定要做不做會後悔年金改革不做會成為國家的未爆彈但是這兩位都做不到也沒辦法做也不能做也不會做\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 77.222, \"end\": 77.362, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 77.362, \"end\": 77.502, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 77.502, \"end\": 77.923, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 77.923, \"end\": 78.023, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 78.023, \"end\": 78.043, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 78.043, \"end\": 78.203, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 78.203, \"end\": 78.303, \"score\": 0.63}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 78.303, \"end\": 78.723, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"馬\"}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 78.723, \"end\": 79.423, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 79.423, \"end\": 79.523, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 79.523, \"end\": 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95.352, \"end\": 95.773, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"爆\", \"start\": 95.773, \"end\": 96.973, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"彈\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 96.973, \"end\": 97.133, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 97.133, \"end\": 97.694, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 97.694, \"end\": 98.574, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 98.574, \"end\": 98.794, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 98.794, \"end\": 98.934, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 98.934, \"end\": 99.054, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 99.054, \"end\": 100.135, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 100.135, \"end\": 100.215, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 100.215, \"end\": 100.535, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 100.535, \"end\": 100.735, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 100.735, \"end\": 101.696, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 101.696, \"end\": 101.816, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 101.816, \"end\": 101.936, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 101.936, \"end\": 102.136, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 102.136, \"end\": 102.516, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 102.516, \"end\": 102.656, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 102.656, \"end\": 102.937, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 102.937, \"end\": 102.957, \"score\": 0.695}]}, {\"start\": 104.008, \"end\": 128.354, \"text\": \"所以年金改革就由蔡英文來做這年金改革改了之後我想請問一下任市長對國家帶來什麼樣的正面影響我想他主要有兩個非常重大的意義就是一個永續的概念另外一個是世代公平正義的問題\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 104.008, \"end\": 104.268, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 104.268, \"end\": 104.448, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 104.448, \"end\": 104.828, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 104.828, \"end\": 105.208, \"score\": 0.948}, 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\"text\": \"所以本來是119年那因為我們我們做了年金改革本來會到140年對不對那現在如果要再把它改回來的話會再往前提早是不是這樣所以有可能就是你現在改回來台上這一線議事人員有可能領得到但是未來新進的公務人員大概一毛都領不到嘛是這樣嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 224.544, \"end\": 224.704, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 224.704, \"end\": 224.824, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 224.824, \"end\": 225.104, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 225.104, \"end\": 226.045, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 226.045, \"end\": 226.365, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 226.365, \"end\": 226.525, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 226.525, \"end\": 226.725, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 226.725, \"end\": 227.146, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 227.146, \"end\": 228.326, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 228.326, \"end\": 228.487, 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\"start\": 359.296, \"end\": 359.436, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 359.436, \"end\": 359.456, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:15,612 --> 00:00:33,272\n謝謝主席這個我剛剛在問說到底是要問市部長還是要問蘇仁市長兩個都互指對方都問了都問好了以示公平來兩位都上來坐太久對身體也不太好謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:36,058 --> 00:00:49,956\n委員好這個部長跟人事長請問一下你們有沒有聽過曾經有一位總統說年金改革一定要做今天不做明天就會後悔\n\n3\n00:00:52,019 --> 00:01:14,010\n可以指出這位是誰嗎馬英九先生2012年的時候說年金改革一定要做今天不做明天就會後悔那請問兩位有沒有聽過年金改革一定要快做否則將成國家的未爆彈有沒有有聽過吧那這位是誰說的\n\n4\n00:01:17,222 --> 00:01:42,957\n不是啦你不要一直講馬前總統這個答案不一定正確這個是吳敦義先生說的這兩位都是國民黨的大佬年金改革一定要做不做會後悔年金改革不做會成為國家的未爆彈但是這兩位都做不到也沒辦法做也不能做也不會做\n\n5\n00:01:44,008 --> 00:02:08,354\n所以年金改革就由蔡英文來做這年金改革改了之後我想請問一下任市長對國家帶來什麼樣的正面影響我想他主要有兩個非常重大的意義就是一個永續的概念另外一個是世代公平正義的問題\n\n6\n00:02:09,554 --> 00:02:11,836\n稅務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案案\n\n7\n00:02:21,274 --> 00:02:49,073\n那現在會面臨到什麼樣的狀況?你的永續是怎麼樣的永續?如果不做會不會破產?什麼時候破產?一定會破產一定會提早破產提早到什麼時候?119年119年就會破產嗎?轉眼就很快了嘛是不是?有可能我們現在坐在台上這幾位議事人員等到您退休的時候你已經沒有年金可以領的會不會出現這樣的狀況?\n\n8\n00:02:53,167 --> 00:03:18,273\n現在這幾位我看你們都還有大概一二十年才會退休嘛如果119年破產的話你們會領不到退休金喔是不是這樣好過去的這五六年年金的改革方案在實施之後延緩了破產的危機但是我們其實還有潛在的2.9兆的債務是不是這樣\n\n9\n00:03:20,461 --> 00:03:42,494\n如果現在按照國民黨委員的提案要再把它調整回來來部長會產生什麼樣的狀況就是會提早提早再把提早到什麼時候還是119年嗎還是因為過去因為有6年的緩衝所以會再晚一點點所以他又要往前大概在135年這樣\n\n10\n00:03:44,544 --> 00:04:08,382\n所以本來是119年那因為我們我們做了年金改革本來會到140年對不對那現在如果要再把它改回來的話會再往前提早是不是這樣所以有可能就是你現在改回來台上這一線議事人員有可能領得到但是未來新進的公務人員大概一毛都領不到嘛是這樣嗎\n\n11\n00:04:09,082 --> 00:04:29,823\n就是最近這幾年進來的同仁當然就會壓力都更大了請問一下這對國家是好事嗎這對未來新進的這一些新進的公務人員是好事嗎你要現在就告訴他你進來當公務人員但公家單位等到你退休的時候年金是破產的你一毛錢都沒得領因為前面領完了\n\n12\n00:04:30,922 --> 00:04:59,796\n是這樣嗎那如果是這樣我們應該應該老實的告訴大家不要再去考公務人員了因為你沒有退休年金可以領啊因為國民黨要把他改回去啦年金破產了年限會提早啊人事長跟權序部長我們不能說謊的你知道嗎如果是這樣你們應該要老實的告訴公務人員不要再去考公務人員了因為你們未來會沒有年金可以領等到你退休的時候\n\n13\n00:05:01,482 --> 00:05:27,879\n你只能望著壁紙在那裡吹風你沒有年金可以領欸這對國家是好事嗎對公務人員是好事嗎現在改你還是回來照顧給原來的那一個區塊那個所得替代率又回到上升的階段年金又提早破產你對後面的人員對後面願意報效國家的人要怎麼交代\n\n14\n00:05:29,468 --> 00:05:37,570\n撫卹法第16條條文修正草案．一）立法院第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n\n15\n00:05:58,735 --> 00:05:59,456\n撫卹法第十四條條文宣告\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n15612\t33272\t謝謝主席這個我剛剛在問說到底是要問市部長還是要問蘇仁市長兩個都互指對方都問了都問好了以示公平來兩位都上來坐太久對身體也不太好謝謝\n36058\t49956\t委員好這個部長跟人事長請問一下你們有沒有聽過曾經有一位總統說年金改革一定要做今天不做明天就會後悔\n52019\t74010\t可以指出這位是誰嗎馬英九先生2012年的時候說年金改革一定要做今天不做明天就會後悔那請問兩位有沒有聽過年金改革一定要快做否則將成國家的未爆彈有沒有有聽過吧那這位是誰說的\n77222\t102957\t不是啦你不要一直講馬前總統這個答案不一定正確這個是吳敦義先生說的這兩位都是國民黨的大佬年金改革一定要做不做會後悔年金改革不做會成為國家的未爆彈但是這兩位都做不到也沒辦法做也不能做也不會做\n104008\t128354\t所以年金改革就由蔡英文來做這年金改革改了之後我想請問一下任市長對國家帶來什麼樣的正面影響我想他主要有兩個非常重大的意義就是一個永續的概念另外一個是世代公平正義的問題\n129554\t131836\t稅務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案案\n141274\t169073\t那現在會面臨到什麼樣的狀況?你的永續是怎麼樣的永續?如果不做會不會破產?什麼時候破產?一定會破產一定會提早破產提早到什麼時候?119年119年就會破產嗎?轉眼就很快了嘛是不是?有可能我們現在坐在台上這幾位議事人員等到您退休的時候你已經沒有年金可以領的會不會出現這樣的狀況?\n173167\t198273\t現在這幾位我看你們都還有大概一二十年才會退休嘛如果119年破產的話你們會領不到退休金喔是不是這樣好過去的這五六年年金的改革方案在實施之後延緩了破產的危機但是我們其實還有潛在的2.9兆的債務是不是這樣\n200461\t222494\t如果現在按照國民黨委員的提案要再把它調整回來來部長會產生什麼樣的狀況就是會提早提早再把提早到什麼時候還是119年嗎還是因為過去因為有6年的緩衝所以會再晚一點點所以他又要往前大概在135年這樣\n224544\t248382\t所以本來是119年那因為我們我們做了年金改革本來會到140年對不對那現在如果要再把它改回來的話會再往前提早是不是這樣所以有可能就是你現在改回來台上這一線議事人員有可能領得到但是未來新進的公務人員大概一毛都領不到嘛是這樣嗎\n249082\t269823\t就是最近這幾年進來的同仁當然就會壓力都更大了請問一下這對國家是好事嗎這對未來新進的這一些新進的公務人員是好事嗎你要現在就告訴他你進來當公務人員但公家單位等到你退休的時候年金是破產的你一毛錢都沒得領因為前面領完了\n270922\t299796\t是這樣嗎那如果是這樣我們應該應該老實的告訴大家不要再去考公務人員了因為你沒有退休年金可以領啊因為國民黨要把他改回去啦年金破產了年限會提早啊人事長跟權序部長我們不能說謊的你知道嗎如果是這樣你們應該要老實的告訴公務人員不要再去考公務人員了因為你們未來會沒有年金可以領等到你退休的時候\n301482\t327879\t你只能望著壁紙在那裡吹風你沒有年金可以領欸這對國家是好事嗎對公務人員是好事嗎現在改你還是回來照顧給原來的那一個區塊那個所得替代率又回到上升的階段年金又提早破產你對後面的人員對後面願意報效國家的人要怎麼交代\n329468\t337570\t撫卹法第16條條文修正草案．一）立法院第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n358735\t359456\t撫卹法第十四條條文宣告\n","txt":"謝謝主席這個我剛剛在問說到底是要問市部長還是要問蘇仁市長兩個都互指對方都問了都問好了以示公平來兩位都上來坐太久對身體也不太好謝謝\n委員好這個部長跟人事長請問一下你們有沒有聽過曾經有一位總統說年金改革一定要做今天不做明天就會後悔\n可以指出這位是誰嗎馬英九先生2012年的時候說年金改革一定要做今天不做明天就會後悔那請問兩位有沒有聽過年金改革一定要快做否則將成國家的未爆彈有沒有有聽過吧那這位是誰說的\n不是啦你不要一直講馬前總統這個答案不一定正確這個是吳敦義先生說的這兩位都是國民黨的大佬年金改革一定要做不做會後悔年金改革不做會成為國家的未爆彈但是這兩位都做不到也沒辦法做也不能做也不會做\n所以年金改革就由蔡英文來做這年金改革改了之後我想請問一下任市長對國家帶來什麼樣的正面影響我想他主要有兩個非常重大的意義就是一個永續的概念另外一個是世代公平正義的問題\n稅務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案案\n那現在會面臨到什麼樣的狀況?你的永續是怎麼樣的永續?如果不做會不會破產?什麼時候破產?一定會破產一定會提早破產提早到什麼時候?119年119年就會破產嗎?轉眼就很快了嘛是不是?有可能我們現在坐在台上這幾位議事人員等到您退休的時候你已經沒有年金可以領的會不會出現這樣的狀況?\n現在這幾位我看你們都還有大概一二十年才會退休嘛如果119年破產的話你們會領不到退休金喔是不是這樣好過去的這五六年年金的改革方案在實施之後延緩了破產的危機但是我們其實還有潛在的2.9兆的債務是不是這樣\n如果現在按照國民黨委員的提案要再把它調整回來來部長會產生什麼樣的狀況就是會提早提早再把提早到什麼時候還是119年嗎還是因為過去因為有6年的緩衝所以會再晚一點點所以他又要往前大概在135年這樣\n所以本來是119年那因為我們我們做了年金改革本來會到140年對不對那現在如果要再把它改回來的話會再往前提早是不是這樣所以有可能就是你現在改回來台上這一線議事人員有可能領得到但是未來新進的公務人員大概一毛都領不到嘛是這樣嗎\n就是最近這幾年進來的同仁當然就會壓力都更大了請問一下這對國家是好事嗎這對未來新進的這一些新進的公務人員是好事嗎你要現在就告訴他你進來當公務人員但公家單位等到你退休的時候年金是破產的你一毛錢都沒得領因為前面領完了\n是這樣嗎那如果是這樣我們應該應該老實的告訴大家不要再去考公務人員了因為你沒有退休年金可以領啊因為國民黨要把他改回去啦年金破產了年限會提早啊人事長跟權序部長我們不能說謊的你知道嗎如果是這樣你們應該要老實的告訴公務人員不要再去考公務人員了因為你們未來會沒有年金可以領等到你退休的時候\n你只能望著壁紙在那裡吹風你沒有年金可以領欸這對國家是好事嗎對公務人員是好事嗎現在改你還是回來照顧給原來的那一個區塊那個所得替代率又回到上升的階段年金又提早破產你對後面的人員對後面願意報效國家的人要怎麼交代\n撫卹法第16條條文修正草案．一）立法院第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n撫卹法第十四條條文宣告\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:15.612 --> 00:33.272\n謝謝主席這個我剛剛在問說到底是要問市部長還是要問蘇仁市長兩個都互指對方都問了都問好了以示公平來兩位都上來坐太久對身體也不太好謝謝\n\n00:36.058 --> 00:49.956\n委員好這個部長跟人事長請問一下你們有沒有聽過曾經有一位總統說年金改革一定要做今天不做明天就會後悔\n\n00:52.019 --> 01:14.010\n可以指出這位是誰嗎馬英九先生2012年的時候說年金改革一定要做今天不做明天就會後悔那請問兩位有沒有聽過年金改革一定要快做否則將成國家的未爆彈有沒有有聽過吧那這位是誰說的\n\n01:17.222 --> 01:42.957\n不是啦你不要一直講馬前總統這個答案不一定正確這個是吳敦義先生說的這兩位都是國民黨的大佬年金改革一定要做不做會後悔年金改革不做會成為國家的未爆彈但是這兩位都做不到也沒辦法做也不能做也不會做\n\n01:44.008 --> 02:08.354\n所以年金改革就由蔡英文來做這年金改革改了之後我想請問一下任市長對國家帶來什麼樣的正面影響我想他主要有兩個非常重大的意義就是一個永續的概念另外一個是世代公平正義的問題\n\n02:09.554 --> 02:11.836\n稅務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案案\n\n02:21.274 --> 02:49.073\n那現在會面臨到什麼樣的狀況?你的永續是怎麼樣的永續?如果不做會不會破產?什麼時候破產?一定會破產一定會提早破產提早到什麼時候?119年119年就會破產嗎?轉眼就很快了嘛是不是?有可能我們現在坐在台上這幾位議事人員等到您退休的時候你已經沒有年金可以領的會不會出現這樣的狀況?\n\n02:53.167 --> 03:18.273\n現在這幾位我看你們都還有大概一二十年才會退休嘛如果119年破產的話你們會領不到退休金喔是不是這樣好過去的這五六年年金的改革方案在實施之後延緩了破產的危機但是我們其實還有潛在的2.9兆的債務是不是這樣\n\n03:20.461 --> 03:42.494\n如果現在按照國民黨委員的提案要再把它調整回來來部長會產生什麼樣的狀況就是會提早提早再把提早到什麼時候還是119年嗎還是因為過去因為有6年的緩衝所以會再晚一點點所以他又要往前大概在135年這樣\n\n03:44.544 --> 04:08.382\n所以本來是119年那因為我們我們做了年金改革本來會到140年對不對那現在如果要再把它改回來的話會再往前提早是不是這樣所以有可能就是你現在改回來台上這一線議事人員有可能領得到但是未來新進的公務人員大概一毛都領不到嘛是這樣嗎\n\n04:09.082 --> 04:29.823\n就是最近這幾年進來的同仁當然就會壓力都更大了請問一下這對國家是好事嗎這對未來新進的這一些新進的公務人員是好事嗎你要現在就告訴他你進來當公務人員但公家單位等到你退休的時候年金是破產的你一毛錢都沒得領因為前面領完了\n\n04:30.922 --> 04:59.796\n是這樣嗎那如果是這樣我們應該應該老實的告訴大家不要再去考公務人員了因為你沒有退休年金可以領啊因為國民黨要把他改回去啦年金破產了年限會提早啊人事長跟權序部長我們不能說謊的你知道嗎如果是這樣你們應該要老實的告訴公務人員不要再去考公務人員了因為你們未來會沒有年金可以領等到你退休的時候\n\n05:01.482 --> 05:27.879\n你只能望著壁紙在那裡吹風你沒有年金可以領欸這對國家是好事嗎對公務人員是好事嗎現在改你還是回來照顧給原來的那一個區塊那個所得替代率又回到上升的階段年金又提早破產你對後面的人員對後面願意報效國家的人要怎麼交代\n\n05:29.468 --> 05:37.570\n撫卹法第16條條文修正草案．一）立法院第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會\n\n05:58.735 --> 05:59.456\n撫卹法第十四條條文宣告\n\n","segments":[{"start":15.612,"end":33.272,"text":"謝謝主席這個我剛剛在問說到底是要問市部長還是要問蘇仁市長兩個都互指對方都問了都問好了以示公平來兩位都上來坐太久對身體也不太好謝謝"},{"start":36.058,"end":49.956,"text":"委員好這個部長跟人事長請問一下你們有沒有聽過曾經有一位總統說年金改革一定要做今天不做明天就會後悔"},{"start":52.019,"end":74.01,"text":"可以指出這位是誰嗎馬英九先生2012年的時候說年金改革一定要做今天不做明天就會後悔那請問兩位有沒有聽過年金改革一定要快做否則將成國家的未爆彈有沒有有聽過吧那這位是誰說的"},{"start":77.222,"end":102.957,"text":"不是啦你不要一直講馬前總統這個答案不一定正確這個是吳敦義先生說的這兩位都是國民黨的大佬年金改革一定要做不做會後悔年金改革不做會成為國家的未爆彈但是這兩位都做不到也沒辦法做也不能做也不會做"},{"start":104.008,"end":128.354,"text":"所以年金改革就由蔡英文來做這年金改革改了之後我想請問一下任市長對國家帶來什麼樣的正面影響我想他主要有兩個非常重大的意義就是一個永續的概念另外一個是世代公平正義的問題"},{"start":129.554,"end":131.836,"text":"稅務人員退休資遣撫卹法第18條條文修正草案案"},{"start":141.274,"end":169.073,"text":"那現在會面臨到什麼樣的狀況?你的永續是怎麼樣的永續?如果不做會不會破產?什麼時候破產?一定會破產一定會提早破產提早到什麼時候?119年119年就會破產嗎?轉眼就很快了嘛是不是?有可能我們現在坐在台上這幾位議事人員等到您退休的時候你已經沒有年金可以領的會不會出現這樣的狀況?"},{"start":173.167,"end":198.273,"text":"現在這幾位我看你們都還有大概一二十年才會退休嘛如果119年破產的話你們會領不到退休金喔是不是這樣好過去的這五六年年金的改革方案在實施之後延緩了破產的危機但是我們其實還有潛在的2.9兆的債務是不是這樣"},{"start":200.461,"end":222.494,"text":"如果現在按照國民黨委員的提案要再把它調整回來來部長會產生什麼樣的狀況就是會提早提早再把提早到什麼時候還是119年嗎還是因為過去因為有6年的緩衝所以會再晚一點點所以他又要往前大概在135年這樣"},{"start":224.544,"end":248.382,"text":"所以本來是119年那因為我們我們做了年金改革本來會到140年對不對那現在如果要再把它改回來的話會再往前提早是不是這樣所以有可能就是你現在改回來台上這一線議事人員有可能領得到但是未來新進的公務人員大概一毛都領不到嘛是這樣嗎"},{"start":249.082,"end":269.823,"text":"就是最近這幾年進來的同仁當然就會壓力都更大了請問一下這對國家是好事嗎這對未來新進的這一些新進的公務人員是好事嗎你要現在就告訴他你進來當公務人員但公家單位等到你退休的時候年金是破產的你一毛錢都沒得領因為前面領完了"},{"start":270.922,"end":299.796,"text":"是這樣嗎那如果是這樣我們應該應該老實的告訴大家不要再去考公務人員了因為你沒有退休年金可以領啊因為國民黨要把他改回去啦年金破產了年限會提早啊人事長跟權序部長我們不能說謊的你知道嗎如果是這樣你們應該要老實的告訴公務人員不要再去考公務人員了因為你們未來會沒有年金可以領等到你退休的時候"},{"start":301.482,"end":327.879,"text":"你只能望著壁紙在那裡吹風你沒有年金可以領欸這對國家是好事嗎對公務人員是好事嗎現在改你還是回來照顧給原來的那一個區塊那個所得替代率又回到上升的階段年金又提早破產你對後面的人員對後面願意報效國家的人要怎麼交代"},{"start":329.468,"end":337.57,"text":"撫卹法第16條條文修正草案．一）立法院第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會"},{"start":358.735,"end":359.456,"text":"撫卹法第十四條條文宣告"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1834,"blocks":[["邱委員議瑩：（17時28分）謝謝主席。我剛剛問到底要問施部長還是要問蘇人事長，兩個都互指對方，那麼都問好了，以示公平，請兩位都上來，坐太久對身體也不太好。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：委員好。"],["施部長能傑：委員好。"],["邱委員議瑩：部長、人事長，請問一下，你們有沒有聽過曾經有一位總統說年金改革一定要做，今天不做，明天就會後悔？有沒有？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：有。"],["邱委員議瑩：可以指出這位是誰嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：馬前總統。"],["邱委員議瑩：馬英九先生在2012年的時候說年金改革一定要做，今天不做，明天就會後悔。那請問兩位有沒有聽過年金改革一定要快做，否則將成國家的未爆彈，有沒有？有聽過吧？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：有。"],["邱委員議瑩：那這位是誰說的？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：一樣是馬前總統。"],["邱委員議瑩：不是啦，你不要一直講馬前總統，這個答案不一定正確，這個是吳敦義先生說的。這兩位都是國民黨的大老，年金改革一定要做，不做會後悔；年金改革不做會成為國家的未爆彈。但是這兩位都做不到，也沒辦法做，也不能做，也不會做，所以年金改革就由蔡英文來做。這個年金改革改了之後，我想請問一下人事長，對國家帶來什麼樣的正面影響？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我想它主要有兩個非常重大的意義，就是一個永續的概念，另外一個是世代公平正義的問題。"],["邱委員議瑩：如何永續的概念？人事長可不可以再簡單說明一下，如果年金改革不做的話，如果2018年我們的年金改革沒做的話，那現在會面臨到什麼樣的狀況？你的永續是怎麼樣的永續？如果不做會不會破產？什麼時候破產？"],["施部長能傑：一定會破產啊，一定會提早破產。"],["邱委員議瑩：提早到什麼時候？"],["施部長能傑：119年。"],["邱委員議瑩：119年就會破產嘛？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：119年到120年。"],["邱委員議瑩：轉眼就很快了嘛，是不是？有可能現在坐在台上這幾位議事人員，等到您退休的時候已經沒有年金可以領了，會不會出現這樣的狀況？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：機會還蠻高的。"],["邱委員議瑩：我看現在這幾位都大概還有一、二十年才會退休，如果119年破產的話，你們會領不到退休金喔，是不是這樣？過去這五、六年，年金改革方案在實施之後，延緩了破產的危機，但是我們其實還有潛在的2.9兆債務，是不是這樣？"],["施部長能傑：對，沒錯。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，如果現在按照國民黨委員的提案，要再把它調整回來，部長，會產生什麼樣的狀況？"],["施部長能傑：就是會提早再把基金……"],["邱委員議瑩：會提早到什麼時候？還是119年嗎？還是因為過去有6年的緩衝，所以會再晚一點點？"],["施部長能傑：已經移到140年了，又要把它往前，大概在135年。"],["邱委員議瑩：所以本來是119年，因為我們做了年金改革，本來會到140年，對不對？"],["施部長能傑：對。"],["邱委員議瑩：那現在如果要再把它改回來的話，會再往前提早，是不是這樣？"],["施部長能傑：沒錯。"],["邱委員議瑩：所以有可能就是現在改回來，台上這些議事人員有可能領得到，但是未來新進的公務人員大概一毛都領不到，是這樣嗎？"],["施部長能傑：就是最近這幾年進來的同仁當然壓力就會更大了。"],["邱委員議瑩：請問一下，這對國家是好事嗎？這對未來這一些新進公務人員是好事嗎？你要現在就告訴他，你進來當公務人員，但公家單位等到你退休的時候年金是破產的，你一毛錢都沒得領，因為前面領完了，是這樣嗎？那如果是這樣，我們應該老實的告訴大家，不要再去考公務人員了，因為你沒有退休年金可以領啊，因為國民黨要把它改回去啦，年金破產了，年限會提早啊！人事長、銓敘部長，我們不能說謊的知道嗎？如果是這樣，你們應該要老實的告訴那些公務人員，不要再去考公務人員了，因為你們未來會沒有年金可以領，等到你退休的時候，你只能望著壁紙在那裡吹風，你沒有年金可以領耶，這對國家是好事嗎？對公務人員是好事嗎？現在改，你還是回來照顧給原來的那一個區塊，那個所得替代率又回到上升的階段，年金又提早破產，你對後面的人員，對後面願意報效國家的人要怎麼交代？看不出來嘛！雖然我平常不是很同意馬英九先生的話，不過馬英九先生講的這一段話，我倒是認同的，年金改革一定要做，一定要做，臺灣不能再走回頭路啊！這件事情我希望人事長跟銓敘部，我們一定要站穩我們的立場，年金改革如果再走回頭路，臺灣就沒有了，那這是滿足了誰？好到了誰？把臺灣整個弄到滅亡，會好到了什麼人？大家應該心裡有數啦。謝謝！"],["施部長能傑：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝邱委員。","下一位請邱志偉委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-18","speakers":["吳宗憲","賴士葆","翁曉玲","張嘉郡","羅智強","黃建賓","林思銘","張智倫","黃健豪","許宇甄","鍾佳濱","吳思瑤","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","王義川","李彥秀","吳沛憶","沈伯洋","林宜瑾","陳俊宇","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","林德福","鄭天財Sra 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國民黨黨團擬具\n「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員林思銘等26人擬具「公務人\n員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十)委員陳超明等19人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員許宇甄等20人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公務人員退休資\n遣撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員張智倫等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹\n法第三條、第八條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員馬文君等20人擬具「公務人員退\n休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員傅崐萁等21人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員王鴻薇等25人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員黃建賓等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣\n撫卹法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十八)委員陳玉珍等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法\n第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十\n八條條文修正草案」案、(二十)委員羅智強等16人擬具「公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第三十七條條\n文修正草案」案；二、併案審查(一)委員李彥秀等18人擬具「公務人員任用法第三十六條之一條\n文修正草案」案、(二)委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「公務人員任用法第二十八條之一條文修正草案」\n案","agenda_id":"1140301_00001"}}}