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00:00:37,822\n主委午安,辛苦了一整天下午安,大家辛苦本期在這邊首先也要讓全國的民眾知道就是說中華民國的憲法就是有明文的規定人民就是有選舉罷免創制及覆決之權罷免權是憲法明定的參政權\n\n3\n00:00:44,446 --> 00:00:52,791\n是基於直接民權所定的一個制度,所以我們的鄉親百姓就是有依憲法行使罷免權的權利。\n\n4\n00:00:57,710 --> 00:00:59,752\n在過去進行罷免的連署階段所設立的門檻是非常高,也被百姓稱為鳥籠罷免。\n\n5\n00:01:15,669 --> 00:01:23,752\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．\n\n6\n00:01:40,198 --> 00:01:56,846\n雙重的二分之一的一個規定就是這個投票數要超過選舉人數50%以及同意罷免的票數要超過有效票數二分之一就是我們所稱的雙二一的這樣子一個制度把它就是修正為同意票數超過選舉人數25%還有同意票超過不同意票這個罷免案就成立嘛\n\n7\n00:02:05,431 --> 00:02:11,119\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。\n\n8\n00:02:21,716 --> 00:02:44,680\n這個我就沒有辦法做揣測只要他是符合條件他有權利來行事我們知道我們是民主的國家我們就是用民主的選舉的制度選出民意代表就是從中央一直到地方各級的民意代表那民意代表的職責是做什麼呢就是所謂的代議士就是替民眾替百姓來表達這個民意\n\n9\n00:02:47,381 --> 00:02:55,687\n審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九\n\n10\n00:03:14,079 --> 00:03:37,913\n所以如果說被人民選出來的民意代表他沒有違背民意他的言行操守不要太離譜那都是能夠符合民眾的期待的話你想民眾會這樣子無緣無故提出罷免案嗎我想百姓也沒說這樣吃飽贏贏沒事情就是隨便去搞一個罷免案吧\n\n11\n00:03:39,594 --> 00:03:42,556\n因為我們經過第一階段第二階段都有這樣子的一個連署的一個門檻也不是那麼容易的嘛對不對所以今天國民黨他們要提出說要這個同意罷免的人數要高於就是他的當選的一個票數這樣子的一個門檻實際上就是為這個選罷法設下更高的一個門檻\n\n12\n00:04:02,890 --> 00:04:11,742\n當年陳柏惟被罷免時,同意票數高於不同意票數,同意票數低於當選票數,當時朱立倫的態度是什麼?\n\n13\n00:04:17,870 --> 00:04:19,992\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．\n\n14\n00:04:42,210 --> 00:04:45,191\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10314\t10915\t主席李竺偉\n22752\t37822\t主委午安,辛苦了一整天下午安,大家辛苦本期在這邊首先也要讓全國的民眾知道就是說中華民國的憲法就是有明文的規定人民就是有選舉罷免創制及覆決之權罷免權是憲法明定的參政權\n44446\t52791\t是基於直接民權所定的一個制度,所以我們的鄉親百姓就是有依憲法行使罷免權的權利。\n57710\t59752\t在過去進行罷免的連署階段所設立的門檻是非常高,也被百姓稱為鳥籠罷免。\n75669\t83752\t二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．\n100198\t116846\t雙重的二分之一的一個規定就是這個投票數要超過選舉人數50%以及同意罷免的票數要超過有效票數二分之一就是我們所稱的雙二一的這樣子一個制度把它就是修正為同意票數超過選舉人數25%還有同意票超過不同意票這個罷免案就成立嘛\n125431\t131119\t二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。\n141716\t164680\t這個我就沒有辦法做揣測只要他是符合條件他有權利來行事我們知道我們是民主的國家我們就是用民主的選舉的制度選出民意代表就是從中央一直到地方各級的民意代表那民意代表的職責是做什麼呢就是所謂的代議士就是替民眾替百姓來表達這個民意\n167381\t175687\t審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九\n194079\t217913\t所以如果說被人民選出來的民意代表他沒有違背民意他的言行操守不要太離譜那都是能夠符合民眾的期待的話你想民眾會這樣子無緣無故提出罷免案嗎我想百姓也沒說這樣吃飽贏贏沒事情就是隨便去搞一個罷免案吧\n219594\t222556\t因為我們經過第一階段第二階段都有這樣子的一個連署的一個門檻也不是那麼容易的嘛對不對所以今天國民黨他們要提出說要這個同意罷免的人數要高於就是他的當選的一個票數這樣子的一個門檻實際上就是為這個選罷法設下更高的一個門檻\n242890\t251742\t當年陳柏惟被罷免時,同意票數高於不同意票數,同意票數低於當選票數,當時朱立倫的態度是什麼?\n257870\t259992\t二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．\n282210\t285191\t二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n","txt":"主席李竺偉\n主委午安,辛苦了一整天下午安,大家辛苦本期在這邊首先也要讓全國的民眾知道就是說中華民國的憲法就是有明文的規定人民就是有選舉罷免創制及覆決之權罷免權是憲法明定的參政權\n是基於直接民權所定的一個制度,所以我們的鄉親百姓就是有依憲法行使罷免權的權利。\n在過去進行罷免的連署階段所設立的門檻是非常高,也被百姓稱為鳥籠罷免。\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．\n雙重的二分之一的一個規定就是這個投票數要超過選舉人數50%以及同意罷免的票數要超過有效票數二分之一就是我們所稱的雙二一的這樣子一個制度把它就是修正為同意票數超過選舉人數25%還有同意票超過不同意票這個罷免案就成立嘛\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。\n這個我就沒有辦法做揣測只要他是符合條件他有權利來行事我們知道我們是民主的國家我們就是用民主的選舉的制度選出民意代表就是從中央一直到地方各級的民意代表那民意代表的職責是做什麼呢就是所謂的代議士就是替民眾替百姓來表達這個民意\n審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九\n所以如果說被人民選出來的民意代表他沒有違背民意他的言行操守不要太離譜那都是能夠符合民眾的期待的話你想民眾會這樣子無緣無故提出罷免案嗎我想百姓也沒說這樣吃飽贏贏沒事情就是隨便去搞一個罷免案吧\n因為我們經過第一階段第二階段都有這樣子的一個連署的一個門檻也不是那麼容易的嘛對不對所以今天國民黨他們要提出說要這個同意罷免的人數要高於就是他的當選的一個票數這樣子的一個門檻實際上就是為這個選罷法設下更高的一個門檻\n當年陳柏惟被罷免時,同意票數高於不同意票數,同意票數低於當選票數,當時朱立倫的態度是什麼?\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.314 --> 00:10.915\n主席李竺偉\n\n00:22.752 --> 00:37.822\n主委午安,辛苦了一整天下午安,大家辛苦本期在這邊首先也要讓全國的民眾知道就是說中華民國的憲法就是有明文的規定人民就是有選舉罷免創制及覆決之權罷免權是憲法明定的參政權\n\n00:44.446 --> 00:52.791\n是基於直接民權所定的一個制度,所以我們的鄉親百姓就是有依憲法行使罷免權的權利。\n\n00:57.710 --> 00:59.752\n在過去進行罷免的連署階段所設立的門檻是非常高,也被百姓稱為鳥籠罷免。\n\n01:15.669 --> 01:23.752\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．\n\n01:40.198 --> 01:56.846\n雙重的二分之一的一個規定就是這個投票數要超過選舉人數50%以及同意罷免的票數要超過有效票數二分之一就是我們所稱的雙二一的這樣子一個制度把它就是修正為同意票數超過選舉人數25%還有同意票超過不同意票這個罷免案就成立嘛\n\n02:05.431 --> 02:11.119\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。\n\n02:21.716 --> 02:44.680\n這個我就沒有辦法做揣測只要他是符合條件他有權利來行事我們知道我們是民主的國家我們就是用民主的選舉的制度選出民意代表就是從中央一直到地方各級的民意代表那民意代表的職責是做什麼呢就是所謂的代議士就是替民眾替百姓來表達這個民意\n\n02:47.381 --> 02:55.687\n審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九\n\n03:14.079 --> 03:37.913\n所以如果說被人民選出來的民意代表他沒有違背民意他的言行操守不要太離譜那都是能夠符合民眾的期待的話你想民眾會這樣子無緣無故提出罷免案嗎我想百姓也沒說這樣吃飽贏贏沒事情就是隨便去搞一個罷免案吧\n\n03:39.594 --> 03:42.556\n因為我們經過第一階段第二階段都有這樣子的一個連署的一個門檻也不是那麼容易的嘛對不對所以今天國民黨他們要提出說要這個同意罷免的人數要高於就是他的當選的一個票數這樣子的一個門檻實際上就是為這個選罷法設下更高的一個門檻\n\n04:02.890 --> 04:11.742\n當年陳柏惟被罷免時,同意票數高於不同意票數,同意票數低於當選票數,當時朱立倫的態度是什麼?\n\n04:17.870 --> 04:19.992\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．\n\n04:42.210 --> 04:45.191\n二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.314,"end":10.915,"text":"主席李竺偉"},{"start":22.752,"end":37.822,"text":"主委午安,辛苦了一整天下午安,大家辛苦本期在這邊首先也要讓全國的民眾知道就是說中華民國的憲法就是有明文的規定人民就是有選舉罷免創制及覆決之權罷免權是憲法明定的參政權"},{"start":44.446,"end":52.791,"text":"是基於直接民權所定的一個制度,所以我們的鄉親百姓就是有依憲法行使罷免權的權利。"},{"start":57.71,"end":59.752,"text":"在過去進行罷免的連署階段所設立的門檻是非常高,也被百姓稱為鳥籠罷免。"},{"start":75.669,"end":83.752,"text":"二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六條及第六十九條條文修正草案．"},{"start":100.198,"end":116.846,"text":"雙重的二分之一的一個規定就是這個投票數要超過選舉人數50%以及同意罷免的票數要超過有效票數二分之一就是我們所稱的雙二一的這樣子一個制度把它就是修正為同意票數超過選舉人數25%還有同意票超過不同意票這個罷免案就成立嘛"},{"start":125.431,"end":131.119,"text":"二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。 二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案。"},{"start":141.716,"end":164.68,"text":"這個我就沒有辦法做揣測只要他是符合條件他有權利來行事我們知道我們是民主的國家我們就是用民主的選舉的制度選出民意代表就是從中央一直到地方各級的民意代表那民意代表的職責是做什麼呢就是所謂的代議士就是替民眾替百姓來表達這個民意"},{"start":167.381,"end":175.687,"text":"審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計八條及第六十九"},{"start":194.079,"end":217.913,"text":"所以如果說被人民選出來的民意代表他沒有違背民意他的言行操守不要太離譜那都是能夠符合民眾的期待的話你想民眾會這樣子無緣無故提出罷免案嗎我想百姓也沒說這樣吃飽贏贏沒事情就是隨便去搞一個罷免案吧"},{"start":219.594,"end":222.556,"text":"因為我們經過第一階段第二階段都有這樣子的一個連署的一個門檻也不是那麼容易的嘛對不對所以今天國民黨他們要提出說要這個同意罷免的人數要高於就是他的當選的一個票數這樣子的一個門檻實際上就是為這個選罷法設下更高的一個門檻"},{"start":242.89,"end":251.742,"text":"當年陳柏惟被罷免時,同意票數高於不同意票數,同意票數低於當選票數,當時朱立倫的態度是什麼?"},{"start":257.87,"end":259.992,"text":"二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計六案．計六案．計六案．"},{"start":282.21,"end":285.191,"text":"二、審查委員楊曜等二十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案案。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1544,"blocks":[["陳委員素月：（17時15分）謝謝主席，請主席邀請李主委。"],["主席：請李主委。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員好。"],["陳委員素月：主委，午安！這樣一整天下來，辛苦了！"],["李主任委員進勇：大家辛苦了！"],["陳委員素月：首先要讓全國民眾知道，中華民國憲法明文規定，人民有選舉、罷免、創制及複決之權。罷免權是憲法明定的參政權，是基於直接民權所制定的制度，所以我們的選民、我們的鄉親百姓有依憲法行使罷免權的權利，對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["陳委員素月：但是我們都知道過去進行罷免連署這個階段的門檻非常高，也因此被民眾稱為鳥籠罷免，於是我們在2016年針對這個門檻做了一些修訂。包括第一階段提案人數門檻從2%降為1%、第二階段的連署人數門檻從13%降為10%。最終階段有關於投票人數的門檻，從雙重二分之一的規定，投票數超過選舉人數50%以及同意罷免票數超過有效票數的二分之一，也就是我們所稱的雙二一制度，修正為同意票數超過選舉人數的25%以及同意票超過不同意票，這個罷免案就可以成立。"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["陳委員素月：這樣才能確保罷免權確實是可以被行使的。請教主委，在什麼樣的情況下，人民會提起罷免？"],["李主任委員進勇：這個我就沒辦法揣測了。"],["陳委員素月：你沒辦法揣測？"],["李主任委員進勇：是，只要符合條件就有權利行使。"],["陳委員素月：我們是民主國家，當然是用民主的選舉制度選出民意代表，從中央一直到地方的各級民意代表皆是如此，然而民意代表的職責是什麼呢？他們是所謂的代議士，代替民眾、代替百姓表達民意、反映民意，並爭取百姓的權益。在人民行使選舉權選出心中的代議士之後，當然他們也有權利監督民意代表的表現，對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["陳委員素月：針對民意代表的言行操守、議事態度及表決立場等等，這些都是可以監督檢驗的。如果被人民選出的民意代表沒有違背民意，言行操守不要太離譜，而且能夠符合民眾的期待，你認為民眾會無緣無故提出罷免案嗎？我想百姓也不會吃飽閒閒沒事做，隨便就去搞一個罷免案吧！畢竟要經過第一階段及第二階段的連署門檻也不是那麼的容易，對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["陳委員素月：今天國民黨提出同意罷免的人數要高於當選的票數，這樣的提議實際上就是為這個選罷法設下更高的門檻。我們也看到當年陳柏惟被罷免的同意票數是高於不同意票數，但是這個同意票數是低於他的當選票數，因為他是十一萬多票當選。當時朱立倫的態度是什麼？他說這是民主的勝利！國民黨的主席喊說這是民主的勝利！今天國民黨再來提出罷免案成立一定要同意票數高於當選票數，這樣不是打他們主席的臉嗎？因此，我希望國民黨及民眾黨的立委能夠好好思考，站在民意的這一邊，不要老是想著自己的權益，況且4年的選舉很快就會到了，就算無法施行罷免的權利，等到再次選舉的時候，我相信選民的眼睛是雪亮的，他們還會用選票檢驗候選人的表現，謝謝。"],["李主任委員進勇：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳素月委員。","接下來請吳秉叡委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":126,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-14","speakers":["徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","黃捷","王美惠","張宏陸","高金素梅","李坤城","蔡易餘","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","黃建賓","張智倫","吳琪銘","牛煦庭","吳沛憶","陳菁徽","張嘉郡","翁曉玲","張啓楷","洪孟楷","徐巧芯","林楚茵","吳思瑤","郭國文","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林俊憲","張雅琳","林思銘","黃秀芳","許智傑","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","王義川","莊瑞雄","廖先翔","林宜瑾","林淑芬","賴惠員","傅崐萁","陳素月","吳秉叡","王正旭","徐富癸","邱志偉","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","郭昱晴","林月琴","邱議瑩","李昆澤","葉元之","陳瑩","劉建國","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-05"],"gazette_id":"1140201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於中央選舉委員會及所屬單位預算；二、審查「公職人員\n選舉罷免法」修正草案，計六案：(一)審查委員楊曜等17人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七\n條及第六十九條條文修正草案」案、(二)審查委員蘇清泉等23人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第六\n十九條條文修正草案」案、(三)審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第五十三條條\n文修正草案」案、(四)審查委員陳冠廷等25人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第五十二條條文修正草\n案」案、(五)審查委員許宇甄等39人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第七十五條及第九十條條文修正\n草案」案、(六)審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第三十二條及第四十三條條文修\n正草案」案","agenda_id":"1140201_00001"}}}