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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 245.108, \"end\": 245.128, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,448 --> 00:00:03,827\n主席,麻煩主委。好,請立主委。\n\n2\n00:00:11,939 --> 00:00:34,955\n主委辛苦了已經到傍晚時間了那針對翁小林委員等人提案選罷法的第53條要將禁止發布民調時間從選前的10天縮短為前3天關於這點我覺得大家可以好好的想一想為什麼過去許多區域立委、民意代表常常指控受到假民調的攻擊、假訊息的干擾\n\n3\n00:00:36,456 --> 00:01:04,775\n導致影響最後選舉的結果當初設計十天前禁止發布民調用意也是如果真的有假民調假訊息要給候選人有一個澄清的機會關於委員提案縮短為三天我不曉得用意為何難道是謀刀霍霍要幹什麼大事嗎這個制度設計就是要保護臺灣民主制度避免惡意操作這樣的胡亂修法我擔心會有無法想像的後果所以想問諸位\n\n4\n00:01:05,815 --> 00:01:20,302\n十天前調整成三天不能夠發布民調,你認為會有什麼問題?我們看不到把十天縮短為三天的必要性過去這十天也是有公式的,而且運作已經有一段時間了\n\n5\n00:01:22,504 --> 00:01:36,338\n二、有關徐宇珍委員修法的版本要將《選罷法》的九十條修正為同意票數超過被罷免人的得票數我更是深感不解攤開我國選舉的歷程\n\n6\n00:01:39,451 --> 00:02:05,406\n罷免的投票率普遍低於一般的投票這變相加嚴了罷免的條件也導致了被民眾戲稱鳥籠罷免此外目前的現行機制我必須坦白說無論哪個政黨的民意代表都有面臨過選民的挑戰有罷免成功也有罷免失敗的這也代表目前制度不分顏色不分黨派都促使民意代表\n\n7\n00:02:05,846 --> 00:02:21,560\n二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計四、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計五、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計四、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條條文修正草案．計五、審查\n\n8\n00:02:22,721 --> 00:02:49,615\n我們已經做過很多次的說明最重要的就是它的利潤基礎是不存在的因為兩個數字它所產生的這個基礎是完全不一樣包括投票率包括當選人的人數包括候選人的人數都不一樣這些都是一些變相既然這個基礎不一樣的話你就沒有辦法拿它所產出的這個數字來做比較\n\n9\n00:02:53,103 --> 00:03:22,084\n那你覺得這是一種很簡單的講很簡單的講就是你不能夠用這個選舉投票時的民意要來壓制這個這個罷免投票時的民意因為罷免投票時的民意才是最新的民意經過至少一年半以後那麼很多在當初的民意可能會發生變動會發生變動所以他已經不具參考的價值了\n\n10\n00:03:22,970 --> 00:03:24,240\n所以這是不是一種鳥籠罷免、假罷免?\n\n11\n00:03:28,450 --> 00:03:55,358\n是不是假罷免他真的要罷免是真的要罷免可是基本上門檻調得這麼高的時候根本就是做不到不是嗎所以目前我覺得現行的罷免機制不管藍綠過去真的是有成功也有失敗有投票通過罷免也有否決不管藍綠職位高低民意代表都真的是必須戰戰兢兢來接受民意的監督跟檢視\n\n12\n00:03:56,539 --> 00:04:05,128\n這也是我們的選舉罷免精神所在所以如今藍白要沒收了不知道是害怕還是霸道好以上謝謝好謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1448\t3827\t主席,麻煩主委。好,請立主委。\n11939\t34955\t主委辛苦了 已經到傍晚時間了那針對翁小林委員等人提案選罷法的第53條要將禁止發布民調時間從選前的10天縮短為前3天關於這點我覺得大家可以好好的想一想為什麼過去許多區域立委、民意代表常常指控受到假民調的攻擊、假訊息的干擾\n36456\t64775\t導致影響最後選舉的結果當初設計十天前禁止發布民調用意也是如果真的有假民調假訊息要給候選人有一個澄清的機會關於委員提案縮短為三天我不曉得用意為何難道是謀刀霍霍要幹什麼大事嗎這個制度設計就是要保護臺灣民主制度避免惡意操作這樣的胡亂修法我擔心會有無法想像的後果所以想問諸位\n65815\t80302\t十天前調整成三天不能夠發布民調,你認為會有什麼問題?我們看不到把十天縮短為三天的必要性過去這十天也是有公式的,而且運作已經有一段時間了\n82504\t96338\t二、有關徐宇珍委員修法的版本要將《選罷法》的九十條修正為同意票數超過被罷免人的得票數我更是深感不解攤開我國選舉的歷程\n99451\t125406\t罷免的投票率普遍低於一般的投票這變相加嚴了罷免的條件也導致了被民眾戲稱鳥籠罷免此外目前的現行機制我必須坦白說無論哪個政黨的民意代表都有面臨過選民的挑戰有罷免成功也有罷免失敗的這也代表目前制度不分顏色不分黨派都促使民意代表\n125846\t141560\t二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計四、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計五、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計四、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條條文修正草案．計五、審查\n142721\t169615\t我們已經做過很多次的說明最重要的就是它的利潤基礎是不存在的因為兩個數字它所產生的這個基礎是完全不一樣包括投票率包括當選人的人數包括候選人的人數都不一樣這些都是一些變相既然這個基礎不一樣的話你就沒有辦法拿它所產出的這個數字來做比較\n173103\t202084\t那你覺得這是一種很簡單的講很簡單的講就是你不能夠用這個選舉投票時的民意要來壓制這個這個罷免投票時的民意因為罷免投票時的民意才是最新的民意經過至少一年半以後那麼很多在當初的民意可能會發生變動會發生變動所以他已經不具參考的價值了\n202970\t204240\t所以這是不是一種鳥籠罷免、假罷免?\n208450\t235358\t是不是假罷免他真的要罷免是真的要罷免可是基本上門檻調得這麼高的時候根本就是做不到不是嗎所以目前我覺得現行的罷免機制不管藍綠過去真的是有成功也有失敗有投票通過罷免也有否決不管藍綠職位高低民意代表都真的是必須戰戰兢兢來接受民意的監督跟檢視\n236539\t245128\t這也是我們的選舉罷免精神所在所以如今藍白要沒收了不知道是害怕還是霸道好 以上謝謝好 謝謝委員\n","txt":"主席,麻煩主委。好,請立主委。\n主委辛苦了 已經到傍晚時間了那針對翁小林委員等人提案選罷法的第53條要將禁止發布民調時間從選前的10天縮短為前3天關於這點我覺得大家可以好好的想一想為什麼過去許多區域立委、民意代表常常指控受到假民調的攻擊、假訊息的干擾\n導致影響最後選舉的結果當初設計十天前禁止發布民調用意也是如果真的有假民調假訊息要給候選人有一個澄清的機會關於委員提案縮短為三天我不曉得用意為何難道是謀刀霍霍要幹什麼大事嗎這個制度設計就是要保護臺灣民主制度避免惡意操作這樣的胡亂修法我擔心會有無法想像的後果所以想問諸位\n十天前調整成三天不能夠發布民調,你認為會有什麼問題?我們看不到把十天縮短為三天的必要性過去這十天也是有公式的,而且運作已經有一段時間了\n二、有關徐宇珍委員修法的版本要將《選罷法》的九十條修正為同意票數超過被罷免人的得票數我更是深感不解攤開我國選舉的歷程\n罷免的投票率普遍低於一般的投票這變相加嚴了罷免的條件也導致了被民眾戲稱鳥籠罷免此外目前的現行機制我必須坦白說無論哪個政黨的民意代表都有面臨過選民的挑戰有罷免成功也有罷免失敗的這也代表目前制度不分顏色不分黨派都促使民意代表\n二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計四、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計五、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計四、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條條文修正草案．計五、審查\n我們已經做過很多次的說明最重要的就是它的利潤基礎是不存在的因為兩個數字它所產生的這個基礎是完全不一樣包括投票率包括當選人的人數包括候選人的人數都不一樣這些都是一些變相既然這個基礎不一樣的話你就沒有辦法拿它所產出的這個數字來做比較\n那你覺得這是一種很簡單的講很簡單的講就是你不能夠用這個選舉投票時的民意要來壓制這個這個罷免投票時的民意因為罷免投票時的民意才是最新的民意經過至少一年半以後那麼很多在當初的民意可能會發生變動會發生變動所以他已經不具參考的價值了\n所以這是不是一種鳥籠罷免、假罷免?\n是不是假罷免他真的要罷免是真的要罷免可是基本上門檻調得這麼高的時候根本就是做不到不是嗎所以目前我覺得現行的罷免機制不管藍綠過去真的是有成功也有失敗有投票通過罷免也有否決不管藍綠職位高低民意代表都真的是必須戰戰兢兢來接受民意的監督跟檢視\n這也是我們的選舉罷免精神所在所以如今藍白要沒收了不知道是害怕還是霸道好 以上謝謝好 謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.448 --> 00:03.827\n主席,麻煩主委。好,請立主委。\n\n00:11.939 --> 00:34.955\n主委辛苦了已經到傍晚時間了那針對翁小林委員等人提案選罷法的第53條要將禁止發布民調時間從選前的10天縮短為前3天關於這點我覺得大家可以好好的想一想為什麼過去許多區域立委、民意代表常常指控受到假民調的攻擊、假訊息的干擾\n\n00:36.456 --> 01:04.775\n導致影響最後選舉的結果當初設計十天前禁止發布民調用意也是如果真的有假民調假訊息要給候選人有一個澄清的機會關於委員提案縮短為三天我不曉得用意為何難道是謀刀霍霍要幹什麼大事嗎這個制度設計就是要保護臺灣民主制度避免惡意操作這樣的胡亂修法我擔心會有無法想像的後果所以想問諸位\n\n01:05.815 --> 01:20.302\n十天前調整成三天不能夠發布民調,你認為會有什麼問題?我們看不到把十天縮短為三天的必要性過去這十天也是有公式的,而且運作已經有一段時間了\n\n01:22.504 --> 01:36.338\n二、有關徐宇珍委員修法的版本要將《選罷法》的九十條修正為同意票數超過被罷免人的得票數我更是深感不解攤開我國選舉的歷程\n\n01:39.451 --> 02:05.406\n罷免的投票率普遍低於一般的投票這變相加嚴了罷免的條件也導致了被民眾戲稱鳥籠罷免此外目前的現行機制我必須坦白說無論哪個政黨的民意代表都有面臨過選民的挑戰有罷免成功也有罷免失敗的這也代表目前制度不分顏色不分黨派都促使民意代表\n\n02:05.846 --> 02:21.560\n二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計四、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計五、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計四、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條條文修正草案．計五、審查\n\n02:22.721 --> 02:49.615\n我們已經做過很多次的說明最重要的就是它的利潤基礎是不存在的因為兩個數字它所產生的這個基礎是完全不一樣包括投票率包括當選人的人數包括候選人的人數都不一樣這些都是一些變相既然這個基礎不一樣的話你就沒有辦法拿它所產出的這個數字來做比較\n\n02:53.103 --> 03:22.084\n那你覺得這是一種很簡單的講很簡單的講就是你不能夠用這個選舉投票時的民意要來壓制這個這個罷免投票時的民意因為罷免投票時的民意才是最新的民意經過至少一年半以後那麼很多在當初的民意可能會發生變動會發生變動所以他已經不具參考的價值了\n\n03:22.970 --> 03:24.240\n所以這是不是一種鳥籠罷免、假罷免?\n\n03:28.450 --> 03:55.358\n是不是假罷免他真的要罷免是真的要罷免可是基本上門檻調得這麼高的時候根本就是做不到不是嗎所以目前我覺得現行的罷免機制不管藍綠過去真的是有成功也有失敗有投票通過罷免也有否決不管藍綠職位高低民意代表都真的是必須戰戰兢兢來接受民意的監督跟檢視\n\n03:56.539 --> 04:05.128\n這也是我們的選舉罷免精神所在所以如今藍白要沒收了不知道是害怕還是霸道好以上謝謝好謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.448,"end":3.827,"text":"主席,麻煩主委。好,請立主委。"},{"start":11.939,"end":34.955,"text":"主委辛苦了 已經到傍晚時間了那針對翁小林委員等人提案選罷法的第53條要將禁止發布民調時間從選前的10天縮短為前3天關於這點我覺得大家可以好好的想一想為什麼過去許多區域立委、民意代表常常指控受到假民調的攻擊、假訊息的干擾"},{"start":36.456,"end":64.775,"text":"導致影響最後選舉的結果當初設計十天前禁止發布民調用意也是如果真的有假民調假訊息要給候選人有一個澄清的機會關於委員提案縮短為三天我不曉得用意為何難道是謀刀霍霍要幹什麼大事嗎這個制度設計就是要保護臺灣民主制度避免惡意操作這樣的胡亂修法我擔心會有無法想像的後果所以想問諸位"},{"start":65.815,"end":80.302,"text":"十天前調整成三天不能夠發布民調,你認為會有什麼問題?我們看不到把十天縮短為三天的必要性過去這十天也是有公式的,而且運作已經有一段時間了"},{"start":82.504,"end":96.338,"text":"二、有關徐宇珍委員修法的版本要將《選罷法》的九十條修正為同意票數超過被罷免人的得票數我更是深感不解攤開我國選舉的歷程"},{"start":99.451,"end":125.406,"text":"罷免的投票率普遍低於一般的投票這變相加嚴了罷免的條件也導致了被民眾戲稱鳥籠罷免此外目前的現行機制我必須坦白說無論哪個政黨的民意代表都有面臨過選民的挑戰有罷免成功也有罷免失敗的這也代表目前制度不分顏色不分黨派都促使民意代表"},{"start":125.846,"end":141.56,"text":"二、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計六案．計四、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計五、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案．計四、審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條條文修正草案．計五、審查"},{"start":142.721,"end":169.615,"text":"我們已經做過很多次的說明最重要的就是它的利潤基礎是不存在的因為兩個數字它所產生的這個基礎是完全不一樣包括投票率包括當選人的人數包括候選人的人數都不一樣這些都是一些變相既然這個基礎不一樣的話你就沒有辦法拿它所產出的這個數字來做比較"},{"start":173.103,"end":202.084,"text":"那你覺得這是一種很簡單的講很簡單的講就是你不能夠用這個選舉投票時的民意要來壓制這個這個罷免投票時的民意因為罷免投票時的民意才是最新的民意經過至少一年半以後那麼很多在當初的民意可能會發生變動會發生變動所以他已經不具參考的價值了"},{"start":202.97,"end":204.24,"text":"所以這是不是一種鳥籠罷免、假罷免?"},{"start":208.45,"end":235.358,"text":"是不是假罷免他真的要罷免是真的要罷免可是基本上門檻調得這麼高的時候根本就是做不到不是嗎所以目前我覺得現行的罷免機制不管藍綠過去真的是有成功也有失敗有投票通過罷免也有否決不管藍綠職位高低民意代表都真的是必須戰戰兢兢來接受民意的監督跟檢視"},{"start":236.539,"end":245.128,"text":"這也是我們的選舉罷免精神所在所以如今藍白要沒收了不知道是害怕還是霸道好 以上謝謝好 謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1780,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（18時13分）主席，麻煩請主委。"],["主席：請李主委。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員好。"],["林委員月琴：主委辛苦了，已經傍晚了。"],["李主任委員進勇：謝謝。"],["林委員月琴：針對翁曉玲委員等人提案，選罷法第五十三條要將禁止發布民調時間從選前10天縮短為前3天，關於這點，本席覺得大家可以好好地想一想。為什麼？過去許多區域立委、民意代表常常指控受到假民調的攻擊、假訊息的干擾，導致影響最後選舉的結果。當初設計10天前禁止發布民調，用意也是如此，如果真的有假民調、假訊息，要給候選人一個澄清的機會。","關於翁委員提案縮短為3天，本席不曉得用意為何，難道是磨刀霍霍要幹什麼大事嗎？這個制度設計就是要保護臺灣的民主制度，避免惡意操作，這樣胡亂修法，本席擔心會有無法想像的後果。所以想問主委，從10天前調整成3天前不能發布民調，你認為會有什麼問題？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們看不到把10天縮短為3天的必要性。"],["林委員月琴：過去設定為10天也是有共識的嘛！而且運作已經有一段時間了。"],["李主任委員進勇：是的。"],["林委員月琴：第二個，有關許宇甄委員修法的版本，要將選罷法第九十條修正為同意票數超過被罷免人的得票數，本席更是深感不解。攤開我國選舉的歷程，罷免的投票率普遍低於一般投票，這樣變相加嚴罷免的條件，也導致被民眾戲稱為鳥籠罷免。","此外，目前現行的機制，本席必須坦白說，無論哪個政黨的民意代表都有面臨過選民的挑戰，有罷免成功的，也有罷免失敗的，這也代表目前的制度不分顏色、不分黨派，促使民意代表、縣市首長要戰戰兢兢的，好好地把自己的工作做好。所以主委，對於國民黨的罷免提案，罷免票數需要高於當選票數，您的見解是什麼？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們已經做過很多次說明，最重要的就是它的立論基礎是不存在的，因為兩個數字所產生的基礎完全不一樣，包括投票率、當選人的人數、候選人的人數都不一樣，這些都是一些變項。既然基礎不一樣的話，你就沒有辦法拿它所產出的數字來做比較。"],["林委員月琴：你覺得這是不是一種……"],["李主任委員進勇：很簡單地說，就是你不能用選舉投票時的民意，壓制罷免投票時的民意，因為罷免投票時的民意才是最新的民意，經過至少一年半以後，當初很多民意可能會發生變動，所以它已經不具參考價值了。"],["林委員月琴：所以這是不是一種鳥籠罷免、假罷免？"],["李主任委員進勇：是不是假罷免？它是真的要罷免。"],["林委員月琴：是真的要罷免啊！可是門檻調的這麼高，根本就做不到，不是嗎？所以本席覺得現行的罷免機制，不管藍綠，過去有成功的，也有失敗的，有投票通過罷免的，也有否決的。不管藍綠、職位高低，民意代表真的必須戰戰兢兢接受民意的監督和檢視，這也是選舉罷免的精神所在，所以如今藍白要沒收，不知道是害怕還是霸道。以上，謝謝。"],["李主任委員進勇：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請邱議瑩委員發言。"],["邱委員議瑩：李昆澤。"],["李委員昆澤：剛剛和邱委員互換。"],["主席：請李昆澤委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":126,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-14","speakers":["徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","黃捷","王美惠","張宏陸","高金素梅","李坤城","蔡易餘","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","黃建賓","張智倫","吳琪銘","牛煦庭","吳沛憶","陳菁徽","張嘉郡","翁曉玲","張啓楷","洪孟楷","徐巧芯","林楚茵","吳思瑤","郭國文","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林俊憲","張雅琳","林思銘","黃秀芳","許智傑","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","王義川","莊瑞雄","廖先翔","林宜瑾","林淑芬","賴惠員","傅崐萁","陳素月","吳秉叡","王正旭","徐富癸","邱志偉","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","郭昱晴","林月琴","邱議瑩","李昆澤","葉元之","陳瑩","劉建國","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-05"],"gazette_id":"1140201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於中央選舉委員會及所屬單位預算；二、審查「公職人員\n選舉罷免法」修正草案，計六案：(一)審查委員楊曜等17人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十七\n條及第六十九條條文修正草案」案、(二)審查委員蘇清泉等23人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第六\n十九條條文修正草案」案、(三)審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第五十三條條\n文修正草案」案、(四)審查委員陳冠廷等25人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第五十二條條文修正草\n案」案、(五)審查委員許宇甄等39人擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第七十五條及第九十條條文修正\n草案」案、(六)審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公職人員選舉罷免法第三十二條及第四十三條條文修\n正草案」案","agenda_id":"1140201_00001"}}}