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\"end\": 603.975, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,637 --> 00:00:12,546\n主席好。一樣有請我們洪部長。請洪部長。\n\n2\n00:00:18,768 --> 00:00:41,878\n謝謝邱委員部長好那個我看了一下我們那個勞動部在11月有宣布對親身公務員追封勞動獎章那會爭取因公傷亡的這個撫恤補償但是上個星期全序不確鎖他們還沒收到勞動部的這個文件這是什麼原因\n\n3\n00:00:42,920 --> 00:01:11,100\n當然因為我們現在當然在重啟調查啦齁那我們現在會把重啟調查裡面一些更多的事實的釐清再重啟調查的結果發布以後那該怎麼樣來幫這公務員徵取的部分我們都會盡力根據我們那個公務人員退休這個之前撫恤法第52條齁那自殺身亡的比照病故或意外死亡認定所以你們準備要用什麼樣的理由\n\n4\n00:01:12,461 --> 00:01:29,200\n就是我們會先等這週的調查報告的內容出來以後那後續該幫這一位無信公務員爭取的我們都會盡力的來爭取所以你重啟調查了嗎對不對對現在重啟那你現在找到適合的法條了沒有\n\n5\n00:01:29,986 --> 00:01:49,354\n法條就是就是呃我們會先看就我們我想說我們會來把重啟調查的內容我們先向社會大眾來報告然後因為我不管要爭取什麼東西都還是要基於這一位無性公務員在生前他經歷的什麼他遇到了什麼所以\n\n6\n00:01:50,094 --> 00:02:13,330\n這個調查報告的公布﹖所以你們是要把這個責任就給循序部去認定﹖不是這不是循序部去認定循序部當然是這個輔敘的主管的機關但我們會等調查報告出來以後向社會報告以後我們會拿著這些內容來盡力的幫無性公務員爭取好了因為病故或者是意外死亡\n\n7\n00:02:14,691 --> 00:02:38,816\n或者是因公死亡復續金額差非常多。勞動部既然已經在第一時間說要替這位公務員來爭取我希望你們說到要做到好不好?當然。另外勞保年金你說不應該只有撥補嗎?你也說不會砍年金但是在你的業務報告裡面看不到你到底要做什麼?還有你的期程規劃是什麼?\n\n8\n00:02:41,403 --> 00:02:52,965\n這個跟邱委員說明齁其實現在勞保年金的水位今年應該有機會可以破一兆嘛齁今年可以破一兆那撥補是維持水位的做法之一\n\n9\n00:02:54,349 --> 00:03:13,199\n那也不會只有博古所以這幾這幾年的時間我們在多元的投資裡面其實收益的狀況其實也相當不錯那也包括關於納保或給付相關這些東西做法更精進也都有助整個水會所以我的意思是說我們要做的事情第一個確實現在政策上面並沒有砍給付的規劃這是事實\n\n10\n00:03:15,640 --> 00:03:27,932\n那對於維持基金水位的做法上面我們其實會有各種不同的做法。因為你報告有寫啦,有撥補投資嘛,強化納保還有給付審核。對。那在你上任之前這些都沒有做嗎?\n\n11\n00:03:27,932 --> 00:03:33,838\n也不是沒有做啊,我現在能夠讓基金的水位到兆元之前也有做嘛對不對?\n\n12\n00:03:33,838 --> 00:03:35,519\n也是有的。可是做了之後為什麼還一直虧損?\n\n13\n00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:58,208\n其實現在今年度我們蔡英文總統執政了8年她一直說要匱極意見那到現在也還是只有撥補那現在你上任你又說要匱極意見凝聚共識我們賴總統他選前也說他一定會解決退休金的問題所以這個部分你有什麼想法還是延續傳統的這樣複製貼上就好了\n\n14\n00:04:01,651 --> 00:04:10,587\n跟文說明當然不是會是複製貼上我說撥補這部分我們會持續的辦理可是我們維持基金所謂的方法不會只有撥補\n\n15\n00:04:12,468 --> 00:04:33,878\n包括檢討基金投資的收益,這都我們持續在做,而且這幾年做得很好。包括檢討基金投資的收益,這都我們持續在做,而且這幾年做得很好。勞動部不是一個冰冷的行政單位,要貼近我們勞工的需求。當然。那希望你們能夠提供有效的解決方案。那你看到那個三千多名民眾上街頭,還有工人要絕食100個小時等你給答案,這個部分你有什麼感覺?\n\n16\n00:04:35,667 --> 00:05:03,597\n第一個就是我們當然尊重公民社會裡面的各種聲音的表達我覺得這樣啦然後我們也很重視重點是我想讓我一點時間說我們當然非常重視現在大家提出來的訴求尤其是關於霸凌的問題尤其是大家現在也很多提出關於救安基金運用的問題這都是我上任這兩個禮拜以來非常非常大力也花很多時間我們在全力檢討跟推動的事情\n\n17\n00:05:04,877 --> 00:05:27,962\n他們會走上街頭我這樣看他們就是不接受你們的說法不接受你們的說法那你們一再的回應還是跟之前一樣才會出來走上街頭我想大家都不願意看到這樣子也不願意去做這樣的事情還有包含絕食抗議那愛因斯坦也說過什麼叫做瘋子就是重複同樣的事情\n\n18\n00:05:29,673 --> 00:05:35,017\n公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案\n\n19\n00:05:59,963 --> 00:06:09,729\n二、審查中華民國11屆第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會及重建中心114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算。»:\n\n20\n00:06:10,615 --> 00:06:16,617\n公務及基金預算案關於勞動部主管預算：一、邀請勞動部主管預算：僅公務及基金預算案關於勞動部主管預算．僅\n\n21\n00:06:34,292 --> 00:06:35,293\n我會來跟業務單位來檢討相關這個所以你部長你覺得過去是對的嗎?\n\n22\n00:06:48,314 --> 00:06:49,435\n兩岸的交流互動啊\n\n23\n00:07:15,260 --> 00:07:33,265\n其實我覺得本來它就存在必要性不要因為政治立場而停擺不要為了反對而反對我們有一個正常的這個溝通交流的一個管道我覺得是非常好的我們就是希望各種我覺得我這邊也不針對只針對中國\n\n24\n00:07:35,586 --> 00:07:57,038\n而是各種出國的計劃他能夠對於我們業務推動有什麼幫助我會非常非常看重這一點還有最後就是救安基金裡面你們很多東西寫得非常籠統就像固定資產無形資產這幾個項目你們分了4個地方編總共編了8億3千多萬這是要買什麼這是要做什麼\n\n25\n00:08:05,149 --> 00:08:21,058\n就算基金裡面的媒體事務費就編了兩億一千多萬元等於一個月要花一千八百萬元在這裡面你們就複製貼上這一段相關媒體通路宣傳製作脫波及刊登經費這樣不清不楚的內容你覺得這樣可以過嗎?\n\n26\n00:08:23,803 --> 00:08:48,979\n跟委員報告這個兩億一千七百萬是屬於我們對於各種促進國民就業跟這個外國人拼顧許可管理相關措施的一個相關的一個宣導的一個。不過你們去買東西都不用問價格或是製作影片還是圖檔還是數量多少脫波哪些平台。這個部分都會依照結構程序來處理。反正編下去花完就對了是這樣嗎?\n\n27\n00:08:50,336 --> 00:09:07,444\n那個跟跟文說明還是要給我們的綠媒賺一下呃卻並不是這樣吼呃確實其實在法案署這邊他們有很多政策需要政策跟法令需要讓外界接受到訊息的需求\n\n28\n00:09:08,564 --> 00:09:30,006\n那但是針對這個相關的計畫編列裡面有沒有哪些它適不適當每個項目適不適當這部分當然我們也在我們會檢討好了你說因為你說過嘛就是說你要找外部人員來把關嘛是那你們2016年9月勞動部這個發展署就新聞發新聞稿說就案基金有外部監督機制\n\n29\n00:09:31,147 --> 00:09:56,359\n就按基金符合用途沒有復編促進國民就業為主沒有疑慮這之前就在做了所以我不曉得你們會不會找到同樣的人?關於外部的成員是一件事情但還有一個部分是在機制面我自己認為也要從機制面去面對問題跟檢討問題所以除了人以外還有機制\n\n30\n00:09:57,642 --> 00:10:03,975\n你上次說過一個月要提解決方案,那我希望不要留意形勢,謝謝部長。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8637\t12546\t主席好。一樣有請我們洪部長。請洪部長。\n18768\t41878\t謝謝邱委員部長好那個我看了一下我們那個勞動部在11月有宣布對親身公務員追封勞動獎章那會爭取因公傷亡的這個撫恤補償但是上個星期全序不確鎖他們還沒收到勞動部的這個文件這是什麼原因\n42920\t71100\t當然因為我們現在當然在重啟調查啦齁那我們現在會把重啟調查裡面一些更多的事實的釐清再重啟調查的結果發布以後那該怎麼樣來幫這公務員徵取的部分我們都會盡力根據我們那個公務人員退休這個之前撫恤法第52條齁那自殺身亡的比照病故或意外死亡認定所以你們準備要用什麼樣的理由\n72461\t89200\t就是我們會先等這週的調查報告的內容出來以後那後續該幫這一位無信公務員爭取的我們都會盡力的來爭取所以你重啟調查了嗎對不對對現在重啟那你現在找到適合的法條了沒有\n89986\t109354\t法條就是就是呃我們會先看就我們我想說我們會來把重啟調查的內容我們先向社會大眾來報告然後因為我不管要爭取什麼東西都還是要基於這一位無性公務員在生前他經歷的什麼他遇到了什麼所以\n110094\t133330\t這個調查報告的公布﹖所以你們是要把這個責任就給循序部去認定﹖不是 這不是循序部去認定循序部當然是這個輔敘的主管的機關但我們會等調查報告出來以後向社會報告以後我們會拿著這些內容來盡力的幫無性公務員爭取好了 因為病故或者是意外死亡\n134691\t158816\t或者是因公死亡復續金額差非常多。勞動部既然已經在第一時間說要替這位公務員來爭取我希望你們說到要做到好不好?當然。另外勞保年金你說不應該只有撥補嗎?你也說不會砍年金但是在你的業務報告裡面看不到你到底要做什麼?還有你的期程規劃是什麼?\n161403\t172965\t這個跟邱委員說明齁其實現在勞保年金的水位今年應該有機會可以破一兆嘛齁今年可以破一兆那撥補是維持水位的做法之一\n174349\t193199\t那也不會只有博古所以這幾這幾年的時間我們在多元的投資裡面其實收益的狀況其實也相當不錯那也包括關於納保或給付相關這些東西做法更精進也都有助整個水會所以我的意思是說我們要做的事情第一個確實現在政策上面並沒有砍給付的規劃這是事實\n195640\t207932\t那對於維持基金水位的做法上面我們其實會有各種不同的做法。 因為你報告有寫啦,有撥補投資嘛,強化納保還有給付審核。 對。 那在你上任之前這些都沒有做嗎?\n207932\t213838\t也不是沒有做啊,我現在能夠讓基金的水位到兆元之前也有做嘛對不對?\n213838\t215519\t也是有的。 可是做了之後為什麼還一直虧損?\n217320\t238208\t其實現在今年度我們蔡英文總統執政了8年她一直說要匱極意見那到現在也還是只有撥補那現在你上任你又說要匱極意見凝聚共識我們賴總統他選前也說他一定會解決退休金的問題所以這個部分你有什麼想法還是延續傳統的這樣複製貼上就好了\n241651\t250587\t跟文說明當然不是會是複製貼上我說撥補這部分我們會持續的辦理可是我們維持基金所謂的方法不會只有撥補\n252468\t273878\t包括 檢討基金投資的收益,這都我們持續在做,而且這幾年做得很好。 包括檢討基金投資的收益,這都我們持續在做,而且這幾年做得很好。 勞動部不是一個冰冷的行政單位,要貼近我們勞工的需求。當然。 那希望你們能夠提供有效的解決方案。 那你看到那個三千多名民眾上街頭,還有工人要絕食100個小時等你給答案,這個部分你有什麼感覺?\n275667\t303597\t第一個就是我們當然尊重公民社會裡面的各種聲音的表達我覺得這樣啦然後我們也很重視重點是我想讓我一點時間說我們當然非常重視現在大家提出來的訴求尤其是關於霸凌的問題尤其是大家現在也很多提出關於救安基金運用的問題這都是我上任這兩個禮拜以來非常非常大力也花很多時間我們在全力檢討跟推動的事情\n304877\t327962\t他們會走上街頭我這樣看他們就是不接受你們的說法不接受你們的說法那你們一再的回應還是跟之前一樣才會出來走上街頭我想大家都不願意看到這樣子也不願意去做這樣的事情還有包含絕食抗議那愛因斯坦也說過什麼叫做瘋子就是重複同樣的事情\n329673\t335017\t公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案\n359963\t369729\t二、審查中華民國11屆第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會及重建中心114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算。 »:\n370615\t376617\t公務及基金預算案關於勞動部主管預算：一、邀請勞動部主管預算：僅公務及基金預算案關於勞動部主管預算．僅\n394292\t395293\t我會來跟業務單位來檢討相關這個所以你部長你覺得過去是對的嗎?\n408314\t409435\t兩岸的交流互動啊\n435260\t453265\t其實我覺得本來它就存在必要性不要因為政治立場而停擺不要為了反對而反對我們有一個正常的這個溝通交流的一個管道我覺得是非常好的我們就是希望各種我覺得我這邊也不針對只針對中國\n455586\t477038\t而是各種出國的計劃他能夠對於我們業務推動有什麼幫助我會非常非常看重這一點還有最後就是救安基金裡面你們很多東西寫得非常籠統就像固定資產無形資產這幾個項目你們分了4個地方編總共編了8億3千多萬這是要買什麼這是要做什麼\n485149\t501058\t就算基金裡面的媒體事務費就編了兩億一千多萬元等於一個月要花一千八百萬元在這裡面你們就複製貼上這一段相關媒體通路宣傳製作脫波及刊登經費這樣不清不楚的內容你覺得這樣可以過嗎?\n503803\t528979\t跟委員報告這個兩億一千七百萬是屬於我們對於各種促進國民就業跟這個外國人拼顧許可管理相關措施的一個相關的一個宣導的一個。 不過你們去買東西都不用問價格或是製作影片還是圖檔還是數量多少脫波哪些平台。 這個部分都會依照結構程序來處理。 反正編下去花完就對了是這樣嗎?\n530336\t547444\t那個跟跟文說明還是要給我們的綠媒賺一下呃卻並不是這樣吼呃確實其實在法案署這邊他們有很多政策需要政策跟法令需要讓外界接受到訊息的需求\n548564\t570006\t那但是針對這個相關的計畫編列裡面有沒有哪些它適不適當每個項目適不適當這部分當然我們也在我們會檢討好了你說因為你說過嘛就是說你要找外部人員來把關嘛是那你們2016年9月勞動部這個發展署就新聞發新聞稿說就案基金有外部監督機制\n571147\t596359\t就按基金符合用途沒有復編促進國民就業為主沒有疑慮這之前就在做了所以我不曉得你們會不會找到同樣的人?關於外部的成員是一件事情但還有一個部分是在機制面我自己認為也要從機制面去面對問題跟檢討問題所以除了人以外還有機制\n597642\t603975\t你上次說過一個月要提解決方案,那我希望不要留意形勢,謝謝部長。\n","txt":"主席好。一樣有請我們洪部長。請洪部長。\n謝謝邱委員部長好那個我看了一下我們那個勞動部在11月有宣布對親身公務員追封勞動獎章那會爭取因公傷亡的這個撫恤補償但是上個星期全序不確鎖他們還沒收到勞動部的這個文件這是什麼原因\n當然因為我們現在當然在重啟調查啦齁那我們現在會把重啟調查裡面一些更多的事實的釐清再重啟調查的結果發布以後那該怎麼樣來幫這公務員徵取的部分我們都會盡力根據我們那個公務人員退休這個之前撫恤法第52條齁那自殺身亡的比照病故或意外死亡認定所以你們準備要用什麼樣的理由\n就是我們會先等這週的調查報告的內容出來以後那後續該幫這一位無信公務員爭取的我們都會盡力的來爭取所以你重啟調查了嗎對不對對現在重啟那你現在找到適合的法條了沒有\n法條就是就是呃我們會先看就我們我想說我們會來把重啟調查的內容我們先向社會大眾來報告然後因為我不管要爭取什麼東西都還是要基於這一位無性公務員在生前他經歷的什麼他遇到了什麼所以\n這個調查報告的公布﹖所以你們是要把這個責任就給循序部去認定﹖不是 這不是循序部去認定循序部當然是這個輔敘的主管的機關但我們會等調查報告出來以後向社會報告以後我們會拿著這些內容來盡力的幫無性公務員爭取好了 因為病故或者是意外死亡\n或者是因公死亡復續金額差非常多。勞動部既然已經在第一時間說要替這位公務員來爭取我希望你們說到要做到好不好?當然。另外勞保年金你說不應該只有撥補嗎?你也說不會砍年金但是在你的業務報告裡面看不到你到底要做什麼?還有你的期程規劃是什麼?\n這個跟邱委員說明齁其實現在勞保年金的水位今年應該有機會可以破一兆嘛齁今年可以破一兆那撥補是維持水位的做法之一\n那也不會只有博古所以這幾這幾年的時間我們在多元的投資裡面其實收益的狀況其實也相當不錯那也包括關於納保或給付相關這些東西做法更精進也都有助整個水會所以我的意思是說我們要做的事情第一個確實現在政策上面並沒有砍給付的規劃這是事實\n那對於維持基金水位的做法上面我們其實會有各種不同的做法。 因為你報告有寫啦,有撥補投資嘛,強化納保還有給付審核。 對。 那在你上任之前這些都沒有做嗎?\n也不是沒有做啊,我現在能夠讓基金的水位到兆元之前也有做嘛對不對?\n也是有的。 可是做了之後為什麼還一直虧損?\n其實現在今年度我們蔡英文總統執政了8年她一直說要匱極意見那到現在也還是只有撥補那現在你上任你又說要匱極意見凝聚共識我們賴總統他選前也說他一定會解決退休金的問題所以這個部分你有什麼想法還是延續傳統的這樣複製貼上就好了\n跟文說明當然不是會是複製貼上我說撥補這部分我們會持續的辦理可是我們維持基金所謂的方法不會只有撥補\n包括 檢討基金投資的收益,這都我們持續在做,而且這幾年做得很好。 包括檢討基金投資的收益,這都我們持續在做,而且這幾年做得很好。 勞動部不是一個冰冷的行政單位,要貼近我們勞工的需求。當然。 那希望你們能夠提供有效的解決方案。 那你看到那個三千多名民眾上街頭,還有工人要絕食100個小時等你給答案,這個部分你有什麼感覺?\n第一個就是我們當然尊重公民社會裡面的各種聲音的表達我覺得這樣啦然後我們也很重視重點是我想讓我一點時間說我們當然非常重視現在大家提出來的訴求尤其是關於霸凌的問題尤其是大家現在也很多提出關於救安基金運用的問題這都是我上任這兩個禮拜以來非常非常大力也花很多時間我們在全力檢討跟推動的事情\n他們會走上街頭我這樣看他們就是不接受你們的說法不接受你們的說法那你們一再的回應還是跟之前一樣才會出來走上街頭我想大家都不願意看到這樣子也不願意去做這樣的事情還有包含絕食抗議那愛因斯坦也說過什麼叫做瘋子就是重複同樣的事情\n公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案\n二、審查中華民國11屆第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會及重建中心114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算。 »:\n公務及基金預算案關於勞動部主管預算：一、邀請勞動部主管預算：僅公務及基金預算案關於勞動部主管預算．僅\n我會來跟業務單位來檢討相關這個所以你部長你覺得過去是對的嗎?\n兩岸的交流互動啊\n其實我覺得本來它就存在必要性不要因為政治立場而停擺不要為了反對而反對我們有一個正常的這個溝通交流的一個管道我覺得是非常好的我們就是希望各種我覺得我這邊也不針對只針對中國\n而是各種出國的計劃他能夠對於我們業務推動有什麼幫助我會非常非常看重這一點還有最後就是救安基金裡面你們很多東西寫得非常籠統就像固定資產無形資產這幾個項目你們分了4個地方編總共編了8億3千多萬這是要買什麼這是要做什麼\n就算基金裡面的媒體事務費就編了兩億一千多萬元等於一個月要花一千八百萬元在這裡面你們就複製貼上這一段相關媒體通路宣傳製作脫波及刊登經費這樣不清不楚的內容你覺得這樣可以過嗎?\n跟委員報告這個兩億一千七百萬是屬於我們對於各種促進國民就業跟這個外國人拼顧許可管理相關措施的一個相關的一個宣導的一個。 不過你們去買東西都不用問價格或是製作影片還是圖檔還是數量多少脫波哪些平台。 這個部分都會依照結構程序來處理。 反正編下去花完就對了是這樣嗎?\n那個跟跟文說明還是要給我們的綠媒賺一下呃卻並不是這樣吼呃確實其實在法案署這邊他們有很多政策需要政策跟法令需要讓外界接受到訊息的需求\n那但是針對這個相關的計畫編列裡面有沒有哪些它適不適當每個項目適不適當這部分當然我們也在我們會檢討好了你說因為你說過嘛就是說你要找外部人員來把關嘛是那你們2016年9月勞動部這個發展署就新聞發新聞稿說就案基金有外部監督機制\n就按基金符合用途沒有復編促進國民就業為主沒有疑慮這之前就在做了所以我不曉得你們會不會找到同樣的人?關於外部的成員是一件事情但還有一個部分是在機制面我自己認為也要從機制面去面對問題跟檢討問題所以除了人以外還有機制\n你上次說過一個月要提解決方案,那我希望不要留意形勢,謝謝部長。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.637 --> 00:12.546\n主席好。一樣有請我們洪部長。請洪部長。\n\n00:18.768 --> 00:41.878\n謝謝邱委員部長好那個我看了一下我們那個勞動部在11月有宣布對親身公務員追封勞動獎章那會爭取因公傷亡的這個撫恤補償但是上個星期全序不確鎖他們還沒收到勞動部的這個文件這是什麼原因\n\n00:42.920 --> 01:11.100\n當然因為我們現在當然在重啟調查啦齁那我們現在會把重啟調查裡面一些更多的事實的釐清再重啟調查的結果發布以後那該怎麼樣來幫這公務員徵取的部分我們都會盡力根據我們那個公務人員退休這個之前撫恤法第52條齁那自殺身亡的比照病故或意外死亡認定所以你們準備要用什麼樣的理由\n\n01:12.461 --> 01:29.200\n就是我們會先等這週的調查報告的內容出來以後那後續該幫這一位無信公務員爭取的我們都會盡力的來爭取所以你重啟調查了嗎對不對對現在重啟那你現在找到適合的法條了沒有\n\n01:29.986 --> 01:49.354\n法條就是就是呃我們會先看就我們我想說我們會來把重啟調查的內容我們先向社會大眾來報告然後因為我不管要爭取什麼東西都還是要基於這一位無性公務員在生前他經歷的什麼他遇到了什麼所以\n\n01:50.094 --> 02:13.330\n這個調查報告的公布﹖所以你們是要把這個責任就給循序部去認定﹖不是這不是循序部去認定循序部當然是這個輔敘的主管的機關但我們會等調查報告出來以後向社會報告以後我們會拿著這些內容來盡力的幫無性公務員爭取好了因為病故或者是意外死亡\n\n02:14.691 --> 02:38.816\n或者是因公死亡復續金額差非常多。勞動部既然已經在第一時間說要替這位公務員來爭取我希望你們說到要做到好不好?當然。另外勞保年金你說不應該只有撥補嗎?你也說不會砍年金但是在你的業務報告裡面看不到你到底要做什麼?還有你的期程規劃是什麼?\n\n02:41.403 --> 02:52.965\n這個跟邱委員說明齁其實現在勞保年金的水位今年應該有機會可以破一兆嘛齁今年可以破一兆那撥補是維持水位的做法之一\n\n02:54.349 --> 03:13.199\n那也不會只有博古所以這幾這幾年的時間我們在多元的投資裡面其實收益的狀況其實也相當不錯那也包括關於納保或給付相關這些東西做法更精進也都有助整個水會所以我的意思是說我們要做的事情第一個確實現在政策上面並沒有砍給付的規劃這是事實\n\n03:15.640 --> 03:27.932\n那對於維持基金水位的做法上面我們其實會有各種不同的做法。因為你報告有寫啦,有撥補投資嘛,強化納保還有給付審核。對。那在你上任之前這些都沒有做嗎?\n\n03:27.932 --> 03:33.838\n也不是沒有做啊,我現在能夠讓基金的水位到兆元之前也有做嘛對不對?\n\n03:33.838 --> 03:35.519\n也是有的。可是做了之後為什麼還一直虧損?\n\n03:37.320 --> 03:58.208\n其實現在今年度我們蔡英文總統執政了8年她一直說要匱極意見那到現在也還是只有撥補那現在你上任你又說要匱極意見凝聚共識我們賴總統他選前也說他一定會解決退休金的問題所以這個部分你有什麼想法還是延續傳統的這樣複製貼上就好了\n\n04:01.651 --> 04:10.587\n跟文說明當然不是會是複製貼上我說撥補這部分我們會持續的辦理可是我們維持基金所謂的方法不會只有撥補\n\n04:12.468 --> 04:33.878\n包括檢討基金投資的收益,這都我們持續在做,而且這幾年做得很好。包括檢討基金投資的收益,這都我們持續在做,而且這幾年做得很好。勞動部不是一個冰冷的行政單位,要貼近我們勞工的需求。當然。那希望你們能夠提供有效的解決方案。那你看到那個三千多名民眾上街頭,還有工人要絕食100個小時等你給答案,這個部分你有什麼感覺?\n\n04:35.667 --> 05:03.597\n第一個就是我們當然尊重公民社會裡面的各種聲音的表達我覺得這樣啦然後我們也很重視重點是我想讓我一點時間說我們當然非常重視現在大家提出來的訴求尤其是關於霸凌的問題尤其是大家現在也很多提出關於救安基金運用的問題這都是我上任這兩個禮拜以來非常非常大力也花很多時間我們在全力檢討跟推動的事情\n\n05:04.877 --> 05:27.962\n他們會走上街頭我這樣看他們就是不接受你們的說法不接受你們的說法那你們一再的回應還是跟之前一樣才會出來走上街頭我想大家都不願意看到這樣子也不願意去做這樣的事情還有包含絕食抗議那愛因斯坦也說過什麼叫做瘋子就是重複同樣的事情\n\n05:29.673 --> 05:35.017\n公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案\n\n05:59.963 --> 06:09.729\n二、審查中華民國11屆第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會及重建中心114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算。»:\n\n06:10.615 --> 06:16.617\n公務及基金預算案關於勞動部主管預算：一、邀請勞動部主管預算：僅公務及基金預算案關於勞動部主管預算．僅\n\n06:34.292 --> 06:35.293\n我會來跟業務單位來檢討相關這個所以你部長你覺得過去是對的嗎?\n\n06:48.314 --> 06:49.435\n兩岸的交流互動啊\n\n07:15.260 --> 07:33.265\n其實我覺得本來它就存在必要性不要因為政治立場而停擺不要為了反對而反對我們有一個正常的這個溝通交流的一個管道我覺得是非常好的我們就是希望各種我覺得我這邊也不針對只針對中國\n\n07:35.586 --> 07:57.038\n而是各種出國的計劃他能夠對於我們業務推動有什麼幫助我會非常非常看重這一點還有最後就是救安基金裡面你們很多東西寫得非常籠統就像固定資產無形資產這幾個項目你們分了4個地方編總共編了8億3千多萬這是要買什麼這是要做什麼\n\n08:05.149 --> 08:21.058\n就算基金裡面的媒體事務費就編了兩億一千多萬元等於一個月要花一千八百萬元在這裡面你們就複製貼上這一段相關媒體通路宣傳製作脫波及刊登經費這樣不清不楚的內容你覺得這樣可以過嗎?\n\n08:23.803 --> 08:48.979\n跟委員報告這個兩億一千七百萬是屬於我們對於各種促進國民就業跟這個外國人拼顧許可管理相關措施的一個相關的一個宣導的一個。不過你們去買東西都不用問價格或是製作影片還是圖檔還是數量多少脫波哪些平台。這個部分都會依照結構程序來處理。反正編下去花完就對了是這樣嗎?\n\n08:50.336 --> 09:07.444\n那個跟跟文說明還是要給我們的綠媒賺一下呃卻並不是這樣吼呃確實其實在法案署這邊他們有很多政策需要政策跟法令需要讓外界接受到訊息的需求\n\n09:08.564 --> 09:30.006\n那但是針對這個相關的計畫編列裡面有沒有哪些它適不適當每個項目適不適當這部分當然我們也在我們會檢討好了你說因為你說過嘛就是說你要找外部人員來把關嘛是那你們2016年9月勞動部這個發展署就新聞發新聞稿說就案基金有外部監督機制\n\n09:31.147 --> 09:56.359\n就按基金符合用途沒有復編促進國民就業為主沒有疑慮這之前就在做了所以我不曉得你們會不會找到同樣的人?關於外部的成員是一件事情但還有一個部分是在機制面我自己認為也要從機制面去面對問題跟檢討問題所以除了人以外還有機制\n\n09:57.642 --> 10:03.975\n你上次說過一個月要提解決方案,那我希望不要留意形勢,謝謝部長。\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.637,"end":12.546,"text":"主席好。一樣有請我們洪部長。請洪部長。"},{"start":18.768,"end":41.878,"text":"謝謝邱委員部長好那個我看了一下我們那個勞動部在11月有宣布對親身公務員追封勞動獎章那會爭取因公傷亡的這個撫恤補償但是上個星期全序不確鎖他們還沒收到勞動部的這個文件這是什麼原因"},{"start":42.92,"end":71.1,"text":"當然因為我們現在當然在重啟調查啦齁那我們現在會把重啟調查裡面一些更多的事實的釐清再重啟調查的結果發布以後那該怎麼樣來幫這公務員徵取的部分我們都會盡力根據我們那個公務人員退休這個之前撫恤法第52條齁那自殺身亡的比照病故或意外死亡認定所以你們準備要用什麼樣的理由"},{"start":72.461,"end":89.2,"text":"就是我們會先等這週的調查報告的內容出來以後那後續該幫這一位無信公務員爭取的我們都會盡力的來爭取所以你重啟調查了嗎對不對對現在重啟那你現在找到適合的法條了沒有"},{"start":89.986,"end":109.354,"text":"法條就是就是呃我們會先看就我們我想說我們會來把重啟調查的內容我們先向社會大眾來報告然後因為我不管要爭取什麼東西都還是要基於這一位無性公務員在生前他經歷的什麼他遇到了什麼所以"},{"start":110.094,"end":133.33,"text":"這個調查報告的公布﹖所以你們是要把這個責任就給循序部去認定﹖不是 這不是循序部去認定循序部當然是這個輔敘的主管的機關但我們會等調查報告出來以後向社會報告以後我們會拿著這些內容來盡力的幫無性公務員爭取好了 因為病故或者是意外死亡"},{"start":134.691,"end":158.816,"text":"或者是因公死亡復續金額差非常多。勞動部既然已經在第一時間說要替這位公務員來爭取我希望你們說到要做到好不好?當然。另外勞保年金你說不應該只有撥補嗎?你也說不會砍年金但是在你的業務報告裡面看不到你到底要做什麼?還有你的期程規劃是什麼?"},{"start":161.403,"end":172.965,"text":"這個跟邱委員說明齁其實現在勞保年金的水位今年應該有機會可以破一兆嘛齁今年可以破一兆那撥補是維持水位的做法之一"},{"start":174.349,"end":193.199,"text":"那也不會只有博古所以這幾這幾年的時間我們在多元的投資裡面其實收益的狀況其實也相當不錯那也包括關於納保或給付相關這些東西做法更精進也都有助整個水會所以我的意思是說我們要做的事情第一個確實現在政策上面並沒有砍給付的規劃這是事實"},{"start":195.64,"end":207.932,"text":"那對於維持基金水位的做法上面我們其實會有各種不同的做法。 因為你報告有寫啦,有撥補投資嘛,強化納保還有給付審核。 對。 那在你上任之前這些都沒有做嗎?"},{"start":207.932,"end":213.838,"text":"也不是沒有做啊,我現在能夠讓基金的水位到兆元之前也有做嘛對不對?"},{"start":213.838,"end":215.519,"text":"也是有的。 可是做了之後為什麼還一直虧損?"},{"start":217.32,"end":238.208,"text":"其實現在今年度我們蔡英文總統執政了8年她一直說要匱極意見那到現在也還是只有撥補那現在你上任你又說要匱極意見凝聚共識我們賴總統他選前也說他一定會解決退休金的問題所以這個部分你有什麼想法還是延續傳統的這樣複製貼上就好了"},{"start":241.651,"end":250.587,"text":"跟文說明當然不是會是複製貼上我說撥補這部分我們會持續的辦理可是我們維持基金所謂的方法不會只有撥補"},{"start":252.468,"end":273.878,"text":"包括 檢討基金投資的收益,這都我們持續在做,而且這幾年做得很好。 包括檢討基金投資的收益,這都我們持續在做,而且這幾年做得很好。 勞動部不是一個冰冷的行政單位,要貼近我們勞工的需求。當然。 那希望你們能夠提供有效的解決方案。 那你看到那個三千多名民眾上街頭,還有工人要絕食100個小時等你給答案,這個部分你有什麼感覺?"},{"start":275.667,"end":303.597,"text":"第一個就是我們當然尊重公民社會裡面的各種聲音的表達我覺得這樣啦然後我們也很重視重點是我想讓我一點時間說我們當然非常重視現在大家提出來的訴求尤其是關於霸凌的問題尤其是大家現在也很多提出關於救安基金運用的問題這都是我上任這兩個禮拜以來非常非常大力也花很多時間我們在全力檢討跟推動的事情"},{"start":304.877,"end":327.962,"text":"他們會走上街頭我這樣看他們就是不接受你們的說法不接受你們的說法那你們一再的回應還是跟之前一樣才會出來走上街頭我想大家都不願意看到這樣子也不願意去做這樣的事情還有包含絕食抗議那愛因斯坦也說過什麼叫做瘋子就是重複同樣的事情"},{"start":329.673,"end":335.017,"text":"公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案關於公務及基金預算案"},{"start":359.963,"end":369.729,"text":"二、審查中華民國11屆第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會及重建中心114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算。 »:"},{"start":370.615,"end":376.617,"text":"公務及基金預算案關於勞動部主管預算：一、邀請勞動部主管預算：僅公務及基金預算案關於勞動部主管預算．僅"},{"start":394.292,"end":395.293,"text":"我會來跟業務單位來檢討相關這個所以你部長你覺得過去是對的嗎?"},{"start":408.314,"end":409.435,"text":"兩岸的交流互動啊"},{"start":435.26,"end":453.265,"text":"其實我覺得本來它就存在必要性不要因為政治立場而停擺不要為了反對而反對我們有一個正常的這個溝通交流的一個管道我覺得是非常好的我們就是希望各種我覺得我這邊也不針對只針對中國"},{"start":455.586,"end":477.038,"text":"而是各種出國的計劃他能夠對於我們業務推動有什麼幫助我會非常非常看重這一點還有最後就是救安基金裡面你們很多東西寫得非常籠統就像固定資產無形資產這幾個項目你們分了4個地方編總共編了8億3千多萬這是要買什麼這是要做什麼"},{"start":485.149,"end":501.058,"text":"就算基金裡面的媒體事務費就編了兩億一千多萬元等於一個月要花一千八百萬元在這裡面你們就複製貼上這一段相關媒體通路宣傳製作脫波及刊登經費這樣不清不楚的內容你覺得這樣可以過嗎?"},{"start":503.803,"end":528.979,"text":"跟委員報告這個兩億一千七百萬是屬於我們對於各種促進國民就業跟這個外國人拼顧許可管理相關措施的一個相關的一個宣導的一個。 不過你們去買東西都不用問價格或是製作影片還是圖檔還是數量多少脫波哪些平台。 這個部分都會依照結構程序來處理。 反正編下去花完就對了是這樣嗎?"},{"start":530.336,"end":547.444,"text":"那個跟跟文說明還是要給我們的綠媒賺一下呃卻並不是這樣吼呃確實其實在法案署這邊他們有很多政策需要政策跟法令需要讓外界接受到訊息的需求"},{"start":548.564,"end":570.006,"text":"那但是針對這個相關的計畫編列裡面有沒有哪些它適不適當每個項目適不適當這部分當然我們也在我們會檢討好了你說因為你說過嘛就是說你要找外部人員來把關嘛是那你們2016年9月勞動部這個發展署就新聞發新聞稿說就案基金有外部監督機制"},{"start":571.147,"end":596.359,"text":"就按基金符合用途沒有復編促進國民就業為主沒有疑慮這之前就在做了所以我不曉得你們會不會找到同樣的人?關於外部的成員是一件事情但還有一個部分是在機制面我自己認為也要從機制面去面對問題跟檢討問題所以除了人以外還有機制"},{"start":597.642,"end":603.975,"text":"你上次說過一個月要提解決方案,那我希望不要留意形勢,謝謝部長。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":186,"blocks":[["邱委員鎮軍：（9時55分）主席好，一樣有請洪部長。"],["主席：請洪部長。"],["洪部長申翰：謝謝邱委員。"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長好。我看了一下，勞動部在11月宣布對於輕生公務員追封勞動獎章，會爭取因公傷亡的撫卹補償。但是上個星期銓敘部卻說還沒收到勞動部的文件，是什麼原因？"],["洪部長申翰：當然因為我們現在在重啟調查，我們會把重啟調查裡面更多的事實釐清，在重啟調查的結果發布以後，該怎麼樣幫這個公務員爭取的部分我們都會盡力。"],["邱委員鎮軍：根據公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第五十二條，自殺身亡比照病故或意外死亡予以認定，所以你們準備要用什麼樣的理由？"],["洪部長申翰：我們會先等這週的調查報告內容出來以後，後續該幫這位吳姓公務員爭取的我們都會盡力爭取。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你重啟調查了，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：對，現在在重啟。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那你現在找到適合的法條了沒有？"],["洪部長申翰：法條？"],["邱委員鎮軍：就是……"],["洪部長申翰：我們會先看……"],["邱委員鎮軍：公務人員退休……"],["洪部長申翰：我們會把重啟調查的內容先向社會大眾報告，因為不管要爭取什麼東西，都還是要基於這一位吳姓公務員在生前他經歷了什麼、他遇到了什麼，所以這個調查報告的公布……"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以你們是要把這個責任就給銓敘部去認定還是麼樣？"],["洪部長申翰：不是，這不是銓敘部去認定，銓敘部當然是撫卹的主管機關，但我們會等調查報告出來向社會報告以後，我們拿著這些內容來盡力幫吳姓公務員爭取。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好啦！因為病故或者因公死亡，撫卹金額差非常多。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：差非常多，勞動部既然已經在第一時間說要替這位公務員爭取，我希望你們說到要做到，好不好？"],["洪部長申翰：當然。"],["邱委員鎮軍：另外就勞保年金，你說不應該只有撥補，你也說不會砍年金，但是在你的業務報告裡面看不到你到底要做什麼，還有你的期程規劃是什麼？"],["洪部長申翰：跟邱委員說明，其實現在勞保年金的水位，今年應該有機會可以破1兆，撥補是維持水位的作法之一，也不會只有撥補，這幾年我們在多元的投資裡面其實收益的狀況也相當不錯，包括納保或給付相關的作法更精進，也都有助於整個水位的狀況。所以我的意思是，我們要做的事情，第一個，確實現在政策上面並沒有砍給付的規劃，這是事實，對於維持基金水位的作法上面，我們其實會有各種不同的多元作法。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你的報告有寫，就是撥補投資、強化納保，還有給付審核。"],["洪部長申翰：對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：在你上任之之前，這些都沒有做嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：也不是沒有做，現在能夠讓基金的水位到兆元的……"],["邱委員鎮軍：之前也有做，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：也是有的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：可是做了之後為什麼還一直虧損？"],["洪部長申翰：其實現在，今年度……"],["邱委員鎮軍：蔡英文總統執政了8年，他一直說要彙集意見，而到現在也還是只有撥補。現在你上任了，你又說要彙集意見、凝聚共識；賴總統選前也說，他一定會解決退休金的問題，這個部分你有什麼想法？還是延續傳統，這樣子複製貼上就好？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，當然不會是複製貼上，我說撥補這部分我們會持續辦理，可是我們維持基金水位的方法不會只有撥補，包括檢討基金投資的收益，我們都持續在做，而且這幾年做得很好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我希望勞動部不是一個冰冷的行政單位，要貼近我們勞工的需求。"],["洪部長申翰：當然。"],["邱委員鎮軍：希望你們能夠提供有效的解決方案，你看到三千多名民眾上街頭，還有工人要絕食100個小時，等你給答案，這個部分你有什麼感覺？"],["洪部長申翰：第一個，我們當然尊重公民社會裡面各種聲音的表達，然後我們也很重視……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我覺得這樣啦……"],["洪部長申翰：邱委員，請讓我一點時間說明，我們當然非常重視現在大家提出來的訴求，尤其是關於霸凌的問題，尤其是大家現在也提出很多關於就安基金運用的問題，都是我上任這兩個禮拜以來，非常非常大力，也花很多時間，我們在全力檢討跟推動的事情。"],["邱委員鎮軍：他們會走上街頭，我這樣看，他們就是不接受你們的說法，你們一再的回應還是跟之前一樣，所以他們才會出來走上街頭，我想大家都不願意看到這樣子，也不願意去做這樣的事情，還有包含絕食抗議。愛因斯坦也說過什麼叫做瘋子？就是重複同樣的事情一直在做，還期待會有不同的結果，這個就是愛因斯坦口中的瘋子，我希望勞動部不是他口中的瘋子。"],["洪部長申翰：邱委員，向你報告，我們會拿出不同的作法來，尤其是關於就安基金的檢討，我們一定會……我們沒有辦法只是重複過去的狀況而已。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們期待勞動部啦！期待洪部長上任之後，趕快提出一個新的作法。","另外，我看到你們的預算裡面安排明年9月要到大陸，有嗎？"],["王司長厚誠：跟委員報告，因為我們可能要……沒有說一定要去大陸，而是說……"],["邱委員鎮軍：那你編這預算要幹麻？你編來幹麻？"],["王司長厚誠：出國預算裡面，有可能萬一需要的話……"],["邱委員鎮軍：有可能？但你們民進黨政府不是說去大陸很危險嗎？你覺得你去安全嗎？"],["王司長厚誠：跟委員報告，因為有些國際性的會議會在大陸召開，所以我們是預留的，這是預留的經費。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對嘛！所以部長你覺得呢？你們不怕過去被統戰？"],["洪部長申翰：我會跟業務單位來檢討相關的必要性。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以部長你覺得過去是對的嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我們現在不是說……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我這樣講，我們希望……"],["洪部長申翰：我們不會把任何地方說一定對或錯，重點是這些計畫跟經費的編列，有沒有符合我們達到政策目的的需求，其實檢視的重點是在這個地方，倒不一定去什麼地方就一定怎樣，我不會用這個角度看，重點是對於我們推展業務有沒有幫助。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我就等你這句話，兩岸的交流互動其實我覺得本來它就存在必要性，不要因為政治立場而停擺，不要為了反對而反對，我們有一個正常的溝通交流的管道，我覺得是非常好的。"],["洪部長申翰：我們就是希望各種……我這邊也不只針對中國，而是各種出國的計畫，它能夠對於我們業務推動有什麼幫助，我會非常非常看重這一點。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好。最後就是就安基金裡面，你們很多東西寫得非常籠統，像固定資產、無形資產這幾個項目，你們分了4個地方編，總共編了八億三千多萬，這是要買什麼？這是要做什麼？就安基金裡面的媒體事務費就編了兩億一千多萬元，等於1個月要花1,800萬元，這裡面你們就複製貼上這一段「相關媒體通路宣傳、製作、託播及刊登經費」，這樣不清不楚的內容，你覺得可以過嗎？"],["陳代理署長世昌：跟委員報告，這個2億1,700萬是屬於我們對於各種促進國民就業跟外國人聘僱許可管理相關措施的宣導……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你們去買東西都不用問價格，或是製作影片、圖檔還是數量多少，託播哪些平臺、刊登在哪裡，其實你也還不知道對不對？"],["陳代理署長世昌：這個部分都會依照採購程序來處理。"],["邱委員鎮軍：反正編下去，花完就對了，是這樣嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明……"],["邱委員鎮軍：還是要給我們的綠媒賺一下？"],["洪部長申翰：邱委員，並不是這樣，其實發展署他們有很多政策跟法令需要讓外界接收到訊息的需求，但是針對相關的計畫編列裡面，有沒有哪些適不適當、每個項目適不適當，這部分當然我們也會檢討。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好啦！因為你說過，你要找外部人員來把關嘛！"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：2016年9月勞動部發展署就發新聞稿說，就安基金有外部監督機制，就安基金符合用途，沒有浮編，以促進國民就業為主，沒有疑慮，這之前就在做啦！所以我不曉得你們會不會找到同樣的人？"],["洪部長申翰：關於外部的成員是一件事情，但還有一個部分是在機制面，我自己認為也要從機制面去面對問題跟檢討問題，所以除了人以外，還有機制。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你上次說過1個月要提解決方案嘛！對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，我希望不要流於形式啦！好不好？謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝邱委員的發言，謝謝部長。下一位請廖偉翔委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":196,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-13","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","王育敏","涂權吉","盧縣一","陳瑩","蘇清泉","陳培瑜","林淑芬","賴士葆","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","洪孟楷","羅廷瑋","麥玉珍","楊曜","王正旭","黃國昌","張啓楷","劉建國","翁曉玲","王鴻薇","張雅琳"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-09"],"gazette_id":"1140403","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140403_00002","1140403_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案\n關於勞動部主管預算（公務及基金預算）；三、審查勞動部函送財團法人職業災害預防及重建中心\n114年度預算書案【所列預算案，僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1140403_00001"}}}