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{\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 252.689, \"end\": 254.53, \"text\": \"我們當然有一個方向上的期待。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 252.689, \"end\": 253.069, \"score\": 0.776}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 253.069, \"end\": 253.149, \"score\": 0.444}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 253.149, \"end\": 253.289, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 253.289, \"end\": 253.509, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 253.509, \"end\": 253.689, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 253.689, \"end\": 253.889, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 253.889, \"end\": 254.049, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 254.049, \"end\": 254.249, \"score\": 0.762}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 254.249, \"end\": 254.51, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"待\", \"start\": 254.51, \"end\": 254.53, \"score\": 0.219}, {\"word\": \"。\"}]}, {\"start\": 255.629, \"end\": 274.616, \"text\": 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\"來\"}, {\"word\": \"爭\"}, {\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 274.155, \"end\": 274.175, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 274.175, \"end\": 274.195, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 274.195, \"end\": 274.315, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 274.315, \"end\": 274.335, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 274.335, \"end\": 274.416, \"score\": 0.661}, {\"word\": \"贊\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 274.416, \"end\": 274.516, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"恢\", \"start\": 274.516, \"end\": 274.536, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"復\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 274.536, \"end\": 274.576, \"score\": 0.153}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 274.576, \"end\": 274.596, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"假\", \"start\": 274.596, \"end\": 274.616, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 279.318, \"end\": 298.011, \"text\": \"我們會把相關勞工的聲音給反映出來在這樣子模擬兩可下去我覺得你當不了勞動部的部長太軟弱我必須這樣講沒有立場不夠堅定你要如何去捍衛勞工的權益這個是我請洪部長你要好好去思考的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 279.318, \"end\": 279.838, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 279.838, \"end\": 279.999, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 279.999, \"end\": 280.599, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 280.599, \"end\": 280.759, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 280.759, \"end\": 281.079, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"聲\"}, {\"word\": \"音\", \"start\": 281.079, \"end\": 281.439, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 281.439, \"end\": 281.56, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"映\", \"start\": 281.56, \"end\": 281.78, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 281.78, \"end\": 282.5, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 282.5, \"end\": 283.061, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 283.061, \"end\": 283.541, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"模\", \"start\": 283.541, \"end\": 284.101, \"score\": 0.769}, {\"word\": \"擬\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 284.101, \"end\": 284.281, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 284.281, \"end\": 284.622, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 284.622, \"end\": 284.862, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 284.862, \"end\": 285.022, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 285.022, \"end\": 285.182, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 285.182, \"end\": 285.522, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 285.522, \"end\": 285.602, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 285.602, \"end\": 286.083, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 286.083, \"end\": 286.223, \"score\": 0.741}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 286.223, 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\"這\"}, {\"word\": \"般\", \"start\": 705.235, \"end\": 705.475, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 705.475, \"end\": 705.635, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 705.635, \"end\": 705.895, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 705.895, \"end\": 705.915, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,974 --> 00:00:11,718\n謝謝主席。我們是不是有請洪部長?有請洪部長。謝謝黃委員。洪部長,你知不知道此時此刻勞動部前面有勞團、有勞工朋友在那邊絕食抗議?知道。知道齁。那你知道他們的訴求是什麼嗎?\n\n2\n00:00:30,921 --> 00:00:40,078\n有針對救安基金的部分然後也有針對希望在一些跟勞動政策有關的一些議題對\n\n3\n00:00:42,208 --> 00:00:58,557\n講得模糊齁其中一個就是跟過勞的問題有關喔勞工的訴求很清楚就是要恢復國定的7天假而且也希望提高加班費的費率我就問洪部長請問你對這兩個議題你是支持還是反對\n\n4\n00:01:04,703 --> 00:01:21,577\n跟網友說明第一個我當然是支持要降低勞工在公事上面的負擔的我當然是支持的你直接回答因為本席也發現你的回答都是有點避重就輕然後沒有針對直接的問題具體明白的回覆勞團也發現你這個問題對於國定假日的議題\n\n5\n00:01:26,226 --> 00:01:48,512\n你贊不贊成恢復國定的7天假?贊成或反對就這樣就好。跟王美說明對於國定假日的議題確實這部分現在相關的法規的權責在內政部我們會把勞工的聲音要如實勞動部要先有立場你到底支不支持恢復國定的7天假?\n\n6\n00:01:49,778 --> 00:02:04,730\n你回答不出來,不敢回答。我不是不敢回答。那你就回答,支持還是反對?這個我不是不敢回答。我現在說的事情是我們當然希望降低工時的負擔。在各種做法上面我們都可以看哪些部分能夠做。部長你就是要來要去。但是針對我...\n\n7\n00:02:06,929 --> 00:02:27,149\n你不敢直接回答問題這個也是勞團已經發現你的問題喔就是你都沒有正面回答那陶總他就批評你們說在砍國定假日的時候勞動部當時是站上第一線支持的現在增加國定假日結果勞動部說跟我沒有關係你從剛剛的回答到現在你都是說我沒有說跟我沒有關係\n\n8\n00:02:29,571 --> 00:02:56,628\n那你贊成還是反對?總要有個立場吧!黃部長!勇敢一點!我要向你說明這件事情涉及到跨部會的權責所以你不敢表達你的立場我們當然會把勞工的期待跟訴求在跨部會討論的時候表達出來我的問題是作為一個勞工的大家長勞動部部長到底是贊成恢復國定期限價還是反對?\n\n9\n00:02:58,530 --> 00:03:19,886\n我們會把現在勞工朋友的聲音跟期待反映...部長你就是不敢回答問題這個就是我看到現在如果我們換了一個紅部長上來標榜說他是跟基層勞工比較接近的會為弱勢發聲的結果在關鍵議題上面不敢表態第二個問題提高加班費的費率你贊成還是反對我覺得我們當然希望能夠盡力的爭取所以是贊成\n\n10\n00:03:28,537 --> 00:03:50,695\n為什麼贊成反對都回答不出來紅部長你知道你這樣子會讓勞工朋友多失望嗎你標榜要跟勞工朋友站在一起請聽勞工的心聲你站上了這個位置之後你可以決定你可以拍板你到底支不支持當你支持的時候就是帶領全國的勞工在往前進往前推結果你現在在這樣的一個未還委員會回答模擬兩可不敢表達你的立場\n\n11\n00:03:55,679 --> 00:04:08,786\n你真的是跟勞工站在一起嗎?還是你現在必須聽命行政院,必須聽命經濟部跟內政部,只要各部會部長他們反對,作為勞動部部長你只好跟著他們的步驟?\n\n12\n00:04:08,786 --> 00:04:12,689\n這並不是聽命。第一個這並不是聽命。那你要我主張?\n\n13\n00:04:12,689 --> 00:04:14,530\n我們當然有一個方向上的期待。\n\n14\n00:04:15,629 --> 00:04:34,616\n但是這裡面確實這裡面如果它涉及到跨部會的權責的話我們當然是盡力來反映。部長、紅部長所有的協商都是你要先有立場你要有主張你才可以去跟人家談判。所以我們要把這樣的聲音給表達出來盡力的來爭取。我可以說你贊成恢復國定7天假嗎?\n\n15\n00:04:39,318 --> 00:04:58,011\n我們會把相關勞工的聲音給反映出來在這樣子模擬兩可下去我覺得你當不了勞動部的部長太軟弱我必須這樣講沒有立場不夠堅定你要如何去捍衛勞工的權益這個是我請洪部長你要好好去思考的\n\n16\n00:04:58,391 --> 00:05:02,914\n不是推給其他部會啊,部會大家都一樣大,所以你要有主張,當你站穩了你的立場跟主張之後,你才可以去跟其他的部會來談判來溝通,人家一問勞動部部長主張是什麼?\n\n17\n00:05:14,801 --> 00:05:33,808\n沒有主張。沒有主張當然就順著內政部部長的意見啊。這個時候要講的第一件事情因為我們現在勞工工時過長如果你上任一樣提不出解方你不敢站在勞工的立場勞工已經提出他們的解方就是這樣子結果你不敢去支持的話我想我們臺灣的勞動力的總工時沒有最高還會更高\n\n18\n00:05:39,710 --> 00:05:44,874\n你看到從114年到112年都還是在繼續成長第二件事情我要問你的關鍵態度勞保終究是會破產的問題不改革終究是會破產結果你上個禮拜你呼應了這個上一任的何佩珊的這個論點說撥補就是改革好你贊成你說你贊成撥補就是改革那我就問洪部長\n\n19\n00:06:09,332 --> 00:06:11,095\n撥補就是改革請問你要撥補多少錢才不會讓勞保破產\n\n20\n00:06:14,417 --> 00:06:16,318\n那是不是你支持讓最終責任入法?\n\n21\n00:06:43,953 --> 00:06:57,567\n不管入法或不入法政府都會負最終的責任。你又是不敢講你真正的想法。既然是這樣子。現在的政策就是政府會來負最終支付的責任。因為現在的政府會換人會下台。我們現在的政策就是這樣。就必須入法全國勞工才有保障。那你支不支持最終責任入法?\n\n22\n00:07:08,737 --> 00:07:20,884\n公務及基金預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主\n\n23\n00:07:33,091 --> 00:07:39,853\n濫用救安基金然後7支影片花200萬結果你的觀看次數慘不忍睹啊部長你有去看過這7支影片嗎?他的觀看次數每一支要花將近30萬結果他的觀看次數只有幾百人每一支都只有幾百人你們做事情是這樣子做的嗎?這樣子是有效益嗎?\n\n24\n00:07:59,707 --> 00:08:14,936\n就案基金好好花?隨便亂花?這就是你們做事情的態度嗎?你們有檢討嗎?公務員報告這幾支片子包括一個正片的部分連同7支影片大概有7萬多次的目前的瀏覽率。\n\n25\n00:08:16,061 --> 00:08:35,392\n是喔是從哪邊看的?它的證片包括那個所謂的音樂會的那個部分還有加上七支影片的部分那七支影片的部分它你要把所有的資訊都給我我要好好的來解釋你們你們這個到底是怎麼樣就是濫用救安基金我們再把相關的資訊給王委員對這個標案裡面我就讓部長看\n\n26\n00:08:39,835 --> 00:09:04,266\n你這整個標案委外的這個金額是每一年都漲那你這個宣傳採購費用呢從106年開始到113年大家來看一下得標廠商得標廠商從108年開始就只有三家媒體通通都不會變動三立、民視、年代\n\n27\n00:09:06,505 --> 00:09:21,424\n從108年、109年、110年、111、112、113年全部無論其他有哪一些別家的媒體來投標一定是三立民事年代得標。\n\n28\n00:09:23,144 --> 00:09:44,397\n哇好巧喔這個是不是要招標我們整個這個勞動部的宣傳採購費用還要有特定的政治立場這個如果你顏色不對的是中性的或者是偏藍色的或是你其他標榜你專業通通都沒有用啦就只有這三家會得標啦跟委員報告我們都是透過公開的採購程序\n\n29\n00:09:46,038 --> 00:09:56,183\n好你公開我現在就要求這幾年來這個標案評審是誰照標的過程請如實的揭露我要所有的社會大眾來評評理我們要讓那一些沒有得標的廠商大家心服口服到底你這連續幾年來是不是用的是同樣的評審然後那個評審的規則然後所有通通都應該揭露部長你贊成嗎我們通通都把它全面檢討如實揭露出來\n\n30\n00:10:15,762 --> 00:10:44,628\n跟委員報告,我們的評審人是外聘文,多元聘文。我要部長回答。我覺得該揭露就揭露啊。好,全部通通都揭露出來,攤在陽光下。一方面是我們看到這個救安基金被濫用,一方面呢,又是得標廠商,固定就是幾家媒體。這當中到底有什麼樣的貓膩?而且召集人、主持人是誰?這個所有的通通攤在陽光下。你們多久可以整理出來?\n\n31\n00:10:46,141 --> 00:11:08,671\n可以提供給委員會?一個月。好,一個月我要求這些資料通通都要提供。部長我就問你一件事情今天這些勞團在你勞動部前面就是在抗議其中一項就是救安基金要求你全面檢討要求你如實揭露請問你做得到嗎?這是現在我們正在做的事情\n\n32\n00:11:09,022 --> 00:11:12,723\n正在做的事情好那就從這個標案開始這個媒體採購案開始我們要讓外界看到為什麼可以這樣子就是同樣都是同樣的媒體其他家來投標通通都不會得標這到底是為什麼我們要好好的揭露出來讓全國的民眾可以看而立法院也應該要強化監督救安基金的濫用已經讓國人沒有辦法忍受了所以接下來的預算審查\n\n33\n00:11:38,129 --> 00:11:45,915\n大家都應該要全力的來把關。我們禁止這樣的一個救安基金被濫用到如此這般的程度。謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7974\t11718\t謝謝主席。我們是不是有請洪部長?有請洪部長。謝謝黃委員。洪部長,你知不知道此時此刻勞動部前面有勞團、有勞工朋友在那邊絕食抗議?知道。知道齁。那你知道他們的訴求是什麼嗎?\n30921\t40078\t有針對救安基金的部分然後也有針對希望在一些跟勞動政策有關的一些議題對\n42208\t58557\t講得模糊齁其中一個就是跟過勞的問題有關喔勞工的訴求很清楚就是要恢復國定的7天假而且也希望提高加班費的費率我就問洪部長請問你對這兩個議題你是支持還是反對\n64703\t81577\t跟網友說明第一個我當然是支持要降低勞工在公事上面的負擔的我當然是支持的你直接回答因為本席也發現你的回答都是有點避重就輕然後沒有針對直接的問題具體明白的回覆勞團也發現你這個問題對於國定假日的議題\n86226\t108512\t你贊不贊成恢復國定的7天假?贊成或反對就這樣就好。跟王美說明對於國定假日的議題確實這部分現在相關的法規的權責在內政部我們會把勞工的聲音要如實勞動部要先有立場你到底支不支持恢復國定的7天假?\n109778\t124730\t你回答不出來,不敢回答。我不是不敢回答。那你就回答,支持還是反對?這個我不是不敢回答。我現在說的事情是我們當然希望降低工時的負擔。在各種做法上面我們都可以看哪些部分能夠做。部長你就是要來要去。但是針對我...\n126929\t147149\t你不敢直接回答問題這個也是勞團已經發現你的問題喔就是你都沒有正面回答那陶總他就批評你們說在砍國定假日的時候勞動部當時是站上第一線支持的現在增加國定假日結果勞動部說跟我沒有關係你從剛剛的回答到現在你都是說我沒有說跟我沒有關係\n149571\t176628\t那你贊成還是反對?總要有個立場吧!黃部長!勇敢一點!我要向你說明這件事情涉及到跨部會的權責所以你不敢表達你的立場我們當然會把勞工的期待跟訴求在跨部會討論的時候表達出來我的問題是作為一個勞工的大家長勞動部部長到底是贊成恢復國定期限價還是反對?\n178530\t199886\t我們會把現在勞工朋友的聲音跟期待反映...部長你就是不敢回答問題這個就是我看到現在如果我們換了一個紅部長上來標榜說他是跟基層勞工比較接近的會為弱勢發聲的結果在關鍵議題上面不敢表態第二個問題提高加班費的費率你贊成還是反對我覺得我們當然希望能夠盡力的爭取所以是贊成\n208537\t230695\t為什麼贊成反對都回答不出來紅部長你知道你這樣子會讓勞工朋友多失望嗎你標榜要跟勞工朋友站在一起請聽勞工的心聲你站上了這個位置之後你可以決定你可以拍板你到底支不支持當你支持的時候就是帶領全國的勞工在往前進往前推結果你現在在這樣的一個未還委員會回答模擬兩可不敢表達你的立場\n235679\t248786\t你真的是跟勞工站在一起嗎?還是你現在必須聽命行政院,必須聽命經濟部跟內政部,只要各部會部長他們反對,作為勞動部部長你只好跟著他們的步驟?\n248786\t252689\t這並不是聽命。第一個這並不是聽命。 那你要我主張?\n252689\t254530\t我們當然有一個方向上的期待。\n255629\t274616\t但是這裡面確實這裡面如果它涉及到跨部會的權責的話我們當然是盡力來反映。部長、紅部長所有的協商都是你要先有立場你要有主張你才可以去跟人家談判。所以我們要把這樣的聲音給表達出來盡力的來爭取。我可以說你贊成恢復國定7天假嗎?\n279318\t298011\t我們會把相關勞工的聲音給反映出來在這樣子模擬兩可下去我覺得你當不了勞動部的部長太軟弱我必須這樣講沒有立場不夠堅定你要如何去捍衛勞工的權益這個是我請洪部長你要好好去思考的\n298391\t302914\t不是推給其他部會啊,部會大家都一樣大,所以你要有主張,當你站穩了你的立場跟主張之後,你才可以去跟其他的部會來談判來溝通,人家一問勞動部部長主張是什麼?\n314801\t333808\t沒有主張。 沒有主張當然就順著內政部部長的意見啊。 這個時候要講的第一件事情因為我們現在勞工工時過長如果你上任一樣提不出解方你不敢站在勞工的立場勞工已經提出他們的解方就是這樣子結果你不敢去支持的話我想我們臺灣的勞動力的總工時沒有最高還會更高\n339710\t344874\t你看到從114年到112年都還是在繼續成長第二件事情我要問你的關鍵態度勞保終究是會破產的問題不改革終究是會破產結果你上個禮拜你呼應了這個上一任的何佩珊的這個論點說撥補就是改革好你贊成你說你贊成撥補就是改革那我就問洪部長\n369332\t371095\t撥補就是改革請問你要撥補多少錢才不會讓勞保破產\n374417\t376318\t那是不是你支持讓最終責任入法?\n403953\t417567\t不管入法或不入法政府都會負最終的責任。你又是不敢講你真正的想法。既然是這樣子。現在的政策就是政府會來負最終支付的責任。因為現在的政府會換人會下台。我們現在的政策就是這樣。就必須入法全國勞工才有保障。那你支不支持最終責任入法?\n428737\t440884\t公務及基金預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主\n453091\t459853\t濫用救安基金然後7支影片花200萬結果你的觀看次數慘不忍睹啊部長你有去看過這7支影片嗎?他的觀看次數每一支要花將近30萬結果他的觀看次數只有幾百人每一支都只有幾百人你們做事情是這樣子做的嗎?這樣子是有效益嗎?\n479707\t494936\t就案基金好好花?隨便亂花?這就是你們做事情的態度嗎?你們有檢討嗎?公務員報告這幾支片子包括一個正片的部分連同7支影片大概有7萬多次的目前的瀏覽率。\n496061\t515392\t是喔 是從哪邊看的?它的證片包括那個所謂的音樂會的那個部分還有加上七支影片的部分那七支影片的部分它你要把所有的資訊都給我我要好好的來解釋你們你們這個到底是怎麼樣就是濫用救安基金我們再把相關的資訊給王委員對 這個標案裡面我就讓部長看\n519835\t544266\t你這整個標案委外的這個金額是每一年都漲那你這個宣傳採購費用呢從106年開始到113年大家來看一下得標廠商得標廠商從108年開始就只有三家媒體通通都不會變動三立、民視、年代\n546505\t561424\t從108年、109年、110年、111、112、113年全部無論其他有哪一些別家的媒體來投標一定是三立民事年代得標。\n563144\t584397\t哇 好巧喔 這個是不是要招標我們整個這個勞動部的宣傳採購費用還要有特定的政治立場這個如果你顏色不對的是中性的或者是偏藍色的或是你其他標榜你專業通通都沒有用啦就只有這三家會得標啦跟委員報告我們都是透過公開的採購程序\n586038\t596183\t好你公開我現在就要求這幾年來這個標案評審是誰照標的過程請如實的揭露我要所有的社會大眾來評評理我們要讓那一些沒有得標的廠商大家心服口服到底你這連續幾年來是不是用的是同樣的評審然後那個評審的規則然後所有通通都應該揭露部長你贊成嗎我們通通都把它全面檢討如實揭露出來\n615762\t644628\t跟委員報告,我們的評審人是外聘文,多元聘文。我要部長回答。我覺得該揭露就揭露啊。好,全部通通都揭露出來,攤在陽光下。一方面是我們看到這個救安基金被濫用,一方面呢,又是得標廠商,固定就是幾家媒體。這當中到底有什麼樣的貓膩?而且召集人、主持人是誰?這個所有的通通攤在陽光下。你們多久可以整理出來?\n646141\t668671\t可以提供給委員會?一個月。好,一個月我要求這些資料通通都要提供。部長我就問你一件事情今天這些勞團在你勞動部前面就是在抗議其中一項就是救安基金要求你全面檢討要求你如實揭露請問你做得到嗎?這是現在我們正在做的事情\n669022\t672723\t正在做的事情好那就從這個標案開始這個媒體採購案開始我們要讓外界看到為什麼可以這樣子就是同樣都是同樣的媒體其他家來投標通通都不會得標這到底是為什麼我們要好好的揭露出來讓全國的民眾可以看而立法院也應該要強化監督救安基金的濫用已經讓國人沒有辦法忍受了所以接下來的預算審查\n698129\t705915\t大家都應該要全力的來把關。我們禁止這樣的一個救安基金被濫用到如此這般的程度。謝謝。\n","txt":"謝謝主席。我們是不是有請洪部長?有請洪部長。謝謝黃委員。洪部長,你知不知道此時此刻勞動部前面有勞團、有勞工朋友在那邊絕食抗議?知道。知道齁。那你知道他們的訴求是什麼嗎?\n有針對救安基金的部分然後也有針對希望在一些跟勞動政策有關的一些議題對\n講得模糊齁其中一個就是跟過勞的問題有關喔勞工的訴求很清楚就是要恢復國定的7天假而且也希望提高加班費的費率我就問洪部長請問你對這兩個議題你是支持還是反對\n跟網友說明第一個我當然是支持要降低勞工在公事上面的負擔的我當然是支持的你直接回答因為本席也發現你的回答都是有點避重就輕然後沒有針對直接的問題具體明白的回覆勞團也發現你這個問題對於國定假日的議題\n你贊不贊成恢復國定的7天假?贊成或反對就這樣就好。跟王美說明對於國定假日的議題確實這部分現在相關的法規的權責在內政部我們會把勞工的聲音要如實勞動部要先有立場你到底支不支持恢復國定的7天假?\n你回答不出來,不敢回答。我不是不敢回答。那你就回答,支持還是反對?這個我不是不敢回答。我現在說的事情是我們當然希望降低工時的負擔。在各種做法上面我們都可以看哪些部分能夠做。部長你就是要來要去。但是針對我...\n你不敢直接回答問題這個也是勞團已經發現你的問題喔就是你都沒有正面回答那陶總他就批評你們說在砍國定假日的時候勞動部當時是站上第一線支持的現在增加國定假日結果勞動部說跟我沒有關係你從剛剛的回答到現在你都是說我沒有說跟我沒有關係\n那你贊成還是反對?總要有個立場吧!黃部長!勇敢一點!我要向你說明這件事情涉及到跨部會的權責所以你不敢表達你的立場我們當然會把勞工的期待跟訴求在跨部會討論的時候表達出來我的問題是作為一個勞工的大家長勞動部部長到底是贊成恢復國定期限價還是反對?\n我們會把現在勞工朋友的聲音跟期待反映...部長你就是不敢回答問題這個就是我看到現在如果我們換了一個紅部長上來標榜說他是跟基層勞工比較接近的會為弱勢發聲的結果在關鍵議題上面不敢表態第二個問題提高加班費的費率你贊成還是反對我覺得我們當然希望能夠盡力的爭取所以是贊成\n為什麼贊成反對都回答不出來紅部長你知道你這樣子會讓勞工朋友多失望嗎你標榜要跟勞工朋友站在一起請聽勞工的心聲你站上了這個位置之後你可以決定你可以拍板你到底支不支持當你支持的時候就是帶領全國的勞工在往前進往前推結果你現在在這樣的一個未還委員會回答模擬兩可不敢表達你的立場\n你真的是跟勞工站在一起嗎?還是你現在必須聽命行政院,必須聽命經濟部跟內政部,只要各部會部長他們反對,作為勞動部部長你只好跟著他們的步驟?\n這並不是聽命。第一個這並不是聽命。 那你要我主張?\n我們當然有一個方向上的期待。\n但是這裡面確實這裡面如果它涉及到跨部會的權責的話我們當然是盡力來反映。部長、紅部長所有的協商都是你要先有立場你要有主張你才可以去跟人家談判。所以我們要把這樣的聲音給表達出來盡力的來爭取。我可以說你贊成恢復國定7天假嗎?\n我們會把相關勞工的聲音給反映出來在這樣子模擬兩可下去我覺得你當不了勞動部的部長太軟弱我必須這樣講沒有立場不夠堅定你要如何去捍衛勞工的權益這個是我請洪部長你要好好去思考的\n不是推給其他部會啊,部會大家都一樣大,所以你要有主張,當你站穩了你的立場跟主張之後,你才可以去跟其他的部會來談判來溝通,人家一問勞動部部長主張是什麼?\n沒有主張。 沒有主張當然就順著內政部部長的意見啊。 這個時候要講的第一件事情因為我們現在勞工工時過長如果你上任一樣提不出解方你不敢站在勞工的立場勞工已經提出他們的解方就是這樣子結果你不敢去支持的話我想我們臺灣的勞動力的總工時沒有最高還會更高\n你看到從114年到112年都還是在繼續成長第二件事情我要問你的關鍵態度勞保終究是會破產的問題不改革終究是會破產結果你上個禮拜你呼應了這個上一任的何佩珊的這個論點說撥補就是改革好你贊成你說你贊成撥補就是改革那我就問洪部長\n撥補就是改革請問你要撥補多少錢才不會讓勞保破產\n那是不是你支持讓最終責任入法?\n不管入法或不入法政府都會負最終的責任。你又是不敢講你真正的想法。既然是這樣子。現在的政策就是政府會來負最終支付的責任。因為現在的政府會換人會下台。我們現在的政策就是這樣。就必須入法全國勞工才有保障。那你支不支持最終責任入法?\n公務及基金預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主\n濫用救安基金然後7支影片花200萬結果你的觀看次數慘不忍睹啊部長你有去看過這7支影片嗎?他的觀看次數每一支要花將近30萬結果他的觀看次數只有幾百人每一支都只有幾百人你們做事情是這樣子做的嗎?這樣子是有效益嗎?\n就案基金好好花?隨便亂花?這就是你們做事情的態度嗎?你們有檢討嗎?公務員報告這幾支片子包括一個正片的部分連同7支影片大概有7萬多次的目前的瀏覽率。\n是喔 是從哪邊看的?它的證片包括那個所謂的音樂會的那個部分還有加上七支影片的部分那七支影片的部分它你要把所有的資訊都給我我要好好的來解釋你們你們這個到底是怎麼樣就是濫用救安基金我們再把相關的資訊給王委員對 這個標案裡面我就讓部長看\n你這整個標案委外的這個金額是每一年都漲那你這個宣傳採購費用呢從106年開始到113年大家來看一下得標廠商得標廠商從108年開始就只有三家媒體通通都不會變動三立、民視、年代\n從108年、109年、110年、111、112、113年全部無論其他有哪一些別家的媒體來投標一定是三立民事年代得標。\n哇 好巧喔 這個是不是要招標我們整個這個勞動部的宣傳採購費用還要有特定的政治立場這個如果你顏色不對的是中性的或者是偏藍色的或是你其他標榜你專業通通都沒有用啦就只有這三家會得標啦跟委員報告我們都是透過公開的採購程序\n好你公開我現在就要求這幾年來這個標案評審是誰照標的過程請如實的揭露我要所有的社會大眾來評評理我們要讓那一些沒有得標的廠商大家心服口服到底你這連續幾年來是不是用的是同樣的評審然後那個評審的規則然後所有通通都應該揭露部長你贊成嗎我們通通都把它全面檢討如實揭露出來\n跟委員報告,我們的評審人是外聘文,多元聘文。我要部長回答。我覺得該揭露就揭露啊。好,全部通通都揭露出來,攤在陽光下。一方面是我們看到這個救安基金被濫用,一方面呢,又是得標廠商,固定就是幾家媒體。這當中到底有什麼樣的貓膩?而且召集人、主持人是誰?這個所有的通通攤在陽光下。你們多久可以整理出來?\n可以提供給委員會?一個月。好,一個月我要求這些資料通通都要提供。部長我就問你一件事情今天這些勞團在你勞動部前面就是在抗議其中一項就是救安基金要求你全面檢討要求你如實揭露請問你做得到嗎?這是現在我們正在做的事情\n正在做的事情好那就從這個標案開始這個媒體採購案開始我們要讓外界看到為什麼可以這樣子就是同樣都是同樣的媒體其他家來投標通通都不會得標這到底是為什麼我們要好好的揭露出來讓全國的民眾可以看而立法院也應該要強化監督救安基金的濫用已經讓國人沒有辦法忍受了所以接下來的預算審查\n大家都應該要全力的來把關。我們禁止這樣的一個救安基金被濫用到如此這般的程度。謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.974 --> 00:11.718\n謝謝主席。我們是不是有請洪部長?有請洪部長。謝謝黃委員。洪部長,你知不知道此時此刻勞動部前面有勞團、有勞工朋友在那邊絕食抗議?知道。知道齁。那你知道他們的訴求是什麼嗎?\n\n00:30.921 --> 00:40.078\n有針對救安基金的部分然後也有針對希望在一些跟勞動政策有關的一些議題對\n\n00:42.208 --> 00:58.557\n講得模糊齁其中一個就是跟過勞的問題有關喔勞工的訴求很清楚就是要恢復國定的7天假而且也希望提高加班費的費率我就問洪部長請問你對這兩個議題你是支持還是反對\n\n01:04.703 --> 01:21.577\n跟網友說明第一個我當然是支持要降低勞工在公事上面的負擔的我當然是支持的你直接回答因為本席也發現你的回答都是有點避重就輕然後沒有針對直接的問題具體明白的回覆勞團也發現你這個問題對於國定假日的議題\n\n01:26.226 --> 01:48.512\n你贊不贊成恢復國定的7天假?贊成或反對就這樣就好。跟王美說明對於國定假日的議題確實這部分現在相關的法規的權責在內政部我們會把勞工的聲音要如實勞動部要先有立場你到底支不支持恢復國定的7天假?\n\n01:49.778 --> 02:04.730\n你回答不出來,不敢回答。我不是不敢回答。那你就回答,支持還是反對?這個我不是不敢回答。我現在說的事情是我們當然希望降低工時的負擔。在各種做法上面我們都可以看哪些部分能夠做。部長你就是要來要去。但是針對我...\n\n02:06.929 --> 02:27.149\n你不敢直接回答問題這個也是勞團已經發現你的問題喔就是你都沒有正面回答那陶總他就批評你們說在砍國定假日的時候勞動部當時是站上第一線支持的現在增加國定假日結果勞動部說跟我沒有關係你從剛剛的回答到現在你都是說我沒有說跟我沒有關係\n\n02:29.571 --> 02:56.628\n那你贊成還是反對?總要有個立場吧!黃部長!勇敢一點!我要向你說明這件事情涉及到跨部會的權責所以你不敢表達你的立場我們當然會把勞工的期待跟訴求在跨部會討論的時候表達出來我的問題是作為一個勞工的大家長勞動部部長到底是贊成恢復國定期限價還是反對?\n\n02:58.530 --> 03:19.886\n我們會把現在勞工朋友的聲音跟期待反映...部長你就是不敢回答問題這個就是我看到現在如果我們換了一個紅部長上來標榜說他是跟基層勞工比較接近的會為弱勢發聲的結果在關鍵議題上面不敢表態第二個問題提高加班費的費率你贊成還是反對我覺得我們當然希望能夠盡力的爭取所以是贊成\n\n03:28.537 --> 03:50.695\n為什麼贊成反對都回答不出來紅部長你知道你這樣子會讓勞工朋友多失望嗎你標榜要跟勞工朋友站在一起請聽勞工的心聲你站上了這個位置之後你可以決定你可以拍板你到底支不支持當你支持的時候就是帶領全國的勞工在往前進往前推結果你現在在這樣的一個未還委員會回答模擬兩可不敢表達你的立場\n\n03:55.679 --> 04:08.786\n你真的是跟勞工站在一起嗎?還是你現在必須聽命行政院,必須聽命經濟部跟內政部,只要各部會部長他們反對,作為勞動部部長你只好跟著他們的步驟?\n\n04:08.786 --> 04:12.689\n這並不是聽命。第一個這並不是聽命。那你要我主張?\n\n04:12.689 --> 04:14.530\n我們當然有一個方向上的期待。\n\n04:15.629 --> 04:34.616\n但是這裡面確實這裡面如果它涉及到跨部會的權責的話我們當然是盡力來反映。部長、紅部長所有的協商都是你要先有立場你要有主張你才可以去跟人家談判。所以我們要把這樣的聲音給表達出來盡力的來爭取。我可以說你贊成恢復國定7天假嗎?\n\n04:39.318 --> 04:58.011\n我們會把相關勞工的聲音給反映出來在這樣子模擬兩可下去我覺得你當不了勞動部的部長太軟弱我必須這樣講沒有立場不夠堅定你要如何去捍衛勞工的權益這個是我請洪部長你要好好去思考的\n\n04:58.391 --> 05:02.914\n不是推給其他部會啊,部會大家都一樣大,所以你要有主張,當你站穩了你的立場跟主張之後,你才可以去跟其他的部會來談判來溝通,人家一問勞動部部長主張是什麼?\n\n05:14.801 --> 05:33.808\n沒有主張。沒有主張當然就順著內政部部長的意見啊。這個時候要講的第一件事情因為我們現在勞工工時過長如果你上任一樣提不出解方你不敢站在勞工的立場勞工已經提出他們的解方就是這樣子結果你不敢去支持的話我想我們臺灣的勞動力的總工時沒有最高還會更高\n\n05:39.710 --> 05:44.874\n你看到從114年到112年都還是在繼續成長第二件事情我要問你的關鍵態度勞保終究是會破產的問題不改革終究是會破產結果你上個禮拜你呼應了這個上一任的何佩珊的這個論點說撥補就是改革好你贊成你說你贊成撥補就是改革那我就問洪部長\n\n06:09.332 --> 06:11.095\n撥補就是改革請問你要撥補多少錢才不會讓勞保破產\n\n06:14.417 --> 06:16.318\n那是不是你支持讓最終責任入法?\n\n06:43.953 --> 06:57.567\n不管入法或不入法政府都會負最終的責任。你又是不敢講你真正的想法。既然是這樣子。現在的政策就是政府會來負最終支付的責任。因為現在的政府會換人會下台。我們現在的政策就是這樣。就必須入法全國勞工才有保障。那你支不支持最終責任入法?\n\n07:08.737 --> 07:20.884\n公務及基金預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主\n\n07:33.091 --> 07:39.853\n濫用救安基金然後7支影片花200萬結果你的觀看次數慘不忍睹啊部長你有去看過這7支影片嗎?他的觀看次數每一支要花將近30萬結果他的觀看次數只有幾百人每一支都只有幾百人你們做事情是這樣子做的嗎?這樣子是有效益嗎?\n\n07:59.707 --> 08:14.936\n就案基金好好花?隨便亂花?這就是你們做事情的態度嗎?你們有檢討嗎?公務員報告這幾支片子包括一個正片的部分連同7支影片大概有7萬多次的目前的瀏覽率。\n\n08:16.061 --> 08:35.392\n是喔是從哪邊看的?它的證片包括那個所謂的音樂會的那個部分還有加上七支影片的部分那七支影片的部分它你要把所有的資訊都給我我要好好的來解釋你們你們這個到底是怎麼樣就是濫用救安基金我們再把相關的資訊給王委員對這個標案裡面我就讓部長看\n\n08:39.835 --> 09:04.266\n你這整個標案委外的這個金額是每一年都漲那你這個宣傳採購費用呢從106年開始到113年大家來看一下得標廠商得標廠商從108年開始就只有三家媒體通通都不會變動三立、民視、年代\n\n09:06.505 --> 09:21.424\n從108年、109年、110年、111、112、113年全部無論其他有哪一些別家的媒體來投標一定是三立民事年代得標。\n\n09:23.144 --> 09:44.397\n哇好巧喔這個是不是要招標我們整個這個勞動部的宣傳採購費用還要有特定的政治立場這個如果你顏色不對的是中性的或者是偏藍色的或是你其他標榜你專業通通都沒有用啦就只有這三家會得標啦跟委員報告我們都是透過公開的採購程序\n\n09:46.038 --> 09:56.183\n好你公開我現在就要求這幾年來這個標案評審是誰照標的過程請如實的揭露我要所有的社會大眾來評評理我們要讓那一些沒有得標的廠商大家心服口服到底你這連續幾年來是不是用的是同樣的評審然後那個評審的規則然後所有通通都應該揭露部長你贊成嗎我們通通都把它全面檢討如實揭露出來\n\n10:15.762 --> 10:44.628\n跟委員報告,我們的評審人是外聘文,多元聘文。我要部長回答。我覺得該揭露就揭露啊。好,全部通通都揭露出來,攤在陽光下。一方面是我們看到這個救安基金被濫用,一方面呢,又是得標廠商,固定就是幾家媒體。這當中到底有什麼樣的貓膩?而且召集人、主持人是誰?這個所有的通通攤在陽光下。你們多久可以整理出來?\n\n10:46.141 --> 11:08.671\n可以提供給委員會?一個月。好,一個月我要求這些資料通通都要提供。部長我就問你一件事情今天這些勞團在你勞動部前面就是在抗議其中一項就是救安基金要求你全面檢討要求你如實揭露請問你做得到嗎?這是現在我們正在做的事情\n\n11:09.022 --> 11:12.723\n正在做的事情好那就從這個標案開始這個媒體採購案開始我們要讓外界看到為什麼可以這樣子就是同樣都是同樣的媒體其他家來投標通通都不會得標這到底是為什麼我們要好好的揭露出來讓全國的民眾可以看而立法院也應該要強化監督救安基金的濫用已經讓國人沒有辦法忍受了所以接下來的預算審查\n\n11:38.129 --> 11:45.915\n大家都應該要全力的來把關。我們禁止這樣的一個救安基金被濫用到如此這般的程度。謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.974,"end":11.718,"text":"謝謝主席。我們是不是有請洪部長?有請洪部長。謝謝黃委員。洪部長,你知不知道此時此刻勞動部前面有勞團、有勞工朋友在那邊絕食抗議?知道。知道齁。那你知道他們的訴求是什麼嗎?"},{"start":30.921,"end":40.078,"text":"有針對救安基金的部分然後也有針對希望在一些跟勞動政策有關的一些議題對"},{"start":42.208,"end":58.557,"text":"講得模糊齁其中一個就是跟過勞的問題有關喔勞工的訴求很清楚就是要恢復國定的7天假而且也希望提高加班費的費率我就問洪部長請問你對這兩個議題你是支持還是反對"},{"start":64.703,"end":81.577,"text":"跟網友說明第一個我當然是支持要降低勞工在公事上面的負擔的我當然是支持的你直接回答因為本席也發現你的回答都是有點避重就輕然後沒有針對直接的問題具體明白的回覆勞團也發現你這個問題對於國定假日的議題"},{"start":86.226,"end":108.512,"text":"你贊不贊成恢復國定的7天假?贊成或反對就這樣就好。跟王美說明對於國定假日的議題確實這部分現在相關的法規的權責在內政部我們會把勞工的聲音要如實勞動部要先有立場你到底支不支持恢復國定的7天假?"},{"start":109.778,"end":124.73,"text":"你回答不出來,不敢回答。我不是不敢回答。那你就回答,支持還是反對?這個我不是不敢回答。我現在說的事情是我們當然希望降低工時的負擔。在各種做法上面我們都可以看哪些部分能夠做。部長你就是要來要去。但是針對我..."},{"start":126.929,"end":147.149,"text":"你不敢直接回答問題這個也是勞團已經發現你的問題喔就是你都沒有正面回答那陶總他就批評你們說在砍國定假日的時候勞動部當時是站上第一線支持的現在增加國定假日結果勞動部說跟我沒有關係你從剛剛的回答到現在你都是說我沒有說跟我沒有關係"},{"start":149.571,"end":176.628,"text":"那你贊成還是反對?總要有個立場吧!黃部長!勇敢一點!我要向你說明這件事情涉及到跨部會的權責所以你不敢表達你的立場我們當然會把勞工的期待跟訴求在跨部會討論的時候表達出來我的問題是作為一個勞工的大家長勞動部部長到底是贊成恢復國定期限價還是反對?"},{"start":178.53,"end":199.886,"text":"我們會把現在勞工朋友的聲音跟期待反映...部長你就是不敢回答問題這個就是我看到現在如果我們換了一個紅部長上來標榜說他是跟基層勞工比較接近的會為弱勢發聲的結果在關鍵議題上面不敢表態第二個問題提高加班費的費率你贊成還是反對我覺得我們當然希望能夠盡力的爭取所以是贊成"},{"start":208.537,"end":230.695,"text":"為什麼贊成反對都回答不出來紅部長你知道你這樣子會讓勞工朋友多失望嗎你標榜要跟勞工朋友站在一起請聽勞工的心聲你站上了這個位置之後你可以決定你可以拍板你到底支不支持當你支持的時候就是帶領全國的勞工在往前進往前推結果你現在在這樣的一個未還委員會回答模擬兩可不敢表達你的立場"},{"start":235.679,"end":248.786,"text":"你真的是跟勞工站在一起嗎?還是你現在必須聽命行政院,必須聽命經濟部跟內政部,只要各部會部長他們反對,作為勞動部部長你只好跟著他們的步驟?"},{"start":248.786,"end":252.689,"text":"這並不是聽命。第一個這並不是聽命。 那你要我主張?"},{"start":252.689,"end":254.53,"text":"我們當然有一個方向上的期待。"},{"start":255.629,"end":274.616,"text":"但是這裡面確實這裡面如果它涉及到跨部會的權責的話我們當然是盡力來反映。部長、紅部長所有的協商都是你要先有立場你要有主張你才可以去跟人家談判。所以我們要把這樣的聲音給表達出來盡力的來爭取。我可以說你贊成恢復國定7天假嗎?"},{"start":279.318,"end":298.011,"text":"我們會把相關勞工的聲音給反映出來在這樣子模擬兩可下去我覺得你當不了勞動部的部長太軟弱我必須這樣講沒有立場不夠堅定你要如何去捍衛勞工的權益這個是我請洪部長你要好好去思考的"},{"start":298.391,"end":302.914,"text":"不是推給其他部會啊,部會大家都一樣大,所以你要有主張,當你站穩了你的立場跟主張之後,你才可以去跟其他的部會來談判來溝通,人家一問勞動部部長主張是什麼?"},{"start":314.801,"end":333.808,"text":"沒有主張。 沒有主張當然就順著內政部部長的意見啊。 這個時候要講的第一件事情因為我們現在勞工工時過長如果你上任一樣提不出解方你不敢站在勞工的立場勞工已經提出他們的解方就是這樣子結果你不敢去支持的話我想我們臺灣的勞動力的總工時沒有最高還會更高"},{"start":339.71,"end":344.874,"text":"你看到從114年到112年都還是在繼續成長第二件事情我要問你的關鍵態度勞保終究是會破產的問題不改革終究是會破產結果你上個禮拜你呼應了這個上一任的何佩珊的這個論點說撥補就是改革好你贊成你說你贊成撥補就是改革那我就問洪部長"},{"start":369.332,"end":371.095,"text":"撥補就是改革請問你要撥補多少錢才不會讓勞保破產"},{"start":374.417,"end":376.318,"text":"那是不是你支持讓最終責任入法?"},{"start":403.953,"end":417.567,"text":"不管入法或不入法政府都會負最終的責任。你又是不敢講你真正的想法。既然是這樣子。現在的政策就是政府會來負最終支付的責任。因為現在的政府會換人會下台。我們現在的政策就是這樣。就必須入法全國勞工才有保障。那你支不支持最終責任入法?"},{"start":428.737,"end":440.884,"text":"公務及基金預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主管預算案關於勞動部主"},{"start":453.091,"end":459.853,"text":"濫用救安基金然後7支影片花200萬結果你的觀看次數慘不忍睹啊部長你有去看過這7支影片嗎?他的觀看次數每一支要花將近30萬結果他的觀看次數只有幾百人每一支都只有幾百人你們做事情是這樣子做的嗎?這樣子是有效益嗎?"},{"start":479.707,"end":494.936,"text":"就案基金好好花?隨便亂花?這就是你們做事情的態度嗎?你們有檢討嗎?公務員報告這幾支片子包括一個正片的部分連同7支影片大概有7萬多次的目前的瀏覽率。"},{"start":496.061,"end":515.392,"text":"是喔 是從哪邊看的?它的證片包括那個所謂的音樂會的那個部分還有加上七支影片的部分那七支影片的部分它你要把所有的資訊都給我我要好好的來解釋你們你們這個到底是怎麼樣就是濫用救安基金我們再把相關的資訊給王委員對 這個標案裡面我就讓部長看"},{"start":519.835,"end":544.266,"text":"你這整個標案委外的這個金額是每一年都漲那你這個宣傳採購費用呢從106年開始到113年大家來看一下得標廠商得標廠商從108年開始就只有三家媒體通通都不會變動三立、民視、年代"},{"start":546.505,"end":561.424,"text":"從108年、109年、110年、111、112、113年全部無論其他有哪一些別家的媒體來投標一定是三立民事年代得標。"},{"start":563.144,"end":584.397,"text":"哇 好巧喔 這個是不是要招標我們整個這個勞動部的宣傳採購費用還要有特定的政治立場這個如果你顏色不對的是中性的或者是偏藍色的或是你其他標榜你專業通通都沒有用啦就只有這三家會得標啦跟委員報告我們都是透過公開的採購程序"},{"start":586.038,"end":596.183,"text":"好你公開我現在就要求這幾年來這個標案評審是誰照標的過程請如實的揭露我要所有的社會大眾來評評理我們要讓那一些沒有得標的廠商大家心服口服到底你這連續幾年來是不是用的是同樣的評審然後那個評審的規則然後所有通通都應該揭露部長你贊成嗎我們通通都把它全面檢討如實揭露出來"},{"start":615.762,"end":644.628,"text":"跟委員報告,我們的評審人是外聘文,多元聘文。我要部長回答。我覺得該揭露就揭露啊。好,全部通通都揭露出來,攤在陽光下。一方面是我們看到這個救安基金被濫用,一方面呢,又是得標廠商,固定就是幾家媒體。這當中到底有什麼樣的貓膩?而且召集人、主持人是誰?這個所有的通通攤在陽光下。你們多久可以整理出來?"},{"start":646.141,"end":668.671,"text":"可以提供給委員會?一個月。好,一個月我要求這些資料通通都要提供。部長我就問你一件事情今天這些勞團在你勞動部前面就是在抗議其中一項就是救安基金要求你全面檢討要求你如實揭露請問你做得到嗎?這是現在我們正在做的事情"},{"start":669.022,"end":672.723,"text":"正在做的事情好那就從這個標案開始這個媒體採購案開始我們要讓外界看到為什麼可以這樣子就是同樣都是同樣的媒體其他家來投標通通都不會得標這到底是為什麼我們要好好的揭露出來讓全國的民眾可以看而立法院也應該要強化監督救安基金的濫用已經讓國人沒有辦法忍受了所以接下來的預算審查"},{"start":698.129,"end":705.915,"text":"大家都應該要全力的來把關。我們禁止這樣的一個救安基金被濫用到如此這般的程度。謝謝。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":361,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（10時25分）謝謝主席，是不是有請洪部長？"],["主席：有請洪部長。"],["王委員育敏：洪部長，你知不知道此時此刻勞動部前面有勞團、有勞工朋友在那邊絕食抗議？"],["洪部長申翰：知道。"],["王委員育敏：那你知道他們的訴求是什麼嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：有針對就安基金的部分，然後也有針對一些跟勞動政策有關的議題。"],["王委員育敏：講得模糊，其中一個就是跟過勞的問題有關，勞工的訴求很清楚，就是要恢復國定的七天假，而且也希望提高加班費費率，我就問洪部長，請問你對這兩個議題是支持還是反對？"],["洪部長申翰：跟王委員說明，第一、我當然支持要降低勞工在工時上面的負擔。"],["王委員育敏：你直接回答，因為本席也發現你的回答都是有點避重就輕，然後沒有直接針對問題具體明白的回復，勞團也發現你這個問題。"],["洪部長申翰：對於國定假日的議題……"],["王委員育敏：你贊不贊成恢復國定的七天假？"],["洪部長申翰：這個我想……"],["王委員育敏：贊成或反對就這樣就好，一句話。"],["洪部長申翰：跟王委員說明，對於國定假日的議題，現在相關的法規權責確實在內政部，我們希望能把勞工的聲音如實帶給內政部。"],["王委員育敏：不是勞工的聲音，你勞動部要先有立場，你到底支不支持恢復國定的七天假？你回答不出來，不敢回答？"],["洪部長申翰：不是，我不是不敢回答。"],["王委員育敏：那你就回答支持還是反對。"],["洪部長申翰：王委員，我不是不敢回答，我現在說的事情是，我們當然希望降低工時的負擔，在各種作法上我們都可以看哪些部分能夠做。"],["王委員育敏：部長，你就是繞來繞去，不敢直接回答問題，這個也是勞團已經發現的問題，就是你都沒有正面回答。桃總就批評你們說，在砍國定假日的時候，勞動部當時是站上第一線支持的，現在要增加國定假日，結果勞動部說跟我沒有關係，你從剛剛的回答到現在你都是推給內政部。"],["洪部長申翰：我沒有說跟我沒有關係。"],["王委員育敏：那你贊成還是反對？總要有個立場吧。"],["洪部長申翰：王委員，這件事情……"],["王委員育敏：洪部長，勇敢一點！"],["洪部長申翰：王委員，我要向你說明，這件事情涉及到跨部會的權責……"],["王委員育敏：所以你不敢表達？"],["洪部長申翰：我們當然會把勞工的期待跟訴求在跨部會討論的時候表達出來。"],["王委員育敏：我的問題是，作為一個勞工的大家長，勞動部部長到底是贊成恢復國定七天假還是反對？"],["洪部長申翰：我們會把現在勞工朋友的聲音跟期待反映……"],["王委員育敏：部長，你就是不敢回答問題，這個就是我看到現在，如果我們換了一個洪部長上來，標榜說他是跟基層勞工比較接近的、會為弱勢發聲的，結果在關鍵議題上面不敢表態。第二個問題，提高加班費的費率，你贊成還是反對？"],["洪部長申翰：我們當然希望能夠盡力的爭取。"],["王委員育敏：所以是贊成？為什麼贊成、反對都回答不出來？洪部長，你知道你這樣會讓勞工朋友多失望嗎？你標榜要跟勞工朋友站在一起，傾聽勞工的心聲，你站上了這個位置之後，你可以決定、你可以拍板你到底支不支持，當你支持的時候就是帶領全國的勞工再往前進、往前推，結果你現在在衛環委員會回答模稜兩可，不敢表達你的立場，你真的是跟勞工站在一起嗎？還是你現在必須聽命行政院，必須聽命經濟部跟內政部，只要各部會部長反對，作為勞動部部長，你只好跟著他們的步調？"],["洪部長申翰：王委員，這並不是聽命，第一個，這並不是聽命。"],["王委員育敏：那你要有主張。"],["洪部長申翰：我們當然有一個方向上的期待，但是這裡面確實……"],["王委員育敏：那到底是贊成還是反對？為什麼這麼模糊？"],["洪部長申翰：確實這裡面如果涉及到跨部會的權責的話，我們當然是盡力來反映。"],["王委員育敏：洪部長，所有的協商都是你要先有立場，你要有主張，才可以去跟人家談判……"],["洪部長申翰：所以我們要把這樣的聲音給表達出來，盡力來爭取。"],["王委員育敏：所以你贊成？我可以說你贊成恢復國定七天假嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：我們會把相關勞工的聲音給反映出來。"],["王委員育敏：再這樣模稜兩可下去，我覺得你當不了勞動部部長，太軟弱，我必須這樣講，沒有立場、不夠堅定，你要如何捍衛勞工的權益？這是我請洪部長要好好去思考的，不是推給其他部會！部會都一樣大。"],["洪部長申翰：我們沒有推給其他部會，我們就是把勞工……"],["王委員育敏：所以你要有主張……"],["洪部長申翰：從勞工角度的聲音要反映出來。"],["王委員育敏：當你站穩了你的立場和主張之後，你才可以去跟其他的部會談判、溝通，人家一問勞動部部長的主張是什麼？沒有主張！沒有主張，當然就順著內政部部長的意見哪！這個是我要講的第一件事情。因為現在我們的勞工工時過長，如果你上任一樣提不出解方，你不敢站在勞工的立場，勞工已經提出他們的解方就是這樣子，結果你不敢去支持的話，我想臺灣勞動力的總工時沒有最高，還會更高！你看到從112年到114年都還是在繼續成長。","第二件事情，我要問你的關鍵態度，勞保終究是會破產的問題，不改革終究是會破產。結果上個禮拜，你呼應了上一任何佩珊的論點說撥補就是改革。你說你贊成撥補就是改革，那我就問洪部長，既然撥補就是改革，請問你要撥補多少錢才不會讓勞保破產？"],["洪部長申翰：跟王委員說明，其實勞保基金的水位今年底應該會破1兆，是創新高，撥補只是手段之一，這幾年基金的投資盈餘……"],["王委員育敏：投資有賺有賠。"],["洪部長申翰：對，也很好。但我要提的事情是，政府終究會負最終的相關責任。"],["王委員育敏：好，那你是不是支持讓最終責任入法？"],["洪部長申翰：不管入法或不入法，政府都會負最終的責任。"],["王委員育敏：你看你又來了，你又是不敢講你真正的想法。既然是這樣子，那就支持修法。"],["洪部長申翰：現在的政策就是政府會負最終支付的責任。"],["王委員育敏：因為現在的政府會換人、會下臺……"],["洪部長申翰：我們現在的政策就是這樣。"],["王委員育敏：不可能是空口白話……"],["洪部長申翰：對……"],["王委員育敏：就必須入法，全國勞工才有保障。那你支不支持最終責任入法？"],["洪部長申翰：我覺得，我自己是正向的態度在看待這一個議題。"],["王委員育敏：那就是支持，好不好？"],["洪部長申翰：我以正向的態度看待這個議題。"],["王委員育敏：修法的時候、法案送進來時，你就不能再迴避囉？"],["洪部長申翰：我以正向的態度看待這個議題。"],["王委員育敏：好，我就說洪部長是支持最終責任入法。","接下來，今天是審查預算的部分，我們持續來看你們的預算到底出了多大的問題。包括我之前揭露你們濫用就安基金，7支影片花200萬，結果觀看次數慘不忍睹。部長，你有看過這7支影片嗎？每一支要花將近30萬，結果它的觀看次數只有幾百人，每一支都只有幾百人，你們做事情是這樣子做的嗎？這樣子有效益嗎？就安基金好好花、隨便亂花，這就是你們做事情的態度嗎？你們有檢討嗎？"],["黃司長維琛：跟委員報告，這幾支片子，包括一個正片的部分，連同7支影片，目前的瀏覽率大概有七萬多次。"],["王委員育敏：是喔？是從哪邊看的？"],["黃司長維琛：它的正片，包括所謂音樂會的那個部分，再加上7支影片的部分，那7支影片的部分……"],["王委員育敏：你要把所有的資訊都給我，我要好好地檢視你們到底是怎麼樣濫用就安基金。"],["洪部長申翰：我們再把相關的資訊給王委員。"],["王委員育敏：在這一個標案裡面，我就讓部長看，你這整個標案委外金額是每一年都漲，而宣傳採購費用從106年開始到113年，大家來看一下得標廠商，得標廠商從108年開始就只有3家媒體，通通都不會變動，三立、民視、年代。從108年、109年、110年，111年、112年、113年全部都是，不論有哪些別家的媒體投標，一定是三立、民視、年代得標。哇！好巧喔！是不是要標整個勞動部的宣傳採購還要有特定的政治立場？如果你顏色不對，是中性的或者偏藍色或其他你所標榜的專業通通都沒有用？就只有這3家會得標啦！"],["王司長厚誠：跟委員報告，我們都是透過公開的採購程序。"],["王委員育敏：好，很好，你公開……"],["王司長厚誠：而且都是很多家來投標。"],["王委員育敏：我現在就要求，這幾年來，這一個標案的評審是誰，招標的過程請如實揭露，我要所有的社會大眾評評理，我們要讓那一些沒有得標的廠商大家心服口服，到底連續幾年來你是不是用同樣的評審？"],["王司長厚誠：不一樣，通通不一樣。"],["王委員育敏：評審的規則及所有的通通都應該揭露，部長贊成嗎？我們通通都把它全面檢討，如實揭露出來。"],["王司長厚誠：跟委員報告，我們的評選委員是外聘委員……"],["王委員育敏：我要部長回答。"],["洪部長申翰：我覺得該揭露的就揭露。"],["王委員育敏：好，全部通通都揭露出來，攤在陽光下。一方面我們看到就安基金被濫用，一方面得標廠商固定就是那幾家媒體，這當中到底有什麼樣的貓膩？而且召集人、主持人是誰，所有的通通攤在陽光下，你們多久可以整理出來提供給委員會？"],["洪部長申翰：1個月。"],["王委員育敏：好，1個月，我要求這些資料通通都要提供。部長，我就問你一件事情，今天這些勞團在勞動部前面抗議，其中一項就是就安基金，要求你全面檢討、要求你如實揭露，請問你做得到嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：這是現在我們正在做的事情。"],["王委員育敏：正在做的事情嘛？"],["洪部長申翰：對。"],["王委員育敏：好，那就從這個標案開始。從這個媒體採購案開始，我們要讓外界看到，為什麼可以這樣子？都是同樣的媒體得標，其他家來投標通通都不會得標，這到底是為什麼？我們要好好地揭露出來給全國民眾看。而立法院也應該強化監督，就安基金的濫用已經讓國人沒有辦法忍受了，所以接下來的預算審查，大家都應該要全力把關，我們禁止就安基金被濫用到這般的程度。"],["洪部長申翰：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王育敏委員的發言、謝謝部長。下一位請涂權吉委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":196,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-13","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","王育敏","涂權吉","盧縣一","陳瑩","蘇清泉","陳培瑜","林淑芬","賴士葆","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","洪孟楷","羅廷瑋","麥玉珍","楊曜","王正旭","黃國昌","張啓楷","劉建國","翁曉玲","王鴻薇","張雅琳"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-09"],"gazette_id":"1140403","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140403_00002","1140403_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案\n關於勞動部主管預算（公務及基金預算）；三、審查勞動部函送財團法人職業災害預防及重建中心\n114年度預算書案【所列預算案，僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1140403_00001"}}}