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\"end\": 222.652, \"text\": \"花了很多時間所以讓這名無姓處長有時間申請調職到國發會嗎?還是臺鐵想要隱藏什麼?這個我不清楚沒有跟委員報告沒有隱藏那現在目前國發會是不讓這名無姓的員工入職所以目前的程序暫緩了那請問董事長那這名無姓員工調職暫緩之後人會在哪一個單位?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"花\", \"start\": 200.936, \"end\": 201.076, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 201.076, \"end\": 201.196, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 201.196, \"end\": 201.376, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 201.376, \"end\": 201.917, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 201.917, \"end\": 202.077, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 202.077, \"end\": 202.657, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 202.657, \"end\": 202.837, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"無\", \"start\": 202.837, \"end\": 202.958, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"姓\", \"start\": 202.958, \"end\": 203.618, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 203.618, \"end\": 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\"目前還是在他原來的職務上如果他之後沒有辦法到國發會他繼續在台鐵待著的話還會讓他繼續在台鐵職場霸凌嗎跟委員報告有沒有霸凌這件事情我們是透過程序慎重的處理\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 226.193, \"end\": 226.393, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 226.393, \"end\": 226.754, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 226.754, \"end\": 226.914, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 226.914, \"end\": 228.134, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 228.134, \"end\": 228.314, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 228.314, \"end\": 228.694, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 228.694, \"end\": 229.194, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"職\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 229.194, \"end\": 229.774, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 229.774, \"end\": 229.854, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 229.854, \"end\": 229.894, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 229.894, \"end\": 230.074, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 239.937, \"end\": 240.117, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"霸\", \"start\": 240.117, \"end\": 240.277, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"凌\", \"start\": 240.277, \"end\": 240.637, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 240.637, \"end\": 240.897, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 240.897, \"end\": 241.117, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 241.117, \"end\": 241.717, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 241.717, \"end\": 242.037, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 242.037, \"end\": 242.257, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 242.257, \"end\": 242.697, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 242.697, \"end\": 242.978, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"序\", \"start\": 242.978, \"end\": 243.838, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"慎\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 243.838, \"end\": 244.038, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 244.038, \"end\": 244.258, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 244.258, \"end\": 244.278, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 246.045, \"end\": 271.245, \"text\": \"據實有透過程序慎重的處理嗎?對OK那如果他繼續在台鐵霸凌的話那就是台鐵應作為而不作為那因為台鐵的霸凌案那本席也有去了解到港務公司霸凌成立案之霸凌行為喔我們相較港務公司和台鐵公司那簡報中董事長您可以看到這兩個表格分別為台鐵在112年9月14號的時候調查委員會的紀錄還有港務公司霸凌成立案之霸凌行為請問部長\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 246.045, \"end\": 246.125, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 246.125, \"end\": 246.426, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 246.426, \"end\": 246.606, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"序\", \"start\": 246.606, \"end\": 246.986, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"慎\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 246.986, \"end\": 247.206, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 247.206, \"end\": 247.586, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 247.586, \"end\": 248.327, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, 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{\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 513.638, \"end\": 513.818, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 513.818, \"end\": 513.958, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 513.958, \"end\": 514.038, \"score\": 0.742}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 514.038, \"end\": 514.138, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 514.138, \"end\": 514.198, \"score\": 0.652}, {\"word\": \"附\", \"start\": 514.198, \"end\": 514.399, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 514.399, \"end\": 514.839, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 514.839, \"end\": 514.859, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,330 --> 00:00:07,517\n主席好謝謝主席主席有請交通部陳部長還有台鐵公司杜董事長\n\n2\n00:00:20,173 --> 00:00:43,035\n部長我們最近看到不只勞動部有傳出霸凌在交通部也有激起霸凌的事件那部長您有強調程序不會延遲然後也有承諾會接觸每一個人那今天我們就臺鐵公司人力資源處無信處長霸凌案那本席要向杜董事長來一一瞭解那也請董事長一一的來說明我們先看到這個時間\n\n3\n00:00:45,609 --> 00:01:11,678\n這是臺鐵人力資源處副縣處長疑似霸凌案臺鐵的處理經過那有幾個問題要救教董事長申訴人在去年1、2年6月29日就提出了不法侵害的通知單那在同年9月14號召開調查委員會就認定了有霸凌的行為這邊要請問董事長臺鐵為何要等到申訴人在1、2年的11月10號提出臺鐵不回覆通報表的申訴之後才向申訴人回函\n\n4\n00:01:13,168 --> 00:01:24,133\n這個部分我們在9月14號這邊表上講的就是我們調查委員會有一個認定以後我們有通知雙方的當事人\n\n5\n00:01:24,844 --> 00:01:44,571\n那剛剛在這個表上講的是因為通知了雙方當事人以後這個雙方都有提出這個申訴所以我們要處理這個情形所以才會有11月的這個結果其實董事長經辦的歷程需要這麼長的時間嗎為什麼這個辦連案成立花了兩個月可是推翻卻不到半個月\n\n6\n00:01:46,587 --> 00:02:00,022\n沒有講要推翻只是後面依據公務人員保障法的規定因為他有提出申訴所以我們就依據這個規定我們就是要妥勝處理\n\n7\n00:02:00,683 --> 00:02:18,973\n那確實前面的801案他調查了這麼久那推翻的成立決論卻這麼快那是前面的調查小組效率太差嗎?還是後面的調查小組草草了事?因為雙方剛剛講雙方都有提申訴所以我們在處理的過程中要很慎重很仔細\n\n8\n00:02:20,086 --> 00:02:48,797\n此確實要很慎重很仔細那我們看到今年5月7號的時候保訊會也要求臺鐵兩個月內要做出釋法的處理然後臺鐵在7月12號的時候要求延長回覆的期限那這個到了延長期限過後保訊處又分別在9月23號還有10月18號發文兩次要求臺鐵來做回覆可是臺鐵到了11月15號才回文回文的內容他有僅敘述收到保訊後的文後的處理經過然後還有他的\n\n9\n00:02:49,719 --> 00:02:50,768\n處理經過以及10月18號會重啟\n\n10\n00:02:53,229 --> 00:03:20,116\n調查會議請問董事長本來處理起來很困難嗎是有什麼樣的困難是還是就是剛剛跟委員報告的這個是案件因為雙方都有各自的立場所以我們是很慎重我們甚至於這個很慎重所以足足拖了半年沒有沒有我們包括第二次我們重啟調查的調查委員會我們包括委員的委員的組成還有包括雙方當事人都提供資料都花了很多時間\n\n11\n00:03:20,936 --> 00:03:42,652\n花了很多時間所以讓這名無姓處長有時間申請調職到國發會嗎?還是臺鐵想要隱藏什麼?這個我不清楚沒有跟委員報告沒有隱藏那現在目前國發會是不讓這名無姓的員工入職所以目前的程序暫緩了那請問董事長那這名無姓員工調職暫緩之後人會在哪一個單位?\n\n12\n00:03:46,193 --> 00:04:04,278\n目前還是在他原來的職務上如果他之後沒有辦法到國發會他繼續在台鐵待著的話還會讓他繼續在台鐵職場霸凌嗎跟委員報告有沒有霸凌這件事情我們是透過程序慎重的處理\n\n13\n00:04:06,045 --> 00:04:31,245\n據實有透過程序慎重的處理嗎?對OK那如果他繼續在台鐵霸凌的話那就是台鐵應作為而不作為那因為台鐵的霸凌案那本席也有去了解到港務公司霸凌成立案之霸凌行為喔我們相較港務公司和台鐵公司那簡報中董事長您可以看到這兩個表格分別為台鐵在112年9月14號的時候調查委員會的紀錄還有港務公司霸凌成立案之霸凌行為請問部長\n\n14\n00:04:33,166 --> 00:04:53,127\n您看到這個簡報臺鐵的霸凌行為相較於港務公司來說真的是有過之而無不及那港務公司成立可是臺鐵公司卻不成立請問部長您認為臺鐵公司做出的決議合理嗎報告委員其實他們霸凌案的成立跟不成立雙方的當事人一定都有自己的權益\n\n15\n00:04:54,789 --> 00:04:55,970\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n16\n00:05:09,890 --> 00:05:36,969\n就是因為雙方有提出申訴然後依據申訴我們依據那個公務員保障法的規定我們妥善處理那我們為了這個事情我們因為很審慎我們還成立了委員會不是我們自己單純的那這邊也讓董事長了解被霸凌者然後還有其他的基層的員工也有指出無薪處長不滿員工的時候會貶低侮辱還有平退公文以及咆哮來霸凌員工並要求下屬\n\n17\n00:05:38,210 --> 00:05:39,792\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n18\n00:05:53,658 --> 00:05:58,459\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n19\n00:06:24,785 --> 00:06:45,959\n我說你們不改善工作環境讓這麼多人離職怎麼有去檢討嗎有有跟委員報告我們的調查委員會跟我們後面的那個調查結果出來以後調查委員會的委員還有做好幾項的建議這些建議就是剛剛委員講的說包括環境這邊先請教董事長一個問題上週台鐵在花蓮舉辦的共識營有46名的一級主管在現場請問董事長你有參加嗎\n\n20\n00:06:53,163 --> 00:07:19,260\n有我有參加那這名吳姓處長有沒有去處長好像沒有後來有他是有參加晚上的那個對我們報告者說吳處長抱怨霸凌案被慘功糾纏還在臺上感謝馮經理相挺逆轉霸凌案嚴當回文保訊會兩次審議霸凌不過依照吳處長的說法都應該是經理相挺的結果吧\n\n21\n00:07:19,900 --> 00:07:38,720\n跟委員報告您這一段我們那個共識營裡面沒有發生他這個應該是指在在那個另外再請教董事長對吳姓處長的802有不具名的員工指出吳姓處長有一個同性的親戚擔任立法委員您知道是哪一位立法委員嗎\n\n22\n00:07:40,122 --> 00:08:04,253\n這個我不清楚你不清楚那也有民眾陳情說吳姓處長的父親是高階公務人員退休稱自己的後臺很硬人脈很廣那不但如此還揚言自己是吳秉瑞委員的親戚那對於這則爆料的真偽本席在此向董事長求證他們有親戚關係嗎這個過程我並不清楚所以董事長對這個霸凌案你沒有去了解嗎\n\n23\n00:08:06,134 --> 00:08:31,176\n有啊,我有了解這個霸凌案啊,我也很關心啊但是剛剛委員您提的是講說他的親戚是無姓立法委員,這個我真的...所以你也不知道臺鐵的霸凌案處理這件...處理這個案件的時候是不是有受到壓力嗎?我這邊是沒有啦好,董事長您要確認喔,因為這個案件已經以送監察院,如果最後查出來與您說的不同,您要怎麼來做負責?\n\n24\n00:08:32,136 --> 00:08:34,859\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2330\t7517\t主席好謝謝主席主席有請交通部陳部長還有台鐵公司杜董事長\n20173\t43035\t部長我們最近看到不只勞動部有傳出霸凌在交通部也有激起霸凌的事件那部長您有強調程序不會延遲然後也有承諾會接觸每一個人那今天我們就臺鐵公司人力資源處無信處長霸凌案那本席要向杜董事長來一一瞭解那也請董事長一一的來說明我們先看到這個時間\n45609\t71678\t這是臺鐵人力資源處副縣處長疑似霸凌案臺鐵的處理經過那有幾個問題要救教董事長申訴人在去年1、2年6月29日就提出了不法侵害的通知單那在同年9月14號召開調查委員會就認定了有霸凌的行為這邊要請問董事長臺鐵為何要等到申訴人在1、2年的11月10號提出臺鐵不回覆通報表的申訴之後才向申訴人回函\n73168\t84133\t這個部分我們在9月14號這邊表上講的就是我們調查委員會有一個認定以後我們有通知雙方的當事人\n84844\t104571\t那剛剛在這個表上講的是因為通知了雙方當事人以後這個雙方都有提出這個申訴所以我們要處理這個情形所以才會有11月的這個結果其實董事長經辦的歷程需要這麼長的時間嗎為什麼這個辦連案成立花了兩個月可是推翻卻不到半個月\n106587\t120022\t沒有講要推翻只是後面依據公務人員保障法的規定因為他有提出申訴所以我們就依據這個規定我們就是要妥勝處理\n120683\t138973\t那確實前面的801案他調查了這麼久那推翻的成立決論卻這麼快那是前面的調查小組效率太差嗎?還是後面的調查小組草草了事?因為雙方剛剛講雙方都有提申訴所以我們在處理的過程中要很慎重很仔細\n140086\t168797\t此確實要很慎重很仔細那我們看到今年5月7號的時候保訊會也要求臺鐵兩個月內要做出釋法的處理然後臺鐵在7月12號的時候要求延長回覆的期限那這個到了延長期限過後保訊處又分別在9月23號還有10月18號發文兩次要求臺鐵來做回覆可是臺鐵到了11月15號才回文回文的內容他有僅敘述收到保訊後的文後的處理經過然後還有他的\n169719\t170768\t處理經過以及10月18號會重啟\n173229\t200116\t調查會議請問董事長本來處理起來很困難嗎是有什麼樣的困難是還是就是剛剛跟委員報告的這個是案件因為雙方都有各自的立場所以我們是很慎重我們甚至於這個很慎重所以足足拖了半年沒有沒有我們包括第二次我們重啟調查的調查委員會我們包括委員的委員的組成還有包括雙方當事人都提供資料都花了很多時間\n200936\t222652\t花了很多時間所以讓這名無姓處長有時間申請調職到國發會嗎?還是臺鐵想要隱藏什麼?這個我不清楚沒有跟委員報告沒有隱藏那現在目前國發會是不讓這名無姓的員工入職所以目前的程序暫緩了那請問董事長那這名無姓員工調職暫緩之後人會在哪一個單位?\n226193\t244278\t目前還是在他原來的職務上如果他之後沒有辦法到國發會他繼續在台鐵待著的話還會讓他繼續在台鐵職場霸凌嗎跟委員報告有沒有霸凌這件事情我們是透過程序慎重的處理\n246045\t271245\t據實有透過程序慎重的處理嗎?對OK那如果他繼續在台鐵霸凌的話那就是台鐵應作為而不作為那因為台鐵的霸凌案那本席也有去了解到港務公司霸凌成立案之霸凌行為喔我們相較港務公司和台鐵公司那簡報中董事長您可以看到這兩個表格分別為台鐵在112年9月14號的時候調查委員會的紀錄還有港務公司霸凌成立案之霸凌行為請問部長\n273166\t293127\t您看到這個簡報臺鐵的霸凌行為相較於港務公司來說真的是有過之而無不及那港務公司成立可是臺鐵公司卻不成立請問部長您認為臺鐵公司做出的決議合理嗎報告委員其實他們霸凌案的成立跟不成立雙方的當事人一定都有自己的權益\n294789\t295970\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n309890\t336969\t就是因為雙方有提出申訴然後依據申訴我們依據那個公務員保障法的規定我們妥善處理那我們為了這個事情我們因為很審慎我們還成立了委員會不是我們自己單純的那這邊也讓董事長了解被霸凌者然後還有其他的基層的員工也有指出無薪處長不滿員工的時候會貶低侮辱還有平退公文以及咆哮來霸凌員工並要求下屬\n338210\t339792\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n353658\t358459\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n384785\t405959\t我說你們不改善工作環境讓這麼多人離職怎麼有去檢討嗎有有跟委員報告我們的調查委員會跟我們後面的那個調查結果出來以後調查委員會的委員還有做好幾項的建議這些建議就是剛剛委員講的說包括環境這邊先請教董事長一個問題上週台鐵在花蓮舉辦的共識營有46名的一級主管在現場請問董事長你有參加嗎\n413163\t439260\t有我有參加那這名吳姓處長有沒有去處長好像沒有後來有他是有參加晚上的那個對我們報告者說吳處長抱怨霸凌案被慘功糾纏還在臺上感謝馮經理相挺逆轉霸凌案嚴當回文保訊會兩次審議霸凌不過依照吳處長的說法都應該是經理相挺的結果吧\n439900\t458720\t跟委員報告您這一段我們那個共識營裡面沒有發生他這個應該是指在在那個另外再請教董事長對吳姓處長的802有不具名的員工指出吳姓處長有一個同性的親戚擔任立法委員您知道是哪一位立法委員嗎\n460122\t484253\t這個我不清楚你不清楚那也有民眾陳情說吳姓處長的父親是高階公務人員退休稱自己的後臺很硬人脈很廣那不但如此還揚言自己是吳秉瑞委員的親戚那對於這則爆料的真偽本席在此向董事長求證他們有親戚關係嗎這個過程我並不清楚所以董事長對這個霸凌案你沒有去了解嗎\n486134\t511176\t有啊,我有了解這個霸凌案啊,我也很關心啊但是剛剛委員您提的是講說他的親戚是無姓立法委員,這個我真的...所以你也不知道臺鐵的霸凌案處理這件...處理這個案件的時候是不是有受到壓力嗎?我這邊是沒有啦好,董事長您要確認喔,因為這個案件已經以送監察院,如果最後查出來與您說的不同,您要怎麼來做負責?\n512136\t514859\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n","txt":"主席好謝謝主席主席有請交通部陳部長還有台鐵公司杜董事長\n部長我們最近看到不只勞動部有傳出霸凌在交通部也有激起霸凌的事件那部長您有強調程序不會延遲然後也有承諾會接觸每一個人那今天我們就臺鐵公司人力資源處無信處長霸凌案那本席要向杜董事長來一一瞭解那也請董事長一一的來說明我們先看到這個時間\n這是臺鐵人力資源處副縣處長疑似霸凌案臺鐵的處理經過那有幾個問題要救教董事長申訴人在去年1、2年6月29日就提出了不法侵害的通知單那在同年9月14號召開調查委員會就認定了有霸凌的行為這邊要請問董事長臺鐵為何要等到申訴人在1、2年的11月10號提出臺鐵不回覆通報表的申訴之後才向申訴人回函\n這個部分我們在9月14號這邊表上講的就是我們調查委員會有一個認定以後我們有通知雙方的當事人\n那剛剛在這個表上講的是因為通知了雙方當事人以後這個雙方都有提出這個申訴所以我們要處理這個情形所以才會有11月的這個結果其實董事長經辦的歷程需要這麼長的時間嗎為什麼這個辦連案成立花了兩個月可是推翻卻不到半個月\n沒有講要推翻只是後面依據公務人員保障法的規定因為他有提出申訴所以我們就依據這個規定我們就是要妥勝處理\n那確實前面的801案他調查了這麼久那推翻的成立決論卻這麼快那是前面的調查小組效率太差嗎?還是後面的調查小組草草了事?因為雙方剛剛講雙方都有提申訴所以我們在處理的過程中要很慎重很仔細\n此確實要很慎重很仔細那我們看到今年5月7號的時候保訊會也要求臺鐵兩個月內要做出釋法的處理然後臺鐵在7月12號的時候要求延長回覆的期限那這個到了延長期限過後保訊處又分別在9月23號還有10月18號發文兩次要求臺鐵來做回覆可是臺鐵到了11月15號才回文回文的內容他有僅敘述收到保訊後的文後的處理經過然後還有他的\n處理經過以及10月18號會重啟\n調查會議請問董事長本來處理起來很困難嗎是有什麼樣的困難是還是就是剛剛跟委員報告的這個是案件因為雙方都有各自的立場所以我們是很慎重我們甚至於這個很慎重所以足足拖了半年沒有沒有我們包括第二次我們重啟調查的調查委員會我們包括委員的委員的組成還有包括雙方當事人都提供資料都花了很多時間\n花了很多時間所以讓這名無姓處長有時間申請調職到國發會嗎?還是臺鐵想要隱藏什麼?這個我不清楚沒有跟委員報告沒有隱藏那現在目前國發會是不讓這名無姓的員工入職所以目前的程序暫緩了那請問董事長那這名無姓員工調職暫緩之後人會在哪一個單位?\n目前還是在他原來的職務上如果他之後沒有辦法到國發會他繼續在台鐵待著的話還會讓他繼續在台鐵職場霸凌嗎跟委員報告有沒有霸凌這件事情我們是透過程序慎重的處理\n據實有透過程序慎重的處理嗎?對OK那如果他繼續在台鐵霸凌的話那就是台鐵應作為而不作為那因為台鐵的霸凌案那本席也有去了解到港務公司霸凌成立案之霸凌行為喔我們相較港務公司和台鐵公司那簡報中董事長您可以看到這兩個表格分別為台鐵在112年9月14號的時候調查委員會的紀錄還有港務公司霸凌成立案之霸凌行為請問部長\n您看到這個簡報臺鐵的霸凌行為相較於港務公司來說真的是有過之而無不及那港務公司成立可是臺鐵公司卻不成立請問部長您認為臺鐵公司做出的決議合理嗎報告委員其實他們霸凌案的成立跟不成立雙方的當事人一定都有自己的權益\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n就是因為雙方有提出申訴然後依據申訴我們依據那個公務員保障法的規定我們妥善處理那我們為了這個事情我們因為很審慎我們還成立了委員會不是我們自己單純的那這邊也讓董事長了解被霸凌者然後還有其他的基層的員工也有指出無薪處長不滿員工的時候會貶低侮辱還有平退公文以及咆哮來霸凌員工並要求下屬\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n我說你們不改善工作環境讓這麼多人離職怎麼有去檢討嗎有有跟委員報告我們的調查委員會跟我們後面的那個調查結果出來以後調查委員會的委員還有做好幾項的建議這些建議就是剛剛委員講的說包括環境這邊先請教董事長一個問題上週台鐵在花蓮舉辦的共識營有46名的一級主管在現場請問董事長你有參加嗎\n有我有參加那這名吳姓處長有沒有去處長好像沒有後來有他是有參加晚上的那個對我們報告者說吳處長抱怨霸凌案被慘功糾纏還在臺上感謝馮經理相挺逆轉霸凌案嚴當回文保訊會兩次審議霸凌不過依照吳處長的說法都應該是經理相挺的結果吧\n跟委員報告您這一段我們那個共識營裡面沒有發生他這個應該是指在在那個另外再請教董事長對吳姓處長的802有不具名的員工指出吳姓處長有一個同性的親戚擔任立法委員您知道是哪一位立法委員嗎\n這個我不清楚你不清楚那也有民眾陳情說吳姓處長的父親是高階公務人員退休稱自己的後臺很硬人脈很廣那不但如此還揚言自己是吳秉瑞委員的親戚那對於這則爆料的真偽本席在此向董事長求證他們有親戚關係嗎這個過程我並不清楚所以董事長對這個霸凌案你沒有去了解嗎\n有啊,我有了解這個霸凌案啊,我也很關心啊但是剛剛委員您提的是講說他的親戚是無姓立法委員,這個我真的...所以你也不知道臺鐵的霸凌案處理這件...處理這個案件的時候是不是有受到壓力嗎?我這邊是沒有啦好,董事長您要確認喔,因為這個案件已經以送監察院,如果最後查出來與您說的不同,您要怎麼來做負責?\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.330 --> 00:07.517\n主席好謝謝主席主席有請交通部陳部長還有台鐵公司杜董事長\n\n00:20.173 --> 00:43.035\n部長我們最近看到不只勞動部有傳出霸凌在交通部也有激起霸凌的事件那部長您有強調程序不會延遲然後也有承諾會接觸每一個人那今天我們就臺鐵公司人力資源處無信處長霸凌案那本席要向杜董事長來一一瞭解那也請董事長一一的來說明我們先看到這個時間\n\n00:45.609 --> 01:11.678\n這是臺鐵人力資源處副縣處長疑似霸凌案臺鐵的處理經過那有幾個問題要救教董事長申訴人在去年1、2年6月29日就提出了不法侵害的通知單那在同年9月14號召開調查委員會就認定了有霸凌的行為這邊要請問董事長臺鐵為何要等到申訴人在1、2年的11月10號提出臺鐵不回覆通報表的申訴之後才向申訴人回函\n\n01:13.168 --> 01:24.133\n這個部分我們在9月14號這邊表上講的就是我們調查委員會有一個認定以後我們有通知雙方的當事人\n\n01:24.844 --> 01:44.571\n那剛剛在這個表上講的是因為通知了雙方當事人以後這個雙方都有提出這個申訴所以我們要處理這個情形所以才會有11月的這個結果其實董事長經辦的歷程需要這麼長的時間嗎為什麼這個辦連案成立花了兩個月可是推翻卻不到半個月\n\n01:46.587 --> 02:00.022\n沒有講要推翻只是後面依據公務人員保障法的規定因為他有提出申訴所以我們就依據這個規定我們就是要妥勝處理\n\n02:00.683 --> 02:18.973\n那確實前面的801案他調查了這麼久那推翻的成立決論卻這麼快那是前面的調查小組效率太差嗎?還是後面的調查小組草草了事?因為雙方剛剛講雙方都有提申訴所以我們在處理的過程中要很慎重很仔細\n\n02:20.086 --> 02:48.797\n此確實要很慎重很仔細那我們看到今年5月7號的時候保訊會也要求臺鐵兩個月內要做出釋法的處理然後臺鐵在7月12號的時候要求延長回覆的期限那這個到了延長期限過後保訊處又分別在9月23號還有10月18號發文兩次要求臺鐵來做回覆可是臺鐵到了11月15號才回文回文的內容他有僅敘述收到保訊後的文後的處理經過然後還有他的\n\n02:49.719 --> 02:50.768\n處理經過以及10月18號會重啟\n\n02:53.229 --> 03:20.116\n調查會議請問董事長本來處理起來很困難嗎是有什麼樣的困難是還是就是剛剛跟委員報告的這個是案件因為雙方都有各自的立場所以我們是很慎重我們甚至於這個很慎重所以足足拖了半年沒有沒有我們包括第二次我們重啟調查的調查委員會我們包括委員的委員的組成還有包括雙方當事人都提供資料都花了很多時間\n\n03:20.936 --> 03:42.652\n花了很多時間所以讓這名無姓處長有時間申請調職到國發會嗎?還是臺鐵想要隱藏什麼?這個我不清楚沒有跟委員報告沒有隱藏那現在目前國發會是不讓這名無姓的員工入職所以目前的程序暫緩了那請問董事長那這名無姓員工調職暫緩之後人會在哪一個單位?\n\n03:46.193 --> 04:04.278\n目前還是在他原來的職務上如果他之後沒有辦法到國發會他繼續在台鐵待著的話還會讓他繼續在台鐵職場霸凌嗎跟委員報告有沒有霸凌這件事情我們是透過程序慎重的處理\n\n04:06.045 --> 04:31.245\n據實有透過程序慎重的處理嗎?對OK那如果他繼續在台鐵霸凌的話那就是台鐵應作為而不作為那因為台鐵的霸凌案那本席也有去了解到港務公司霸凌成立案之霸凌行為喔我們相較港務公司和台鐵公司那簡報中董事長您可以看到這兩個表格分別為台鐵在112年9月14號的時候調查委員會的紀錄還有港務公司霸凌成立案之霸凌行為請問部長\n\n04:33.166 --> 04:53.127\n您看到這個簡報臺鐵的霸凌行為相較於港務公司來說真的是有過之而無不及那港務公司成立可是臺鐵公司卻不成立請問部長您認為臺鐵公司做出的決議合理嗎報告委員其實他們霸凌案的成立跟不成立雙方的當事人一定都有自己的權益\n\n04:54.789 --> 04:55.970\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n05:09.890 --> 05:36.969\n就是因為雙方有提出申訴然後依據申訴我們依據那個公務員保障法的規定我們妥善處理那我們為了這個事情我們因為很審慎我們還成立了委員會不是我們自己單純的那這邊也讓董事長了解被霸凌者然後還有其他的基層的員工也有指出無薪處長不滿員工的時候會貶低侮辱還有平退公文以及咆哮來霸凌員工並要求下屬\n\n05:38.210 --> 05:39.792\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n05:53.658 --> 05:58.459\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n06:24.785 --> 06:45.959\n我說你們不改善工作環境讓這麼多人離職怎麼有去檢討嗎有有跟委員報告我們的調查委員會跟我們後面的那個調查結果出來以後調查委員會的委員還有做好幾項的建議這些建議就是剛剛委員講的說包括環境這邊先請教董事長一個問題上週台鐵在花蓮舉辦的共識營有46名的一級主管在現場請問董事長你有參加嗎\n\n06:53.163 --> 07:19.260\n有我有參加那這名吳姓處長有沒有去處長好像沒有後來有他是有參加晚上的那個對我們報告者說吳處長抱怨霸凌案被慘功糾纏還在臺上感謝馮經理相挺逆轉霸凌案嚴當回文保訊會兩次審議霸凌不過依照吳處長的說法都應該是經理相挺的結果吧\n\n07:19.900 --> 07:38.720\n跟委員報告您這一段我們那個共識營裡面沒有發生他這個應該是指在在那個另外再請教董事長對吳姓處長的802有不具名的員工指出吳姓處長有一個同性的親戚擔任立法委員您知道是哪一位立法委員嗎\n\n07:40.122 --> 08:04.253\n這個我不清楚你不清楚那也有民眾陳情說吳姓處長的父親是高階公務人員退休稱自己的後臺很硬人脈很廣那不但如此還揚言自己是吳秉瑞委員的親戚那對於這則爆料的真偽本席在此向董事長求證他們有親戚關係嗎這個過程我並不清楚所以董事長對這個霸凌案你沒有去了解嗎\n\n08:06.134 --> 08:31.176\n有啊,我有了解這個霸凌案啊,我也很關心啊但是剛剛委員您提的是講說他的親戚是無姓立法委員,這個我真的...所以你也不知道臺鐵的霸凌案處理這件...處理這個案件的時候是不是有受到壓力嗎?我這邊是沒有啦好,董事長您要確認喔,因為這個案件已經以送監察院,如果最後查出來與您說的不同,您要怎麼來做負責?\n\n08:32.136 --> 08:34.859\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.33,"end":7.517,"text":"主席好謝謝主席主席有請交通部陳部長還有台鐵公司杜董事長"},{"start":20.173,"end":43.035,"text":"部長我們最近看到不只勞動部有傳出霸凌在交通部也有激起霸凌的事件那部長您有強調程序不會延遲然後也有承諾會接觸每一個人那今天我們就臺鐵公司人力資源處無信處長霸凌案那本席要向杜董事長來一一瞭解那也請董事長一一的來說明我們先看到這個時間"},{"start":45.609,"end":71.678,"text":"這是臺鐵人力資源處副縣處長疑似霸凌案臺鐵的處理經過那有幾個問題要救教董事長申訴人在去年1、2年6月29日就提出了不法侵害的通知單那在同年9月14號召開調查委員會就認定了有霸凌的行為這邊要請問董事長臺鐵為何要等到申訴人在1、2年的11月10號提出臺鐵不回覆通報表的申訴之後才向申訴人回函"},{"start":73.168,"end":84.133,"text":"這個部分我們在9月14號這邊表上講的就是我們調查委員會有一個認定以後我們有通知雙方的當事人"},{"start":84.844,"end":104.571,"text":"那剛剛在這個表上講的是因為通知了雙方當事人以後這個雙方都有提出這個申訴所以我們要處理這個情形所以才會有11月的這個結果其實董事長經辦的歷程需要這麼長的時間嗎為什麼這個辦連案成立花了兩個月可是推翻卻不到半個月"},{"start":106.587,"end":120.022,"text":"沒有講要推翻只是後面依據公務人員保障法的規定因為他有提出申訴所以我們就依據這個規定我們就是要妥勝處理"},{"start":120.683,"end":138.973,"text":"那確實前面的801案他調查了這麼久那推翻的成立決論卻這麼快那是前面的調查小組效率太差嗎?還是後面的調查小組草草了事?因為雙方剛剛講雙方都有提申訴所以我們在處理的過程中要很慎重很仔細"},{"start":140.086,"end":168.797,"text":"此確實要很慎重很仔細那我們看到今年5月7號的時候保訊會也要求臺鐵兩個月內要做出釋法的處理然後臺鐵在7月12號的時候要求延長回覆的期限那這個到了延長期限過後保訊處又分別在9月23號還有10月18號發文兩次要求臺鐵來做回覆可是臺鐵到了11月15號才回文回文的內容他有僅敘述收到保訊後的文後的處理經過然後還有他的"},{"start":169.719,"end":170.768,"text":"處理經過以及10月18號會重啟"},{"start":173.229,"end":200.116,"text":"調查會議請問董事長本來處理起來很困難嗎是有什麼樣的困難是還是就是剛剛跟委員報告的這個是案件因為雙方都有各自的立場所以我們是很慎重我們甚至於這個很慎重所以足足拖了半年沒有沒有我們包括第二次我們重啟調查的調查委員會我們包括委員的委員的組成還有包括雙方當事人都提供資料都花了很多時間"},{"start":200.936,"end":222.652,"text":"花了很多時間所以讓這名無姓處長有時間申請調職到國發會嗎?還是臺鐵想要隱藏什麼?這個我不清楚沒有跟委員報告沒有隱藏那現在目前國發會是不讓這名無姓的員工入職所以目前的程序暫緩了那請問董事長那這名無姓員工調職暫緩之後人會在哪一個單位?"},{"start":226.193,"end":244.278,"text":"目前還是在他原來的職務上如果他之後沒有辦法到國發會他繼續在台鐵待著的話還會讓他繼續在台鐵職場霸凌嗎跟委員報告有沒有霸凌這件事情我們是透過程序慎重的處理"},{"start":246.045,"end":271.245,"text":"據實有透過程序慎重的處理嗎?對OK那如果他繼續在台鐵霸凌的話那就是台鐵應作為而不作為那因為台鐵的霸凌案那本席也有去了解到港務公司霸凌成立案之霸凌行為喔我們相較港務公司和台鐵公司那簡報中董事長您可以看到這兩個表格分別為台鐵在112年9月14號的時候調查委員會的紀錄還有港務公司霸凌成立案之霸凌行為請問部長"},{"start":273.166,"end":293.127,"text":"您看到這個簡報臺鐵的霸凌行為相較於港務公司來說真的是有過之而無不及那港務公司成立可是臺鐵公司卻不成立請問部長您認為臺鐵公司做出的決議合理嗎報告委員其實他們霸凌案的成立跟不成立雙方的當事人一定都有自己的權益"},{"start":294.789,"end":295.97,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":309.89,"end":336.969,"text":"就是因為雙方有提出申訴然後依據申訴我們依據那個公務員保障法的規定我們妥善處理那我們為了這個事情我們因為很審慎我們還成立了委員會不是我們自己單純的那這邊也讓董事長了解被霸凌者然後還有其他的基層的員工也有指出無薪處長不滿員工的時候會貶低侮辱還有平退公文以及咆哮來霸凌員工並要求下屬"},{"start":338.21,"end":339.792,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":353.658,"end":358.459,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":384.785,"end":405.959,"text":"我說你們不改善工作環境讓這麼多人離職怎麼有去檢討嗎有有跟委員報告我們的調查委員會跟我們後面的那個調查結果出來以後調查委員會的委員還有做好幾項的建議這些建議就是剛剛委員講的說包括環境這邊先請教董事長一個問題上週台鐵在花蓮舉辦的共識營有46名的一級主管在現場請問董事長你有參加嗎"},{"start":413.163,"end":439.26,"text":"有我有參加那這名吳姓處長有沒有去處長好像沒有後來有他是有參加晚上的那個對我們報告者說吳處長抱怨霸凌案被慘功糾纏還在臺上感謝馮經理相挺逆轉霸凌案嚴當回文保訊會兩次審議霸凌不過依照吳處長的說法都應該是經理相挺的結果吧"},{"start":439.9,"end":458.72,"text":"跟委員報告您這一段我們那個共識營裡面沒有發生他這個應該是指在在那個另外再請教董事長對吳姓處長的802有不具名的員工指出吳姓處長有一個同性的親戚擔任立法委員您知道是哪一位立法委員嗎"},{"start":460.122,"end":484.253,"text":"這個我不清楚你不清楚那也有民眾陳情說吳姓處長的父親是高階公務人員退休稱自己的後臺很硬人脈很廣那不但如此還揚言自己是吳秉瑞委員的親戚那對於這則爆料的真偽本席在此向董事長求證他們有親戚關係嗎這個過程我並不清楚所以董事長對這個霸凌案你沒有去了解嗎"},{"start":486.134,"end":511.176,"text":"有啊,我有了解這個霸凌案啊,我也很關心啊但是剛剛委員您提的是講說他的親戚是無姓立法委員,這個我真的...所以你也不知道臺鐵的霸凌案處理這件...處理這個案件的時候是不是有受到壓力嗎?我這邊是沒有啦好,董事長您要確認喔,因為這個案件已經以送監察院,如果最後查出來與您說的不同,您要怎麼來做負責?"},{"start":512.136,"end":514.859,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":811,"blocks":[["邱委員若華：（11時21分）主席好，謝謝主席，有請交通部陳部長還有臺鐵公司杜董事長。"],["主席：請陳部長、杜董事長。"],["邱委員若華：部長好。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["邱委員若華：部長，我們最近看到不只勞動部有傳出霸凌，在交通部也有幾起霸凌的事件，部長有強調程序不會延遲，然後也有承諾會接住每一個人。今天我們就臺鐵公司人力資源處吳姓處長霸凌案，本席要向杜董事長來一一了解，也請董事長一一來說明。我們先來看時間，這次臺鐵人力資源處吳姓處長疑似霸凌案，臺鐵的處理經過，有幾個問題要就教董事長，申訴人在去年112年6月29日就提出了不法侵害通知單；同年9月14號召開調查委員會，認定了有霸凌的行為，要請問董事長，臺鐵為何要等到申訴人在112年11月10號提出臺鐵不回復通報表的申訴之後，才向申訴人回函？"],["杜董事長微：這個部分，我們這邊表上講的是9月14號我們調查委員會認定以後，我們有通知雙方的當事人，因為通知雙方當事人以後，雙方都有提出申訴，我們要處理這個情形，所以才會有11月的這個結果。"],["邱委員若華：董事長，簽辦歷程需要花這麼長的時間嗎？為什麼這個霸凌案成立花了兩個月，可是推翻卻不到半個月？"],["杜董事長微：沒有講要推翻……"],["邱委員若華：可是它確實被推翻了。"],["杜董事長微：只是後面依據公務人員保障法的規定，因為他有提出申訴，所以我們就依據這個規定來妥慎處理。"],["邱委員若華：確實前面的霸凌案調查了這麼久，推翻成立結論卻這麼快，是前面的調查小組效率太差嗎？還是後面的調查小組草草了事？"],["杜董事長微：不是！不是！剛剛講了，因為雙方都有提申訴，所以我們在處理的過程中要很慎重、很仔細。"],["邱委員若華：這確實要很慎重、很仔細，我們看到今年5月7號的時候，保訓會也要求臺鐵兩個月內要做出適法的處理，然後臺鐵在7月16號的時候，要求延長回覆期限，延長期限過後，保訓會又分別在9月23號還有10月18號發文兩次，要求臺鐵來做回覆，可是臺鐵到了11月15號才回文，回文的內容僅敘述收到保訓會行文後的處理經過，以及另訂11月18號重啟調查會議。請問董事長，本案處理起來很困難嗎？是有什麼樣的困難？"],["杜董事長微：就是剛剛跟委員報告的，這個案件因為雙方都有各自的立場，所以我們很慎重……"],["邱委員若華：很慎重所以足足拖了半年？"],["杜董事長微：沒有！沒有！包括第二次我們重啟調查的調查委員會，包括委員的組成，還有包括雙方當事人都提供了資料，這都花了很多時間。"],["邱委員若華：花了很多時間，所以讓這位吳姓處長有時間申請調職到國發會嗎？還是臺鐵想要隱藏什麼？"],["杜董事長微：這個我不清楚，跟委員報告，沒有隱藏。"],["邱委員若華：現在國發會是不認這名吳姓的員工入職，所以目前的程序是暫緩了，請問董事長，這名吳姓員工調職暫緩之後，人會待在哪一個單位？"],["杜董事長微：目前還是在他原來的職務上。"],["邱委員若華：如果他之後沒有辦法到國發會，他繼續在臺鐵待著的話，還會讓他繼續在臺鐵職場霸凌嗎？"],["杜董事長微：跟委員報告，有沒有霸凌這件事情，我們是透過程序慎重地處理。"],["邱委員若華：確實有透過程序慎重地處理？"],["杜董事長微：對。"],["邱委員若華：OK，如果他繼續在臺鐵霸凌的話，那就是臺鐵應作為而不作為，因為臺鐵的霸凌案，本席也有去了解港務公司霸凌成立案之霸凌行為，我們相較港務公司和臺鐵公司，董事長可以從簡報中看到這兩個表格，分別為臺鐵在112年9月14號的時候，調查委員會的紀錄，還有港務公司霸凌成立案之霸凌行為，請問部長，您看到的簡報，臺鐵的霸凌行為，相較於港務公司來說，真的是有過之而無不及，港務公司的霸凌案成立，可是臺鐵公司卻不成立。請問部長，您認為臺鐵公司做出的決議合理嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，其實他們霸凌案的成立跟不成立，雙方當事人一定都有自己的權益，在審議的過程當中也有一定的機制在走，所以我必須要……"],["邱委員若華：確實要顧及雙方的權益，去年9月14號霸凌成立的決議，就遭臺鐵自己推翻了，請教董事長，推翻的理由是什麼，請您說明。"],["杜董事長微：就是因為雙方有提出申訴，然後依據公務人員保障法的規定，我們妥善處理，為了這個事情，因為很審慎，我們還成立了委員會，不是我們自己單純的……"],["邱委員若華：這邊也讓董事長了解被霸凌者然後還有其他基層員工也有指出，吳姓處長不滿員工的時候，會貶低、侮辱，還有頻退公文，以及咆哮方式來霸凌員工，並要求下屬下班還有假日要回訊息，甚至假日早晨po出下週天氣預報，下屬都要回答：收到，這麼神奇的理由！3年來已經有63個人離職了，專員也從10人減少到只剩2人，請問董事長，這麼多人離職，您有沒有去了解？臺鐵有沒有去了解？"],["杜董事長微：有，這個部分雙方當事人對於我們的調查委員會跟我們的申訴委員會，他們都有提供相對的資料，這是第一個；第二個，3年來63人離職這件事並不單純是因為工作環境壓力或者是怎樣，有各種的因素。"],["邱委員若華：董事長，問題是你們不改善工作環境，讓那麼多人沉默離職，這不是本末倒置嗎？我是說，你們不改善工作環境，讓這麼多人離職，你們有去檢討嗎？"],["杜董事長微：有，跟委員報告，我們的調查委員會跟後面調查結果出來以後，調查委員會的委員還有做了好幾項的建議，這些建議就是剛剛委員講的，包括環境還有……"],["邱委員若華：在這邊先請教董事長一個問題，上週五、六臺鐵在花蓮舉辦共識營，有46名的一級主管在現場，請問董事長，您有參加嗎？"],["杜董事長微：有，我有參加。"],["邱委員若華：這名吳姓處長有沒有去？"],["杜董事長微：處長好像沒有，但後來有，他是有參加晚上的……"],["邱委員若華：有爆料者說，吳處長抱怨霸凌案被產工糾纏，還在臺上感謝馮經理相挺，逆轉霸凌案，延宕回文保訓會，讓兩次審議霸凌案不過，依照吳處長的說法，都應該是經理相挺的結果吧？"],["杜董事長微：跟委員報告，您這一段在我們共識營裡面沒有發生，這個應該是指……"],["邱委員若華：另外再請教董事長，對於吳姓處長的霸凌案，有不具名的員工指出，吳姓處長有一個同姓的親戚擔任立法委員，您知道是哪一位立法委員嗎？"],["杜董事長微：這個我不清楚。"],["邱委員若華：你不清楚？也有民眾陳情說，吳姓處長的父親是高階公務人員退休，稱自己的後臺很硬、人脈很廣，不但如此，還揚言自己是吳秉叡委員的親戚，對於這則爆料的真偽，本席在此向董事長求證，他們有親戚關係嗎？"],["杜董事長微：這個過程我並不清楚。"],["邱委員若華：所以董事長對這個霸凌案沒有去了解嗎？"],["杜董事長微：有啊！我有了解這個霸凌案，我也很關心，但是剛剛委員提的是，他的親戚是吳姓立法委員，這個我真的……"],["邱委員若華：所以你不知道，也不知道臺鐵的霸凌案在處理這個案件的時候，是不是有受到壓力嗎？"],["杜董事長微：我這邊是沒有。"],["邱委員若華：董事長你要確認，因為這個案件已經移送監察院，如果最後查出來與您說的不同，你要怎麼來負責？"],["杜董事長微：不會，我都是據實以告。"],["邱委員若華：你都是據實以報？部長也擔任過民意代表，相信你從政的初衷，就是為了減少社會上不公不義的事，你也承諾會接住每一位員工，希望部長可以還給我們基層同仁一個安心、乾淨的工作環境。"],["陳部長世凱：這個部分我一定會詳查。"],["邱委員若華：OK，謝謝部長。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝邱若華委員。接下來請蔡其昌委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":334,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-14","speakers":["陳素月","林沛祥","李昆澤","林國成","何欣純","魯明哲","林俊憲","黃健豪","徐富癸","邱若華","蔡其昌","許智傑","羅廷瑋","王義川","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","張啓楷","游顥","廖先翔","蔡易餘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","葉元之","鍾佳濱"],"page_start":257,"meetingDate":["2024-12-09"],"gazette_id":"1140402","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140402_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部航港局單位預算；二、審查114年度中央政府總預\n算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管航港建設基金非營業預算；三、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於交通部主管臺灣港務股份有限公司營業預算；四、審查\n114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於交通部主管國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司營\n業預算；五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業\n基金─臺鐵局撥入資產及債務管理基金分預算【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1140402_00002"}}}