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\"這個潛藏的步驟他比較是去預設比方說如果是一次性的的給付的狀況發生所以我們很重要的事情是要避免這種恐慌性的的行為所以這裡面確實有財務機關部分也有大家怎麼樣在心裡給大家更多的安心的部分\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"潛\"}, {\"word\": \"藏\", \"start\": 704.516, \"end\": 704.936, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 704.936, \"end\": 705.217, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"步\", \"start\": 705.217, \"end\": 705.477, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"驟\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 705.477, \"end\": 705.617, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 705.617, \"end\": 705.877, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 705.877, \"end\": 706.017, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 706.017, \"end\": 706.438, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 706.438, \"end\": 706.898, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 706.898, \"end\": 707.038, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 707.038, \"end\": 707.159, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 707.159, \"end\": 707.279, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 707.279, \"end\": 707.399, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 707.399, \"end\": 707.519, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 707.519, \"end\": 707.699, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 707.699, \"end\": 707.979, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 707.979, \"end\": 708.76, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 708.76, \"end\": 709.201, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"付\", \"start\": 709.201, \"end\": 709.381, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 709.381, \"end\": 710.142, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 710.142, \"end\": 710.342, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 710.342, \"end\": 710.482, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 710.482, \"end\": 710.502, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 710.502, \"end\": 711.143, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 711.143, \"end\": 711.243, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 711.243, \"end\": 711.443, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 711.443, \"end\": 711.503, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 711.503, \"end\": 711.583, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 711.583, \"end\": 711.683, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 711.683, \"end\": 711.844, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 711.844, \"end\": 712.364, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 712.364, \"end\": 712.524, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"避\", \"start\": 712.524, \"end\": 712.664, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"免\", \"start\": 712.664, \"end\": 713.185, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"恐\", \"start\": 713.185, \"end\": 713.385, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"慌\", \"start\": 713.385, \"end\": 713.645, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 713.645, \"end\": 713.966, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 713.966, \"end\": 714.466, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 714.466, \"end\": 714.686, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 714.686, \"end\": 715.567, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 715.567, \"end\": 715.708, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 715.708, \"end\": 715.868, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 715.868, \"end\": 716.588, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 716.588, \"end\": 717.369, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"財\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 717.369, \"end\": 717.489, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 717.489, \"end\": 717.63, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 717.63, \"end\": 717.73, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 717.73, \"end\": 717.93, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 717.93, \"end\": 718.11, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 718.11, \"end\": 718.35, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 718.35, \"end\": 718.651, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 718.651, \"end\": 718.811, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 718.811, \"end\": 718.991, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 718.991, \"end\": 719.231, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 719.231, \"end\": 719.492, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 719.492, \"end\": 719.692, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 719.692, \"end\": 719.852, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 719.852, \"end\": 719.932, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 719.932, \"end\": 720.072, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 720.072, \"end\": 720.192, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 720.192, \"end\": 720.252, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 720.252, \"end\": 720.372, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 720.372, \"end\": 720.392, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 721.013, \"end\": 741.48, \"text\": \"所以整體來說政府的態度就是政府當然會負最終的責任我們把這個態度給講清楚而且有具體的行動來讓大家知道政府就是會負責才能夠比較能夠去避免就是說他其實這個所謂潛藏負債這個如果一次性的這個報充性的全部來請領但這個狀況是一個蠻極端的狀況那我們用各種方式來防止極端狀況\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 721.013, \"end\": 721.093, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 721.093, \"end\": 721.213, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 721.213, \"end\": 722.153, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 722.153, \"end\": 722.373, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 722.373, \"end\": 722.494, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 722.494, \"end\": 722.814, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"態\"}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 722.814, \"end\": 722.914, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 722.914, \"end\": 723.014, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 723.014, \"end\": 723.154, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 723.154, \"end\": 723.334, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 723.334, \"end\": 723.574, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 723.574, \"end\": 723.854, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"負\", \"start\": 723.854, \"end\": 724.054, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 724.054, \"end\": 724.394, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"終\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 724.394, \"end\": 724.754, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 724.754, \"end\": 724.914, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 724.914, \"end\": 725.114, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 725.114, \"end\": 725.615, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"態\"}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 725.615, \"end\": 726.135, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 726.135, \"end\": 726.415, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 726.415, \"end\": 726.855, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 726.855, \"end\": 726.975, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 726.975, \"end\": 727.075, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 727.075, \"end\": 727.235, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 727.235, \"end\": 727.515, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 727.515, \"end\": 727.655, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 727.655, \"end\": 728.656, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 728.656, \"end\": 728.796, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 728.796, \"end\": 728.996, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 728.996, \"end\": 729.096, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 729.096, \"end\": 729.276, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 729.276, \"end\": 729.476, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 729.476, \"end\": 729.616, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 729.616, \"end\": 729.736, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 729.736, \"end\": 730.296, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"負\", \"start\": 730.296, \"end\": 730.796, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 730.796, \"end\": 730.936, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 730.936, \"end\": 731.396, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 731.396, \"end\": 731.657, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 731.657, \"end\": 731.897, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 731.897, \"end\": 732.077, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"避\", \"start\": 732.077, \"end\": 732.197, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"免\", \"start\": 732.197, \"end\": 732.377, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 732.377, \"end\": 732.597, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 732.597, \"end\": 733.177, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 733.177, \"end\": 733.397, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 733.397, \"end\": 733.937, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 733.937, \"end\": 734.257, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": \"潛\"}, {\"word\": \"藏\", \"start\": 734.257, \"end\": 734.417, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"負\", \"start\": 734.417, \"end\": 735.698, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"債\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 735.698, \"end\": 735.838, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 735.838, \"end\": 735.938, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"一\", 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{\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 739.559, \"end\": 739.999, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"蠻\"}, {\"word\": \"極\"}, {\"word\": \"端\", \"start\": 739.999, \"end\": 740.079, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 740.079, \"end\": 740.179, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 740.179, \"end\": 740.259, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 740.259, \"end\": 740.319, \"score\": 0.664}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 740.319, \"end\": 740.359, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 740.359, \"end\": 740.499, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 740.499, \"end\": 740.659, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 740.659, \"end\": 740.9, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 740.9, \"end\": 741.24, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"止\", \"start\": 741.24, \"end\": 741.46, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"極\"}, {\"word\": \"端\", \"start\": 741.46, \"end\": 741.48, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"況\"}]}, {\"start\": 746.302, \"end\": 747.283, \"text\": \"一套勞基法可以適用\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 746.302, \"end\": 746.482, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"套\", \"start\": 746.482, \"end\": 746.622, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 746.622, \"end\": 746.642, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 746.642, \"end\": 746.803, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 746.803, \"end\": 746.943, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 746.943, \"end\": 747.263, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"適\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 747.263, \"end\": 747.283, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 763.427, \"end\": 763.647, \"text\": \"一套勞動計劃。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 763.427, \"end\": 763.627, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"套\", \"start\": 763.627, \"end\": 763.647, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}]}, {\"start\": 780.618, \"end\": 802.839, \"text\": \"不可能嘛對不對勞基法當然它立法跟立定的目的其實它是對於這些勞工相關的權益的保障一個最基本的最基本的要求啦但是各行各業確實可能會有些讓他的差別但是勞基法設定目的它是一個最基本最底線的要求沒有勞基法是霸王條款什麼人要拿出勞基法大家都亂部主義嘛\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 780.618, \"end\": 780.898, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 780.898, \"end\": 781.019, \"score\": 0.703}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 781.019, \"end\": 781.199, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 781.199, \"end\": 781.579, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 781.579, \"end\": 782.44, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 782.44, \"end\": 782.62, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 782.62, \"end\": 783.04, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 783.04, \"end\": 783.521, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 783.521, \"end\": 784.322, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": 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\"end\": 973.157, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"華\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 973.157, \"end\": 973.297, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 973.297, \"end\": 973.477, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 973.477, \"end\": 973.577, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 973.577, \"end\": 973.617, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 973.617, \"end\": 973.798, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 973.798, \"end\": 973.978, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 973.978, \"end\": 974.058, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 974.058, \"end\": 974.078, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"：\"}, {\"word\": \"僅\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:13,743 --> 00:00:20,230\n謝謝主席我請部長還有我們勞動基金運用局書局長請部長跟局長\n\n2\n00:00:27,549 --> 00:00:43,984\n副委員長。副委員長。我今天要問你兩個問題。第一個問題是問比較大條的。為了說什麼基金、什麼額外佣金什麼的,那我都沒興趣啦。那有很多人在問啊。我現在要問的就是說你們勞動部下面的\n\n3\n00:00:45,999 --> 00:01:03,754\n新致勞工退休基金4兆5千多億就致勞工退休基金1兆零400多億這兩個加起來就5.5兆還有勞工保險基金1兆零956億這個剛剛你的報告書裡面我看到\n\n4\n00:01:08,226 --> 00:01:15,092\n就業保險基金1723億勞職災的保險基金365億基建工資電廠193億所以他不東東加起來是7兆5000多億那你今年編450億又要委託這邊代操作那我請問局長這個\n\n5\n00:01:35,141 --> 00:01:52,241\n這個操作是你在handle嗎?那你是用什麼委員會或是用什麼東東來操作?委員提到的是我們最近一次公告要委託國內的投信來投資國內的股票那這個是我們每年度都會有一個\n\n6\n00:01:54,483 --> 00:02:13,379\n每年都會有一個委託投資操作的一個招標案這樣那我們這個是採公開評選的方式我們有外部的委員然後有一定有相關的一個程序這樣所以有一個委員會在操作還是不是我們評選的時候有評選委員9位\n\n7\n00:02:18,652 --> 00:02:24,236\n並顯這些代操縱的監控公司：投信來投標的業者：這個有沒有弊端?如果有虧損誰要負責?然後裡面是所有的七兆多全部都是國內跟國外投資嗎?\n\n8\n00:02:42,551 --> 00:03:06,380\n不是,報告委員我們所監管的基金規模是7.5兆超過那我們的投資是全球多元佈局包括國內的市場國外的市場國內的股票國際全球的股票市場然後還有債券這個是你們委託的這些債操作公司不是你們有自己在操作嗎\n\n9\n00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:28,120\n有報告委員我們有國內的自營團隊我們有國外的自營團隊我們也有委託國內的投信業者來投資操作我看到的是國內跟國外差不多占一半一半那最近像俄羅斯戰爭在投資俄羅斯那邊都卡死了嗎\n\n10\n00:03:29,881 --> 00:03:33,243\n是,報告委員我們自營的團隊對俄羅斯並沒有自營的部位那主要是因為我們是全球布局我們有很多的國外委託的案子\n\n11\n00:03:49,850 --> 00:04:14,802\n那國外的資產管理公司他們我們有一些設計是相對報酬所謂相對報酬就是有一些指標那他可能有一些被動的會去追蹤到各個國家的一個成分股所以我們是其實是被動持有俄羅斯的部分那這個部分我們金額也已經逐漸下降因為我們也要求說國際資產管理公司要能夠來積極處理\n\n12\n00:04:18,464 --> 00:04:30,074\n我看俄羅斯那個是5、6、10億台幣吧還是2點多美金嗎?欸這有人消息給我這樣,資料給我,我說我今天被他問得清澈耶。是是是。啊對你,你現在去外面,啊我們台南國來的,有的是什麼福利啦、什麼富華投顧啦、什麼富邦啦,亂搞嘛。內線交易嘛。然後你們的錢去玩嘛。那一、一、一、有沒有這回事?\n\n13\n00:04:45,487 --> 00:05:12,292\n報告委員我們如果說我們受委託的頭信有違反契約的規定或者違反法令的規定我們都一定嚴懲而且我們過去最近媒體報導的那幾家事實上都沒有涉及我們勞動基金的一個委託案那個是包括他們的共同基金等等的因為我們這個部分也會跟金管會很密切的一個合作如果有類似的情形發生你會洗澡多加上郵政儲金\n\n14\n00:05:15,352 --> 00:05:28,824\n五、四、五、五兆左右那加起來就是我們的國安基金還有一個公務人員的十幾兆捏不定十幾條捏你要講那個三、五百萬的講那個是在揮灑啦這都是恐怖啦這會不會有閉端嗎?那如果虧損什麼要有錢?虧損的國務賽\n\n15\n00:05:39,806 --> 00:05:54,546\n那個書案當然這個我們拿這個基金來做投資當然這幾年賺錢當然我們不能說他絕對不會賠可是我覺得重點事情是說我自己也要求第一個是希望能夠專業操作\n\n16\n00:05:55,948 --> 00:06:17,109\n第一個事情是它的專業性要怎麼能夠提高。第二個事情是就像剛剛委員關注的怎麼防避。在防避的部分能夠多加強的部分這也是我請我們基金應用局其實很重要在操作這是這麼龐大的資產最重要的原則啦。所以郵政儲計那一塊你們沒有管嗎?公保軍保的那個你們沒有管嗎?\n\n17\n00:06:17,109 --> 00:06:19,372\n那另外全部有一個基金局對。\n\n18\n00:06:19,972 --> 00:06:44,722\n那在維護我們股市的安定國內的副盤這個你們是你們自己操作還是由我們也沒有副盤那個行政院下命令你們就開始沒有沒有我們就像剛剛部長所提到我們都是秉持專業來進行投資操作對於委外的部分也同樣的要求我們自營團隊也是同樣的要求我們都是要秉持專業然後來進行相關的操作我們並沒有\n\n19\n00:06:45,802 --> 00:06:56,868\n像是那個護法頭顧有好幾個人被判4年啊判了10個月等等那是操作你們的2020年2020年是遠東百貨的部分\n\n20\n00:07:03,132 --> 00:07:12,665\n有門牌或部門嗎?所以這個部長死的喪利、死不喪利?部長能督促你們嗎?我對你們也不太顧慮,亂步一步,搞不好會出事。那個...那個...所以其實現在...\n\n21\n00:07:19,096 --> 00:07:46,055\n我們的基金運用局在相關的防避尤其之前發生了幾次的弊端我有之前發生幾次弊端所以後來蘇局長也才到這個工作裡面來任職那我其實已經跟我們基金運用局說我們最重要的原則就是專業然後要防止弊端的發生這部分我們希望能夠做得更好這樣子但是這是最重要的原則局長你把這幾年來一些那個\n\n22\n00:07:47,645 --> 00:07:48,286\n公務及基金預算．僅\n\n23\n00:08:12,027 --> 00:08:21,045\n沒有怎麼可能這個我們全部都是要依法了對這不可能那個中央銀行操作外匯我們的外匯存底現在差不多50005000多億喔美金喔\n\n24\n00:08:23,294 --> 00:08:44,689\n那美金帳帳他們都賺錢我們中央銀行是可以分的喔我們拿獎金的喔我們中央銀行以前是一月單月領單薪雙月領雙薪欸你知不知道我們不會去分這個二月四月就領兩個月啊一月三月就領一個月所以一年是領12加618個月\n\n25\n00:08:47,471 --> 00:08:51,938\n我們是新任機關所以沒有所以要怎麼給你們鼓勵啊如果賺錢的話\n\n26\n00:08:58,684 --> 00:09:03,428\n三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務．僅\n\n27\n00:09:28,108 --> 00:09:48,433\n二、審查中華民國11屆第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重\n\n28\n00:09:50,193 --> 00:10:09,571\n這是怎麼審查的?怎麼審一下給我聽一下?都亂講啊。什麼一年補簽也也是勞動部操作的一部分,也是勞動部的業績一部分。大家都亂講一天。你是怎麼審的?13兆是怎麼算的?什麼時候要破產了?每天就在那裡勤洗勒索,奇怪欸。\n\n29\n00:10:13,700 --> 00:10:33,603\n是委員公務員報告在講說那個潛藏負債的部分那潛藏負債的意思是說是把一百年後才會發現掉潛藏負債是說曾經加保的還沒有發生對健保不會倒嘛老闆不會倒啊\n\n30\n00:10:35,735 --> 00:11:01,526\n你這個潛藏負債你告訴我關鍵字你告訴我13兆是怎麼算的啦?不要把人打到動作幼稚園耶。就是說被保險的年資跟投保薪資因為我們勞工保險是世代互助的社會保險嘛那採的是部分提存準備嘛所以產生潛藏負債是公共年金普遍的現象\n\n31\n00:11:02,901 --> 00:11:21,762\n那所以他會隨著被保險年制跟投保薪資增長而增加他的潛藏負債會增加那所以潛藏負債是未來可能會起伏的但是他不會一次一次才實現了所以他會在未來逐步支出而且如果沒有符合請你的條件他也不會來請\n\n32\n00:11:23,942 --> 00:11:41,554\n我們整個政府的負債比例我看也都是在很良性的範圍內不像美國已經超過全國GDP的幾倍日本是幾倍我們都還好嘛我們的負債比例不剩也不是算我們整個國家23兆GDP的也不多啊\n\n33\n00:11:44,516 --> 00:12:00,392\n這個潛藏的步驟他比較是去預設比方說如果是一次性的的給付的狀況發生所以我們很重要的事情是要避免這種恐慌性的的行為所以這裡面確實有財務機關部分也有大家怎麼樣在心裡給大家更多的安心的部分\n\n34\n00:12:01,013 --> 00:12:21,480\n所以整體來說政府的態度就是政府當然會負最終的責任我們把這個態度給講清楚而且有具體的行動來讓大家知道政府就是會負責才能夠比較能夠去避免就是說他其實這個所謂潛藏負債這個如果一次性的這個報充性的全部來請領但這個狀況是一個蠻極端的狀況那我們用各種方式來防止極端狀況\n\n35\n00:12:26,302 --> 00:12:27,283\n一套勞基法可以適用\n\n36\n00:12:43,427 --> 00:12:43,647\n一套勞動計劃。\n\n37\n00:13:00,618 --> 00:13:22,839\n不可能嘛對不對勞基法當然它立法跟立定的目的其實它是對於這些勞工相關的權益的保障一個最基本的最基本的要求啦但是各行各業確實可能會有些讓他的差別但是勞基法設定目的它是一個最基本最底線的要求沒有勞基法是霸王條款什麼人要拿出勞基法大家都亂部主義嘛\n\n38\n00:13:24,544 --> 00:13:39,995\n醫生：不管現在也跟住院醫師跟勞動部勞資法,主治醫師怎麼勞動,全世界也沒人敢,你怎麼算事件,像我們主席那些年輕人,總有病人幫他出血了,什麼就病了,那個要怎麼算,所以這個還是要考慮,還是要檢討啦。\n\n39\n00:13:43,817 --> 00:14:06,087\n那現在因為我們東港那邊遠洋漁船那麼多我跟部長報告齁你有我排個那個考察齁我們到屏東去那個遠洋漁工譬如說一條船是CT4的CT5的100多噸的那個裡面的空間那我們的船是這樣從東港開出去然後上面只有三個人船長大戶輪機長\n\n40\n00:14:10,769 --> 00:14:27,343\n其他移工0然後船就開到印尼然後那些移工印尼的移工就一個一個跳上來上來可能10個20個啊就出力了啊他們大一定都會重建嘛事後拉扎稅都在船都在那條船上嘛\n\n41\n00:14:28,683 --> 00:14:39,549\n他住的地方跟那個船長住的地方差不多耶船長是在船長室裡面你下去我帶你去看他船長室是5T鐵窗耶\n\n42\n00:14:42,912 --> 00:14:43,512\n公務及基金預算：審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算：僅\n\n43\n00:15:02,799 --> 00:15:03,300\n公務及基金預算．僅\n\n44\n00:15:22,957 --> 00:15:44,626\n這個不同的業別確實會有一些情境的差別但是從勞動部的立場來說的話我們還是希望對勞動勞工只要是勞動者這個他基本的該保障的部分該保護的部分我們還是必須還是要盡力去做那當然啊不要對那些船東啦不然遠洋業者啦對那些船長喊打喊殺每天都是喊打喊殺動作很邪惡\n\n45\n00:15:47,387 --> 00:15:47,667\n公務及基金預算．僅\n\n46\n00:16:12,316 --> 00:16:14,078\n公務及基金預算：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算：僅\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n13743\t20230\t謝謝主席我請部長還有我們勞動基金運用局書局長請部長跟局長\n27549\t43984\t副委員長。副委員長。我今天要問你兩個問題。第一個問題是問比較大條的。為了說什麼基金、什麼額外佣金什麼的,那我都沒興趣啦。那有很多人在問啊。我現在要問的就是說你們勞動部下面的\n45999\t63754\t新致勞工退休基金4兆5千多億就致勞工退休基金1兆零400多億這兩個加起來就5.5兆還有勞工保險基金1兆零956億這個剛剛你的報告書裡面我看到\n68226\t75092\t就業保險基金1723億勞職災的保險基金365億基建工資電廠193億所以他不東東加起來是7兆5000多億那你今年編450億又要委託這邊代操作那我請問局長這個\n95141\t112241\t這個操作是你在handle嗎?那你是用什麼委員會或是用什麼東東來操作?委員提到的是我們最近一次公告要委託國內的投信來投資國內的股票那這個是我們每年度都會有一個\n114483\t133379\t每年都會有一個委託投資操作的一個招標案這樣那我們這個是採公開評選的方式我們有外部的委員然後有一定有相關的一個程序這樣所以有一個委員會在操作還是不是我們評選的時候有評選委員9位\n138652\t144236\t並顯這些代操縱的監控公司：投信來投標的業者：這個有沒有弊端?如果有虧損誰要負責?然後裡面是所有的七兆多全部都是國內跟國外投資嗎?\n162551\t186380\t不是,報告委員我們所監管的基金規模是7.5兆超過那我們的投資是全球多元佈局包括國內的市場國外的市場國內的股票國際全球的股票市場然後還有債券這個是你們委託的這些債操作公司不是你們有自己在操作嗎\n186840\t208120\t有報告委員我們有國內的自營團隊我們有國外的自營團隊我們也有委託國內的投信業者來投資操作我看到的是國內跟國外差不多占一半一半那最近像俄羅斯戰爭在投資俄羅斯那邊都卡死了嗎\n209881\t213243\t是,報告委員我們自營的團隊對俄羅斯並沒有自營的部位那主要是因為我們是全球布局我們有很多的國外委託的案子\n229850\t254802\t那國外的資產管理公司他們我們有一些設計是相對報酬所謂相對報酬就是有一些指標那他可能有一些被動的會去追蹤到各個國家的一個成分股所以我們是其實是被動持有俄羅斯的部分那這個部分我們金額也已經逐漸下降因為我們也要求說國際資產管理公司要能夠來積極處理\n258464\t270074\t我看俄羅斯那個是5、6、10億台幣吧還是2點多美金嗎?欸這有人消息給我這樣,資料給我,我說我今天被他問得清澈耶。 是是是。啊對你,你現在去外面,啊我們台南國來的,有的是什麼福利啦、什麼富華投顧啦、什麼富邦啦,亂搞嘛。內線交易嘛。然後你們的錢去玩嘛。那一、一、一、有沒有這回事?\n285487\t312292\t報告委員我們如果說我們受委託的頭信有違反契約的規定或者違反法令的規定我們都一定嚴懲而且我們過去最近媒體報導的那幾家事實上都沒有涉及我們勞動基金的一個委託案那個是包括他們的共同基金等等的因為我們這個部分也會跟金管會很密切的一個合作如果有類似的情形發生你會洗澡多加上郵政儲金\n315352\t328824\t五、四、五、五兆左右那加起來就是我們的國安基金還有一個公務人員的十幾兆捏不定十幾條捏你要講那個三、五百萬的講那個是在揮灑啦這都是恐怖啦這會不會有閉端嗎?那如果虧損什麼要有錢?虧損的國務賽\n339806\t354546\t那個書案當然這個我們拿這個基金來做投資當然這幾年賺錢當然我們不能說他絕對不會賠可是我覺得重點事情是說我自己也要求第一個是希望能夠專業操作\n355948\t377109\t第一個事情是它的專業性要怎麼能夠提高。第二個事情是就像剛剛委員關注的怎麼防避。在防避的部分能夠多加強的部分這也是我請我們基金應用局其實很重要在操作這是這麼龐大的資產最重要的原則啦。 所以郵政儲計那一塊你們沒有管嗎?公保軍保的那個你們沒有管嗎?\n377109\t379372\t那另外全部有一個基金局對。\n379972\t404722\t那在維護我們股市的安定國內的副盤這個你們是你們自己操作還是由我們也沒有副盤那個行政院下命令你們就開始沒有沒有我們就像剛剛部長所提到我們都是秉持專業來進行投資操作對於委外的部分也同樣的要求我們自營團隊也是同樣的要求我們都是要秉持專業然後來進行相關的操作我們並沒有\n405802\t416868\t像是那個護法頭顧有好幾個人被判4年啊判了10個月等等那是操作你們的2020年2020年是遠東百貨的部分\n423132\t432665\t有門牌或部門嗎?所以這個部長死的喪利、死不喪利?部長能督促你們嗎?我對你們也不太顧慮,亂步一步,搞不好會出事。那個...那個...所以其實現在...\n439096\t466055\t我們的基金運用局在相關的防避尤其之前發生了幾次的弊端我有之前發生幾次弊端所以後來蘇局長也才到這個工作裡面來任職那我其實已經跟我們基金運用局說我們最重要的原則就是專業然後要防止弊端的發生這部分我們希望能夠做得更好這樣子但是這是最重要的原則局長你把這幾年來一些那個\n467645\t468286\t公務及基金預算．僅\n492027\t501045\t沒有怎麼可能這個我們全部都是要依法了對這不可能那個中央銀行操作外匯我們的外匯存底現在差不多50005000多億喔美金喔\n503294\t524689\t那美金帳帳他們都賺錢我們中央銀行是可以分的喔我們拿獎金的喔我們中央銀行以前是一月單月領單薪雙月領雙薪欸你知不知道我們不會去分這個二月四月就領兩個月啊一月三月就領一個月所以一年是領12加618個月\n527471\t531938\t我們是新任機關所以沒有所以要怎麼給你們鼓勵啊如果賺錢的話\n538684\t543428\t三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務．僅\n568108\t588433\t二、審查中華民國11屆第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重\n590193\t609571\t這是怎麼審查的?怎麼審一下給我聽一下?都亂講啊。什麼一年補簽也也是勞動部操作的一部分,也是勞動部的業績一部分。大家都亂講一天。你是怎麼審的?13兆是怎麼算的?什麼時候要破產了?每天就在那裡勤洗勒索,奇怪欸。\n613700\t633603\t是委員公務員報告在講說那個潛藏負債的部分那潛藏負債的意思是說是把一百年後才會發現掉潛藏負債是說曾經加保的還沒有發生對健保不會倒嘛老闆不會倒啊\n635735\t661526\t你這個潛藏負債你告訴我關鍵字你告訴我13兆是怎麼算的啦?不要把人打到動作幼稚園耶。就是說被保險的年資跟投保薪資因為我們勞工保險是世代互助的社會保險嘛那採的是部分提存準備嘛所以產生潛藏負債是公共年金普遍的現象\n662901\t681762\t那所以他會隨著被保險年制跟投保薪資增長而增加他的潛藏負債會增加那所以潛藏負債是未來可能會起伏的但是他不會一次一次才實現了所以他會在未來逐步支出而且如果沒有符合請你的條件他也不會來請\n683942\t701554\t我們整個政府的負債比例我看也都是在很良性的範圍內不像美國已經超過全國GDP的幾倍日本是幾倍我們都還好嘛我們的負債比例不剩也不是算我們整個國家23兆GDP的也不多啊\n704516\t720392\t這個潛藏的步驟他比較是去預設比方說如果是一次性的的給付的狀況發生所以我們很重要的事情是要避免這種恐慌性的的行為所以這裡面確實有財務機關部分也有大家怎麼樣在心裡給大家更多的安心的部分\n721013\t741480\t所以整體來說政府的態度就是政府當然會負最終的責任我們把這個態度給講清楚而且有具體的行動來讓大家知道政府就是會負責才能夠比較能夠去避免就是說他其實這個所謂潛藏負債這個如果一次性的這個報充性的全部來請領但這個狀況是一個蠻極端的狀況那我們用各種方式來防止極端狀況\n746302\t747283\t一套勞基法可以適用\n763427\t763647\t一套勞動計劃。\n780618\t802839\t不可能嘛對不對勞基法當然它立法跟立定的目的其實它是對於這些勞工相關的權益的保障一個最基本的最基本的要求啦但是各行各業確實可能會有些讓他的差別但是勞基法設定目的它是一個最基本最底線的要求沒有勞基法是霸王條款什麼人要拿出勞基法大家都亂部主義嘛\n804544\t819995\t醫生：不管現在也跟住院醫師跟勞動部勞資法,主治醫師怎麼勞動,全世界也沒人敢,你怎麼算事件,像我們主席那些年輕人,總有病人幫他出血了,什麼就病了,那個要怎麼算,所以這個還是要考慮,還是要檢討啦。\n823817\t846087\t那現在因為我們東港那邊遠洋漁船那麼多我跟部長報告齁你有我排個那個考察齁我們到屏東去那個遠洋漁工譬如說一條船是CT4的CT5的100多噸的那個裡面的空間那我們的船是這樣從東港開出去然後上面只有三個人船長大戶輪機長\n850769\t867343\t其他移工0然後船就開到印尼然後那些移工印尼的移工就一個一個跳上來上來可能10個20個啊就出力了啊他們大一定都會重建嘛事後拉扎稅都在船都在那條船上嘛\n868683\t879549\t他住的地方跟那個船長住的地方差不多耶船長是在船長室裡面你下去我帶你去看他船長室是5T鐵窗耶\n882912\t883512\t公務及基金預算：審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算：僅\n902799\t903300\t公務及基金預算．僅\n922957\t944626\t這個不同的業別確實會有一些情境的差別但是從勞動部的立場來說的話我們還是希望對勞動勞工只要是勞動者這個他基本的該保障的部分該保護的部分我們還是必須還是要盡力去做那當然啊不要對那些船東啦不然遠洋業者啦對那些船長喊打喊殺每天都是喊打喊殺動作很邪惡\n947387\t947667\t公務及基金預算．僅\n972316\t974078\t公務及基金預算：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算：僅\n","txt":"謝謝主席我請部長還有我們勞動基金運用局書局長請部長跟局長\n副委員長。副委員長。我今天要問你兩個問題。第一個問題是問比較大條的。為了說什麼基金、什麼額外佣金什麼的,那我都沒興趣啦。那有很多人在問啊。我現在要問的就是說你們勞動部下面的\n新致勞工退休基金4兆5千多億就致勞工退休基金1兆零400多億這兩個加起來就5.5兆還有勞工保險基金1兆零956億這個剛剛你的報告書裡面我看到\n就業保險基金1723億勞職災的保險基金365億基建工資電廠193億所以他不東東加起來是7兆5000多億那你今年編450億又要委託這邊代操作那我請問局長這個\n這個操作是你在handle嗎?那你是用什麼委員會或是用什麼東東來操作?委員提到的是我們最近一次公告要委託國內的投信來投資國內的股票那這個是我們每年度都會有一個\n每年都會有一個委託投資操作的一個招標案這樣那我們這個是採公開評選的方式我們有外部的委員然後有一定有相關的一個程序這樣所以有一個委員會在操作還是不是我們評選的時候有評選委員9位\n並顯這些代操縱的監控公司：投信來投標的業者：這個有沒有弊端?如果有虧損誰要負責?然後裡面是所有的七兆多全部都是國內跟國外投資嗎?\n不是,報告委員我們所監管的基金規模是7.5兆超過那我們的投資是全球多元佈局包括國內的市場國外的市場國內的股票國際全球的股票市場然後還有債券這個是你們委託的這些債操作公司不是你們有自己在操作嗎\n有報告委員我們有國內的自營團隊我們有國外的自營團隊我們也有委託國內的投信業者來投資操作我看到的是國內跟國外差不多占一半一半那最近像俄羅斯戰爭在投資俄羅斯那邊都卡死了嗎\n是,報告委員我們自營的團隊對俄羅斯並沒有自營的部位那主要是因為我們是全球布局我們有很多的國外委託的案子\n那國外的資產管理公司他們我們有一些設計是相對報酬所謂相對報酬就是有一些指標那他可能有一些被動的會去追蹤到各個國家的一個成分股所以我們是其實是被動持有俄羅斯的部分那這個部分我們金額也已經逐漸下降因為我們也要求說國際資產管理公司要能夠來積極處理\n我看俄羅斯那個是5、6、10億台幣吧還是2點多美金嗎?欸這有人消息給我這樣,資料給我,我說我今天被他問得清澈耶。 是是是。啊對你,你現在去外面,啊我們台南國來的,有的是什麼福利啦、什麼富華投顧啦、什麼富邦啦,亂搞嘛。內線交易嘛。然後你們的錢去玩嘛。那一、一、一、有沒有這回事?\n報告委員我們如果說我們受委託的頭信有違反契約的規定或者違反法令的規定我們都一定嚴懲而且我們過去最近媒體報導的那幾家事實上都沒有涉及我們勞動基金的一個委託案那個是包括他們的共同基金等等的因為我們這個部分也會跟金管會很密切的一個合作如果有類似的情形發生你會洗澡多加上郵政儲金\n五、四、五、五兆左右那加起來就是我們的國安基金還有一個公務人員的十幾兆捏不定十幾條捏你要講那個三、五百萬的講那個是在揮灑啦這都是恐怖啦這會不會有閉端嗎?那如果虧損什麼要有錢?虧損的國務賽\n那個書案當然這個我們拿這個基金來做投資當然這幾年賺錢當然我們不能說他絕對不會賠可是我覺得重點事情是說我自己也要求第一個是希望能夠專業操作\n第一個事情是它的專業性要怎麼能夠提高。第二個事情是就像剛剛委員關注的怎麼防避。在防避的部分能夠多加強的部分這也是我請我們基金應用局其實很重要在操作這是這麼龐大的資產最重要的原則啦。 所以郵政儲計那一塊你們沒有管嗎?公保軍保的那個你們沒有管嗎?\n那另外全部有一個基金局對。\n那在維護我們股市的安定國內的副盤這個你們是你們自己操作還是由我們也沒有副盤那個行政院下命令你們就開始沒有沒有我們就像剛剛部長所提到我們都是秉持專業來進行投資操作對於委外的部分也同樣的要求我們自營團隊也是同樣的要求我們都是要秉持專業然後來進行相關的操作我們並沒有\n像是那個護法頭顧有好幾個人被判4年啊判了10個月等等那是操作你們的2020年2020年是遠東百貨的部分\n有門牌或部門嗎?所以這個部長死的喪利、死不喪利?部長能督促你們嗎?我對你們也不太顧慮,亂步一步,搞不好會出事。那個...那個...所以其實現在...\n我們的基金運用局在相關的防避尤其之前發生了幾次的弊端我有之前發生幾次弊端所以後來蘇局長也才到這個工作裡面來任職那我其實已經跟我們基金運用局說我們最重要的原則就是專業然後要防止弊端的發生這部分我們希望能夠做得更好這樣子但是這是最重要的原則局長你把這幾年來一些那個\n公務及基金預算．僅\n沒有怎麼可能這個我們全部都是要依法了對這不可能那個中央銀行操作外匯我們的外匯存底現在差不多50005000多億喔美金喔\n那美金帳帳他們都賺錢我們中央銀行是可以分的喔我們拿獎金的喔我們中央銀行以前是一月單月領單薪雙月領雙薪欸你知不知道我們不會去分這個二月四月就領兩個月啊一月三月就領一個月所以一年是領12加618個月\n我們是新任機關所以沒有所以要怎麼給你們鼓勵啊如果賺錢的話\n三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務．僅\n二、審查中華民國11屆第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重\n這是怎麼審查的?怎麼審一下給我聽一下?都亂講啊。什麼一年補簽也也是勞動部操作的一部分,也是勞動部的業績一部分。大家都亂講一天。你是怎麼審的?13兆是怎麼算的?什麼時候要破產了?每天就在那裡勤洗勒索,奇怪欸。\n是委員公務員報告在講說那個潛藏負債的部分那潛藏負債的意思是說是把一百年後才會發現掉潛藏負債是說曾經加保的還沒有發生對健保不會倒嘛老闆不會倒啊\n你這個潛藏負債你告訴我關鍵字你告訴我13兆是怎麼算的啦?不要把人打到動作幼稚園耶。就是說被保險的年資跟投保薪資因為我們勞工保險是世代互助的社會保險嘛那採的是部分提存準備嘛所以產生潛藏負債是公共年金普遍的現象\n那所以他會隨著被保險年制跟投保薪資增長而增加他的潛藏負債會增加那所以潛藏負債是未來可能會起伏的但是他不會一次一次才實現了所以他會在未來逐步支出而且如果沒有符合請你的條件他也不會來請\n我們整個政府的負債比例我看也都是在很良性的範圍內不像美國已經超過全國GDP的幾倍日本是幾倍我們都還好嘛我們的負債比例不剩也不是算我們整個國家23兆GDP的也不多啊\n這個潛藏的步驟他比較是去預設比方說如果是一次性的的給付的狀況發生所以我們很重要的事情是要避免這種恐慌性的的行為所以這裡面確實有財務機關部分也有大家怎麼樣在心裡給大家更多的安心的部分\n所以整體來說政府的態度就是政府當然會負最終的責任我們把這個態度給講清楚而且有具體的行動來讓大家知道政府就是會負責才能夠比較能夠去避免就是說他其實這個所謂潛藏負債這個如果一次性的這個報充性的全部來請領但這個狀況是一個蠻極端的狀況那我們用各種方式來防止極端狀況\n一套勞基法可以適用\n一套勞動計劃。\n不可能嘛對不對勞基法當然它立法跟立定的目的其實它是對於這些勞工相關的權益的保障一個最基本的最基本的要求啦但是各行各業確實可能會有些讓他的差別但是勞基法設定目的它是一個最基本最底線的要求沒有勞基法是霸王條款什麼人要拿出勞基法大家都亂部主義嘛\n醫生：不管現在也跟住院醫師跟勞動部勞資法,主治醫師怎麼勞動,全世界也沒人敢,你怎麼算事件,像我們主席那些年輕人,總有病人幫他出血了,什麼就病了,那個要怎麼算,所以這個還是要考慮,還是要檢討啦。\n那現在因為我們東港那邊遠洋漁船那麼多我跟部長報告齁你有我排個那個考察齁我們到屏東去那個遠洋漁工譬如說一條船是CT4的CT5的100多噸的那個裡面的空間那我們的船是這樣從東港開出去然後上面只有三個人船長大戶輪機長\n其他移工0然後船就開到印尼然後那些移工印尼的移工就一個一個跳上來上來可能10個20個啊就出力了啊他們大一定都會重建嘛事後拉扎稅都在船都在那條船上嘛\n他住的地方跟那個船長住的地方差不多耶船長是在船長室裡面你下去我帶你去看他船長室是5T鐵窗耶\n公務及基金預算：審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算：僅\n公務及基金預算．僅\n這個不同的業別確實會有一些情境的差別但是從勞動部的立場來說的話我們還是希望對勞動勞工只要是勞動者這個他基本的該保障的部分該保護的部分我們還是必須還是要盡力去做那當然啊不要對那些船東啦不然遠洋業者啦對那些船長喊打喊殺每天都是喊打喊殺動作很邪惡\n公務及基金預算．僅\n公務及基金預算：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算：僅\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:13.743 --> 00:20.230\n謝謝主席我請部長還有我們勞動基金運用局書局長請部長跟局長\n\n00:27.549 --> 00:43.984\n副委員長。副委員長。我今天要問你兩個問題。第一個問題是問比較大條的。為了說什麼基金、什麼額外佣金什麼的,那我都沒興趣啦。那有很多人在問啊。我現在要問的就是說你們勞動部下面的\n\n00:45.999 --> 01:03.754\n新致勞工退休基金4兆5千多億就致勞工退休基金1兆零400多億這兩個加起來就5.5兆還有勞工保險基金1兆零956億這個剛剛你的報告書裡面我看到\n\n01:08.226 --> 01:15.092\n就業保險基金1723億勞職災的保險基金365億基建工資電廠193億所以他不東東加起來是7兆5000多億那你今年編450億又要委託這邊代操作那我請問局長這個\n\n01:35.141 --> 01:52.241\n這個操作是你在handle嗎?那你是用什麼委員會或是用什麼東東來操作?委員提到的是我們最近一次公告要委託國內的投信來投資國內的股票那這個是我們每年度都會有一個\n\n01:54.483 --> 02:13.379\n每年都會有一個委託投資操作的一個招標案這樣那我們這個是採公開評選的方式我們有外部的委員然後有一定有相關的一個程序這樣所以有一個委員會在操作還是不是我們評選的時候有評選委員9位\n\n02:18.652 --> 02:24.236\n並顯這些代操縱的監控公司：投信來投標的業者：這個有沒有弊端?如果有虧損誰要負責?然後裡面是所有的七兆多全部都是國內跟國外投資嗎?\n\n02:42.551 --> 03:06.380\n不是,報告委員我們所監管的基金規模是7.5兆超過那我們的投資是全球多元佈局包括國內的市場國外的市場國內的股票國際全球的股票市場然後還有債券這個是你們委託的這些債操作公司不是你們有自己在操作嗎\n\n03:06.840 --> 03:28.120\n有報告委員我們有國內的自營團隊我們有國外的自營團隊我們也有委託國內的投信業者來投資操作我看到的是國內跟國外差不多占一半一半那最近像俄羅斯戰爭在投資俄羅斯那邊都卡死了嗎\n\n03:29.881 --> 03:33.243\n是,報告委員我們自營的團隊對俄羅斯並沒有自營的部位那主要是因為我們是全球布局我們有很多的國外委託的案子\n\n03:49.850 --> 04:14.802\n那國外的資產管理公司他們我們有一些設計是相對報酬所謂相對報酬就是有一些指標那他可能有一些被動的會去追蹤到各個國家的一個成分股所以我們是其實是被動持有俄羅斯的部分那這個部分我們金額也已經逐漸下降因為我們也要求說國際資產管理公司要能夠來積極處理\n\n04:18.464 --> 04:30.074\n我看俄羅斯那個是5、6、10億台幣吧還是2點多美金嗎?欸這有人消息給我這樣,資料給我,我說我今天被他問得清澈耶。是是是。啊對你,你現在去外面,啊我們台南國來的,有的是什麼福利啦、什麼富華投顧啦、什麼富邦啦,亂搞嘛。內線交易嘛。然後你們的錢去玩嘛。那一、一、一、有沒有這回事?\n\n04:45.487 --> 05:12.292\n報告委員我們如果說我們受委託的頭信有違反契約的規定或者違反法令的規定我們都一定嚴懲而且我們過去最近媒體報導的那幾家事實上都沒有涉及我們勞動基金的一個委託案那個是包括他們的共同基金等等的因為我們這個部分也會跟金管會很密切的一個合作如果有類似的情形發生你會洗澡多加上郵政儲金\n\n05:15.352 --> 05:28.824\n五、四、五、五兆左右那加起來就是我們的國安基金還有一個公務人員的十幾兆捏不定十幾條捏你要講那個三、五百萬的講那個是在揮灑啦這都是恐怖啦這會不會有閉端嗎?那如果虧損什麼要有錢?虧損的國務賽\n\n05:39.806 --> 05:54.546\n那個書案當然這個我們拿這個基金來做投資當然這幾年賺錢當然我們不能說他絕對不會賠可是我覺得重點事情是說我自己也要求第一個是希望能夠專業操作\n\n05:55.948 --> 06:17.109\n第一個事情是它的專業性要怎麼能夠提高。第二個事情是就像剛剛委員關注的怎麼防避。在防避的部分能夠多加強的部分這也是我請我們基金應用局其實很重要在操作這是這麼龐大的資產最重要的原則啦。所以郵政儲計那一塊你們沒有管嗎?公保軍保的那個你們沒有管嗎?\n\n06:17.109 --> 06:19.372\n那另外全部有一個基金局對。\n\n06:19.972 --> 06:44.722\n那在維護我們股市的安定國內的副盤這個你們是你們自己操作還是由我們也沒有副盤那個行政院下命令你們就開始沒有沒有我們就像剛剛部長所提到我們都是秉持專業來進行投資操作對於委外的部分也同樣的要求我們自營團隊也是同樣的要求我們都是要秉持專業然後來進行相關的操作我們並沒有\n\n06:45.802 --> 06:56.868\n像是那個護法頭顧有好幾個人被判4年啊判了10個月等等那是操作你們的2020年2020年是遠東百貨的部分\n\n07:03.132 --> 07:12.665\n有門牌或部門嗎?所以這個部長死的喪利、死不喪利?部長能督促你們嗎?我對你們也不太顧慮,亂步一步,搞不好會出事。那個...那個...所以其實現在...\n\n07:19.096 --> 07:46.055\n我們的基金運用局在相關的防避尤其之前發生了幾次的弊端我有之前發生幾次弊端所以後來蘇局長也才到這個工作裡面來任職那我其實已經跟我們基金運用局說我們最重要的原則就是專業然後要防止弊端的發生這部分我們希望能夠做得更好這樣子但是這是最重要的原則局長你把這幾年來一些那個\n\n07:47.645 --> 07:48.286\n公務及基金預算．僅\n\n08:12.027 --> 08:21.045\n沒有怎麼可能這個我們全部都是要依法了對這不可能那個中央銀行操作外匯我們的外匯存底現在差不多50005000多億喔美金喔\n\n08:23.294 --> 08:44.689\n那美金帳帳他們都賺錢我們中央銀行是可以分的喔我們拿獎金的喔我們中央銀行以前是一月單月領單薪雙月領雙薪欸你知不知道我們不會去分這個二月四月就領兩個月啊一月三月就領一個月所以一年是領12加618個月\n\n08:47.471 --> 08:51.938\n我們是新任機關所以沒有所以要怎麼給你們鼓勵啊如果賺錢的話\n\n08:58.684 --> 09:03.428\n三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務．僅\n\n09:28.108 --> 09:48.433\n二、審查中華民國11屆第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重\n\n09:50.193 --> 10:09.571\n這是怎麼審查的?怎麼審一下給我聽一下?都亂講啊。什麼一年補簽也也是勞動部操作的一部分,也是勞動部的業績一部分。大家都亂講一天。你是怎麼審的?13兆是怎麼算的?什麼時候要破產了?每天就在那裡勤洗勒索,奇怪欸。\n\n10:13.700 --> 10:33.603\n是委員公務員報告在講說那個潛藏負債的部分那潛藏負債的意思是說是把一百年後才會發現掉潛藏負債是說曾經加保的還沒有發生對健保不會倒嘛老闆不會倒啊\n\n10:35.735 --> 11:01.526\n你這個潛藏負債你告訴我關鍵字你告訴我13兆是怎麼算的啦?不要把人打到動作幼稚園耶。就是說被保險的年資跟投保薪資因為我們勞工保險是世代互助的社會保險嘛那採的是部分提存準備嘛所以產生潛藏負債是公共年金普遍的現象\n\n11:02.901 --> 11:21.762\n那所以他會隨著被保險年制跟投保薪資增長而增加他的潛藏負債會增加那所以潛藏負債是未來可能會起伏的但是他不會一次一次才實現了所以他會在未來逐步支出而且如果沒有符合請你的條件他也不會來請\n\n11:23.942 --> 11:41.554\n我們整個政府的負債比例我看也都是在很良性的範圍內不像美國已經超過全國GDP的幾倍日本是幾倍我們都還好嘛我們的負債比例不剩也不是算我們整個國家23兆GDP的也不多啊\n\n11:44.516 --> 12:00.392\n這個潛藏的步驟他比較是去預設比方說如果是一次性的的給付的狀況發生所以我們很重要的事情是要避免這種恐慌性的的行為所以這裡面確實有財務機關部分也有大家怎麼樣在心裡給大家更多的安心的部分\n\n12:01.013 --> 12:21.480\n所以整體來說政府的態度就是政府當然會負最終的責任我們把這個態度給講清楚而且有具體的行動來讓大家知道政府就是會負責才能夠比較能夠去避免就是說他其實這個所謂潛藏負債這個如果一次性的這個報充性的全部來請領但這個狀況是一個蠻極端的狀況那我們用各種方式來防止極端狀況\n\n12:26.302 --> 12:27.283\n一套勞基法可以適用\n\n12:43.427 --> 12:43.647\n一套勞動計劃。\n\n13:00.618 --> 13:22.839\n不可能嘛對不對勞基法當然它立法跟立定的目的其實它是對於這些勞工相關的權益的保障一個最基本的最基本的要求啦但是各行各業確實可能會有些讓他的差別但是勞基法設定目的它是一個最基本最底線的要求沒有勞基法是霸王條款什麼人要拿出勞基法大家都亂部主義嘛\n\n13:24.544 --> 13:39.995\n醫生：不管現在也跟住院醫師跟勞動部勞資法,主治醫師怎麼勞動,全世界也沒人敢,你怎麼算事件,像我們主席那些年輕人,總有病人幫他出血了,什麼就病了,那個要怎麼算,所以這個還是要考慮,還是要檢討啦。\n\n13:43.817 --> 14:06.087\n那現在因為我們東港那邊遠洋漁船那麼多我跟部長報告齁你有我排個那個考察齁我們到屏東去那個遠洋漁工譬如說一條船是CT4的CT5的100多噸的那個裡面的空間那我們的船是這樣從東港開出去然後上面只有三個人船長大戶輪機長\n\n14:10.769 --> 14:27.343\n其他移工0然後船就開到印尼然後那些移工印尼的移工就一個一個跳上來上來可能10個20個啊就出力了啊他們大一定都會重建嘛事後拉扎稅都在船都在那條船上嘛\n\n14:28.683 --> 14:39.549\n他住的地方跟那個船長住的地方差不多耶船長是在船長室裡面你下去我帶你去看他船長室是5T鐵窗耶\n\n14:42.912 --> 14:43.512\n公務及基金預算：審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算：僅\n\n15:02.799 --> 15:03.300\n公務及基金預算．僅\n\n15:22.957 --> 15:44.626\n這個不同的業別確實會有一些情境的差別但是從勞動部的立場來說的話我們還是希望對勞動勞工只要是勞動者這個他基本的該保障的部分該保護的部分我們還是必須還是要盡力去做那當然啊不要對那些船東啦不然遠洋業者啦對那些船長喊打喊殺每天都是喊打喊殺動作很邪惡\n\n15:47.387 --> 15:47.667\n公務及基金預算．僅\n\n16:12.316 --> 16:14.078\n公務及基金預算：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算：僅\n\n","segments":[{"start":13.743,"end":20.23,"text":"謝謝主席我請部長還有我們勞動基金運用局書局長請部長跟局長"},{"start":27.549,"end":43.984,"text":"副委員長。副委員長。我今天要問你兩個問題。第一個問題是問比較大條的。為了說什麼基金、什麼額外佣金什麼的,那我都沒興趣啦。那有很多人在問啊。我現在要問的就是說你們勞動部下面的"},{"start":45.999,"end":63.754,"text":"新致勞工退休基金4兆5千多億就致勞工退休基金1兆零400多億這兩個加起來就5.5兆還有勞工保險基金1兆零956億這個剛剛你的報告書裡面我看到"},{"start":68.226,"end":75.092,"text":"就業保險基金1723億勞職災的保險基金365億基建工資電廠193億所以他不東東加起來是7兆5000多億那你今年編450億又要委託這邊代操作那我請問局長這個"},{"start":95.141,"end":112.241,"text":"這個操作是你在handle嗎?那你是用什麼委員會或是用什麼東東來操作?委員提到的是我們最近一次公告要委託國內的投信來投資國內的股票那這個是我們每年度都會有一個"},{"start":114.483,"end":133.379,"text":"每年都會有一個委託投資操作的一個招標案這樣那我們這個是採公開評選的方式我們有外部的委員然後有一定有相關的一個程序這樣所以有一個委員會在操作還是不是我們評選的時候有評選委員9位"},{"start":138.652,"end":144.236,"text":"並顯這些代操縱的監控公司：投信來投標的業者：這個有沒有弊端?如果有虧損誰要負責?然後裡面是所有的七兆多全部都是國內跟國外投資嗎?"},{"start":162.551,"end":186.38,"text":"不是,報告委員我們所監管的基金規模是7.5兆超過那我們的投資是全球多元佈局包括國內的市場國外的市場國內的股票國際全球的股票市場然後還有債券這個是你們委託的這些債操作公司不是你們有自己在操作嗎"},{"start":186.84,"end":208.12,"text":"有報告委員我們有國內的自營團隊我們有國外的自營團隊我們也有委託國內的投信業者來投資操作我看到的是國內跟國外差不多占一半一半那最近像俄羅斯戰爭在投資俄羅斯那邊都卡死了嗎"},{"start":209.881,"end":213.243,"text":"是,報告委員我們自營的團隊對俄羅斯並沒有自營的部位那主要是因為我們是全球布局我們有很多的國外委託的案子"},{"start":229.85,"end":254.802,"text":"那國外的資產管理公司他們我們有一些設計是相對報酬所謂相對報酬就是有一些指標那他可能有一些被動的會去追蹤到各個國家的一個成分股所以我們是其實是被動持有俄羅斯的部分那這個部分我們金額也已經逐漸下降因為我們也要求說國際資產管理公司要能夠來積極處理"},{"start":258.464,"end":270.074,"text":"我看俄羅斯那個是5、6、10億台幣吧還是2點多美金嗎?欸這有人消息給我這樣,資料給我,我說我今天被他問得清澈耶。 是是是。啊對你,你現在去外面,啊我們台南國來的,有的是什麼福利啦、什麼富華投顧啦、什麼富邦啦,亂搞嘛。內線交易嘛。然後你們的錢去玩嘛。那一、一、一、有沒有這回事?"},{"start":285.487,"end":312.292,"text":"報告委員我們如果說我們受委託的頭信有違反契約的規定或者違反法令的規定我們都一定嚴懲而且我們過去最近媒體報導的那幾家事實上都沒有涉及我們勞動基金的一個委託案那個是包括他們的共同基金等等的因為我們這個部分也會跟金管會很密切的一個合作如果有類似的情形發生你會洗澡多加上郵政儲金"},{"start":315.352,"end":328.824,"text":"五、四、五、五兆左右那加起來就是我們的國安基金還有一個公務人員的十幾兆捏不定十幾條捏你要講那個三、五百萬的講那個是在揮灑啦這都是恐怖啦這會不會有閉端嗎?那如果虧損什麼要有錢?虧損的國務賽"},{"start":339.806,"end":354.546,"text":"那個書案當然這個我們拿這個基金來做投資當然這幾年賺錢當然我們不能說他絕對不會賠可是我覺得重點事情是說我自己也要求第一個是希望能夠專業操作"},{"start":355.948,"end":377.109,"text":"第一個事情是它的專業性要怎麼能夠提高。第二個事情是就像剛剛委員關注的怎麼防避。在防避的部分能夠多加強的部分這也是我請我們基金應用局其實很重要在操作這是這麼龐大的資產最重要的原則啦。 所以郵政儲計那一塊你們沒有管嗎?公保軍保的那個你們沒有管嗎?"},{"start":377.109,"end":379.372,"text":"那另外全部有一個基金局對。"},{"start":379.972,"end":404.722,"text":"那在維護我們股市的安定國內的副盤這個你們是你們自己操作還是由我們也沒有副盤那個行政院下命令你們就開始沒有沒有我們就像剛剛部長所提到我們都是秉持專業來進行投資操作對於委外的部分也同樣的要求我們自營團隊也是同樣的要求我們都是要秉持專業然後來進行相關的操作我們並沒有"},{"start":405.802,"end":416.868,"text":"像是那個護法頭顧有好幾個人被判4年啊判了10個月等等那是操作你們的2020年2020年是遠東百貨的部分"},{"start":423.132,"end":432.665,"text":"有門牌或部門嗎?所以這個部長死的喪利、死不喪利?部長能督促你們嗎?我對你們也不太顧慮,亂步一步,搞不好會出事。那個...那個...所以其實現在..."},{"start":439.096,"end":466.055,"text":"我們的基金運用局在相關的防避尤其之前發生了幾次的弊端我有之前發生幾次弊端所以後來蘇局長也才到這個工作裡面來任職那我其實已經跟我們基金運用局說我們最重要的原則就是專業然後要防止弊端的發生這部分我們希望能夠做得更好這樣子但是這是最重要的原則局長你把這幾年來一些那個"},{"start":467.645,"end":468.286,"text":"公務及基金預算．僅"},{"start":492.027,"end":501.045,"text":"沒有怎麼可能這個我們全部都是要依法了對這不可能那個中央銀行操作外匯我們的外匯存底現在差不多50005000多億喔美金喔"},{"start":503.294,"end":524.689,"text":"那美金帳帳他們都賺錢我們中央銀行是可以分的喔我們拿獎金的喔我們中央銀行以前是一月單月領單薪雙月領雙薪欸你知不知道我們不會去分這個二月四月就領兩個月啊一月三月就領一個月所以一年是領12加618個月"},{"start":527.471,"end":531.938,"text":"我們是新任機關所以沒有所以要怎麼給你們鼓勵啊如果賺錢的話"},{"start":538.684,"end":543.428,"text":"三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務．僅"},{"start":568.108,"end":588.433,"text":"二、審查中華民國11屆第12會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重建中心11屆第12會期社會福利及重"},{"start":590.193,"end":609.571,"text":"這是怎麼審查的?怎麼審一下給我聽一下?都亂講啊。什麼一年補簽也也是勞動部操作的一部分,也是勞動部的業績一部分。大家都亂講一天。你是怎麼審的?13兆是怎麼算的?什麼時候要破產了?每天就在那裡勤洗勒索,奇怪欸。"},{"start":613.7,"end":633.603,"text":"是委員公務員報告在講說那個潛藏負債的部分那潛藏負債的意思是說是把一百年後才會發現掉潛藏負債是說曾經加保的還沒有發生對健保不會倒嘛老闆不會倒啊"},{"start":635.735,"end":661.526,"text":"你這個潛藏負債你告訴我關鍵字你告訴我13兆是怎麼算的啦?不要把人打到動作幼稚園耶。就是說被保險的年資跟投保薪資因為我們勞工保險是世代互助的社會保險嘛那採的是部分提存準備嘛所以產生潛藏負債是公共年金普遍的現象"},{"start":662.901,"end":681.762,"text":"那所以他會隨著被保險年制跟投保薪資增長而增加他的潛藏負債會增加那所以潛藏負債是未來可能會起伏的但是他不會一次一次才實現了所以他會在未來逐步支出而且如果沒有符合請你的條件他也不會來請"},{"start":683.942,"end":701.554,"text":"我們整個政府的負債比例我看也都是在很良性的範圍內不像美國已經超過全國GDP的幾倍日本是幾倍我們都還好嘛我們的負債比例不剩也不是算我們整個國家23兆GDP的也不多啊"},{"start":704.516,"end":720.392,"text":"這個潛藏的步驟他比較是去預設比方說如果是一次性的的給付的狀況發生所以我們很重要的事情是要避免這種恐慌性的的行為所以這裡面確實有財務機關部分也有大家怎麼樣在心裡給大家更多的安心的部分"},{"start":721.013,"end":741.48,"text":"所以整體來說政府的態度就是政府當然會負最終的責任我們把這個態度給講清楚而且有具體的行動來讓大家知道政府就是會負責才能夠比較能夠去避免就是說他其實這個所謂潛藏負債這個如果一次性的這個報充性的全部來請領但這個狀況是一個蠻極端的狀況那我們用各種方式來防止極端狀況"},{"start":746.302,"end":747.283,"text":"一套勞基法可以適用"},{"start":763.427,"end":763.647,"text":"一套勞動計劃。"},{"start":780.618,"end":802.839,"text":"不可能嘛對不對勞基法當然它立法跟立定的目的其實它是對於這些勞工相關的權益的保障一個最基本的最基本的要求啦但是各行各業確實可能會有些讓他的差別但是勞基法設定目的它是一個最基本最底線的要求沒有勞基法是霸王條款什麼人要拿出勞基法大家都亂部主義嘛"},{"start":804.544,"end":819.995,"text":"醫生：不管現在也跟住院醫師跟勞動部勞資法,主治醫師怎麼勞動,全世界也沒人敢,你怎麼算事件,像我們主席那些年輕人,總有病人幫他出血了,什麼就病了,那個要怎麼算,所以這個還是要考慮,還是要檢討啦。"},{"start":823.817,"end":846.087,"text":"那現在因為我們東港那邊遠洋漁船那麼多我跟部長報告齁你有我排個那個考察齁我們到屏東去那個遠洋漁工譬如說一條船是CT4的CT5的100多噸的那個裡面的空間那我們的船是這樣從東港開出去然後上面只有三個人船長大戶輪機長"},{"start":850.769,"end":867.343,"text":"其他移工0然後船就開到印尼然後那些移工印尼的移工就一個一個跳上來上來可能10個20個啊就出力了啊他們大一定都會重建嘛事後拉扎稅都在船都在那條船上嘛"},{"start":868.683,"end":879.549,"text":"他住的地方跟那個船長住的地方差不多耶船長是在船長室裡面你下去我帶你去看他船長室是5T鐵窗耶"},{"start":882.912,"end":883.512,"text":"公務及基金預算：審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算：僅"},{"start":902.799,"end":903.3,"text":"公務及基金預算．僅"},{"start":922.957,"end":944.626,"text":"這個不同的業別確實會有一些情境的差別但是從勞動部的立場來說的話我們還是希望對勞動勞工只要是勞動者這個他基本的該保障的部分該保護的部分我們還是必須還是要盡力去做那當然啊不要對那些船東啦不然遠洋業者啦對那些船長喊打喊殺每天都是喊打喊殺動作很邪惡"},{"start":947.387,"end":947.667,"text":"公務及基金預算．僅"},{"start":972.316,"end":974.078,"text":"公務及基金預算：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算：僅"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":617,"blocks":[["蘇委員清泉：（11時27分）謝謝主席，我請部長，還有勞動基金運用局蘇局長。"],["主席：請部長跟局長。"],["洪部長申翰：蘇委員好。"],["蘇委員清泉：部長好。我今天問你兩個問題，第一個問題是問比較大的，有人說什麼基金什麼亂花錢，那些我都沒興趣，已經有很多人問了，我現在問的就是勞動部下面的新制勞工退休基金四兆五千多億，嚇死人了！舊制勞工退休基金一兆四百多億，這兩個加起來就5.5兆，還有勞工保險基金1兆956億，這個剛剛你的報告書裡面我有看到，就業保險基金1,723億，勞職災的保險基金365億，積欠工資墊償193億，所以夯不啷噹加起來是七兆五千多億，你今年編450億又要委託代操作，請問局長，這個操作是你在handle嗎？你是用什麼委員會或者用什麼來操作？"],["蘇局長郁卿：委員提到的是我們最近一次公告要委託國內的投信來投資國內的股票，這個是我們每年度都會有一個……"],["蘇委員清泉：撥出來的嘛！是每一年拿出來的嘛！"],["蘇局長郁卿：每年都會有一個委託投資操作的招標案，這個是採公開評選的方式，有外部的委員，然後有一定的相關程序。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以是有一個委員會在操作還是……"],["蘇局長郁卿：不是，我們評選的時候有評選委員9位，然後……"],["蘇委員清泉：是評選這些代操作的金控公司或者是……"],["蘇局長郁卿：投信來投標的業者。"],["蘇委員清泉：部長，你有在管這個嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：沒有。"],["蘇委員清泉：這個錢這麼多，你讓他們……會亂搞嗎？"],["蘇局長郁卿：報告委員，不會。"],["蘇委員清泉：這個有沒有弊端？如果有虧損誰要負責？然後你們是所有七兆多全部都是國內跟國外投資嗎？"],["蘇局長郁卿：不是，報告委員，我們所經管的基金規模超過7.5兆，我們的投資是全球多元布局，包括國內的市場、國外的市場、國內的股票、國際全球的股票市場，然後還有債券，還有另類的投資。"],["蘇委員清泉：這個是你們委託的這些代操作公司……"],["蘇局長郁卿：不是。"],["蘇委員清泉：你們有自己在操作嗎？"],["蘇局長郁卿：有，報告委員，我們有國內的自營團隊、國外的自營團隊，有委託國內的投信業者來投資操作，也有國外的。"],["蘇委員清泉：好，我看到的是國內跟國外差不多各占一半一半。"],["蘇局長郁卿：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：最近俄烏戰爭，投資俄羅斯那邊的都卡死了嘛，那邊的回得來嗎？"],["蘇局長郁卿：報告委員……"],["蘇委員清泉：很多錢都被美國凍結了，給歐盟拿去，要把那些錢拿來做烏克蘭的重建費用。"],["蘇局長郁卿：報告委員，我們自營的團隊對俄羅斯並沒有自營的部位，主要是因為我們是全球布局，我們有很多國外委託的案子，國外的資產管理公司他們有一些設計是相對報酬，所謂相對報酬就是有一些指標，他可能有一些是被動的會去追蹤到各個國家的成份股，所以我們其實是被動持有俄羅斯的部分，這個部分我們金額也已經逐漸下降，因為我們也要求受託機構國際資產管理公司要積極處理。"],["蘇委員清泉：我看俄羅斯那個是五、六十億臺幣吧？二點多億美金！這是有人給我消息、給我資料的耶，所以我今天特別要來問清楚。"],["蘇局長郁卿：是、是、是。"],["蘇委員清泉：第二，你現在去外面，我們臺灣國內有什麼復華投顧啦、富邦啦，亂搞嘛！內線交易嘛！拿你們的錢去玩嘛！有沒有這回事？"],["蘇局長郁卿：報告委員，如果受委託的投信違反契約規定或者違反法令規定，我們都一定嚴懲，最近媒體報導的那幾家事實上都沒有涉及勞動基金的委託案，那個是包括他們的共同基金等等的，因為這個部分我們也會跟金管會很密切的合作，如果有類似的情形發生……"],["蘇委員清泉：你的七兆多加上郵政儲金5兆左右，加起來就是我們的國安基金，還有一個公務人員的，十幾兆耶！部長，十幾兆耶！你說的三、五百萬那是在說什麼？這才是恐怖啦！這會亂搞嗎？這有弊端嗎？如果虧損誰要負責？虧損的話不就「糊牛屎」了嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：蘇委員，當然我們拿這個基金來做投資……"],["蘇委員清泉：是對的。"],["洪部長申翰：最主要是賺錢嘛！對不對？這幾年是賺錢，當然我們不能說它絕對不會賠。"],["蘇委員清泉：對。"],["洪部長申翰：可是我覺得重點是，我自己也要求，第一個是希望能夠專業操作，專業性要怎麼樣提高；第二件事情是就像剛剛委員關注的怎麼防弊，在防弊的部分能夠多加強，這也是我請我們基金應用局在操作這麼龐大資產最重要的原則。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以郵政儲金那一塊你們沒有管嗎？"],["蘇局長郁卿：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：公保、軍保那個你們沒有管嘛！"],["蘇局長郁卿：對，銓敘部另外有一個基金局。"],["蘇委員清泉：在維護我們股市安定、國內護盤，這個你們是自己操作還是由……"],["蘇局長郁卿：我們也沒有護盤，那個是國安基金……"],["蘇委員清泉：行政院下命令你們就開始……"],["蘇局長郁卿：沒有、沒有，就像剛剛部長所提到，我們都是秉持專業來進行投資操作，對於委外的部分也是同樣的要求，對我們的自營團隊也都是同樣的要求，都是要秉持專業來進行相關的操作，我們並沒有……"],["蘇委員清泉：上次那個復華投顧有好幾個人被判4年、判10個月等等，那是操作你們2020年的……"],["蘇局長郁卿：2020年是遠東百貨的部分。"],["蘇委員清泉：遠東百貨的部分嘛！"],["蘇局長郁卿：對。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以……"],["蘇局長郁卿：這個都要求他們要立即賠償。"],["蘇委員清泉：這個部分部長使得上力、使不上力？部長能督促你們嗎？"],["蘇局長郁卿：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：部長你不要被矇在鼓裡，亂搞一場，到後來會出事耶！"],["洪部長申翰：蘇委員，其實現在我們的基金應用局在相關的防弊，尤其之前發生了幾次的弊端，所以後來蘇局長才到這個工作來任職，我其實已經跟基金應用局說我們最重要的原則就是專業，然後要防止弊端的發生，這部分我們希望能夠做得更好，這是最重要的原則。"],["蘇委員清泉：蘇局長你把這幾年來一些書面資料給我，好不好？我要比對、比對。"],["蘇局長郁卿：績效還是……"],["蘇委員清泉：就是投資的概括就好了，然後有什麼弊端要講出來。"],["洪部長申翰：我們就把這幾年這個基金投資的一些概況提供給蘇委員，好不好？"],["蘇委員清泉：對。然後有賺錢的話你們有沒有分？"],["蘇局長郁卿：沒有。"],["蘇委員清泉：部長有沒有分？沒有？"],["洪部長申翰：怎麼可能！我們全部都是要依法，這不可能。"],["蘇委員清泉：中央銀行操作外匯，我們的外匯存底現在差不多五千多億美金喔！美金上漲他們就賺錢，中央銀行是可以分的喔，有拿獎金的喔！"],["蘇局長郁卿：我們沒有。"],["蘇委員清泉：中央銀行以前是單月領單薪，雙月領雙薪，你知不知道？部長你不知道吧？"],["洪部長申翰：我們不會去分這個。"],["蘇委員清泉：2月、4月就領2個月，1月、3月就領1個月，所以中央銀行一年是領12加6共18個月。"],["洪部長申翰：我們是行政機關。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以你們沒有分？"],["洪部長申翰：沒有。"],["蘇委員清泉：沒有分，所以要怎麼給你們鼓勵啊？如果賺錢的話，要想一想啊！我覺得這個……"],["洪部長申翰：我覺得這幾年確實賺錢，所以我們也希望給同仁更多的肯定跟鼓勵，但是賺錢我覺得這對整體，比如勞保基金等等，其實對大家來說這是一件好事，可是重要的還是因為這裡面都是公務員，依法行政、依法執行，如果有好的效益，我們會在部內看可以怎麼樣給大家更多的獎勵。"],["蘇委員清泉：對啦！"],["洪部長申翰：但不是分潤啦！不可能，我們是公務員，沒有辦法做到像剛才蘇委員說的那樣分潤。"],["蘇委員清泉：好。再來一個問題就是勞保基金說現在負債13兆，一下子說11兆、一下子說13兆、一下子又說是多少，部長，這是在情緒勒索還是在恐嚇？這是怎麼算出來的？也算給我聽聽看，都亂講，說什麼1年補一千多億是勞保操作的一部分，也是勞動部業績的一部分，大家都亂講一通，你是怎麼算的？13兆是怎麼算的？說在什麼什麼時候就要破產了，每天都在情緒勒索，奇怪耶！"],["陳司長美女：跟委員報告，那個是在講潛藏負債的部分，潛藏負債的意思是把……"],["蘇委員清泉：100年後才會發現叫潛藏負債喔。"],["陳司長美女：不是，是說曾經加保的……"],["蘇委員清泉：我們全部死光了還沒有發生。"],["陳司長美女：對。"],["蘇委員清泉：健保不會倒嘛！勞保也不會倒啊！這個潛藏負債你跟我說key point──你跟我說13兆是怎麼算的？你不要把我們大家當做幼稚園。"],["陳司長美女：就是把被保險的年資跟投保薪資……因為勞工保險是世代互助的社會保險，採的是部分提存準備，所以產生潛藏負債是公共年金普遍的現象，它會隨著被保險年資跟投保薪資增長而增加，它的潛藏負債會增加，所以潛藏負債是未來可能會給付的，但是它不會一次實現，它會在未來逐步支出，而且如果沒有符合請領的條件他也不會來申請。"],["蘇委員清泉：我們整個政府的負債比例我看也都是在很良性的範圍內，不像美國已經超過全國GDP的幾倍、日本是幾倍，我們都還好嘛。"],["陳司長美女：是、是、是。"],["蘇委員清泉：我們的負債比例percent占整個國家23兆的GDP也不多啊！"],["洪部長申翰：蘇委員，這個潛藏負債比較是去預設如果一次性給付的狀況發生，所以我們很重要的事情是要避免這種恐慌性的行為，這裡面確實有財務精算的部分，也有怎麼樣在心理上給大家更多的安心的部分。"],["蘇委員清泉：對啦！"],["洪部長申翰：所以整體來說政府的態度就是政府當然會負最終的責任，我們把這個態度給講清楚，而且有具體的行動來讓大家知道政府就是會負責，才比較能夠去避免這個所謂潛藏負債一次性、暴衝性的全部來請領，但這個狀況是一個蠻極端的狀況，我們要用各種方式來防止這種極端的狀況。"],["蘇委員清泉：這是不可能的事情嘛，健保也常常喊要倒、要倒，罵一罵之後現在健保比較不敢亂講了，如果你覺得錢不夠就漲價就是了，對不對？","最後一個問題我問你，部長，一套勞基法可以適用Uber的外送員、坐辦公室的、勞工的、大太陽下綁鐵的，還有我們醫師，主治醫師要值班，像我們主席這樣一天到晚三更半夜跑去看病人，這個有可能嗎？用一套勞基法？不可能嘛，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：當然勞基法立法跟立定的目的其實是對於勞工相關權益保障的一個最基本的要求，各行各業確實可能會有一些樣態的差別，但是勞基法設定目的是一個最基本、最底線的要求。"],["蘇委員清泉：沒有喔！勞基法是霸王條款，什麼人只要拿出勞基法，大家都亂搞一通。醫生的部分，搞到現在也只敢把住院醫師納入勞基法，主治醫師要怎麼納入？全世界也沒人敢。你要怎麼算時間？像我們主席那麼認真，重要的病人半夜出血或是怎樣他就衝來了，那要怎麼算？所以這個還是要考慮，還是要檢討。","現在因為我們東港那邊遠洋漁船那麼多，我跟部長報告，我排個考察我們到屏東去，那個遠洋漁工，譬如一條CT4、CT5的船一百多噸，那個裡面的空間，我們的船是這樣從東港開出去，然後上面只有3個人，就是船長、大副、輪機長，其他漁工是零！然後船就開到印尼，然後那些印尼的漁工就一個一個跳上來，可能上來10個、20個就出去了。他們一定住在船上嘛，吃喝拉撒睡都在那條船上，他住的地方跟船長住的地方差不多耶，船長是在船長室裡面，你下去我帶你去看，船長室有鐵窗，他是關在裡面，裡面還有槍耶，因為他怕晚上被人家幹掉丟到海裡，所以船長住的地方跟船員住的地方都一樣，可能有比較大間一點。住在那裡物質條件就不好，工時要怎樣釐清？有時候半夜在收繩捆，那個你也在算；吃的部分是有啦，船長也吃一樣的，所以這樣你還那麼苛刻，而美國在那邊胡說八道說什麼我們虐待在勞工，一些綠色組織也是這樣胡說八道，部長你的看法是怎樣？"],["洪部長申翰：雖然不同的業別確實會有一些情境的差別，但是從勞動部的立場來說，我們還是希望對勞工，只要是勞動者基本該保障的部分、該保護的部分，我們還是要盡力去做。"],["蘇委員清泉：那當然啦！不要對那些船東、遠洋業者、對那些船長喊打喊殺，每天都是喊打喊殺，把他們當做很邪惡，不然你吃的魚要從哪裡來？都不出去捕魚，你會有魚可吃嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我們沒有對那個喊打喊殺，我要說勞基法的適用跟勞基法的目的還是對於勞工最基本的保障去做一個規範性的要求，我們當然知道業別上面有不同，可是其實勞基法很多部分是照顧勞工工作權益的底線。"],["蘇委員清泉：這一塊要注意。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：對勞基法的部分可能的對象、施展，你要弄的話都要case by case，不要這樣一以概之，好不好？部長加油。"],["洪部長申翰：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝蘇委員的發言，謝謝部長。","下一位請陳培瑜委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":196,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-13","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","王育敏","涂權吉","盧縣一","陳瑩","蘇清泉","陳培瑜","林淑芬","賴士葆","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","洪孟楷","羅廷瑋","麥玉珍","楊曜","王正旭","黃國昌","張啓楷","劉建國","翁曉玲","王鴻薇","張雅琳"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-09"],"gazette_id":"1140403","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140403_00002","1140403_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案\n關於勞動部主管預算（公務及基金預算）；三、審查勞動部函送財團法人職業災害預防及重建中心\n114年度預算書案【所列預算案，僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1140403_00001"}}}