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{\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 388.958, \"end\": 389.258, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 389.258, \"end\": 389.338, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 389.338, \"end\": 389.438, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 389.438, \"end\": 389.458, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:42,822\n主席國務委員有請部長請紅部長也請那個快遞室快遞處嗎你們叫主計處勞動部我們快遞處快遞處好這位好好那個部長恭喜你不用說恭喜好我們看今天的這個基金這個遍列的預算就安定基金\n\n2\n00:00:44,568 --> 00:01:12,445\n那救援安定基金的用途啊救援安定基金的用途寫得非常的明確這個部長救援安定基金收支保管及應用辦法第一個它是行政院主計總處這個發布施行的啊發布施行所以這個在整個基金管理委員會有主計總處的人\n\n3\n00:01:14,871 --> 00:01:22,154\n然後請問一下會計處處長請問一下這個當然前面都已經提到過的就是舉辦營業會對不對365萬多元舉辦營業會請問一下在簽到要送到這個\n\n4\n00:01:40,854 --> 00:02:09,860\n管理委員會審議的時候之前是不是管理組要先審查?業務單位會先簽合給你們嗎?還是直接就送來管理委員會?跟委員報告這個部分那個我們業務單位在要決定要舉辦這個音樂會的時候其實他都有照相關的行政程序有簽合到首長\n\n5\n00:02:11,786 --> 00:02:28,923\n要經過你嗎?我現在問的是,我現在替部長去讓他瞭解,怎麼會講不清楚呢?要送到這個就案基金管理委員會審議之前,內部要先簽合,對不對?\n\n6\n00:02:28,923 --> 00:02:31,546\n是,是。我也要先,要不要先回你?\n\n7\n00:02:33,264 --> 00:03:00,667\n如果是涉及到採購的話當然會啊要動資金費都要匯會會啊我說說這個程序要讓部長瞭解一下這個程序他要送到就按基金管理委員會審議之前要不要先內部先簽合要要先經過會議處嗎是好部長你要去瞭解瞭解什麼呢就是這個程序\n\n8\n00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:28,735\n會計處有沒有盡到責任?會計處要去審查這些東西啊。到底符不符合就業安定基金的用途。這是最基本的。那個政務員我認為這恐怕也不只是會計處的責任啦。我沒有我只是責任很多因為大家都在談那個之前的委員的質詢大概都在談\n\n9\n00:03:30,472 --> 00:03:49,897\n第一個當然是部長嘛第二個就是這個委員會有沒有好的審議嘛基本上如果會計處都都隨便蓋章那就是錯誤的包括你看好我問一下處長會議處處長這些像這個這個辦公室的採購案在這個兩千多萬\n\n10\n00:04:01,167 --> 00:04:25,797\n兩千兩百五十萬在就業安定基金的預算裡面呢當年度的預算書有沒有變這麼多預算書沒有變那麼多跟委員報告這個部分我們是在我們的勞動力發展署的資訊設備相關的這個科目之下所做的一個所以不是就業安定基金是就案基金是就案基金是啊有這麼多嗎變這麼多嗎\n\n11\n00:04:28,570 --> 00:04:51,521\n一定是在我們的預算的不是啊我問你有沒有變那麼多預算數預算數處長你也不知道好這樣好不好好不好那個這樣這些確實都是用救安救安基金來支付的這個我已經確認過了對處長我要我要快速處長你很重要是我是老公務員啊\n\n12\n00:04:53,177 --> 00:05:21,282\n基本上第一關就是你們的可不可以動資這個經費第一關就是你們這個是很重要因為你是一條邊什麼叫一條邊呢你是勞動部部長是管不了你的你要一條你是一條邊你是行政院主計總署指派的對不對處長是不是所以你很重要所以顯然這個機制有問題嘛\n\n13\n00:05:24,479 --> 00:05:45,234\n這機制有問題。如果他們都沒有表示意見,那就是虧欲書的問題。如果他們有表示意見,那是部長的問題。好,你回去也查一下。這個這些有沒有比預算數還高的?你有知道嗎現在?可以現在回答嗎?有沒有比預算數還高的?當年度的預算數。\n\n14\n00:05:55,894 --> 00:05:59,356\n為什麼我要問這個呢提供資料給我有時候出在操之並結算有一個機制操之並結算\n\n15\n00:06:13,044 --> 00:06:29,458\n這個機制是最糟糕的、最容易出問題的,操之並決算。所以這個部分時間的關係本來還有很多議題要談,下次再跟部長提供相關的意見給你。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n15436\t42822\t主席國務委員有請部長請紅部長也請那個快遞室快遞處嗎你們叫主計處勞動部我們快遞處快遞處好這位好好那個部長恭喜你不用說恭喜好我們看今天的這個基金這個遍列的預算就安定基金\n44568\t72445\t那救援安定基金的用途啊救援安定基金的用途寫得非常的明確這個部長救援安定基金收支保管及應用辦法第一個它是行政院主計總處這個發布施行的啊發布施行所以這個在整個基金管理委員會有主計總處的人\n74871\t82154\t然後請問一下會計處處長請問一下這個當然前面都已經提到過的就是舉辦營業會對不對365萬多元舉辦營業會請問一下在簽到要送到這個\n100854\t129860\t管理委員會審議的時候之前是不是管理組要先審查?業務單位會先簽合給你們嗎?還是直接就送來管理委員會?跟委員報告這個部分那個我們業務單位在要決定要舉辦這個音樂會的時候其實他都有照相關的行政程序有簽合到首長\n131786\t148923\t要經過你嗎?我現在問的是,我現在替部長去讓他瞭解,怎麼會講不清楚呢?要送到這個就案基金管理委員會審議之前,內部要先簽合,對不對?\n148923\t151546\t是,是。我也要先,要不要先回你?\n153264\t180667\t如果是涉及到採購的話當然會啊要動資金費都要匯會會啊我說說這個程序要讓部長瞭解一下這個程序他要送到就按基金管理委員會審議之前要不要先內部先簽合要要先經過會議處嗎是好部長你要去瞭解瞭解什麼呢就是這個程序\n182760\t208735\t會計處有沒有盡到責任?會計處要去審查這些東西啊。到底符不符合就業安定基金的用途。這是最基本的。那個政務員我認為這恐怕也不只是會計處的責任啦。我沒有我只是責任很多因為大家都在談那個之前的委員的質詢大概都在談\n210472\t229897\t第一個當然是部長嘛第二個就是這個委員會有沒有好的審議嘛基本上如果會計處都都隨便蓋章那就是錯誤的包括你看好我問一下處長會議處處長這些像這個這個辦公室的採購案在這個兩千多萬\n241167\t265797\t兩千兩百五十萬在就業安定基金的預算裡面呢當年度的預算書有沒有變這麼多預算書沒有變那麼多跟委員報告這個部分我們是在我們的勞動力發展署的資訊設備相關的這個科目之下所做的一個所以不是就業安定基金是就案基金是就案基金是啊有這麼多嗎變這麼多嗎\n268570\t291521\t一定是在我們的預算的不是啊我問你有沒有變那麼多預算數預算數處長你也不知道好這樣好不好好不好那個這樣這些確實都是用救安救安基金來支付的這個我已經確認過了對處長我要我要快速處長你很重要是我是老公務員啊\n293177\t321282\t基本上第一關就是你們的可不可以動資這個經費第一關就是你們這個是很重要因為你是一條邊什麼叫一條邊呢你是勞動部部長是管不了你的你要一條你是一條邊你是行政院主計總署指派的對不對處長是不是所以你很重要所以顯然這個機制有問題嘛\n324479\t345234\t這機制有問題。如果他們都沒有表示意見,那就是虧欲書的問題。如果他們有表示意見,那是部長的問題。好,你回去也查一下。這個這些有沒有比預算數還高的?你有知道嗎現在?可以現在回答嗎?有沒有比預算數還高的?當年度的預算數。\n355894\t359356\t為什麼我要問這個呢提供資料給我有時候出在操之並結算有一個機制操之並結算\n373044\t389458\t這個機制是最糟糕的、最容易出問題的,操之並決算。 所以這個部分時間的關係本來還有很多議題要談,下次再跟部長提供相關的意見給你。\n","txt":"主席國務委員有請部長請紅部長也請那個快遞室快遞處嗎你們叫主計處勞動部我們快遞處快遞處好這位好好那個部長恭喜你不用說恭喜好我們看今天的這個基金這個遍列的預算就安定基金\n那救援安定基金的用途啊救援安定基金的用途寫得非常的明確這個部長救援安定基金收支保管及應用辦法第一個它是行政院主計總處這個發布施行的啊發布施行所以這個在整個基金管理委員會有主計總處的人\n然後請問一下會計處處長請問一下這個當然前面都已經提到過的就是舉辦營業會對不對365萬多元舉辦營業會請問一下在簽到要送到這個\n管理委員會審議的時候之前是不是管理組要先審查?業務單位會先簽合給你們嗎?還是直接就送來管理委員會?跟委員報告這個部分那個我們業務單位在要決定要舉辦這個音樂會的時候其實他都有照相關的行政程序有簽合到首長\n要經過你嗎?我現在問的是,我現在替部長去讓他瞭解,怎麼會講不清楚呢?要送到這個就案基金管理委員會審議之前,內部要先簽合,對不對?\n是,是。我也要先,要不要先回你?\n如果是涉及到採購的話當然會啊要動資金費都要匯會會啊我說說這個程序要讓部長瞭解一下這個程序他要送到就按基金管理委員會審議之前要不要先內部先簽合要要先經過會議處嗎是好部長你要去瞭解瞭解什麼呢就是這個程序\n會計處有沒有盡到責任?會計處要去審查這些東西啊。到底符不符合就業安定基金的用途。這是最基本的。那個政務員我認為這恐怕也不只是會計處的責任啦。我沒有我只是責任很多因為大家都在談那個之前的委員的質詢大概都在談\n第一個當然是部長嘛第二個就是這個委員會有沒有好的審議嘛基本上如果會計處都都隨便蓋章那就是錯誤的包括你看好我問一下處長會議處處長這些像這個這個辦公室的採購案在這個兩千多萬\n兩千兩百五十萬在就業安定基金的預算裡面呢當年度的預算書有沒有變這麼多預算書沒有變那麼多跟委員報告這個部分我們是在我們的勞動力發展署的資訊設備相關的這個科目之下所做的一個所以不是就業安定基金是就案基金是就案基金是啊有這麼多嗎變這麼多嗎\n一定是在我們的預算的不是啊我問你有沒有變那麼多預算數預算數處長你也不知道好這樣好不好好不好那個這樣這些確實都是用救安救安基金來支付的這個我已經確認過了對處長我要我要快速處長你很重要是我是老公務員啊\n基本上第一關就是你們的可不可以動資這個經費第一關就是你們這個是很重要因為你是一條邊什麼叫一條邊呢你是勞動部部長是管不了你的你要一條你是一條邊你是行政院主計總署指派的對不對處長是不是所以你很重要所以顯然這個機制有問題嘛\n這機制有問題。如果他們都沒有表示意見,那就是虧欲書的問題。如果他們有表示意見,那是部長的問題。好,你回去也查一下。這個這些有沒有比預算數還高的?你有知道嗎現在?可以現在回答嗎?有沒有比預算數還高的?當年度的預算數。\n為什麼我要問這個呢提供資料給我有時候出在操之並結算有一個機制操之並結算\n這個機制是最糟糕的、最容易出問題的,操之並決算。 所以這個部分時間的關係本來還有很多議題要談,下次再跟部長提供相關的意見給你。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:15.436 --> 00:42.822\n主席國務委員有請部長請紅部長也請那個快遞室快遞處嗎你們叫主計處勞動部我們快遞處快遞處好這位好好那個部長恭喜你不用說恭喜好我們看今天的這個基金這個遍列的預算就安定基金\n\n00:44.568 --> 01:12.445\n那救援安定基金的用途啊救援安定基金的用途寫得非常的明確這個部長救援安定基金收支保管及應用辦法第一個它是行政院主計總處這個發布施行的啊發布施行所以這個在整個基金管理委員會有主計總處的人\n\n01:14.871 --> 01:22.154\n然後請問一下會計處處長請問一下這個當然前面都已經提到過的就是舉辦營業會對不對365萬多元舉辦營業會請問一下在簽到要送到這個\n\n01:40.854 --> 02:09.860\n管理委員會審議的時候之前是不是管理組要先審查?業務單位會先簽合給你們嗎?還是直接就送來管理委員會?跟委員報告這個部分那個我們業務單位在要決定要舉辦這個音樂會的時候其實他都有照相關的行政程序有簽合到首長\n\n02:11.786 --> 02:28.923\n要經過你嗎?我現在問的是,我現在替部長去讓他瞭解,怎麼會講不清楚呢?要送到這個就案基金管理委員會審議之前,內部要先簽合,對不對?\n\n02:28.923 --> 02:31.546\n是,是。我也要先,要不要先回你?\n\n02:33.264 --> 03:00.667\n如果是涉及到採購的話當然會啊要動資金費都要匯會會啊我說說這個程序要讓部長瞭解一下這個程序他要送到就按基金管理委員會審議之前要不要先內部先簽合要要先經過會議處嗎是好部長你要去瞭解瞭解什麼呢就是這個程序\n\n03:02.760 --> 03:28.735\n會計處有沒有盡到責任?會計處要去審查這些東西啊。到底符不符合就業安定基金的用途。這是最基本的。那個政務員我認為這恐怕也不只是會計處的責任啦。我沒有我只是責任很多因為大家都在談那個之前的委員的質詢大概都在談\n\n03:30.472 --> 03:49.897\n第一個當然是部長嘛第二個就是這個委員會有沒有好的審議嘛基本上如果會計處都都隨便蓋章那就是錯誤的包括你看好我問一下處長會議處處長這些像這個這個辦公室的採購案在這個兩千多萬\n\n04:01.167 --> 04:25.797\n兩千兩百五十萬在就業安定基金的預算裡面呢當年度的預算書有沒有變這麼多預算書沒有變那麼多跟委員報告這個部分我們是在我們的勞動力發展署的資訊設備相關的這個科目之下所做的一個所以不是就業安定基金是就案基金是就案基金是啊有這麼多嗎變這麼多嗎\n\n04:28.570 --> 04:51.521\n一定是在我們的預算的不是啊我問你有沒有變那麼多預算數預算數處長你也不知道好這樣好不好好不好那個這樣這些確實都是用救安救安基金來支付的這個我已經確認過了對處長我要我要快速處長你很重要是我是老公務員啊\n\n04:53.177 --> 05:21.282\n基本上第一關就是你們的可不可以動資這個經費第一關就是你們這個是很重要因為你是一條邊什麼叫一條邊呢你是勞動部部長是管不了你的你要一條你是一條邊你是行政院主計總署指派的對不對處長是不是所以你很重要所以顯然這個機制有問題嘛\n\n05:24.479 --> 05:45.234\n這機制有問題。如果他們都沒有表示意見,那就是虧欲書的問題。如果他們有表示意見,那是部長的問題。好,你回去也查一下。這個這些有沒有比預算數還高的?你有知道嗎現在?可以現在回答嗎?有沒有比預算數還高的?當年度的預算數。\n\n05:55.894 --> 05:59.356\n為什麼我要問這個呢提供資料給我有時候出在操之並結算有一個機制操之並結算\n\n06:13.044 --> 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所以這個部分時間的關係本來還有很多議題要談,下次再跟部長提供相關的意見給你。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":842,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（12時24分）主席、各位委員。有請部長。"],["主席：請洪部長。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：也請會計室還是會計處，還是你們叫主計處？"],["洪部長申翰：我們叫會計處。"],["主席：請會計處處長。"],["洪部長申翰：鄭委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長，恭喜你。"],["洪部長申翰：不用說恭喜。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我們今天看就業安定基金編列的預算，就業安定基金的用途規定得非常明確，首先就業安定基金收支保管及應用辦法是行政院主計總處發布施行的，所以在整個基金管理委員會中有主計總處的人，之前已經有人提到過用三百六十五萬多元舉辦音樂會，請問一下會計處處長，在送到管理委員會審議之前，是不是會計處要先審查？業務單位會先簽核給你們還是直接就送到管理委員會？"],["林處長美杏：跟委員報告，我們業務單位在決定要舉辦這個音樂會的時候，其實都有照相關的行政程序簽核到首長。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：要不要經過你嘛！我現在是替部長問，讓他瞭解，怎麼會講不清楚呢？要送到就業安定基金管理委員會審議之前，內部要先簽核，對不對？"],["林處長美杏：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：要不要先會你？"],["林處長美杏：如果是涉及到採購的話，只要動支經費都要會會計處。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：當然會啊！我是說這個程序要讓部長瞭解一下，程序上在送到就業安定基金管理委員會審議之前，要不要內部先簽核？"],["林處長美杏：要。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：要先經過會計處嘛！"],["林處長美杏：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長你要去瞭解，瞭解什麼呢？就是在程序上會計處有沒有盡到責任，會計處要去審查這些東西到底符不符合就業安定基金的用途，這是最基本的。"],["洪部長申翰：鄭委員，我認為這恐怕也不只是會計處的責任。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：要負責任的很多，因為之前委員的質詢大家都在談，第一個當然是部長，第二個就是這個委員會有沒有好好的審議，基本上如果會計處都隨便蓋章，那就是錯誤的。我再問一下會計處處長，比如這個辦公室的採購案2,250萬元，就業安定基金當年度的預算書裡有沒有編這麼多？預算數有沒有編那麼多？"],["黃司長維琛：跟委員報告，這個部分是在我們勞動力發展署的資訊設備相關科目之下所做的一個……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：所以不是就業安定基金？"],["黃司長維琛：是就安基金。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：是啊！有這麼多嗎？有編這麼多嗎？"],["黃司長維琛：一定是在我們的預算額度裡面。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我問的是有沒有編那麼多預算數？處長你也不知道？好，這樣好不好……"],["洪部長申翰：委員，這些確實都是用就安基金來支付的，這個我已經確認過了。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：處長，我要問會計處處長，你很重要。"],["林處長美杏：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我是老公務員，基本上第一關就是你們，可不可以動支這個經費，第一關就是你們，這個是很重要，因為你們是一條鞭，什麼叫一條鞭？勞動部部長是管不了你的，你們是一條鞭，是行政院主計總處指派的，對不對？處長，是不是？"],["林處長美杏：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：所以你很重要，顯然這個機制有問題，這機制有問題，如果他們都蓋章、沒有表示意見，那就是會計處的問題；如果他們有表示意見，那就是部長的問題。好，你回去也查一下這些有沒有比預算數還高的，你現在知道嗎？可以現在回答嗎？有沒有比預算數還高的？當年度的預算數。"],["吳主任靜芳：這個我們回去……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，回去查是不是？"],["洪部長申翰：我們回去確認，然後再提供給委員，好不好？"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好。為什麼我要問這個呢？提供資料給我，有時候問題出在超支併決算，有一個機制是超支併決算，這個機制是最糟糕、最容易出問題的。關於這個部分，因為時間的關係，本來還有很多議題要談，下次再跟部長來提供相關的意見。"],["洪部長申翰：謝謝鄭委員提醒。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝鄭天財委員的發言，謝謝部長。","我們下一位請羅智強委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":196,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-13","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","王育敏","涂權吉","盧縣一","陳瑩","蘇清泉","陳培瑜","林淑芬","賴士葆","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","洪孟楷","羅廷瑋","麥玉珍","楊曜","王正旭","黃國昌","張啓楷","劉建國","翁曉玲","王鴻薇","張雅琳"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-09"],"gazette_id":"1140403","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140403_00002","1140403_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案\n關於勞動部主管預算（公務及基金預算）；三、審查勞動部函送財團法人職業災害預防及重建中心\n114年度預算書案【所列預算案，僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1140403_00001"}}}