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00:01:06,746\n我所看到的你在之前勞團所做抗議的時候你去現場去做一個對話到現在你做部長了人走茶樑拜託有必要這樣嗎?委員部長您說關心是你本人會去關心嗎?委員我們會把現在大家關心的這些訴求那你願不願意現場接見?我會來關心你會不會現場接見?請聽他們心聲我們會來關心\n\n4\n00:01:10,768 --> 00:01:35,635\n我覺得當了五年的立委現在轉任勞動部部長我覺得真的不需要這樣子你本身不是這樣的人但是這個官僚這樣子迴避問題我覺得沒辦法接受我們沒有迴避問題我們會來關心你可不可以承諾我直接去關心他們現場去傾聽他們接受他們的意見我們當然會來關心部長我不跟你耗這個議題現在勞保2028年要破產你有什麼想法\n\n5\n00:01:38,665 --> 00:01:59,156\n請那個委員跟委員說來我直接講喔你要請人上來就你都沒關係那個部長我可以說我可以說我先做說明那你先回答我嘛好不好你不要直接今年今年的這個勞保基金的水位已經破兆了那確實這幾年因為撥補也包括基金的投資的收益的表現比預想中來的好\n\n6\n00:02:00,177 --> 00:02:16,114\n但是整個勞保說勞保破產跟勞保危機這個問題我們還是非常非常神聖在看待我都知道部長我想軍公教還有這個勞工現在我們大家都很關心先請問一下部長上週是司法法治委員會排審公務人員退休之前的撫恤法\n\n7\n00:02:16,855 --> 00:02:34,353\n那我想這一個進度我先不問你了因為你不是跟這個司法法制有關係喔但是部長當初年改修改後可以延後一個世代140年根據全區部上週四的報告如果按照啊蘭委所提出的版本啊通過以後退服基金用慶將提早4到5年發生喔\n\n8\n00:02:37,737 --> 00:02:54,075\n當初民進黨、深圳、澳大利亞、網軍、污名整個公務人員、然後煞有其事的由副總統主持軍公教年改委員整個大工程完以後只延後4到5年破產。部長請問一下我先問你勞保精算哪時候會再出爐?下一次的。出稿出來了嗎?年底就會出爐。出稿出來了嗎?\n\n9\n00:03:02,823 --> 00:03:20,054\n委員好跟委員報告因為今年是精算那現在精算是正在做最後的一個期末報告的修正好所以你們都還不能夠拿出正確的一個數字啦沒關係我就我手頭上目前最新的2021年的精算報告來問2021年精算報告是哪時候破產可以回答我嗎\n\n10\n00:03:21,078 --> 00:03:22,700\n公務及基金預算案關於勞動部主管預算案例\n\n11\n00:03:41,814 --> 00:03:56,999\n我先補充幾個資訊齁按照這幾年其實包括因為波普包括投資收益的增加二零二八年的這個數字看起來是很有機會會往後再延後的但這不代表沒有危機我要說這不代表沒有危機\n\n12\n00:03:58,099 --> 00:04:00,402\n三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算：僅\n\n13\n00:04:19,161 --> 00:04:29,036\n那請問部長民進黨修法後軍工交到140年破產目的是要保障一個世代的公平正義那如果勞保也要到140年破產請問一下需要撥補多少錢140年\n\n14\n00:04:37,418 --> 00:04:54,955\n我想幾千億幾千億的撥補就是現在的政策啦但是我要講的是最後還是破產所以到底是不是打假球我們要的改革是能夠勇士的我們要的改革是能夠大幅度的可是現在看到了你當立委也支持軍公教要改革\n\n15\n00:04:55,975 --> 00:05:16,384\n勞保可以撥補那為什麼當初軍工叫改革撥補不行為什麼勞保現在不敢召開年改委員會答案就是政治考量勞保要破產了病症已經非常嚴重了這八年來都不敢送改革方案只有撥補一圖為什麼不敢送一切都是因為選舉所以我希望勞保司的司長\n\n16\n00:05:17,524 --> 00:05:32,615\n勞保2028年我們就2021年的精算喔你有做這樣子的一個事務官的一個責任喔勞保年改的重要幕僚請問部長講的這些外我們師長能不能給予其他的一些解決方案喔又或者給部長一些建議呃我\n\n17\n00:05:36,772 --> 00:05:56,136\n你有沒有建議啦?直接說有或沒有啦?跟我們報告喔,我們現在做了撥補,我們會持續辦理。好啦,會後有些實際的建議方案喔,具體給我書面報告啦。那我想問喔,這個救安基金為什麼是勞動部的小金庫?也是行政院的小金庫?小金庫之名是怎麼來的?我們來了解一下,答案就是亂用嘛。\n\n18\n00:05:56,616 --> 00:06:24,618\n用途、名目、亂七八糟。部長我想問一下為什麼移民署查緝移工的獎金又編在救安基金裡面?跟文說明因為這跟移工的管理有關。我想法定職長的一個業務為什麼不回到移民署自己去編列預算?如果說移民署查緝外籍移工的獎金就用救安基金那移民署所有的人員薪水因為他們也在查緝移工啊他們要不要也編在救安基金裡面?\n\n19\n00:06:25,479 --> 00:06:48,570\n部長我們這個PTT後續我要先請你看一下你在2020年就發現救安基金被勞動部亂用拿去支付律師費是否現在問題是依舊我要說明的事情是第一個剛才在講到這個查緝移工的對不起我現在問你這個律師費現在救安基金是不是還在支應是不是還有嗎\n\n20\n00:06:55,359 --> 00:07:20,829\n還是問不出來到現在每次救安基金上次我才在罵救安基金必考題你們到現在還不知道2020年就發現救安基金有問題從2020到2024欸紅部長你身為立委的時候你發現他有問題你做了哪些處置你有杯葛預算嗎還是護航預算這一則貼文寫到經過許多朝野立委的溝通跟要求認為勞動部在溝通後轉變是一個好的開始請問部長當下\n\n21\n00:07:25,031 --> 00:07:27,594\n好的開始是什麼?那現在他還沒有再來跟勞工打官司?\n\n22\n00:07:43,857 --> 00:08:02,734\n我想用律師費這應該要一併檢討那律師費的部分到底有多少用在這邊是不是細項讓我知道一下有多少的救安基金還用在各個律師費的指引上我想救安基金就像魔戒大家都說不好可是不好然後又還一直用一直亂用\n\n23\n00:08:03,434 --> 00:08:06,937\n審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務．僅\n\n24\n00:08:26,590 --> 00:08:42,592\n而我覺得關於救安基金有多少用在比方說用在訴訟的過程這部分我們當然可以來做一個整理但我當時提出來的事情是因為這筆錢用在跟勞工打官司而我覺得我認為救安基金的使用應該是要站在\n\n25\n00:08:43,313 --> 00:09:00,314\n謝謝你的補充我聽到了但是我要講的是之前也有其他的委員對於救安基金各個細項能不能公開我們都予以關心喔所以我想我是認同的我希望救安基金所有的使用細項能夠因此而公開讓全民知道這部分您可以承諾嗎\n\n26\n00:09:02,315 --> 00:09:20,027\n跟委員說明齁在中央基金的這個整體的管理機制的檢討我們正在進行那我自己認為就資訊的揭露上面我認為我們可以做更多做更多包括公開細項我覺得我們可以做更多\n\n27\n00:09:22,332 --> 00:09:46,447\n你就是在迴避問題嗎?只求對決讓全民知道你敢不敢公開?委員我沒有在迴避我現在正在面對這個問題我知道但是你不能每一次都說我可以做更多我可以關心但是你的關心程度到多少?你的具體項目是什麼?能不能公開?能不能實際上公開?委員我們正在檢討這件事情我知道你有在檢討然後我自己在態度上認為是可以公開更多\n\n28\n00:09:46,887 --> 00:10:02,846\n但執行面會處理到什麼程度這當然我覺得我們一些執行的細節上面我還要跟業務單位再做一些討論你這樣子詳細的說明我可以接受嘛可是你剛剛就直接說我可以來討論我們會來關心我不希望有這樣子的回答\n\n29\n00:10:03,166 --> 00:10:05,169\n三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算：僅\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3696\t18702\t謝謝有請部長請黃部長部長我想勞團現在說要絕食抗議齁我還是再一次問你你會現場去接見請您他們的訴求嗎請您就實回答會跟不會\n21256\t44772\t現在我們會先來吧我知道你要去做改革的事情但是我所在意的是你會不會出席會不會去接見他們我們會來關心那所以你會本人去關心嗎我們會來關心對不起你會本人去關心嗎我們會來關心對不起喔我覺得你的回應都是在迴避就跟他們絕食抗議的內容一樣為什麼不能就我的回答我要求你來回答我的一個問題我覺得喔\n46653\t66746\t我所看到的你在之前勞團所做抗議的時候你去現場去做一個對話到現在你做部長了人走茶樑拜託有必要這樣嗎?委員部長您說關心是你本人會去關心嗎?委員我們會把現在大家關心的這些訴求那你願不願意現場接見?我會來關心你會不會現場接見?請聽他們心聲我們會來關心\n70768\t95635\t我覺得當了五年的立委現在轉任勞動部部長我覺得真的不需要這樣子你本身不是這樣的人但是這個官僚這樣子迴避問題我覺得沒辦法接受我們沒有迴避問題我們會來關心你可不可以承諾我直接去關心他們現場去傾聽他們接受他們的意見我們當然會來關心部長我不跟你耗這個議題現在勞保2028年要破產你有什麼想法\n98665\t119156\t請那個委員跟委員說來我直接講喔你要請人上來就你都沒關係那個部長我可以說我可以說我先做說明那你先回答我嘛好不好你不要直接今年今年的這個勞保基金的水位已經破兆了那確實這幾年因為撥補也包括基金的投資的收益的表現比預想中來的好\n120177\t136114\t但是整個勞保說勞保破產跟勞保危機這個問題我們還是非常非常神聖在看待我都知道部長我想軍公教還有這個勞工現在我們大家都很關心先請問一下部長上週是司法法治委員會排審公務人員退休之前的撫恤法\n136855\t154353\t那我想這一個進度我先不問你了因為你不是跟這個司法法制有關係喔但是部長當初年改修改後可以延後一個世代140年根據全區部上週四的報告如果按照啊蘭委所提出的版本啊通過以後退服基金用慶將提早4到5年發生喔\n157737\t174075\t當初民進黨、深圳、澳大利亞、網軍、污名整個公務人員、然後煞有其事的由副總統主持軍公教年改委員整個大工程完以後只延後4到5年破產。部長請問一下我先問你勞保精算哪時候會再出爐?下一次的。出稿出來了嗎?年底就會出爐。出稿出來了嗎?\n182823\t200054\t委員好跟委員報告因為今年是精算那現在精算是正在做最後的一個期末報告的修正好所以你們都還不能夠拿出正確的一個數字啦沒關係我就我手頭上目前最新的2021年的精算報告來問2021年精算報告是哪時候破產可以回答我嗎\n201078\t202700\t公務及基金預算案關於勞動部主管預算案例\n221814\t236999\t我先補充幾個資訊齁按照這幾年其實包括因為波普包括投資收益的增加二零二八年的這個數字看起來是很有機會會往後再延後的但這不代表沒有危機我要說這不代表沒有危機\n238099\t240402\t三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算：僅\n259161\t269036\t那請問部長民進黨修法後軍工交到140年破產目的是要保障一個世代的公平正義那如果勞保也要到140年破產請問一下需要撥補多少錢140年\n277418\t294955\t我想幾千億幾千億的撥補就是現在的政策啦但是我要講的是最後還是破產所以到底是不是打假球我們要的改革是能夠勇士的我們要的改革是能夠大幅度的可是現在看到了你當立委也支持軍公教要改革\n295975\t316384\t勞保可以撥補那為什麼當初軍工叫改革撥補不行為什麼勞保現在不敢召開年改委員會答案就是政治考量勞保要破產了病症已經非常嚴重了這八年來都不敢送改革方案只有撥補一圖為什麼不敢送一切都是因為選舉所以我希望勞保司的司長\n317524\t332615\t勞保2028年我們就2021年的精算喔你有做這樣子的一個事務官的一個責任喔勞保年改的重要幕僚請問部長講的這些外我們師長能不能給予其他的一些解決方案喔又或者給部長一些建議呃我\n336772\t356136\t你有沒有建議啦?直接說有或沒有啦?跟我們報告喔,我們現在做了撥補,我們會持續辦理。好啦,會後有些實際的建議方案喔,具體給我書面報告啦。那我想問喔,這個救安基金為什麼是勞動部的小金庫?也是行政院的小金庫?小金庫之名是怎麼來的?我們來了解一下,答案就是亂用嘛。\n356616\t384618\t用途、名目、亂七八糟。部長我想問一下為什麼移民署查緝移工的獎金又編在救安基金裡面?跟文說明因為這跟移工的管理有關。我想法定職長的一個業務為什麼不回到移民署自己去編列預算?如果說移民署查緝外籍移工的獎金就用救安基金那移民署所有的人員薪水因為他們也在查緝移工啊他們要不要也編在救安基金裡面?\n385479\t408570\t部長我們這個PTT後續我要先請你看一下你在2020年就發現救安基金被勞動部亂用拿去支付律師費是否現在問題是依舊我要說明的事情是第一個剛才在講到這個查緝移工的對不起我現在問你這個律師費現在救安基金是不是還在支應是不是還有嗎\n415359\t440829\t還是問不出來到現在每次救安基金上次我才在罵救安基金必考題你們到現在還不知道2020年就發現救安基金有問題從2020到2024欸紅部長你身為立委的時候你發現他有問題你做了哪些處置你有杯葛預算嗎還是護航預算這一則貼文寫到經過許多朝野立委的溝通跟要求認為勞動部在溝通後轉變是一個好的開始請問部長當下\n445031\t447594\t好的開始是什麼?那現在他還沒有再來跟勞工打官司?\n463857\t482734\t我想用律師費這應該要一併檢討那律師費的部分到底有多少用在這邊是不是細項讓我知道一下有多少的救安基金還用在各個律師費的指引上我想救安基金就像魔戒大家都說不好可是不好然後又還一直用一直亂用\n483434\t486937\t審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務．僅\n506590\t522592\t而我覺得關於救安基金有多少用在比方說用在訴訟的過程這部分我們當然可以來做一個整理但我當時提出來的事情是因為這筆錢用在跟勞工打官司而我覺得我認為救安基金的使用應該是要站在\n523313\t540314\t謝謝你的補充我聽到了但是我要講的是之前也有其他的委員對於救安基金各個細項能不能公開我們都予以關心喔所以我想我是認同的我希望救安基金所有的使用細項能夠因此而公開讓全民知道這部分您可以承諾嗎\n542315\t560027\t跟委員說明齁在中央基金的這個整體的管理機制的檢討我們正在進行那我自己認為就資訊的揭露上面我認為我們可以做更多做更多包括公開細項我覺得我們可以做更多\n562332\t586447\t你就是在迴避問題嗎?只求對決讓全民知道你敢不敢公開?委員我沒有在迴避我現在正在面對這個問題我知道但是你不能每一次都說我可以做更多我可以關心但是你的關心程度到多少?你的具體項目是什麼?能不能公開?能不能實際上公開?委員我們正在檢討這件事情我知道你有在檢討然後我自己在態度上認為是可以公開更多\n586887\t602846\t但執行面會處理到什麼程度這當然我覺得我們一些執行的細節上面我還要跟業務單位再做一些討論你這樣子詳細的說明我可以接受嘛可是你剛剛就直接說我可以來討論我們會來關心我不希望有這樣子的回答\n603166\t605169\t三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算：僅\n","txt":"謝謝有請部長請黃部長部長我想勞團現在說要絕食抗議齁我還是再一次問你你會現場去接見請您他們的訴求嗎請您就實回答會跟不會\n現在我們會先來吧我知道你要去做改革的事情但是我所在意的是你會不會出席會不會去接見他們我們會來關心那所以你會本人去關心嗎我們會來關心對不起你會本人去關心嗎我們會來關心對不起喔我覺得你的回應都是在迴避就跟他們絕食抗議的內容一樣為什麼不能就我的回答我要求你來回答我的一個問題我覺得喔\n我所看到的你在之前勞團所做抗議的時候你去現場去做一個對話到現在你做部長了人走茶樑拜託有必要這樣嗎?委員部長您說關心是你本人會去關心嗎?委員我們會把現在大家關心的這些訴求那你願不願意現場接見?我會來關心你會不會現場接見?請聽他們心聲我們會來關心\n我覺得當了五年的立委現在轉任勞動部部長我覺得真的不需要這樣子你本身不是這樣的人但是這個官僚這樣子迴避問題我覺得沒辦法接受我們沒有迴避問題我們會來關心你可不可以承諾我直接去關心他們現場去傾聽他們接受他們的意見我們當然會來關心部長我不跟你耗這個議題現在勞保2028年要破產你有什麼想法\n請那個委員跟委員說來我直接講喔你要請人上來就你都沒關係那個部長我可以說我可以說我先做說明那你先回答我嘛好不好你不要直接今年今年的這個勞保基金的水位已經破兆了那確實這幾年因為撥補也包括基金的投資的收益的表現比預想中來的好\n但是整個勞保說勞保破產跟勞保危機這個問題我們還是非常非常神聖在看待我都知道部長我想軍公教還有這個勞工現在我們大家都很關心先請問一下部長上週是司法法治委員會排審公務人員退休之前的撫恤法\n那我想這一個進度我先不問你了因為你不是跟這個司法法制有關係喔但是部長當初年改修改後可以延後一個世代140年根據全區部上週四的報告如果按照啊蘭委所提出的版本啊通過以後退服基金用慶將提早4到5年發生喔\n當初民進黨、深圳、澳大利亞、網軍、污名整個公務人員、然後煞有其事的由副總統主持軍公教年改委員整個大工程完以後只延後4到5年破產。部長請問一下我先問你勞保精算哪時候會再出爐?下一次的。出稿出來了嗎?年底就會出爐。出稿出來了嗎?\n委員好跟委員報告因為今年是精算那現在精算是正在做最後的一個期末報告的修正好所以你們都還不能夠拿出正確的一個數字啦沒關係我就我手頭上目前最新的2021年的精算報告來問2021年精算報告是哪時候破產可以回答我嗎\n公務及基金預算案關於勞動部主管預算案例\n我先補充幾個資訊齁按照這幾年其實包括因為波普包括投資收益的增加二零二八年的這個數字看起來是很有機會會往後再延後的但這不代表沒有危機我要說這不代表沒有危機\n三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算：僅\n那請問部長民進黨修法後軍工交到140年破產目的是要保障一個世代的公平正義那如果勞保也要到140年破產請問一下需要撥補多少錢140年\n我想幾千億幾千億的撥補就是現在的政策啦但是我要講的是最後還是破產所以到底是不是打假球我們要的改革是能夠勇士的我們要的改革是能夠大幅度的可是現在看到了你當立委也支持軍公教要改革\n勞保可以撥補那為什麼當初軍工叫改革撥補不行為什麼勞保現在不敢召開年改委員會答案就是政治考量勞保要破產了病症已經非常嚴重了這八年來都不敢送改革方案只有撥補一圖為什麼不敢送一切都是因為選舉所以我希望勞保司的司長\n勞保2028年我們就2021年的精算喔你有做這樣子的一個事務官的一個責任喔勞保年改的重要幕僚請問部長講的這些外我們師長能不能給予其他的一些解決方案喔又或者給部長一些建議呃我\n你有沒有建議啦?直接說有或沒有啦?跟我們報告喔,我們現在做了撥補,我們會持續辦理。好啦,會後有些實際的建議方案喔,具體給我書面報告啦。那我想問喔,這個救安基金為什麼是勞動部的小金庫?也是行政院的小金庫?小金庫之名是怎麼來的?我們來了解一下,答案就是亂用嘛。\n用途、名目、亂七八糟。部長我想問一下為什麼移民署查緝移工的獎金又編在救安基金裡面?跟文說明因為這跟移工的管理有關。我想法定職長的一個業務為什麼不回到移民署自己去編列預算?如果說移民署查緝外籍移工的獎金就用救安基金那移民署所有的人員薪水因為他們也在查緝移工啊他們要不要也編在救安基金裡面?\n部長我們這個PTT後續我要先請你看一下你在2020年就發現救安基金被勞動部亂用拿去支付律師費是否現在問題是依舊我要說明的事情是第一個剛才在講到這個查緝移工的對不起我現在問你這個律師費現在救安基金是不是還在支應是不是還有嗎\n還是問不出來到現在每次救安基金上次我才在罵救安基金必考題你們到現在還不知道2020年就發現救安基金有問題從2020到2024欸紅部長你身為立委的時候你發現他有問題你做了哪些處置你有杯葛預算嗎還是護航預算這一則貼文寫到經過許多朝野立委的溝通跟要求認為勞動部在溝通後轉變是一個好的開始請問部長當下\n好的開始是什麼?那現在他還沒有再來跟勞工打官司?\n我想用律師費這應該要一併檢討那律師費的部分到底有多少用在這邊是不是細項讓我知道一下有多少的救安基金還用在各個律師費的指引上我想救安基金就像魔戒大家都說不好可是不好然後又還一直用一直亂用\n審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務．僅\n而我覺得關於救安基金有多少用在比方說用在訴訟的過程這部分我們當然可以來做一個整理但我當時提出來的事情是因為這筆錢用在跟勞工打官司而我覺得我認為救安基金的使用應該是要站在\n謝謝你的補充我聽到了但是我要講的是之前也有其他的委員對於救安基金各個細項能不能公開我們都予以關心喔所以我想我是認同的我希望救安基金所有的使用細項能夠因此而公開讓全民知道這部分您可以承諾嗎\n跟委員說明齁在中央基金的這個整體的管理機制的檢討我們正在進行那我自己認為就資訊的揭露上面我認為我們可以做更多做更多包括公開細項我覺得我們可以做更多\n你就是在迴避問題嗎?只求對決讓全民知道你敢不敢公開?委員我沒有在迴避我現在正在面對這個問題我知道但是你不能每一次都說我可以做更多我可以關心但是你的關心程度到多少?你的具體項目是什麼?能不能公開?能不能實際上公開?委員我們正在檢討這件事情我知道你有在檢討然後我自己在態度上認為是可以公開更多\n但執行面會處理到什麼程度這當然我覺得我們一些執行的細節上面我還要跟業務單位再做一些討論你這樣子詳細的說明我可以接受嘛可是你剛剛就直接說我可以來討論我們會來關心我不希望有這樣子的回答\n三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算：僅\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.696 --> 00:18.702\n謝謝有請部長請黃部長部長我想勞團現在說要絕食抗議齁我還是再一次問你你會現場去接見請您他們的訴求嗎請您就實回答會跟不會\n\n00:21.256 --> 00:44.772\n現在我們會先來吧我知道你要去做改革的事情但是我所在意的是你會不會出席會不會去接見他們我們會來關心那所以你會本人去關心嗎我們會來關心對不起你會本人去關心嗎我們會來關心對不起喔我覺得你的回應都是在迴避就跟他們絕食抗議的內容一樣為什麼不能就我的回答我要求你來回答我的一個問題我覺得喔\n\n00:46.653 --> 01:06.746\n我所看到的你在之前勞團所做抗議的時候你去現場去做一個對話到現在你做部長了人走茶樑拜託有必要這樣嗎?委員部長您說關心是你本人會去關心嗎?委員我們會把現在大家關心的這些訴求那你願不願意現場接見?我會來關心你會不會現場接見?請聽他們心聲我們會來關心\n\n01:10.768 --> 01:35.635\n我覺得當了五年的立委現在轉任勞動部部長我覺得真的不需要這樣子你本身不是這樣的人但是這個官僚這樣子迴避問題我覺得沒辦法接受我們沒有迴避問題我們會來關心你可不可以承諾我直接去關心他們現場去傾聽他們接受他們的意見我們當然會來關心部長我不跟你耗這個議題現在勞保2028年要破產你有什麼想法\n\n01:38.665 --> 01:59.156\n請那個委員跟委員說來我直接講喔你要請人上來就你都沒關係那個部長我可以說我可以說我先做說明那你先回答我嘛好不好你不要直接今年今年的這個勞保基金的水位已經破兆了那確實這幾年因為撥補也包括基金的投資的收益的表現比預想中來的好\n\n02:00.177 --> 02:16.114\n但是整個勞保說勞保破產跟勞保危機這個問題我們還是非常非常神聖在看待我都知道部長我想軍公教還有這個勞工現在我們大家都很關心先請問一下部長上週是司法法治委員會排審公務人員退休之前的撫恤法\n\n02:16.855 --> 02:34.353\n那我想這一個進度我先不問你了因為你不是跟這個司法法制有關係喔但是部長當初年改修改後可以延後一個世代140年根據全區部上週四的報告如果按照啊蘭委所提出的版本啊通過以後退服基金用慶將提早4到5年發生喔\n\n02:37.737 --> 02:54.075\n當初民進黨、深圳、澳大利亞、網軍、污名整個公務人員、然後煞有其事的由副總統主持軍公教年改委員整個大工程完以後只延後4到5年破產。部長請問一下我先問你勞保精算哪時候會再出爐?下一次的。出稿出來了嗎?年底就會出爐。出稿出來了嗎?\n\n03:02.823 --> 03:20.054\n委員好跟委員報告因為今年是精算那現在精算是正在做最後的一個期末報告的修正好所以你們都還不能夠拿出正確的一個數字啦沒關係我就我手頭上目前最新的2021年的精算報告來問2021年精算報告是哪時候破產可以回答我嗎\n\n03:21.078 --> 03:22.700\n公務及基金預算案關於勞動部主管預算案例\n\n03:41.814 --> 03:56.999\n我先補充幾個資訊齁按照這幾年其實包括因為波普包括投資收益的增加二零二八年的這個數字看起來是很有機會會往後再延後的但這不代表沒有危機我要說這不代表沒有危機\n\n03:58.099 --> 04:00.402\n三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算：僅\n\n04:19.161 --> 04:29.036\n那請問部長民進黨修法後軍工交到140年破產目的是要保障一個世代的公平正義那如果勞保也要到140年破產請問一下需要撥補多少錢140年\n\n04:37.418 --> 04:54.955\n我想幾千億幾千億的撥補就是現在的政策啦但是我要講的是最後還是破產所以到底是不是打假球我們要的改革是能夠勇士的我們要的改革是能夠大幅度的可是現在看到了你當立委也支持軍公教要改革\n\n04:55.975 --> 05:16.384\n勞保可以撥補那為什麼當初軍工叫改革撥補不行為什麼勞保現在不敢召開年改委員會答案就是政治考量勞保要破產了病症已經非常嚴重了這八年來都不敢送改革方案只有撥補一圖為什麼不敢送一切都是因為選舉所以我希望勞保司的司長\n\n05:17.524 --> 05:32.615\n勞保2028年我們就2021年的精算喔你有做這樣子的一個事務官的一個責任喔勞保年改的重要幕僚請問部長講的這些外我們師長能不能給予其他的一些解決方案喔又或者給部長一些建議呃我\n\n05:36.772 --> 05:56.136\n你有沒有建議啦?直接說有或沒有啦?跟我們報告喔,我們現在做了撥補,我們會持續辦理。好啦,會後有些實際的建議方案喔,具體給我書面報告啦。那我想問喔,這個救安基金為什麼是勞動部的小金庫?也是行政院的小金庫?小金庫之名是怎麼來的?我們來了解一下,答案就是亂用嘛。\n\n05:56.616 --> 06:24.618\n用途、名目、亂七八糟。部長我想問一下為什麼移民署查緝移工的獎金又編在救安基金裡面?跟文說明因為這跟移工的管理有關。我想法定職長的一個業務為什麼不回到移民署自己去編列預算?如果說移民署查緝外籍移工的獎金就用救安基金那移民署所有的人員薪水因為他們也在查緝移工啊他們要不要也編在救安基金裡面?\n\n06:25.479 --> 06:48.570\n部長我們這個PTT後續我要先請你看一下你在2020年就發現救安基金被勞動部亂用拿去支付律師費是否現在問題是依舊我要說明的事情是第一個剛才在講到這個查緝移工的對不起我現在問你這個律師費現在救安基金是不是還在支應是不是還有嗎\n\n06:55.359 --> 07:20.829\n還是問不出來到現在每次救安基金上次我才在罵救安基金必考題你們到現在還不知道2020年就發現救安基金有問題從2020到2024欸紅部長你身為立委的時候你發現他有問題你做了哪些處置你有杯葛預算嗎還是護航預算這一則貼文寫到經過許多朝野立委的溝通跟要求認為勞動部在溝通後轉變是一個好的開始請問部長當下\n\n07:25.031 --> 07:27.594\n好的開始是什麼?那現在他還沒有再來跟勞工打官司?\n\n07:43.857 --> 08:02.734\n我想用律師費這應該要一併檢討那律師費的部分到底有多少用在這邊是不是細項讓我知道一下有多少的救安基金還用在各個律師費的指引上我想救安基金就像魔戒大家都說不好可是不好然後又還一直用一直亂用\n\n08:03.434 --> 08:06.937\n審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務．僅\n\n08:26.590 --> 08:42.592\n而我覺得關於救安基金有多少用在比方說用在訴訟的過程這部分我們當然可以來做一個整理但我當時提出來的事情是因為這筆錢用在跟勞工打官司而我覺得我認為救安基金的使用應該是要站在\n\n08:43.313 --> 09:00.314\n謝謝你的補充我聽到了但是我要講的是之前也有其他的委員對於救安基金各個細項能不能公開我們都予以關心喔所以我想我是認同的我希望救安基金所有的使用細項能夠因此而公開讓全民知道這部分您可以承諾嗎\n\n09:02.315 --> 09:20.027\n跟委員說明齁在中央基金的這個整體的管理機制的檢討我們正在進行那我自己認為就資訊的揭露上面我認為我們可以做更多做更多包括公開細項我覺得我們可以做更多\n\n09:22.332 --> 09:46.447\n你就是在迴避問題嗎?只求對決讓全民知道你敢不敢公開?委員我沒有在迴避我現在正在面對這個問題我知道但是你不能每一次都說我可以做更多我可以關心但是你的關心程度到多少?你的具體項目是什麼?能不能公開?能不能實際上公開?委員我們正在檢討這件事情我知道你有在檢討然後我自己在態度上認為是可以公開更多\n\n09:46.887 --> 10:02.846\n但執行面會處理到什麼程度這當然我覺得我們一些執行的細節上面我還要跟業務單位再做一些討論你這樣子詳細的說明我可以接受嘛可是你剛剛就直接說我可以來討論我們會來關心我不希望有這樣子的回答\n\n10:03.166 --> 10:05.169\n三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算：僅\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.696,"end":18.702,"text":"謝謝有請部長請黃部長部長我想勞團現在說要絕食抗議齁我還是再一次問你你會現場去接見請您他們的訴求嗎請您就實回答會跟不會"},{"start":21.256,"end":44.772,"text":"現在我們會先來吧我知道你要去做改革的事情但是我所在意的是你會不會出席會不會去接見他們我們會來關心那所以你會本人去關心嗎我們會來關心對不起你會本人去關心嗎我們會來關心對不起喔我覺得你的回應都是在迴避就跟他們絕食抗議的內容一樣為什麼不能就我的回答我要求你來回答我的一個問題我覺得喔"},{"start":46.653,"end":66.746,"text":"我所看到的你在之前勞團所做抗議的時候你去現場去做一個對話到現在你做部長了人走茶樑拜託有必要這樣嗎?委員部長您說關心是你本人會去關心嗎?委員我們會把現在大家關心的這些訴求那你願不願意現場接見?我會來關心你會不會現場接見?請聽他們心聲我們會來關心"},{"start":70.768,"end":95.635,"text":"我覺得當了五年的立委現在轉任勞動部部長我覺得真的不需要這樣子你本身不是這樣的人但是這個官僚這樣子迴避問題我覺得沒辦法接受我們沒有迴避問題我們會來關心你可不可以承諾我直接去關心他們現場去傾聽他們接受他們的意見我們當然會來關心部長我不跟你耗這個議題現在勞保2028年要破產你有什麼想法"},{"start":98.665,"end":119.156,"text":"請那個委員跟委員說來我直接講喔你要請人上來就你都沒關係那個部長我可以說我可以說我先做說明那你先回答我嘛好不好你不要直接今年今年的這個勞保基金的水位已經破兆了那確實這幾年因為撥補也包括基金的投資的收益的表現比預想中來的好"},{"start":120.177,"end":136.114,"text":"但是整個勞保說勞保破產跟勞保危機這個問題我們還是非常非常神聖在看待我都知道部長我想軍公教還有這個勞工現在我們大家都很關心先請問一下部長上週是司法法治委員會排審公務人員退休之前的撫恤法"},{"start":136.855,"end":154.353,"text":"那我想這一個進度我先不問你了因為你不是跟這個司法法制有關係喔但是部長當初年改修改後可以延後一個世代140年根據全區部上週四的報告如果按照啊蘭委所提出的版本啊通過以後退服基金用慶將提早4到5年發生喔"},{"start":157.737,"end":174.075,"text":"當初民進黨、深圳、澳大利亞、網軍、污名整個公務人員、然後煞有其事的由副總統主持軍公教年改委員整個大工程完以後只延後4到5年破產。部長請問一下我先問你勞保精算哪時候會再出爐?下一次的。出稿出來了嗎?年底就會出爐。出稿出來了嗎?"},{"start":182.823,"end":200.054,"text":"委員好跟委員報告因為今年是精算那現在精算是正在做最後的一個期末報告的修正好所以你們都還不能夠拿出正確的一個數字啦沒關係我就我手頭上目前最新的2021年的精算報告來問2021年精算報告是哪時候破產可以回答我嗎"},{"start":201.078,"end":202.7,"text":"公務及基金預算案關於勞動部主管預算案例"},{"start":221.814,"end":236.999,"text":"我先補充幾個資訊齁按照這幾年其實包括因為波普包括投資收益的增加二零二八年的這個數字看起來是很有機會會往後再延後的但這不代表沒有危機我要說這不代表沒有危機"},{"start":238.099,"end":240.402,"text":"三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算：僅"},{"start":259.161,"end":269.036,"text":"那請問部長民進黨修法後軍工交到140年破產目的是要保障一個世代的公平正義那如果勞保也要到140年破產請問一下需要撥補多少錢140年"},{"start":277.418,"end":294.955,"text":"我想幾千億幾千億的撥補就是現在的政策啦但是我要講的是最後還是破產所以到底是不是打假球我們要的改革是能夠勇士的我們要的改革是能夠大幅度的可是現在看到了你當立委也支持軍公教要改革"},{"start":295.975,"end":316.384,"text":"勞保可以撥補那為什麼當初軍工叫改革撥補不行為什麼勞保現在不敢召開年改委員會答案就是政治考量勞保要破產了病症已經非常嚴重了這八年來都不敢送改革方案只有撥補一圖為什麼不敢送一切都是因為選舉所以我希望勞保司的司長"},{"start":317.524,"end":332.615,"text":"勞保2028年我們就2021年的精算喔你有做這樣子的一個事務官的一個責任喔勞保年改的重要幕僚請問部長講的這些外我們師長能不能給予其他的一些解決方案喔又或者給部長一些建議呃我"},{"start":336.772,"end":356.136,"text":"你有沒有建議啦?直接說有或沒有啦?跟我們報告喔,我們現在做了撥補,我們會持續辦理。好啦,會後有些實際的建議方案喔,具體給我書面報告啦。那我想問喔,這個救安基金為什麼是勞動部的小金庫?也是行政院的小金庫?小金庫之名是怎麼來的?我們來了解一下,答案就是亂用嘛。"},{"start":356.616,"end":384.618,"text":"用途、名目、亂七八糟。部長我想問一下為什麼移民署查緝移工的獎金又編在救安基金裡面?跟文說明因為這跟移工的管理有關。我想法定職長的一個業務為什麼不回到移民署自己去編列預算?如果說移民署查緝外籍移工的獎金就用救安基金那移民署所有的人員薪水因為他們也在查緝移工啊他們要不要也編在救安基金裡面?"},{"start":385.479,"end":408.57,"text":"部長我們這個PTT後續我要先請你看一下你在2020年就發現救安基金被勞動部亂用拿去支付律師費是否現在問題是依舊我要說明的事情是第一個剛才在講到這個查緝移工的對不起我現在問你這個律師費現在救安基金是不是還在支應是不是還有嗎"},{"start":415.359,"end":440.829,"text":"還是問不出來到現在每次救安基金上次我才在罵救安基金必考題你們到現在還不知道2020年就發現救安基金有問題從2020到2024欸紅部長你身為立委的時候你發現他有問題你做了哪些處置你有杯葛預算嗎還是護航預算這一則貼文寫到經過許多朝野立委的溝通跟要求認為勞動部在溝通後轉變是一個好的開始請問部長當下"},{"start":445.031,"end":447.594,"text":"好的開始是什麼?那現在他還沒有再來跟勞工打官司?"},{"start":463.857,"end":482.734,"text":"我想用律師費這應該要一併檢討那律師費的部分到底有多少用在這邊是不是細項讓我知道一下有多少的救安基金還用在各個律師費的指引上我想救安基金就像魔戒大家都說不好可是不好然後又還一直用一直亂用"},{"start":483.434,"end":486.937,"text":"審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務：一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部部長列席報告業務．僅"},{"start":506.59,"end":522.592,"text":"而我覺得關於救安基金有多少用在比方說用在訴訟的過程這部分我們當然可以來做一個整理但我當時提出來的事情是因為這筆錢用在跟勞工打官司而我覺得我認為救安基金的使用應該是要站在"},{"start":523.313,"end":540.314,"text":"謝謝你的補充我聽到了但是我要講的是之前也有其他的委員對於救安基金各個細項能不能公開我們都予以關心喔所以我想我是認同的我希望救安基金所有的使用細項能夠因此而公開讓全民知道這部分您可以承諾嗎"},{"start":542.315,"end":560.027,"text":"跟委員說明齁在中央基金的這個整體的管理機制的檢討我們正在進行那我自己認為就資訊的揭露上面我認為我們可以做更多做更多包括公開細項我覺得我們可以做更多"},{"start":562.332,"end":586.447,"text":"你就是在迴避問題嗎?只求對決讓全民知道你敢不敢公開?委員我沒有在迴避我現在正在面對這個問題我知道但是你不能每一次都說我可以做更多我可以關心但是你的關心程度到多少?你的具體項目是什麼?能不能公開?能不能實際上公開?委員我們正在檢討這件事情我知道你有在檢討然後我自己在態度上認為是可以公開更多"},{"start":586.887,"end":602.846,"text":"但執行面會處理到什麼程度這當然我覺得我們一些執行的細節上面我還要跟業務單位再做一些討論你這樣子詳細的說明我可以接受嘛可是你剛剛就直接說我可以來討論我們會來關心我不希望有這樣子的回答"},{"start":603.166,"end":605.169,"text":"三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部主管預算：僅"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1007,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（12時47分）謝謝召委，不好意思。"],["主席：羅委員請。"],["羅委員廷瑋：謝謝，有請部長。"],["主席：請洪部長。"],["洪部長申翰：羅委員好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長，我想勞團現在說要絕食抗議，我還是再一次問你，你會現場去接見，傾聽他們的訴求嗎？請您就實回答會跟不會。"],["洪部長申翰：現在我們會先把目前大家很關心的事情……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我知道你要去做改革，但是我所在意的是你會不會出席，會不會去接見他們？"],["洪部長申翰：我們會來關心。"],["羅委員廷瑋：你會本人去關心嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：我們會來關心。"],["羅委員廷瑋：對不起，你會本人去關心嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：我們會來關心。"],["羅委員廷瑋：對不起，我覺得你的回應都是在迴避，就跟他們絕食抗議的內容一樣，為什麼不能就我的問題來回答？我要求你來回答我的問題，我覺得我所看到的你，在之前勞團抗議的時候，你去現場做一個對話，到現在你做部長了，人走茶涼，拜託！有必要這樣嗎？部長，您說會關心，是您本人會去關心嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我們會把現在大家關心的這些訴求，盡力的來達成。"],["羅委員廷瑋：那你願不願意現場接見？"],["洪部長申翰：然後我們也會來關心。"],["羅委員廷瑋：你會不會現場接見，傾聽他們心聲？"],["洪部長申翰：我們會來關心。"],["羅委員廷瑋：當了5年的立委，現在轉任勞動部部長，我覺得真的不需要這樣子。你本身不是這樣的人，但是這樣子官僚、這樣子迴避問題，我覺得沒辦法接受"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我們沒有迴避問題，我們會來關心。"],["羅委員廷瑋：那你就直接去關心，你可不可以承諾我直接去關心他們？現場去傾聽他們，接受他們的意見。"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我們當然會來關心。"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長，我不跟你耗這個議題，現在勞保2028年要破產，你有什麼想法？"],["洪部長申翰：我跟委員說明……"],["羅委員廷瑋：來，我直接講，你要請人上來救你都沒關係。部長，軍公……"],["洪部長申翰：我先做說明好不好？"],["羅委員廷瑋：那你先回答我嘛！"],["洪部長申翰：好，今年勞保基金的水位已經破兆了，確實這幾年因為撥補，也包括基金的投資收益表現比預想中來得好，但是就整個勞保而言，所謂勞保破產跟勞保危機這個問題，我們還是非常非常審慎在看待。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我都知道，包括軍公教和勞工，現在我們大家都很關心，先請問一下部長，上週是司法及法制委員會排審公務人員退休資遣撫卹法，相關進度我先不問你，因為你不是跟司法及法制有關係，但是當初年改後說可以延後一個世代140年，根據銓敘部上週四的報告，如果按照藍委所提出的版本通過，退撫基金用罄將提早4到5年發生。當初民進黨聲勢浩大用網軍污名公務人員，然後煞有其事的由副總統主持軍公教年改委員會，這項大工程完成以後却只延後4到5年破產。部長請問一下，我先問你，下一次的勞保精算哪時候會再出爐？"],["洪部長申翰：年底就會出爐。"],["羅委員廷瑋：初稿出來了嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：年底就會出爐。"],["羅委員廷瑋：初稿出來了嗎？"],["白局長麗真：委員好，跟委員報告，因為今年是精算，現在精算師正在做最後期末報告的修正。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，所以你們都還不能夠拿出正確的數字，沒關係，我就我手頭上目前最新的2021年的精算報告來問。2021年精算報告是哪時候破產，可以回答我嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：2028年。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我們來瞭解一下，如果有說2028年要破產，有沒有考慮這幾年撥補的順序，這麼多勞工朋友，2028年破產還不處理嗎？有沒有考慮比照軍公教年改委員會，召開一個勞保年改委員會？我們擔心領不到嘛！"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我先補充幾個資訊，其實這幾年因為撥補及投資收益的增加，2028年這個數字看起來是很有機會會再延後的，但這不代表沒有危機，我要說這不代表沒有危機。"],["羅委員廷瑋：對，居安思危。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我們怕勞工領不到。"],["洪部長申翰：但是我剛才說的意思是，你剛才講的這個精算報告是2021年的精算報告說2028年會有這個狀況，但有可能可以再延後，以目前這幾年的數據看起來。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我們當然希望能夠延後，但是我現在要講的是，居安思危先行處理，我們都希望年底出來的報告是好的，但是我要講的是，現階段你不敢承諾，那請問部長，民進黨修法後軍公教到140年破產，目的是要保障一個世代的公平正義，如果勞保也要到140年破產，請問一下需要撥補多少錢？"],["洪部長申翰：140年……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想幾千億、幾千億的撥補，就是現在的政策啦！但我要講的是最後還是破產，所以到底是不是在打假球？我們要的改革是能夠永世的，我們要的改革是能夠大幅度的，可是現在看到了……你當立委時也支持軍公教要改革，勞保可以撥補，那為什麼當初軍公教改革撥補不行？為什麼勞保現在不敢召開年改委員會？答案就是政治考量，勞保要破產了，病症已經非常嚴重了，這8年來都不敢送改革方案，只有撥補一途，為什麼不敢送？一切都是因為選舉。所以我希望勞保司的司長，就2021年的精算，勞保2028年可能會破產，你有做為事務官的責任，也是勞保年改的重要幕僚，請問除了部長講的這些以外，司長能不能給予其他的解決方案，又或者給部長一些建議？司長，你有沒有建議？直接說有或沒有啦！"],["陳司長美女：跟委員報告，我們現在做的撥補，我們會持續辦理。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好啦！會後如果有些實際的建議方案，請具體給我書面報告。那我想問這個就安基金為什麼是勞動部的小金庫，也是行政院的小金庫？小金庫之名是怎麼來的，我們來了解一下，答案就是亂用嘛！用途名目亂七八糟，部長，我想問一下，為什麼移民署查緝移工的獎金又編在就安基金裡面？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，因為這跟移工的管理有關。"],["羅委員廷瑋：法定職掌的業務為什麼不回到移民署自己去編列預算？如果說移民署查緝外籍移工的獎金就用就安基金，那移民署所有人員的薪水，因為他們也在查緝移工啊！他們要不要也編在就安基金裡面？部長，這個PTT，我要先請你看一下，你在2020年就發現就安基金被勞動部亂用，拿去支付律師費，是否現在問題依舊？"],["洪部長申翰：委員我要說明的事情是，第一個，剛才講到查緝移工的部分……"],["羅委員廷瑋：對不起，我現在問你的是律師費，現在就安基金是不是還在支應，是不是？"],["洪部長申翰：還有嗎？業務單位……"],["羅委員廷瑋：到現在還是問不出來？每次都是就安基金！上次我才在罵，就安基金是必考題，但你們到現在還不知道。2020年就發現就安基金有問題，從2020年到2024年，洪部長身為立委的時候發現它有問題，你做了哪些處置？你有杯葛預算嗎？還是護航預算？這一則貼文寫到，經過許多朝野立委的溝通跟要求，認為勞動部在溝通後的轉變是一個好的開始。請問部長，當下好的開始是什麼？"],["洪部長申翰：委員我跟你說明，當時我提出來的事情是，我認為拿就安基金的錢跟勞工打官司有不妥之處，並不是所有的律師費我覺得都不行，而是他當時是拿來跟勞工打官司。"],["羅委員廷瑋：那現在他有沒有再跟勞工打官司？"],["洪部長申翰：沒有了，他們說沒有了。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想用律師費這應該要一律檢討。"],["洪部長申翰：業務單位說沒有了。"],["羅委員廷瑋：律師費的部分到底有多少用在這邊？是不是細項讓我知道一下，有多少的就安基金還用在各個律師費的支應上？","我想就安基金就像魔戒，大家都說不好，可是說不好卻還一直亂用，捨不得拿下來嘛！當年的洪立委在2024年做部長，你要怎麼處理就安基金？你難道也是被官僚主義同化嗎？我要求就安基金應該要有一個落日條款，應該要求115年度各部會不應該在就安基金裡面再繼續拿錢。律師費後續文書資料我希望提供一份給我，可以嗎？部長。"],["洪部長申翰：跟羅委員說明，我覺得關於就安基金有多少用在訴訟的過程，這部分我們當然可以來做一個整理，但我當時提出來的事情是因為這筆錢用在跟勞工打官司，我認為就安基金的使用，應該是要站在勞工的立場。"],["羅委員廷瑋：謝謝你的補充，我聽到了。"],["洪部長申翰：當時我認為的重點是在這個地方。"],["羅委員廷瑋：但是我要講的是，之前也有其他的委員對於就安基金各個細項能不能公開，我們都予以關心。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想我是認同的，我希望就安基金所有的使用細項能夠因此而公開，讓全民知道，這部分您可以承諾嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，在就安基金的……"],["羅委員廷瑋：你不要跟我講網路公告喔！"],["洪部長申翰：就安基金整體管理機制的檢討，我們正在進行，我自己認為就資訊的揭露上面，我認為我們可以做更多。"],["羅委員廷瑋：做更多包不包括公開細項？"],["洪部長申翰：我覺得我們可以做更多。"],["羅委員廷瑋：你就是在迴避問題嘛！"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我當然沒有迴避問題。"],["羅委員廷瑋：直球對決讓全民知道，你敢不敢公開？"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我沒有在迴避，我現在正在面對這個問題，我們正在檢討。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我知道，但是你不能每一次都說：我可以做更多，我可以關心……"],["洪部長申翰：我們正在檢討。"],["羅委員廷瑋：但是你的關心程度到多少？你的具體項目是什麼？能不能公開？能不能細項公開？"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我們正在檢討這件事情。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我知道你有在檢討。"],["洪部長申翰：我自己在態度上認為是可以公開更多，但執行面會處理到什麼程度，在一些執行的細節上面，我還要跟業務單位再做一些討論。"],["羅委員廷瑋：你這樣子詳細的說明，我可以接受。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：可是你剛剛就直接說：我可以來討論，我們會來關心。我不希望有這樣子的回答，我們就直球對決，你可以講述你窒礙難行的地方，我們會體諒，但我們不要聽到迴避。"],["洪部長申翰：羅委員，剛剛在講到資訊公開部分，我當然有回復，我都認為這部分確實是可以做更多。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我們會後繼續討論。謝謝召委，召委沒站起來，但是給我這麼多時間，不好意思。"],["洪部長申翰：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝羅廷瑋委員的發言，謝謝部長跟各級同仁。我們休息20分鐘。","休息（12時57分）","繼續開會（13時18分）"],["主席：現在繼續開會。","下一位麻煩麥玉珍委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":196,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-13","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","王育敏","涂權吉","盧縣一","陳瑩","蘇清泉","陳培瑜","林淑芬","賴士葆","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","洪孟楷","羅廷瑋","麥玉珍","楊曜","王正旭","黃國昌","張啓楷","劉建國","翁曉玲","王鴻薇","張雅琳"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-09"],"gazette_id":"1140403","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140403_00002","1140403_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案\n關於勞動部主管預算（公務及基金預算）；三、審查勞動部函送財團法人職業災害預防及重建中心\n114年度預算書案【所列預算案，僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1140403_00001"}}}