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\"懲\"}, {\"word\": \"罪\", \"start\": 947.138, \"end\": 947.238, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 947.238, \"end\": 947.279, \"score\": 0.453}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 947.279, \"end\": 947.299, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"：\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 965.788, \"end\": 965.808, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"．\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,758 --> 00:00:08,780\n有請邱部長部長早部長早上週屢次召開的這個霸凌案調查記者會你有什麼感想我們\n\n2\n00:00:25,712 --> 00:00:47,227\n當然有嚴肅的心情來面對所有相關的事件。那我們也要求一定一切要秉公處理、依法辦理。然後我們也成立了調查的...部長,我是問的是你的感想。你在想說你們會有一些原則。上週的記者會我只有八個字給部長。官官相護、避重就輕。\n\n3\n00:00:48,688 --> 00:01:04,938\n勞動部第一次的調查報告和部長還說是嘔心瀝血的報告．引發衝怒欸然後部長你也不遑多讓說這是用心高規格的調查那我們就來看一下有多用心有多高規格啊\n\n4\n00:01:05,998 --> 00:01:06,619\n應該是調查的結論\n\n5\n00:01:24,422 --> 00:01:24,482\n因為我們...呃...\n\n6\n00:01:45,731 --> 00:02:08,017\n我們這次的調查是非常深度跟廣度也尊重外部專家的一個非常專業的一個來評判為什麼不能公開那因為他其實我們在訪談當中牽涉到非常多的同仁\n\n7\n00:02:08,937 --> 00:02:30,336\n那這些同仁我們必須要做自閉化該蓋黑的就塗黑嘛這個你要報查報告還是要出來你現在是不是可以立刻請業務單位把調查報告上網做得到嗎勞動部都做到了你做不到嗎我現在給你時間馬上交代我要上網去看報告可以嗎請調查小組的召集人李次長\n\n8\n00:02:31,016 --> 00:02:50,146\n為什麼我要報告就好我不要你怎麼做的我要調查報告也非常感謝委員的這個關心那我跟委員做一個簡單報告因為其實我們這個部分確實有96位同仁他受到訪談那麼在訪談的過程裡面這些有講到就不用了金融導遊才不用嘛還是希望不具名因為這裡面會簽到就是說不具名沒問題啊不具名沒問題啊\n\n9\n00:02:53,228 --> 00:03:00,730\n可是這裡面因為有一些同仁他們還是希望就是說可能可能有一些那你就是還沒有做好嘛那個報告還不確實嘛我們其實都已經做好那麼這裡面我們還是要考量同仁他們的這個隱私還有你可以把identity蓋好那其實我們也透過這次的這一個詳細的審查\n\n10\n00:03:11,833 --> 00:03:17,216\n您在糊弄我啦!您在糊弄我!你要重新講一次故事!好!這不是我要的答案!市長請回!市長請回!後續行政校給調!我等一下執行完回去我就要看啊!我要看調查報告啊!你乾脆就處理啊!勞動部做得到你做不到啊!\n\n11\n00:03:36,085 --> 00:03:36,846\n主席是李正德次長\n\n12\n00:03:59,693 --> 00:04:13,367\n不是啊,有衛福部官員跟我說啊因為劉益娟主秘是防護小組的主席本次是因為迴避啊暫時由次長代替但是劉益娟現在還是主秘啊那之後她是不是可以看調閱報告她可不可以知道是約談了哪些人這些被約談的講了什麼話部長請告訴我她可不可以看得到\n\n13\n00:04:19,571 --> 00:04:34,744\n我想我們這次的調查報告是人事處長就能不能看得到這些內容告訴我就好這些調查報告目前都是密件目前?但是他回到他還在組密啊?不會不會因為安全防護小組現在的召集人自從自從組密我們原來的組密是跟個召集人\n\n14\n00:05:05,081 --> 00:05:10,047\n您覺得在這種氛圍之下,衛福部有辦法做出符合事實的調查嗎?只要劉玉娟一天在主命的位置上,就沒有人敢說真話?今天劉玉娟有來嗎?沒有啊,因為你把她免監的那個社保司啊\n\n15\n00:05:25,578 --> 00:05:35,779\n他是完成順利的升官啊他免監社保司啊他除掉的工作負荷啊但是他還是可以監督社保司啊你讓他成功的升官還在主命的位置上啊\n\n16\n00:05:36,994 --> 00:05:58,845\n讓他繼續不受監督,他不用來這裡了啊。為什麼不當一人之下、萬人之下,只去作威作福?社保司的工作是非常重要,而且牽涉到整個我們賢敏健保相關法案的一個法案是一個非常重要的一個工作。沒有人才了嗎?不要騙我啦,人才很多啦,不差他一個。上次子晴被我叫上來還裝無辜,那他跟錄音檔裡面叫人家去自殺。\n\n17\n00:06:02,947 --> 00:06:03,267\n喔!\n\n18\n00:06:03,267 --> 00:06:03,887\n那個語氣真是天壤之別阿!\n\n19\n00:06:03,887 --> 00:06:04,047\n不然你有聽到嗎?你有聽到嗎?\n\n20\n00:06:04,047 --> 00:06:07,889\n那錄音帶你有聽到嗎?部長這種人你確定要繼續保他官位嗎?你確定要繼續保他官位嗎?阿不是已經多少週了嗎?你現在還在跟我講原來你還沒有做完你就把調查報告送出來阿和部長之前也很嘴硬阿結果下午就辭職了阿\n\n21\n00:06:30,817 --> 00:06:30,957\n報告委員．\n\n22\n00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:47,441\n市長請你留在台上\n\n23\n00:07:02,518 --> 00:07:17,591\n你竟然要一直上門就留在台上竟然說劉玉娟是以不當的比喻要求同仁序自我找出問題的嚴重性才不會被他殺部長我覺得整個衛福部的高層完全沒有從勞動部的教訓悲劇得到教訓叫下屬去自殺表示誠意這個叫比喻失當喔他講多少次叫人家去親身欸\n\n24\n00:07:24,059 --> 00:07:24,099\n陳昭姿\n\n25\n00:07:40,307 --> 00:07:51,994\n你一直在聽他說話嗎?報告委員他的意思就是說你要對外要公開要把細節講得清楚他的意思就是說你要先自己先處理你如果自己沒有先處理的話那麼你等到外界來的話那這樣可能就不妥所以他的整個脈絡是這樣啦所以我會說這個比喻真的是真的不當所以我們也覺得就是說這個部分應該可以\n\n26\n00:08:05,572 --> 00:08:26,841\n部長,像劉玉娟這種高壓領導、言語霸凌,你敢不會煩惱補助,像北分署一樣無信同仁一樣做出無法挽救的選擇嗎?你真的要等鬧出人命嗎?好,我現在唸一個訊息給你聽,好嗎?來。委員好,這封信是在沉痛的心情下寫的。感謝委員舉發劉市長的惡舉。當看到委員的咨詢時,知道終於有人會關注。\n\n27\n00:08:28,061 --> 00:08:47,147\n辛苦、受苦的同仁就在前幾天一位同仁輾轉告訴我臺北業務組一位濟姓同仁在109年6月在家自殺身亡他本身是虔誠的基督徒一個基督徒為何會自殺當然如委員之前所述SOP的結論就是濟姓員工因憂鬱症而自殺死亡\n\n28\n00:08:48,500 --> 00:09:10,205\n與主管管教無關然而該科是由五六位同仁要求做心理輔導這件事的處理是由劉司長以及他當時的心腹賴信科長一起處理至於如何處理事實如何外人無法得知也無法進一步查證畢竟當時的劉組長現在已經高升衛福部的主命當時的賴信科長也高升本署的\n\n29\n00:09:11,452 --> 00:09:33,488\n屬本部的副組長請問關關相互下誰敢說這位同仁表達是因為他看不下去一直都留著這位寄信同仁的副文這還是都還是陳昭姿寫的希望將來有一天能還這位同仁清白今天的調查結果一定不會有以上的案情說明果然是沒有這樣就證明總統及行政院長卓院長的指示根本不會落實還受這個能夠還給這個受冤者清白好我們看這個\n\n30\n00:09:43,215 --> 00:10:01,309\n這就是大衛親身的建保署台北業務組同仁的副文這是四年前的事當時建保署台北業務組的組長就是劉玉娟我想你可能不清楚劉玉娟在建保署台北業務組的時候裡面的員工有多痛苦根本是度日如年我再念一段陳情文給你聽\n\n31\n00:10:02,905 --> 00:10:24,491\n劉司長於109年3月接掌健保署臺北業務組組長這是臺北業務組同仁夢夜的開始一、有位同仁儘管現在已經退休他說他到現在只要聽到劉司長的一切消息手仍然會顫抖他只想要忘記這段過去拒絕談論這一切但他希望有人能夠勇敢的站出來舉發二、有兩位科長因受不了劉司長的\n\n32\n00:10:26,191 --> 00:10:51,910\n長官領導風格括號自動降調為非主管降調另外有一位專委三位科長被逼退休由於目前仍在署內的資訊同仁署本部資訊長官只能盡量用會議的名稱名義讓他回署本部逃離工作現場這是這仍然是他寫的這是我最近所聽聞的一切一切聽聞當然也是要以署理依據總統及行政院長的指示一一要調查清楚及釐清\n\n33\n00:10:52,330 --> 00:11:15,527\n但是仍然令人失望有人跟我說這種問卷調查結果會有很大的失真不是所有同仁都知道只給新進人員所以受傷的很多很多人都不知道有這份問卷調查甚至含杯離職或退休人都不知道有這份問卷所以在職的同仁及離職的同仁都認為問卷調查內容還只限於工作量的合理與否故意避開擴權濫權\n\n34\n00:11:18,129 --> 00:11:24,912\n所以填了也沒有效用因為他們是同一伙的關關相互對於做限制性的問卷調查敢怒不敢言這就是衛福部同仁的心聲希望你們聽進去我們絕對依規定並公處理\n\n35\n00:11:36,497 --> 00:12:01,789\n至於這一件事件剛剛您說的是一件事件我們也了解得相當清楚請理事說明一下報告委員其實這個事件我們都很遺憾但是據我們了解這個狀況事實上同仁十多年前就已經有接受相關的一個就已經接受治療那其實這個有關的整個事件發生跟調查情況市政委員都可以查證那其實老實說發生這個情況我們真的都不樂見但是我要強調這個事實上就整個時序上部長\n\n36\n00:12:05,290 --> 00:12:25,455\n你以為我打當事人的家屬過來嗎?我們也不樂見有心人士來刻意操作這種不幸的事件來影射,老實說對於這個家長還有對於同仁事實上都是一個整個二度的災害。市長,你既然知道這件事的過程,除了霸凌之外：如果委員如果有了解,我們都可以把相關的就醫紀錄跟報告來跟委員報告,謝謝。然後你的廢話我都不聽了,部長,這股一間醫學大樓的性騷案你有沒有注意到這個新聞?性騷案!\n\n37\n00:12:27,435 --> 00:12:38,639\n根據新聞報導,某位國內知名的婦產科全衛西教授性騷擾6名住院研究醫師而且已經經過臺大醫院性評會、教評會調查確認。博定,你覺得已經經過確認該如何處置這位醫師?博定你說\n\n38\n00:12:44,107 --> 00:13:05,558\n我想醫師如果涉及性騷擾性侵害或者是性別除了應該由雇主以性騷擾防治法性別就性別性平三法的規定來辦理或者由司法機關追來部長我要跟你講這位西教授不甘心唷堂鼠利用\n\n39\n00:13:06,979 --> 00:13:11,264\n業務機會犯罪行為經判刑確定或執行業務違反醫學倫理德醫醫師法第25條規定由醫師工會或主管機關依附懲戒。我想現在...我沒看到啦!我沒看到懲戒啦!這個徐教授不甘心還要找這個同為\n\n40\n00:13:23,279 --> 00:13:31,483\n國內婦產科大佬的總統府資政求救．這個資政還因此打電話給臺大校長陳文章關說甚至這個西教授現在已經轉到這個資政在臺中的任職這樣的安排OK嗎?你剛剛說從理、準理跟專業的角度我要告訴你不定婦產科醫師被認為性騷確認婦產科醫師的工作就是會牽涉接觸到女性最隱密的檢查\n\n41\n00:13:50,704 --> 00:14:15,378\n該醫院還怎麼說?什麼教會叫護理人員一旁監視?內診的時候換別的醫師做?簡直是亂來啊!不中!這是那幾位受害的醫師、女醫師。她跟我們部內的某個立法委討論之後,她寫了很多建議報告。我念兩點給你聽。姓邵名醫離職台大後,現職醫院隨便說內診。\n\n42\n00:14:17,259 --> 00:14:22,965\n改別人接手他看診然後等內責改別人醫師接手但實際上衍生恐掛名跟實際執行醫師不一致的全責釐清問題當醫療糾紛出現的時候怎麼辦好很重要的不管是加碼人員條例第22條跟明文規定曾有性侵害、性騷擾、性剝削或內在兒童性行為不得在幼兒園服務或是營養師\n\n43\n00:14:37,499 --> 00:15:03,619\n第二條,營養師法第6條規定,懲犯訴清嚴毒條例、麻醉藥品管理條例或危害毒品危害條例等,並經判決認定不能擔任營養師。啊,那,沒中。啊,一個副廠科醫師已經被好多名醫師這樣子確認,性騷確認。我要告訴你們這些醫師喔,他不只是被摸到腦臀部甚至還被摸進內褲,只能向院方申請保護令,禁止那位醫師靠近。\n\n44\n00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,265\n而且信騷的醫師們甚至要到專科醫師考完\n\n45\n00:15:09,588 --> 00:15:11,069\n站出來檢舉都在擔心我有一天會不會被秋後算帳不定\n\n46\n00:15:41,716 --> 00:15:47,299\n醫師懲罪委員會可以依照他的情節、輕重、予以懲罪所謂：包括限制他的職業範圍：你認為他適合進行做婦產科醫師嗎?你認為他適合進行做婦產科醫師嗎?這個應該由醫師懲罪委員會來處理：\n\n47\n00:16:05,788 --> 00:16:05,808\n謝謝委員．謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5758\t8780\t有請邱部長部長早部長早上週屢次召開的這個霸凌案調查記者會你有什麼感想我們\n25712\t47227\t當然有嚴肅的心情來面對所有相關的事件。那我們也要求一定一切要秉公處理、依法辦理。然後我們也成立了調查的...部長,我是問的是你的感想。你在想說你們會有一些原則。上週的記者會我只有八個字給部長。官官相護、避重就輕。\n48688\t64938\t勞動部第一次的調查報告和部長還說是嘔心瀝血的報告．引發衝怒欸然後部長你也不遑多讓說這是用心高規格的調查那我們就來看一下有多用心有多高規格啊\n65998\t66619\t應該是調查的結論\n84422\t84482\t因為我們...呃...\n105731\t128017\t我們這次的調查是非常深度跟廣度也尊重外部專家的一個非常專業的一個來評判為什麼不能公開那因為他其實我們在訪談當中牽涉到非常多的同仁\n128937\t150336\t那這些同仁我們必須要做自閉化該蓋黑的就塗黑嘛 這個你要報查報告還是要出來你現在是不是可以立刻請業務單位把調查報告上網做得到嗎勞動部都做到了你做不到嗎我現在給你時間馬上交代我要上網去看報告可以嗎請調查小組的召集人李次長\n151016\t170146\t為什麼我要報告就好 我不要你怎麼做的 我要調查報告也非常感謝委員的這個關心 那我跟委員做一個簡單報告 因為其實我們這個部分確實有96位同仁他受到訪談 那麼在訪談的過程裡面這些有講到就不用了 金融導遊才不用嘛還是希望不具名 因為這裡面會簽到就是說不具名沒問題啊 不具名沒問題啊\n173228\t180730\t可是這裡面因為有一些同仁他們還是希望就是說可能可能有一些那你就是還沒有做好嘛那個報告還不確實嘛我們其實都已經做好那麼這裡面我們還是要考量同仁他們的這個隱私還有你可以把identity蓋好那其實我們也透過這次的這一個詳細的審查\n191833\t197216\t您在糊弄我啦!您在糊弄我!你要重新講一次故事!好!這不是我要的答案!市長請回!市長請回!後續行政校給調!我等一下執行完回去我就要看啊!我要看調查報告啊!你乾脆就處理啊!勞動部做得到你做不到啊!\n216085\t216846\t主席是李正德次長\n239693\t253367\t不是啊,有衛福部官員跟我說啊因為劉益娟主秘是防護小組的主席本次是因為迴避啊暫時由次長代替但是劉益娟現在還是主秘啊那之後她是不是可以看調閱報告她可不可以知道是約談了哪些人這些被約談的講了什麼話部長請告訴我她可不可以看得到\n259571\t274744\t我想我們這次的調查報告是人事處長就能不能看得到這些內容告訴我就好這些調查報告目前都是密件目前?但是他回到他還在組密啊?不會不會因為安全防護小組現在的召集人自從自從組密我們原來的組密是跟個召集人\n285794\t304821\t議員．\n305081\t310047\t您覺得在這種氛圍之下,衛福部有辦法做出符合事實的調查嗎?只要劉玉娟一天在主命的位置上,就沒有人敢說真話?今天劉玉娟有來嗎?沒有啊,因為你把她免監的那個社保司啊\n325578\t335779\t他是完成順利的升官啊他免監社保司啊他除掉的工作負荷啊但是他還是可以監督社保司啊你讓他成功的升官還在主命的位置上啊\n336994\t358845\t讓他繼續不受監督,他不用來這裡了啊。為什麼不當一人之下、萬人之下,只去作威作福?社保司的工作是非常重要,而且牽涉到整個我們賢敏健保相關法案的一個法案是一個非常重要的一個工作。沒有人才了嗎?不要騙我啦,人才很多啦,不差他一個。上次子晴被我叫上來還裝無辜,那他跟錄音檔裡面叫人家去自殺。\n362947\t363267\t喔!\n363267\t363887\t那個語氣真是天壤之別阿!\n363887\t364047\t不然你有聽到嗎?你有聽到嗎?\n364047\t367889\t那錄音帶你有聽到嗎?部長這種人你確定要繼續保他官位嗎?你確定要繼續保他官位嗎?阿不是已經多少週了嗎?你現在還在跟我講原來你還沒有做完你就把調查報告送出來阿和部長之前也很嘴硬阿結果下午就辭職了阿\n390817\t390957\t報告委員．\n407080\t407441\t市長請你留在台上\n422518\t437591\t你竟然要一直上門就留在台上竟然說劉玉娟是以不當的比喻要求同仁序自我找出問題的嚴重性才不會被他殺部長我覺得整個衛福部的高層完全沒有從勞動部的教訓悲劇得到教訓叫下屬去自殺表示誠意這個叫比喻失當喔他講多少次叫人家去親身欸\n444059\t444099\t陳昭姿\n460307\t471994\t你一直在聽他說話嗎?報告委員他的意思就是說你要對外要公開要把細節講得清楚他的意思就是說你要先自己先處理你如果自己沒有先處理的話那麼你等到外界來的話那這樣可能就不妥所以他的整個脈絡是這樣啦所以我會說這個比喻真的是真的不當所以我們也覺得就是說這個部分應該可以\n485572\t506841\t部長,像劉玉娟這種高壓領導、言語霸凌,你敢不會煩惱補助,像北分署一樣無信同仁一樣做出無法挽救的選擇嗎?你真的要等鬧出人命嗎?好,我現在唸一個訊息給你聽,好嗎?來。委員好,這封信是在沉痛的心情下寫的。感謝委員舉發劉市長的惡舉。當看到委員的咨詢時,知道終於有人會關注。\n508061\t527147\t辛苦、受苦的同仁就在前幾天一位同仁輾轉告訴我臺北業務組一位濟姓同仁在109年6月在家自殺身亡他本身是虔誠的基督徒一個基督徒為何會自殺當然如委員之前所述SOP的結論就是濟姓員工因憂鬱症而自殺死亡\n528500\t550205\t與主管管教無關然而該科是由五六位同仁要求做心理輔導這件事的處理是由劉司長以及他當時的心腹賴信科長一起處理至於如何處理事實如何外人無法得知也無法進一步查證畢竟當時的劉組長現在已經高升衛福部的主命當時的賴信科長也高升本署的\n551452\t573488\t屬本部的副組長請問關關相互下誰敢說這位同仁表達是因為他看不下去一直都留著這位寄信同仁的副文這還是都還是陳昭姿寫的希望將來有一天能還這位同仁清白今天的調查結果一定不會有以上的案情說明果然是沒有這樣就證明總統及行政院長卓院長的指示根本不會落實還受這個能夠還給這個受冤者清白好我們看這個\n583215\t601309\t這就是大衛親身的建保署台北業務組同仁的副文這是四年前的事當時建保署台北業務組的組長就是劉玉娟我想你可能不清楚劉玉娟在建保署台北業務組的時候裡面的員工有多痛苦根本是度日如年我再念一段陳情文給你聽\n602905\t624491\t劉司長於109年3月接掌健保署臺北業務組組長這是臺北業務組同仁夢夜的開始一、有位同仁儘管現在已經退休他說他到現在只要聽到劉司長的一切消息手仍然會顫抖他只想要忘記這段過去拒絕談論這一切但他希望有人能夠勇敢的站出來舉發二、有兩位科長因受不了劉司長的\n626191\t651910\t長官領導風格括號自動降調為非主管降調另外有一位專委三位科長被逼退休由於目前仍在署內的資訊同仁署本部資訊長官只能盡量用會議的名稱名義讓他回署本部逃離工作現場這是這仍然是他寫的這是我最近所聽聞的一切一切聽聞當然也是要以署理依據總統及行政院長的指示一一要調查清楚及釐清\n652330\t675527\t但是仍然令人失望有人跟我說這種問卷調查結果會有很大的失真不是所有同仁都知道只給新進人員所以受傷的很多很多人都不知道有這份問卷調查甚至含杯離職或退休人都不知道有這份問卷所以在職的同仁及離職的同仁都認為問卷調查內容還只限於工作量的合理與否故意避開擴權濫權\n678129\t684912\t所以填了也沒有效用因為他們是同一伙的關關相互對於做限制性的問卷調查敢怒不敢言這就是衛福部同仁的心聲希望你們聽進去我們絕對依規定並公處理\n696497\t721789\t至於這一件事件剛剛您說的是一件事件我們也了解得相當清楚請理事說明一下報告委員其實這個事件我們都很遺憾但是據我們了解這個狀況事實上同仁十多年前就已經有接受相關的一個就已經接受治療那其實這個有關的整個事件發生跟調查情況市政委員都可以查證那其實老實說發生這個情況我們真的都不樂見但是我要強調這個事實上就整個時序上部長\n725290\t745455\t你以為我打當事人的家屬過來嗎?我們也不樂見有心人士來刻意操作這種不幸的事件來影射,老實說對於這個家長還有對於同仁事實上都是一個整個二度的災害。市長,你既然知道這件事的過程,除了霸凌之外：如果委員如果有了解,我們都可以把相關的就醫紀錄跟報告來跟委員報告,謝謝。然後你的廢話我都不聽了,部長,這股一間醫學大樓的性騷案你有沒有注意到這個新聞?性騷案!\n747435\t758639\t根據新聞報導,某位國內知名的婦產科全衛西教授性騷擾6名住院研究醫師而且已經經過臺大醫院性評會、教評會調查確認。博定,你覺得已經經過確認該如何處置這位醫師?博定你說\n764107\t785558\t我想醫師如果涉及性騷擾性侵害或者是性別除了應該由雇主以性騷擾防治法性別就性別性平三法的規定來辦理或者由司法機關追來部長我要跟你講這位西教授不甘心唷堂鼠利用\n786979\t791264\t業務機會犯罪行為經判刑確定或執行業務違反醫學倫理德醫醫師法第25條規定由醫師工會或主管機關依附懲戒。我想現在...我沒看到啦!我沒看到懲戒啦!這個徐教授不甘心還要找這個同為\n803279\t811483\t國內婦產科大佬的總統府資政求救．這個資政還因此打電話給臺大校長陳文章關說甚至這個西教授現在已經轉到這個資政在臺中的任職這樣的安排OK嗎?你剛剛說從理、準理跟專業的角度我要告訴你不定婦產科醫師被認為性騷確認婦產科醫師的工作就是會牽涉接觸到女性最隱密的檢查\n830704\t855378\t該醫院還怎麼說?什麼教會叫護理人員一旁監視?內診的時候換別的醫師做?簡直是亂來啊!不中!這是那幾位受害的醫師、女醫師。她跟我們部內的某個立法委討論之後,她寫了很多建議報告。我念兩點給你聽。姓邵名醫離職台大後,現職醫院隨便說內診。\n857259\t862965\t改別人接手他看診然後等內責改別人醫師接手但實際上衍生恐掛名跟實際執行醫師不一致的全責釐清問題當醫療糾紛出現的時候怎麼辦好很重要的不管是加碼人員條例第22條跟明文規定曾有性侵害、性騷擾、性剝削或內在兒童性行為不得在幼兒園服務或是營養師\n877499\t903619\t第二條,營養師法第6條規定,懲犯訴清嚴毒條例、麻醉藥品管理條例或危害毒品危害條例等,並經判決認定不能擔任營養師。啊,那,沒中。啊,一個副廠科醫師已經被好多名醫師這樣子確認,性騷確認。我要告訴你們這些醫師喔,他不只是被摸到腦臀部甚至還被摸進內褲,只能向院方申請保護令,禁止那位醫師靠近。\n904480\t908265\t而且信騷的醫師們甚至要到專科醫師考完\n909588\t911069\t站出來檢舉都在擔心我有一天會不會被秋後算帳不定\n941716\t947299\t醫師懲罪委員會可以依照他的情節、輕重、予以懲罪所謂：包括限制他的職業範圍：你認為他適合進行做婦產科醫師嗎?你認為他適合進行做婦產科醫師嗎?這個應該由醫師懲罪委員會來處理：\n965788\t965808\t謝謝委員．謝謝\n","txt":"有請邱部長部長早部長早上週屢次召開的這個霸凌案調查記者會你有什麼感想我們\n當然有嚴肅的心情來面對所有相關的事件。那我們也要求一定一切要秉公處理、依法辦理。然後我們也成立了調查的...部長,我是問的是你的感想。你在想說你們會有一些原則。上週的記者會我只有八個字給部長。官官相護、避重就輕。\n勞動部第一次的調查報告和部長還說是嘔心瀝血的報告．引發衝怒欸然後部長你也不遑多讓說這是用心高規格的調查那我們就來看一下有多用心有多高規格啊\n應該是調查的結論\n因為我們...呃...\n我們這次的調查是非常深度跟廣度也尊重外部專家的一個非常專業的一個來評判為什麼不能公開那因為他其實我們在訪談當中牽涉到非常多的同仁\n那這些同仁我們必須要做自閉化該蓋黑的就塗黑嘛 這個你要報查報告還是要出來你現在是不是可以立刻請業務單位把調查報告上網做得到嗎勞動部都做到了你做不到嗎我現在給你時間馬上交代我要上網去看報告可以嗎請調查小組的召集人李次長\n為什麼我要報告就好 我不要你怎麼做的 我要調查報告也非常感謝委員的這個關心 那我跟委員做一個簡單報告 因為其實我們這個部分確實有96位同仁他受到訪談 那麼在訪談的過程裡面這些有講到就不用了 金融導遊才不用嘛還是希望不具名 因為這裡面會簽到就是說不具名沒問題啊 不具名沒問題啊\n可是這裡面因為有一些同仁他們還是希望就是說可能可能有一些那你就是還沒有做好嘛那個報告還不確實嘛我們其實都已經做好那麼這裡面我們還是要考量同仁他們的這個隱私還有你可以把identity蓋好那其實我們也透過這次的這一個詳細的審查\n您在糊弄我啦!您在糊弄我!你要重新講一次故事!好!這不是我要的答案!市長請回!市長請回!後續行政校給調!我等一下執行完回去我就要看啊!我要看調查報告啊!你乾脆就處理啊!勞動部做得到你做不到啊!\n主席是李正德次長\n不是啊,有衛福部官員跟我說啊因為劉益娟主秘是防護小組的主席本次是因為迴避啊暫時由次長代替但是劉益娟現在還是主秘啊那之後她是不是可以看調閱報告她可不可以知道是約談了哪些人這些被約談的講了什麼話部長請告訴我她可不可以看得到\n我想我們這次的調查報告是人事處長就能不能看得到這些內容告訴我就好這些調查報告目前都是密件目前?但是他回到他還在組密啊?不會不會因為安全防護小組現在的召集人自從自從組密我們原來的組密是跟個召集人\n議員．\n您覺得在這種氛圍之下,衛福部有辦法做出符合事實的調查嗎?只要劉玉娟一天在主命的位置上,就沒有人敢說真話?今天劉玉娟有來嗎?沒有啊,因為你把她免監的那個社保司啊\n他是完成順利的升官啊他免監社保司啊他除掉的工作負荷啊但是他還是可以監督社保司啊你讓他成功的升官還在主命的位置上啊\n讓他繼續不受監督,他不用來這裡了啊。為什麼不當一人之下、萬人之下,只去作威作福?社保司的工作是非常重要,而且牽涉到整個我們賢敏健保相關法案的一個法案是一個非常重要的一個工作。沒有人才了嗎?不要騙我啦,人才很多啦,不差他一個。上次子晴被我叫上來還裝無辜,那他跟錄音檔裡面叫人家去自殺。\n喔!\n那個語氣真是天壤之別阿!\n不然你有聽到嗎?你有聽到嗎?\n那錄音帶你有聽到嗎?部長這種人你確定要繼續保他官位嗎?你確定要繼續保他官位嗎?阿不是已經多少週了嗎?你現在還在跟我講原來你還沒有做完你就把調查報告送出來阿和部長之前也很嘴硬阿結果下午就辭職了阿\n報告委員．\n市長請你留在台上\n你竟然要一直上門就留在台上竟然說劉玉娟是以不當的比喻要求同仁序自我找出問題的嚴重性才不會被他殺部長我覺得整個衛福部的高層完全沒有從勞動部的教訓悲劇得到教訓叫下屬去自殺表示誠意這個叫比喻失當喔他講多少次叫人家去親身欸\n陳昭姿\n你一直在聽他說話嗎?報告委員他的意思就是說你要對外要公開要把細節講得清楚他的意思就是說你要先自己先處理你如果自己沒有先處理的話那麼你等到外界來的話那這樣可能就不妥所以他的整個脈絡是這樣啦所以我會說這個比喻真的是真的不當所以我們也覺得就是說這個部分應該可以\n部長,像劉玉娟這種高壓領導、言語霸凌,你敢不會煩惱補助,像北分署一樣無信同仁一樣做出無法挽救的選擇嗎?你真的要等鬧出人命嗎?好,我現在唸一個訊息給你聽,好嗎?來。委員好,這封信是在沉痛的心情下寫的。感謝委員舉發劉市長的惡舉。當看到委員的咨詢時,知道終於有人會關注。\n辛苦、受苦的同仁就在前幾天一位同仁輾轉告訴我臺北業務組一位濟姓同仁在109年6月在家自殺身亡他本身是虔誠的基督徒一個基督徒為何會自殺當然如委員之前所述SOP的結論就是濟姓員工因憂鬱症而自殺死亡\n與主管管教無關然而該科是由五六位同仁要求做心理輔導這件事的處理是由劉司長以及他當時的心腹賴信科長一起處理至於如何處理事實如何外人無法得知也無法進一步查證畢竟當時的劉組長現在已經高升衛福部的主命當時的賴信科長也高升本署的\n屬本部的副組長請問關關相互下誰敢說這位同仁表達是因為他看不下去一直都留著這位寄信同仁的副文這還是都還是陳昭姿寫的希望將來有一天能還這位同仁清白今天的調查結果一定不會有以上的案情說明果然是沒有這樣就證明總統及行政院長卓院長的指示根本不會落實還受這個能夠還給這個受冤者清白好我們看這個\n這就是大衛親身的建保署台北業務組同仁的副文這是四年前的事當時建保署台北業務組的組長就是劉玉娟我想你可能不清楚劉玉娟在建保署台北業務組的時候裡面的員工有多痛苦根本是度日如年我再念一段陳情文給你聽\n劉司長於109年3月接掌健保署臺北業務組組長這是臺北業務組同仁夢夜的開始一、有位同仁儘管現在已經退休他說他到現在只要聽到劉司長的一切消息手仍然會顫抖他只想要忘記這段過去拒絕談論這一切但他希望有人能夠勇敢的站出來舉發二、有兩位科長因受不了劉司長的\n長官領導風格括號自動降調為非主管降調另外有一位專委三位科長被逼退休由於目前仍在署內的資訊同仁署本部資訊長官只能盡量用會議的名稱名義讓他回署本部逃離工作現場這是這仍然是他寫的這是我最近所聽聞的一切一切聽聞當然也是要以署理依據總統及行政院長的指示一一要調查清楚及釐清\n但是仍然令人失望有人跟我說這種問卷調查結果會有很大的失真不是所有同仁都知道只給新進人員所以受傷的很多很多人都不知道有這份問卷調查甚至含杯離職或退休人都不知道有這份問卷所以在職的同仁及離職的同仁都認為問卷調查內容還只限於工作量的合理與否故意避開擴權濫權\n所以填了也沒有效用因為他們是同一伙的關關相互對於做限制性的問卷調查敢怒不敢言這就是衛福部同仁的心聲希望你們聽進去我們絕對依規定並公處理\n至於這一件事件剛剛您說的是一件事件我們也了解得相當清楚請理事說明一下報告委員其實這個事件我們都很遺憾但是據我們了解這個狀況事實上同仁十多年前就已經有接受相關的一個就已經接受治療那其實這個有關的整個事件發生跟調查情況市政委員都可以查證那其實老實說發生這個情況我們真的都不樂見但是我要強調這個事實上就整個時序上部長\n你以為我打當事人的家屬過來嗎?我們也不樂見有心人士來刻意操作這種不幸的事件來影射,老實說對於這個家長還有對於同仁事實上都是一個整個二度的災害。市長,你既然知道這件事的過程,除了霸凌之外：如果委員如果有了解,我們都可以把相關的就醫紀錄跟報告來跟委員報告,謝謝。然後你的廢話我都不聽了,部長,這股一間醫學大樓的性騷案你有沒有注意到這個新聞?性騷案!\n根據新聞報導,某位國內知名的婦產科全衛西教授性騷擾6名住院研究醫師而且已經經過臺大醫院性評會、教評會調查確認。博定,你覺得已經經過確認該如何處置這位醫師?博定你說\n我想醫師如果涉及性騷擾性侵害或者是性別除了應該由雇主以性騷擾防治法性別就性別性平三法的規定來辦理或者由司法機關追來部長我要跟你講這位西教授不甘心唷堂鼠利用\n業務機會犯罪行為經判刑確定或執行業務違反醫學倫理德醫醫師法第25條規定由醫師工會或主管機關依附懲戒。我想現在...我沒看到啦!我沒看到懲戒啦!這個徐教授不甘心還要找這個同為\n國內婦產科大佬的總統府資政求救．這個資政還因此打電話給臺大校長陳文章關說甚至這個西教授現在已經轉到這個資政在臺中的任職這樣的安排OK嗎?你剛剛說從理、準理跟專業的角度我要告訴你不定婦產科醫師被認為性騷確認婦產科醫師的工作就是會牽涉接觸到女性最隱密的檢查\n該醫院還怎麼說?什麼教會叫護理人員一旁監視?內診的時候換別的醫師做?簡直是亂來啊!不中!這是那幾位受害的醫師、女醫師。她跟我們部內的某個立法委討論之後,她寫了很多建議報告。我念兩點給你聽。姓邵名醫離職台大後,現職醫院隨便說內診。\n改別人接手他看診然後等內責改別人醫師接手但實際上衍生恐掛名跟實際執行醫師不一致的全責釐清問題當醫療糾紛出現的時候怎麼辦好很重要的不管是加碼人員條例第22條跟明文規定曾有性侵害、性騷擾、性剝削或內在兒童性行為不得在幼兒園服務或是營養師\n第二條,營養師法第6條規定,懲犯訴清嚴毒條例、麻醉藥品管理條例或危害毒品危害條例等,並經判決認定不能擔任營養師。啊,那,沒中。啊,一個副廠科醫師已經被好多名醫師這樣子確認,性騷確認。我要告訴你們這些醫師喔,他不只是被摸到腦臀部甚至還被摸進內褲,只能向院方申請保護令,禁止那位醫師靠近。\n而且信騷的醫師們甚至要到專科醫師考完\n站出來檢舉都在擔心我有一天會不會被秋後算帳不定\n醫師懲罪委員會可以依照他的情節、輕重、予以懲罪所謂：包括限制他的職業範圍：你認為他適合進行做婦產科醫師嗎?你認為他適合進行做婦產科醫師嗎?這個應該由醫師懲罪委員會來處理：\n謝謝委員．謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.758 --> 00:08.780\n有請邱部長部長早部長早上週屢次召開的這個霸凌案調查記者會你有什麼感想我們\n\n00:25.712 --> 00:47.227\n當然有嚴肅的心情來面對所有相關的事件。那我們也要求一定一切要秉公處理、依法辦理。然後我們也成立了調查的...部長,我是問的是你的感想。你在想說你們會有一些原則。上週的記者會我只有八個字給部長。官官相護、避重就輕。\n\n00:48.688 --> 01:04.938\n勞動部第一次的調查報告和部長還說是嘔心瀝血的報告．引發衝怒欸然後部長你也不遑多讓說這是用心高規格的調查那我們就來看一下有多用心有多高規格啊\n\n01:05.998 --> 01:06.619\n應該是調查的結論\n\n01:24.422 --> 01:24.482\n因為我們...呃...\n\n01:45.731 --> 02:08.017\n我們這次的調查是非常深度跟廣度也尊重外部專家的一個非常專業的一個來評判為什麼不能公開那因為他其實我們在訪談當中牽涉到非常多的同仁\n\n02:08.937 --> 02:30.336\n那這些同仁我們必須要做自閉化該蓋黑的就塗黑嘛這個你要報查報告還是要出來你現在是不是可以立刻請業務單位把調查報告上網做得到嗎勞動部都做到了你做不到嗎我現在給你時間馬上交代我要上網去看報告可以嗎請調查小組的召集人李次長\n\n02:31.016 --> 02:50.146\n為什麼我要報告就好我不要你怎麼做的我要調查報告也非常感謝委員的這個關心那我跟委員做一個簡單報告因為其實我們這個部分確實有96位同仁他受到訪談那麼在訪談的過程裡面這些有講到就不用了金融導遊才不用嘛還是希望不具名因為這裡面會簽到就是說不具名沒問題啊不具名沒問題啊\n\n02:53.228 --> 03:00.730\n可是這裡面因為有一些同仁他們還是希望就是說可能可能有一些那你就是還沒有做好嘛那個報告還不確實嘛我們其實都已經做好那麼這裡面我們還是要考量同仁他們的這個隱私還有你可以把identity蓋好那其實我們也透過這次的這一個詳細的審查\n\n03:11.833 --> 03:17.216\n您在糊弄我啦!您在糊弄我!你要重新講一次故事!好!這不是我要的答案!市長請回!市長請回!後續行政校給調!我等一下執行完回去我就要看啊!我要看調查報告啊!你乾脆就處理啊!勞動部做得到你做不到啊!\n\n03:36.085 --> 03:36.846\n主席是李正德次長\n\n03:59.693 --> 04:13.367\n不是啊,有衛福部官員跟我說啊因為劉益娟主秘是防護小組的主席本次是因為迴避啊暫時由次長代替但是劉益娟現在還是主秘啊那之後她是不是可以看調閱報告她可不可以知道是約談了哪些人這些被約談的講了什麼話部長請告訴我她可不可以看得到\n\n04:19.571 --> 04:34.744\n我想我們這次的調查報告是人事處長就能不能看得到這些內容告訴我就好這些調查報告目前都是密件目前?但是他回到他還在組密啊?不會不會因為安全防護小組現在的召集人自從自從組密我們原來的組密是跟個召集人\n\n05:05.081 --> 05:10.047\n您覺得在這種氛圍之下,衛福部有辦法做出符合事實的調查嗎?只要劉玉娟一天在主命的位置上,就沒有人敢說真話?今天劉玉娟有來嗎?沒有啊,因為你把她免監的那個社保司啊\n\n05:25.578 --> 05:35.779\n他是完成順利的升官啊他免監社保司啊他除掉的工作負荷啊但是他還是可以監督社保司啊你讓他成功的升官還在主命的位置上啊\n\n05:36.994 --> 05:58.845\n讓他繼續不受監督,他不用來這裡了啊。為什麼不當一人之下、萬人之下,只去作威作福?社保司的工作是非常重要,而且牽涉到整個我們賢敏健保相關法案的一個法案是一個非常重要的一個工作。沒有人才了嗎?不要騙我啦,人才很多啦,不差他一個。上次子晴被我叫上來還裝無辜,那他跟錄音檔裡面叫人家去自殺。\n\n06:02.947 --> 06:03.267\n喔!\n\n06:03.267 --> 06:03.887\n那個語氣真是天壤之別阿!\n\n06:03.887 --> 06:04.047\n不然你有聽到嗎?你有聽到嗎?\n\n06:04.047 --> 06:07.889\n那錄音帶你有聽到嗎?部長這種人你確定要繼續保他官位嗎?你確定要繼續保他官位嗎?阿不是已經多少週了嗎?你現在還在跟我講原來你還沒有做完你就把調查報告送出來阿和部長之前也很嘴硬阿結果下午就辭職了阿\n\n06:30.817 --> 06:30.957\n報告委員．\n\n06:47.080 --> 06:47.441\n市長請你留在台上\n\n07:02.518 --> 07:17.591\n你竟然要一直上門就留在台上竟然說劉玉娟是以不當的比喻要求同仁序自我找出問題的嚴重性才不會被他殺部長我覺得整個衛福部的高層完全沒有從勞動部的教訓悲劇得到教訓叫下屬去自殺表示誠意這個叫比喻失當喔他講多少次叫人家去親身欸\n\n07:24.059 --> 07:24.099\n陳昭姿\n\n07:40.307 --> 07:51.994\n你一直在聽他說話嗎?報告委員他的意思就是說你要對外要公開要把細節講得清楚他的意思就是說你要先自己先處理你如果自己沒有先處理的話那麼你等到外界來的話那這樣可能就不妥所以他的整個脈絡是這樣啦所以我會說這個比喻真的是真的不當所以我們也覺得就是說這個部分應該可以\n\n08:05.572 --> 08:26.841\n部長,像劉玉娟這種高壓領導、言語霸凌,你敢不會煩惱補助,像北分署一樣無信同仁一樣做出無法挽救的選擇嗎?你真的要等鬧出人命嗎?好,我現在唸一個訊息給你聽,好嗎?來。委員好,這封信是在沉痛的心情下寫的。感謝委員舉發劉市長的惡舉。當看到委員的咨詢時,知道終於有人會關注。\n\n08:28.061 --> 08:47.147\n辛苦、受苦的同仁就在前幾天一位同仁輾轉告訴我臺北業務組一位濟姓同仁在109年6月在家自殺身亡他本身是虔誠的基督徒一個基督徒為何會自殺當然如委員之前所述SOP的結論就是濟姓員工因憂鬱症而自殺死亡\n\n08:48.500 --> 09:10.205\n與主管管教無關然而該科是由五六位同仁要求做心理輔導這件事的處理是由劉司長以及他當時的心腹賴信科長一起處理至於如何處理事實如何外人無法得知也無法進一步查證畢竟當時的劉組長現在已經高升衛福部的主命當時的賴信科長也高升本署的\n\n09:11.452 --> 09:33.488\n屬本部的副組長請問關關相互下誰敢說這位同仁表達是因為他看不下去一直都留著這位寄信同仁的副文這還是都還是陳昭姿寫的希望將來有一天能還這位同仁清白今天的調查結果一定不會有以上的案情說明果然是沒有這樣就證明總統及行政院長卓院長的指示根本不會落實還受這個能夠還給這個受冤者清白好我們看這個\n\n09:43.215 --> 10:01.309\n這就是大衛親身的建保署台北業務組同仁的副文這是四年前的事當時建保署台北業務組的組長就是劉玉娟我想你可能不清楚劉玉娟在建保署台北業務組的時候裡面的員工有多痛苦根本是度日如年我再念一段陳情文給你聽\n\n10:02.905 --> 10:24.491\n劉司長於109年3月接掌健保署臺北業務組組長這是臺北業務組同仁夢夜的開始一、有位同仁儘管現在已經退休他說他到現在只要聽到劉司長的一切消息手仍然會顫抖他只想要忘記這段過去拒絕談論這一切但他希望有人能夠勇敢的站出來舉發二、有兩位科長因受不了劉司長的\n\n10:26.191 --> 10:51.910\n長官領導風格括號自動降調為非主管降調另外有一位專委三位科長被逼退休由於目前仍在署內的資訊同仁署本部資訊長官只能盡量用會議的名稱名義讓他回署本部逃離工作現場這是這仍然是他寫的這是我最近所聽聞的一切一切聽聞當然也是要以署理依據總統及行政院長的指示一一要調查清楚及釐清\n\n10:52.330 --> 11:15.527\n但是仍然令人失望有人跟我說這種問卷調查結果會有很大的失真不是所有同仁都知道只給新進人員所以受傷的很多很多人都不知道有這份問卷調查甚至含杯離職或退休人都不知道有這份問卷所以在職的同仁及離職的同仁都認為問卷調查內容還只限於工作量的合理與否故意避開擴權濫權\n\n11:18.129 --> 11:24.912\n所以填了也沒有效用因為他們是同一伙的關關相互對於做限制性的問卷調查敢怒不敢言這就是衛福部同仁的心聲希望你們聽進去我們絕對依規定並公處理\n\n11:36.497 --> 12:01.789\n至於這一件事件剛剛您說的是一件事件我們也了解得相當清楚請理事說明一下報告委員其實這個事件我們都很遺憾但是據我們了解這個狀況事實上同仁十多年前就已經有接受相關的一個就已經接受治療那其實這個有關的整個事件發生跟調查情況市政委員都可以查證那其實老實說發生這個情況我們真的都不樂見但是我要強調這個事實上就整個時序上部長\n\n12:05.290 --> 12:25.455\n你以為我打當事人的家屬過來嗎?我們也不樂見有心人士來刻意操作這種不幸的事件來影射,老實說對於這個家長還有對於同仁事實上都是一個整個二度的災害。市長,你既然知道這件事的過程,除了霸凌之外：如果委員如果有了解,我們都可以把相關的就醫紀錄跟報告來跟委員報告,謝謝。然後你的廢話我都不聽了,部長,這股一間醫學大樓的性騷案你有沒有注意到這個新聞?性騷案!\n\n12:27.435 --> 12:38.639\n根據新聞報導,某位國內知名的婦產科全衛西教授性騷擾6名住院研究醫師而且已經經過臺大醫院性評會、教評會調查確認。博定,你覺得已經經過確認該如何處置這位醫師?博定你說\n\n12:44.107 --> 13:05.558\n我想醫師如果涉及性騷擾性侵害或者是性別除了應該由雇主以性騷擾防治法性別就性別性平三法的規定來辦理或者由司法機關追來部長我要跟你講這位西教授不甘心唷堂鼠利用\n\n13:06.979 --> 13:11.264\n業務機會犯罪行為經判刑確定或執行業務違反醫學倫理德醫醫師法第25條規定由醫師工會或主管機關依附懲戒。我想現在...我沒看到啦!我沒看到懲戒啦!這個徐教授不甘心還要找這個同為\n\n13:23.279 --> 13:31.483\n國內婦產科大佬的總統府資政求救．這個資政還因此打電話給臺大校長陳文章關說甚至這個西教授現在已經轉到這個資政在臺中的任職這樣的安排OK嗎?你剛剛說從理、準理跟專業的角度我要告訴你不定婦產科醫師被認為性騷確認婦產科醫師的工作就是會牽涉接觸到女性最隱密的檢查\n\n13:50.704 --> 14:15.378\n該醫院還怎麼說?什麼教會叫護理人員一旁監視?內診的時候換別的醫師做?簡直是亂來啊!不中!這是那幾位受害的醫師、女醫師。她跟我們部內的某個立法委討論之後,她寫了很多建議報告。我念兩點給你聽。姓邵名醫離職台大後,現職醫院隨便說內診。\n\n14:17.259 --> 14:22.965\n改別人接手他看診然後等內責改別人醫師接手但實際上衍生恐掛名跟實際執行醫師不一致的全責釐清問題當醫療糾紛出現的時候怎麼辦好很重要的不管是加碼人員條例第22條跟明文規定曾有性侵害、性騷擾、性剝削或內在兒童性行為不得在幼兒園服務或是營養師\n\n14:37.499 --> 15:03.619\n第二條,營養師法第6條規定,懲犯訴清嚴毒條例、麻醉藥品管理條例或危害毒品危害條例等,並經判決認定不能擔任營養師。啊,那,沒中。啊,一個副廠科醫師已經被好多名醫師這樣子確認,性騷確認。我要告訴你們這些醫師喔,他不只是被摸到腦臀部甚至還被摸進內褲,只能向院方申請保護令,禁止那位醫師靠近。\n\n15:04.480 --> 15:08.265\n而且信騷的醫師們甚至要到專科醫師考完\n\n15:09.588 --> 15:11.069\n站出來檢舉都在擔心我有一天會不會被秋後算帳不定\n\n15:41.716 --> 15:47.299\n醫師懲罪委員會可以依照他的情節、輕重、予以懲罪所謂：包括限制他的職業範圍：你認為他適合進行做婦產科醫師嗎?你認為他適合進行做婦產科醫師嗎?這個應該由醫師懲罪委員會來處理：\n\n16:05.788 --> 16:05.808\n謝謝委員．謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.758,"end":8.78,"text":"有請邱部長部長早部長早上週屢次召開的這個霸凌案調查記者會你有什麼感想我們"},{"start":25.712,"end":47.227,"text":"當然有嚴肅的心情來面對所有相關的事件。那我們也要求一定一切要秉公處理、依法辦理。然後我們也成立了調查的...部長,我是問的是你的感想。你在想說你們會有一些原則。上週的記者會我只有八個字給部長。官官相護、避重就輕。"},{"start":48.688,"end":64.938,"text":"勞動部第一次的調查報告和部長還說是嘔心瀝血的報告．引發衝怒欸然後部長你也不遑多讓說這是用心高規格的調查那我們就來看一下有多用心有多高規格啊"},{"start":65.998,"end":66.619,"text":"應該是調查的結論"},{"start":84.422,"end":84.482,"text":"因為我們...呃..."},{"start":105.731,"end":128.017,"text":"我們這次的調查是非常深度跟廣度也尊重外部專家的一個非常專業的一個來評判為什麼不能公開那因為他其實我們在訪談當中牽涉到非常多的同仁"},{"start":128.937,"end":150.336,"text":"那這些同仁我們必須要做自閉化該蓋黑的就塗黑嘛 這個你要報查報告還是要出來你現在是不是可以立刻請業務單位把調查報告上網做得到嗎勞動部都做到了你做不到嗎我現在給你時間馬上交代我要上網去看報告可以嗎請調查小組的召集人李次長"},{"start":151.016,"end":170.146,"text":"為什麼我要報告就好 我不要你怎麼做的 我要調查報告也非常感謝委員的這個關心 那我跟委員做一個簡單報告 因為其實我們這個部分確實有96位同仁他受到訪談 那麼在訪談的過程裡面這些有講到就不用了 金融導遊才不用嘛還是希望不具名 因為這裡面會簽到就是說不具名沒問題啊 不具名沒問題啊"},{"start":173.228,"end":180.73,"text":"可是這裡面因為有一些同仁他們還是希望就是說可能可能有一些那你就是還沒有做好嘛那個報告還不確實嘛我們其實都已經做好那麼這裡面我們還是要考量同仁他們的這個隱私還有你可以把identity蓋好那其實我們也透過這次的這一個詳細的審查"},{"start":191.833,"end":197.216,"text":"您在糊弄我啦!您在糊弄我!你要重新講一次故事!好!這不是我要的答案!市長請回!市長請回!後續行政校給調!我等一下執行完回去我就要看啊!我要看調查報告啊!你乾脆就處理啊!勞動部做得到你做不到啊!"},{"start":216.085,"end":216.846,"text":"主席是李正德次長"},{"start":239.693,"end":253.367,"text":"不是啊,有衛福部官員跟我說啊因為劉益娟主秘是防護小組的主席本次是因為迴避啊暫時由次長代替但是劉益娟現在還是主秘啊那之後她是不是可以看調閱報告她可不可以知道是約談了哪些人這些被約談的講了什麼話部長請告訴我她可不可以看得到"},{"start":259.571,"end":274.744,"text":"我想我們這次的調查報告是人事處長就能不能看得到這些內容告訴我就好這些調查報告目前都是密件目前?但是他回到他還在組密啊?不會不會因為安全防護小組現在的召集人自從自從組密我們原來的組密是跟個召集人"},{"start":285.794,"end":304.821,"text":"議員．"},{"start":305.081,"end":310.047,"text":"您覺得在這種氛圍之下,衛福部有辦法做出符合事實的調查嗎?只要劉玉娟一天在主命的位置上,就沒有人敢說真話?今天劉玉娟有來嗎?沒有啊,因為你把她免監的那個社保司啊"},{"start":325.578,"end":335.779,"text":"他是完成順利的升官啊他免監社保司啊他除掉的工作負荷啊但是他還是可以監督社保司啊你讓他成功的升官還在主命的位置上啊"},{"start":336.994,"end":358.845,"text":"讓他繼續不受監督,他不用來這裡了啊。為什麼不當一人之下、萬人之下,只去作威作福?社保司的工作是非常重要,而且牽涉到整個我們賢敏健保相關法案的一個法案是一個非常重要的一個工作。沒有人才了嗎?不要騙我啦,人才很多啦,不差他一個。上次子晴被我叫上來還裝無辜,那他跟錄音檔裡面叫人家去自殺。"},{"start":362.947,"end":363.267,"text":"喔!"},{"start":363.267,"end":363.887,"text":"那個語氣真是天壤之別阿!"},{"start":363.887,"end":364.047,"text":"不然你有聽到嗎?你有聽到嗎?"},{"start":364.047,"end":367.889,"text":"那錄音帶你有聽到嗎?部長這種人你確定要繼續保他官位嗎?你確定要繼續保他官位嗎?阿不是已經多少週了嗎?你現在還在跟我講原來你還沒有做完你就把調查報告送出來阿和部長之前也很嘴硬阿結果下午就辭職了阿"},{"start":390.817,"end":390.957,"text":"報告委員．"},{"start":407.08,"end":407.441,"text":"市長請你留在台上"},{"start":422.518,"end":437.591,"text":"你竟然要一直上門就留在台上竟然說劉玉娟是以不當的比喻要求同仁序自我找出問題的嚴重性才不會被他殺部長我覺得整個衛福部的高層完全沒有從勞動部的教訓悲劇得到教訓叫下屬去自殺表示誠意這個叫比喻失當喔他講多少次叫人家去親身欸"},{"start":444.059,"end":444.099,"text":"陳昭姿"},{"start":460.307,"end":471.994,"text":"你一直在聽他說話嗎?報告委員他的意思就是說你要對外要公開要把細節講得清楚他的意思就是說你要先自己先處理你如果自己沒有先處理的話那麼你等到外界來的話那這樣可能就不妥所以他的整個脈絡是這樣啦所以我會說這個比喻真的是真的不當所以我們也覺得就是說這個部分應該可以"},{"start":485.572,"end":506.841,"text":"部長,像劉玉娟這種高壓領導、言語霸凌,你敢不會煩惱補助,像北分署一樣無信同仁一樣做出無法挽救的選擇嗎?你真的要等鬧出人命嗎?好,我現在唸一個訊息給你聽,好嗎?來。委員好,這封信是在沉痛的心情下寫的。感謝委員舉發劉市長的惡舉。當看到委員的咨詢時,知道終於有人會關注。"},{"start":508.061,"end":527.147,"text":"辛苦、受苦的同仁就在前幾天一位同仁輾轉告訴我臺北業務組一位濟姓同仁在109年6月在家自殺身亡他本身是虔誠的基督徒一個基督徒為何會自殺當然如委員之前所述SOP的結論就是濟姓員工因憂鬱症而自殺死亡"},{"start":528.5,"end":550.205,"text":"與主管管教無關然而該科是由五六位同仁要求做心理輔導這件事的處理是由劉司長以及他當時的心腹賴信科長一起處理至於如何處理事實如何外人無法得知也無法進一步查證畢竟當時的劉組長現在已經高升衛福部的主命當時的賴信科長也高升本署的"},{"start":551.452,"end":573.488,"text":"屬本部的副組長請問關關相互下誰敢說這位同仁表達是因為他看不下去一直都留著這位寄信同仁的副文這還是都還是陳昭姿寫的希望將來有一天能還這位同仁清白今天的調查結果一定不會有以上的案情說明果然是沒有這樣就證明總統及行政院長卓院長的指示根本不會落實還受這個能夠還給這個受冤者清白好我們看這個"},{"start":583.215,"end":601.309,"text":"這就是大衛親身的建保署台北業務組同仁的副文這是四年前的事當時建保署台北業務組的組長就是劉玉娟我想你可能不清楚劉玉娟在建保署台北業務組的時候裡面的員工有多痛苦根本是度日如年我再念一段陳情文給你聽"},{"start":602.905,"end":624.491,"text":"劉司長於109年3月接掌健保署臺北業務組組長這是臺北業務組同仁夢夜的開始一、有位同仁儘管現在已經退休他說他到現在只要聽到劉司長的一切消息手仍然會顫抖他只想要忘記這段過去拒絕談論這一切但他希望有人能夠勇敢的站出來舉發二、有兩位科長因受不了劉司長的"},{"start":626.191,"end":651.91,"text":"長官領導風格括號自動降調為非主管降調另外有一位專委三位科長被逼退休由於目前仍在署內的資訊同仁署本部資訊長官只能盡量用會議的名稱名義讓他回署本部逃離工作現場這是這仍然是他寫的這是我最近所聽聞的一切一切聽聞當然也是要以署理依據總統及行政院長的指示一一要調查清楚及釐清"},{"start":652.33,"end":675.527,"text":"但是仍然令人失望有人跟我說這種問卷調查結果會有很大的失真不是所有同仁都知道只給新進人員所以受傷的很多很多人都不知道有這份問卷調查甚至含杯離職或退休人都不知道有這份問卷所以在職的同仁及離職的同仁都認為問卷調查內容還只限於工作量的合理與否故意避開擴權濫權"},{"start":678.129,"end":684.912,"text":"所以填了也沒有效用因為他們是同一伙的關關相互對於做限制性的問卷調查敢怒不敢言這就是衛福部同仁的心聲希望你們聽進去我們絕對依規定並公處理"},{"start":696.497,"end":721.789,"text":"至於這一件事件剛剛您說的是一件事件我們也了解得相當清楚請理事說明一下報告委員其實這個事件我們都很遺憾但是據我們了解這個狀況事實上同仁十多年前就已經有接受相關的一個就已經接受治療那其實這個有關的整個事件發生跟調查情況市政委員都可以查證那其實老實說發生這個情況我們真的都不樂見但是我要強調這個事實上就整個時序上部長"},{"start":725.29,"end":745.455,"text":"你以為我打當事人的家屬過來嗎?我們也不樂見有心人士來刻意操作這種不幸的事件來影射,老實說對於這個家長還有對於同仁事實上都是一個整個二度的災害。市長,你既然知道這件事的過程,除了霸凌之外：如果委員如果有了解,我們都可以把相關的就醫紀錄跟報告來跟委員報告,謝謝。然後你的廢話我都不聽了,部長,這股一間醫學大樓的性騷案你有沒有注意到這個新聞?性騷案!"},{"start":747.435,"end":758.639,"text":"根據新聞報導,某位國內知名的婦產科全衛西教授性騷擾6名住院研究醫師而且已經經過臺大醫院性評會、教評會調查確認。博定,你覺得已經經過確認該如何處置這位醫師?博定你說"},{"start":764.107,"end":785.558,"text":"我想醫師如果涉及性騷擾性侵害或者是性別除了應該由雇主以性騷擾防治法性別就性別性平三法的規定來辦理或者由司法機關追來部長我要跟你講這位西教授不甘心唷堂鼠利用"},{"start":786.979,"end":791.264,"text":"業務機會犯罪行為經判刑確定或執行業務違反醫學倫理德醫醫師法第25條規定由醫師工會或主管機關依附懲戒。我想現在...我沒看到啦!我沒看到懲戒啦!這個徐教授不甘心還要找這個同為"},{"start":803.279,"end":811.483,"text":"國內婦產科大佬的總統府資政求救．這個資政還因此打電話給臺大校長陳文章關說甚至這個西教授現在已經轉到這個資政在臺中的任職這樣的安排OK嗎?你剛剛說從理、準理跟專業的角度我要告訴你不定婦產科醫師被認為性騷確認婦產科醫師的工作就是會牽涉接觸到女性最隱密的檢查"},{"start":830.704,"end":855.378,"text":"該醫院還怎麼說?什麼教會叫護理人員一旁監視?內診的時候換別的醫師做?簡直是亂來啊!不中!這是那幾位受害的醫師、女醫師。她跟我們部內的某個立法委討論之後,她寫了很多建議報告。我念兩點給你聽。姓邵名醫離職台大後,現職醫院隨便說內診。"},{"start":857.259,"end":862.965,"text":"改別人接手他看診然後等內責改別人醫師接手但實際上衍生恐掛名跟實際執行醫師不一致的全責釐清問題當醫療糾紛出現的時候怎麼辦好很重要的不管是加碼人員條例第22條跟明文規定曾有性侵害、性騷擾、性剝削或內在兒童性行為不得在幼兒園服務或是營養師"},{"start":877.499,"end":903.619,"text":"第二條,營養師法第6條規定,懲犯訴清嚴毒條例、麻醉藥品管理條例或危害毒品危害條例等,並經判決認定不能擔任營養師。啊,那,沒中。啊,一個副廠科醫師已經被好多名醫師這樣子確認,性騷確認。我要告訴你們這些醫師喔,他不只是被摸到腦臀部甚至還被摸進內褲,只能向院方申請保護令,禁止那位醫師靠近。"},{"start":904.48,"end":908.265,"text":"而且信騷的醫師們甚至要到專科醫師考完"},{"start":909.588,"end":911.069,"text":"站出來檢舉都在擔心我有一天會不會被秋後算帳不定"},{"start":941.716,"end":947.299,"text":"醫師懲罪委員會可以依照他的情節、輕重、予以懲罪所謂：包括限制他的職業範圍：你認為他適合進行做婦產科醫師嗎?你認為他適合進行做婦產科醫師嗎?這個應該由醫師懲罪委員會來處理："},{"start":965.788,"end":965.808,"text":"謝謝委員．謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":793,"blocks":[["陳委員昭姿：（9時15分）有請邱部長。"],["主席：部長，請。"],["邱部長泰源：委員早。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長早。部長，上週呂次召開霸凌案調查記者會，你有什麼感想？"],["邱部長泰源：我們當然用嚴肅的心情來面對所有相關的事件，也要求一定一切要秉公處理、依法辦理，然後我們也成立了調查的……"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，我問的是你的感想，我想你們會有一些原則。對於上週的記者會，我只有8個字給部長：官官相護，避重就輕！勞動部第1次的調查報告，何部長還說是嘔心瀝血的報告，引發眾怒；然後部長，你也不遑多讓，說這是用心、高規格的調查。我們就來看一下有多用心、有多高規格。","部長，你們衛福部總共調查了8個案子，上週的記者會就丟出1張A4的新聞稿，請問這張新聞稿是等於調查報告嗎？是嗎？部長，請你回答，是不是等於調查報告？"],["邱部長泰源：應該是調查的結論。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，它不是調查報告，那為什麼不公開完整的調查報告呢？勞動部無論是第1次的調查或第2次重啟調查的記者會，都當下立即把調查報告傳上網，公開給社會大眾看，衛福部為什麼不敢公開呢？請回答。"],["邱部長泰源：因為我們這次的調查是非常深度跟廣度，也請外……也尊重外部……"],["陳委員昭姿：為什麼勞動部有跑出人命了，都可以公開？"],["邱部長泰源：尊重外部專家非常專業的評斷。"],["陳委員昭姿：為什麼不能公開？"],["邱部長泰源：其實我們在訪談當中牽涉到非常多的同仁，對於這些同仁我們必須要做去識別化……"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，該蓋黑的就塗黑嘛！你的調查報告還是要出來，你現在是不是可以立刻請業務單位把調查報告上網？做得到嗎？勞動部都做到了，你做不到嗎？我現在給你時間馬上交代，我質詢完回辦公室要上網去看報告，可以吧？"],["邱部長泰源：好，我們請調查小組的召集人呂次長……"],["陳委員昭姿：我要報告就好，我不要你怎麼做，我要調查報告。"],["呂次長建德：主席，也非常感謝委員的關心。我跟委員做一個簡單報告，其實我們這個部分確實有96位同仁受到訪談，在訪談的過程裡面基本上……"],["陳委員昭姿：這些有講到就不用，新聞稿有講到就不用了。"],["呂次長建德：他們基本上還是希望不具名，因為這裡面會牽涉到……"],["陳委員昭姿：不具名沒問題啊！不具名沒問題啊！"],["呂次長建德：對，可是這裡面因為有一些同仁他們還是希望可能也有一些目前……"],["陳委員昭姿：那你就是還沒有做好嘛！那個報告還不確實嘛！"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，我們其實都已經做好……"],["陳委員昭姿：你有困難？"],["呂次長建德：這裡面還是要考量同仁他們的隱私，其實事實上還有後續的一些情況……"],["陳委員昭姿：你可以把identity蓋好。"],["呂次長建德：其實我們也透過這次的審查……"],["陳委員昭姿：好，次長，請稍等……"],["呂次長建德：其實很多同仁他們願意站出來……"],["陳委員昭姿：你在糊弄我啦！"],["呂次長建德：我們都非常尊重，正是這樣整個……"],["陳委員昭姿：你在糊弄我，你在重講一次故事。好，這不是我要的答案！"],["呂次長建德：我覺得好不容易建立起來信心，我們應該要來好好保護同仁……"],["陳委員昭姿：好，次長請回！"],["呂次長建德：所以我想這個部分還是對於後續同仁的保護……"],["陳委員昭姿：後續你什麼時候要……我等一下質詢完回去，我就要看啊！我要看調查報告啊！你該處理就處理啊！"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，我想這個部分恐怕也是要來仔細……"],["陳委員昭姿：勞動部做得到，你做不到啊！"],["呂次長建德：還是要來保護……"],["陳委員昭姿：好，次長，請回！"],["呂次長建德：感謝委員，謝謝。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，各機關依照公務人員安全及衛生防護辦法，都要組成安全衛生防護小組，督導機關內部人員遭受不法侵害的處理，當然包括霸凌案。請問衛福部內部的防護小組有哪些成員？主席是誰？"],["邱部長泰源：主席是呂建德次長。"],["陳委員昭姿：不是啊！有衛福部官員跟我說劉玉娟主秘是防護小組的主席，本次是因為迴避，暫時由次長代替，但是劉玉娟現在還是主秘，之後他是不是可以看、調閱報告？他可不可以知道約談了哪些人、這些被約談的人講了什麼話？部長，請告訴我，他可不可以看得到？"],["邱部長泰源：我想我們這次的調查報告是……","人事處處長他……"],["陳委員昭姿：就能不能看得到這些內容告訴我就好。"],["李處長玉惠：這些調查報告目前都是密件。"],["陳委員昭姿：目前？"],["李處長玉惠：對。"],["陳委員昭姿：但是他回到……他還是主秘啊！"],["李處長玉惠：不會、不會、不會、不會。"],["陳委員昭姿：你如何處理讓他看不到？他是主席啊！"],["李處長玉惠：不是，因為安全防護小組現在的召集人自從主秘……我們原來主秘是召集人，可是他列案之後，我們立即換成我們的政務次長。"],["陳委員昭姿：已經撤換掉了，但是他是主秘，他還是主秘喔！"],["李處長玉惠：不會、不會，因為相關的關係人都不會看到報告。謝謝。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，我了解，你要告訴我這一份報告……我不知道多久，他暫時看不到，我只理解他暫時看不到。部長，你知道部內的員工現在很害怕嗎？怕被劉玉娟秋後算帳。你覺得在這種氛圍之下，衛福部有辦法作出符合事實的調查嗎？只要劉玉娟一天在主秘的位子上，就沒有人敢說真話。今天劉玉娟有來嗎？沒有啊！因為你把他免兼社保司司長，他是完全順利地升官，他免兼社保司司長，他除掉了工作負荷，但是他還是可以監督社保司，你讓他成功地升官，還在主秘的位子上，讓他繼續不受監督，他不用來這裡了啊！"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，社保司……"],["陳委員昭姿：在衛福部一人之下、萬人之上，繼續作威作福！"],["邱部長泰源：社保司的工作是非常重要，而且它牽涉到整個全民健保相關法案，是一個非常重要的……"],["陳委員昭姿：沒有人才了嗎？不要騙我了！人才很多啦！不差他一個！上次質詢被我叫上來，還裝無辜！跟他在錄音檔裡面叫人家去自殺，那個語氣真的是天壤之別啊！部長，你有聽到嗎？你有聽到嗎？那個錄音帶你有聽到嗎？部長，這種人，你確定要繼續保他官位嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：錄音帶當然我有聽到，但是我必須要說明，對錄音帶我們一定要詳細地把前面、後面連結到整個，才能對他公平……"],["陳委員昭姿：不是已經都做了嗎？你現在還在跟我講……原來你還沒有做完，就把調查報告送出來。何部長之前也很嘴硬，結果下午就辭職了！"],["呂次長建德：報告委員……"],["陳委員昭姿：你如果繼續這個態度，你是不是也準備撐不久了呢？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，委員剛剛所垂詢的這個，其實事實上有它的脈絡的，據我們內部調查，我們了解就是說……"],["陳委員昭姿：什麼脈絡！就叫部屬……"],["呂次長建德：其實事實上是當時是在有關於整個公文的部分，其實主秘的意思……"],["陳委員昭姿：好了、好了，次長，你就留在臺上……"],["呂次長建德：我想這個其實是有一個具體的脈絡，主要是指導同仁公文撰寫的過程，我想態度、用語確實是不對，所以在這個部分我們也對他做行政懲處。"],["陳委員昭姿：沒有、沒有，等一下、等一下！次長，請你留在臺上，你既然要一直上來，你就留在臺上。竟然說劉玉娟是以不當的比喻要求同仁去自我找出問題嚴重性，才不會被他殺。部長，我覺得整個衛福部的高層完全沒有從勞動部的悲劇得到教訓！叫下屬去自殺表示誠意，這個叫比喻失當喔？他講多少次叫人家去輕生耶！叫屬下去輕生耶！"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，我還原一下……"],["陳委員昭姿：這樣叫作比喻喔？比喻不當喔？如果是你女兒呢？"],["呂次長建德：它的脈絡是這樣，就是說，在臺北業務組的時候，當時因為疫情嘛……"],["陳委員昭姿：這根本就是衛福部版的「立意良善版」啦！"],["呂次長建德：其實就是當時署長有一個要求，他現在的意思就是說，整個檢討必須要把……"],["陳委員昭姿：你一直在替他說話嗎？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，他的意思就是說，你要對外公開，要把細節講得清楚，他的意思就是說，你要自己先處理，如果自己沒有先處理的話……"],["陳委員昭姿：這是你們的調查，我只問你，叫人家部屬一直輕生、輕生、輕生，不是言語霸凌嗎？"],["呂次長建德：那就等到外界來的話，這樣可能就不妥，所以它的整個脈絡是這樣……"],["陳委員昭姿：嚇死人了！"],["呂次長建德：所以我會說這個比喻真的不當……"],["陳委員昭姿：你能保證劉玉娟的高壓領導、言語霸凌下……"],["呂次長建德：所以我們也覺得這個部分應該可以……"],["陳委員昭姿：你說比喻不當……部長，像劉玉娟這種高壓領導、言語霸凌，你難道不擔心衛福部的同仁像北分署吳姓同仁一樣，作出無法挽救的選擇嗎？你真的要等到鬧出人命嗎？","我現在唸一個訊息給你聽：「委員好，這封信是在沉重的心情下寫的，感謝委員舉發劉司長的惡舉，當看到委員的質詢時，知道終於有人會關注辛苦、受苦的同仁。就在前幾天一位同仁輾轉告訴我，臺北業務組一位紀姓同仁在109年6月在家自殺身亡，他本身是虔誠的基督徒，一個基督徒為何會自殺？當然如委員之前所述，SOP的結論就是，紀姓員工因憂鬱症而自殺死亡，與主管管教無關。然而該科室有五、六位同仁要求做心理輔導，這件事的處理是由劉司長以及他當時的心腹賴姓科長一起處理，至於如何處理、事實如何，外人無法得知，也無法進一步查證，畢竟當時的劉組長現在已經高升為衛福部的主秘，當時的賴姓科長也高升本署署本部的副組長，請問官官相護下，誰敢說？這位同仁表達，是因為他看不下去，他一直都留著這位紀姓同仁的訃聞」，這都是陳情人寫的。「希望將來有一天能還這位同仁清白。今天的調查結果一定不會有以上的案情說明」果然是沒有！這樣就證明總統及行政院卓院長的指示根本不會落實，能夠還給受冤者清白。","我們看一下這個，我從來沒有把這個東西放在質詢稿上。部長，這就是貴單位輕生的健保署臺北業務組同仁的訃聞，這是4年前的事，當時健保署臺北業務組的組長就是劉玉娟，我想你可能不清楚劉玉娟在健保署臺北業務組的時候，裡面的員工有多痛苦，根本是度日如年！","我再唸一段陳情文給你聽。劉司長於109年3月接掌健保署臺北業務組組長，這是臺北業務組同仁夢魘的開始。一，有位同仁儘管現在已經退休，但他說，到現在他只要聽到有關劉司長的消息手仍會顫抖！他只想忘記這段過去，拒絕談論這一切，但他希望有人能勇敢站出來舉發。二，有兩位科長因受不了劉司長的長官領導風格，於是自動降調為非主管職；另外有一位專委、三位科長被逼退休。有位目前仍在署內的資訊同仁，署本部的資訊長官只能儘量以開會為由讓他回署本部，逃離工作現場。這是我最近所聽聞的，而一切聽聞，署裡當然要依據總統及行政院長的指示一一調查清楚及釐清，但結果仍然令人失望！有人跟我說，這種問卷調查結果會有很大的失真，因為不是所有同仁都知道，而且只給新進人員，所以很多受傷的人並不知道有這份問卷調查，甚至連含悲離職或退休人員都不知道有這份問卷！所以不管在職同仁或離職同仁都認為，問卷調查內容限於工作量的合理與否，故意避開擴權、濫權，所以填了也沒有用，因為他們是同一夥的，是官官相護！對於限制性的問卷調查，敢怒不敢言！","部長，這就是衛福部同仁的心聲，希望你能聽進去！"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，我們絕對依規定秉公處理。至於這次事件，剛剛您說的事件，我們也了解得相當清楚，請呂次來說明一下。"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，這次事件我們都很遺憾。據我們了解，事實上，該名同仁十多年前就已經接受相關治療，至於整件事件的發生跟調查情況、事證，委員都可以查證。老實說，發生這種情況，我們真的不樂見！但我要強調，就整個時序上……"],["陳委員昭姿：次長，你要我找當事人家屬過來嗎？"],["呂次長建德：我們也不樂見有心人士刻意操作這種不幸事件來影射，老實說，對於家長、對於同仁，這是二度傷害……"],["陳委員昭姿：次長，你既然知道這件事……"],["呂次長建德：如果委員想了解，我們可以把相關的就醫紀錄跟報告來向委員報告，謝謝。"],["陳委員昭姿：除了霸凌之外……","好了！次長，你的廢話我就不聽了！部長，最近有件醫學大學的性騷案，你有沒有注意到這則性騷案新聞？根據新聞報導，某位國內知名婦產權威C教授性騷擾六名住院研究醫師，而且已經經過臺大醫院性平會、教評會調查確認。部長，既然已經經過確認，該如何處置這位醫師？部長，你說！"],["邱部長泰源：醫師如果涉及性騷擾、性侵害，或者是……"],["陳委員昭姿：確認了。"],["邱部長泰源：除了應由雇主依性騷擾防治法、性平三法規定辦理，或由司法機關來追究刑事責任……"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，我跟你講，這位C教授不甘心喔……"],["邱部長泰源：倘屬利用業務機會犯罪行為經判刑確定或執行業務違反醫學倫理，得依醫師法第二十五條規定，由醫師公會或主管機關移付懲戒。我想現在……"],["陳委員昭姿：我沒看到懲戒，但我知道C教授不甘心，還找同為國內婦產科大老的總統府資政求救，該名資政還一直打電話給臺大校長陳文章關說，C教授現在也已經轉到該名資政在臺中的醫院繼續任職，這樣的安排OK嗎？你剛剛說從倫理跟專業的角度來看，但我要告訴部長，現在是婦產科醫師性騷確認！因為婦產科醫師工作內容會接觸到女性最隱密的檢查，但你知道該醫院怎麼說嗎？什麼叫護理師一旁嚴格監視，內診請別的醫師做？簡直亂來！部長，這是那幾位受害的女醫師跟我們某個立法委員討論之後，寫了很多建議報告，我念兩點給你聽：性騷名醫離職臺大後，現職醫院辯說，內診改別人接手，他只看診，內診改別的醫師接手？這在實際上恐衍生掛名與實際執行醫師不一致的權責釐清問題，尤其當醫療糾紛出現的時候怎麼辦？很重要的一點是，教保人員條例第十二條明文規定，曾有性侵害、性騷擾、性剝削或虐待兒童之行為，不得在幼兒園服務；營養師法第六條規定，曾犯肅清煙毒條例、麻醉藥品管理條例或毒品危害條例等，並經判決認定者，不能擔任營養師。部長，現在是一名婦產科醫師被好多名醫師檢舉性騷確認！我還要告訴你，這些醫師說：他不只是被摸到臀部，甚至還被摸進內褲，只能向院方聲請保護令，禁止該名醫師靠近。更甚者，這些被性騷的醫師們直到專科醫師考完，才敢站出來檢舉，為什麼？因為醫療場域非常封閉且權力高度不對等，這個大老可能會影響他們專科醫師考試的結果。你想想看，一個女性婦產科專科醫師，在接受四年高強度訓練之後，還要一邊擔心被前輩性騷、被摸大腿、摸臀部，甚至摸進內褲裡，有人因此去看身心科醫師，因為走不出被性騷的陰影，連站出來檢舉都要擔心有一天會不會被秋後算帳！部長，你沒有這份報告嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：醫師懲戒委員會可以依照其情節輕重予以懲戒……"],["陳委員昭姿：狀況很嚴重，都已經確認了！"],["邱部長泰源：包括可以限制他的執業範圍，可以停業……"],["陳委員昭姿：你認為他適合繼續做婦產科醫師嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：可以廢止執業執照……"],["陳委員昭姿：你認為他適合繼續做婦產科醫師嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：最重得廢止醫師證書……"],["陳委員昭姿：全國人民公評，一個婦產科醫師……"],["邱部長泰源：我想這個應該由醫師懲戒委員會來處理……"],["陳委員昭姿：你會處理？為什麼不處理？我質詢了才處理？已經案發這麼久了？"],["邱部長泰源：這個臺大有在處理。臺大處理以後……"],["陳委員昭姿：一個被認定長期性騷的醫師，他可以繼續做婦產科醫師嗎？行政院性平會在哪裡，你們怎麼不出聲？民進黨性平會在哪裡，怎麼不出聲？台灣女人連線在哪裡，你們怎麼都不出聲？只會處理我那個代孕……","部長，這個我會要求你，後續我會緊追著你今天的報告。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員，謝謝部長。","接續我們請林月琴委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":284,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-14","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","劉建國","陳菁徽","林淑芬","王正旭","羅廷瑋","黃秀芳","廖偉翔","王育敏","陳瑩","黃國昌","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","盧縣一","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","楊曜","邱鎮軍","涂權吉"],"page_start":143,"meetingDate":["2024-12-16"],"gazette_id":"1140602","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140602_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請衛生福利部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請衛生福利部部長、考試院、行\n政院人事行政總處針對「所屬機關有關霸凌事件之調查檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1140602_00002"}}}