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00:01:35,635\n報告委員還沒有最後定案那你必須啊在最後定案的時候必須要向社會大眾清楚的說明為什麼是左營方案為什麼是高雄車站方案或者是為什麼不是左營方案為什麼不是高雄車站方案你們必須要明確的說清楚啊其實都有碰到問題第一個左營方案啊在當初定案的時候第一個他首先碰到的就是啊他從左營站\n\n5\n00:01:37,199 --> 00:02:04,244\n出來的時候就立刻碰到台塑石化區他要從台塑的石化區穿越過去啊旁邊都是石化管線都是除氣槽是我出面啊跟鐵道局跟台塑啊相關的協調才把這個路線改制跟高頻二塊相結合啊減少相關的這個公安的危險以及啊對人武地區啊造成的交通以及徵收的困難那後來又出現了問題就是說我們的\n\n6\n00:02:07,065 --> 00:02:09,467\n二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度\n\n7\n00:02:31,021 --> 00:02:52,254\n第一個民眾的拆遷的問題來請說明一下是報告委員民眾拆遷的問題我們當然會把它減到最低但是目前為止因為還沒有進入細部的設計所以也沒有辦法很清楚說哪些一定會影響到哪些一定會影響但是部長我有幾個建議第一個如果是高雄車站方案\n\n8\n00:02:53,510 --> 00:02:54,571\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於\n\n9\n00:03:18,129 --> 00:03:44,045\n是從你們原本是要從中華路地下道現在已經填平了從中華路從我的要求就是說不要超過中華路地下道到民主路橋這邊讓他從2.8公里縮短為2.4公里這樣也可以降低他拆遷的一個戶數最主要還有幾個原則公有地優先\n\n10\n00:03:45,346 --> 00:03:45,786\n二、審查114年度\n\n11\n00:04:11,803 --> 00:04:12,323\n民眾權益最重要,拆遷戶的問題\n\n12\n00:04:38,578 --> 00:04:39,839\n兩條交通動脈之一所以這個必須要去做降低交通衝擊的一個處理\n\n13\n00:05:08,678 --> 00:05:25,520\n指高鐵到高雄車站而已而是整個高雄車站必須一個大車站的觀念來重新的一個佈局我們相關的地下道要通到九十路對面建國路那邊以及站東路站西路\n\n14\n00:05:26,840 --> 00:05:38,941\n而且啊因為如果是地下通道的話我們鐵道局就可以交通部就可以自己做規劃如果要像台北這種地下街的話我們是必須要跟市政府啊來對話來做整合啊\n\n15\n00:05:39,861 --> 00:05:40,822\nbicyC.\n\n16\n00:05:40,822 --> 00:06:01,153\n如果是高雄方案的話,這都是要進行的工作。相關的拆遷、都跟安置以及大高雄車站整體的開發除了地下道或地下街的開發之外,我們那邊有專市跟專路兩塊地。還有高雄車站前面有兩棟大樓已經建好,一棟是營業大樓,商業大樓,一棟是\n\n17\n00:06:03,814 --> 00:06:12,479\n單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會\n\n18\n00:06:33,391 --> 00:06:57,289\n其實答案已經呼之欲出了啦。第二個,你們必須社會大眾必須明確說明為什麼是這個?為什麼不是這個?你們必須要明確的說明。第三個,你們現在跟高雄市政府有對話過嗎?針對我所提的拆遷的問題、禿坑的問題以及大高雄車站相關的問題以及降低交通衝擊,你們有做過對話嗎?\n\n19\n00:06:58,730 --> 00:07:25,169\n報告委員在過去李孟嫣部長的時候有拜訪過陳其邁市長那我上任之後也有拜訪過陳其邁市長針對這件事情來向他做說明那除此之外我們其實鐵道局跟他們的各局處其實很密切在溝通無論是交通方面的規劃或者跟他們副市長在溝通未來整體都市規劃的部分包含整個都更的這個部分還有委員您很關心的地下通道\n\n20\n00:07:25,549 --> 00:07:52,472\n甚至是用天棚直接通到周圍區域周邊區域的計畫其實我們都很密切在跟他們做討論那等到我們定案之後比較細部的設計的部分我們會跟高雄市政府來配合那包含都市更新的部分我所聽到的高雄市政府其實可能會提出一個比較大的這個大都更的計畫在這個整整體的高雄火車站的周邊周邊做一個大都更的計畫那這個部分我們會密切跟他們配合其實這個\n\n21\n00:07:53,493 --> 00:08:16,062\n今天站在這裡其實感觸蠻深的整個鐵路地下化或綠岩道的設置以及相關鐵路立體化設施的拆除我都有參與甚至在2006年我在交通委員會當時我就有提案要求鐵路地下化施工的時候要預留軌道的空間讓高鐵可以直達我們的高雄車站\n\n22\n00:08:17,267 --> 00:08:44,160\n那可惜當時的政府沒有同意沒有預留這個軌道的空間所以今天又重新面臨這個相關的問題那其實在高雄車站方案在之前我跟王國才部長李孟彥部長還有陳思凱部長都有多次的討論我們對社會大眾對高雄市民屏東縣民都必須要明確的報告為什麼\n\n23\n00:08:45,060 --> 00:09:08,896\n是這個方案不管是之前我們提過的左雲方案、燕巢方案、高雄車站方案、小港機場方案為什麼後來是左雲方案然後現在後來又變成了左雲方案跟高雄車站方案要選擇一個這個都要有明確的數據未來的發展因為長久的公共利益跟對民眾的利益的\n\n24\n00:09:09,656 --> 00:09:10,896\n二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4112\t31511\t謝謝召委,請一下陳世凱部長陳部長楊政軍局長好,楊局長部長好,局長好高鐵研製屏東本來有四個方案是有左營方案、燕草方案、高雄車站方案以及小港機場方案最後是定案與\n33081\t53619\t左營方案就是相關的這個延伸到六塊錯那左營方案後來遇到問題那我現在要請教一下部長左營方案或者是高雄車站方案到底什麼時候會定案報告委員我們希望在年底可以定案\n54082\t67835\t在年底已經快到了之前李孟彥部長的時候他也是說要年底那我就照他的這個年底的這個規劃我們照這個計畫做好那到底是左營方案還是高雄車站方案現在有定案嗎\n69208\t95635\t報告委員還沒有最後定案那你必須啊在最後定案的時候必須要向社會大眾清楚的說明為什麼是左營方案為什麼是高雄車站方案或者是為什麼不是左營方案為什麼不是高雄車站方案你們必須要明確的說清楚啊其實都有碰到問題第一個左營方案啊在當初定案的時候第一個他首先碰到的就是啊他從左營站\n97199\t124244\t出來的時候就立刻碰到台塑石化區他要從台塑的石化區穿越過去啊旁邊都是石化管線都是除氣槽是我出面啊跟鐵道局跟台塑啊相關的協調才把這個路線改制跟高頻二塊相結合啊減少相關的這個公安的危險以及啊對人武地區啊造成的交通以及徵收的困難那後來又出現了問題就是說我們的\n127065\t129467\t二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度\n151021\t172254\t第一個民眾的拆遷的問題來請說明一下是報告委員民眾拆遷的問題我們當然會把它減到最低但是目前為止因為還沒有進入細部的設計所以也沒有辦法很清楚說哪些一定會影響到哪些一定會影響但是部長我有幾個建議第一個如果是高雄車站方案\n173510\t174571\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於\n198129\t224045\t是從你們原本是要從中華路地下道現在已經填平了從中華路從我的要求就是說不要超過中華路地下道到民主路橋這邊讓他從2.8公里縮短為2.4公里這樣也可以降低他拆遷的一個戶數最主要還有幾個原則公有地優先\n225346\t225786\t二、審查114年度\n251803\t252323\t民眾權益最重要,拆遷戶的問題\n278578\t279839\t兩條交通動脈之一所以這個必須要去做降低交通衝擊的一個處理\n308678\t325520\t指高鐵到高雄車站而已而是整個高雄車站必須一個大車站的觀念來重新的一個佈局我們相關的地下道要通到九十路對面建國路那邊以及站東路站西路\n326840\t338941\t而且啊因為如果是地下通道的話我們鐵道局就可以交通部就可以自己做規劃如果要像台北這種地下街的話我們是必須要跟市政府啊來對話來做整合啊\n339861\t340822\tbicyC.\n340822\t361153\t如果是高雄方案的話,這都是要進行的工作。相關的拆遷、都跟安置以及大高雄車站整體的開發除了地下道或地下街的開發之外,我們那邊有專市跟專路兩塊地。還有高雄車站前面有兩棟大樓已經建好,一棟是營業大樓,商業大樓,一棟是\n363814\t372479\t單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會\n393391\t417289\t其實答案已經呼之欲出了啦。第二個,你們必須社會大眾必須明確說明為什麼是這個?為什麼不是這個?你們必須要明確的說明。第三個,你們現在跟高雄市政府有對話過嗎?針對我所提的拆遷的問題、禿坑的問題以及大高雄車站相關的問題以及降低交通衝擊,你們有做過對話嗎?\n418730\t445169\t報告委員在過去李孟嫣部長的時候有拜訪過陳其邁市長那我上任之後也有拜訪過陳其邁市長針對這件事情來向他做說明那除此之外我們其實鐵道局跟他們的各局處其實很密切在溝通無論是交通方面的規劃或者跟他們副市長在溝通未來整體都市規劃的部分包含整個都更的這個部分還有委員您很關心的地下通道\n445549\t472472\t甚至是用天棚直接通到周圍區域周邊區域的計畫其實我們都很密切在跟他們做討論那等到我們定案之後比較細部的設計的部分我們會跟高雄市政府來配合那包含都市更新的部分我所聽到的高雄市政府其實可能會提出一個比較大的這個大都更的計畫在這個整整體的高雄火車站的周邊周邊做一個大都更的計畫那這個部分我們會密切跟他們配合其實這個\n473493\t496062\t今天站在這裡其實感觸蠻深的整個鐵路地下化或綠岩道的設置以及相關鐵路立體化設施的拆除我都有參與甚至在2006年我在交通委員會當時我就有提案要求鐵路地下化施工的時候要預留軌道的空間讓高鐵可以直達我們的高雄車站\n497267\t524160\t那可惜當時的政府沒有同意沒有預留這個軌道的空間所以今天又重新面臨這個相關的問題那其實在高雄車站方案在之前我跟王國才部長李孟彥部長還有陳思凱部長都有多次的討論我們對社會大眾對高雄市民屏東縣民都必須要明確的報告為什麼\n525060\t548896\t是這個方案不管是之前我們提過的左雲方案、燕巢方案、高雄車站方案、小港機場方案為什麼後來是左雲方案然後現在後來又變成了左雲方案跟高雄車站方案要選擇一個這個都要有明確的數據未來的發展因為長久的公共利益跟對民眾的利益的\n549656\t550896\t二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查\n","txt":"謝謝召委,請一下陳世凱部長陳部長楊政軍局長好,楊局長部長好,局長好高鐵研製屏東本來有四個方案是有左營方案、燕草方案、高雄車站方案以及小港機場方案最後是定案與\n左營方案就是相關的這個延伸到六塊錯那左營方案後來遇到問題那我現在要請教一下部長左營方案或者是高雄車站方案到底什麼時候會定案報告委員我們希望在年底可以定案\n在年底已經快到了之前李孟彥部長的時候他也是說要年底那我就照他的這個年底的這個規劃我們照這個計畫做好那到底是左營方案還是高雄車站方案現在有定案嗎\n報告委員還沒有最後定案那你必須啊在最後定案的時候必須要向社會大眾清楚的說明為什麼是左營方案為什麼是高雄車站方案或者是為什麼不是左營方案為什麼不是高雄車站方案你們必須要明確的說清楚啊其實都有碰到問題第一個左營方案啊在當初定案的時候第一個他首先碰到的就是啊他從左營站\n出來的時候就立刻碰到台塑石化區他要從台塑的石化區穿越過去啊旁邊都是石化管線都是除氣槽是我出面啊跟鐵道局跟台塑啊相關的協調才把這個路線改制跟高頻二塊相結合啊減少相關的這個公安的危險以及啊對人武地區啊造成的交通以及徵收的困難那後來又出現了問題就是說我們的\n二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度\n第一個民眾的拆遷的問題來請說明一下是報告委員民眾拆遷的問題我們當然會把它減到最低但是目前為止因為還沒有進入細部的設計所以也沒有辦法很清楚說哪些一定會影響到哪些一定會影響但是部長我有幾個建議第一個如果是高雄車站方案\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於\n是從你們原本是要從中華路地下道現在已經填平了從中華路從我的要求就是說不要超過中華路地下道到民主路橋這邊讓他從2.8公里縮短為2.4公里這樣也可以降低他拆遷的一個戶數最主要還有幾個原則公有地優先\n二、審查114年度\n民眾權益最重要,拆遷戶的問題\n兩條交通動脈之一所以這個必須要去做降低交通衝擊的一個處理\n指高鐵到高雄車站而已而是整個高雄車站必須一個大車站的觀念來重新的一個佈局我們相關的地下道要通到九十路對面建國路那邊以及站東路站西路\n而且啊因為如果是地下通道的話我們鐵道局就可以交通部就可以自己做規劃如果要像台北這種地下街的話我們是必須要跟市政府啊來對話來做整合啊\nbicyC.\n如果是高雄方案的話,這都是要進行的工作。相關的拆遷、都跟安置以及大高雄車站整體的開發除了地下道或地下街的開發之外,我們那邊有專市跟專路兩塊地。還有高雄車站前面有兩棟大樓已經建好,一棟是營業大樓,商業大樓,一棟是\n單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會\n其實答案已經呼之欲出了啦。第二個,你們必須社會大眾必須明確說明為什麼是這個?為什麼不是這個?你們必須要明確的說明。第三個,你們現在跟高雄市政府有對話過嗎?針對我所提的拆遷的問題、禿坑的問題以及大高雄車站相關的問題以及降低交通衝擊,你們有做過對話嗎?\n報告委員在過去李孟嫣部長的時候有拜訪過陳其邁市長那我上任之後也有拜訪過陳其邁市長針對這件事情來向他做說明那除此之外我們其實鐵道局跟他們的各局處其實很密切在溝通無論是交通方面的規劃或者跟他們副市長在溝通未來整體都市規劃的部分包含整個都更的這個部分還有委員您很關心的地下通道\n甚至是用天棚直接通到周圍區域周邊區域的計畫其實我們都很密切在跟他們做討論那等到我們定案之後比較細部的設計的部分我們會跟高雄市政府來配合那包含都市更新的部分我所聽到的高雄市政府其實可能會提出一個比較大的這個大都更的計畫在這個整整體的高雄火車站的周邊周邊做一個大都更的計畫那這個部分我們會密切跟他們配合其實這個\n今天站在這裡其實感觸蠻深的整個鐵路地下化或綠岩道的設置以及相關鐵路立體化設施的拆除我都有參與甚至在2006年我在交通委員會當時我就有提案要求鐵路地下化施工的時候要預留軌道的空間讓高鐵可以直達我們的高雄車站\n那可惜當時的政府沒有同意沒有預留這個軌道的空間所以今天又重新面臨這個相關的問題那其實在高雄車站方案在之前我跟王國才部長李孟彥部長還有陳思凱部長都有多次的討論我們對社會大眾對高雄市民屏東縣民都必須要明確的報告為什麼\n是這個方案不管是之前我們提過的左雲方案、燕巢方案、高雄車站方案、小港機場方案為什麼後來是左雲方案然後現在後來又變成了左雲方案跟高雄車站方案要選擇一個這個都要有明確的數據未來的發展因為長久的公共利益跟對民眾的利益的\n二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.112 --> 00:31.511\n謝謝召委,請一下陳世凱部長陳部長楊政軍局長好,楊局長部長好,局長好高鐵研製屏東本來有四個方案是有左營方案、燕草方案、高雄車站方案以及小港機場方案最後是定案與\n\n00:33.081 --> 00:53.619\n左營方案就是相關的這個延伸到六塊錯那左營方案後來遇到問題那我現在要請教一下部長左營方案或者是高雄車站方案到底什麼時候會定案報告委員我們希望在年底可以定案\n\n00:54.082 --> 01:07.835\n在年底已經快到了之前李孟彥部長的時候他也是說要年底那我就照他的這個年底的這個規劃我們照這個計畫做好那到底是左營方案還是高雄車站方案現在有定案嗎\n\n01:09.208 --> 01:35.635\n報告委員還沒有最後定案那你必須啊在最後定案的時候必須要向社會大眾清楚的說明為什麼是左營方案為什麼是高雄車站方案或者是為什麼不是左營方案為什麼不是高雄車站方案你們必須要明確的說清楚啊其實都有碰到問題第一個左營方案啊在當初定案的時候第一個他首先碰到的就是啊他從左營站\n\n01:37.199 --> 02:04.244\n出來的時候就立刻碰到台塑石化區他要從台塑的石化區穿越過去啊旁邊都是石化管線都是除氣槽是我出面啊跟鐵道局跟台塑啊相關的協調才把這個路線改制跟高頻二塊相結合啊減少相關的這個公安的危險以及啊對人武地區啊造成的交通以及徵收的困難那後來又出現了問題就是說我們的\n\n02:07.065 --> 02:09.467\n二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度\n\n02:31.021 --> 02:52.254\n第一個民眾的拆遷的問題來請說明一下是報告委員民眾拆遷的問題我們當然會把它減到最低但是目前為止因為還沒有進入細部的設計所以也沒有辦法很清楚說哪些一定會影響到哪些一定會影響但是部長我有幾個建議第一個如果是高雄車站方案\n\n02:53.510 --> 02:54.571\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於\n\n03:18.129 --> 03:44.045\n是從你們原本是要從中華路地下道現在已經填平了從中華路從我的要求就是說不要超過中華路地下道到民主路橋這邊讓他從2.8公里縮短為2.4公里這樣也可以降低他拆遷的一個戶數最主要還有幾個原則公有地優先\n\n03:45.346 --> 03:45.786\n二、審查114年度\n\n04:11.803 --> 04:12.323\n民眾權益最重要,拆遷戶的問題\n\n04:38.578 --> 04:39.839\n兩條交通動脈之一所以這個必須要去做降低交通衝擊的一個處理\n\n05:08.678 --> 05:25.520\n指高鐵到高雄車站而已而是整個高雄車站必須一個大車站的觀念來重新的一個佈局我們相關的地下道要通到九十路對面建國路那邊以及站東路站西路\n\n05:26.840 --> 05:38.941\n而且啊因為如果是地下通道的話我們鐵道局就可以交通部就可以自己做規劃如果要像台北這種地下街的話我們是必須要跟市政府啊來對話來做整合啊\n\n05:39.861 --> 05:40.822\nbicyC.\n\n05:40.822 --> 06:01.153\n如果是高雄方案的話,這都是要進行的工作。相關的拆遷、都跟安置以及大高雄車站整體的開發除了地下道或地下街的開發之外,我們那邊有專市跟專路兩塊地。還有高雄車站前面有兩棟大樓已經建好,一棟是營業大樓,商業大樓,一棟是\n\n06:03.814 --> 06:12.479\n單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會\n\n06:33.391 --> 06:57.289\n其實答案已經呼之欲出了啦。第二個,你們必須社會大眾必須明確說明為什麼是這個?為什麼不是這個?你們必須要明確的說明。第三個,你們現在跟高雄市政府有對話過嗎?針對我所提的拆遷的問題、禿坑的問題以及大高雄車站相關的問題以及降低交通衝擊,你們有做過對話嗎?\n\n06:58.730 --> 07:25.169\n報告委員在過去李孟嫣部長的時候有拜訪過陳其邁市長那我上任之後也有拜訪過陳其邁市長針對這件事情來向他做說明那除此之外我們其實鐵道局跟他們的各局處其實很密切在溝通無論是交通方面的規劃或者跟他們副市長在溝通未來整體都市規劃的部分包含整個都更的這個部分還有委員您很關心的地下通道\n\n07:25.549 --> 07:52.472\n甚至是用天棚直接通到周圍區域周邊區域的計畫其實我們都很密切在跟他們做討論那等到我們定案之後比較細部的設計的部分我們會跟高雄市政府來配合那包含都市更新的部分我所聽到的高雄市政府其實可能會提出一個比較大的這個大都更的計畫在這個整整體的高雄火車站的周邊周邊做一個大都更的計畫那這個部分我們會密切跟他們配合其實這個\n\n07:53.493 --> 08:16.062\n今天站在這裡其實感觸蠻深的整個鐵路地下化或綠岩道的設置以及相關鐵路立體化設施的拆除我都有參與甚至在2006年我在交通委員會當時我就有提案要求鐵路地下化施工的時候要預留軌道的空間讓高鐵可以直達我們的高雄車站\n\n08:17.267 --> 08:44.160\n那可惜當時的政府沒有同意沒有預留這個軌道的空間所以今天又重新面臨這個相關的問題那其實在高雄車站方案在之前我跟王國才部長李孟彥部長還有陳思凱部長都有多次的討論我們對社會大眾對高雄市民屏東縣民都必須要明確的報告為什麼\n\n08:45.060 --> 09:08.896\n是這個方案不管是之前我們提過的左雲方案、燕巢方案、高雄車站方案、小港機場方案為什麼後來是左雲方案然後現在後來又變成了左雲方案跟高雄車站方案要選擇一個這個都要有明確的數據未來的發展因為長久的公共利益跟對民眾的利益的\n\n09:09.656 --> 09:10.896\n二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.112,"end":31.511,"text":"謝謝召委,請一下陳世凱部長陳部長楊政軍局長好,楊局長部長好,局長好高鐵研製屏東本來有四個方案是有左營方案、燕草方案、高雄車站方案以及小港機場方案最後是定案與"},{"start":33.081,"end":53.619,"text":"左營方案就是相關的這個延伸到六塊錯那左營方案後來遇到問題那我現在要請教一下部長左營方案或者是高雄車站方案到底什麼時候會定案報告委員我們希望在年底可以定案"},{"start":54.082,"end":67.835,"text":"在年底已經快到了之前李孟彥部長的時候他也是說要年底那我就照他的這個年底的這個規劃我們照這個計畫做好那到底是左營方案還是高雄車站方案現在有定案嗎"},{"start":69.208,"end":95.635,"text":"報告委員還沒有最後定案那你必須啊在最後定案的時候必須要向社會大眾清楚的說明為什麼是左營方案為什麼是高雄車站方案或者是為什麼不是左營方案為什麼不是高雄車站方案你們必須要明確的說清楚啊其實都有碰到問題第一個左營方案啊在當初定案的時候第一個他首先碰到的就是啊他從左營站"},{"start":97.199,"end":124.244,"text":"出來的時候就立刻碰到台塑石化區他要從台塑的石化區穿越過去啊旁邊都是石化管線都是除氣槽是我出面啊跟鐵道局跟台塑啊相關的協調才把這個路線改制跟高頻二塊相結合啊減少相關的這個公安的危險以及啊對人武地區啊造成的交通以及徵收的困難那後來又出現了問題就是說我們的"},{"start":127.065,"end":129.467,"text":"二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查114年度"},{"start":151.021,"end":172.254,"text":"第一個民眾的拆遷的問題來請說明一下是報告委員民眾拆遷的問題我們當然會把它減到最低但是目前為止因為還沒有進入細部的設計所以也沒有辦法很清楚說哪些一定會影響到哪些一定會影響但是部長我有幾個建議第一個如果是高雄車站方案"},{"start":173.51,"end":174.571,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於"},{"start":198.129,"end":224.045,"text":"是從你們原本是要從中華路地下道現在已經填平了從中華路從我的要求就是說不要超過中華路地下道到民主路橋這邊讓他從2.8公里縮短為2.4公里這樣也可以降低他拆遷的一個戶數最主要還有幾個原則公有地優先"},{"start":225.346,"end":225.786,"text":"二、審查114年度"},{"start":251.803,"end":252.323,"text":"民眾權益最重要,拆遷戶的問題"},{"start":278.578,"end":279.839,"text":"兩條交通動脈之一所以這個必須要去做降低交通衝擊的一個處理"},{"start":308.678,"end":325.52,"text":"指高鐵到高雄車站而已而是整個高雄車站必須一個大車站的觀念來重新的一個佈局我們相關的地下道要通到九十路對面建國路那邊以及站東路站西路"},{"start":326.84,"end":338.941,"text":"而且啊因為如果是地下通道的話我們鐵道局就可以交通部就可以自己做規劃如果要像台北這種地下街的話我們是必須要跟市政府啊來對話來做整合啊"},{"start":339.861,"end":340.822,"text":" bicyC."},{"start":340.822,"end":361.153,"text":"如果是高雄方案的話,這都是要進行的工作。相關的拆遷、都跟安置以及大高雄車站整體的開發除了地下道或地下街的開發之外,我們那邊有專市跟專路兩塊地。還有高雄車站前面有兩棟大樓已經建好,一棟是營業大樓,商業大樓,一棟是"},{"start":363.814,"end":372.479,"text":"單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會"},{"start":393.391,"end":417.289,"text":"其實答案已經呼之欲出了啦。第二個,你們必須社會大眾必須明確說明為什麼是這個?為什麼不是這個?你們必須要明確的說明。第三個,你們現在跟高雄市政府有對話過嗎?針對我所提的拆遷的問題、禿坑的問題以及大高雄車站相關的問題以及降低交通衝擊,你們有做過對話嗎?"},{"start":418.73,"end":445.169,"text":"報告委員在過去李孟嫣部長的時候有拜訪過陳其邁市長那我上任之後也有拜訪過陳其邁市長針對這件事情來向他做說明那除此之外我們其實鐵道局跟他們的各局處其實很密切在溝通無論是交通方面的規劃或者跟他們副市長在溝通未來整體都市規劃的部分包含整個都更的這個部分還有委員您很關心的地下通道"},{"start":445.549,"end":472.472,"text":"甚至是用天棚直接通到周圍區域周邊區域的計畫其實我們都很密切在跟他們做討論那等到我們定案之後比較細部的設計的部分我們會跟高雄市政府來配合那包含都市更新的部分我所聽到的高雄市政府其實可能會提出一個比較大的這個大都更的計畫在這個整整體的高雄火車站的周邊周邊做一個大都更的計畫那這個部分我們會密切跟他們配合其實這個"},{"start":473.493,"end":496.062,"text":"今天站在這裡其實感觸蠻深的整個鐵路地下化或綠岩道的設置以及相關鐵路立體化設施的拆除我都有參與甚至在2006年我在交通委員會當時我就有提案要求鐵路地下化施工的時候要預留軌道的空間讓高鐵可以直達我們的高雄車站"},{"start":497.267,"end":524.16,"text":"那可惜當時的政府沒有同意沒有預留這個軌道的空間所以今天又重新面臨這個相關的問題那其實在高雄車站方案在之前我跟王國才部長李孟彥部長還有陳思凱部長都有多次的討論我們對社會大眾對高雄市民屏東縣民都必須要明確的報告為什麼"},{"start":525.06,"end":548.896,"text":"是這個方案不管是之前我們提過的左雲方案、燕巢方案、高雄車站方案、小港機場方案為什麼後來是左雲方案然後現在後來又變成了左雲方案跟高雄車站方案要選擇一個這個都要有明確的數據未來的發展因為長久的公共利益跟對民眾的利益的"},{"start":549.656,"end":550.896,"text":"二、審查114年度二、審查114年度二、審查"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":264,"blocks":[["李委員昆澤：（9時47分）謝謝召委，請一下陳世凱部長、楊正君局長。"],["主席：陳部長、楊局長。"],["李委員昆澤：部長好、局長好。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["李委員昆澤：高鐵延至屏東本來有4個方案，有左營方案、燕巢方案、高雄車站方案以及小港機場方案，最後是定案於左營方案，就是延伸到六塊厝，左營方案後來遇到問題，我現在要請教一下部長，左營方案或者是高雄車站方案，到底什麼時候會定案？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我們希望在年底可以定案。"],["李委員昆澤：年底已經快到了耶！"],["陳部長世凱：之前李孟諺部長的時候，他也是說要年底，那就照他年底的規劃，我們照這個計畫做。"],["李委員昆澤：好，那到底是左營方案還是高雄車站方案，現在有定案嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，還沒有最後定案……"],["李委員昆澤：那你在最後定案的時候，必須要向社會大眾清楚的說明，為什麼是左營方案、為什麼是高雄車站方案，或者是為什麼不是左營方案、為什麼不是高雄車站方案，你們必須要明確的說清楚。其實都有碰到問題，第一個，左營方案在當初定案的時候，首先碰到的就是它從左營站出來的時候就立刻碰到台塑石化區，它要從台塑石化區穿越過去，旁邊都是石化管線、都是儲氣槽，是我出面跟鐵道局、跟台塑相關的協調，才把這個路線改至跟高屏二快相結合，減少相關的工安危險，以及對仁武地區造成的交通以及徵收的困難。後來又出現了問題，我們轉換的長度也不夠，轉換長度至少要417公尺，當初的規劃只有380公尺，還有相關的道岔系統、轉換系統以及安全系統，這個都是有安全的疑慮，這是左營方案的問題。高雄車站也有很多問題，第一個，民眾拆遷的問題，來，請說明一下。"],["陳部長世凱：是，報告委員，民眾拆遷的問題我們當然會把它減到最低，但是目前為止，因為還沒有進入細部的設計，所以也沒有辦法很清楚說哪些一定會影響，但是……"],["李委員昆澤：好，哪些一定會影響，但是部長，我有幾個建議，第一個，如果是高雄車站方案，你們的拆遷如果要減少的話，必須是由高雄車站預定的四股道改成三股道，縮減它的範圍，三股道就夠了，因為它不是最終站，它是一個經過站而已，最重要的還是要到屏東，那四股道變成三股道的時候，徵收的範圍就會減少。第二，你們原本是要從中華路地下道，現在已經填平了，我的要求就是不要超過中華路地下道到民族陸橋這邊，讓它從2.8公里縮短為2.4公里，這樣也可以降低它拆遷的戶數。最主要有幾個原則，公有地優先……"],["陳部長世凱：好，當然。"],["李委員昆澤：你不要讓民眾受到拆遷之苦。第二，相關安置也是個問題，你要跟高雄市政府討論有沒有要都更、有沒有安置宅、有沒有社會宅以及相關的這些安置，還有土地是要議價購買為優先，這個原則能不能……來，局長，你講一下。"],["楊局長正君：好，謝謝委員指教，特別是剛剛委員指導的高雄車站股道數的減少，我想我們會朝這個方向來做檢討，這樣可以大幅減少相關的一些用地上面的取得。第二個，我們也會盡全力把我們的明挖路段限縮到中華三路跟民族陸橋的範圍以內，也就是說不影響這兩個……"],["李委員昆澤：民眾的權益最重要啦！拆遷戶的問題……"],["楊局長正君：是的，拆遷的部分我們會來協調高雄市政府共同來處理好安置跟都更這樣的……"],["李委員昆澤：第二個，我們把它限縮在中華路以及民族陸橋、民族路之間，就是要降低交通的衝擊，因為中華路跟民族路是高雄最重要的兩條交通動脈之一啊！"],["陳部長世凱：對，沒錯。"],["李委員昆澤：所以這個必須要去做降低交通衝擊的處理，如果我們要到高雄車站，不是說高鐵到高雄車站而已，而是整個高雄車站必須以一個大車站的觀念來重新的布局，相關的地下道要通到九如路對面、建國路那邊，以及站東路、站西路，而且因為如果是地下通道的話，我們交通部鐵道局就可以自己做規劃，如果要像臺北這種地下街的話，是必須要跟市政府來對話、來做整合，如果是高雄方案的話，這都是接下來要進行的工作。相關的拆遷、都更、安置，以及大高雄車站整體的開發，除了地下道或地下街的開發之外，我們那邊有專四跟專五兩塊地，還有高雄車站前面有兩棟大樓已經建好，一棟是營業大樓、商業大樓，一棟是觀光旅館，其實後站也有兩棟的空地，這兩棟也必須要做整體的開發，然後兩邊有專四、專五，就是警察局跟行控中心那邊，還有在高雄火車站到民族路這邊相關的第四種商業區，這都必須跟高雄市政府來整體對話做一個整體的開發，你們有沒有做預先的規劃？"],["陳部長世凱：對……"],["李委員昆澤：所以說第一個，左營方案或是高雄方案，現在還沒有定案，其實答案已經呼之欲出了啦！第二個，你們必須跟社會大眾明確說明，為什麼是這個、為什麼不是這個，你們必須要明確的說明。第三個，你們現在跟高雄市政府有對話過嗎？針對我所提的拆遷的問題、都更的問題、大高雄車站相關的問題，以及降低交通衝擊，你們有做過對話嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，在過去李孟諺部長的時候有拜訪過陳其邁市長，我上任之後也有拜訪過陳其邁市長，針對這件事情來向他做說明。除此之外，我們鐵道局跟他們的各局處其實很密切在溝通，無論是交通方面的規劃，或者跟他們副市長在溝通未來整體都市規劃的部分，包含整個都更的部分，還有委員您很關心的地下通道，甚至是用天棚直接通到周圍區域、周邊區域的計畫，其實我們都很密切在跟他們做討論。等到我們定案之後，比較細部的設計部分，我們會跟高雄市政府來配合，包含都市更新的部分，我所聽到的高雄市政府可能會提出一個比較大的大都更計畫，在整體高雄火車站的周邊做一個大都更的計畫，我們會密切跟他們配合。"],["李委員昆澤：其實今天站在這裡感觸蠻深的，整個鐵路地下化或綠園道的設置，以及相關鐵路立體化設施的拆除，我都有參與。甚至2006年我在交通委員會，當時我就有提案要求鐵路地下化施工的時候要預留軌道的空間，讓高鐵可以直達我們高雄車站，可惜當時的政府沒有同意，沒有預留軌道的空間，所以今天又重新面臨相關的問題。其實高雄車站方案，之前我跟王國材部長、李孟諺部長還有陳世凱部長都有多次的討論，我們對於社會大眾、對高雄市民、屏東縣民都必須要明確的報告為什麼是這個方案，不管是之前我們提過的左營方案、燕巢方案、高雄車站方案、小港機場方案，為什麼後來是左營方案？後來又變成了左營方案跟高雄車站方案要選擇一個，這個都要有明確的數據，就未來的發展，因為長久的公共利益跟對民眾利益的衝突，以及對地方發展不管是短期面臨的衝擊、黑暗期以及長期的公共利益，你們必須都要明確的說明啊！"],["陳部長世凱：是，我們會做詳細的說明。"],["李委員昆澤：部長，這是你重要的工作；楊局長，你也必須要明確的來掌握，而且要跟高雄市政府、屏東縣政府和當地的居民都要明確的說明，我們來看你們怎麼做。"],["陳部長世凱：沒問題，我們來努力，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝李委員。","接下來有請林國成委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":444,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-15","speakers":["魯明哲","李昆澤","林國成","林俊憲","陳素月","蔡其昌","游顥","何欣純","徐富癸","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","楊瓊瓔","牛煦庭","許智傑","鍾佳濱","黃健豪"],"page_start":379,"meetingDate":["2024-12-16"],"gazette_id":"1140501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140501_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查114\n年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算；三、審查114年度中央政府總預\n算案關於交通部運輸研究所單位預算；四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部鐵道局及\n所屬單位預算；五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交\n通作業基金─鐵道發展基金分預算【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1140501_00014"}}}