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00:00:56,705\n我對於你們這些調查單位跟這些研究單位啊過去與我個人對於你們的認知基本上你們各種編列預算只要是按部就班去做基本上我們是支持可是有一些問題我們必須要去提醒我們林組委也就是我們輕航機的事故\n\n3\n00:00:58,897 --> 00:01:15,612\n到底誰要來調查誰要來管這是很重要的林主委所以我在這裡就是清航機的事那最近一件就是12月9號在屏東的\n\n4\n00:01:17,054 --> 00:01:26,550\n事故這個第一我要了解你們現在調查如何這第一第二為什麼12月9號\n\n5\n00:01:30,568 --> 00:01:51,415\n這個機種跟這一架飛機已經聯繫兩次的事故。不過每一次都是鬧出人命之後才開始要來重視。所以主委你存在的功能你們貴委員會存在的功能本來就是有瑕疵就調查\n\n6\n00:01:52,495 --> 00:02:11,594\n有問題就要就正本來就是這樣所以我要請教我們主委這個12月9號這一架輕航機在屏東所發生這個你們進行調查的如何可以不可以跟本席說明一下嗎\n\n7\n00:02:12,762 --> 00:02:40,280\n報告委員這個案子已經確實是立案調查那麼他是連續陳主委員剛剛所提的他這個超新級載具的私事的這種系統性我們已經在做統計分析那麼我們最近也跟民航局有聯繫說講這個有一些議題譬如說有大部分三個主要議題是說他沒有在核定的空域裡面來進行會案活動這是違法的\n\n8\n00:02:41,201 --> 00:02:59,007\n那麼他差遣採集的維修保養紀錄也坦白講不是那麼完整還有最主要他沒有遵照會行所測的相關規範來操作這個我們跟民進黨局最近也在跟他開會他們也知道他們會加派人力來督導好啦那個那個會員組來\n\n9\n00:03:02,435 --> 00:03:19,333\n那個主委所講這些是一個大方向你們現在所調查的這些因為我在乎的就是輕航機他管理跟他的安全因為你們調查之後才有辦法在管理部分如何約束\n\n10\n00:03:40,529 --> 00:04:05,431\n輕航機它已經兩次發生事故了那問題在哪邊問題在哪邊這個不是只有這個飛行員的問題喔那應該是不是他的機種或者他改裝之後是確實是有問題來組長你可以不可以說明一下再深入技巧性你們調查的結果跟本席說明一下好不好\n\n11\n00:04:06,570 --> 00:04:34,923\n是,跟李委員報告一下目前來講在輕航機這個調查方向我們在主委的指導之下我們也非常重視這一些事情那根據過去的一些調查的報告已經結案的一些事件裡面大體上就是對於輕航機上面我們的維修有一些維修它並不完全按照原廠給的一些規範這是我們覺得是幾乎的一個重點\n\n12\n00:04:35,723 --> 00:04:50,941\n同時在飛行操作的部分在訓練方面我們也發掘了一些重點都在我們的調查報告上面可以看得到關於林委員指教的就是未來的管理方面因為現在的這個輕航機\n\n13\n00:04:52,402 --> 00:05:07,393\n現在的頻率會越來越多包含最近還有一些無人機等等這個頻率會越來越多所以我們目前來講已經跟民航局的標準組我們一起再去看這一方面的事情\n\n14\n00:05:07,913 --> 00:05:32,779\n那個我建議啦從七月份八月份我現在跑步你可以看得出來七月份八月份十一月份十二月份這些輕航機的事故他迫降機率非常嚴重也就是每一個月幾乎每一個月都有這些輕航機的意外的不斷甚至有人受傷這個部分我要拜託主委跟拜託我們這個委員會裡面各組啊\n\n15\n00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,381\n兩、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會\n\n16\n00:05:56,249 --> 00:06:19,703\n要預防也就是如何去預防這很重要所以我特別要提醒主委不要因為這些你們平常的這些調查影響你們的預算這是我特別要提醒所以希望主委跟我們各組這裡要盡到一些調查跟監督跟建議之責任好不好\n\n17\n00:06:20,723 --> 00:06:22,104\n五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算\n\n18\n00:06:42,074 --> 00:06:59,093\n主動非常重要不要人家10天以後跟你們通報以後你們才來做這個功能幾乎是不可以好不好好那個主委請回謝謝好那個請我們陳部長還有我們那個林所長林記國所長\n\n19\n00:07:08,647 --> 00:07:28,960\n我想部長因為我簡單說一下啦因為你也已經我們同事也已經講這個台鐵漲價的問題嘛那你也講過年以前不可能漲價啦那我還是要特別提醒你我有看到我們這次\n\n20\n00:07:29,881 --> 00:07:44,836\n改制為國營公司化之後看起來客人容量跟他的收入是增加的所以這個部分我還是要建議就是我們台鐵漲價的部分真的\n\n21\n00:07:45,416 --> 00:07:58,801\n也不要事事都一定要事先預告老百姓讓他們提心吊膽沒有必要但是我這裡要建議也就是我們營運虧損補貼辦法說我們政府要補貼這個部分我要拜託部長盡快給他們\n\n22\n00:08:05,664 --> 00:08:29,946\n為什麼我要問這個那主要是我們虧損補貼的部分最主要是牽涉到員工要計算如何要不要發人中獎金所以這個這個跟員工權利有關所以這個我特別我特別要拜託部長要去關心這個因為員工啊\n\n23\n00:08:30,606 --> 00:08:36,511\nbicy,這個部分我們有跟那個主計總署已經有達成共識了,我們有一個確定的方案,折衷方案,所以這個我們會盡快。\n\n24\n00:08:52,563 --> 00:09:16,523\n因為年終快到了他們現在董事會要計算是牽涉到我虧損的是彌補是不是可以可以可以卡不過去所以這個就會影響他們的年終獎金花跟不花這個問題這個沒問題這個我要拜託部長一下好另外這是我們那個那個應安手啊我要拜託你們你們在研究這些當然對交通有幫助\n\n25\n00:09:17,406 --> 00:09:23,298\n可是有一點你們那個老人家習慣也就是你們編列450萬去開發高齡道安學習軟體\n\n26\n00:09:30,558 --> 00:09:57,716\n我必須要提醒林首長你們不要動不動老人家只要超過70歲他怎麼會去運用這些少之又少依照年輕人20歲以下那當然用的是百分之百那未來他們會用但是經過70歲他使用力只有百分之0.8所以你花了這些錢去做這些\n\n27\n00:09:58,636 --> 00:09:59,616\n四合嗎?\n\n28\n00:09:59,616 --> 00:10:23,325\n這第一個我要提醒喔你們編列預算是有編列這一筆還有另外我還要跟您所長你們不要動不動就是陸老師啊我上次跟部長建議過啦陸老師這個這個政策講快一點他們做的成績不好不能因為這些都是你們交通幫的退下來去做陸老師啊你們就是編預算編給他450萬並不是很多\n\n29\n00:10:26,946 --> 00:10:45,578\n但是效果一定會大打折扣我要拜託林所長重新改變預算我們支持但是不要忘了這效果不好我必須要去提醒一下所以我也拜託雖然450萬並非很多但是你要恰到好處嘛\n\n30\n00:10:46,178 --> 00:11:02,788\n你明明知道老人家根本不會上網你去做這些幹什麼你明明知道路老師這些都是要我們的委辦會但是成效不髒的所以這個因為時間關係我要拜託部長你可能雖然是450萬小問題\n\n31\n00:11:05,109 --> 00:11:17,938\n但是這個就成為是讓那個名字平高而讓會馬因為本來老人家不是用這種軟體陸老師成果不好那你們偏偏為什麼還要再編這個預算\n\n32\n00:11:19,478 --> 00:11:37,177\n跟委員報告我們這個有跟會收集國際的一些案例不是只有軟體事實上是搭配很重要的體驗活動所以不一定是陸老師好啦那你編列預算要講清楚好不好你如果講不清楚欸被我砍掉你不要怪我啊\n\n33\n00:11:37,517 --> 00:11:53,923\n因為你自己講不清楚的啊我已經產生錯覺啊但是你們為什麼不講清楚所以這個部分要拜託部長可能要監督其實編列預算不要敷立法委員啦其實立法委員大家都很認真啦你寫出來怎麼樣我們就會聯想什麼那如果你沒有寫的我們也會把問題找出來所以要拜託\n\n34\n00:12:01,186 --> 00:12:02,129\n審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4485\t5546\t應安會林主委行調組組長\n31263\t56705\t我對於你們這些調查單位跟這些研究單位啊過去與我個人對於你們的認知基本上你們各種編列預算只要是按部就班去做基本上我們是支持可是有一些問題我們必須要去提醒我們林組委也就是我們輕航機的事故\n58897\t75612\t到底誰要來調查誰要來管這是很重要的林主委所以我在這裡就是清航機的事那最近一件就是12月9號在屏東的\n77054\t86550\t事故這個第一我要了解你們現在調查如何這第一第二為什麼12月9號\n90568\t111415\t這個機種跟這一架飛機已經聯繫兩次的事故。不過每一次都是鬧出人命之後才開始要來重視。所以主委你存在的功能你們貴委員會存在的功能本來就是有瑕疵就調查\n112495\t131594\t有問題就要就正本來就是這樣所以我要請教我們主委這個12月9號這一架輕航機在屏東所發生這個你們進行調查的如何可以不可以跟本席說明一下嗎\n132762\t160280\t報告委員這個案子已經確實是立案調查那麼他是連續陳主委員剛剛所提的他這個超新級載具的私事的這種系統性我們已經在做統計分析那麼我們最近也跟民航局有聯繫說講這個有一些議題譬如說有大部分三個主要議題是說他沒有在核定的空域裡面來進行會案活動這是違法的\n161201\t179007\t那麼他差遣採集的維修保養紀錄也坦白講不是那麼完整還有最主要他沒有遵照會行所測的相關規範來操作這個我們跟民進黨局最近也在跟他開會他們也知道他們會加派人力來督導好啦那個那個會員組來\n182435\t199333\t那個主委所講這些是一個大方向你們現在所調查的這些因為我在乎的就是輕航機他管理跟他的安全因為你們調查之後才有辦法在管理部分如何約束\n199753\t220009\t議員議員議員議員\n220529\t245431\t輕航機它已經兩次發生事故了那問題在哪邊問題在哪邊這個不是只有這個飛行員的問題喔那應該是不是他的機種或者他改裝之後是確實是有問題來組長你可以不可以說明一下再深入技巧性你們調查的結果跟本席說明一下好不好\n246570\t274923\t是,跟李委員報告一下目前來講在輕航機這個調查方向我們在主委的指導之下我們也非常重視這一些事情那根據過去的一些調查的報告已經結案的一些事件裡面大體上就是對於輕航機上面我們的維修有一些維修它並不完全按照原廠給的一些規範這是我們覺得是幾乎的一個重點\n275723\t290941\t同時在飛行操作的部分在訓練方面我們也發掘了一些重點都在我們的調查報告上面可以看得到關於林委員指教的就是未來的管理方面因為現在的這個輕航機\n292402\t307393\t現在的頻率會越來越多包含最近還有一些無人機等等這個頻率會越來越多所以我們目前來講已經跟民航局的標準組我們一起再去看這一方面的事情\n307913\t332779\t那個我建議啦從七月份八月份我現在跑步你可以看得出來七月份八月份十一月份十二月份這些輕航機的事故他迫降機率非常嚴重也就是每一個月幾乎每一個月都有這些輕航機的意外的不斷甚至有人受傷這個部分我要拜託主委跟拜託我們這個委員會裡面各組啊\n336360\t339381\t兩、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會\n356249\t379703\t要預防也就是如何去預防這很重要所以我特別要提醒主委不要因為這些你們平常的這些調查影響你們的預算這是我特別要提醒所以希望主委跟我們各組這裡要盡到一些調查跟監督跟建議之責任好不好\n380723\t382104\t五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算\n402074\t419093\t主動非常重要不要人家10天以後跟你們通報以後你們才來做這個功能幾乎是不可以好不好好那個主委請回謝謝好那個請我們陳部長還有我們那個林所長林記國所長\n428647\t448960\t我想部長因為我簡單說一下啦因為你也已經我們同事也已經講這個台鐵漲價的問題嘛那你也講過年以前不可能漲價啦那我還是要特別提醒你我有看到我們這次\n449881\t464836\t改制為國營公司化之後看起來客人容量跟他的收入是增加的所以這個部分我還是要建議就是我們台鐵漲價的部分真的\n465416\t478801\t也不要事事都一定要事先預告老百姓讓他們提心吊膽沒有必要但是我這裡要建議也就是我們營運虧損補貼辦法說我們政府要補貼這個部分我要拜託部長盡快給他們\n485664\t509946\t為什麼我要問這個那主要是我們虧損補貼的部分最主要是牽涉到員工要計算如何要不要發人中獎金所以這個這個跟員工權利有關所以這個我特別我特別要拜託部長要去關心這個因為員工啊\n510606\t516511\tbicy,這個部分我們有跟那個主計總署已經有達成共識了,我們有一個確定的方案,折衷方案,所以這個我們會盡快。\n532563\t556523\t因為年終快到了他們現在董事會要計算是牽涉到我虧損的是彌補是不是可以可以可以卡不過去所以這個就會影響他們的年終獎金花跟不花這個問題這個沒問題這個我要拜託部長一下好另外這是我們那個那個應安手啊我要拜託你們你們在研究這些當然對交通有幫助\n557406\t563298\t可是有一點你們那個老人家習慣也就是你們編列450萬去開發高齡道安學習軟體\n570558\t597716\t我必須要提醒林首長你們不要動不動老人家只要超過70歲他怎麼會去運用這些少之又少依照年輕人20歲以下那當然用的是百分之百那未來他們會用但是經過70歲他使用力只有百分之0.8所以你花了這些錢去做這些\n598636\t599616\t四合嗎?\n599616\t623325\t這第一個我要提醒喔你們編列預算是有編列這一筆還有另外我還要跟您所長你們不要動不動就是陸老師啊我上次跟部長建議過啦陸老師這個這個政策講快一點他們做的成績不好不能因為這些都是你們交通幫的退下來去做陸老師啊你們就是編預算編給他450萬並不是很多\n626946\t645578\t但是效果一定會大打折扣我要拜託林所長重新改變預算我們支持但是不要忘了這效果不好我必須要去提醒一下所以我也拜託雖然450萬並非很多但是你要恰到好處嘛\n646178\t662788\t你明明知道老人家根本不會上網你去做這些幹什麼你明明知道路老師這些都是要我們的委辦會但是成效不髒的所以這個因為時間關係我要拜託部長你可能雖然是450萬小問題\n665109\t677938\t但是這個就成為是讓那個名字平高而讓會馬因為本來老人家不是用這種軟體陸老師成果不好那你們偏偏為什麼還要再編這個預算\n679478\t697177\t跟委員報告我們這個有跟會收集國際的一些案例不是只有軟體事實上是搭配很重要的體驗活動所以不一定是陸老師好啦那你編列預算要講清楚好不好你如果講不清楚欸被我砍掉你不要怪我啊\n697517\t713923\t因為你自己講不清楚的啊我已經產生錯覺啊但是你們為什麼不講清楚所以這個部分要拜託部長可能要監督其實編列預算不要敷立法委員啦其實立法委員大家都很認真啦你寫出來怎麼樣我們就會聯想什麼那如果你沒有寫的我們也會把問題找出來所以要拜託\n721186\t722129\t審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會\n","txt":"應安會林主委行調組組長\n我對於你們這些調查單位跟這些研究單位啊過去與我個人對於你們的認知基本上你們各種編列預算只要是按部就班去做基本上我們是支持可是有一些問題我們必須要去提醒我們林組委也就是我們輕航機的事故\n到底誰要來調查誰要來管這是很重要的林主委所以我在這裡就是清航機的事那最近一件就是12月9號在屏東的\n事故這個第一我要了解你們現在調查如何這第一第二為什麼12月9號\n這個機種跟這一架飛機已經聯繫兩次的事故。不過每一次都是鬧出人命之後才開始要來重視。所以主委你存在的功能你們貴委員會存在的功能本來就是有瑕疵就調查\n有問題就要就正本來就是這樣所以我要請教我們主委這個12月9號這一架輕航機在屏東所發生這個你們進行調查的如何可以不可以跟本席說明一下嗎\n報告委員這個案子已經確實是立案調查那麼他是連續陳主委員剛剛所提的他這個超新級載具的私事的這種系統性我們已經在做統計分析那麼我們最近也跟民航局有聯繫說講這個有一些議題譬如說有大部分三個主要議題是說他沒有在核定的空域裡面來進行會案活動這是違法的\n那麼他差遣採集的維修保養紀錄也坦白講不是那麼完整還有最主要他沒有遵照會行所測的相關規範來操作這個我們跟民進黨局最近也在跟他開會他們也知道他們會加派人力來督導好啦那個那個會員組來\n那個主委所講這些是一個大方向你們現在所調查的這些因為我在乎的就是輕航機他管理跟他的安全因為你們調查之後才有辦法在管理部分如何約束\n議員議員議員議員\n輕航機它已經兩次發生事故了那問題在哪邊問題在哪邊這個不是只有這個飛行員的問題喔那應該是不是他的機種或者他改裝之後是確實是有問題來組長你可以不可以說明一下再深入技巧性你們調查的結果跟本席說明一下好不好\n是,跟李委員報告一下目前來講在輕航機這個調查方向我們在主委的指導之下我們也非常重視這一些事情那根據過去的一些調查的報告已經結案的一些事件裡面大體上就是對於輕航機上面我們的維修有一些維修它並不完全按照原廠給的一些規範這是我們覺得是幾乎的一個重點\n同時在飛行操作的部分在訓練方面我們也發掘了一些重點都在我們的調查報告上面可以看得到關於林委員指教的就是未來的管理方面因為現在的這個輕航機\n現在的頻率會越來越多包含最近還有一些無人機等等這個頻率會越來越多所以我們目前來講已經跟民航局的標準組我們一起再去看這一方面的事情\n那個我建議啦從七月份八月份我現在跑步你可以看得出來七月份八月份十一月份十二月份這些輕航機的事故他迫降機率非常嚴重也就是每一個月幾乎每一個月都有這些輕航機的意外的不斷甚至有人受傷這個部分我要拜託主委跟拜託我們這個委員會裡面各組啊\n兩、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會\n要預防也就是如何去預防這很重要所以我特別要提醒主委不要因為這些你們平常的這些調查影響你們的預算這是我特別要提醒所以希望主委跟我們各組這裡要盡到一些調查跟監督跟建議之責任好不好\n五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算\n主動非常重要不要人家10天以後跟你們通報以後你們才來做這個功能幾乎是不可以好不好好那個主委請回謝謝好那個請我們陳部長還有我們那個林所長林記國所長\n我想部長因為我簡單說一下啦因為你也已經我們同事也已經講這個台鐵漲價的問題嘛那你也講過年以前不可能漲價啦那我還是要特別提醒你我有看到我們這次\n改制為國營公司化之後看起來客人容量跟他的收入是增加的所以這個部分我還是要建議就是我們台鐵漲價的部分真的\n也不要事事都一定要事先預告老百姓讓他們提心吊膽沒有必要但是我這裡要建議也就是我們營運虧損補貼辦法說我們政府要補貼這個部分我要拜託部長盡快給他們\n為什麼我要問這個那主要是我們虧損補貼的部分最主要是牽涉到員工要計算如何要不要發人中獎金所以這個這個跟員工權利有關所以這個我特別我特別要拜託部長要去關心這個因為員工啊\nbicy,這個部分我們有跟那個主計總署已經有達成共識了,我們有一個確定的方案,折衷方案,所以這個我們會盡快。\n因為年終快到了他們現在董事會要計算是牽涉到我虧損的是彌補是不是可以可以可以卡不過去所以這個就會影響他們的年終獎金花跟不花這個問題這個沒問題這個我要拜託部長一下好另外這是我們那個那個應安手啊我要拜託你們你們在研究這些當然對交通有幫助\n可是有一點你們那個老人家習慣也就是你們編列450萬去開發高齡道安學習軟體\n我必須要提醒林首長你們不要動不動老人家只要超過70歲他怎麼會去運用這些少之又少依照年輕人20歲以下那當然用的是百分之百那未來他們會用但是經過70歲他使用力只有百分之0.8所以你花了這些錢去做這些\n四合嗎?\n這第一個我要提醒喔你們編列預算是有編列這一筆還有另外我還要跟您所長你們不要動不動就是陸老師啊我上次跟部長建議過啦陸老師這個這個政策講快一點他們做的成績不好不能因為這些都是你們交通幫的退下來去做陸老師啊你們就是編預算編給他450萬並不是很多\n但是效果一定會大打折扣我要拜託林所長重新改變預算我們支持但是不要忘了這效果不好我必須要去提醒一下所以我也拜託雖然450萬並非很多但是你要恰到好處嘛\n你明明知道老人家根本不會上網你去做這些幹什麼你明明知道路老師這些都是要我們的委辦會但是成效不髒的所以這個因為時間關係我要拜託部長你可能雖然是450萬小問題\n但是這個就成為是讓那個名字平高而讓會馬因為本來老人家不是用這種軟體陸老師成果不好那你們偏偏為什麼還要再編這個預算\n跟委員報告我們這個有跟會收集國際的一些案例不是只有軟體事實上是搭配很重要的體驗活動所以不一定是陸老師好啦那你編列預算要講清楚好不好你如果講不清楚欸被我砍掉你不要怪我啊\n因為你自己講不清楚的啊我已經產生錯覺啊但是你們為什麼不講清楚所以這個部分要拜託部長可能要監督其實編列預算不要敷立法委員啦其實立法委員大家都很認真啦你寫出來怎麼樣我們就會聯想什麼那如果你沒有寫的我們也會把問題找出來所以要拜託\n審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.485 --> 00:05.546\n應安會林主委行調組組長\n\n00:31.263 --> 00:56.705\n我對於你們這些調查單位跟這些研究單位啊過去與我個人對於你們的認知基本上你們各種編列預算只要是按部就班去做基本上我們是支持可是有一些問題我們必須要去提醒我們林組委也就是我們輕航機的事故\n\n00:58.897 --> 01:15.612\n到底誰要來調查誰要來管這是很重要的林主委所以我在這裡就是清航機的事那最近一件就是12月9號在屏東的\n\n01:17.054 --> 01:26.550\n事故這個第一我要了解你們現在調查如何這第一第二為什麼12月9號\n\n01:30.568 --> 01:51.415\n這個機種跟這一架飛機已經聯繫兩次的事故。不過每一次都是鬧出人命之後才開始要來重視。所以主委你存在的功能你們貴委員會存在的功能本來就是有瑕疵就調查\n\n01:52.495 --> 02:11.594\n有問題就要就正本來就是這樣所以我要請教我們主委這個12月9號這一架輕航機在屏東所發生這個你們進行調查的如何可以不可以跟本席說明一下嗎\n\n02:12.762 --> 02:40.280\n報告委員這個案子已經確實是立案調查那麼他是連續陳主委員剛剛所提的他這個超新級載具的私事的這種系統性我們已經在做統計分析那麼我們最近也跟民航局有聯繫說講這個有一些議題譬如說有大部分三個主要議題是說他沒有在核定的空域裡面來進行會案活動這是違法的\n\n02:41.201 --> 02:59.007\n那麼他差遣採集的維修保養紀錄也坦白講不是那麼完整還有最主要他沒有遵照會行所測的相關規範來操作這個我們跟民進黨局最近也在跟他開會他們也知道他們會加派人力來督導好啦那個那個會員組來\n\n03:02.435 --> 03:19.333\n那個主委所講這些是一個大方向你們現在所調查的這些因為我在乎的就是輕航機他管理跟他的安全因為你們調查之後才有辦法在管理部分如何約束\n\n03:40.529 --> 04:05.431\n輕航機它已經兩次發生事故了那問題在哪邊問題在哪邊這個不是只有這個飛行員的問題喔那應該是不是他的機種或者他改裝之後是確實是有問題來組長你可以不可以說明一下再深入技巧性你們調查的結果跟本席說明一下好不好\n\n04:06.570 --> 04:34.923\n是,跟李委員報告一下目前來講在輕航機這個調查方向我們在主委的指導之下我們也非常重視這一些事情那根據過去的一些調查的報告已經結案的一些事件裡面大體上就是對於輕航機上面我們的維修有一些維修它並不完全按照原廠給的一些規範這是我們覺得是幾乎的一個重點\n\n04:35.723 --> 04:50.941\n同時在飛行操作的部分在訓練方面我們也發掘了一些重點都在我們的調查報告上面可以看得到關於林委員指教的就是未來的管理方面因為現在的這個輕航機\n\n04:52.402 --> 05:07.393\n現在的頻率會越來越多包含最近還有一些無人機等等這個頻率會越來越多所以我們目前來講已經跟民航局的標準組我們一起再去看這一方面的事情\n\n05:07.913 --> 05:32.779\n那個我建議啦從七月份八月份我現在跑步你可以看得出來七月份八月份十一月份十二月份這些輕航機的事故他迫降機率非常嚴重也就是每一個月幾乎每一個月都有這些輕航機的意外的不斷甚至有人受傷這個部分我要拜託主委跟拜託我們這個委員會裡面各組啊\n\n05:36.360 --> 05:39.381\n兩、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會\n\n05:56.249 --> 06:19.703\n要預防也就是如何去預防這很重要所以我特別要提醒主委不要因為這些你們平常的這些調查影響你們的預算這是我特別要提醒所以希望主委跟我們各組這裡要盡到一些調查跟監督跟建議之責任好不好\n\n06:20.723 --> 06:22.104\n五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算\n\n06:42.074 --> 06:59.093\n主動非常重要不要人家10天以後跟你們通報以後你們才來做這個功能幾乎是不可以好不好好那個主委請回謝謝好那個請我們陳部長還有我們那個林所長林記國所長\n\n07:08.647 --> 07:28.960\n我想部長因為我簡單說一下啦因為你也已經我們同事也已經講這個台鐵漲價的問題嘛那你也講過年以前不可能漲價啦那我還是要特別提醒你我有看到我們這次\n\n07:29.881 --> 07:44.836\n改制為國營公司化之後看起來客人容量跟他的收入是增加的所以這個部分我還是要建議就是我們台鐵漲價的部分真的\n\n07:45.416 --> 07:58.801\n也不要事事都一定要事先預告老百姓讓他們提心吊膽沒有必要但是我這裡要建議也就是我們營運虧損補貼辦法說我們政府要補貼這個部分我要拜託部長盡快給他們\n\n08:05.664 --> 08:29.946\n為什麼我要問這個那主要是我們虧損補貼的部分最主要是牽涉到員工要計算如何要不要發人中獎金所以這個這個跟員工權利有關所以這個我特別我特別要拜託部長要去關心這個因為員工啊\n\n08:30.606 --> 08:36.511\nbicy,這個部分我們有跟那個主計總署已經有達成共識了,我們有一個確定的方案,折衷方案,所以這個我們會盡快。\n\n08:52.563 --> 09:16.523\n因為年終快到了他們現在董事會要計算是牽涉到我虧損的是彌補是不是可以可以可以卡不過去所以這個就會影響他們的年終獎金花跟不花這個問題這個沒問題這個我要拜託部長一下好另外這是我們那個那個應安手啊我要拜託你們你們在研究這些當然對交通有幫助\n\n09:17.406 --> 09:23.298\n可是有一點你們那個老人家習慣也就是你們編列450萬去開發高齡道安學習軟體\n\n09:30.558 --> 09:57.716\n我必須要提醒林首長你們不要動不動老人家只要超過70歲他怎麼會去運用這些少之又少依照年輕人20歲以下那當然用的是百分之百那未來他們會用但是經過70歲他使用力只有百分之0.8所以你花了這些錢去做這些\n\n09:58.636 --> 09:59.616\n四合嗎?\n\n09:59.616 --> 10:23.325\n這第一個我要提醒喔你們編列預算是有編列這一筆還有另外我還要跟您所長你們不要動不動就是陸老師啊我上次跟部長建議過啦陸老師這個這個政策講快一點他們做的成績不好不能因為這些都是你們交通幫的退下來去做陸老師啊你們就是編預算編給他450萬並不是很多\n\n10:26.946 --> 10:45.578\n但是效果一定會大打折扣我要拜託林所長重新改變預算我們支持但是不要忘了這效果不好我必須要去提醒一下所以我也拜託雖然450萬並非很多但是你要恰到好處嘛\n\n10:46.178 --> 11:02.788\n你明明知道老人家根本不會上網你去做這些幹什麼你明明知道路老師這些都是要我們的委辦會但是成效不髒的所以這個因為時間關係我要拜託部長你可能雖然是450萬小問題\n\n11:05.109 --> 11:17.938\n但是這個就成為是讓那個名字平高而讓會馬因為本來老人家不是用這種軟體陸老師成果不好那你們偏偏為什麼還要再編這個預算\n\n11:19.478 --> 11:37.177\n跟委員報告我們這個有跟會收集國際的一些案例不是只有軟體事實上是搭配很重要的體驗活動所以不一定是陸老師好啦那你編列預算要講清楚好不好你如果講不清楚欸被我砍掉你不要怪我啊\n\n11:37.517 --> 11:53.923\n因為你自己講不清楚的啊我已經產生錯覺啊但是你們為什麼不講清楚所以這個部分要拜託部長可能要監督其實編列預算不要敷立法委員啦其實立法委員大家都很認真啦你寫出來怎麼樣我們就會聯想什麼那如果你沒有寫的我們也會把問題找出來所以要拜託\n\n12:01.186 --> 12:02.129\n審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.485,"end":5.546,"text":"應安會林主委行調組組長"},{"start":31.263,"end":56.705,"text":"我對於你們這些調查單位跟這些研究單位啊過去與我個人對於你們的認知基本上你們各種編列預算只要是按部就班去做基本上我們是支持可是有一些問題我們必須要去提醒我們林組委也就是我們輕航機的事故"},{"start":58.897,"end":75.612,"text":"到底誰要來調查誰要來管這是很重要的林主委所以我在這裡就是清航機的事那最近一件就是12月9號在屏東的"},{"start":77.054,"end":86.55,"text":"事故這個第一我要了解你們現在調查如何這第一第二為什麼12月9號"},{"start":90.568,"end":111.415,"text":"這個機種跟這一架飛機已經聯繫兩次的事故。不過每一次都是鬧出人命之後才開始要來重視。所以主委你存在的功能你們貴委員會存在的功能本來就是有瑕疵就調查"},{"start":112.495,"end":131.594,"text":"有問題就要就正本來就是這樣所以我要請教我們主委這個12月9號這一架輕航機在屏東所發生這個你們進行調查的如何可以不可以跟本席說明一下嗎"},{"start":132.762,"end":160.28,"text":"報告委員這個案子已經確實是立案調查那麼他是連續陳主委員剛剛所提的他這個超新級載具的私事的這種系統性我們已經在做統計分析那麼我們最近也跟民航局有聯繫說講這個有一些議題譬如說有大部分三個主要議題是說他沒有在核定的空域裡面來進行會案活動這是違法的"},{"start":161.201,"end":179.007,"text":"那麼他差遣採集的維修保養紀錄也坦白講不是那麼完整還有最主要他沒有遵照會行所測的相關規範來操作這個我們跟民進黨局最近也在跟他開會他們也知道他們會加派人力來督導好啦那個那個會員組來"},{"start":182.435,"end":199.333,"text":"那個主委所講這些是一個大方向你們現在所調查的這些因為我在乎的就是輕航機他管理跟他的安全因為你們調查之後才有辦法在管理部分如何約束"},{"start":199.753,"end":220.009,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":220.529,"end":245.431,"text":"輕航機它已經兩次發生事故了那問題在哪邊問題在哪邊這個不是只有這個飛行員的問題喔那應該是不是他的機種或者他改裝之後是確實是有問題來組長你可以不可以說明一下再深入技巧性你們調查的結果跟本席說明一下好不好"},{"start":246.57,"end":274.923,"text":"是,跟李委員報告一下目前來講在輕航機這個調查方向我們在主委的指導之下我們也非常重視這一些事情那根據過去的一些調查的報告已經結案的一些事件裡面大體上就是對於輕航機上面我們的維修有一些維修它並不完全按照原廠給的一些規範這是我們覺得是幾乎的一個重點"},{"start":275.723,"end":290.941,"text":"同時在飛行操作的部分在訓練方面我們也發掘了一些重點都在我們的調查報告上面可以看得到關於林委員指教的就是未來的管理方面因為現在的這個輕航機"},{"start":292.402,"end":307.393,"text":"現在的頻率會越來越多包含最近還有一些無人機等等這個頻率會越來越多所以我們目前來講已經跟民航局的標準組我們一起再去看這一方面的事情"},{"start":307.913,"end":332.779,"text":"那個我建議啦從七月份八月份我現在跑步你可以看得出來七月份八月份十一月份十二月份這些輕航機的事故他迫降機率非常嚴重也就是每一個月幾乎每一個月都有這些輕航機的意外的不斷甚至有人受傷這個部分我要拜託主委跟拜託我們這個委員會裡面各組啊"},{"start":336.36,"end":339.381,"text":"兩、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會"},{"start":356.249,"end":379.703,"text":"要預防也就是如何去預防這很重要所以我特別要提醒主委不要因為這些你們平常的這些調查影響你們的預算這是我特別要提醒所以希望主委跟我們各組這裡要盡到一些調查跟監督跟建議之責任好不好"},{"start":380.723,"end":382.104,"text":"五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":402.074,"end":419.093,"text":"主動非常重要不要人家10天以後跟你們通報以後你們才來做這個功能幾乎是不可以好不好好那個主委請回謝謝好那個請我們陳部長還有我們那個林所長林記國所長"},{"start":428.647,"end":448.96,"text":"我想部長因為我簡單說一下啦因為你也已經我們同事也已經講這個台鐵漲價的問題嘛那你也講過年以前不可能漲價啦那我還是要特別提醒你我有看到我們這次"},{"start":449.881,"end":464.836,"text":"改制為國營公司化之後看起來客人容量跟他的收入是增加的所以這個部分我還是要建議就是我們台鐵漲價的部分真的"},{"start":465.416,"end":478.801,"text":"也不要事事都一定要事先預告老百姓讓他們提心吊膽沒有必要但是我這裡要建議也就是我們營運虧損補貼辦法說我們政府要補貼這個部分我要拜託部長盡快給他們"},{"start":485.664,"end":509.946,"text":"為什麼我要問這個那主要是我們虧損補貼的部分最主要是牽涉到員工要計算如何要不要發人中獎金所以這個這個跟員工權利有關所以這個我特別我特別要拜託部長要去關心這個因為員工啊"},{"start":510.606,"end":516.511,"text":" bicy,這個部分我們有跟那個主計總署已經有達成共識了,我們有一個確定的方案,折衷方案,所以這個我們會盡快。"},{"start":532.563,"end":556.523,"text":"因為年終快到了他們現在董事會要計算是牽涉到我虧損的是彌補是不是可以可以可以卡不過去所以這個就會影響他們的年終獎金花跟不花這個問題這個沒問題這個我要拜託部長一下好另外這是我們那個那個應安手啊我要拜託你們你們在研究這些當然對交通有幫助"},{"start":557.406,"end":563.298,"text":"可是有一點你們那個老人家習慣也就是你們編列450萬去開發高齡道安學習軟體"},{"start":570.558,"end":597.716,"text":"我必須要提醒林首長你們不要動不動老人家只要超過70歲他怎麼會去運用這些少之又少依照年輕人20歲以下那當然用的是百分之百那未來他們會用但是經過70歲他使用力只有百分之0.8所以你花了這些錢去做這些"},{"start":598.636,"end":599.616,"text":"四合嗎?"},{"start":599.616,"end":623.325,"text":"這第一個我要提醒喔你們編列預算是有編列這一筆還有另外我還要跟您所長你們不要動不動就是陸老師啊我上次跟部長建議過啦陸老師這個這個政策講快一點他們做的成績不好不能因為這些都是你們交通幫的退下來去做陸老師啊你們就是編預算編給他450萬並不是很多"},{"start":626.946,"end":645.578,"text":"但是效果一定會大打折扣我要拜託林所長重新改變預算我們支持但是不要忘了這效果不好我必須要去提醒一下所以我也拜託雖然450萬並非很多但是你要恰到好處嘛"},{"start":646.178,"end":662.788,"text":"你明明知道老人家根本不會上網你去做這些幹什麼你明明知道路老師這些都是要我們的委辦會但是成效不髒的所以這個因為時間關係我要拜託部長你可能雖然是450萬小問題"},{"start":665.109,"end":677.938,"text":"但是這個就成為是讓那個名字平高而讓會馬因為本來老人家不是用這種軟體陸老師成果不好那你們偏偏為什麼還要再編這個預算"},{"start":679.478,"end":697.177,"text":"跟委員報告我們這個有跟會收集國際的一些案例不是只有軟體事實上是搭配很重要的體驗活動所以不一定是陸老師好啦那你編列預算要講清楚好不好你如果講不清楚欸被我砍掉你不要怪我啊"},{"start":697.517,"end":713.923,"text":"因為你自己講不清楚的啊我已經產生錯覺啊但是你們為什麼不講清楚所以這個部分要拜託部長可能要監督其實編列預算不要敷立法委員啦其實立法委員大家都很認真啦你寫出來怎麼樣我們就會聯想什麼那如果你沒有寫的我們也會把問題找出來所以要拜託"},{"start":721.186,"end":722.129,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":294,"blocks":[["林委員國成：（9時57分）謝謝主席，請運安會林主委。"],["主席：運安會林主委。"],["林委員國成：另外航調組要不要上來幫忙一下？"],["主席：航調組組長。"],["林主任委員信得：委員好。"],["林委員國成：主委，其實我對於你們這些調查單位跟研究單位，過去以我個人對於你們的認知，你們各種編列預算只要是按部就班去做，基本上我們是支持。可是有一些問題我們必須要去提醒林主委，也就是我們輕航機的事故、飛安，到底誰要來調查？誰要來管？這是很重要的。林主委，所以我要問輕航機的事，最近一件就是12月9號在屏東的事故，第一，我要了解，你們現在調查得如何？第二，為什麼12月9號……這個機種跟這一架飛機已經連續兩次的事故，不要每一次都是鬧出人命之後才開始要來重視。主委，你存在的功能，貴委員會存在的功能，本來就是有瑕疵就調查，有問題就要糾正，本來就是這樣。所以我要請教主委，12月9號這一架輕航機在屏東所發生的事故，你們進行調查得如何，可不可以跟本席說明一下？"],["林主任委員信得：報告委員，這個案子已經確實立案調查，它是連續，誠如委員剛剛所提的，超輕型載具失事的系統性，我們已經在做統計分析。我們最近也跟民航局有聯繫，有三個主要議題，譬如他沒有在核定的空域裡面來進行飛航活動，這是違法的，還有超輕型載具的維修保養紀錄，坦白講也不是那麼完整。最主要他沒有遵照飛行手冊的相關規範來操作，這個最近我們跟民航局也在開會討論，他們也知道，會加派人力來督導。"],["林委員國成：好，飛安組，主委所講這些是一個大方向，你們現在所調查的這些，我在乎的就是輕航機的管理跟安全，因為你們調查之後才有辦法在管理部分討論如何約束，但你們調查不出來，講這些是民航局來管，但是你們調查的結果會連帶影響他們的管理。我要請問組長，你們現在調查，我比較在乎的是這一臺輕航機，它已經兩次發生事故了，問題在哪邊？這個不是只有飛行員的問題喔，是不是它的機種，或者它改裝之後確實是有問題，組長，你可不可以說明一下，再深入、技巧性地你們的調查結果，跟本席說明一下，好不好？"],["劉組長東明：是，跟林委員報告一下。目前來講在輕航機的調查方向，我們在主委的指導之下，我們也非常重視這一些事情。根據過去一些調查的報告，已經結案的一些事件裡面，大體上就是對於輕航機上面的一些維修，它並不完全按照原廠給的一些規範，我們覺得這是一個重點。同時在飛行操作的部分，在訓練方面，我們也發覺了一些重點，都在我們的調查報告上面可以看得到。林委員指教的是未來的管理方面，因為現在輕航機頻率會越來越多，包含最近還有一些無人機等等，頻率會越來越多，目前來講，我們已經跟民航局的標準組，我們一起再去看這一方面的事情。"],["林委員國成：好，我建議啦，我現在的PowerPoint你可以看得出來，7月份、8月份，11月份、12月份，這些輕航機的事故迫降機率，情況非常嚴重，也就是幾乎每一個月都有輕航機的意外不斷，甚至有人受傷。這個部分，我要拜託主委，拜託我們委員會裡面各組，針對這些問題要趕快未雨綢繆把問題找出來，不然只會有越來越多的輕航機，事故也會越來越多。我們的監督功能跟調查功能，不要只有調查，我們調查事故之後要預防，也就是如何去預防，這很重要。所以我特別要提醒主委，不要因為你們平常的這些調查，而影響你們的預算，這是我特別要提醒，所以希望主委跟我們各組這裡要盡到一些調查、監督跟建議之責任，好不好？"],["林主任委員信得：是，我們會提出安全改善建議。"],["林委員國成：還有一點，很簡單，在7月份這件在烏日的事情，發生10天了你們才知道耶！"],["林主任委員信得：所以我們有處罰他，因為他沒有通報。"],["林委員國成：主委，不是啦！我們提出來，特別你們要主動，這非常重要，不要10天以後，跟你們通報以後，你們才來做，這個功能幾乎是不可以啦，好不好？好，主委請回。"],["林主任委員信得：謝謝。"],["林委員國成：請陳部長。"],["主席：交通部陳部長。"],["林委員國成：還有林所長。"],["主席：林繼國所長。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["林委員國成：部長，我簡單說一下，因為我們同事也已經講臺鐵漲價的問題嘛，你也講過年以前不可能漲價啦，我還是要特別提醒你，我有看到我們這次改制為國營公司化之後，看起來客人容量跟它的收入是增加……"],["陳部長世凱：是，沒錯。"],["林委員國成：所以這個部分，我還是要建議，臺鐵漲價的部分，真的，也不要事事都一定要事先預告老百姓，讓他們提心吊膽，沒有必要。但是我這裡要建議，也就是營運虧損補貼辦法，我們政府要補貼的這個部分，我要拜託部長儘快給他們，為什麼我要問這個？主要是我們虧損補貼的部分，最主要是牽涉到員工要計算要不要發年終獎金。"],["陳部長世凱：是，這跟員工權益相關。"],["林委員國成：這跟員工權利有關，所以我特別拜託部長要關心這個部分。"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["林委員國成：因為員工、勞工要的不多，只是他的安定跟他的確定，所以你如果不撥這些，會影響他們的計算，年終到底給不給這個問題。部長，這個事情……"],["陳部長世凱：好，報告委員，這個部分我們跟主計總處已經有達成共識了，我們有一個確定的方案、折衷方案……"],["林委員國成：儘快啦！"],["陳部長世凱：所以這個我們會儘快。"],["林委員國成：部長，儘快啦！因為年終快到了，現在他們董事會要計算牽涉到虧損的彌補是不是可以cover過去，所以這就會影響他們的年終獎金發跟不發這個問題。"],["陳部長世凱：這個沒問題，我已經……"],["林委員國成：這個我要拜託部長一下。"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["林委員國成：另外，有關運安所，我要拜託你們，你們在研究這些當然對交通有幫助，可是有一點，對於老人家的習慣，也就是你們編列450萬開發高齡道安學習軟體，我必須要提醒林所長，老人家只要超過70歲，他怎麼會去運用這些？少之又少。依照年輕人20歲以下，當然用的是100%，未來他們會用，但是經過70歲，他使用率只有0.8%，所以你花了這些錢去做這些，適合嗎？這是第一個，我要提醒，你們編列預算是有編列這一筆。另外我還要跟林所長提醒，你們不要動不動就是路老師，我上次跟部長建議過，路老師這個政策，講快一點，他們做的成績不好，不能因為這些都是你們交通幫退下來去做路老師，你們就編預算給他，450萬並不是很多，但是效果一定會大打折扣。我要拜託林所長重新改變，預算我們支持，但是不要忘了這個效果不好，我必須要提醒一下。","所以我也拜託，雖然450萬並非很多，但是你要恰到好處嘛！你明明知道老人家根本不會上網，你去做這些幹什麼？你明明知道路老師這些都是要我們的委辦費，但是成效不彰。因為時間關係，我要拜託部長，雖然是450萬小問題，但是這個就浪費民脂民膏嘛！因為本來老人家不適用這種軟體，路老師政策成果不好，你們為什麼偏偏還要再編這個預算？"],["林所長繼國：跟委員報告，我們有蒐集國際的一些案例，不是只有軟體，事實上是搭配很重要的體驗活動，所以不一定是路老師。"],["林委員國成：好啦，那你編列預算要講清楚，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：是，我們跟委員說明一下。"],["林委員國成：你如果講不清楚，被我砍掉，你不要怪我啊！因為你自己講不清楚的啊！"],["陳部長世凱：我們跟委員說明。"],["林所長繼國：是，我們來跟委員報告。"],["林委員國成：我已經產生錯覺，但是你們為什麼不講清楚？所以這個部分要拜託部長可能要監督。"],["陳部長世凱：好，再請委員多……"],["林委員國成：其實編列預算不要敷衍立法委員啦，其實立法委員大家都很認真啦，你寫出來怎麼樣，我們就會聯想什麼，如果你沒有寫的，我們也會把問題找出來，所以要拜託，預算就是該給的我們給，不該給的我們一定刪，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好，我們會跟委員說明。"],["林所長繼國：謝謝委員，我們……"],["林委員國成：好，謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝林國成委員。","接下來就有請林俊憲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":444,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-15","speakers":["魯明哲","李昆澤","林國成","林俊憲","陳素月","蔡其昌","游顥","何欣純","徐富癸","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","楊瓊瓔","牛煦庭","許智傑","鍾佳濱","黃健豪"],"page_start":379,"meetingDate":["2024-12-16"],"gazette_id":"1140501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140501_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查114\n年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算；三、審查114年度中央政府總預\n算案關於交通部運輸研究所單位預算；四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部鐵道局及\n所屬單位預算；五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交\n通作業基金─鐵道發展基金分預算【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1140501_00014"}}}