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0.917}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"福\", \"start\": 513.444, \"end\": 513.644, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 513.644, \"end\": 513.664, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:07,623\n好,謝謝主席。請主席邀請陳部長。好,交通部陳部長。部長早安。今天委員會是針對運安會、運營所以及鐵道局的相關預算巡導。那本席在這邊也再次的來關心一下目前這個彰化市的鐵路高架的一個確定的一個進度,是不是可以簡單說明一下?\n\n2\n00:00:34,509 --> 00:00:45,284\n報告委員,如您目前所列,目前是已經進入細部規劃的部分,已經在細部規劃,那四夕工程公司也已經針對所有的細節已經在做評估了。\n\n3\n00:00:49,990 --> 00:01:07,770\n所以就是之前就是說有關這個基檢段的這個位置遲遲沒有辦法確定現在都已經這些都已經確定了跟彰化縣政府也都達成共識了是那以目前這樣子的一個進度我們預計什麼時候可以有動工的這樣子的一個\n\n4\n00:01:09,132 --> 00:01:33,613\n我是不是請局長?跟我們報告因為現在方案確定之後我們還要完成相關的規劃作業跟環評估計規劃作業還需要一年然後環評的話呢要看環評的程序通常會要超過一年半左右所以等到中規核定估計在115年那或者是114年底有機會核定那才會進到設計跟施工\n\n5\n00:01:35,359 --> 00:01:36,203\n是114年還是115年?中規核定。\n\n6\n00:01:39,828 --> 00:02:04,457\n我們現在判斷是要到115。應該要到115年。所以還要再好幾年的時間。好,那這個部分我們希望就是說中央該負責的這個程序我們就是要加緊這個行政的效率不要老是被地方政府甩鍋說是我們在就是延擋這個程序。那再來就是說有關這個經費負擔的部分因為\n\n7\n00:02:07,518 --> 00:02:22,344\nbicyn也都蠻關心的,因為也看到之前這個工程會主委他有拋出說這個依然鐵路高架的這個地方負擔可以下降,那在就這個部分我們彰化縣的這個負擔的部分有可能再下降嗎?\n\n8\n00:02:23,417 --> 00:02:46,395\n報告委員這是都是固定比例啦依每一個縣市他的這個財政的狀況我們都是固定比例不管是桃園或者是台南或者高雄其實都是固定比例在處理那另外還有一個方案就是說專案協商的部分有些縣市有些比較特殊的狀況可能要透過行政院那邊做專案協商的方式才會做改變那對交通部的立場來講我們其實都是固定比例\n\n9\n00:02:47,085 --> 00:03:05,322\n是,所以就是全國一致性,就是不會說有例外,就是說別的縣是可以那彰化縣?除非的例外就是說有提出專案協商在這個行政院的部分進行專案協商才有可能會稍微做改變,那不然我們就是照固定比例在走。\n\n10\n00:03:25,725 --> 00:03:28,126\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算\n\n11\n00:03:50,089 --> 00:04:09,738\n受限於台中市的進度是嗎?其實應該是說他整體的這個規劃的過程當中章化縣政府要趕快提供那個落站點提供落站點其實他整體的這個規劃就有辦法把它規劃進去那目前因為整個章東的這個都市計畫目前還沒有完全定案所以這個部分可能有些延宕\n\n12\n00:04:11,509 --> 00:04:27,644\n如果說彰化縣政府對於這個落站點目前是規劃兩個站嗎?是不是?是兩個站。新增兩個站。那如果說他這兩個落站點一直沒有辦法解決,這樣子是不是也會等於失去延長到台中市的一個捷運的一個進度?\n\n13\n00:04:28,837 --> 00:04:48,977\n確實台中市那邊也有在反映這件事就是說他們希望說有沒有可能還是就是彰化之後切開處理就是台中市的部分先走不然他們也擔心說台中市的部分會去做到延宕的狀況是不是應該要一起做會比較好這樣進度才會一致\n\n14\n00:04:49,997 --> 00:04:53,880\nbicyn以建設來說要合併在一起建設會比較好不過因為彰化的這個張東的這個都市計畫的問題那這個一直拖著確實是一直拖著\n\n15\n00:05:20,197 --> 00:05:22,738\nadequatetothecurrentsituation.\n\n16\n00:05:42,388 --> 00:05:44,430\nbicyclieChan,SanFranciscoCityCouncil\n\n17\n00:05:59,460 --> 00:06:22,963\nbicyclia呃這個分配的話了哈那在台中綠線的部分中央也要整個跟台中一起的話也要補助到182億多這麼龐大的一個經費未來如果說才化法通過之後我們中央的建設經費短少了那這些計畫還做得下去嗎\n\n18\n00:06:24,512 --> 00:06:49,229\n報告委員要看中央的整體的財務的狀況對於地方的補助如果中央沒錢那當然對地方補助的比例或許就要重新再來談是重新來談就是我們中央都沒錢了那我原本要對啊我們原本要負擔的這個幾百億的這個錢我們還有這個能力去負擔這樣高額的一個比例的經費嗎\n\n19\n00:06:50,926 --> 00:07:06,970\n是不曉得最後結論是怎麼樣啦會擔心說如果到時候我們該補助給地方的這個經費確實因為財化法的這個重新的估算那讓我們的預算也減少了那預算減少其實我們能夠支出的當然也就必然就少了\n\n20\n00:07:07,150 --> 00:07:21,491\n就這個軌道計劃建設啊就是最後還是會我們中央去發包執行嘛對不對因為這是涉及到專業工程專業的一個部分結運的部分是地方如果是高價化或立體化是中央\n\n21\n00:07:22,068 --> 00:07:22,888\nadequatetothe\n\n22\n00:07:43,619 --> 00:08:01,320\n繼整個地方的一個建設的一個發展我們還是在這邊希望這個國民黨要三思因為畢竟地方的這個事務也是就是整個建設的推動也是非常的繁重那涉及到重大工程的部分像這個軌道建設\n\n23\n00:08:02,682 --> 00:08:24,372\nbedingt地方的一個人才也不足所以還是要仰賴中央來執行所以中央沒有錢了所以這個建設勢必會被延擋了這樣子對整個地方的一個發展跟百姓都是不是一個好的一個現象所以我們還是希望就是說在這個中央的財化法的部分我們還是要有一個合理的一個規劃跟合理的一個\n\n24\n00:08:26,593 --> 00:08:33,664\nbicyclope,在這邊希望我們就是要去思考到地方的一個建設發展跟百姓的一個福利,謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3680\t7623\t好,謝謝主席。請主席邀請陳部長。好,交通部陳部長。部長早安。今天委員會是針對運安會、運營所以及鐵道局的相關預算巡導。那本席在這邊也再次的來關心一下目前這個彰化市的鐵路高架的一個確定的一個進度,是不是可以簡單說明一下?\n34509\t45284\t報告委員,如您目前所列,目前是已經進入細部規劃的部分,已經在細部規劃,那四夕工程公司也已經針對所有的細節已經在做評估了。\n49990\t67770\t所以就是之前就是說有關這個基檢段的這個位置遲遲沒有辦法確定現在都已經這些都已經確定了跟彰化縣政府也都達成共識了是那以目前這樣子的一個進度我們預計什麼時候可以有動工的這樣子的一個\n69132\t93613\t我是不是請局長?跟我們報告因為現在方案確定之後我們還要完成相關的規劃作業跟環評估計規劃作業還需要一年然後環評的話呢要看環評的程序通常會要超過一年半左右所以等到中規核定估計在115年那或者是114年底有機會核定那才會進到設計跟施工\n95359\t96203\t是114年還是115年?中規核定。\n99828\t124457\t我們現在判斷是要到115。應該要到115年。所以還要再好幾年的時間。好,那這個部分我們希望就是說中央該負責的這個程序我們就是要加緊這個行政的效率不要老是被地方政府甩鍋說是我們在就是延擋這個程序。那再來就是說有關這個經費負擔的部分因為\n127518\t142344\tbicyn 也都蠻關心的,因為也看到之前這個工程會主委他有拋出說這個依然鐵路高架的這個地方負擔可以下降,那在就這個部分我們彰化縣的這個負擔的部分有可能再下降嗎?\n143417\t166395\t報告委員這是都是固定比例啦依每一個縣市他的這個財政的狀況我們都是固定比例不管是桃園或者是台南或者高雄其實都是固定比例在處理那另外還有一個方案就是說專案協商的部分有些縣市有些比較特殊的狀況可能要透過行政院那邊做專案協商的方式才會做改變那對交通部的立場來講我們其實都是固定比例\n167085\t185322\t是,所以就是全國一致性,就是不會說有例外,就是說別的縣是可以那彰化縣?除非的例外就是說有提出專案協商在這個行政院的部分進行專案協商才有可能會稍微做改變,那不然我們就是照固定比例在走。\n185742\t205725\t議員議員議員\n205725\t208126\t二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算\n230089\t249738\t受限於台中市的進度是嗎?其實應該是說他整體的這個規劃的過程當中章化縣政府要趕快提供那個落站點提供落站點其實他整體的這個規劃就有辦法把它規劃進去那目前因為整個章東的這個都市計畫目前還沒有完全定案所以這個部分可能有些延宕\n251509\t267644\t如果說彰化縣政府對於這個落站點目前是規劃兩個站嗎?是不是?是兩個站。新增兩個站。那如果說他這兩個落站點一直沒有辦法解決,這樣子是不是也會等於失去延長到台中市的一個捷運的一個進度?\n268837\t288977\t確實台中市那邊也有在反映這件事就是說他們希望說有沒有可能還是就是彰化之後切開處理就是台中市的部分先走不然他們也擔心說台中市的部分會去做到延宕的狀況是不是應該要一起做會比較好這樣進度才會一致\n289997\t293880\tbicyn 以建設來說要合併在一起建設會比較好不過因為彰化的這個張東的這個都市計畫的問題那這個一直拖著確實是一直拖著\n320197\t322738\tadequate to the current situation.\n342388\t344430\tbicyclie Chan, San Francisco City Council\n359460\t382963\tbicyclia 呃這個分配的話了哈那在台中綠線的部分中央也要整個跟台中一起的話也要補助到182億多這麼龐大的一個經費未來如果說才化法通過之後我們中央的建設經費短少了那這些計畫還做得下去嗎\n384512\t409229\t報告委員要看中央的整體的財務的狀況對於地方的補助如果中央沒錢那當然對地方補助的比例或許就要重新再來談是重新來談就是我們中央都沒錢了那我原本要對啊我們原本要負擔的這個幾百億的這個錢我們還有這個能力去負擔這樣高額的一個比例的經費嗎\n410926\t426970\t是不曉得最後結論是怎麼樣啦會擔心說如果到時候我們該補助給地方的這個經費確實因為財化法的這個重新的估算那讓我們的預算也減少了那預算減少其實我們能夠支出的當然也就必然就少了\n427150\t441491\t就這個軌道計劃建設啊就是最後還是會我們中央去發包執行嘛對不對因為這是涉及到專業工程專業的一個部分結運的部分是地方如果是高價化或立體化是中央\n442068\t442888\tadequate to the\n463619\t481320\t繼整個地方的一個建設的一個發展我們還是在這邊希望這個國民黨要三思因為畢竟地方的這個事務也是就是整個建設的推動也是非常的繁重那涉及到重大工程的部分像這個軌道建設\n482682\t504372\tbedingt地方的一個人才也不足所以還是要仰賴中央來執行所以中央沒有錢了所以這個建設勢必會被延擋了這樣子對整個地方的一個發展跟百姓都是不是一個好的一個現象所以我們還是希望就是說在這個中央的財化法的部分我們還是要有一個合理的一個規劃跟合理的一個\n506593\t513664\tbicyclope,在這邊希望我們就是要去思考到地方的一個建設發展跟百姓的一個福利,謝謝。\n","txt":"好,謝謝主席。請主席邀請陳部長。好,交通部陳部長。部長早安。今天委員會是針對運安會、運營所以及鐵道局的相關預算巡導。那本席在這邊也再次的來關心一下目前這個彰化市的鐵路高架的一個確定的一個進度,是不是可以簡單說明一下?\n報告委員,如您目前所列,目前是已經進入細部規劃的部分,已經在細部規劃,那四夕工程公司也已經針對所有的細節已經在做評估了。\n所以就是之前就是說有關這個基檢段的這個位置遲遲沒有辦法確定現在都已經這些都已經確定了跟彰化縣政府也都達成共識了是那以目前這樣子的一個進度我們預計什麼時候可以有動工的這樣子的一個\n我是不是請局長?跟我們報告因為現在方案確定之後我們還要完成相關的規劃作業跟環評估計規劃作業還需要一年然後環評的話呢要看環評的程序通常會要超過一年半左右所以等到中規核定估計在115年那或者是114年底有機會核定那才會進到設計跟施工\n是114年還是115年?中規核定。\n我們現在判斷是要到115。應該要到115年。所以還要再好幾年的時間。好,那這個部分我們希望就是說中央該負責的這個程序我們就是要加緊這個行政的效率不要老是被地方政府甩鍋說是我們在就是延擋這個程序。那再來就是說有關這個經費負擔的部分因為\nbicyn 也都蠻關心的,因為也看到之前這個工程會主委他有拋出說這個依然鐵路高架的這個地方負擔可以下降,那在就這個部分我們彰化縣的這個負擔的部分有可能再下降嗎?\n報告委員這是都是固定比例啦依每一個縣市他的這個財政的狀況我們都是固定比例不管是桃園或者是台南或者高雄其實都是固定比例在處理那另外還有一個方案就是說專案協商的部分有些縣市有些比較特殊的狀況可能要透過行政院那邊做專案協商的方式才會做改變那對交通部的立場來講我們其實都是固定比例\n是,所以就是全國一致性,就是不會說有例外,就是說別的縣是可以那彰化縣?除非的例外就是說有提出專案協商在這個行政院的部分進行專案協商才有可能會稍微做改變,那不然我們就是照固定比例在走。\n議員議員議員\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算\n受限於台中市的進度是嗎?其實應該是說他整體的這個規劃的過程當中章化縣政府要趕快提供那個落站點提供落站點其實他整體的這個規劃就有辦法把它規劃進去那目前因為整個章東的這個都市計畫目前還沒有完全定案所以這個部分可能有些延宕\n如果說彰化縣政府對於這個落站點目前是規劃兩個站嗎?是不是?是兩個站。新增兩個站。那如果說他這兩個落站點一直沒有辦法解決,這樣子是不是也會等於失去延長到台中市的一個捷運的一個進度?\n確實台中市那邊也有在反映這件事就是說他們希望說有沒有可能還是就是彰化之後切開處理就是台中市的部分先走不然他們也擔心說台中市的部分會去做到延宕的狀況是不是應該要一起做會比較好這樣進度才會一致\nbicyn 以建設來說要合併在一起建設會比較好不過因為彰化的這個張東的這個都市計畫的問題那這個一直拖著確實是一直拖著\nadequate to the current situation.\nbicyclie Chan, San Francisco City Council\nbicyclia 呃這個分配的話了哈那在台中綠線的部分中央也要整個跟台中一起的話也要補助到182億多這麼龐大的一個經費未來如果說才化法通過之後我們中央的建設經費短少了那這些計畫還做得下去嗎\n報告委員要看中央的整體的財務的狀況對於地方的補助如果中央沒錢那當然對地方補助的比例或許就要重新再來談是重新來談就是我們中央都沒錢了那我原本要對啊我們原本要負擔的這個幾百億的這個錢我們還有這個能力去負擔這樣高額的一個比例的經費嗎\n是不曉得最後結論是怎麼樣啦會擔心說如果到時候我們該補助給地方的這個經費確實因為財化法的這個重新的估算那讓我們的預算也減少了那預算減少其實我們能夠支出的當然也就必然就少了\n就這個軌道計劃建設啊就是最後還是會我們中央去發包執行嘛對不對因為這是涉及到專業工程專業的一個部分結運的部分是地方如果是高價化或立體化是中央\nadequate to the\n繼整個地方的一個建設的一個發展我們還是在這邊希望這個國民黨要三思因為畢竟地方的這個事務也是就是整個建設的推動也是非常的繁重那涉及到重大工程的部分像這個軌道建設\nbedingt地方的一個人才也不足所以還是要仰賴中央來執行所以中央沒有錢了所以這個建設勢必會被延擋了這樣子對整個地方的一個發展跟百姓都是不是一個好的一個現象所以我們還是希望就是說在這個中央的財化法的部分我們還是要有一個合理的一個規劃跟合理的一個\nbicyclope,在這邊希望我們就是要去思考到地方的一個建設發展跟百姓的一個福利,謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.680 --> 00:07.623\n好,謝謝主席。請主席邀請陳部長。好,交通部陳部長。部長早安。今天委員會是針對運安會、運營所以及鐵道局的相關預算巡導。那本席在這邊也再次的來關心一下目前這個彰化市的鐵路高架的一個確定的一個進度,是不是可以簡單說明一下?\n\n00:34.509 --> 00:45.284\n報告委員,如您目前所列,目前是已經進入細部規劃的部分,已經在細部規劃,那四夕工程公司也已經針對所有的細節已經在做評估了。\n\n00:49.990 --> 01:07.770\n所以就是之前就是說有關這個基檢段的這個位置遲遲沒有辦法確定現在都已經這些都已經確定了跟彰化縣政府也都達成共識了是那以目前這樣子的一個進度我們預計什麼時候可以有動工的這樣子的一個\n\n01:09.132 --> 01:33.613\n我是不是請局長?跟我們報告因為現在方案確定之後我們還要完成相關的規劃作業跟環評估計規劃作業還需要一年然後環評的話呢要看環評的程序通常會要超過一年半左右所以等到中規核定估計在115年那或者是114年底有機會核定那才會進到設計跟施工\n\n01:35.359 --> 01:36.203\n是114年還是115年?中規核定。\n\n01:39.828 --> 02:04.457\n我們現在判斷是要到115。應該要到115年。所以還要再好幾年的時間。好,那這個部分我們希望就是說中央該負責的這個程序我們就是要加緊這個行政的效率不要老是被地方政府甩鍋說是我們在就是延擋這個程序。那再來就是說有關這個經費負擔的部分因為\n\n02:07.518 --> 02:22.344\nbicyn也都蠻關心的,因為也看到之前這個工程會主委他有拋出說這個依然鐵路高架的這個地方負擔可以下降,那在就這個部分我們彰化縣的這個負擔的部分有可能再下降嗎?\n\n02:23.417 --> 02:46.395\n報告委員這是都是固定比例啦依每一個縣市他的這個財政的狀況我們都是固定比例不管是桃園或者是台南或者高雄其實都是固定比例在處理那另外還有一個方案就是說專案協商的部分有些縣市有些比較特殊的狀況可能要透過行政院那邊做專案協商的方式才會做改變那對交通部的立場來講我們其實都是固定比例\n\n02:47.085 --> 03:05.322\n是,所以就是全國一致性,就是不會說有例外,就是說別的縣是可以那彰化縣?除非的例外就是說有提出專案協商在這個行政院的部分進行專案協商才有可能會稍微做改變,那不然我們就是照固定比例在走。\n\n03:25.725 --> 03:28.126\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算\n\n03:50.089 --> 04:09.738\n受限於台中市的進度是嗎?其實應該是說他整體的這個規劃的過程當中章化縣政府要趕快提供那個落站點提供落站點其實他整體的這個規劃就有辦法把它規劃進去那目前因為整個章東的這個都市計畫目前還沒有完全定案所以這個部分可能有些延宕\n\n04:11.509 --> 04:27.644\n如果說彰化縣政府對於這個落站點目前是規劃兩個站嗎?是不是?是兩個站。新增兩個站。那如果說他這兩個落站點一直沒有辦法解決,這樣子是不是也會等於失去延長到台中市的一個捷運的一個進度?\n\n04:28.837 --> 04:48.977\n確實台中市那邊也有在反映這件事就是說他們希望說有沒有可能還是就是彰化之後切開處理就是台中市的部分先走不然他們也擔心說台中市的部分會去做到延宕的狀況是不是應該要一起做會比較好這樣進度才會一致\n\n04:49.997 --> 04:53.880\nbicyn以建設來說要合併在一起建設會比較好不過因為彰化的這個張東的這個都市計畫的問題那這個一直拖著確實是一直拖著\n\n05:20.197 --> 05:22.738\nadequatetothecurrentsituation.\n\n05:42.388 --> 05:44.430\nbicyclieChan,SanFranciscoCityCouncil\n\n05:59.460 --> 06:22.963\nbicyclia呃這個分配的話了哈那在台中綠線的部分中央也要整個跟台中一起的話也要補助到182億多這麼龐大的一個經費未來如果說才化法通過之後我們中央的建設經費短少了那這些計畫還做得下去嗎\n\n06:24.512 --> 06:49.229\n報告委員要看中央的整體的財務的狀況對於地方的補助如果中央沒錢那當然對地方補助的比例或許就要重新再來談是重新來談就是我們中央都沒錢了那我原本要對啊我們原本要負擔的這個幾百億的這個錢我們還有這個能力去負擔這樣高額的一個比例的經費嗎\n\n06:50.926 --> 07:06.970\n是不曉得最後結論是怎麼樣啦會擔心說如果到時候我們該補助給地方的這個經費確實因為財化法的這個重新的估算那讓我們的預算也減少了那預算減少其實我們能夠支出的當然也就必然就少了\n\n07:07.150 --> 07:21.491\n就這個軌道計劃建設啊就是最後還是會我們中央去發包執行嘛對不對因為這是涉及到專業工程專業的一個部分結運的部分是地方如果是高價化或立體化是中央\n\n07:22.068 --> 07:22.888\nadequatetothe\n\n07:43.619 --> 08:01.320\n繼整個地方的一個建設的一個發展我們還是在這邊希望這個國民黨要三思因為畢竟地方的這個事務也是就是整個建設的推動也是非常的繁重那涉及到重大工程的部分像這個軌道建設\n\n08:02.682 --> 08:24.372\nbedingt地方的一個人才也不足所以還是要仰賴中央來執行所以中央沒有錢了所以這個建設勢必會被延擋了這樣子對整個地方的一個發展跟百姓都是不是一個好的一個現象所以我們還是希望就是說在這個中央的財化法的部分我們還是要有一個合理的一個規劃跟合理的一個\n\n08:26.593 --> 08:33.664\nbicyclope,在這邊希望我們就是要去思考到地方的一個建設發展跟百姓的一個福利,謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.68,"end":7.623,"text":"好,謝謝主席。請主席邀請陳部長。好,交通部陳部長。部長早安。今天委員會是針對運安會、運營所以及鐵道局的相關預算巡導。那本席在這邊也再次的來關心一下目前這個彰化市的鐵路高架的一個確定的一個進度,是不是可以簡單說明一下?"},{"start":34.509,"end":45.284,"text":"報告委員,如您目前所列,目前是已經進入細部規劃的部分,已經在細部規劃,那四夕工程公司也已經針對所有的細節已經在做評估了。"},{"start":49.99,"end":67.77,"text":"所以就是之前就是說有關這個基檢段的這個位置遲遲沒有辦法確定現在都已經這些都已經確定了跟彰化縣政府也都達成共識了是那以目前這樣子的一個進度我們預計什麼時候可以有動工的這樣子的一個"},{"start":69.132,"end":93.613,"text":"我是不是請局長?跟我們報告因為現在方案確定之後我們還要完成相關的規劃作業跟環評估計規劃作業還需要一年然後環評的話呢要看環評的程序通常會要超過一年半左右所以等到中規核定估計在115年那或者是114年底有機會核定那才會進到設計跟施工"},{"start":95.359,"end":96.203,"text":"是114年還是115年?中規核定。"},{"start":99.828,"end":124.457,"text":"我們現在判斷是要到115。應該要到115年。所以還要再好幾年的時間。好,那這個部分我們希望就是說中央該負責的這個程序我們就是要加緊這個行政的效率不要老是被地方政府甩鍋說是我們在就是延擋這個程序。那再來就是說有關這個經費負擔的部分因為"},{"start":127.518,"end":142.344,"text":" bicyn 也都蠻關心的,因為也看到之前這個工程會主委他有拋出說這個依然鐵路高架的這個地方負擔可以下降,那在就這個部分我們彰化縣的這個負擔的部分有可能再下降嗎?"},{"start":143.417,"end":166.395,"text":"報告委員這是都是固定比例啦依每一個縣市他的這個財政的狀況我們都是固定比例不管是桃園或者是台南或者高雄其實都是固定比例在處理那另外還有一個方案就是說專案協商的部分有些縣市有些比較特殊的狀況可能要透過行政院那邊做專案協商的方式才會做改變那對交通部的立場來講我們其實都是固定比例"},{"start":167.085,"end":185.322,"text":"是,所以就是全國一致性,就是不會說有例外,就是說別的縣是可以那彰化縣?除非的例外就是說有提出專案協商在這個行政院的部分進行專案協商才有可能會稍微做改變,那不然我們就是照固定比例在走。"},{"start":185.742,"end":205.725,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":205.725,"end":208.126,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部運輸安全調查委員會單位預算"},{"start":230.089,"end":249.738,"text":"受限於台中市的進度是嗎?其實應該是說他整體的這個規劃的過程當中章化縣政府要趕快提供那個落站點提供落站點其實他整體的這個規劃就有辦法把它規劃進去那目前因為整個章東的這個都市計畫目前還沒有完全定案所以這個部分可能有些延宕"},{"start":251.509,"end":267.644,"text":"如果說彰化縣政府對於這個落站點目前是規劃兩個站嗎?是不是?是兩個站。新增兩個站。那如果說他這兩個落站點一直沒有辦法解決,這樣子是不是也會等於失去延長到台中市的一個捷運的一個進度?"},{"start":268.837,"end":288.977,"text":"確實台中市那邊也有在反映這件事就是說他們希望說有沒有可能還是就是彰化之後切開處理就是台中市的部分先走不然他們也擔心說台中市的部分會去做到延宕的狀況是不是應該要一起做會比較好這樣進度才會一致"},{"start":289.997,"end":293.88,"text":" bicyn 以建設來說要合併在一起建設會比較好不過因為彰化的這個張東的這個都市計畫的問題那這個一直拖著確實是一直拖著"},{"start":320.197,"end":322.738,"text":"adequate to the current situation."},{"start":342.388,"end":344.43,"text":" bicyclie Chan, San Francisco City Council"},{"start":359.46,"end":382.963,"text":" bicyclia 呃這個分配的話了哈那在台中綠線的部分中央也要整個跟台中一起的話也要補助到182億多這麼龐大的一個經費未來如果說才化法通過之後我們中央的建設經費短少了那這些計畫還做得下去嗎"},{"start":384.512,"end":409.229,"text":"報告委員要看中央的整體的財務的狀況對於地方的補助如果中央沒錢那當然對地方補助的比例或許就要重新再來談是重新來談就是我們中央都沒錢了那我原本要對啊我們原本要負擔的這個幾百億的這個錢我們還有這個能力去負擔這樣高額的一個比例的經費嗎"},{"start":410.926,"end":426.97,"text":"是不曉得最後結論是怎麼樣啦會擔心說如果到時候我們該補助給地方的這個經費確實因為財化法的這個重新的估算那讓我們的預算也減少了那預算減少其實我們能夠支出的當然也就必然就少了"},{"start":427.15,"end":441.491,"text":"就這個軌道計劃建設啊就是最後還是會我們中央去發包執行嘛對不對因為這是涉及到專業工程專業的一個部分結運的部分是地方如果是高價化或立體化是中央"},{"start":442.068,"end":442.888,"text":"adequate to the"},{"start":463.619,"end":481.32,"text":"繼整個地方的一個建設的一個發展我們還是在這邊希望這個國民黨要三思因為畢竟地方的這個事務也是就是整個建設的推動也是非常的繁重那涉及到重大工程的部分像這個軌道建設"},{"start":482.682,"end":504.372,"text":"bedingt地方的一個人才也不足所以還是要仰賴中央來執行所以中央沒有錢了所以這個建設勢必會被延擋了這樣子對整個地方的一個發展跟百姓都是不是一個好的一個現象所以我們還是希望就是說在這個中央的財化法的部分我們還是要有一個合理的一個規劃跟合理的一個"},{"start":506.593,"end":513.664,"text":" bicyclope,在這邊希望我們就是要去思考到地方的一個建設發展跟百姓的一個福利,謝謝。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":426,"blocks":[["陳委員素月：（10時20分）謝謝主席，請主席邀請陳部長。"],["主席：交通部陳部長。"],["陳委員素月：部長早安。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["陳委員素月：今天委員會是針對運安會、運研所以及鐵道局的相關預算詢答，本席在這邊也再次的來關心一下目前彰化市鐵路高架的確定進度，是不是可以簡單說明一下？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，就如您所列，目前已經進入細部規劃的部分，那世曦工程公司也已經針對所有的細節在做評估了。"],["陳委員素月：之前有關機檢段的位置遲遲沒有辦法確定，現在都已經……"],["陳部長世凱：這些都已經確定了，跟彰化縣政府也都達成共識了。"],["陳委員素月：那以目前這樣子的進度，我們預計什麼時候可以動工？"],["陳部長世凱：我是不是請局長來說明？"],["陳委員素月：好。"],["楊局長正君：跟委員報告，現在方案確定之後，我們還要完成相關的規劃作業跟環評，估計規劃作業還需要一年，然後環評的話，要看環評的程序，通常會超過一年半左右，所以等到綜規核定，估計在115年，或者是114年底有機會核定，才會進到設計跟施工。"],["陳委員素月：綜規核定是114年還是115年？"],["楊局長正君：我們現在判斷是要到115年。"],["陳部長世凱：應該要到115年。"],["陳委員素月：115年核定之後才做細部，所以還要再好幾年的時間，那這個部分我們希望中央該負責的程序，就要加緊行政的效率，不要老是被地方政府甩鍋，說是我們在延宕這個程序。再來，有關經費負擔的部分鄉親也都滿關心的，因為也看到之前工程會主委他有拋出說，宜蘭鐵路高架的地方負擔可以下降，就這個部分，我們彰化縣負擔的部分有可能再下降嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，這個都是固定比例啦！依每一個縣市的財政狀況，我們都是固定比例，不管是桃園或者是臺南或者高雄，其實都是固定比例在處理。另外還有一個方案就是專案協商的部分，有些縣市有一些比較特殊的狀況，可能要透過行政院那邊做專案協商的方式，才會做改變，那對交通部的立場來講，我們其實都是固定比例。"],["陳委員素月：所以就是全國一致性，不會有例外？"],["陳部長世凱：是，這個部分我們是一致性。"],["陳委員素月：就是說別的縣市可以，那彰化縣……"],["陳部長世凱：除非的例外就是有提出專案協商，在行政院的部分進行專案協商，才有可能會稍微做改變，不然我們都是照固定比例在走。"],["陳委員素月：好。彰化市鐵路高架也是關係著整個彰化市的發展，彰化市的發展腹地比較受侷限，因為鐵道的阻隔讓市區的交通真的造成很多瓶頸，所以我們也希望這個工程真的能夠儘快有一個進度，然後儘快的早日高架化能夠完成。","接下來我想再請教一下有關臺中捷運綠線延伸到彰化的進度，目前的進度是如何？"],["楊局長正君：跟委員報告，現在是臺中市政府在辦理相關的綜合規劃作業當中。"],["陳委員素月：所以我們彰化縣的進度，是會受限於臺中市的進度是嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：其實應該是說它整體的規劃過程當中，彰化縣政府要趕快提供落站點，它整體的規劃就有辦法把它規劃進去，那目前因為整個彰東的都市計畫還沒有完全定案，所以這個部分可能有些延宕。"],["陳委員素月：如果彰化縣政府對於落站點，目前是規劃兩個站嘛，是不是？"],["陳部長世凱：是兩個站，對。"],["陳委員素月：新增兩個站。那如果這兩個落站點一直沒有辦法解決，這樣是不是也等於會延宕到臺中市捷運的進度？"],["陳部長世凱：確實，臺中市那邊也有在反映這件事，他們希望有沒有可能還是彰化之後切開處理，就是臺中市的部分先走，不然他們也擔心臺中市的部分會導致延宕的狀況。"],["陳委員素月：那是不是應該要一起做會比較好？這樣進度才會一致，不然你切開的話，我想之後……"],["陳部長世凱：以建設來說，合併在一起建設會比較好，不過因為彰化彰東的都市計畫的問題，這部分一直拖著，確實是一直拖著。"],["陳委員素月：是。因為彰化市除了鐵路高架之外，捷運綠線延伸到彰化市也涉及到整個彰化市東區都市計畫的開發，如果這個建設沒有給地方時程上的壓力的話，我想可能也是會一直在拖，一直在延宕。所以如果臺中跟彰化市一起來規劃的話，我想這樣子對於彰化的地方政府應該還是會有一些壓力，能夠加快他們去面對跟解決他們的問題，不然我想他一拖再拖，也不曉得要拖到什麼時候。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["陳委員素月：再來我想請教一下，剛剛看到我們關心的軌道計畫，包括彰化市鐵路高架，若照比例來分配的話，中央就要負擔296.3億；臺中綠線延伸彰化的部分，除了臺中的部分外，中央也要補助到一百八十二億多，這麼龐大的經費，未來如果財劃法通過之後，中央的建設經費短少了，那這些計畫還做得下去嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，要看中央整體的財務狀況，對於地方的補助，如果中央沒錢，那當然對地方補助的比例或許就要重新再來談。"],["陳委員素月：是，重新來談，就是我們中央都沒錢了，那我們原本要……"],["陳部長世凱：如果沒錢真的就沒有辦法。"],["陳委員素月：對啊，我們原本要負擔的幾百億的錢，我們還有能力去負擔這樣高額比例的經費嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：不曉得最後結論是怎麼樣，會擔心說如果到時候我們該補助給地方的經費，確實因為財劃法的修正必須重新估算，讓我們的預算也減少了，預算減少我們能夠支出的當然也就必然少了。"],["陳委員素月：就軌道計畫建設部分，最後還是會由我們中央去發包執行嘛，對不對？因為這是涉及工程專業的部分。"],["陳部長世凱：捷運的部分是地方，如果是高架化或立體化是中央。"],["陳委員素月：是。如果財劃法通過之後，我們中央的經費短少了，若彰化鐵路高架發包的部分還是中央在做的話，這樣子我們沒有錢的話，我們也沒辦法做嘛，是不是？"],["陳部長世凱：如果沒錢當然沒辦法做。"],["陳委員素月：對，所以我們希望就整個地方的建設跟發展，我們還是在這邊希望國民黨要三思，因為畢竟地方整個建設事務的推動也是非常繁重，涉及到重大工程的部分，像軌道建設，畢竟地方的人才也不足，還是要仰賴中央來執行，一旦中央沒有錢了，建設就勢必會被延宕了，這樣子對整個地方的發展跟百姓的福祉都不是一個好的現象。所以我們還是希望在財劃法的部分，中央跟地方的財源分配還是要有一個合理的規劃跟思考，希望本院同仁要去思考地方的建設發展跟百姓的福利。謝謝。"],["陳部長世凱：是。謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳素月召委。接下來有請蔡其昌委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":444,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-15","speakers":["魯明哲","李昆澤","林國成","林俊憲","陳素月","蔡其昌","游顥","何欣純","徐富癸","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","楊瓊瓔","牛煦庭","許智傑","鍾佳濱","黃健豪"],"page_start":379,"meetingDate":["2024-12-16"],"gazette_id":"1140501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140501_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查114\n年度中央政府總預算案關於國家運輸安全調查委員會單位預算；三、審查114年度中央政府總預\n算案關於交通部運輸研究所單位預算；四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部鐵道局及\n所屬單位預算；五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交\n通作業基金─鐵道發展基金分預算【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1140501_00014"}}}