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\"我\", \"start\": 826.85, \"end\": 827.151, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 827.151, \"end\": 827.271, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 827.271, \"end\": 827.291, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"秀\", \"start\": 828.051, \"end\": 828.192, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"芳\", \"start\": 828.192, \"end\": 828.212, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,049 --> 00:00:00,229\n黃秀芳,召委、質詢。\n\n2\n00:00:18,220 --> 00:00:46,691\n部長好,部長辛苦了。部長就今天的這個討論我是來希望就是說我們那個衛福部裡面的這個有關霸凌的這個案件那已經結果也有出來嘛那我想請教就是說目前我們不論是行政院或者是我們衛福部這邊有一個霸凌的申訴就是申訴然後可能就是要求如果當事人的話可能就是要具名嘛\n\n3\n00:00:47,331 --> 00:00:48,492\n國際社會福利及衛生福利部長列席報告\n\n4\n00:01:16,262 --> 00:01:39,935\n登錄之後可能就有這個長官找你來談談話就像之前那個勞動部一樣長官也許次長就來談談話談談話完之後覺得這好像也不是霸凌所以這個很多看到的就是說這個長官誤談之後也許就會測案那這個霸凌率可能就變成零\n\n5\n00:01:40,695 --> 00:02:05,308\n我今天要講的就是說其實這個會有一個困境就是說這個申訴管道普遍認為如果說是要具名的話可能讓這個當事人會覺得對於這個管道不是那麼的信任可能會覺得不信任那另外如果說不具名的檢舉的話又留為這個黑函就通常都是這樣嘛尤其是公務機關如果你沒有具名的話\n\n6\n00:02:30,939 --> 00:02:55,898\n是不是可以請先部長先回答?經過這些檢討我們做了一些處理以後我們更重要的是怎麼樣創造一個更友善更沒有零霸凌的一個環境這是我們不管是從法規制度從文化的建立從教育方面我們一定會全力來努力那至於說那個\n\n7\n00:02:57,299 --> 00:03:18,985\n另外就是不記名這個部分就行政院或者是我們也針對所有只要他不記名但是他有能夠講出他的一個事實的當事人以及具體的事證的話我們也會處理像這一次我們其實很多都是不記名在處理的\n\n8\n00:03:20,689 --> 00:03:35,978\n那至於說在相關的一個衛福部怎麼樣來做常規的一個處理這個部分請理事長來幫忙回應一下因為理事長現在是負責的\n\n9\n00:03:36,926 --> 00:03:56,979\nOK,非常非常感謝委員那個垂詢。誠如剛剛部長所說,我們整個這個相關的那個程序確實是在一個非常嚴格而且非常嚴謹的一個程序來進行。我再重複一次,第一個我們的外部委員高達四位。\n\n10\n00:03:57,739 --> 00:03:57,779\n護理部長．\n\n11\n00:04:24,002 --> 00:04:40,196\n其實我們只要就算是不具名但是你有具體指涉當事人以及具體的事證的話其實我們也受理其實我們這一次我們的調查就是根據這個原則所以讓我們的整個這一個收案的標準其實事實上是相對寬鬆的一個情況之下用比較寬鬆的標準來面對這一個事情\n\n12\n00:04:49,504 --> 00:05:07,999\n其實我們發現有時候部門如果有受到這樣子的不合理的對待也許他們會覺得說我直接向媒體爆料也許會直接跟這個部會來申訴的這個效果更好\n\n13\n00:05:08,659 --> 00:05:26,440\n我是覺得說未來這個管道就是說申訴的管道應該要更暢通那如果說以目前來講如果不合時宜的部分應該也要去做一個檢討所以那個次長你覺得說現在目前這樣的一個申訴的一個管道已經很暢通了嗎\n\n14\n00:05:27,341 --> 00:05:54,558\n報告委員其實部長常常跟我們講沒有最好只有更好所以我們這個基本上一定這個部分一定是要來持續精進讓同仁有一個最有尊嚴而且最好的一個整個工作環境其實委員也知道就是說其實在疫情期間還有我們衛福部其實擔負國家很重要的這個責任同仁真的非常辛苦然後還有我們社工長照這個部分但是即使是這樣\n\n15\n00:06:25,879 --> 00:06:27,200\n在衛環委員會這三個部會不論是衛福部、勞動部或環保署\n\n16\n00:06:55,099 --> 00:06:59,685\n環境部這三個部會其實我就以這一個預算審查的會期來講其實勞動部跟環境部兩個加起來的預算的提案都沒有衛福部一個部多\n\n17\n00:07:10,638 --> 00:07:30,786\n所以確實衛福部的這個案子真的非常的吃重而且我們所有的工作同仁確實真的這個工作量也非常大尤其是在預算會期你還要去委員所有的提案你還要一案一案去跟委員去做這個溝通確實真的是案件量也多然後溝通確實有時候\n\n18\n00:07:48,152 --> 00:08:13,493\n之前我們這個辦公室的一個同仁他有到這個衛福部本部去辦理那個醫事人員的證書結果在一樓的這個辦理的窗口辦理文件的時候這個服務人員你們衛福部的服務人員一方面要接電話就是接用那個耳麥接電話一方面又要服務來的這個民眾確實這個工作量真的非常的大那我想請教就是說如果人力不足的話\n\n19\n00:08:14,874 --> 00:08:31,392\n你們有什麼樣的方式可以來補充至少不要讓我們這些公務人員或者是這些衛福部所有的公務人員有的是醫師有的可能就是都是高考及格進來的那你總是要讓他們有一個好的一個工作環境吧\n\n20\n00:08:32,533 --> 00:09:00,826\n我們一直在講就是說這個要讓勞工有一個好的工作環境那即使公務人員你要讓他有一個好的工作環境而不是讓他過勞所以我想請教部長就是說未來我們要怎麼樣去讓我們的這個衛福部裡面的這個工作能夠更有效率然後分工能夠更明確那另外就是說委員會的這個委員所有的提案其實你們衛福部這個預算的這個提案\n\n21\n00:09:02,847 --> 00:09:28,419\n您們的案子真的比這兩個部會加起來還多。確實真的非常辛苦,趙委。是啊,很辛苦。所以我跟他說趙委,那個蘇趙委真的也要幫點忙。尤其剩下幾天的時間,真的要讓這些公務人員一方面能夠順利的去溝通,然後讓這個案子能夠順利,那另外一方面真的也不要讓他們過勞。那我想請教部長,您未來要怎麼做?\n\n22\n00:09:29,693 --> 00:09:46,224\n我想我們為了國家的發展、人民的健康相關的部門特別是衛福部真的是叫日以繼夜我想所有的人除了在上班的時候腦筋響著都是怎麼樣把他的工作做得正有品質\n\n23\n00:09:48,570 --> 00:10:16,081\n人性一個求好一個也是一個求好的人性當然我們一直呼籲我們要有一個上班的時候就上班下班的時候就好好放鬆去做健康的工作跟家人相聚這是一個理想的狀況但是工作的量份量如果超過他上班時間能做的或者是在效率上我們是還有精進的空間的話這個部分的確會讓\n\n24\n00:10:17,898 --> 00:10:41,424\n因為我也算公務機關做了幾十年從臺大醫院還有都是差不多在公務機關其實真的工作同仁都非常的辛苦壓力都非常的大所以我們真的要互相體諒互相支持然後用那領導者就必須要用更有效率讓大家更快樂的\n\n25\n00:10:42,464 --> 00:10:58,183\n的一個方式來帶領那面對外面的壓力有時候主管者也要去承擔不要把壓力承到基層的太多到基層的一個同仁所以是身為主管也必須要去承擔的\n\n26\n00:10:59,364 --> 00:11:24,444\n一個責任,當然主管也不要垮掉。人力不足的部分,其實我覺得應該要去爭取。我們一直不管是預算或者人力,這個都是隨著工作的量以及我們對人民的照顧求好的當中,真的自然就會增加。這個部分真的也是大家需要體諒跟幫忙。\n\n27\n00:11:25,705 --> 00:11:45,262\n這樣才能夠讓我們的公務人員真的過得有尊嚴、快樂然後大家共同來改變一個更好的文化也因為最近的一些事故讓我們的臺灣職場更好不管是勞動或者是公務能夠更好這就是我們這麼辛苦、這麼痛苦之下希望為臺灣能夠還貢獻這個部分\n\n28\n00:11:49,691 --> 00:12:08,643\n我結尾一下,你這樣一直要說我下來。沒有,我當然就是中心的這個請因為預算會期總是這個需要跟所有的委員溝通只是我看到就是說那個衛福部的相關的這個預算提案這麼多這個這麼多確實\n\n29\n00:12:34,696 --> 00:12:58,709\n其實勞工的這個工作環境其實公務人員的這個工作環境也要去重視而不是其實很多公務人員他即使假日加班或晚上加班他也不敢報加班費他就是責任制他就把工作做完那有時候工作做完可能就都三更半夜有時候早上就出門了所以我覺得說我們大家互相體諒那尤其是在這個會期真的我也在這邊誠心的拜託這個召委\n\n30\n00:13:03,752 --> 00:13:04,153\n我回應一下謝謝我想我在醫療這麼久\n\n31\n00:13:20,794 --> 00:13:47,291\n最聽到的可能會比較辛苦的都是衛福部聽說以前這幾天衛生署、衛福部其實都是到晚上都還是燈光開著真的一直都是很辛苦我相信能夠在衛福部工作這麼久真的是在這邊令人敬佩因為我才剛到沒多久我可以感謝過去大家的努力當然未來我們希望\n\n32\n00:13:48,051 --> 00:13:48,212\n謝謝黃秀芳\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n49\t229\t黃秀芳,召委、質詢。\n18220\t46691\t部長好,部長辛苦了。部長就今天的這個討論我是來希望就是說我們那個衛福部裡面的這個有關霸凌的這個案件那已經結果也有出來嘛那我想請教就是說目前我們不論是行政院或者是我們衛福部這邊有一個霸凌的申訴就是申訴然後可能就是要求如果當事人的話可能就是要具名嘛\n47331\t48492\t國際社會福利及衛生福利部長列席報告\n76262\t99935\t登錄之後可能就有這個長官找你來談談話就像之前那個勞動部一樣長官也許次長就來談談話談談話完之後覺得這好像也不是霸凌所以這個很多看到的就是說這個長官誤談之後也許就會測案那這個霸凌率可能就變成零\n100695\t125308\t我今天要講的就是說其實這個會有一個困境就是說這個申訴管道普遍認為如果說是要具名的話可能讓這個當事人會覺得對於這個管道不是那麼的信任可能會覺得不信任那另外如果說不具名的檢舉的話又留為這個黑函就通常都是這樣嘛尤其是公務機關如果你沒有具名的話\n126288\t150350\t⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n150939\t175898\t是不是可以請先部長先回答?經過這些檢討我們做了一些處理以後我們更重要的是怎麼樣創造一個更友善更沒有零霸凌的一個環境這是我們不管是從法規制度從文化的建立從教育方面我們一定會全力來努力那至於說那個\n177299\t198985\t另外就是不記名這個部分就行政院或者是我們也針對所有只要他不記名但是他有能夠講出他的一個事實的當事人以及具體的事證的話我們也會處理像這一次我們其實很多都是不記名在處理的\n200689\t215978\t那至於說在相關的一個衛福部怎麼樣來做常規的一個處理這個部分請理事長來幫忙回應一下因為理事長現在是負責的\n216926\t236979\tOK,非常非常感謝委員那個垂詢。誠如剛剛部長所說,我們整個這個相關的那個程序確實是在一個非常嚴格而且非常嚴謹的一個程序來進行。我再重複一次,第一個我們的外部委員高達四位。\n237739\t237779\t護理部長．\n264002\t280196\t其實我們只要就算是不具名但是你有具體指涉當事人以及具體的事證的話其實我們也受理其實我們這一次我們的調查就是根據這個原則所以讓我們的整個這一個收案的標準其實事實上是相對寬鬆的一個情況之下用比較寬鬆的標準來面對這一個事情\n289504\t307999\t其實我們發現有時候部門如果有受到這樣子的不合理的對待也許他們會覺得說我直接向媒體爆料也許會直接跟這個部會來申訴的這個效果更好\n308659\t326440\t我是覺得說未來這個管道就是說申訴的管道應該要更暢通那如果說以目前來講如果不合時宜的部分應該也要去做一個檢討所以那個次長你覺得說現在目前這樣的一個申訴的一個管道已經很暢通了嗎\n327341\t354558\t報告委員其實部長常常跟我們講沒有最好只有更好所以我們這個基本上一定這個部分一定是要來持續精進讓同仁有一個最有尊嚴而且最好的一個整個工作環境其實委員也知道就是說其實在疫情期間還有我們衛福部其實擔負國家很重要的這個責任同仁真的非常辛苦然後還有我們社工長照這個部分但是即使是這樣\n355879\t385879\t﹗\n385879\t387200\t在衛環委員會這三個部會不論是衛福部、勞動部或環保署\n415099\t419685\t環境部這三個部會其實我就以這一個預算審查的會期來講其實勞動部跟環境部兩個加起來的預算的提案都沒有衛福部一個部多\n430638\t450786\t所以確實衛福部的這個案子真的非常的吃重而且我們所有的工作同仁確實真的這個工作量也非常大尤其是在預算會期你還要去委員所有的提案你還要一案一案去跟委員去做這個溝通確實真的是案件量也多然後溝通確實有時候\n452927\t468012\t響鐘\n468152\t493493\t之前我們這個辦公室的一個同仁他有到這個衛福部本部去辦理那個醫事人員的證書結果在一樓的這個辦理的窗口辦理文件的時候這個服務人員你們衛福部的服務人員一方面要接電話就是接用那個耳麥接電話一方面又要服務來的這個民眾確實這個工作量真的非常的大那我想請教就是說如果人力不足的話\n494874\t511392\t你們有什麼樣的方式可以來補充至少不要讓我們這些公務人員或者是這些衛福部所有的公務人員有的是醫師有的可能就是都是高考及格進來的那你總是要讓他們有一個好的一個工作環境吧\n512533\t540826\t我們一直在講就是說這個要讓勞工有一個好的工作環境那即使公務人員你要讓他有一個好的工作環境而不是讓他過勞所以我想請教部長就是說未來我們要怎麼樣去讓我們的這個衛福部裡面的這個工作能夠更有效率然後分工能夠更明確那另外就是說委員會的這個委員所有的提案其實你們衛福部這個預算的這個提案\n542847\t568419\t您們的案子真的比這兩個部會加起來還多。確實真的非常辛苦,趙委。是啊,很辛苦。所以我跟他說趙委,那個蘇趙委真的也要幫點忙。尤其剩下幾天的時間,真的要讓這些公務人員一方面能夠順利的去溝通,然後讓這個案子能夠順利,那另外一方面真的也不要讓他們過勞。那我想請教部長,您未來要怎麼做?\n569693\t586224\t我想我們為了國家的發展、人民的健康相關的部門特別是衛福部真的是叫日以繼夜我想所有的人除了在上班的時候腦筋響著都是怎麼樣把他的工作做得正有品質\n588570\t616081\t人性一個求好一個也是一個求好的人性當然我們一直呼籲我們要有一個上班的時候就上班下班的時候就好好放鬆去做健康的工作跟家人相聚這是一個理想的狀況但是工作的量份量如果超過他上班時間能做的或者是在效率上我們是還有精進的空間的話這個部分的確會讓\n617898\t641424\t因為我也算公務機關做了幾十年從臺大醫院還有都是差不多在公務機關其實真的工作同仁都非常的辛苦壓力都非常的大所以我們真的要互相體諒互相支持然後用那領導者就必須要用更有效率讓大家更快樂的\n642464\t658183\t的一個方式來帶領那面對外面的壓力有時候主管者也要去承擔不要把壓力承到基層的太多到基層的一個同仁所以是身為主管也必須要去承擔的\n659364\t684444\t一個責任,當然主管也不要垮掉。人力不足的部分,其實我覺得應該要去爭取。我們一直不管是預算或者人力,這個都是隨著工作的量以及我們對人民的照顧求好的當中,真的自然就會增加。這個部分真的也是大家需要體諒跟幫忙。\n685705\t705262\t這樣才能夠讓我們的公務人員真的過得有尊嚴、快樂然後大家共同來改變一個更好的文化也因為最近的一些事故讓我們的臺灣職場更好不管是勞動或者是公務能夠更好這就是我們這麼辛苦、這麼痛苦之下希望為臺灣能夠還貢獻這個部分\n709691\t728643\t我結尾一下,你這樣一直要說我下來。沒有,我當然就是中心的這個請因為預算會期總是這個需要跟所有的委員溝通只是我看到就是說那個衛福部的相關的這個預算提案這麼多這個這麼多確實\n731305\t754616\t響鐘響鐘\n754696\t778709\t其實勞工的這個工作環境其實公務人員的這個工作環境也要去重視而不是其實很多公務人員他即使假日加班或晚上加班他也不敢報加班費他就是責任制他就把工作做完那有時候工作做完可能就都三更半夜有時候早上就出門了所以我覺得說我們大家互相體諒那尤其是在這個會期真的我也在這邊誠心的拜託這個召委\n783752\t784153\t我回應一下謝謝我想我在醫療這麼久\n800794\t827291\t最聽到的可能會比較辛苦的都是衛福部聽說以前這幾天衛生署、衛福部其實都是到晚上都還是燈光開著真的一直都是很辛苦我相信能夠在衛福部工作這麼久真的是在這邊令人敬佩因為我才剛到沒多久我可以感謝過去大家的努力當然未來我們希望\n828051\t828212\t謝謝黃秀芳\n","txt":"黃秀芳,召委、質詢。\n部長好,部長辛苦了。部長就今天的這個討論我是來希望就是說我們那個衛福部裡面的這個有關霸凌的這個案件那已經結果也有出來嘛那我想請教就是說目前我們不論是行政院或者是我們衛福部這邊有一個霸凌的申訴就是申訴然後可能就是要求如果當事人的話可能就是要具名嘛\n國際社會福利及衛生福利部長列席報告\n登錄之後可能就有這個長官找你來談談話就像之前那個勞動部一樣長官也許次長就來談談話談談話完之後覺得這好像也不是霸凌所以這個很多看到的就是說這個長官誤談之後也許就會測案那這個霸凌率可能就變成零\n我今天要講的就是說其實這個會有一個困境就是說這個申訴管道普遍認為如果說是要具名的話可能讓這個當事人會覺得對於這個管道不是那麼的信任可能會覺得不信任那另外如果說不具名的檢舉的話又留為這個黑函就通常都是這樣嘛尤其是公務機關如果你沒有具名的話\n⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n是不是可以請先部長先回答?經過這些檢討我們做了一些處理以後我們更重要的是怎麼樣創造一個更友善更沒有零霸凌的一個環境這是我們不管是從法規制度從文化的建立從教育方面我們一定會全力來努力那至於說那個\n另外就是不記名這個部分就行政院或者是我們也針對所有只要他不記名但是他有能夠講出他的一個事實的當事人以及具體的事證的話我們也會處理像這一次我們其實很多都是不記名在處理的\n那至於說在相關的一個衛福部怎麼樣來做常規的一個處理這個部分請理事長來幫忙回應一下因為理事長現在是負責的\nOK,非常非常感謝委員那個垂詢。誠如剛剛部長所說,我們整個這個相關的那個程序確實是在一個非常嚴格而且非常嚴謹的一個程序來進行。我再重複一次,第一個我們的外部委員高達四位。\n護理部長．\n其實我們只要就算是不具名但是你有具體指涉當事人以及具體的事證的話其實我們也受理其實我們這一次我們的調查就是根據這個原則所以讓我們的整個這一個收案的標準其實事實上是相對寬鬆的一個情況之下用比較寬鬆的標準來面對這一個事情\n其實我們發現有時候部門如果有受到這樣子的不合理的對待也許他們會覺得說我直接向媒體爆料也許會直接跟這個部會來申訴的這個效果更好\n我是覺得說未來這個管道就是說申訴的管道應該要更暢通那如果說以目前來講如果不合時宜的部分應該也要去做一個檢討所以那個次長你覺得說現在目前這樣的一個申訴的一個管道已經很暢通了嗎\n報告委員其實部長常常跟我們講沒有最好只有更好所以我們這個基本上一定這個部分一定是要來持續精進讓同仁有一個最有尊嚴而且最好的一個整個工作環境其實委員也知道就是說其實在疫情期間還有我們衛福部其實擔負國家很重要的這個責任同仁真的非常辛苦然後還有我們社工長照這個部分但是即使是這樣\n﹗\n在衛環委員會這三個部會不論是衛福部、勞動部或環保署\n環境部這三個部會其實我就以這一個預算審查的會期來講其實勞動部跟環境部兩個加起來的預算的提案都沒有衛福部一個部多\n所以確實衛福部的這個案子真的非常的吃重而且我們所有的工作同仁確實真的這個工作量也非常大尤其是在預算會期你還要去委員所有的提案你還要一案一案去跟委員去做這個溝通確實真的是案件量也多然後溝通確實有時候\n響鐘\n之前我們這個辦公室的一個同仁他有到這個衛福部本部去辦理那個醫事人員的證書結果在一樓的這個辦理的窗口辦理文件的時候這個服務人員你們衛福部的服務人員一方面要接電話就是接用那個耳麥接電話一方面又要服務來的這個民眾確實這個工作量真的非常的大那我想請教就是說如果人力不足的話\n你們有什麼樣的方式可以來補充至少不要讓我們這些公務人員或者是這些衛福部所有的公務人員有的是醫師有的可能就是都是高考及格進來的那你總是要讓他們有一個好的一個工作環境吧\n我們一直在講就是說這個要讓勞工有一個好的工作環境那即使公務人員你要讓他有一個好的工作環境而不是讓他過勞所以我想請教部長就是說未來我們要怎麼樣去讓我們的這個衛福部裡面的這個工作能夠更有效率然後分工能夠更明確那另外就是說委員會的這個委員所有的提案其實你們衛福部這個預算的這個提案\n您們的案子真的比這兩個部會加起來還多。確實真的非常辛苦,趙委。是啊,很辛苦。所以我跟他說趙委,那個蘇趙委真的也要幫點忙。尤其剩下幾天的時間,真的要讓這些公務人員一方面能夠順利的去溝通,然後讓這個案子能夠順利,那另外一方面真的也不要讓他們過勞。那我想請教部長,您未來要怎麼做?\n我想我們為了國家的發展、人民的健康相關的部門特別是衛福部真的是叫日以繼夜我想所有的人除了在上班的時候腦筋響著都是怎麼樣把他的工作做得正有品質\n人性一個求好一個也是一個求好的人性當然我們一直呼籲我們要有一個上班的時候就上班下班的時候就好好放鬆去做健康的工作跟家人相聚這是一個理想的狀況但是工作的量份量如果超過他上班時間能做的或者是在效率上我們是還有精進的空間的話這個部分的確會讓\n因為我也算公務機關做了幾十年從臺大醫院還有都是差不多在公務機關其實真的工作同仁都非常的辛苦壓力都非常的大所以我們真的要互相體諒互相支持然後用那領導者就必須要用更有效率讓大家更快樂的\n的一個方式來帶領那面對外面的壓力有時候主管者也要去承擔不要把壓力承到基層的太多到基層的一個同仁所以是身為主管也必須要去承擔的\n一個責任,當然主管也不要垮掉。人力不足的部分,其實我覺得應該要去爭取。我們一直不管是預算或者人力,這個都是隨著工作的量以及我們對人民的照顧求好的當中,真的自然就會增加。這個部分真的也是大家需要體諒跟幫忙。\n這樣才能夠讓我們的公務人員真的過得有尊嚴、快樂然後大家共同來改變一個更好的文化也因為最近的一些事故讓我們的臺灣職場更好不管是勞動或者是公務能夠更好這就是我們這麼辛苦、這麼痛苦之下希望為臺灣能夠還貢獻這個部分\n我結尾一下,你這樣一直要說我下來。沒有,我當然就是中心的這個請因為預算會期總是這個需要跟所有的委員溝通只是我看到就是說那個衛福部的相關的這個預算提案這麼多這個這麼多確實\n響鐘響鐘\n其實勞工的這個工作環境其實公務人員的這個工作環境也要去重視而不是其實很多公務人員他即使假日加班或晚上加班他也不敢報加班費他就是責任制他就把工作做完那有時候工作做完可能就都三更半夜有時候早上就出門了所以我覺得說我們大家互相體諒那尤其是在這個會期真的我也在這邊誠心的拜託這個召委\n我回應一下謝謝我想我在醫療這麼久\n最聽到的可能會比較辛苦的都是衛福部聽說以前這幾天衛生署、衛福部其實都是到晚上都還是燈光開著真的一直都是很辛苦我相信能夠在衛福部工作這麼久真的是在這邊令人敬佩因為我才剛到沒多久我可以感謝過去大家的努力當然未來我們希望\n謝謝黃秀芳\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.049 --> 00:00.229\n黃秀芳,召委、質詢。\n\n00:18.220 --> 00:46.691\n部長好,部長辛苦了。部長就今天的這個討論我是來希望就是說我們那個衛福部裡面的這個有關霸凌的這個案件那已經結果也有出來嘛那我想請教就是說目前我們不論是行政院或者是我們衛福部這邊有一個霸凌的申訴就是申訴然後可能就是要求如果當事人的話可能就是要具名嘛\n\n00:47.331 --> 00:48.492\n國際社會福利及衛生福利部長列席報告\n\n01:16.262 --> 01:39.935\n登錄之後可能就有這個長官找你來談談話就像之前那個勞動部一樣長官也許次長就來談談話談談話完之後覺得這好像也不是霸凌所以這個很多看到的就是說這個長官誤談之後也許就會測案那這個霸凌率可能就變成零\n\n01:40.695 --> 02:05.308\n我今天要講的就是說其實這個會有一個困境就是說這個申訴管道普遍認為如果說是要具名的話可能讓這個當事人會覺得對於這個管道不是那麼的信任可能會覺得不信任那另外如果說不具名的檢舉的話又留為這個黑函就通常都是這樣嘛尤其是公務機關如果你沒有具名的話\n\n02:30.939 --> 02:55.898\n是不是可以請先部長先回答?經過這些檢討我們做了一些處理以後我們更重要的是怎麼樣創造一個更友善更沒有零霸凌的一個環境這是我們不管是從法規制度從文化的建立從教育方面我們一定會全力來努力那至於說那個\n\n02:57.299 --> 03:18.985\n另外就是不記名這個部分就行政院或者是我們也針對所有只要他不記名但是他有能夠講出他的一個事實的當事人以及具體的事證的話我們也會處理像這一次我們其實很多都是不記名在處理的\n\n03:20.689 --> 03:35.978\n那至於說在相關的一個衛福部怎麼樣來做常規的一個處理這個部分請理事長來幫忙回應一下因為理事長現在是負責的\n\n03:36.926 --> 03:56.979\nOK,非常非常感謝委員那個垂詢。誠如剛剛部長所說,我們整個這個相關的那個程序確實是在一個非常嚴格而且非常嚴謹的一個程序來進行。我再重複一次,第一個我們的外部委員高達四位。\n\n03:57.739 --> 03:57.779\n護理部長．\n\n04:24.002 --> 04:40.196\n其實我們只要就算是不具名但是你有具體指涉當事人以及具體的事證的話其實我們也受理其實我們這一次我們的調查就是根據這個原則所以讓我們的整個這一個收案的標準其實事實上是相對寬鬆的一個情況之下用比較寬鬆的標準來面對這一個事情\n\n04:49.504 --> 05:07.999\n其實我們發現有時候部門如果有受到這樣子的不合理的對待也許他們會覺得說我直接向媒體爆料也許會直接跟這個部會來申訴的這個效果更好\n\n05:08.659 --> 05:26.440\n我是覺得說未來這個管道就是說申訴的管道應該要更暢通那如果說以目前來講如果不合時宜的部分應該也要去做一個檢討所以那個次長你覺得說現在目前這樣的一個申訴的一個管道已經很暢通了嗎\n\n05:27.341 --> 05:54.558\n報告委員其實部長常常跟我們講沒有最好只有更好所以我們這個基本上一定這個部分一定是要來持續精進讓同仁有一個最有尊嚴而且最好的一個整個工作環境其實委員也知道就是說其實在疫情期間還有我們衛福部其實擔負國家很重要的這個責任同仁真的非常辛苦然後還有我們社工長照這個部分但是即使是這樣\n\n06:25.879 --> 06:27.200\n在衛環委員會這三個部會不論是衛福部、勞動部或環保署\n\n06:55.099 --> 06:59.685\n環境部這三個部會其實我就以這一個預算審查的會期來講其實勞動部跟環境部兩個加起來的預算的提案都沒有衛福部一個部多\n\n07:10.638 --> 07:30.786\n所以確實衛福部的這個案子真的非常的吃重而且我們所有的工作同仁確實真的這個工作量也非常大尤其是在預算會期你還要去委員所有的提案你還要一案一案去跟委員去做這個溝通確實真的是案件量也多然後溝通確實有時候\n\n07:48.152 --> 08:13.493\n之前我們這個辦公室的一個同仁他有到這個衛福部本部去辦理那個醫事人員的證書結果在一樓的這個辦理的窗口辦理文件的時候這個服務人員你們衛福部的服務人員一方面要接電話就是接用那個耳麥接電話一方面又要服務來的這個民眾確實這個工作量真的非常的大那我想請教就是說如果人力不足的話\n\n08:14.874 --> 08:31.392\n你們有什麼樣的方式可以來補充至少不要讓我們這些公務人員或者是這些衛福部所有的公務人員有的是醫師有的可能就是都是高考及格進來的那你總是要讓他們有一個好的一個工作環境吧\n\n08:32.533 --> 09:00.826\n我們一直在講就是說這個要讓勞工有一個好的工作環境那即使公務人員你要讓他有一個好的工作環境而不是讓他過勞所以我想請教部長就是說未來我們要怎麼樣去讓我們的這個衛福部裡面的這個工作能夠更有效率然後分工能夠更明確那另外就是說委員會的這個委員所有的提案其實你們衛福部這個預算的這個提案\n\n09:02.847 --> 09:28.419\n您們的案子真的比這兩個部會加起來還多。確實真的非常辛苦,趙委。是啊,很辛苦。所以我跟他說趙委,那個蘇趙委真的也要幫點忙。尤其剩下幾天的時間,真的要讓這些公務人員一方面能夠順利的去溝通,然後讓這個案子能夠順利,那另外一方面真的也不要讓他們過勞。那我想請教部長,您未來要怎麼做?\n\n09:29.693 --> 09:46.224\n我想我們為了國家的發展、人民的健康相關的部門特別是衛福部真的是叫日以繼夜我想所有的人除了在上班的時候腦筋響著都是怎麼樣把他的工作做得正有品質\n\n09:48.570 --> 10:16.081\n人性一個求好一個也是一個求好的人性當然我們一直呼籲我們要有一個上班的時候就上班下班的時候就好好放鬆去做健康的工作跟家人相聚這是一個理想的狀況但是工作的量份量如果超過他上班時間能做的或者是在效率上我們是還有精進的空間的話這個部分的確會讓\n\n10:17.898 --> 10:41.424\n因為我也算公務機關做了幾十年從臺大醫院還有都是差不多在公務機關其實真的工作同仁都非常的辛苦壓力都非常的大所以我們真的要互相體諒互相支持然後用那領導者就必須要用更有效率讓大家更快樂的\n\n10:42.464 --> 10:58.183\n的一個方式來帶領那面對外面的壓力有時候主管者也要去承擔不要把壓力承到基層的太多到基層的一個同仁所以是身為主管也必須要去承擔的\n\n10:59.364 --> 11:24.444\n一個責任,當然主管也不要垮掉。人力不足的部分,其實我覺得應該要去爭取。我們一直不管是預算或者人力,這個都是隨著工作的量以及我們對人民的照顧求好的當中,真的自然就會增加。這個部分真的也是大家需要體諒跟幫忙。\n\n11:25.705 --> 11:45.262\n這樣才能夠讓我們的公務人員真的過得有尊嚴、快樂然後大家共同來改變一個更好的文化也因為最近的一些事故讓我們的臺灣職場更好不管是勞動或者是公務能夠更好這就是我們這麼辛苦、這麼痛苦之下希望為臺灣能夠還貢獻這個部分\n\n11:49.691 --> 12:08.643\n我結尾一下,你這樣一直要說我下來。沒有,我當然就是中心的這個請因為預算會期總是這個需要跟所有的委員溝通只是我看到就是說那個衛福部的相關的這個預算提案這麼多這個這麼多確實\n\n12:34.696 --> 12:58.709\n其實勞工的這個工作環境其實公務人員的這個工作環境也要去重視而不是其實很多公務人員他即使假日加班或晚上加班他也不敢報加班費他就是責任制他就把工作做完那有時候工作做完可能就都三更半夜有時候早上就出門了所以我覺得說我們大家互相體諒那尤其是在這個會期真的我也在這邊誠心的拜託這個召委\n\n13:03.752 --> 13:04.153\n我回應一下謝謝我想我在醫療這麼久\n\n13:20.794 --> 13:47.291\n最聽到的可能會比較辛苦的都是衛福部聽說以前這幾天衛生署、衛福部其實都是到晚上都還是燈光開著真的一直都是很辛苦我相信能夠在衛福部工作這麼久真的是在這邊令人敬佩因為我才剛到沒多久我可以感謝過去大家的努力當然未來我們希望\n\n13:48.051 --> 13:48.212\n謝謝黃秀芳\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.049,"end":0.229,"text":"黃秀芳,召委、質詢。"},{"start":18.22,"end":46.691,"text":"部長好,部長辛苦了。部長就今天的這個討論我是來希望就是說我們那個衛福部裡面的這個有關霸凌的這個案件那已經結果也有出來嘛那我想請教就是說目前我們不論是行政院或者是我們衛福部這邊有一個霸凌的申訴就是申訴然後可能就是要求如果當事人的話可能就是要具名嘛"},{"start":47.331,"end":48.492,"text":"國際社會福利及衛生福利部長列席報告"},{"start":76.262,"end":99.935,"text":"登錄之後可能就有這個長官找你來談談話就像之前那個勞動部一樣長官也許次長就來談談話談談話完之後覺得這好像也不是霸凌所以這個很多看到的就是說這個長官誤談之後也許就會測案那這個霸凌率可能就變成零"},{"start":100.695,"end":125.308,"text":"我今天要講的就是說其實這個會有一個困境就是說這個申訴管道普遍認為如果說是要具名的話可能讓這個當事人會覺得對於這個管道不是那麼的信任可能會覺得不信任那另外如果說不具名的檢舉的話又留為這個黑函就通常都是這樣嘛尤其是公務機關如果你沒有具名的話"},{"start":126.288,"end":150.35,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":150.939,"end":175.898,"text":"是不是可以請先部長先回答?經過這些檢討我們做了一些處理以後我們更重要的是怎麼樣創造一個更友善更沒有零霸凌的一個環境這是我們不管是從法規制度從文化的建立從教育方面我們一定會全力來努力那至於說那個"},{"start":177.299,"end":198.985,"text":"另外就是不記名這個部分就行政院或者是我們也針對所有只要他不記名但是他有能夠講出他的一個事實的當事人以及具體的事證的話我們也會處理像這一次我們其實很多都是不記名在處理的"},{"start":200.689,"end":215.978,"text":"那至於說在相關的一個衛福部怎麼樣來做常規的一個處理這個部分請理事長來幫忙回應一下因為理事長現在是負責的"},{"start":216.926,"end":236.979,"text":"OK,非常非常感謝委員那個垂詢。誠如剛剛部長所說,我們整個這個相關的那個程序確實是在一個非常嚴格而且非常嚴謹的一個程序來進行。我再重複一次,第一個我們的外部委員高達四位。"},{"start":237.739,"end":237.779,"text":"護理部長．"},{"start":264.002,"end":280.196,"text":"其實我們只要就算是不具名但是你有具體指涉當事人以及具體的事證的話其實我們也受理其實我們這一次我們的調查就是根據這個原則所以讓我們的整個這一個收案的標準其實事實上是相對寬鬆的一個情況之下用比較寬鬆的標準來面對這一個事情"},{"start":289.504,"end":307.999,"text":"其實我們發現有時候部門如果有受到這樣子的不合理的對待也許他們會覺得說我直接向媒體爆料也許會直接跟這個部會來申訴的這個效果更好"},{"start":308.659,"end":326.44,"text":"我是覺得說未來這個管道就是說申訴的管道應該要更暢通那如果說以目前來講如果不合時宜的部分應該也要去做一個檢討所以那個次長你覺得說現在目前這樣的一個申訴的一個管道已經很暢通了嗎"},{"start":327.341,"end":354.558,"text":"報告委員其實部長常常跟我們講沒有最好只有更好所以我們這個基本上一定這個部分一定是要來持續精進讓同仁有一個最有尊嚴而且最好的一個整個工作環境其實委員也知道就是說其實在疫情期間還有我們衛福部其實擔負國家很重要的這個責任同仁真的非常辛苦然後還有我們社工長照這個部分但是即使是這樣"},{"start":355.879,"end":385.879,"text":"﹗"},{"start":385.879,"end":387.2,"text":"在衛環委員會這三個部會不論是衛福部、勞動部或環保署"},{"start":415.099,"end":419.685,"text":"環境部這三個部會其實我就以這一個預算審查的會期來講其實勞動部跟環境部兩個加起來的預算的提案都沒有衛福部一個部多"},{"start":430.638,"end":450.786,"text":"所以確實衛福部的這個案子真的非常的吃重而且我們所有的工作同仁確實真的這個工作量也非常大尤其是在預算會期你還要去委員所有的提案你還要一案一案去跟委員去做這個溝通確實真的是案件量也多然後溝通確實有時候"},{"start":452.927,"end":468.012,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":468.152,"end":493.493,"text":"之前我們這個辦公室的一個同仁他有到這個衛福部本部去辦理那個醫事人員的證書結果在一樓的這個辦理的窗口辦理文件的時候這個服務人員你們衛福部的服務人員一方面要接電話就是接用那個耳麥接電話一方面又要服務來的這個民眾確實這個工作量真的非常的大那我想請教就是說如果人力不足的話"},{"start":494.874,"end":511.392,"text":"你們有什麼樣的方式可以來補充至少不要讓我們這些公務人員或者是這些衛福部所有的公務人員有的是醫師有的可能就是都是高考及格進來的那你總是要讓他們有一個好的一個工作環境吧"},{"start":512.533,"end":540.826,"text":"我們一直在講就是說這個要讓勞工有一個好的工作環境那即使公務人員你要讓他有一個好的工作環境而不是讓他過勞所以我想請教部長就是說未來我們要怎麼樣去讓我們的這個衛福部裡面的這個工作能夠更有效率然後分工能夠更明確那另外就是說委員會的這個委員所有的提案其實你們衛福部這個預算的這個提案"},{"start":542.847,"end":568.419,"text":"您們的案子真的比這兩個部會加起來還多。確實真的非常辛苦,趙委。是啊,很辛苦。所以我跟他說趙委,那個蘇趙委真的也要幫點忙。尤其剩下幾天的時間,真的要讓這些公務人員一方面能夠順利的去溝通,然後讓這個案子能夠順利,那另外一方面真的也不要讓他們過勞。那我想請教部長,您未來要怎麼做?"},{"start":569.693,"end":586.224,"text":"我想我們為了國家的發展、人民的健康相關的部門特別是衛福部真的是叫日以繼夜我想所有的人除了在上班的時候腦筋響著都是怎麼樣把他的工作做得正有品質"},{"start":588.57,"end":616.081,"text":"人性一個求好一個也是一個求好的人性當然我們一直呼籲我們要有一個上班的時候就上班下班的時候就好好放鬆去做健康的工作跟家人相聚這是一個理想的狀況但是工作的量份量如果超過他上班時間能做的或者是在效率上我們是還有精進的空間的話這個部分的確會讓"},{"start":617.898,"end":641.424,"text":"因為我也算公務機關做了幾十年從臺大醫院還有都是差不多在公務機關其實真的工作同仁都非常的辛苦壓力都非常的大所以我們真的要互相體諒互相支持然後用那領導者就必須要用更有效率讓大家更快樂的"},{"start":642.464,"end":658.183,"text":"的一個方式來帶領那面對外面的壓力有時候主管者也要去承擔不要把壓力承到基層的太多到基層的一個同仁所以是身為主管也必須要去承擔的"},{"start":659.364,"end":684.444,"text":"一個責任,當然主管也不要垮掉。人力不足的部分,其實我覺得應該要去爭取。我們一直不管是預算或者人力,這個都是隨著工作的量以及我們對人民的照顧求好的當中,真的自然就會增加。這個部分真的也是大家需要體諒跟幫忙。"},{"start":685.705,"end":705.262,"text":"這樣才能夠讓我們的公務人員真的過得有尊嚴、快樂然後大家共同來改變一個更好的文化也因為最近的一些事故讓我們的臺灣職場更好不管是勞動或者是公務能夠更好這就是我們這麼辛苦、這麼痛苦之下希望為臺灣能夠還貢獻這個部分"},{"start":709.691,"end":728.643,"text":"我結尾一下,你這樣一直要說我下來。沒有,我當然就是中心的這個請因為預算會期總是這個需要跟所有的委員溝通只是我看到就是說那個衛福部的相關的這個預算提案這麼多這個這麼多確實"},{"start":731.305,"end":754.616,"text":"響鐘響鐘"},{"start":754.696,"end":778.709,"text":"其實勞工的這個工作環境其實公務人員的這個工作環境也要去重視而不是其實很多公務人員他即使假日加班或晚上加班他也不敢報加班費他就是責任制他就把工作做完那有時候工作做完可能就都三更半夜有時候早上就出門了所以我覺得說我們大家互相體諒那尤其是在這個會期真的我也在這邊誠心的拜託這個召委"},{"start":783.752,"end":784.153,"text":"我回應一下謝謝我想我在醫療這麼久"},{"start":800.794,"end":827.291,"text":"最聽到的可能會比較辛苦的都是衛福部聽說以前這幾天衛生署、衛福部其實都是到晚上都還是燈光開著真的一直都是很辛苦我相信能夠在衛福部工作這麼久真的是在這邊令人敬佩因為我才剛到沒多久我可以感謝過去大家的努力當然未來我們希望"},{"start":828.051,"end":828.212,"text":"謝謝黃秀芳"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1408,"blocks":[["黃委員秀芳：（11時44分）謝謝主席，我們請部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["邱部長泰源：召委好。"],["黃委員秀芳：部長好，部長辛苦了。部長，就今天的這個討論，我們衛福部裡面有關霸凌的這個案件，結果已經出來了，我想請教目前不論是行政院或者是衛福部這邊，有一個霸凌的申訴……"],["邱部長泰源：平台。"],["黃委員秀芳：就是申訴，然後可能就是要求當事人要具名提出，我覺得如果說以事實的話，當事人具名其實也是壓力非常的大，就是說當事人受到主管的霸凌或其他人的霸凌，如果以他來具名的話，那個壓力之大，我覺得部長應該也可以想見。","再來就是說，如果他去登錄，就是說有這個霸凌的去登錄，登錄之後可能就有長官找你來談談話，就像之前勞動部一樣，也許次長就來談談話，談談話之後覺得這好像也不是霸凌，所以很多是長官晤談之後也許就會撤案，那這個霸凌率可能就變成零。我今天要講的就是，其實這個會有一個困境，就是說這個申訴管道普遍認為，如果是要具名的話，可能會讓這個當事人覺得對於這個管道不是那麼的信任，可能會覺得不信任。另外，如果說不具名檢舉的話又流為黑函，通常都是這樣，尤其是公務機關，如果你沒有具名的話，可能就會被列為黑函。那如果具名的話，他的壓力又非常大。我想請教，在衛福部裡面怎麼樣讓你的基層員工可以信任，然後又可以落實查察，就是要杜絕霸凌的這種情況再發生，是不是可以請部長先回答？"],["邱部長泰源：我想經過這些檢討，我們也做了一些處理，以後我們更重要的是怎麼樣創造一個更友善，零霸凌的環境。不管是從法規制度，從文化的建立，從教育方面，我們一定會全力來努力。","另外，具名、不具名這個部分，就行政院或者是衛福部，我們也針對所有的不具名，但是他能夠講出當事人以及具體事證的話，我們也會處理，像這次我們其實很多都是不具名在處理。至於說在衛福部怎麼樣來做常規的處理，這個部分請呂次長來幫忙回應一下，因為現在是由呂次長負責的。"],["呂次長建德：非常非常感謝委員垂詢，誠如剛剛部長所說，我們整個相關的程序，確實是以非常嚴格，而且非常嚴謹的程序來進行。我再重複一次，第一個我們的外部委員高達4位，其實大概cover這一個領域裡面，都是非常非常學有專精的專家學者，所以他們對於相關的問題都已經非常有經驗。第二個是我們在這個部分，其實有進行高達96位同仁的相關調查程序，所以有相關的部分我們都在做。","至於剛剛委員特別提到有關具名、不具名，其實你就算是不具名，但是你有具體指涉當事人以及具體的事證，我們也受理。我們這一次的調查就是根據這個原則，所以讓我們的整個收案的標準，事實上是在相對寬鬆的情況之下，用比較寬鬆的標準來面對這個事情。"],["黃委員秀芳：其實我們發現有時候部門如果受到這樣子的不合理對待，也許他們會覺得直接向媒體爆料會比直接跟部會申訴的效果更好，我覺得未來這個申訴的管道應該要更暢通。"],["呂次長建德：當然。"],["黃委員秀芳：以目前來講，不合時宜的部分應該也要做一個檢討，所以次長覺得目前這樣的申訴管道已經很暢通了嗎？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，其實部長常常跟我們講，沒有最好、只有更好，所以我們這個部分一定是要持續精進，讓同仁有一個最有尊嚴，而且最好的工作環境。其實委員也知道，在疫情期間衛福部擔負國家很重要的責任，同仁真的非常辛苦，還有我們社工、長照的部分，但是即使是這樣，部長常常跟我們講，我們就是要利用這個機會，大家好好的來提供給同仁一個最安心的職場環境。","另外我也補充一下，剛剛委員有提到即使是不具名，但是有具體事證，所以我們這次也這樣處理，不過也必須讓這個同仁在受訪的時候有比較多的數據，達到一個數據的時候，我們才用這個去訪問這個行為人，讓他們有一個交叉比對。其實調查小組也是用交叉比對的結果，來做成成立與否的根據，所以我們確實都是有所本的，有一個相關證據來做出勿縱也勿枉的結論，謝謝。"],["黃委員秀芳：其實在衛環委員會這三個部會，不論是衛福部、勞動部或環境部，這三個部會就以這一個預算審查的會期來講，勞動部跟環境部兩個加起來的預算提案都沒有衛福部一個部多，所以確實衛福部的這個案子，真的非常的吃重，而且所有的工作同仁確實工作量也非常大。尤其是在預算會期，你還要就委員所有的提案一案一案去跟委員溝通，案件量確實真的多，溝通也確實有時候要花很多時間，所以我也覺得在衛福部工作的這些公務人員確實真的非常非常的辛苦！我想請教部長的是案件量這麼多、工作量這麼大，之前我們辦公室的一個同仁到衛福部本部去辦理醫事人員證書，在一樓的窗口辦理文件時，看到你們衛福部的服務人員一方面要用耳麥接電話，一方面又要服務來到窗口的民眾，工作量確實非常的大。我想請教，如果人力不足的話，你們有什麼樣的方式可以來補充？至少不要讓衛福部的這些公務人員，有的是醫師，有的可能都是高考及格進來的，你總是要讓他們有一個好的工作環境吧！我們一直在講要讓勞工有一個好的工作環境，那即使是公務人員，你也要讓他有一個好的工作環境而不是讓他過勞，所以我想請教部長，未來要怎麼樣去讓我們衛福部裡面的工作能夠更有效率、分工能夠更明確？另外就是委員會中委員的所有提案，其實你們衛福部的預算提案真的比這兩個部會加起來還多，確實真的非常辛苦啦！非常辛苦！所以我覺得蘇召委真的也要幫點忙，尤其是只剩下幾天的時間了，真的要讓這些公務人員一方面能夠順利的去溝通，讓這些案子能夠順利，另外一方面真的也不要讓他們過勞啦！我想請教部長，你未來要怎麼做？"],["邱部長泰源：我想我們為了國家的發展、人民的健康，相關的部門特別是衛福部真的可說是日以繼夜，所有的人在上班的時候腦筋裡想的都是怎麼樣把他的工作做得有品質，這也是人性啦！也是一個求好的人性。當然我們一直呼籲上班的時候就上班，下班的時候就好好放鬆，去做健康的活動、跟家人相聚，這是一個理想的狀況，但是工作的份量如果超過他上班時間能做的，或者是在效率上我們還有精進的空間的話，這個部分的確會讓……因為我也算在公務機關做了幾十年，從臺大醫院還有其他地方都差不多是在公務機關，其實工作同仁真的都非常辛苦，壓力也非常大，所以我們真的要互相體諒，互相支持，領導者就必須要用更有效率、讓大家更快樂的方式來帶領，面對外面的壓力，有時候主管者也要去承擔，不要把太多壓力給到基層同仁身上，這也是身為主管必須要去承擔的責任，當然主管也不要垮掉。"],["黃委員秀芳：人力不足的部分我覺得應該也要去爭取。"],["邱部長泰源：人力不足的部分，其實不管是預算或者人力，都是隨著工作量以及我們對人民照顧求好之心自然就會增加，這個部分真的也是大家需要體諒跟幫忙的，這樣才能夠讓我們的公務人員真的過得有尊嚴、快樂，然後大家共同來改變，建立一個更好的文化，也因為最近的一些事故，讓我們臺灣的職場更好，不管是勞動或者是公務能夠更好，這就是我們這麼辛苦、這麼痛苦之下，希望能為臺灣貢獻的。"],["黃委員秀芳：我做個結尾，因為預算會期總是需要跟所有的委員溝通，只是我看到衛福部預算的相關提案這麼多，確實讓衛福部這些主管疲於奔命，還要去溝通，所以我覺得一方面人力不足的部分可能要再去補充，一方面就是要考量工作分配，再一方面可能也要請我們所有的委員體恤，不只是勞工的工作環境，其實公務人員的工作環境也要去重視，其實很多公務人員即使假日加班或晚上加班也不敢報加班費，他就是責任制，就是要把工作做完，有時候工作做完可能都已經三更半夜，然後一大早就又出門了。所以我覺得我們大家要互相體諒，尤其是在這個會期，真的我也在這邊誠心的拜託蘇召委，因為衛福部的提案真的非常、非常的多，對於基層的這些主管來講確實壓力非常的大，以上。"],["邱部長泰源：我回應一下，謝謝委員，我想我在醫療界這麼久，聽到可能會比較辛苦的都是衛福部，聽說這幾天衛福部到晚上都還是燈光開著，真的一直都是很辛苦，我相信能夠在衛福部工作這麼久的人，真的是令人敬佩。因為我才剛到任沒多久，我在此感謝過去大家的努力，未來我們希望不管是主管或基層員工都能夠有尊嚴又快樂的工作環境。"],["黃委員秀芳：當然也要塑造一個好的工作環境，而不是在一個……"],["邱部長泰源：有快樂的公務人員就會有健康的人民。"],["黃委員秀芳：對啦！謝謝！"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃秀芳召委，謝謝部長。","何欣純、何欣純、何欣純委員不在。","再來請廖偉翔委員質詢。","我們下個禮拜三、禮拜四審衛福部的預算，就是25號和26號，大家準備好。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":284,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-14","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","劉建國","陳菁徽","林淑芬","王正旭","羅廷瑋","黃秀芳","廖偉翔","王育敏","陳瑩","黃國昌","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","盧縣一","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","楊曜","邱鎮軍","涂權吉"],"page_start":143,"meetingDate":["2024-12-16"],"gazette_id":"1140602","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140602_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請衛生福利部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請衛生福利部部長、考試院、行\n政院人事行政總處針對「所屬機關有關霸凌事件之調查檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1140602_00002"}}}