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\"論\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 800.114, \"end\": 800.575, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 800.575, \"end\": 800.675, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 800.675, \"end\": 800.775, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 800.775, \"end\": 800.795, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,632 --> 00:00:12,652\n法定人數不足\n\n2\n00:00:23,050 --> 00:00:43,671\n部長好,那個我想要先請教一下,因為10月9號的時候也有跟部長拜託說因為那個文件站跟那個巷弄長照站的照服員已經五年沒有調新了這個問題,那希望說明年可以一起調整。那當時部長也說會好好瞭解跟規劃,那我要請教一下這個長照司了,因為我\n\n3\n00:00:49,693 --> 00:00:57,145\n副市長．因為今年加薪4%那明年加薪3%那衛福部有沒有跟你們說說你\n\n4\n00:01:24,093 --> 00:01:42,344\n我先報告委員,真的很敬佩委員為這個文件展大家的權益來爭取。那這個部分的確我們在指示之下我們都有在詳細的演繹。那這個演繹當中因為牽涉的有一些範圍。是不是我請長掃師跟委員報告。\n\n5\n00:01:45,491 --> 00:01:52,758\n加薪就是你原來的業務量然後增加了薪水叫加薪嗎?那你如果增加了業務量然後還要增加績效的話那叫什麼?這算加薪嗎?有沒有這樣的附帶條件?\n\n6\n00:02:13,052 --> 00:02:32,386\n或者你們現在不清楚因為我有聽到這樣的消息了解這個狀況我們會做整體的評估我知道你們要做整體評估但是我講的我們對於加薪的定義我想我們先在這裡釐清嘛有必須要增加業務量才可以加薪嗎如果說本來就是整體\n\n7\n00:02:35,868 --> 00:02:51,018\n增加業務量當然是理論上是應該要加薪那如果說大家都一定有一個制度是一定隨著物價所以怎麼樣再上場的話我想這個也應該都要考慮在內這樣子\n\n8\n00:02:52,827 --> 00:03:16,353\n好,那個我就做這個提醒,因為這種附帶條件很奇怪,因為我們這次的加薪是整體的。好,謝謝那那個常総司請回。那另外我想我們來看一個這個表啦,因為最近大家在討論這個霸凌調查的這個部分,既有深度又有廣度。那雖然我們不知道是部長是誰給你這樣子的一個深度跟廣度的標準,但是我們看一下,\n\n9\n00:03:17,493 --> 00:03:44,025\n這個表因為這也是目前你們公布然後我們大家看到這個表我這樣放眼過去我唯一我沒有辦法理解就是說這個社工司檢認視察職場霸凌成立記過一次長照司司長不成立但他也記過一次一個成立一個不成立但是都記過一次這個是我們會有很多的疑問跑出來嘛\n\n10\n00:03:49,150 --> 00:03:56,536\n報告委員現在目前這個部分主要有兩個部分一個就是成立跟不成立\n\n11\n00:03:57,821 --> 00:04:19,246\n另外一個就是說有關情節輕重。你成立,你成立的話就要符合這一個所謂一般我們有關於霸凌的一個相關的定義。人總有給我們一個,還有其實最主要我們參考那個各個法院的判例。判例裡面大概有三個最主要要件。第一個就是說你在職場當中用詮釋的這個方式發生在職場上面。\n\n12\n00:04:50,286 --> 00:05:04,838\n長江市市長等這些雖然說他沒有到那個霸凌那個程度但是我們認定他這裡面是有管理事項我是建議你們這樣子好不好因為你們給資料其實我們也沒有很完整資料就看到這個表嘛\n\n13\n00:05:05,778 --> 00:05:27,910\n你這個表其實會讓我們有很多的質疑你這個表沒有寫好你又不講清楚懲處是什麼懲處所以就變成你們衛福部的調查就沒有公信力啊那衛福部調查衛福部就等於部長沒有公信力嗎所以我只是說你們這個表讓我們非常的疑惑那如果既然是那個你就把它寫清楚你那個表設計是不良的\n\n14\n00:05:28,851 --> 00:05:37,757\n好,我們有詳細的調查報告那氣勢沒話以後就要到委員的辦公室親自跟委員報告我們時間有限吼那個我我來\n\n15\n00:05:39,984 --> 00:06:07,356\n對我來直接我們就進入這個加熱菸的議題好了好那個2024年12月16日中午12點左右也就是今天我的助理呢負責這個加熱菸議題的助理呢從台北火車站回到正在回到我們立法院的路上這個好巧不巧呢我們就遇到了這個我們的假署長號\n\n16\n00:06:09,497 --> 00:06:19,990\n我想要請問因為他遇到那個角署長的時候角署長在路上跟我的助理這樣講我很早就想在路上遇到你了\n\n17\n00:06:21,192 --> 00:06:37,730\n他有面帶微笑但是這話聽起來很恐怖欸你們要找助理請問各位在找助理你們想要找美國委員的助理你們會在路上立法院以外的路上說我很早就想遇到你了嗎很想在路上遇到你了嗎你們會嗎會的舉手\n\n18\n00:06:39,946 --> 00:06:40,407\n哇這話聽起來不寒而栗欸\n\n19\n00:07:01,088 --> 00:07:23,924\n還是...我不知道啊是平常哪位你們...你們哪位政務官或事務官會遇到助理都會在路上這樣子講還是...還是還是他比較希望看到我的時候這句話是想對我講的我很早就想在路上遇到委員了等一下請吳署長去問他一下\n\n20\n00:07:25,697 --> 00:07:40,113\n我再請教一下那個正牌的吳署長,你覺得這句話是什麼意思?我真的沒辦法讓他揣測他的想法,但是我絕對不會這樣做,而且我也覺得蠻恐怖的。\n\n21\n00:07:41,969 --> 00:08:07,787\n對嘛我是說一般正常的人都會覺得不寒而栗啊怎麼會這樣子問呢我只是想要告訴你們我這裡公開講我告訴你們我的加熱菸的這個質詢部分很精彩的部分都是我自己加上去的啊如果很想遇到我我們幾乎最近因為立法院很忙我也幾乎都在研究室再不然我就在委員會\n\n22\n00:08:09,070 --> 00:08:09,130\n稍後。\n\n23\n00:08:25,652 --> 00:08:25,772\n可能3億\n\n24\n00:09:05,208 --> 00:09:24,314\n雖然只是降了3億但是它就是有一個現象意思就是說我加熱煙即便被你們卡住遲遲沒有真正的開放即便修法通過它仍然沒有開放但是奇妙的是止煙的這個煙稅它還是降低的這代表什麼\n\n25\n00:09:25,540 --> 00:09:46,401\n就代表這個就是一個市場的需求他們就還是會去偷抽嘛我上次不是跟你比了嗎上看下看左看右看那個抓不到的百億的稅都在這裡啊所以你們卡那個是沒有意思的你們卡到了只是真的只是政府的稅收你們再怎麼卡都不會增加那個只淹淹稅的稅收啦\n\n26\n00:09:49,343 --> 00:09:51,845\n我覺得每一個議題都是真的議題\n\n27\n00:10:13,581 --> 00:10:17,664\n我每次上來講到加熱因我都點出重要的數據上次是那個百億齁那這一次我點出百分之1.6淹稅下降\n\n28\n00:10:42,025 --> 00:11:06,650\n加熱煙沒有開放但煙稅、紫煙煙稅是下降的這個數據給你們參考它背後的意義表示什麼那就是說現在就是說因為我還想請教就是說煙害這個煙害防治的工作到底是國民健康署的工作還是這個煙害防治基金的這個工作還是它是這個煙害防治策進會的業務因為\n\n29\n00:11:09,844 --> 00:11:37,607\n因為主要是這樣子齁我想要釐清一下這個菸害防治策進會是不是國民健康署的這個上司是嗎是還是不是我想菸害防治法在國民健康署是主責單位那部裡面有一個策進會只是針對說我們就是說我們整個菸害防治的時候有一個報告那部長是個召集人\n\n30\n00:11:38,874 --> 00:12:05,910\n對啦,但是他就是你們的那個整個...應該也不是啦,我是住建議書啦不是嘛,不是你的上司嘛雖然部長是,但是這個測競會不是嘛那所以根據這衛福部你們的這個淹害防治測競會設置要點召集人當然由部長兼任執行長一人是由次長兼任那這個會的這個工作小組就是由國民健康署署長你擔任召集人嘛對不對\n\n31\n00:12:06,590 --> 00:12:29,319\n所以這個測淨會就是國建署的長官那也就是淹害基金會的頂頭上司那現在要審預算那本席就想了解一下就是說有關於這個淹害這個淹害防治測淨會每年有多少預算可以使用那既然你們說都有這個設立工作小組負責推動淹害防治相關工作那就表示說這個單位應該有這個預算來執行相關的工作\n\n32\n00:12:34,261 --> 00:12:44,268\n你們明確說這個單位每年有多少預算,然後錢從哪裡來?你們可以講一下嗎?委員指的是測進會這個單位是吧?它就是一個臨時的組織的一個會議而已。\n\n33\n00:12:50,643 --> 00:13:11,177\n臨時編制的一個會議而已臨時編制的會議那因為這個策經會113年度的會議資料這個單位的經費好像是你們應該是來自這個菸品健康福利捐嘛是來自於這個菸害防治基金啊他沒有特別的預算編耶都沒有對但是他的我是從你們113年度的會議資料那邊看來的喔你們要經費這個菸品的這個健康福利捐\n\n34\n00:13:19,653 --> 00:13:20,795\n會在這個諮詢會裡面做討論報告會在這裡做討論報告\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11632\t12652\t法定人數不足\n23050\t43671\t部長好,那個我想要先請教一下,因為10月9號的時候也有跟部長拜託說因為那個文件站跟那個巷弄長照站的照服員已經五年沒有調新了這個問題,那希望說明年可以一起調整。那當時部長也說會好好瞭解跟規劃,那我要請教一下這個長照司了,因為我\n49693\t57145\t副市長．因為今年加薪4%那明年加薪3%那衛福部有沒有跟你們說說你\n59121\t82346\t﹚陳瑩\n84093\t102344\t我先報告委員,真的很敬佩委員為這個文件展大家的權益來爭取。那這個部分的確我們在指示之下我們都有在詳細的演繹。那這個演繹當中因為牽涉的有一些範圍。是不是我請長掃師跟委員報告。\n105491\t112758\t加薪就是你原來的業務量然後增加了薪水叫加薪嗎?那你如果增加了業務量然後還要增加績效的話那叫什麼?這算加薪嗎?有沒有這樣的附帶條件?\n133052\t152386\t或者你們現在不清楚因為我有聽到這樣的消息了解這個狀況我們會做整體的評估我知道你們要做整體評估但是我講的我們對於加薪的定義我想我們先在這裡釐清嘛有必須要增加業務量才可以加薪嗎如果說本來就是整體\n155868\t171018\t增加業務量當然是理論上是應該要加薪那如果說大家都一定有一個制度是一定隨著物價所以怎麼樣再上場的話我想這個也應該都要考慮在內這樣子\n172827\t196353\t好,那個我就做這個提醒,因為這種附帶條件很奇怪,因為我們這次的加薪是整體的。好,謝謝那那個常総司請回。那另外我想我們來看一個這個表啦,因為最近大家在討論這個霸凌調查的這個部分,既有深度又有廣度。那雖然我們不知道是部長是誰給你這樣子的一個深度跟廣度的標準,但是我們看一下,\n197493\t224025\t這個表因為這也是目前你們公布然後我們大家看到這個表我這樣放眼過去我唯一我沒有辦法理解就是說這個社工司檢認視察職場霸凌成立記過一次長照司司長不成立但他也記過一次一個成立一個不成立但是都記過一次這個是我們會有很多的疑問跑出來嘛\n229150\t236536\t報告委員現在目前這個部分主要有兩個部分一個就是成立跟不成立\n237821\t259246\t另外一個就是說有關情節輕重。你成立,你成立的話就要符合這一個所謂一般我們有關於霸凌的一個相關的定義。人總有給我們一個,還有其實最主要我們參考那個各個法院的判例。判例裡面大概有三個最主要要件。第一個就是說你在職場當中用詮釋的這個方式發生在職場上面。\n259906\t289906\t﹏﹏\n290286\t304838\t長江市市長等這些雖然說他沒有到那個霸凌那個程度但是我們認定他這裡面是有管理事項我是建議你們這樣子好不好因為你們給資料其實我們也沒有很完整資料就看到這個表嘛\n305778\t327910\t你這個表其實會讓我們有很多的質疑你這個表沒有寫好你又不講清楚懲處是什麼懲處所以就變成你們衛福部的調查就沒有公信力啊那衛福部調查衛福部就等於部長沒有公信力嗎所以我只是說你們這個表讓我們非常的疑惑那如果既然是那個你就把它寫清楚你那個表設計是不良的\n328851\t337757\t好,我們有詳細的調查報告那氣勢沒話以後就要到委員的辦公室親自跟委員報告我們時間有限吼那個我我來\n339984\t367356\t對我來直接我們就進入這個加熱菸的議題好了好那個2024年12月16日中午12點左右也就是今天我的助理呢負責這個加熱菸議題的助理呢從台北火車站回到正在回到我們立法院的路上這個好巧不巧呢我們就遇到了這個我們的假署長號\n369497\t379990\t我想要請問因為他遇到那個角署長的時候角署長在路上跟我的助理這樣講我很早就想在路上遇到你了\n381192\t397730\t他有面帶微笑但是這話聽起來很恐怖欸你們要找助理請問各位在找助理你們想要找美國委員的助理你們會在路上立法院以外的路上說我很早就想遇到你了嗎很想在路上遇到你了嗎你們會嗎會的舉手\n399946\t400407\t哇 這話聽起來不寒而栗欸\n421088\t443924\t還是...我不知道啊是平常哪位你們...你們哪位政務官或事務官會遇到助理都會在路上這樣子講還是...還是還是他比較希望看到我的時候這句話是想對我講的我很早就想在路上遇到委員了等一下請吳署長去問他一下\n445697\t460113\t我再請教一下那個正牌的吳署長,你覺得這句話是什麼意思?我真的沒辦法讓他揣測他的想法,但是我絕對不會這樣做,而且我也覺得蠻恐怖的。\n461969\t487787\t對嘛我是說一般正常的人都會覺得不寒而栗啊怎麼會這樣子問呢我只是想要告訴你們我這裡公開講我告訴你們我的加熱菸的這個質詢部分很精彩的部分都是我自己加上去的啊如果很想遇到我我們幾乎最近因為立法院很忙我也幾乎都在研究室再不然我就在委員會\n489070\t489130\t稍後。\n505652\t505772\t可能3億\n545208\t564314\t雖然只是降了3億但是它就是有一個現象意思就是說我加熱煙即便被你們卡住遲遲沒有真正的開放即便修法通過它仍然沒有開放但是奇妙的是止煙的這個煙稅它還是降低的這代表什麼\n565540\t586401\t就代表這個就是一個市場的需求他們就還是會去偷抽嘛我上次不是跟你比了嗎上看下看左看右看那個抓不到的百億的稅都在這裡啊所以你們卡那個是沒有意思的你們卡到了只是真的只是政府的稅收你們再怎麼卡都不會增加那個只淹淹稅的稅收啦\n589343\t591845\t我覺得每一個議題都是真的議題\n613581\t617664\t我每次上來講到加熱因我都點出重要的數據上次是那個百億齁那這一次我點出百分之1.6淹稅下降\n642025\t666650\t加熱煙沒有開放但煙稅、紫煙煙稅是下降的這個數據給你們參考它背後的意義表示什麼那就是說現在就是說因為我還想請教就是說煙害這個煙害防治的工作到底是國民健康署的工作還是這個煙害防治基金的這個工作還是它是這個煙害防治策進會的業務因為\n669844\t697607\t因為主要是這樣子齁我想要釐清一下這個菸害防治策進會是不是國民健康署的這個上司是嗎是還是不是我想菸害防治法在國民健康署是主責單位那部裡面有一個策進會只是針對說我們就是說我們整個菸害防治的時候有一個報告那部長是個召集人\n698874\t725910\t對啦,但是他就是你們的那個整個...應該也不是啦,我是住建議書啦不是嘛,不是你的上司嘛雖然部長是,但是這個測競會不是嘛那所以根據這衛福部你們的這個淹害防治測競會設置要點召集人當然由部長兼任執行長一人是由次長兼任那這個會的這個工作小組就是由國民健康署署長你擔任召集人嘛對不對\n726590\t749319\t所以這個測淨會就是國建署的長官那也就是淹害基金會的頂頭上司那現在要審預算那本席就想了解一下就是說有關於這個淹害這個淹害防治測淨會每年有多少預算可以使用那既然你們說都有這個設立工作小組負責推動淹害防治相關工作那就表示說這個單位應該有這個預算來執行相關的工作\n754261\t764268\t你們明確說這個單位每年有多少預算,然後錢從哪裡來?你們可以講一下嗎?委員指的是測進會這個單位是吧?它就是一個臨時的組織的一個會議而已。\n770643\t791177\t臨時編制的一個會議而已臨時編制的會議那因為這個策經會113年度的會議資料這個單位的經費好像是你們應該是來自這個菸品健康福利捐嘛是來自於這個菸害防治基金啊他沒有特別的預算編耶都沒有對但是他的我是從你們113年度的會議資料那邊看來的喔你們要經費這個菸品的這個健康福利捐\n799653\t800795\t會在這個諮詢會裡面做討論報告會在這裡做討論報告\n811937\t839497\t陳瑩\n","txt":"法定人數不足\n部長好,那個我想要先請教一下,因為10月9號的時候也有跟部長拜託說因為那個文件站跟那個巷弄長照站的照服員已經五年沒有調新了這個問題,那希望說明年可以一起調整。那當時部長也說會好好瞭解跟規劃,那我要請教一下這個長照司了,因為我\n副市長．因為今年加薪4%那明年加薪3%那衛福部有沒有跟你們說說你\n﹚陳瑩\n我先報告委員,真的很敬佩委員為這個文件展大家的權益來爭取。那這個部分的確我們在指示之下我們都有在詳細的演繹。那這個演繹當中因為牽涉的有一些範圍。是不是我請長掃師跟委員報告。\n加薪就是你原來的業務量然後增加了薪水叫加薪嗎?那你如果增加了業務量然後還要增加績效的話那叫什麼?這算加薪嗎?有沒有這樣的附帶條件?\n或者你們現在不清楚因為我有聽到這樣的消息了解這個狀況我們會做整體的評估我知道你們要做整體評估但是我講的我們對於加薪的定義我想我們先在這裡釐清嘛有必須要增加業務量才可以加薪嗎如果說本來就是整體\n增加業務量當然是理論上是應該要加薪那如果說大家都一定有一個制度是一定隨著物價所以怎麼樣再上場的話我想這個也應該都要考慮在內這樣子\n好,那個我就做這個提醒,因為這種附帶條件很奇怪,因為我們這次的加薪是整體的。好,謝謝那那個常総司請回。那另外我想我們來看一個這個表啦,因為最近大家在討論這個霸凌調查的這個部分,既有深度又有廣度。那雖然我們不知道是部長是誰給你這樣子的一個深度跟廣度的標準,但是我們看一下,\n這個表因為這也是目前你們公布然後我們大家看到這個表我這樣放眼過去我唯一我沒有辦法理解就是說這個社工司檢認視察職場霸凌成立記過一次長照司司長不成立但他也記過一次一個成立一個不成立但是都記過一次這個是我們會有很多的疑問跑出來嘛\n報告委員現在目前這個部分主要有兩個部分一個就是成立跟不成立\n另外一個就是說有關情節輕重。你成立,你成立的話就要符合這一個所謂一般我們有關於霸凌的一個相關的定義。人總有給我們一個,還有其實最主要我們參考那個各個法院的判例。判例裡面大概有三個最主要要件。第一個就是說你在職場當中用詮釋的這個方式發生在職場上面。\n﹏﹏\n長江市市長等這些雖然說他沒有到那個霸凌那個程度但是我們認定他這裡面是有管理事項我是建議你們這樣子好不好因為你們給資料其實我們也沒有很完整資料就看到這個表嘛\n你這個表其實會讓我們有很多的質疑你這個表沒有寫好你又不講清楚懲處是什麼懲處所以就變成你們衛福部的調查就沒有公信力啊那衛福部調查衛福部就等於部長沒有公信力嗎所以我只是說你們這個表讓我們非常的疑惑那如果既然是那個你就把它寫清楚你那個表設計是不良的\n好,我們有詳細的調查報告那氣勢沒話以後就要到委員的辦公室親自跟委員報告我們時間有限吼那個我我來\n對我來直接我們就進入這個加熱菸的議題好了好那個2024年12月16日中午12點左右也就是今天我的助理呢負責這個加熱菸議題的助理呢從台北火車站回到正在回到我們立法院的路上這個好巧不巧呢我們就遇到了這個我們的假署長號\n我想要請問因為他遇到那個角署長的時候角署長在路上跟我的助理這樣講我很早就想在路上遇到你了\n他有面帶微笑但是這話聽起來很恐怖欸你們要找助理請問各位在找助理你們想要找美國委員的助理你們會在路上立法院以外的路上說我很早就想遇到你了嗎很想在路上遇到你了嗎你們會嗎會的舉手\n哇 這話聽起來不寒而栗欸\n還是...我不知道啊是平常哪位你們...你們哪位政務官或事務官會遇到助理都會在路上這樣子講還是...還是還是他比較希望看到我的時候這句話是想對我講的我很早就想在路上遇到委員了等一下請吳署長去問他一下\n我再請教一下那個正牌的吳署長,你覺得這句話是什麼意思?我真的沒辦法讓他揣測他的想法,但是我絕對不會這樣做,而且我也覺得蠻恐怖的。\n對嘛我是說一般正常的人都會覺得不寒而栗啊怎麼會這樣子問呢我只是想要告訴你們我這裡公開講我告訴你們我的加熱菸的這個質詢部分很精彩的部分都是我自己加上去的啊如果很想遇到我我們幾乎最近因為立法院很忙我也幾乎都在研究室再不然我就在委員會\n稍後。\n可能3億\n雖然只是降了3億但是它就是有一個現象意思就是說我加熱煙即便被你們卡住遲遲沒有真正的開放即便修法通過它仍然沒有開放但是奇妙的是止煙的這個煙稅它還是降低的這代表什麼\n就代表這個就是一個市場的需求他們就還是會去偷抽嘛我上次不是跟你比了嗎上看下看左看右看那個抓不到的百億的稅都在這裡啊所以你們卡那個是沒有意思的你們卡到了只是真的只是政府的稅收你們再怎麼卡都不會增加那個只淹淹稅的稅收啦\n我覺得每一個議題都是真的議題\n我每次上來講到加熱因我都點出重要的數據上次是那個百億齁那這一次我點出百分之1.6淹稅下降\n加熱煙沒有開放但煙稅、紫煙煙稅是下降的這個數據給你們參考它背後的意義表示什麼那就是說現在就是說因為我還想請教就是說煙害這個煙害防治的工作到底是國民健康署的工作還是這個煙害防治基金的這個工作還是它是這個煙害防治策進會的業務因為\n因為主要是這樣子齁我想要釐清一下這個菸害防治策進會是不是國民健康署的這個上司是嗎是還是不是我想菸害防治法在國民健康署是主責單位那部裡面有一個策進會只是針對說我們就是說我們整個菸害防治的時候有一個報告那部長是個召集人\n對啦,但是他就是你們的那個整個...應該也不是啦,我是住建議書啦不是嘛,不是你的上司嘛雖然部長是,但是這個測競會不是嘛那所以根據這衛福部你們的這個淹害防治測競會設置要點召集人當然由部長兼任執行長一人是由次長兼任那這個會的這個工作小組就是由國民健康署署長你擔任召集人嘛對不對\n所以這個測淨會就是國建署的長官那也就是淹害基金會的頂頭上司那現在要審預算那本席就想了解一下就是說有關於這個淹害這個淹害防治測淨會每年有多少預算可以使用那既然你們說都有這個設立工作小組負責推動淹害防治相關工作那就表示說這個單位應該有這個預算來執行相關的工作\n你們明確說這個單位每年有多少預算,然後錢從哪裡來?你們可以講一下嗎?委員指的是測進會這個單位是吧?它就是一個臨時的組織的一個會議而已。\n臨時編制的一個會議而已臨時編制的會議那因為這個策經會113年度的會議資料這個單位的經費好像是你們應該是來自這個菸品健康福利捐嘛是來自於這個菸害防治基金啊他沒有特別的預算編耶都沒有對但是他的我是從你們113年度的會議資料那邊看來的喔你們要經費這個菸品的這個健康福利捐\n會在這個諮詢會裡面做討論報告會在這裡做討論報告\n陳瑩\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.632 --> 00:12.652\n法定人數不足\n\n00:23.050 --> 00:43.671\n部長好,那個我想要先請教一下,因為10月9號的時候也有跟部長拜託說因為那個文件站跟那個巷弄長照站的照服員已經五年沒有調新了這個問題,那希望說明年可以一起調整。那當時部長也說會好好瞭解跟規劃,那我要請教一下這個長照司了,因為我\n\n00:49.693 --> 00:57.145\n副市長．因為今年加薪4%那明年加薪3%那衛福部有沒有跟你們說說你\n\n01:24.093 --> 01:42.344\n我先報告委員,真的很敬佩委員為這個文件展大家的權益來爭取。那這個部分的確我們在指示之下我們都有在詳細的演繹。那這個演繹當中因為牽涉的有一些範圍。是不是我請長掃師跟委員報告。\n\n01:45.491 --> 01:52.758\n加薪就是你原來的業務量然後增加了薪水叫加薪嗎?那你如果增加了業務量然後還要增加績效的話那叫什麼?這算加薪嗎?有沒有這樣的附帶條件?\n\n02:13.052 --> 02:32.386\n或者你們現在不清楚因為我有聽到這樣的消息了解這個狀況我們會做整體的評估我知道你們要做整體評估但是我講的我們對於加薪的定義我想我們先在這裡釐清嘛有必須要增加業務量才可以加薪嗎如果說本來就是整體\n\n02:35.868 --> 02:51.018\n增加業務量當然是理論上是應該要加薪那如果說大家都一定有一個制度是一定隨著物價所以怎麼樣再上場的話我想這個也應該都要考慮在內這樣子\n\n02:52.827 --> 03:16.353\n好,那個我就做這個提醒,因為這種附帶條件很奇怪,因為我們這次的加薪是整體的。好,謝謝那那個常総司請回。那另外我想我們來看一個這個表啦,因為最近大家在討論這個霸凌調查的這個部分,既有深度又有廣度。那雖然我們不知道是部長是誰給你這樣子的一個深度跟廣度的標準,但是我們看一下,\n\n03:17.493 --> 03:44.025\n這個表因為這也是目前你們公布然後我們大家看到這個表我這樣放眼過去我唯一我沒有辦法理解就是說這個社工司檢認視察職場霸凌成立記過一次長照司司長不成立但他也記過一次一個成立一個不成立但是都記過一次這個是我們會有很多的疑問跑出來嘛\n\n03:49.150 --> 03:56.536\n報告委員現在目前這個部分主要有兩個部分一個就是成立跟不成立\n\n03:57.821 --> 04:19.246\n另外一個就是說有關情節輕重。你成立,你成立的話就要符合這一個所謂一般我們有關於霸凌的一個相關的定義。人總有給我們一個,還有其實最主要我們參考那個各個法院的判例。判例裡面大概有三個最主要要件。第一個就是說你在職場當中用詮釋的這個方式發生在職場上面。\n\n04:50.286 --> 05:04.838\n長江市市長等這些雖然說他沒有到那個霸凌那個程度但是我們認定他這裡面是有管理事項我是建議你們這樣子好不好因為你們給資料其實我們也沒有很完整資料就看到這個表嘛\n\n05:05.778 --> 05:27.910\n你這個表其實會讓我們有很多的質疑你這個表沒有寫好你又不講清楚懲處是什麼懲處所以就變成你們衛福部的調查就沒有公信力啊那衛福部調查衛福部就等於部長沒有公信力嗎所以我只是說你們這個表讓我們非常的疑惑那如果既然是那個你就把它寫清楚你那個表設計是不良的\n\n05:28.851 --> 05:37.757\n好,我們有詳細的調查報告那氣勢沒話以後就要到委員的辦公室親自跟委員報告我們時間有限吼那個我我來\n\n05:39.984 --> 06:07.356\n對我來直接我們就進入這個加熱菸的議題好了好那個2024年12月16日中午12點左右也就是今天我的助理呢負責這個加熱菸議題的助理呢從台北火車站回到正在回到我們立法院的路上這個好巧不巧呢我們就遇到了這個我們的假署長號\n\n06:09.497 --> 06:19.990\n我想要請問因為他遇到那個角署長的時候角署長在路上跟我的助理這樣講我很早就想在路上遇到你了\n\n06:21.192 --> 06:37.730\n他有面帶微笑但是這話聽起來很恐怖欸你們要找助理請問各位在找助理你們想要找美國委員的助理你們會在路上立法院以外的路上說我很早就想遇到你了嗎很想在路上遇到你了嗎你們會嗎會的舉手\n\n06:39.946 --> 06:40.407\n哇這話聽起來不寒而栗欸\n\n07:01.088 --> 07:23.924\n還是...我不知道啊是平常哪位你們...你們哪位政務官或事務官會遇到助理都會在路上這樣子講還是...還是還是他比較希望看到我的時候這句話是想對我講的我很早就想在路上遇到委員了等一下請吳署長去問他一下\n\n07:25.697 --> 07:40.113\n我再請教一下那個正牌的吳署長,你覺得這句話是什麼意思?我真的沒辦法讓他揣測他的想法,但是我絕對不會這樣做,而且我也覺得蠻恐怖的。\n\n07:41.969 --> 08:07.787\n對嘛我是說一般正常的人都會覺得不寒而栗啊怎麼會這樣子問呢我只是想要告訴你們我這裡公開講我告訴你們我的加熱菸的這個質詢部分很精彩的部分都是我自己加上去的啊如果很想遇到我我們幾乎最近因為立法院很忙我也幾乎都在研究室再不然我就在委員會\n\n08:09.070 --> 08:09.130\n稍後。\n\n08:25.652 --> 08:25.772\n可能3億\n\n09:05.208 --> 09:24.314\n雖然只是降了3億但是它就是有一個現象意思就是說我加熱煙即便被你們卡住遲遲沒有真正的開放即便修法通過它仍然沒有開放但是奇妙的是止煙的這個煙稅它還是降低的這代表什麼\n\n09:25.540 --> 09:46.401\n就代表這個就是一個市場的需求他們就還是會去偷抽嘛我上次不是跟你比了嗎上看下看左看右看那個抓不到的百億的稅都在這裡啊所以你們卡那個是沒有意思的你們卡到了只是真的只是政府的稅收你們再怎麼卡都不會增加那個只淹淹稅的稅收啦\n\n09:49.343 --> 09:51.845\n我覺得每一個議題都是真的議題\n\n10:13.581 --> 10:17.664\n我每次上來講到加熱因我都點出重要的數據上次是那個百億齁那這一次我點出百分之1.6淹稅下降\n\n10:42.025 --> 11:06.650\n加熱煙沒有開放但煙稅、紫煙煙稅是下降的這個數據給你們參考它背後的意義表示什麼那就是說現在就是說因為我還想請教就是說煙害這個煙害防治的工作到底是國民健康署的工作還是這個煙害防治基金的這個工作還是它是這個煙害防治策進會的業務因為\n\n11:09.844 --> 11:37.607\n因為主要是這樣子齁我想要釐清一下這個菸害防治策進會是不是國民健康署的這個上司是嗎是還是不是我想菸害防治法在國民健康署是主責單位那部裡面有一個策進會只是針對說我們就是說我們整個菸害防治的時候有一個報告那部長是個召集人\n\n11:38.874 --> 12:05.910\n對啦,但是他就是你們的那個整個...應該也不是啦,我是住建議書啦不是嘛,不是你的上司嘛雖然部長是,但是這個測競會不是嘛那所以根據這衛福部你們的這個淹害防治測競會設置要點召集人當然由部長兼任執行長一人是由次長兼任那這個會的這個工作小組就是由國民健康署署長你擔任召集人嘛對不對\n\n12:06.590 --> 12:29.319\n所以這個測淨會就是國建署的長官那也就是淹害基金會的頂頭上司那現在要審預算那本席就想了解一下就是說有關於這個淹害這個淹害防治測淨會每年有多少預算可以使用那既然你們說都有這個設立工作小組負責推動淹害防治相關工作那就表示說這個單位應該有這個預算來執行相關的工作\n\n12:34.261 --> 12:44.268\n你們明確說這個單位每年有多少預算,然後錢從哪裡來?你們可以講一下嗎?委員指的是測進會這個單位是吧?它就是一個臨時的組織的一個會議而已。\n\n12:50.643 --> 13:11.177\n臨時編制的一個會議而已臨時編制的會議那因為這個策經會113年度的會議資料這個單位的經費好像是你們應該是來自這個菸品健康福利捐嘛是來自於這個菸害防治基金啊他沒有特別的預算編耶都沒有對但是他的我是從你們113年度的會議資料那邊看來的喔你們要經費這個菸品的這個健康福利捐\n\n13:19.653 --> 13:20.795\n會在這個諮詢會裡面做討論報告會在這裡做討論報告\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.632,"end":12.652,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":23.05,"end":43.671,"text":"部長好,那個我想要先請教一下,因為10月9號的時候也有跟部長拜託說因為那個文件站跟那個巷弄長照站的照服員已經五年沒有調新了這個問題,那希望說明年可以一起調整。那當時部長也說會好好瞭解跟規劃,那我要請教一下這個長照司了,因為我"},{"start":49.693,"end":57.145,"text":"副市長．因為今年加薪4%那明年加薪3%那衛福部有沒有跟你們說說你"},{"start":59.121,"end":82.346,"text":"﹚陳瑩"},{"start":84.093,"end":102.344,"text":"我先報告委員,真的很敬佩委員為這個文件展大家的權益來爭取。那這個部分的確我們在指示之下我們都有在詳細的演繹。那這個演繹當中因為牽涉的有一些範圍。是不是我請長掃師跟委員報告。"},{"start":105.491,"end":112.758,"text":"加薪就是你原來的業務量然後增加了薪水叫加薪嗎?那你如果增加了業務量然後還要增加績效的話那叫什麼?這算加薪嗎?有沒有這樣的附帶條件?"},{"start":133.052,"end":152.386,"text":"或者你們現在不清楚因為我有聽到這樣的消息了解這個狀況我們會做整體的評估我知道你們要做整體評估但是我講的我們對於加薪的定義我想我們先在這裡釐清嘛有必須要增加業務量才可以加薪嗎如果說本來就是整體"},{"start":155.868,"end":171.018,"text":"增加業務量當然是理論上是應該要加薪那如果說大家都一定有一個制度是一定隨著物價所以怎麼樣再上場的話我想這個也應該都要考慮在內這樣子"},{"start":172.827,"end":196.353,"text":"好,那個我就做這個提醒,因為這種附帶條件很奇怪,因為我們這次的加薪是整體的。好,謝謝那那個常総司請回。那另外我想我們來看一個這個表啦,因為最近大家在討論這個霸凌調查的這個部分,既有深度又有廣度。那雖然我們不知道是部長是誰給你這樣子的一個深度跟廣度的標準,但是我們看一下,"},{"start":197.493,"end":224.025,"text":"這個表因為這也是目前你們公布然後我們大家看到這個表我這樣放眼過去我唯一我沒有辦法理解就是說這個社工司檢認視察職場霸凌成立記過一次長照司司長不成立但他也記過一次一個成立一個不成立但是都記過一次這個是我們會有很多的疑問跑出來嘛"},{"start":229.15,"end":236.536,"text":"報告委員現在目前這個部分主要有兩個部分一個就是成立跟不成立"},{"start":237.821,"end":259.246,"text":"另外一個就是說有關情節輕重。你成立,你成立的話就要符合這一個所謂一般我們有關於霸凌的一個相關的定義。人總有給我們一個,還有其實最主要我們參考那個各個法院的判例。判例裡面大概有三個最主要要件。第一個就是說你在職場當中用詮釋的這個方式發生在職場上面。"},{"start":259.906,"end":289.906,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":290.286,"end":304.838,"text":"長江市市長等這些雖然說他沒有到那個霸凌那個程度但是我們認定他這裡面是有管理事項我是建議你們這樣子好不好因為你們給資料其實我們也沒有很完整資料就看到這個表嘛"},{"start":305.778,"end":327.91,"text":"你這個表其實會讓我們有很多的質疑你這個表沒有寫好你又不講清楚懲處是什麼懲處所以就變成你們衛福部的調查就沒有公信力啊那衛福部調查衛福部就等於部長沒有公信力嗎所以我只是說你們這個表讓我們非常的疑惑那如果既然是那個你就把它寫清楚你那個表設計是不良的"},{"start":328.851,"end":337.757,"text":"好,我們有詳細的調查報告那氣勢沒話以後就要到委員的辦公室親自跟委員報告我們時間有限吼那個我我來"},{"start":339.984,"end":367.356,"text":"對我來直接我們就進入這個加熱菸的議題好了好那個2024年12月16日中午12點左右也就是今天我的助理呢負責這個加熱菸議題的助理呢從台北火車站回到正在回到我們立法院的路上這個好巧不巧呢我們就遇到了這個我們的假署長號"},{"start":369.497,"end":379.99,"text":"我想要請問因為他遇到那個角署長的時候角署長在路上跟我的助理這樣講我很早就想在路上遇到你了"},{"start":381.192,"end":397.73,"text":"他有面帶微笑但是這話聽起來很恐怖欸你們要找助理請問各位在找助理你們想要找美國委員的助理你們會在路上立法院以外的路上說我很早就想遇到你了嗎很想在路上遇到你了嗎你們會嗎會的舉手"},{"start":399.946,"end":400.407,"text":"哇 這話聽起來不寒而栗欸"},{"start":421.088,"end":443.924,"text":"還是...我不知道啊是平常哪位你們...你們哪位政務官或事務官會遇到助理都會在路上這樣子講還是...還是還是他比較希望看到我的時候這句話是想對我講的我很早就想在路上遇到委員了等一下請吳署長去問他一下"},{"start":445.697,"end":460.113,"text":"我再請教一下那個正牌的吳署長,你覺得這句話是什麼意思?我真的沒辦法讓他揣測他的想法,但是我絕對不會這樣做,而且我也覺得蠻恐怖的。"},{"start":461.969,"end":487.787,"text":"對嘛我是說一般正常的人都會覺得不寒而栗啊怎麼會這樣子問呢我只是想要告訴你們我這裡公開講我告訴你們我的加熱菸的這個質詢部分很精彩的部分都是我自己加上去的啊如果很想遇到我我們幾乎最近因為立法院很忙我也幾乎都在研究室再不然我就在委員會"},{"start":489.07,"end":489.13,"text":"稍後。"},{"start":505.652,"end":505.772,"text":"可能3億"},{"start":545.208,"end":564.314,"text":"雖然只是降了3億但是它就是有一個現象意思就是說我加熱煙即便被你們卡住遲遲沒有真正的開放即便修法通過它仍然沒有開放但是奇妙的是止煙的這個煙稅它還是降低的這代表什麼"},{"start":565.54,"end":586.401,"text":"就代表這個就是一個市場的需求他們就還是會去偷抽嘛我上次不是跟你比了嗎上看下看左看右看那個抓不到的百億的稅都在這裡啊所以你們卡那個是沒有意思的你們卡到了只是真的只是政府的稅收你們再怎麼卡都不會增加那個只淹淹稅的稅收啦"},{"start":589.343,"end":591.845,"text":"我覺得每一個議題都是真的議題"},{"start":613.581,"end":617.664,"text":"我每次上來講到加熱因我都點出重要的數據上次是那個百億齁那這一次我點出百分之1.6淹稅下降"},{"start":642.025,"end":666.65,"text":"加熱煙沒有開放但煙稅、紫煙煙稅是下降的這個數據給你們參考它背後的意義表示什麼那就是說現在就是說因為我還想請教就是說煙害這個煙害防治的工作到底是國民健康署的工作還是這個煙害防治基金的這個工作還是它是這個煙害防治策進會的業務因為"},{"start":669.844,"end":697.607,"text":"因為主要是這樣子齁我想要釐清一下這個菸害防治策進會是不是國民健康署的這個上司是嗎是還是不是我想菸害防治法在國民健康署是主責單位那部裡面有一個策進會只是針對說我們就是說我們整個菸害防治的時候有一個報告那部長是個召集人"},{"start":698.874,"end":725.91,"text":"對啦,但是他就是你們的那個整個...應該也不是啦,我是住建議書啦不是嘛,不是你的上司嘛雖然部長是,但是這個測競會不是嘛那所以根據這衛福部你們的這個淹害防治測競會設置要點召集人當然由部長兼任執行長一人是由次長兼任那這個會的這個工作小組就是由國民健康署署長你擔任召集人嘛對不對"},{"start":726.59,"end":749.319,"text":"所以這個測淨會就是國建署的長官那也就是淹害基金會的頂頭上司那現在要審預算那本席就想了解一下就是說有關於這個淹害這個淹害防治測淨會每年有多少預算可以使用那既然你們說都有這個設立工作小組負責推動淹害防治相關工作那就表示說這個單位應該有這個預算來執行相關的工作"},{"start":754.261,"end":764.268,"text":"你們明確說這個單位每年有多少預算,然後錢從哪裡來?你們可以講一下嗎?委員指的是測進會這個單位是吧?它就是一個臨時的組織的一個會議而已。"},{"start":770.643,"end":791.177,"text":"臨時編制的一個會議而已臨時編制的會議那因為這個策經會113年度的會議資料這個單位的經費好像是你們應該是來自這個菸品健康福利捐嘛是來自於這個菸害防治基金啊他沒有特別的預算編耶都沒有對但是他的我是從你們113年度的會議資料那邊看來的喔你們要經費這個菸品的這個健康福利捐"},{"start":799.653,"end":800.795,"text":"會在這個諮詢會裡面做討論報告會在這裡做討論報告"},{"start":811.937,"end":839.497,"text":"陳瑩"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":2143,"blocks":[["陳委員瑩：（14時11分）非常感謝召委的等待，我請部長先上來。"],["主席：部長請。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["陳委員瑩：部長好。我想要先請教一下，因為10月9日的時候也有跟部長拜託，針對文健站及巷弄長照站的照服員已經5年沒有調薪的問題，希望明年可以一起調整，當時部長也說會好好瞭解跟規劃，我要請教一下長照司，司長沒有來？"],["邱部長泰源：副司長。"],["陳委員瑩：副司長，因為今年加薪4%嘛！明年加薪3%，那衛福部有沒有跟你們說，說你附帶條件必須要增加多少業務，做多少績效之後才可以加薪？這樣子算加薪嗎？加薪應該是維持原來的業務量，然後有增加你的薪水，那叫加薪嘛！但是現在的加薪有沒有說你們要增加多少業務、增加多少績效之後才可以加薪？有沒有這樣的要求跟附帶條件？"],["邱部長泰源：我先報告委員，真的很敬佩委員為文健站大家的權益來爭取，這個部分的確我們在指示之下，我們都有在詳細地研議，研議當中因為牽扯了一些範圍，是不是請長照司跟委員報告？"],["陳委員瑩：簡短快速。"],["吳副司長希文：是，報告委員，這個部分已經有整體在做評估，近期我們會儘快將相關的評估結果再跟委員做一個回復報告。"],["陳委員瑩：但我這邊的重點是，我剛剛講了一個概念，加薪就是原來的業務量，然後增加了薪水叫加薪嘛！如果增加了業務量，然後還要增加績效的話，那叫什麼？這算加薪嗎？有沒有這樣的附帶條件？或者你們現在不清楚？因為我有聽到這樣的消息。"],["邱部長泰源：我們瞭解這個狀況，我們會做整體的評估。"],["陳委員瑩：好，部長，我知道你們要做整體評估，但是我講的是我們對於加薪的定義，我們先在這裡釐清嘛！有必須要增加業務量才可以加薪嗎？如果說本來就是整體提高3%、4%。"],["邱部長泰源：增加業務量，當然理論上是應該要加薪啦！"],["陳委員瑩：還有增加績效。"],["邱部長泰源：如果說大家有一個制度是一直隨著物價、隨著怎麼樣在上漲的話，我想這個也應該都要考慮在內。"],["陳委員瑩：好，我就做這個提醒，有這種附帶條件很奇怪，因為我們這次的加薪是整體的。好，謝謝，長照司請回。","另外，我們來看一個表，因為大家最近在討論霸凌調查這個部分，既有深度又有廣度，雖然我們不知道是誰給部長這樣子一個深度跟廣度的標準，但是我們看一下這個表，這個是你們目前公布，然後我們大家看到這個表，我這樣放眼過去，我唯一沒有辦法理解的是，這個社工司簡任視察職場霸凌成立，記過1次，長照司司長不成立，但他也記過1次，一個成立一個不成立，但是都記過1次，我們會有很多的疑問跑出來嘛！你這個表……"],["邱部長泰源：請我們召集人來說明。"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，目前主要有兩個部分，一個就是成立跟不成立，另外一個就是有關情節輕重，成立的話就要符合一般有關於霸凌的相關定義，人總有給我們一個，其實最主要我們是參考各個法院的判例啦！判例裡面大概有三個最主要的要件，第一個就是你在職場當中用權勢的方式，發生在職場上面；第二個是造成所謂的敵意性環境；第三個就是你對於當事人產生的貶抑，還有整個信心上的毀損，甚至必須要去身心就診的這些。事實上這是一個有關於霸凌的定義，根據這一個，我們訪談了很多很多同仁之後，然後還有相關的事證，我們才做出成立跟不成立，如果說不成立的話，其實這裡面可能也有一些管理失當，比如說像長照司司長等等這些。"],["陳委員瑩：把體罰說成運動的部分呢？"],["呂次長建德：對，雖然他沒有到霸凌那個程度，但是我們認定這裡面是有管理失當。"],["陳委員瑩：我是建議你們這樣子，好不好？因為你們給資料，其實我們也沒有很完整的資料，就是看到這個表嘛！你這個表其實會讓我們有很多的質疑，你這個表沒有寫好，你又不講清楚懲處是什麼懲處，所以就變成你們衛福部的調查沒有公信力啊！那衛福部調查，衛福部就等於部長沒有公信力嘛！我只是說你們這個表讓我們非常的疑惑，你就把它寫清楚，你那個表設計是不良的。"],["邱部長泰源：好，我們有詳細的調查報告，去識別化以後就會到委員的辦公室親自跟委員報告。"],["陳委員瑩：時間有限，我們直接進入加熱菸的議題好了。2024年12月16日中午12點左右，也就是今天，我的助理，負責加熱菸議題的助理從臺北火車站回到立法院的路上，好巧不巧就遇到了假署長，那我想要請問，因為他遇到假署長的時候，假署長在路上跟我的助理這樣講：「我很早就想在路上遇到你了」，他有面帶微笑，但是這話聽起來很恐怖耶！你們要找助理，請問各位在找助理，你們想要找每個委員的助理，你們會在立法院以外的路上說我很早就想遇到你了嗎？很想在路上遇到你了嗎？你們會嗎？會的舉手，正常應該是不會吧！助理很忙碌，整天都關在立法院，在研究室裡做研究，怎麼會有人，還是你們的假署長在路上這樣子跟我們的助理講，他又好死不死剛好是負責加熱菸議題的助理，哇！這話聽起來不寒而慄耶！我不知道平常你們哪位政務官或事務官在路上遇到助理都會這樣子講，還是他比較希望看到我的時候，這句話是想對我講的？說我很早就想在路上遇到委員了。"],["邱部長泰源：等一下我請吳署長去問他一下。"],["陳委員瑩：不是啦！我可不可以請教一下正牌的吳署長──你覺得這句話是什麼意思？"],["吳署長昭軍：我真的沒辦法揣測他的想法啦！"],["陳委員瑩：你覺得這樣問……"],["吳署長昭軍：但是我絕對不會這樣做，而且我也覺得滿恐怖的。"],["陳委員瑩：對嘛！我是說一般正常的人都會覺得不寒而慄啊！怎麼會這樣子問呢？我只是想要告訴你們，我在這裡公開講，我告訴你們，我的加熱菸的質詢部分，很精彩的部分都是我自己加上去的，如果很想遇到我，因為立法院很忙，我也幾乎都在研究室，再不然我就在委員會，所以如果想要遇到我的話，在院區都會遇到，那你如果真的遇不到，我們下班之後可能也會在路上遇到，我也歡迎你這樣子跟我講，好不好？","我要點出一點，就是說加熱菸其實有一個好玩的數據，在我們政府所有的稅收裡面，唯一負成長的是什麼？就是這一次紙菸的菸稅，它降低了1.6%，部長你知道降低1.6%是多少錢？"],["邱部長泰源：可能3億。"],["陳委員瑩：3億，242億……"],["邱部長泰源：對，1%。"],["陳委員瑩：3億左右嘛！好，雖然只是降了3億，但是它有一個現象，意思就是說加熱菸即便被你們卡住，遲遲沒有真正的開放，即便修法通過它仍然沒有開放，但是奇妙的是，紙菸的菸稅還是降低的，這代表什麼？代表這是一個市場的需求，他們還是會去偷抽嘛！我上次不是跟你比了嗎？上看下看左看右看，那個抓不到的百億的稅都在這裡啊！所以你們卡那個是沒有意思的，你們卡到的真的只是政府的稅收，你們再怎麼卡都不會增加紙菸菸稅的稅收啦！所以我很不服氣董氏基金會說加熱菸是個假議題，部長，你覺得加熱菸是個假議題嗎？我不知道他們講這個是什麼意思，他上次有講抽紙菸的高中生越來越少了，難道這個才是真的議題嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：我覺得每一個議題都是真的議題，都是要好好地來研議。至於加熱菸的審查，其實國健署一直在協助相關的輔導，輔導相關的單位來……"],["陳委員瑩：好，今天我要點出的是，我每次上來講到加熱菸，我都點出重要的數據，上次是那個百億，這一次我點出1.6%菸稅下降，加熱菸沒有開放，但紙菸菸稅是下降的，這個數據給你們參考，它背後的意義表示什麼？","我還想請教，菸害防制的工作到底是國民健康署的工作，還是菸害防制基金的工作？還是它是菸害防制策進會的業務？因為主要是這樣子，我想要釐清一下，菸害防制策進會是不是國民健康署的上司？是嗎？是還是不是？"],["吳署長昭軍：我想菸害防制法在國民健康署是主責單位，那部裡面有一個策進會，就是說我們整個菸害防制的時候有一個報告，部長是召集人。"],["陳委員瑩：對啦！但是它就是你們的……"],["吳署長昭軍：應該也不是啦！我是執行秘書。"],["陳委員瑩：也不是嘛！不是你的上司嘛！雖然部長是，但是這個策進會不是，所以根據衛福部菸害防制策進會設置要點，召集人當然由部長兼任，執行長一人是由次長兼任，這個會的工作小組就是由國民健康署署長你擔任召集人，對不對？"],["吳署長昭軍：是。"],["陳委員瑩：所以這個策進會就是國健署的長官，也就是菸害基金會的頂頭上司啊！因為現在要審預算，本席想瞭解菸害防制策進會每年有多少預算可以使用，既然你們有設立工作小組負責推動菸害防制相關工作，那就表示這個單位應該有預算來執行相關的工作，你們明確說這個單位每年有多少預算，然後錢從哪裡來，你們可以講一下嗎？"],["吳署長昭軍：委員指的是策進會這個單位是吧？"],["陳委員瑩：對。"],["吳署長昭軍：它就是一個臨時組織的會議而已，臨時編制的一個會議而已，諮詢會議。"],["陳委員瑩：臨時編制的會議，因為根據策進會113年度的會議資料，這個單位的經費應該是來自菸品健康福利捐嘛！是來自於菸害防制基金啊！"],["吳署長昭軍：它沒有特別的預算編列。"],["陳委員瑩：都沒有？"],["吳署長昭軍：對。"],["陳委員瑩：但是我是從你們113年度的會議資料那邊看來的哦！你們那個經費來自菸品健康福利捐，還有菸害防制基金。"],["吳署長昭軍：我們是把整體我們做的菸害防制相關經費的編列及執行成效的業務報告，會在這個諮詢會議裡面做討論報告。"],["陳委員瑩：會在這裡做討論？"],["吳署長昭軍：對，因為部長是召集人，有相關的委員，必須要跟委員來報告我們今年的執行狀況跟明年度相關經費的編列。"],["陳委員瑩：所以你們那個預算統統都沒有？"],["吳署長昭軍：沒有。"],["陳委員瑩：都沒有預算？"],["吳署長昭軍：只有開會而已，一個委員會而已。"],["陳委員瑩：好，你們那個會議資料於會後一併提供給我們做參考。"],["吳署長昭軍：好。"],["陳委員瑩：好，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：好，沒問題，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳瑩委員。","伍麗華委員要求質詢4分鐘，3分鐘啦！"]],"agenda":{"page_end":284,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-14","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","劉建國","陳菁徽","林淑芬","王正旭","羅廷瑋","黃秀芳","廖偉翔","王育敏","陳瑩","黃國昌","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","盧縣一","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","楊曜","邱鎮軍","涂權吉"],"page_start":143,"meetingDate":["2024-12-16"],"gazette_id":"1140602","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140602_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請衛生福利部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請衛生福利部部長、考試院、行\n政院人事行政總處針對「所屬機關有關霸凌事件之調查檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1140602_00002"}}}