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\"我們的審計看法和委員的看法一樣因為這個一千多項一千兩百多項到現在檢討了以後還有八百多項我們有叫他請他是不是加快速度來看看還有哪些可能民眾實在相當\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 566.104, \"end\": 566.844, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 566.844, \"end\": 568.145, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 568.145, \"end\": 568.345, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 568.345, \"end\": 568.645, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"和\", \"start\": 568.645, \"end\": 569.006, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 569.006, \"end\": 569.366, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 569.366, \"end\": 569.646, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 569.646, \"end\": 569.826, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 569.826, \"end\": 570.066, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 570.066, \"end\": 570.346, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 570.346, \"end\": 571.287, \"score\": 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580.672, \"end\": 581.172, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 581.172, \"end\": 581.433, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"快\", \"start\": 581.433, \"end\": 581.653, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"速\", \"start\": 581.653, \"end\": 581.853, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 581.853, \"end\": 582.633, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 582.633, \"end\": 582.813, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 582.813, \"end\": 584.514, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 584.514, \"end\": 585.535, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 585.535, \"end\": 585.755, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 585.755, \"end\": 586.155, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 586.155, \"end\": 586.375, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 586.375, \"end\": 587.056, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 587.056, \"end\": 587.636, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 587.636, \"end\": 588.456, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 588.456, \"end\": 588.476, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"當\"}]}, {\"start\": 589.717, \"end\": 592.958, \"text\": \"需要我用的藥品大概整體叫他們盤一盤大概這個部分我們今年剛剛1、2年的總結算的審核報告有提出來謝謝委員注意到這個問題\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"需\", \"start\": 589.717, \"end\": 589.877, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 589.877, \"end\": 589.897, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 589.897, \"end\": 589.937, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 589.937, \"end\": 590.077, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 590.077, \"end\": 590.097, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"藥\"}, {\"word\": \"品\", \"start\": 590.097, \"end\": 590.217, \"score\": 0.468}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 590.217, \"end\": 590.397, \"score\": 0.68}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 590.397, \"end\": 591.178, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 591.178, \"end\": 592.118, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"叫\", \"start\": 592.118, \"end\": 592.218, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 592.218, \"end\": 592.258, \"score\": 0.087}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"盤\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 592.258, \"end\": 592.278, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"盤\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 592.278, \"end\": 592.298, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 592.298, \"end\": 592.378, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 592.378, \"end\": 592.398, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 592.398, \"end\": 592.418, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 592.418, \"end\": 592.438, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 592.438, \"end\": 592.498, \"score\": 0.084}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 592.498, \"end\": 592.518, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": 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\"括\", \"start\": 924.701, \"end\": 924.821, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 924.821, \"end\": 924.901, \"score\": 0.72}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 924.901, \"end\": 925.041, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 925.041, \"end\": 925.061, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 925.061, \"end\": 925.101, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 925.101, \"end\": 925.641, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 925.641, \"end\": 925.961, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 925.961, \"end\": 926.241, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"延\", \"start\": 926.241, \"end\": 926.421, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"遲\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 926.421, \"end\": 926.701, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 926.701, \"end\": 927.001, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 927.001, \"end\": 927.021, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 941.535, \"end\": 941.556, \"score\": 0.012}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:20,349 --> 00:00:23,472\n謝謝院長有請沈記長李委員好\n\n2\n00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:56,374\n最近勞動部爆發勞發署北分署的前署長謝宜容涉嫌職場霸凌導致公務員的輕生案漸漸衍生出勞動部濫用就業安定基金從這幾年中央政府總預算案的預算書裡面可以發現就業安定基金的宣傳費竟然連連的增加那111年是1.2億112年是1.5億\n\n3\n00:01:03,799 --> 00:01:26,230\n到113年編列1.7億然後明年的預算編列更是高達2億1700多萬元實在是令人匪夷所思更難以理解從81年起政府為了平衡僱主聘僱移工的衍生的社會成本就依據就業服務法規定對僱主徵收就業安定費\n\n4\n00:01:27,250 --> 00:01:47,166\n而且所有的僱主每個月要繳納就業安定費兩千元給就業安定基金根據資料顯示光是112年度的就業安定基金一整年的收取就業安定費的收入就高達212億多元其中將近三分之一的收入是由聘僱社\n\n5\n00:01:47,907 --> 00:02:05,408\n福的移工的僱主所繳納的．其實這個對長期聘僱．外籍看護工的．私人的家庭．還有跟身心障礙者．是非常沉重的經濟上面的負擔．因此有關就業安定基金．的預算的編列和經費之用．本席想要請教沈記長幾個問題\n\n6\n00:02:07,967 --> 00:02:32,204\n根據救安基金收支的保管．還有運用的辦法規定．救安基金是用來．辦理促進國民的就業．提升勞工的福祉．及處理外國人聘僱管理的事情．結果沒想到．近年來的救安基金．卻遭媒體踢爆被濫用的情勢．包括勞動部及勞動力發展署．濫用救安基金媒體政策機．\n\n7\n00:02:33,665 --> 00:02:51,333\n業務的宣傳費的推廣費．用來舉辦音樂會．還有採購三節的禮品等．明顯就是救安基金的規定．跟救安基金的規定的用途未盡相符．那我們執政黨竟然．濫用安定勞工的社福的預算．變成了政府官員舉辦音樂會．唱歌、養媒體．\n\n8\n00:02:54,835 --> 00:03:22,234\n還有做大內宣．甚至用來裝潢辦公室．還有採購三節的禮品．送禮做人情的不當使用．這對遵守法規．按時繳納就業安定費的．弱勢私人的家庭．來說是情何以堪啊．如此濫用人民的納稅錢．怎麼對得起．廣大的勞工的朋友呢．那請問沈記長．你說這是不是明顯的．浪費公堂啊．\n\n9\n00:03:23,359 --> 00:03:39,097\n他看起來應該不合基金用好那再請問沈記長沈記部有沒有掌握就業安定基金近年來的媒體政策及業務的宣導費及推廣費這些預算的編列及支用的數據呢有\n\n10\n00:03:41,992 --> 00:04:07,107\n剛剛委員講的那個媒體政策及AU先導會的部分就如同委員所講的是逐點增加但是推展會他除了媒體先導會以後以外他也有推展會像推展會113年也有1億3000多萬所以加起來媒體政策先導會加推展會大概也有3億多\n\n11\n00:04:09,011 --> 00:04:37,592\n所以就業安定基金是特別的收入的基金收入的來源是向屁股的移工的僱主徵收來的然後基金主要是用來促進國民就業嘛但剛才那個省紀長也說了那勞動部竟然每年編譯3億多的預算去做政策的宣導還有業務的推廣而且還被踢爆濫權使用那請問省紀長省紀部近年來就業安定基金各項的經費的支用有沒有進行了解還有沒有規劃查核呢\n\n12\n00:04:38,593 --> 00:05:01,890\n有沒有違法還是失職的情勢呢?這些審計部要如何處理呢?有,大概剛剛我也談過他我們收回安基基金他們去衛福規定的租出我們這一兩年收回3億多第二個他這三年短絕了差不多200多億我們也要請勞動部檢討\n\n13\n00:05:03,531 --> 00:05:16,034\n第三個他有的在補助那些長年連續都在違動勞動法令的一些補助三千多萬我們都有要他勞動部好好檢討\n\n14\n00:05:18,377 --> 00:05:44,124\n希望審計部可以為這些所施仁的家庭好好的把關．救安基金的經費的支用．請審計長可以在此承諾．針對安定基金的運用．承諾進行專案的審計．查核近5年來經費的支用的情形．包括過去幾年．是否有沒有作假帳．請審計長後續調查報告．一併提供本席和本院參考．可以嗎\n\n15\n00:05:45,441 --> 00:06:06,237\n好的因為我們有答應在裁委會的時候有答應委員他們希望能夠他希望我們大家委員也希望我們去查核我們所謂有一經派人去查大概有查了三年委員現在希望我們查五年我們會照委員的意思再增加兩年\n\n16\n00:06:07,622 --> 00:06:10,003\n建保署為了節省藥物的支出每年都會進行藥品的價格的調整根據113年度藥價調整的結果\n\n17\n00:06:33,767 --> 00:06:39,490\n遭到砍價的藥品有4000多項導致部分的藥品原本價格就已經非常低了然後再繼續被砍下去的話藥廠來說其實已經不符合成本了然後都停產了而且這會造成民眾用不到藥而且引發民眾的恐慌所以我想請教沈記長國內過去頻傳有缺藥啊然後缺快篩啊缺輸液啊這些事情甚至可能會危及病人的生命的\n\n18\n00:07:02,901 --> 00:07:19,438\n然後解決缺藥的危機還要花數倍的價錢由不同的國家來進口然後耗費更多的預算根本性的問題就是在於健保藥價政策不當那請問審計部有沒有進行什麼相關的查核呢\n\n19\n00:07:20,848 --> 00:07:49,136\n我們112年有查這個問題大概我們也提出來說這個藥價夠低可能也會造成一些問題所以我們有請健保署好好檢討一下不能造成整個剛剛委員所講的各方面的醫療用品或者藥品都造成切後的問題我們要找到一個合理適當的一個藥價\n\n20\n00:07:51,616 --> 00:08:08,536\n那針對健保改革沈機長你是否同意我們也先從民眾的自我照顧的概念開始宣導呢因為這個政策就是對於藥品轉類然後讓我們自己國人有自我照護的環境透過這些部分已經安全無虞的藥品\n\n21\n00:08:09,417 --> 00:08:34,218\n然後像處方藥可以轉類指示用藥．並加速指示用藥退出健保．這樣的話就是不會造成．太多的健保上面的負擔．根據統計我國健保制開辦到現在．已經違法給付指示用藥．已經近30年了．據統計2022年健保扔．給付800多項指示用藥．佔健保給付藥物的比例達．\n\n22\n00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:57,775\n27.3%．一級就是說．保給付的藥物中．超過四分之一的項目是違法給付．更耗費了大約20億的公帑．那指示用藥依法本來就是．不屬於建保的給付範圍．但因為建保開辦初期．考量醫生、醫療與民眾就醫的習慣．建保署讓1200餘項的指示藥．暫時繼續以建保給付．\n\n23\n00:09:04,019 --> 00:09:24,375\n所以現在還有801項的指示藥品以健保給付那是不是應該要加速指示用藥就是這些讓這些安全無虞的藥品快速退出健保給付節省健保的資源讓健保資源可以合理的配置呢那請問沈機長你有沒有這方面有沒有進行相關的查核呢謝謝委員\n\n24\n00:09:26,104 --> 00:09:48,476\n我們的審計看法和委員的看法一樣因為這個一千多項一千兩百多項到現在檢討了以後還有八百多項我們有叫他請他是不是加快速度來看看還有哪些可能民眾實在相當\n\n25\n00:09:49,717 --> 00:09:52,958\n需要我用的藥品大概整體叫他們盤一盤大概這個部分我們今年剛剛1、2年的總結算的審核報告有提出來謝謝委員注意到這個問題\n\n26\n00:10:09,409 --> 00:10:30,603\n謝謝,謝謝審計長就是希望能夠加速指示用要快速退出健保給付這樣健保支援才可以更節省對,對,對好,那接下來我再請教審計長就是本席這邊有一個預算使用的問題想要請教你雖然現在還沒有執行但是希望審計部未來要好好的審計查核那就是國防部軍備局\n\n27\n00:10:32,164 --> 00:10:59,121\n預計在明年114年度就是114年到117年總共編了68億5900萬的預算捐助行政法人中科院與民雄西策那邊開發了軍規無人機的產線預計在115年投產那建置這一個航太機無人機的產業園區據說中科院打算委外管理但\n\n28\n00:10:59,961 --> 00:11:20,806\n收了廠房的租金提供廠商的進駐那雖然新建了航太無人機產業的園區的目的當然是要落實國防自主但是推動居民技術整合的利益是良善的但問題來了就是經本席瞭解這個產業園區的土地產權管理是政府的\n\n29\n00:11:21,486 --> 00:11:38,197\n未來招商是經濟部和嘉義縣政府負責．所有收入卻沒有進國庫．全部歸中科院所有級管理．本席雖然我不是預算專家．我只想請教沈記長．這是不是哪裡怪怪的．\n\n30\n00:11:38,877 --> 00:12:08,197\n就是政府用公務的預算出錢出力給中科院結果卻是讓中科院自己成立所謂的專案基金自行管理那沈記長你當過主計總處的副處長現在身為沈記長那你認為透過公務預算捐助的新建的這些園區所有的收入支出的使用是不是要透過中科院私設基金規避國會監督的方式符合預算法的規定嗎\n\n31\n00:12:09,738 --> 00:12:27,056\n是不是應該要由國防部來成立一個非營業基金或特收基金的方式這樣才正確呢委員的建議很好我向委員報告主要動用國家資源我們損失部一定管\n\n32\n00:12:28,566 --> 00:12:44,639\n所以給委員了解到這樣的一個情況但是怎麼樣讓這一個這個延期能夠最後能夠發展起來他的效益能夠達成用的什麼方法\n\n33\n00:12:47,322 --> 00:13:06,118\n這個包括國防部、中科院都要好好的還有行政院都要好好的去思考去建立一個不要這麼複雜的制度這剛剛委員聽完以後我都還沒有搞不容易搞清楚所以制度要讓它越單純我認為單純有效這樣的一個方法但是\n\n34\n00:13:12,103 --> 00:13:29,356\n我們審計部只要動用因為這裡面我看起來委員提供的資料裡面有監制的國防部用公益算監制的68億我們這個經費也相當的大我們一定會密切的來注意\n\n35\n00:13:30,823 --> 00:13:51,779\n雖然這個中科院民雄航太計無人機產業園區計劃還沒有正式的執行但是本席還是希望審計部未來要好好的審計查核避免公務預算捐助的預算跟安定基金一樣遭到濫用還有挪用那國會還沒有辦法監督的問題可以嗎好我們會提出審計意見謝謝\n\n36\n00:13:54,568 --> 00:14:08,246\n那接下來國防部114年度有編列了稅出預算4760億元其中對美軍購M1A2T的戰車還有海馬斯火箭的系統還有\n\n37\n00:14:09,608 --> 00:14:15,356\n暗製魚叉的這些飛彈系統．還有採購F-16AV戰機．遠距遙控精準的飛彈等武器．總共有705億元．再加上國防部於109年．還有到115年的編列特別預算有2472億元．\n\n38\n00:14:28,053 --> 00:14:43,790\n2億元這樣的金額其實是非常的龐大的但是近年來常遭媒體報導交貨延遲至今留存在美方這些問題所以有關國軍對美軍購執行的情況我想請教沈記長\n\n39\n00:14:45,411 --> 00:15:02,766\n國防預算支援有限那國軍歷年編那麼高額的軍購的預算分期按發價書付款給美方目前留在美方的資金有多少然後有多少還沒有交貨的還有國防部有沒有列戰管理呢\n\n40\n00:15:04,336 --> 00:15:27,021\n報告員從後面來看這個我們有一定要求他內臟管理這個大概有這樣的目前放在那裡的還沒有交貨的我們查出來匯錢去了還沒有交的有2800多億如果像這個重大經貨這個還未延遲的這裡面包括了這1500多億是還沒有這個是屬於延遲的部分\n\n41\n00:15:41,535 --> 00:15:41,556\n好,謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n20349\t23472\t謝謝院長 有請沈記長李委員好\n34520\t56374\t最近勞動部爆發勞發署北分署的前署長 謝宜容涉嫌職場霸凌導致公務員的輕生案漸漸衍生出勞動部濫用就業安定基金從這幾年中央政府總預算案的預算書裡面可以發現就業安定基金的宣傳費竟然連連的增加那111年是1.2億112年是1.5億\n63799\t86230\t到113年編列1.7億然後明年的預算編列更是高達2億1700多萬元實在是令人匪夷所思更難以理解從81年起政府為了平衡僱主聘僱移工的衍生的社會成本就依據就業服務法規定對僱主徵收就業安定費\n87250\t107166\t而且所有的僱主每個月要繳納就業安定費兩千元給就業安定基金根據資料顯示光是112年度的就業安定基金一整年的收取就業安定費的收入就高達212億多元其中將近三分之一的收入是由聘僱社\n107907\t125408\t福的移工的僱主所繳納的．其實這個對長期聘僱．外籍看護工的．私人的家庭．還有跟身心障礙者．是非常沉重的經濟上面的負擔．因此有關就業安定基金．的預算的編列和經費之用．本席想要請教沈記長幾個問題\n127967\t152204\t根據救安基金收支的保管．還有運用的辦法規定．救安基金是用來．辦理促進國民的就業．提升勞工的福祉．及處理外國人聘僱管理的事情．結果沒想到．近年來的救安基金．卻遭媒體踢爆被濫用的情勢．包括勞動部及勞動力發展署．濫用救安基金媒體政策機．\n153665\t171333\t業務的宣傳費的推廣費．用來舉辦音樂會．還有採購三節的禮品等．明顯就是救安基金的規定．跟救安基金的規定的用途未盡相符．那我們執政黨竟然．濫用安定勞工的社福的預算．變成了政府官員舉辦音樂會．唱歌、養媒體．\n174835\t202234\t還有做大內宣．甚至用來裝潢辦公室．還有採購三節的禮品．送禮做人情的不當使用．這對遵守法規．按時繳納就業安定費的．弱勢私人的家庭．來說是情何以堪啊．如此濫用人民的納稅錢．怎麼對得起．廣大的勞工的朋友呢．那請問沈記長．你說這是不是明顯的．浪費公堂啊．\n203359\t219097\t他看起來應該不合基金用好那再請問沈記長沈記部有沒有掌握就業安定基金近年來的媒體政策及業務的宣導費及推廣費這些預算的編列及支用的數據呢有\n221992\t247107\t剛剛委員講的那個媒體政策及AU先導會的部分就如同委員所講的是逐點增加但是推展會他除了媒體先導會以後以外他也有推展會像推展會113年也有1億3000多萬所以加起來媒體政策先導會加推展會大概也有3億多\n249011\t277592\t所以就業安定基金是特別的收入的基金收入的來源是向屁股的移工的僱主徵收來的然後基金主要是用來促進國民就業嘛但剛才那個省紀長也說了那勞動部竟然每年編譯3億多的預算去做政策的宣導還有業務的推廣而且還被踢爆濫權使用那請問省紀長省紀部近年來就業安定基金各項的經費的支用有沒有進行了解還有沒有規劃查核呢\n278593\t301890\t有沒有違法還是失職的情勢呢?這些審計部要如何處理呢?有,大概剛剛我也談過他我們收回安基基金他們去衛福規定的租出我們這一兩年收回3億多第二個他這三年短絕了差不多200多億我們也要請勞動部檢討\n303531\t316034\t第三個他有的在補助那些長年連續都在違動勞動法令的一些補助三千多萬我們都有要他勞動部好好檢討\n318377\t344124\t希望審計部可以為這些所施仁的家庭好好的把關．救安基金的經費的支用．請審計長可以在此承諾．針對安定基金的運用．承諾進行專案的審計．查核近5年來經費的支用的情形．包括過去幾年．是否有沒有作假帳．請審計長後續調查報告．一併提供本席和本院參考．可以嗎\n345441\t366237\t好的 因為我們有答應在裁委會的時候有答應委員他們希望能夠他希望我們大家委員也希望我們去查核我們所謂有一經派人去查大概有查了三年委員現在希望我們查五年我們會照委員的意思再增加兩年\n367622\t370003\t建保署為了節省藥物的支出每年都會進行藥品的價格的調整根據113年度藥價調整的結果\n393767\t399490\t遭到砍價的藥品有4000多項導致部分的藥品原本價格就已經非常低了然後再繼續被砍下去的話藥廠來說其實已經不符合成本了然後都停產了而且這會造成民眾用不到藥而且引發民眾的恐慌所以我想請教沈記長國內過去頻傳有缺藥啊然後缺快篩啊缺輸液啊這些事情甚至可能會危及病人的生命的\n422901\t439438\t然後解決缺藥的危機還要花數倍的價錢由不同的國家來進口然後耗費更多的預算根本性的問題就是在於健保藥價政策不當那請問審計部有沒有進行什麼相關的查核呢\n440848\t469136\t我們112年有查這個問題大概我們也提出來說這個藥價夠低可能也會造成一些問題所以我們有請健保署好好檢討一下不能造成整個剛剛委員所講的各方面的醫療用品或者藥品都造成切後的問題我們要找到一個合理適當的一個藥價\n471616\t488536\t那針對健保改革 沈機長你是否同意我們也先從民眾的自我照顧的概念開始宣導呢因為這個政策就是對於藥品轉類然後讓我們自己國人有自我照護的環境透過這些部分已經安全無虞的藥品\n489417\t514218\t然後像處方藥可以轉類指示用藥．並加速指示用藥退出健保．這樣的話就是不會造成．太多的健保上面的負擔．根據統計我國健保制開辦到現在．已經違法給付指示用藥．已經近30年了．據統計2022年健保扔．給付800多項指示用藥．佔健保給付藥物的比例達．\n517040\t537775\t27.3%．一級就是說．保給付的藥物中．超過四分之一的項目是違法給付．更耗費了大約20億的公帑．那指示用藥依法本來就是．不屬於建保的給付範圍．但因為建保開辦初期．考量醫生、醫療與民眾就醫的習慣．建保署讓1200餘項的指示藥．暫時繼續以建保給付．\n544019\t564375\t所以現在還有801項的指示藥品以健保給付那是不是應該要加速指示用藥就是這些讓這些安全無虞的藥品快速退出健保給付節省健保的資源讓健保資源可以合理的配置呢那請問沈機長你有沒有這方面有沒有進行相關的查核呢謝謝委員\n566104\t588476\t我們的審計看法和委員的看法一樣因為這個一千多項一千兩百多項到現在檢討了以後還有八百多項我們有叫他請他是不是加快速度來看看還有哪些可能民眾實在相當\n589717\t592958\t需要我用的藥品大概整體叫他們盤一盤大概這個部分我們今年剛剛1、2年的總結算的審核報告有提出來謝謝委員注意到這個問題\n609409\t630603\t謝謝,謝謝審計長就是希望能夠加速指示用要快速退出健保給付這樣健保支援才可以更節省對,對,對好,那接下來我再請教審計長就是本席這邊有一個預算使用的問題想要請教你雖然現在還沒有執行但是希望審計部未來要好好的審計查核那就是國防部軍備局\n632164\t659121\t預計在明年114年度就是114年到117年總共編了68億5900萬的預算捐助行政法人中科院與民雄西策那邊開發了軍規無人機的產線預計在115年投產那建置這一個航太機無人機的產業園區據說中科院打算委外管理但\n659961\t680806\t收了廠房的租金提供廠商的進駐那雖然新建了航太無人機產業的園區的目的當然是要落實國防自主但是推動居民技術整合的利益是良善的但問題來了就是經本席瞭解這個產業園區的土地產權管理是政府的\n681486\t698197\t未來招商是經濟部和嘉義縣政府負責．所有收入卻沒有進國庫．全部歸中科院所有級管理．本席雖然我不是預算專家．我只想請教沈記長．這是不是哪裡怪怪的．\n698877\t728197\t就是政府用公務的預算出錢出力給中科院結果卻是讓中科院自己成立所謂的專案基金自行管理那沈記長你當過主計總處的副處長現在身為沈記長那你認為透過公務預算捐助的新建的這些園區所有的收入支出的使用是不是要透過中科院私設基金規避國會監督的方式符合預算法的規定嗎\n729738\t747056\t是不是應該要由國防部來成立一個非營業基金或特收基金的方式這樣才正確呢委員的建議很好我向委員報告主要動用國家資源我們損失部一定管\n748566\t764639\t所以給委員了解到這樣的一個情況但是怎麼樣讓這一個這個延期能夠最後能夠發展起來他的效益能夠達成用的什麼方法\n767322\t786118\t這個包括國防部、中科院都要好好的還有行政院都要好好的去思考去建立一個不要這麼複雜的制度這剛剛委員聽完以後我都還沒有搞不容易搞清楚所以制度要讓它越單純我認為單純有效這樣的一個方法但是\n792103\t809356\t我們審計部只要動用因為這裡面我看起來委員提供的資料裡面有監制的國防部用公益算監制的68億我們這個經費也相當的大我們一定會密切的來注意\n810823\t831779\t雖然這個中科院民雄航太計無人機產業園區計劃還沒有正式的執行但是本席還是希望審計部未來要好好的審計查核避免公務預算捐助的預算跟安定基金一樣遭到濫用還有挪用那國會還沒有辦法監督的問題可以嗎好我們會提出審計意見謝謝\n834568\t848246\t那接下來國防部114年度有編列了稅出預算4760億元其中對美軍購M1A2T的戰車還有海馬斯火箭的系統還有\n849608\t855356\t暗製魚叉的這些飛彈系統．還有採購F-16AV戰機．遠距遙控精準的飛彈等武器．總共有705億元．再加上國防部於109年．還有到115年的編列特別預算有2472億元．\n868053\t883790\t2億元這樣的金額其實是非常的龐大的但是近年來常遭媒體報導交貨延遲至今留存在美方這些問題所以有關國軍對美軍購執行的情況我想請教沈記長\n885411\t902766\t國防預算支援有限那國軍歷年編那麼高額的軍購的預算分期按發價書付款給美方目前留在美方的資金有多少然後有多少還沒有交貨的還有國防部有沒有列戰管理呢\n904336\t927021\t報告員從後面來看這個我們有一定要求他內臟管理這個大概有這樣的目前放在那裡的還沒有交貨的我們查出來匯錢去了還沒有交的有2800多億如果像這個重大經貨這個還未延遲的這裡面包括了這1500多億是還沒有這個是屬於延遲的部分\n941535\t941556\t好,謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝院長 有請沈記長李委員好\n最近勞動部爆發勞發署北分署的前署長 謝宜容涉嫌職場霸凌導致公務員的輕生案漸漸衍生出勞動部濫用就業安定基金從這幾年中央政府總預算案的預算書裡面可以發現就業安定基金的宣傳費竟然連連的增加那111年是1.2億112年是1.5億\n到113年編列1.7億然後明年的預算編列更是高達2億1700多萬元實在是令人匪夷所思更難以理解從81年起政府為了平衡僱主聘僱移工的衍生的社會成本就依據就業服務法規定對僱主徵收就業安定費\n而且所有的僱主每個月要繳納就業安定費兩千元給就業安定基金根據資料顯示光是112年度的就業安定基金一整年的收取就業安定費的收入就高達212億多元其中將近三分之一的收入是由聘僱社\n福的移工的僱主所繳納的．其實這個對長期聘僱．外籍看護工的．私人的家庭．還有跟身心障礙者．是非常沉重的經濟上面的負擔．因此有關就業安定基金．的預算的編列和經費之用．本席想要請教沈記長幾個問題\n根據救安基金收支的保管．還有運用的辦法規定．救安基金是用來．辦理促進國民的就業．提升勞工的福祉．及處理外國人聘僱管理的事情．結果沒想到．近年來的救安基金．卻遭媒體踢爆被濫用的情勢．包括勞動部及勞動力發展署．濫用救安基金媒體政策機．\n業務的宣傳費的推廣費．用來舉辦音樂會．還有採購三節的禮品等．明顯就是救安基金的規定．跟救安基金的規定的用途未盡相符．那我們執政黨竟然．濫用安定勞工的社福的預算．變成了政府官員舉辦音樂會．唱歌、養媒體．\n還有做大內宣．甚至用來裝潢辦公室．還有採購三節的禮品．送禮做人情的不當使用．這對遵守法規．按時繳納就業安定費的．弱勢私人的家庭．來說是情何以堪啊．如此濫用人民的納稅錢．怎麼對得起．廣大的勞工的朋友呢．那請問沈記長．你說這是不是明顯的．浪費公堂啊．\n他看起來應該不合基金用好那再請問沈記長沈記部有沒有掌握就業安定基金近年來的媒體政策及業務的宣導費及推廣費這些預算的編列及支用的數據呢有\n剛剛委員講的那個媒體政策及AU先導會的部分就如同委員所講的是逐點增加但是推展會他除了媒體先導會以後以外他也有推展會像推展會113年也有1億3000多萬所以加起來媒體政策先導會加推展會大概也有3億多\n所以就業安定基金是特別的收入的基金收入的來源是向屁股的移工的僱主徵收來的然後基金主要是用來促進國民就業嘛但剛才那個省紀長也說了那勞動部竟然每年編譯3億多的預算去做政策的宣導還有業務的推廣而且還被踢爆濫權使用那請問省紀長省紀部近年來就業安定基金各項的經費的支用有沒有進行了解還有沒有規劃查核呢\n有沒有違法還是失職的情勢呢?這些審計部要如何處理呢?有,大概剛剛我也談過他我們收回安基基金他們去衛福規定的租出我們這一兩年收回3億多第二個他這三年短絕了差不多200多億我們也要請勞動部檢討\n第三個他有的在補助那些長年連續都在違動勞動法令的一些補助三千多萬我們都有要他勞動部好好檢討\n希望審計部可以為這些所施仁的家庭好好的把關．救安基金的經費的支用．請審計長可以在此承諾．針對安定基金的運用．承諾進行專案的審計．查核近5年來經費的支用的情形．包括過去幾年．是否有沒有作假帳．請審計長後續調查報告．一併提供本席和本院參考．可以嗎\n好的 因為我們有答應在裁委會的時候有答應委員他們希望能夠他希望我們大家委員也希望我們去查核我們所謂有一經派人去查大概有查了三年委員現在希望我們查五年我們會照委員的意思再增加兩年\n建保署為了節省藥物的支出每年都會進行藥品的價格的調整根據113年度藥價調整的結果\n遭到砍價的藥品有4000多項導致部分的藥品原本價格就已經非常低了然後再繼續被砍下去的話藥廠來說其實已經不符合成本了然後都停產了而且這會造成民眾用不到藥而且引發民眾的恐慌所以我想請教沈記長國內過去頻傳有缺藥啊然後缺快篩啊缺輸液啊這些事情甚至可能會危及病人的生命的\n然後解決缺藥的危機還要花數倍的價錢由不同的國家來進口然後耗費更多的預算根本性的問題就是在於健保藥價政策不當那請問審計部有沒有進行什麼相關的查核呢\n我們112年有查這個問題大概我們也提出來說這個藥價夠低可能也會造成一些問題所以我們有請健保署好好檢討一下不能造成整個剛剛委員所講的各方面的醫療用品或者藥品都造成切後的問題我們要找到一個合理適當的一個藥價\n那針對健保改革 沈機長你是否同意我們也先從民眾的自我照顧的概念開始宣導呢因為這個政策就是對於藥品轉類然後讓我們自己國人有自我照護的環境透過這些部分已經安全無虞的藥品\n然後像處方藥可以轉類指示用藥．並加速指示用藥退出健保．這樣的話就是不會造成．太多的健保上面的負擔．根據統計我國健保制開辦到現在．已經違法給付指示用藥．已經近30年了．據統計2022年健保扔．給付800多項指示用藥．佔健保給付藥物的比例達．\n27.3%．一級就是說．保給付的藥物中．超過四分之一的項目是違法給付．更耗費了大約20億的公帑．那指示用藥依法本來就是．不屬於建保的給付範圍．但因為建保開辦初期．考量醫生、醫療與民眾就醫的習慣．建保署讓1200餘項的指示藥．暫時繼續以建保給付．\n所以現在還有801項的指示藥品以健保給付那是不是應該要加速指示用藥就是這些讓這些安全無虞的藥品快速退出健保給付節省健保的資源讓健保資源可以合理的配置呢那請問沈機長你有沒有這方面有沒有進行相關的查核呢謝謝委員\n我們的審計看法和委員的看法一樣因為這個一千多項一千兩百多項到現在檢討了以後還有八百多項我們有叫他請他是不是加快速度來看看還有哪些可能民眾實在相當\n需要我用的藥品大概整體叫他們盤一盤大概這個部分我們今年剛剛1、2年的總結算的審核報告有提出來謝謝委員注意到這個問題\n謝謝,謝謝審計長就是希望能夠加速指示用要快速退出健保給付這樣健保支援才可以更節省對,對,對好,那接下來我再請教審計長就是本席這邊有一個預算使用的問題想要請教你雖然現在還沒有執行但是希望審計部未來要好好的審計查核那就是國防部軍備局\n預計在明年114年度就是114年到117年總共編了68億5900萬的預算捐助行政法人中科院與民雄西策那邊開發了軍規無人機的產線預計在115年投產那建置這一個航太機無人機的產業園區據說中科院打算委外管理但\n收了廠房的租金提供廠商的進駐那雖然新建了航太無人機產業的園區的目的當然是要落實國防自主但是推動居民技術整合的利益是良善的但問題來了就是經本席瞭解這個產業園區的土地產權管理是政府的\n未來招商是經濟部和嘉義縣政府負責．所有收入卻沒有進國庫．全部歸中科院所有級管理．本席雖然我不是預算專家．我只想請教沈記長．這是不是哪裡怪怪的．\n就是政府用公務的預算出錢出力給中科院結果卻是讓中科院自己成立所謂的專案基金自行管理那沈記長你當過主計總處的副處長現在身為沈記長那你認為透過公務預算捐助的新建的這些園區所有的收入支出的使用是不是要透過中科院私設基金規避國會監督的方式符合預算法的規定嗎\n是不是應該要由國防部來成立一個非營業基金或特收基金的方式這樣才正確呢委員的建議很好我向委員報告主要動用國家資源我們損失部一定管\n所以給委員了解到這樣的一個情況但是怎麼樣讓這一個這個延期能夠最後能夠發展起來他的效益能夠達成用的什麼方法\n這個包括國防部、中科院都要好好的還有行政院都要好好的去思考去建立一個不要這麼複雜的制度這剛剛委員聽完以後我都還沒有搞不容易搞清楚所以制度要讓它越單純我認為單純有效這樣的一個方法但是\n我們審計部只要動用因為這裡面我看起來委員提供的資料裡面有監制的國防部用公益算監制的68億我們這個經費也相當的大我們一定會密切的來注意\n雖然這個中科院民雄航太計無人機產業園區計劃還沒有正式的執行但是本席還是希望審計部未來要好好的審計查核避免公務預算捐助的預算跟安定基金一樣遭到濫用還有挪用那國會還沒有辦法監督的問題可以嗎好我們會提出審計意見謝謝\n那接下來國防部114年度有編列了稅出預算4760億元其中對美軍購M1A2T的戰車還有海馬斯火箭的系統還有\n暗製魚叉的這些飛彈系統．還有採購F-16AV戰機．遠距遙控精準的飛彈等武器．總共有705億元．再加上國防部於109年．還有到115年的編列特別預算有2472億元．\n2億元這樣的金額其實是非常的龐大的但是近年來常遭媒體報導交貨延遲至今留存在美方這些問題所以有關國軍對美軍購執行的情況我想請教沈記長\n國防預算支援有限那國軍歷年編那麼高額的軍購的預算分期按發價書付款給美方目前留在美方的資金有多少然後有多少還沒有交貨的還有國防部有沒有列戰管理呢\n報告員從後面來看這個我們有一定要求他內臟管理這個大概有這樣的目前放在那裡的還沒有交貨的我們查出來匯錢去了還沒有交的有2800多億如果像這個重大經貨這個還未延遲的這裡面包括了這1500多億是還沒有這個是屬於延遲的部分\n好,謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:20.349 --> 00:23.472\n謝謝院長有請沈記長李委員好\n\n00:34.520 --> 00:56.374\n最近勞動部爆發勞發署北分署的前署長謝宜容涉嫌職場霸凌導致公務員的輕生案漸漸衍生出勞動部濫用就業安定基金從這幾年中央政府總預算案的預算書裡面可以發現就業安定基金的宣傳費竟然連連的增加那111年是1.2億112年是1.5億\n\n01:03.799 --> 01:26.230\n到113年編列1.7億然後明年的預算編列更是高達2億1700多萬元實在是令人匪夷所思更難以理解從81年起政府為了平衡僱主聘僱移工的衍生的社會成本就依據就業服務法規定對僱主徵收就業安定費\n\n01:27.250 --> 01:47.166\n而且所有的僱主每個月要繳納就業安定費兩千元給就業安定基金根據資料顯示光是112年度的就業安定基金一整年的收取就業安定費的收入就高達212億多元其中將近三分之一的收入是由聘僱社\n\n01:47.907 --> 02:05.408\n福的移工的僱主所繳納的．其實這個對長期聘僱．外籍看護工的．私人的家庭．還有跟身心障礙者．是非常沉重的經濟上面的負擔．因此有關就業安定基金．的預算的編列和經費之用．本席想要請教沈記長幾個問題\n\n02:07.967 --> 02:32.204\n根據救安基金收支的保管．還有運用的辦法規定．救安基金是用來．辦理促進國民的就業．提升勞工的福祉．及處理外國人聘僱管理的事情．結果沒想到．近年來的救安基金．卻遭媒體踢爆被濫用的情勢．包括勞動部及勞動力發展署．濫用救安基金媒體政策機．\n\n02:33.665 --> 02:51.333\n業務的宣傳費的推廣費．用來舉辦音樂會．還有採購三節的禮品等．明顯就是救安基金的規定．跟救安基金的規定的用途未盡相符．那我們執政黨竟然．濫用安定勞工的社福的預算．變成了政府官員舉辦音樂會．唱歌、養媒體．\n\n02:54.835 --> 03:22.234\n還有做大內宣．甚至用來裝潢辦公室．還有採購三節的禮品．送禮做人情的不當使用．這對遵守法規．按時繳納就業安定費的．弱勢私人的家庭．來說是情何以堪啊．如此濫用人民的納稅錢．怎麼對得起．廣大的勞工的朋友呢．那請問沈記長．你說這是不是明顯的．浪費公堂啊．\n\n03:23.359 --> 03:39.097\n他看起來應該不合基金用好那再請問沈記長沈記部有沒有掌握就業安定基金近年來的媒體政策及業務的宣導費及推廣費這些預算的編列及支用的數據呢有\n\n03:41.992 --> 04:07.107\n剛剛委員講的那個媒體政策及AU先導會的部分就如同委員所講的是逐點增加但是推展會他除了媒體先導會以後以外他也有推展會像推展會113年也有1億3000多萬所以加起來媒體政策先導會加推展會大概也有3億多\n\n04:09.011 --> 04:37.592\n所以就業安定基金是特別的收入的基金收入的來源是向屁股的移工的僱主徵收來的然後基金主要是用來促進國民就業嘛但剛才那個省紀長也說了那勞動部竟然每年編譯3億多的預算去做政策的宣導還有業務的推廣而且還被踢爆濫權使用那請問省紀長省紀部近年來就業安定基金各項的經費的支用有沒有進行了解還有沒有規劃查核呢\n\n04:38.593 --> 05:01.890\n有沒有違法還是失職的情勢呢?這些審計部要如何處理呢?有,大概剛剛我也談過他我們收回安基基金他們去衛福規定的租出我們這一兩年收回3億多第二個他這三年短絕了差不多200多億我們也要請勞動部檢討\n\n05:03.531 --> 05:16.034\n第三個他有的在補助那些長年連續都在違動勞動法令的一些補助三千多萬我們都有要他勞動部好好檢討\n\n05:18.377 --> 05:44.124\n希望審計部可以為這些所施仁的家庭好好的把關．救安基金的經費的支用．請審計長可以在此承諾．針對安定基金的運用．承諾進行專案的審計．查核近5年來經費的支用的情形．包括過去幾年．是否有沒有作假帳．請審計長後續調查報告．一併提供本席和本院參考．可以嗎\n\n05:45.441 --> 06:06.237\n好的因為我們有答應在裁委會的時候有答應委員他們希望能夠他希望我們大家委員也希望我們去查核我們所謂有一經派人去查大概有查了三年委員現在希望我們查五年我們會照委員的意思再增加兩年\n\n06:07.622 --> 06:10.003\n建保署為了節省藥物的支出每年都會進行藥品的價格的調整根據113年度藥價調整的結果\n\n06:33.767 --> 06:39.490\n遭到砍價的藥品有4000多項導致部分的藥品原本價格就已經非常低了然後再繼續被砍下去的話藥廠來說其實已經不符合成本了然後都停產了而且這會造成民眾用不到藥而且引發民眾的恐慌所以我想請教沈記長國內過去頻傳有缺藥啊然後缺快篩啊缺輸液啊這些事情甚至可能會危及病人的生命的\n\n07:02.901 --> 07:19.438\n然後解決缺藥的危機還要花數倍的價錢由不同的國家來進口然後耗費更多的預算根本性的問題就是在於健保藥價政策不當那請問審計部有沒有進行什麼相關的查核呢\n\n07:20.848 --> 07:49.136\n我們112年有查這個問題大概我們也提出來說這個藥價夠低可能也會造成一些問題所以我們有請健保署好好檢討一下不能造成整個剛剛委員所講的各方面的醫療用品或者藥品都造成切後的問題我們要找到一個合理適當的一個藥價\n\n07:51.616 --> 08:08.536\n那針對健保改革沈機長你是否同意我們也先從民眾的自我照顧的概念開始宣導呢因為這個政策就是對於藥品轉類然後讓我們自己國人有自我照護的環境透過這些部分已經安全無虞的藥品\n\n08:09.417 --> 08:34.218\n然後像處方藥可以轉類指示用藥．並加速指示用藥退出健保．這樣的話就是不會造成．太多的健保上面的負擔．根據統計我國健保制開辦到現在．已經違法給付指示用藥．已經近30年了．據統計2022年健保扔．給付800多項指示用藥．佔健保給付藥物的比例達．\n\n08:37.040 --> 08:57.775\n27.3%．一級就是說．保給付的藥物中．超過四分之一的項目是違法給付．更耗費了大約20億的公帑．那指示用藥依法本來就是．不屬於建保的給付範圍．但因為建保開辦初期．考量醫生、醫療與民眾就醫的習慣．建保署讓1200餘項的指示藥．暫時繼續以建保給付．\n\n09:04.019 --> 09:24.375\n所以現在還有801項的指示藥品以健保給付那是不是應該要加速指示用藥就是這些讓這些安全無虞的藥品快速退出健保給付節省健保的資源讓健保資源可以合理的配置呢那請問沈機長你有沒有這方面有沒有進行相關的查核呢謝謝委員\n\n09:26.104 --> 09:48.476\n我們的審計看法和委員的看法一樣因為這個一千多項一千兩百多項到現在檢討了以後還有八百多項我們有叫他請他是不是加快速度來看看還有哪些可能民眾實在相當\n\n09:49.717 --> 09:52.958\n需要我用的藥品大概整體叫他們盤一盤大概這個部分我們今年剛剛1、2年的總結算的審核報告有提出來謝謝委員注意到這個問題\n\n10:09.409 --> 10:30.603\n謝謝,謝謝審計長就是希望能夠加速指示用要快速退出健保給付這樣健保支援才可以更節省對,對,對好,那接下來我再請教審計長就是本席這邊有一個預算使用的問題想要請教你雖然現在還沒有執行但是希望審計部未來要好好的審計查核那就是國防部軍備局\n\n10:32.164 --> 10:59.121\n預計在明年114年度就是114年到117年總共編了68億5900萬的預算捐助行政法人中科院與民雄西策那邊開發了軍規無人機的產線預計在115年投產那建置這一個航太機無人機的產業園區據說中科院打算委外管理但\n\n10:59.961 --> 11:20.806\n收了廠房的租金提供廠商的進駐那雖然新建了航太無人機產業的園區的目的當然是要落實國防自主但是推動居民技術整合的利益是良善的但問題來了就是經本席瞭解這個產業園區的土地產權管理是政府的\n\n11:21.486 --> 11:38.197\n未來招商是經濟部和嘉義縣政府負責．所有收入卻沒有進國庫．全部歸中科院所有級管理．本席雖然我不是預算專家．我只想請教沈記長．這是不是哪裡怪怪的．\n\n11:38.877 --> 12:08.197\n就是政府用公務的預算出錢出力給中科院結果卻是讓中科院自己成立所謂的專案基金自行管理那沈記長你當過主計總處的副處長現在身為沈記長那你認為透過公務預算捐助的新建的這些園區所有的收入支出的使用是不是要透過中科院私設基金規避國會監督的方式符合預算法的規定嗎\n\n12:09.738 --> 12:27.056\n是不是應該要由國防部來成立一個非營業基金或特收基金的方式這樣才正確呢委員的建議很好我向委員報告主要動用國家資源我們損失部一定管\n\n12:28.566 --> 12:44.639\n所以給委員了解到這樣的一個情況但是怎麼樣讓這一個這個延期能夠最後能夠發展起來他的效益能夠達成用的什麼方法\n\n12:47.322 --> 13:06.118\n這個包括國防部、中科院都要好好的還有行政院都要好好的去思考去建立一個不要這麼複雜的制度這剛剛委員聽完以後我都還沒有搞不容易搞清楚所以制度要讓它越單純我認為單純有效這樣的一個方法但是\n\n13:12.103 --> 13:29.356\n我們審計部只要動用因為這裡面我看起來委員提供的資料裡面有監制的國防部用公益算監制的68億我們這個經費也相當的大我們一定會密切的來注意\n\n13:30.823 --> 13:51.779\n雖然這個中科院民雄航太計無人機產業園區計劃還沒有正式的執行但是本席還是希望審計部未來要好好的審計查核避免公務預算捐助的預算跟安定基金一樣遭到濫用還有挪用那國會還沒有辦法監督的問題可以嗎好我們會提出審計意見謝謝\n\n13:54.568 --> 14:08.246\n那接下來國防部114年度有編列了稅出預算4760億元其中對美軍購M1A2T的戰車還有海馬斯火箭的系統還有\n\n14:09.608 --> 14:15.356\n暗製魚叉的這些飛彈系統．還有採購F-16AV戰機．遠距遙控精準的飛彈等武器．總共有705億元．再加上國防部於109年．還有到115年的編列特別預算有2472億元．\n\n14:28.053 --> 14:43.790\n2億元這樣的金額其實是非常的龐大的但是近年來常遭媒體報導交貨延遲至今留存在美方這些問題所以有關國軍對美軍購執行的情況我想請教沈記長\n\n14:45.411 --> 15:02.766\n國防預算支援有限那國軍歷年編那麼高額的軍購的預算分期按發價書付款給美方目前留在美方的資金有多少然後有多少還沒有交貨的還有國防部有沒有列戰管理呢\n\n15:04.336 --> 15:27.021\n報告員從後面來看這個我們有一定要求他內臟管理這個大概有這樣的目前放在那裡的還沒有交貨的我們查出來匯錢去了還沒有交的有2800多億如果像這個重大經貨這個還未延遲的這裡面包括了這1500多億是還沒有這個是屬於延遲的部分\n\n15:41.535 --> 15:41.556\n好,謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":20.349,"end":23.472,"text":"謝謝院長 有請沈記長李委員好"},{"start":34.52,"end":56.374,"text":"最近勞動部爆發勞發署北分署的前署長 謝宜容涉嫌職場霸凌導致公務員的輕生案漸漸衍生出勞動部濫用就業安定基金從這幾年中央政府總預算案的預算書裡面可以發現就業安定基金的宣傳費竟然連連的增加那111年是1.2億112年是1.5億"},{"start":63.799,"end":86.23,"text":"到113年編列1.7億然後明年的預算編列更是高達2億1700多萬元實在是令人匪夷所思更難以理解從81年起政府為了平衡僱主聘僱移工的衍生的社會成本就依據就業服務法規定對僱主徵收就業安定費"},{"start":87.25,"end":107.166,"text":"而且所有的僱主每個月要繳納就業安定費兩千元給就業安定基金根據資料顯示光是112年度的就業安定基金一整年的收取就業安定費的收入就高達212億多元其中將近三分之一的收入是由聘僱社"},{"start":107.907,"end":125.408,"text":"福的移工的僱主所繳納的．其實這個對長期聘僱．外籍看護工的．私人的家庭．還有跟身心障礙者．是非常沉重的經濟上面的負擔．因此有關就業安定基金．的預算的編列和經費之用．本席想要請教沈記長幾個問題"},{"start":127.967,"end":152.204,"text":"根據救安基金收支的保管．還有運用的辦法規定．救安基金是用來．辦理促進國民的就業．提升勞工的福祉．及處理外國人聘僱管理的事情．結果沒想到．近年來的救安基金．卻遭媒體踢爆被濫用的情勢．包括勞動部及勞動力發展署．濫用救安基金媒體政策機．"},{"start":153.665,"end":171.333,"text":"業務的宣傳費的推廣費．用來舉辦音樂會．還有採購三節的禮品等．明顯就是救安基金的規定．跟救安基金的規定的用途未盡相符．那我們執政黨竟然．濫用安定勞工的社福的預算．變成了政府官員舉辦音樂會．唱歌、養媒體．"},{"start":174.835,"end":202.234,"text":"還有做大內宣．甚至用來裝潢辦公室．還有採購三節的禮品．送禮做人情的不當使用．這對遵守法規．按時繳納就業安定費的．弱勢私人的家庭．來說是情何以堪啊．如此濫用人民的納稅錢．怎麼對得起．廣大的勞工的朋友呢．那請問沈記長．你說這是不是明顯的．浪費公堂啊．"},{"start":203.359,"end":219.097,"text":"他看起來應該不合基金用好那再請問沈記長沈記部有沒有掌握就業安定基金近年來的媒體政策及業務的宣導費及推廣費這些預算的編列及支用的數據呢有"},{"start":221.992,"end":247.107,"text":"剛剛委員講的那個媒體政策及AU先導會的部分就如同委員所講的是逐點增加但是推展會他除了媒體先導會以後以外他也有推展會像推展會113年也有1億3000多萬所以加起來媒體政策先導會加推展會大概也有3億多"},{"start":249.011,"end":277.592,"text":"所以就業安定基金是特別的收入的基金收入的來源是向屁股的移工的僱主徵收來的然後基金主要是用來促進國民就業嘛但剛才那個省紀長也說了那勞動部竟然每年編譯3億多的預算去做政策的宣導還有業務的推廣而且還被踢爆濫權使用那請問省紀長省紀部近年來就業安定基金各項的經費的支用有沒有進行了解還有沒有規劃查核呢"},{"start":278.593,"end":301.89,"text":"有沒有違法還是失職的情勢呢?這些審計部要如何處理呢?有,大概剛剛我也談過他我們收回安基基金他們去衛福規定的租出我們這一兩年收回3億多第二個他這三年短絕了差不多200多億我們也要請勞動部檢討"},{"start":303.531,"end":316.034,"text":"第三個他有的在補助那些長年連續都在違動勞動法令的一些補助三千多萬我們都有要他勞動部好好檢討"},{"start":318.377,"end":344.124,"text":"希望審計部可以為這些所施仁的家庭好好的把關．救安基金的經費的支用．請審計長可以在此承諾．針對安定基金的運用．承諾進行專案的審計．查核近5年來經費的支用的情形．包括過去幾年．是否有沒有作假帳．請審計長後續調查報告．一併提供本席和本院參考．可以嗎"},{"start":345.441,"end":366.237,"text":"好的 因為我們有答應在裁委會的時候有答應委員他們希望能夠他希望我們大家委員也希望我們去查核我們所謂有一經派人去查大概有查了三年委員現在希望我們查五年我們會照委員的意思再增加兩年"},{"start":367.622,"end":370.003,"text":"建保署為了節省藥物的支出每年都會進行藥品的價格的調整根據113年度藥價調整的結果"},{"start":393.767,"end":399.49,"text":"遭到砍價的藥品有4000多項導致部分的藥品原本價格就已經非常低了然後再繼續被砍下去的話藥廠來說其實已經不符合成本了然後都停產了而且這會造成民眾用不到藥而且引發民眾的恐慌所以我想請教沈記長國內過去頻傳有缺藥啊然後缺快篩啊缺輸液啊這些事情甚至可能會危及病人的生命的"},{"start":422.901,"end":439.438,"text":"然後解決缺藥的危機還要花數倍的價錢由不同的國家來進口然後耗費更多的預算根本性的問題就是在於健保藥價政策不當那請問審計部有沒有進行什麼相關的查核呢"},{"start":440.848,"end":469.136,"text":"我們112年有查這個問題大概我們也提出來說這個藥價夠低可能也會造成一些問題所以我們有請健保署好好檢討一下不能造成整個剛剛委員所講的各方面的醫療用品或者藥品都造成切後的問題我們要找到一個合理適當的一個藥價"},{"start":471.616,"end":488.536,"text":"那針對健保改革 沈機長你是否同意我們也先從民眾的自我照顧的概念開始宣導呢因為這個政策就是對於藥品轉類然後讓我們自己國人有自我照護的環境透過這些部分已經安全無虞的藥品"},{"start":489.417,"end":514.218,"text":"然後像處方藥可以轉類指示用藥．並加速指示用藥退出健保．這樣的話就是不會造成．太多的健保上面的負擔．根據統計我國健保制開辦到現在．已經違法給付指示用藥．已經近30年了．據統計2022年健保扔．給付800多項指示用藥．佔健保給付藥物的比例達．"},{"start":517.04,"end":537.775,"text":"27.3%．一級就是說．保給付的藥物中．超過四分之一的項目是違法給付．更耗費了大約20億的公帑．那指示用藥依法本來就是．不屬於建保的給付範圍．但因為建保開辦初期．考量醫生、醫療與民眾就醫的習慣．建保署讓1200餘項的指示藥．暫時繼續以建保給付．"},{"start":544.019,"end":564.375,"text":"所以現在還有801項的指示藥品以健保給付那是不是應該要加速指示用藥就是這些讓這些安全無虞的藥品快速退出健保給付節省健保的資源讓健保資源可以合理的配置呢那請問沈機長你有沒有這方面有沒有進行相關的查核呢謝謝委員"},{"start":566.104,"end":588.476,"text":"我們的審計看法和委員的看法一樣因為這個一千多項一千兩百多項到現在檢討了以後還有八百多項我們有叫他請他是不是加快速度來看看還有哪些可能民眾實在相當"},{"start":589.717,"end":592.958,"text":"需要我用的藥品大概整體叫他們盤一盤大概這個部分我們今年剛剛1、2年的總結算的審核報告有提出來謝謝委員注意到這個問題"},{"start":609.409,"end":630.603,"text":"謝謝,謝謝審計長就是希望能夠加速指示用要快速退出健保給付這樣健保支援才可以更節省對,對,對好,那接下來我再請教審計長就是本席這邊有一個預算使用的問題想要請教你雖然現在還沒有執行但是希望審計部未來要好好的審計查核那就是國防部軍備局"},{"start":632.164,"end":659.121,"text":"預計在明年114年度就是114年到117年總共編了68億5900萬的預算捐助行政法人中科院與民雄西策那邊開發了軍規無人機的產線預計在115年投產那建置這一個航太機無人機的產業園區據說中科院打算委外管理但"},{"start":659.961,"end":680.806,"text":"收了廠房的租金提供廠商的進駐那雖然新建了航太無人機產業的園區的目的當然是要落實國防自主但是推動居民技術整合的利益是良善的但問題來了就是經本席瞭解這個產業園區的土地產權管理是政府的"},{"start":681.486,"end":698.197,"text":"未來招商是經濟部和嘉義縣政府負責．所有收入卻沒有進國庫．全部歸中科院所有級管理．本席雖然我不是預算專家．我只想請教沈記長．這是不是哪裡怪怪的．"},{"start":698.877,"end":728.197,"text":"就是政府用公務的預算出錢出力給中科院結果卻是讓中科院自己成立所謂的專案基金自行管理那沈記長你當過主計總處的副處長現在身為沈記長那你認為透過公務預算捐助的新建的這些園區所有的收入支出的使用是不是要透過中科院私設基金規避國會監督的方式符合預算法的規定嗎"},{"start":729.738,"end":747.056,"text":"是不是應該要由國防部來成立一個非營業基金或特收基金的方式這樣才正確呢委員的建議很好我向委員報告主要動用國家資源我們損失部一定管"},{"start":748.566,"end":764.639,"text":"所以給委員了解到這樣的一個情況但是怎麼樣讓這一個這個延期能夠最後能夠發展起來他的效益能夠達成用的什麼方法"},{"start":767.322,"end":786.118,"text":"這個包括國防部、中科院都要好好的還有行政院都要好好的去思考去建立一個不要這麼複雜的制度這剛剛委員聽完以後我都還沒有搞不容易搞清楚所以制度要讓它越單純我認為單純有效這樣的一個方法但是"},{"start":792.103,"end":809.356,"text":"我們審計部只要動用因為這裡面我看起來委員提供的資料裡面有監制的國防部用公益算監制的68億我們這個經費也相當的大我們一定會密切的來注意"},{"start":810.823,"end":831.779,"text":"雖然這個中科院民雄航太計無人機產業園區計劃還沒有正式的執行但是本席還是希望審計部未來要好好的審計查核避免公務預算捐助的預算跟安定基金一樣遭到濫用還有挪用那國會還沒有辦法監督的問題可以嗎好我們會提出審計意見謝謝"},{"start":834.568,"end":848.246,"text":"那接下來國防部114年度有編列了稅出預算4760億元其中對美軍購M1A2T的戰車還有海馬斯火箭的系統還有"},{"start":849.608,"end":855.356,"text":"暗製魚叉的這些飛彈系統．還有採購F-16AV戰機．遠距遙控精準的飛彈等武器．總共有705億元．再加上國防部於109年．還有到115年的編列特別預算有2472億元．"},{"start":868.053,"end":883.79,"text":"2億元這樣的金額其實是非常的龐大的但是近年來常遭媒體報導交貨延遲至今留存在美方這些問題所以有關國軍對美軍購執行的情況我想請教沈記長"},{"start":885.411,"end":902.766,"text":"國防預算支援有限那國軍歷年編那麼高額的軍購的預算分期按發價書付款給美方目前留在美方的資金有多少然後有多少還沒有交貨的還有國防部有沒有列戰管理呢"},{"start":904.336,"end":927.021,"text":"報告員從後面來看這個我們有一定要求他內臟管理這個大概有這樣的目前放在那裡的還沒有交貨的我們查出來匯錢去了還沒有交的有2800多億如果像這個重大經貨這個還未延遲的這裡面包括了這1500多億是還沒有這個是屬於延遲的部分"},{"start":941.535,"end":941.556,"text":"好,謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":277,"blocks":[["林委員憶君：（15時15分）謝謝院長，有請審計長。"],["主席：麻煩再請陳審計長。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：林委員好。"],["林委員憶君：審計長好。最近勞動部爆發勞發署北分署的前署長謝宜容涉嫌職場霸凌導致公務員的輕生案，間接衍生出勞動部濫用就業安定基金，從這幾年中央政府總預算案的預算書裡面可以發現，就業安定基金的宣傳費竟然連年增加，111年是1.2億、112年是1.5億，到113年編列1.7億，明年的預算編列更是高達兩億一千七百多萬元，實在是令人匪夷所思，更難以理解。從81年起，政府為了平衡雇主聘僱移工衍生的社會成本，就依據就業服務法規定，對雇主徵收就業安定費，而且所有的雇主每個月要繳納就業安定費2,000元給就業安定基金。根據資料顯示，光是112年度就業安定基金一整年收取就業安定費的收入就高達兩百一十二億多元，其中將近三分之一的收入是由聘僱社福移工的雇主所繳納，其實這對長期聘僱外籍看護工的私人家庭跟身心障礙者是經濟上面非常沉重的負擔。","因此，有關就業安定基金預算的編列和經費支用，本席想要請教審計長幾個問題，根據就安基金收支的保管還有運用的辦法規定，就安基金是用來辦理促進國民就業、提升勞工福祉及處理外國人聘僱管理的事情，結果沒想到近年來的就安基金卻遭媒體踢爆被濫用的情事，包括勞動部及勞動力發展署濫用就安基金「媒體政策及業務宣導費」及「推展費」，用來舉辦音樂會，還有採購三節禮品等，明顯跟就安基金規定的用途未盡相符。執政黨竟然濫用安定勞工的社福預算，變成了政府官員舉辦音樂會、唱歌、養媒體及做大內宣，甚至用來裝潢辦公室，還有採購三節禮品來送禮、做人情的不當使用，這對遵守法規、按時繳納就業安定費的弱勢私人家庭來說，是情何以堪啊！如此濫用人民的納稅錢，怎麼對得起廣大的勞工朋友呢？請問審計長，你說這是不是明顯的浪費公帑啊？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：它看起來應該不合基金用途。"],["林委員憶君：好，那再請問審計長，審計部有沒有掌握就業安定基金近年來的「媒體政策及業務宣導費」及「推展費」等這些預算編列及支用數據呢？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：有！剛剛委員講的媒體政策及業務宣導費部分，就如同委員所講的是逐年增加，除了媒體宣導費以外，也有推展費，推展費113年也有一億三千多萬，所以媒體政策宣導費加推展費大概也有三億多。"],["林委員憶君：所以就業安定基金是特別收入基金，收入來源是向聘僱移工的雇主徵收來的，基金主要是用來促進國民就業，但剛才審計長也說了，勞動部竟然每年編列三億多的預算去做政策宣導及業務推廣，而且還被踢爆濫權使用。請問審計長，審計部近年來對就業安定基金各項的經費支用有沒有進行瞭解？還有沒有規劃查核呢？有沒有違法還是失職的情事呢？這些審計部如何處理呢？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：有，剛剛我也談過，依安定基金他們未合規定的支出，我們這一兩年收回三億多；第二個，這三年短絀了差不多兩百多億，我們也要請勞動部檢討；第三個，它有在補助那些長年連續都在違反勞動法令的一些單位，三千多萬，我們都有要勞動部好好檢討。"],["林委員憶君：希望審計部可以為這些私人的家庭好好把關就安基金的經費支用，請審計長可以在此承諾，針對安定基金的運用承諾進行專案的審計，查核近5年來經費的支用情形，包括過去幾年有沒有作假帳，請審計長後續調查報告一併提供本席和本院參考，可以嗎？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：好的，因為我們在財委會的時候有答應委員他們，大家委員也希望我們去查核，我們12月初已經派人去查，大概查了3年，委員現在希望我們查5年，我們會照委員的意思再增加2年。"],["林委員憶君：是，謝謝審計長，因為民進黨已經執政8年了啦，其實差不多5年，這樣你做得到嘛！可以承諾嗎？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：可以、可以，謝謝委員，我們來努力。"],["林委員憶君：謝謝。接下來，長期以來，健保是國人健康保障的重要支柱，健保署為了節省藥物的支出，每年都會進行藥品的價格調整，根據113年度藥價調整的結果，遭到砍價的藥品有四千多項，導致部分的藥品原本價格就已經非常低了，然後再繼續被砍下去的話，對藥廠來說其實已經不符合成本了，然後都停產了，而且這會造成民眾用不到藥，引發民眾的恐慌。所以我想請教審計長，國內過去頻傳有缺藥，然後缺快篩、缺輸液這些事情，甚至可能會危及病人的生命，然後解決缺藥的危機還要花數倍的價錢，由不同的國家來進口，然後耗費更多的預算，根本性的問題就是在於健保藥價政策不當，請問審計部有沒有進行什麼相關的查核呢？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：我們112年有查這個問題，大概我們也提出來說藥價過低可能也會造成一些問題，所以我們有請健保署好好檢討一下，不能造成剛剛委員所講的各方面醫療用品或者藥品都造成缺貨的問題，我們要找到一個合理、適當的藥價。"],["林委員憶君：針對健保改革，審計長，你是否同意我們先從民眾自我照顧的概念開始宣導呢？因為這個政策就是對於藥品轉類，然後讓我們自己國人有自我照護的環境，透過這些已經安全無虞的藥品，然後像處方藥可以轉類指示用藥並加速指示用藥退出健保，這樣的話就不會造成太多健保上面的負擔。根據統計，我國健保制開辦到現在已經違法給付指示用藥近30年了，據統計，2022年健保仍給付八百多項指示用藥，占健保給付藥物的比例達27.3%，亦即健保給付的藥物中，超過四分之一的項目是違法給付，更耗費了大約20億的公帑，指示用藥依法本來就是不屬於健保的給付範圍，但因為健保開辦初期，考量醫生、醫療與民眾就醫的習慣，健保署讓一千兩百餘項的指示藥暫時繼續以健保給付，所以現在還有801項的指示藥品以健保給付，是不是應該要加速指示用藥……就是讓這些安全無虞的藥品快速退出健保給付，節省健保的資源，讓健保資源可以合理配置呢？請問審計長，這方面你有沒有進行相關的查核呢？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：謝謝委員，我們的審計看法和委員的看法一樣，因為這一千兩百多項到現在檢討了以後，還有八百多項，我們有叫它、有請它是不是加快速度來看看還有哪些可能民眾實在相當需要而用的藥品，大概整體叫他們盤一盤，大概這個部分，我們剛剛112年總決算的審核報告有提出來，謝謝委員注意到這個問題。"],["林委員憶君：謝謝審計長，就是希望能夠加速指示用藥快速退出健保給付，這樣健保資源才可以更節省，謝謝。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：對、對。"],["林委員憶君：接下來我再請教審計長，本席這邊有一個預算使用的問題想要請教你，雖然現在還沒有執行，但是希望審計部未來要好好的審計查核，那就是國防部軍備局預計在明年114年度，就是114年到117年總共編了68億5,900萬的預算，捐助行政法人中科院於民雄西側開發軍規無人機的產線，預計在115年投產。建置此航太暨無人機產業園區，據說中科院打算委外管理，但收了廠房租金，提供廠商進駐。雖然興建了航太無人機產業園區的目的當然是要落實國防自主，推動軍民技術整合的立意是良善的，但問題來了，經本席了解，這個產業園區的土地產權管理是政府，但是未來招商是經濟部和嘉義縣政府負責，所有收入卻沒有進國庫，全部歸中科院所有及管理。","本席雖然不是預算的專家，但是我只是想要請教審計長，這是不是哪裡怪怪的？就是政府用公務預算出錢出力給中科院，結果卻是讓中科院自己成立所謂的專案基金自行管理，審計長，你當過主計總處的副處長，現在身為審計長，你認為透過公務預算捐助興建的這些園區，所有收入支出的使用要透過中科院私設基金規避國會監督的方式，符合預算法的規定嗎？是不是應該要由國防部成立一個非營業基金或特收基金的方式，這樣才正確呢？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：委員的建議很好，我向委員報告，只要動用國家資源，審計部一定管，所以給委員了解這樣的情況。但是怎麼樣讓這個園區最後能夠發展起來、它的效益能夠達成、用的什麼方法等，包括國防部、中科院還有行政院都要好好的思考建立一個不要這麼複雜的制度。剛剛聽完委員所說以後，我都還不容易搞清楚，所以制度要讓它越單純，我認為單純、有效這樣的方法，但是審計部只要動用……因為這裡面我看起來委員提供的資料裡面有國防部用公務預算捐助了68億，這個經費也相當大，我們一定會密切注意。"],["林委員憶君：好，雖然這個中科院民雄航太暨無人機產業園區計畫還沒有正式執行，但是本席還是希望審計部未來要好好的審計查核，避免公務預算捐助的預算跟安定基金一樣遭到濫用及挪用，讓國會沒有辦法監督的問題，可以嗎？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：好，我們會提出審計意見。"],["林委員憶君：好，謝謝。接下來，國防部114年度有編列了歲出預算4,760億元，其中對美軍購M1A2T戰車，還有海馬斯火箭的系統、岸置魚叉等這些飛彈系統，採購F-16V戰機、遠距遙控精準飛彈等武器，總共有705億元，再加上國防部於109年到115年還有編列特別預算有2,472億元，這樣的金額其實是非常龐大的，但是近年來常遭媒體報導交貨延遲，資金留存在美方這些問題，所以有關國軍對美軍購的執行情況，我想請教審計長，國防預算資源有限，國軍歷年編那麼高額的軍購預算分期按發價書付款給美方，目前留在美方的資金有多少？然後有多少還沒有交貨的？還有國防部有沒有列帳管理呢？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：報告委員，從後面來看，這個我們一定要求它列帳管理，目前放在那裡還沒有交貨的，我們查出來匯錢去了還沒有交的有兩千八百多億，像這個重大軍購還會延遲的，這裡面包括一千五百多億是屬於延遲交貨的部分。"],["林委員憶君：OK，好，謝謝。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：謝謝林委員，感謝。"],["林委員憶君：謝謝審計長。"],["主席：謝謝林憶君委員的詢問，也謝謝陳審計長的詢答。","接下來登記第4位吳琪銘委員之諮詢以書面提出，請審計部書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員吳琪銘書面諮詢：","一、近年來詐騙猖獗，政府為打擊詐欺遏阻犯罪，於111年7月15日、112年6月9日陸續訂頒「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領」1.0版、1.5版，編列預算14億餘元。據打擊詐欺辦公室公布資料，打擊詐欺策略已有初步成效，112年度全般攔阻及圈存93.79億元，查獲犯罪集團近2千件，查扣不法犯罪所得38.77億元。但詐欺案件仍層出不窮，依據打詐儀表板統計，光113年11月就受理1萬8千多件、財損金額126億元，民眾深受其害。關於政府打擊詐欺政策之推動情形，就教審計長：","(一)審計部已就政府打擊詐欺執行情形辦理專案查核，提出多項審核意見，促請行政院等權責機關研謀改善，並於112年度中央政府總決算審核報告彙編專章揭露。請問行政院及相關機關後續回復辦理情形為何？有無具體成效？","(二)本院已於113年7月三讀通過「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例」等打詐新四法。另行政院於同年8月將行政院打擊詐欺辦公室轉型為行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心，由內政部、國家通訊傳播委員會、數位發展部、金融監督管理委員會、法務部分別負責統籌與相關機關執行「識詐」、「堵詐」、「防詐」、「阻詐」及「懲詐」等5大面向業務，行政院於113年11月28日通過打詐綱領2.0版（114-115年）。","對於詐騙犯罪手法不斷翻新，打詐綱領1.5版已編列預算14億餘元，明年度（114年度）還要編列預算73.5億元。各相關部會究竟有無盡責？為何民怨那麼深，甚至有詐騙受害人因此輕生，審計部應該發揮監督力量，加強查核。請問審計部有無持續規劃查核，查核重點項目有哪些？","二、政府為吸引新南向目標國家旅客來臺觀光及洽商，自105年8月起陸續給予新南向目標國家免簽證、有條件式免簽證等簽證便利措施。111年間新型冠狀病毒肺炎（COVID-19）疫情趨緩，邊境管制鬆綁並恢復簽證便利措施後，外國人入境我國人數逐年增加。又因應國家產業發展需求，政府持續有條件開放外國人來臺工作，根據勞動部公布資料，113年10月底止，產業及社服移工人數（下稱移工人數）81.1萬人，較110年底之66.9萬人，增加14.1萬人。","惟據內政部移民署統計，近年以免簽證及有條件式免簽證方式入境我國之東南亞部分國家旅客，經治安機關查獲在我國非法從事與簽證目的不符活動之人數有日益增多情事，均需要內政部移民署專勤隊費心查緝，而失聯移工又不斷增加，截至113年10月底止，有近9萬失聯移工，但內政部移民署專勤隊人力目前僅5百多人（截至113年10月底534人），人力不足將影響查緝、收容遣送量能。本席想就教審計長以下幾個問題：","(一)現行查獲免簽證及有條件式免簽證方式入境非法從事與簽證目的不符者有多少人？","(二)現行失聯移工哪些國家人數較多？","(三)審計部近年查核情形如何？有無提出相關審核意見？","三、海巡署職掌海岸管制區之管制及安全維護等，負責海域及海岸巡防執法勤務，維護海域安全，扮演第二海軍重要角色，守護國家安全。近期大陸演習頻仍，包括今年5月及10月聯合利劍環臺演習、大陸船舶侵擾我國海域灰色地帶事件頻傳，海巡署多能布署妥適因應，海巡弟兄共同戍守我國海域，確保國家安全，維護國家主權。","政府鑑於海巡勤務日益繁重，逐步增撥員額，海巡署也加強辦理招募活動，包括深耕校園服務、強化網路招募等，及提高海巡部隊加給、新增國軍戰航管官兵勤務加給、制定留營獎勵等措施，強化現職人員留才，但是亦常傳出人員不適應，辦理離退，第一線海巡人力吃緊。本席想就教審計長以下幾個問題：","(一)因應國際情勢緊張，海巡勤務日益繁重，海巡署113年度預算員額編制12,605人，實際進用人員是多少？","(二)媒體常報導人員不適應離退，實際離退情形及原因為何？海巡署有無輔導？審計部有沒有提出相關審計意見？","四、12月4日國道1號湖口路段發生重大車禍，金融及虛幣犯罪調查專家（陳梅慧小姐）不幸身亡，各界質疑案情並不單純，新竹地檢署已啟動偵辦，調閱國道高速公路監視系統等紀錄，用以釐清有關車輛行經軌跡，進行車人分析，輔助案件調查，顯示監視系統等為維護社會安全及輔助調查案件重要工具之一。","據悉現行中央及地方政府為因應業務需要，許多單位都已開發建置車牌辨識系統或電子標籤（eTage）系統，像國道高速公路局為徵收國道通行費委外建置電子收費系統、警政署辦理建構涉案車輛監控查緝網等計畫，於全國重要道路裝設車辨系統，以蒐集行車紀錄資料，並建置系統平台以蒐整分析相關資料等。本席想就教審計長以下幾個問題：","(一)政府各單位建置之車牌辨識系統本來就應該相互可介接，統一運用才能發揮最大效益，為什麼112年度中央政府總決算審核報告【第2冊海洋委員會主管項下重要審核意見第4項揭露（丙-764至767）】，提到海巡署偵防分署為加強執行海域緝毒，建置港區及聯外道路車辨系統，惟尚待介接內政部警政署重要道路車辨系統資源，整合各相關系統使用介面及軌跡資料等意見，海巡署偵防分署為何未積極介接各單位系統，究竟遭遇到什麼困難？","(二)另外現行中央及地方政府為因應業務需要，各自開發建置車牌辨識系統或電子標籤（eTage）系統，就整個政府觀點，所取得資料應該整併讓有法律授權之權責機關，在兼顧民眾隱私的合法及合理範圍查詢運用，才能提升偵辦效能，有效打擊犯罪。對於車牌辨識系統或電子標籤（eTage）系統相互介接，審計長看法如何？"],["主席：接下來，請登記第5號林德福委員詢問。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":432,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-13","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","鍾佳濱","廖先翔","林憶君","吳琪銘","林德福","賴惠員","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","賴士葆"],"page_start":396,"meetingDate":["2024-12-17"],"gazette_id":"1140104","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140104_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第13次會議紀錄","content":"審計長列席報告「中華民國112年度中央政府總決算暨附屬單位決算及綜計表審核報告」審核經\n過並備諮詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1140104_00002"}}}