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00:01:37,190\n因此我就會特別關心這個我們這個科技偵查我們整個法制化之後我們相關的我們法務部幾個相關單位所屬機關的一個一個相關的預算是不是有所變動是不是有因應這個我們目前科技偵查法制化之後相關的這些科技作業科技偵查作業是不是有做這個預算的這些調整以及這個強化\n\n5\n00:01:39,212 --> 00:01:55,105\n我大概簡單先看我們整個這個今年的我們法務部的單位預算以及所屬的包括調查局、廉政署、小政署等等相關的這些這些預算我這今年法務部的預算大概增加了4651萬6千元這是我們這個法務部部本部的這個單位預算\n\n6\n00:02:00,589 --> 00:02:04,212\n第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於法務部主管收支\n\n7\n00:02:20,031 --> 00:02:41,996\n那矯正署的部分我就另外把它列不納入計算,因為矯正署它跟這個科技偵查比較沒有關係,但是它有科技的相關預算,等一下也許有時間的話也會跟省來討論。所以這些相關的這剛剛我講法務部、調查局、聯政署光這三個單位預算,總計增加大概四億三千一百四十七萬。\n\n8\n00:02:43,636 --> 00:03:10,044\n這部分我更加關心的就是說我們這個科技偵查法制化之後法務部主管的有哪一些預算是因為我們這個科技偵查所編列增加編列的啦那增編在哪裡重點是這些新增的預算他的預期的成果預期成效以及他對於打擊犯罪尤其是這個這個在放在我們放在打詐治法裡面我們對於詐騙案件的這個相關的\n\n9\n00:03:11,904 --> 00:03:30,995\n偵查以及相關的這些工作是不是有所幫助,這個大概是我本席今天質詢的重點。部長我剛剛講的這些數字都正確嗎?是。所以我接下來我針對相關的計畫如果是所屬的我就會請所屬的長官上來,部長你就在旁邊一同了解。\n\n10\n00:03:32,176 --> 00:03:49,303\n我想我首先我剛才提到這個增加預算增加最多的大概是調查局調查局這個今年度的預算增加了這個四億九百八十九萬四千元我們陳局長這相關的問題我們就請局長來回答好,委員好局長好\n\n11\n00:04:04,179 --> 00:04:27,451\n我看我們增加的4億多的預算這裡面我注意到有幾個新增編列的計畫而且這新增編列計畫大概也都跟科技偵查有所相關我這邊列出我找出來三個我們三個過去沒有的今年新增列的計畫一個是精進科技偵查計畫\n\n12\n00:04:29,076 --> 00:04:53,370\n第二個是新型網路犯罪智能延期追緝計劃第三個是智慧司法與科技信任環境建構方案計劃這三個應該是新增的計劃對不對?是那這個精進科技偵查計劃我們編列了878萬那這個新型網路犯罪智能延期追緝計劃我們編列了2210萬是\n\n13\n00:04:57,648 --> 00:05:00,952\n智慧司法與科技信任環境建構方案我們編了13979000三項計畫加起來總共這個4486萬那我這個\n\n14\n00:05:14,995 --> 00:05:40,249\n這個這個在我這樣看就是調查局似乎有在在因為這一次的這個科技偵查的法制化之後有在相關的科技偵查的部分有確實有增列的新增的工作跟計畫但是我要了解這些計畫裡面卻有一些有一些實質的內容就比較不了解關於剛所提到第一個精進科技偵查的計畫我看你們其實是一個三年的計畫是不是一個三年的計畫他不是今年單獨的\n\n15\n00:05:42,388 --> 00:05:44,590\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬\n\n16\n00:05:54,414 --> 00:06:09,820\n大概有兩個我比較注意到的第一個就是委辦費啦就是你們委辦希望能夠委託這個大學或學術研究機構就針對人工智慧新興科技建構筆跡輔助鑑識系統的研究費用\n\n17\n00:06:12,441 --> 00:06:13,802\n五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n18\n00:06:35,798 --> 00:06:45,744\n兩百一十六萬八千元來做這個臉部表情辨識軟體的設備在設備及投資的部分對不對這個是對這個是人工智慧的這個鑑識的這個部分\n\n19\n00:06:53,742 --> 00:07:11,812\n相關的見識我關心的是相關的見識包括對於數位簽帳筆記鑑定是不是納入規劃那你們這個見識能力最重要是這樣子未來的見識能力跟他的正確性跟客觀性這才是數位辨識裡面最重要的關鍵你們所期待的成效是什麼樣\n\n20\n00:07:20,137 --> 00:07:47,564\n我們希望就是說能夠在這個鑑識的過程裡面它的有效性還有它的那個效率能夠提高那目前是比較是傾向是用人工的其實面對目前這種新興的這種詐欺的犯罪其實是非常的不足所以我們希望能夠導入這個科技的這個能夠協助對我說具體的像剛剛這些數位簽章或是臉部辨識它對於打詐本身工作在哪一些部分會有所強化\n\n21\n00:07:49,325 --> 00:08:06,076\n稍後那個詐騙的這些簽名啊筆跡啊我們就可以利用這樣子的工具來協助我們來辨識他的真偽他的正確性他的正確性跟客觀性目前有得到肯定還是說你們還是必須要再服以人工複查\n\n22\n00:08:07,025 --> 00:08:28,694\n公務員報告,目前我們在做簽字簽名的鑑定上面,大部分都是用手寫的簽名鑑定,這部分的鑑定率我們的正確率是很高。那是現在現行嗎?那我們新增這個計畫就是為了數位簽名嗎?是,因為我們目前對數位簽名,因為數位簽名跟手寫的簽名它的\n\n23\n00:08:30,094 --> 00:08:35,397\n運筆跟他的比例還有他的作業方式都不一樣。是的,所以這個部分我們就必須要導入一些新的科技方法來輔助我們傳統的方式\n\n24\n00:08:44,702 --> 00:09:03,235\n這部分因為是新增計畫,所以我們還沒有看到計畫的細目,希望在審查預算的時候我們能夠針對這些部分我們來做進一步的了解。當然你另外還有這個新型網路犯罪系統延期計畫,因為時間的關係我沒有辦法跟你一個一個細談,但是我比較,我這裡比較\n\n25\n00:09:04,984 --> 00:09:14,176\n要想要了解的是我剛所談的這個計畫裡面的第三個新增計畫智慧司法與科技信任環境建構方案你們總共花了1397萬這是新增的計畫那你們在這個這個\n\n26\n00:09:21,943 --> 00:09:34,328\n整個計畫內容裡面提到設備投資的部分提到說構置司法聯盟鏈共同驗證平台這個我很好奇因為我沒有聽過司法聯盟鏈這個名詞我是第一次聽到什麼叫司法聯盟鏈\n\n27\n00:09:40,831 --> 00:10:06,429\n共同驗證平台我了解,那什麼叫司法聯盟鏈?你們大概希望提供建設這個平台之後希望提供哪一些這是一個開放的系統嗎?這是一個提供給什麼樣的人使用的一個平台?是,報告委員這個司法聯盟鏈目前是由五個單位組成的一個是司法院、法務部、高檢署、調查局、警政署司法院、法務部對不對?高檢署、調查局、警政署\n\n28\n00:10:10,112 --> 00:10:14,618\n最後一個是什麼?警政署這五個單位組成這個我們會建置這個司法聯盟鏈主要就是為了要確認數位證據的驗證的統一性\n\n29\n00:10:25,407 --> 00:10:43,177\n就是數位證據,數位證據它包括保全啦,數位證據的保全也是有一個問題啦,因為它這個東西是這個,我看我們這個最高法院的判決,對於數位證據,它有確定使用數位證據這個用語。它提到說,它這個數位證據它有無限的可複製性,再來它複製之後無差異性,這複製之後你不知道這東西是複製的還是原件。\n\n30\n00:10:53,841 --> 00:11:04,876\n爭刪內容具無痕跡性製作人具不易確定性內容非屬人類感官可以直接理解像這樣子的這些數位證據的保全證據的保全以及驗證最重要是驗證\n\n31\n00:11:08,140 --> 00:11:10,321\n是的,這個一開始的五個會員會先把我們的數位證據上到這個司法聯盟鏈由他的這個\n\n32\n00:11:34,753 --> 00:12:03,635\n查湊值來確認說他的數位證據並沒有受到污染那未來會希望能夠有更多的司法調查單位甚至律師公會也能夠加入這個司法聯盟的運作大家在法院在檢查這個體系或是司法體系或是檢查體系大家對於數位證據的驗證能夠一致化保持他的一致性然後不會受到污染除了你講的這個司法聯盟鏈之外\n\n33\n00:12:04,773 --> 00:12:10,304\n一般民眾、全民可以共同來利用這樣子建制的平台嗎?\n\n34\n00:12:12,230 --> 00:12:39,473\n目前是沒有但是未來的發展它會有一個查詢平台在你們的預期關鍵成果裡面你們有提到整合規劃存驗證共同平台提供全民容易接近使用區塊鏈的服務它驗證分兩種一種是司法就是這個鏈上面的司法警察單位或是我們去做驗證但另外一個是民眾假設你被搜索了\n\n35\n00:12:39,973 --> 00:12:39,993\n陳局長\n\n36\n00:12:55,254 --> 00:13:20,375\n我們現在這三個新增的計畫這個部分我想本席是為予支持的因為畢竟我們這個科技偵查是這個法制化之後這個納入確實是應該要投入更多的資源將這個科技偵查相關所需要的需求跟我們過去不足的地方因為法制化之後我們可以編列正式的預算我們可以進行精進但這些相關新增的計畫正因為這些計畫是新增的\n\n37\n00:13:23,217 --> 00:13:48,575\n所以我希望這些計畫的執行,這個部分這個局長你負有督導之責,相關最重要是每一個計畫它的預期成果,包括階段性的,三年計畫它今年的階段性目標是什麼?第二年階段性目標是什麼?我在你們的計畫裡面其實沒有看到你們所提的這些具體的階段性目標,具體的目標或階段性的成果。這部分我希望全局長能夠加強督促好不好?是,是,是,謝謝委員,謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n229\t349\t委員早\n22537\t37062\t部長早我想今天我們大概就針對我們法務部及所屬的這些主管的機關的單位預算我們來進行詢答那所以我\n38510\t67451\t本席今天大概所針對的就會是針對我們這些相關的這些預算裡面我所本席所關切的一些部分首先就是因為我們在今年的7月我們通過打詐釋法其中重要的我們在刑事訴訟法的這個特殊強制處分專章裡面我們通過了這些科技偵查法制化的一個相關的作業那相關的立法\n68659\t97190\t因此我就會特別關心這個我們這個科技偵查我們整個法制化之後我們相關的我們法務部幾個相關單位所屬機關的一個一個相關的預算是不是有所變動是不是有因應這個我們目前科技偵查法制化之後相關的這些科技作業科技偵查作業是不是有做這個預算的這些調整以及這個強化\n99212\t115105\t我大概簡單先看我們整個這個今年的我們法務部的單位預算以及所屬的包括調查局、廉政署、小政署等等相關的這些這些預算我這今年法務部的預算大概增加了4651萬6千元這是我們這個法務部部本部的這個單位預算\n120589\t124212\t第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於法務部主管收支\n140031\t161996\t那矯正署的部分我就另外把它列不納入計算,因為矯正署它跟這個科技偵查比較沒有關係,但是它有科技的相關預算,等一下也許有時間的話也會跟省來討論。所以這些相關的這剛剛我講法務部、調查局、聯政署光這三個單位預算,總計增加大概四億三千一百四十七萬。\n163636\t190044\t這部分我更加關心的就是說我們這個科技偵查法制化之後法務部主管的有哪一些預算是因為我們這個科技偵查所編列增加編列的啦那增編在哪裡重點是這些新增的預算他的預期的成果預期成效以及他對於打擊犯罪尤其是這個這個在放在我們放在打詐治法裡面我們對於詐騙案件的這個相關的\n191904\t210995\t偵查以及相關的這些工作是不是有所幫助,這個大概是我本席今天質詢的重點。部長我剛剛講的這些數字都正確嗎?是。所以我接下來我針對相關的計畫如果是所屬的我就會請所屬的長官上來,部長你就在旁邊一同了解。\n212176\t229303\t我想我首先我剛才提到這個增加預算增加最多的大概是調查局調查局這個今年度的預算增加了這個四億九百八十九萬四千元我們陳局長這相關的問題我們就請局長來回答好,委員好局長好\n244179\t267451\t我看我們增加的4億多的預算這裡面我注意到有幾個新增編列的計畫而且這新增編列計畫大概也都跟科技偵查有所相關我這邊列出我找出來三個我們三個過去沒有的今年新增列的計畫一個是精進科技偵查計畫\n269076\t293370\t第二個是新型網路犯罪智能延期追緝計劃第三個是智慧司法與科技信任環境建構方案計劃這三個應該是新增的計劃對不對?是那這個精進科技偵查計劃我們編列了878萬那這個新型網路犯罪智能延期追緝計劃我們編列了2210萬是\n297648\t300952\t智慧司法與科技信任環境建構方案我們編了13979000三項計畫加起來總共這個4486萬那我這個\n314995\t340249\t這個這個在我這樣看就是調查局似乎有在在因為這一次的這個科技偵查的法制化之後有在相關的科技偵查的部分有確實有增列的新增的工作跟計畫但是我要了解這些計畫裡面卻有一些有一些實質的內容就比較不了解關於剛所提到第一個精進科技偵查的計畫我看你們其實是一個三年的計畫是不是一個三年的計畫他不是今年單獨的\n342388\t344590\t三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬\n354414\t369820\t大概有兩個我比較注意到的第一個就是委辦費啦就是你們委辦希望能夠委託這個大學或學術研究機構就針對人工智慧新興科技建構筆跡輔助鑑識系統的研究費用\n372441\t373802\t五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n395798\t405744\t兩百一十六萬八千元來做這個臉部表情辨識軟體的設備在設備及投資的部分對不對這個是對這個是人工智慧的這個鑑識的這個部分\n413742\t431812\t相關的見識我關心的是相關的見識包括對於數位簽帳筆記鑑定是不是納入規劃那你們這個見識能力最重要是這樣子未來的見識能力跟他的正確性跟客觀性這才是數位辨識裡面最重要的關鍵你們所期待的成效是什麼樣\n440137\t467564\t我們希望就是說能夠在這個鑑識的過程裡面它的有效性還有它的那個效率能夠提高那目前是比較是傾向是用人工的其實面對目前這種新興的這種詐欺的犯罪其實是非常的不足所以我們希望能夠導入這個科技的這個能夠協助對我說具體的像剛剛這些數位簽章或是臉部辨識它對於打詐本身工作在哪一些部分會有所強化\n469325\t486076\t稍後那個詐騙的這些簽名啊筆跡啊我們就可以利用這樣子的工具來協助我們來辨識他的真偽他的正確性他的正確性跟客觀性目前有得到肯定還是說你們還是必須要再服以人工複查\n487025\t508694\t公務員報告,目前我們在做簽字簽名的鑑定上面,大部分都是用手寫的簽名鑑定,這部分的鑑定率我們的正確率是很高。那是現在現行嗎?那我們新增這個計畫就是為了數位簽名嗎?是,因為我們目前對數位簽名,因為數位簽名跟手寫的簽名它的\n510094\t515397\t運筆跟他的比例還有他的作業方式都不一樣。是的,所以這個部分我們就必須要導入一些新的科技方法來輔助我們傳統的方式\n524702\t543235\t這部分因為是新增計畫,所以我們還沒有看到計畫的細目,希望在審查預算的時候我們能夠針對這些部分我們來做進一步的了解。當然你另外還有這個新型網路犯罪系統延期計畫,因為時間的關係我沒有辦法跟你一個一個細談,但是我比較,我這裡比較\n544984\t554176\t要想要了解的是我剛所談的這個計畫裡面的第三個新增計畫智慧司法與科技信任環境建構方案你們總共花了1397萬這是新增的計畫那你們在這個這個\n561943\t574328\t整個計畫內容裡面提到設備投資的部分提到說構置司法聯盟鏈共同驗證平台這個我很好奇因為我沒有聽過司法聯盟鏈這個名詞我是第一次聽到什麼叫司法聯盟鏈\n580831\t606429\t共同驗證平台我了解,那什麼叫司法聯盟鏈?你們大概希望提供建設這個平台之後希望提供哪一些這是一個開放的系統嗎?這是一個提供給什麼樣的人使用的一個平台?是,報告委員這個司法聯盟鏈目前是由五個單位組成的一個是司法院、法務部、高檢署、調查局、警政署司法院、法務部對不對?高檢署、調查局、警政署\n610112\t614618\t最後一個是什麼?警政署這五個單位組成這個我們會建置這個司法聯盟鏈主要就是為了要確認數位證據的驗證的統一性\n625407\t643177\t就是數位證據,數位證據它包括保全啦,數位證據的保全也是有一個問題啦,因為它這個東西是這個,我看我們這個最高法院的判決,對於數位證據,它有確定使用數位證據這個用語。它提到說,它這個數位證據它有無限的可複製性,再來它複製之後無差異性,這複製之後你不知道這東西是複製的還是原件。\n653841\t664876\t爭刪內容具無痕跡性製作人具不易確定性內容非屬人類感官可以直接理解像這樣子的這些數位證據的保全證據的保全以及驗證最重要是驗證\n668140\t670321\t是的,這個一開始的五個會員會先把我們的數位證據上到這個司法聯盟鏈由他的這個\n694753\t723635\t查湊值來確認說他的數位證據並沒有受到污染那未來會希望能夠有更多的司法調查單位甚至律師公會也能夠加入這個司法聯盟的運作大家在法院在檢查這個體系或是司法體系或是檢查體系大家對於數位證據的驗證能夠一致化保持他的一致性然後不會受到污染除了你講的這個司法聯盟鏈之外\n724773\t730304\t一般民眾、全民可以共同來利用這樣子建制的平台嗎?\n732230\t759473\t目前是沒有但是未來的發展它會有一個查詢平台在你們的預期關鍵成果裡面你們有提到整合規劃存驗證共同平台提供全民容易接近使用區塊鏈的服務它驗證分兩種一種是司法就是這個鏈上面的司法警察單位或是我們去做驗證但另外一個是民眾假設你被搜索了\n759973\t759993\t陳局長\n775254\t800375\t我們現在這三個新增的計畫這個部分我想本席是為予支持的因為畢竟我們這個科技偵查是這個法制化之後這個納入確實是應該要投入更多的資源將這個科技偵查相關所需要的需求跟我們過去不足的地方因為法制化之後我們可以編列正式的預算我們可以進行精進但這些相關新增的計畫正因為這些計畫是新增的\n803217\t828575\t所以我希望這些計畫的執行,這個部分這個局長你負有督導之責,相關最重要是每一個計畫它的預期成果,包括階段性的,三年計畫它今年的階段性目標是什麼?第二年階段性目標是什麼?我在你們的計畫裡面其實沒有看到你們所提的這些具體的階段性目標,具體的目標或階段性的成果。這部分我希望全局長能夠加強督促好不好?是,是,是,謝謝委員,謝謝。\n","txt":"委員早\n部長早我想今天我們大概就針對我們法務部及所屬的這些主管的機關的單位預算我們來進行詢答那所以我\n本席今天大概所針對的就會是針對我們這些相關的這些預算裡面我所本席所關切的一些部分首先就是因為我們在今年的7月我們通過打詐釋法其中重要的我們在刑事訴訟法的這個特殊強制處分專章裡面我們通過了這些科技偵查法制化的一個相關的作業那相關的立法\n因此我就會特別關心這個我們這個科技偵查我們整個法制化之後我們相關的我們法務部幾個相關單位所屬機關的一個一個相關的預算是不是有所變動是不是有因應這個我們目前科技偵查法制化之後相關的這些科技作業科技偵查作業是不是有做這個預算的這些調整以及這個強化\n我大概簡單先看我們整個這個今年的我們法務部的單位預算以及所屬的包括調查局、廉政署、小政署等等相關的這些這些預算我這今年法務部的預算大概增加了4651萬6千元這是我們這個法務部部本部的這個單位預算\n第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於法務部主管收支\n那矯正署的部分我就另外把它列不納入計算,因為矯正署它跟這個科技偵查比較沒有關係,但是它有科技的相關預算,等一下也許有時間的話也會跟省來討論。所以這些相關的這剛剛我講法務部、調查局、聯政署光這三個單位預算,總計增加大概四億三千一百四十七萬。\n這部分我更加關心的就是說我們這個科技偵查法制化之後法務部主管的有哪一些預算是因為我們這個科技偵查所編列增加編列的啦那增編在哪裡重點是這些新增的預算他的預期的成果預期成效以及他對於打擊犯罪尤其是這個這個在放在我們放在打詐治法裡面我們對於詐騙案件的這個相關的\n偵查以及相關的這些工作是不是有所幫助,這個大概是我本席今天質詢的重點。部長我剛剛講的這些數字都正確嗎?是。所以我接下來我針對相關的計畫如果是所屬的我就會請所屬的長官上來,部長你就在旁邊一同了解。\n我想我首先我剛才提到這個增加預算增加最多的大概是調查局調查局這個今年度的預算增加了這個四億九百八十九萬四千元我們陳局長這相關的問題我們就請局長來回答好,委員好局長好\n我看我們增加的4億多的預算這裡面我注意到有幾個新增編列的計畫而且這新增編列計畫大概也都跟科技偵查有所相關我這邊列出我找出來三個我們三個過去沒有的今年新增列的計畫一個是精進科技偵查計畫\n第二個是新型網路犯罪智能延期追緝計劃第三個是智慧司法與科技信任環境建構方案計劃這三個應該是新增的計劃對不對?是那這個精進科技偵查計劃我們編列了878萬那這個新型網路犯罪智能延期追緝計劃我們編列了2210萬是\n智慧司法與科技信任環境建構方案我們編了13979000三項計畫加起來總共這個4486萬那我這個\n這個這個在我這樣看就是調查局似乎有在在因為這一次的這個科技偵查的法制化之後有在相關的科技偵查的部分有確實有增列的新增的工作跟計畫但是我要了解這些計畫裡面卻有一些有一些實質的內容就比較不了解關於剛所提到第一個精進科技偵查的計畫我看你們其實是一個三年的計畫是不是一個三年的計畫他不是今年單獨的\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬\n大概有兩個我比較注意到的第一個就是委辦費啦就是你們委辦希望能夠委託這個大學或學術研究機構就針對人工智慧新興科技建構筆跡輔助鑑識系統的研究費用\n五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n兩百一十六萬八千元來做這個臉部表情辨識軟體的設備在設備及投資的部分對不對這個是對這個是人工智慧的這個鑑識的這個部分\n相關的見識我關心的是相關的見識包括對於數位簽帳筆記鑑定是不是納入規劃那你們這個見識能力最重要是這樣子未來的見識能力跟他的正確性跟客觀性這才是數位辨識裡面最重要的關鍵你們所期待的成效是什麼樣\n我們希望就是說能夠在這個鑑識的過程裡面它的有效性還有它的那個效率能夠提高那目前是比較是傾向是用人工的其實面對目前這種新興的這種詐欺的犯罪其實是非常的不足所以我們希望能夠導入這個科技的這個能夠協助對我說具體的像剛剛這些數位簽章或是臉部辨識它對於打詐本身工作在哪一些部分會有所強化\n稍後那個詐騙的這些簽名啊筆跡啊我們就可以利用這樣子的工具來協助我們來辨識他的真偽他的正確性他的正確性跟客觀性目前有得到肯定還是說你們還是必須要再服以人工複查\n公務員報告,目前我們在做簽字簽名的鑑定上面,大部分都是用手寫的簽名鑑定,這部分的鑑定率我們的正確率是很高。那是現在現行嗎?那我們新增這個計畫就是為了數位簽名嗎?是,因為我們目前對數位簽名,因為數位簽名跟手寫的簽名它的\n運筆跟他的比例還有他的作業方式都不一樣。是的,所以這個部分我們就必須要導入一些新的科技方法來輔助我們傳統的方式\n這部分因為是新增計畫,所以我們還沒有看到計畫的細目,希望在審查預算的時候我們能夠針對這些部分我們來做進一步的了解。當然你另外還有這個新型網路犯罪系統延期計畫,因為時間的關係我沒有辦法跟你一個一個細談,但是我比較,我這裡比較\n要想要了解的是我剛所談的這個計畫裡面的第三個新增計畫智慧司法與科技信任環境建構方案你們總共花了1397萬這是新增的計畫那你們在這個這個\n整個計畫內容裡面提到設備投資的部分提到說構置司法聯盟鏈共同驗證平台這個我很好奇因為我沒有聽過司法聯盟鏈這個名詞我是第一次聽到什麼叫司法聯盟鏈\n共同驗證平台我了解,那什麼叫司法聯盟鏈?你們大概希望提供建設這個平台之後希望提供哪一些這是一個開放的系統嗎?這是一個提供給什麼樣的人使用的一個平台?是,報告委員這個司法聯盟鏈目前是由五個單位組成的一個是司法院、法務部、高檢署、調查局、警政署司法院、法務部對不對?高檢署、調查局、警政署\n最後一個是什麼?警政署這五個單位組成這個我們會建置這個司法聯盟鏈主要就是為了要確認數位證據的驗證的統一性\n就是數位證據,數位證據它包括保全啦,數位證據的保全也是有一個問題啦,因為它這個東西是這個,我看我們這個最高法院的判決,對於數位證據,它有確定使用數位證據這個用語。它提到說,它這個數位證據它有無限的可複製性,再來它複製之後無差異性,這複製之後你不知道這東西是複製的還是原件。\n爭刪內容具無痕跡性製作人具不易確定性內容非屬人類感官可以直接理解像這樣子的這些數位證據的保全證據的保全以及驗證最重要是驗證\n是的,這個一開始的五個會員會先把我們的數位證據上到這個司法聯盟鏈由他的這個\n查湊值來確認說他的數位證據並沒有受到污染那未來會希望能夠有更多的司法調查單位甚至律師公會也能夠加入這個司法聯盟的運作大家在法院在檢查這個體系或是司法體系或是檢查體系大家對於數位證據的驗證能夠一致化保持他的一致性然後不會受到污染除了你講的這個司法聯盟鏈之外\n一般民眾、全民可以共同來利用這樣子建制的平台嗎?\n目前是沒有但是未來的發展它會有一個查詢平台在你們的預期關鍵成果裡面你們有提到整合規劃存驗證共同平台提供全民容易接近使用區塊鏈的服務它驗證分兩種一種是司法就是這個鏈上面的司法警察單位或是我們去做驗證但另外一個是民眾假設你被搜索了\n陳局長\n我們現在這三個新增的計畫這個部分我想本席是為予支持的因為畢竟我們這個科技偵查是這個法制化之後這個納入確實是應該要投入更多的資源將這個科技偵查相關所需要的需求跟我們過去不足的地方因為法制化之後我們可以編列正式的預算我們可以進行精進但這些相關新增的計畫正因為這些計畫是新增的\n所以我希望這些計畫的執行,這個部分這個局長你負有督導之責,相關最重要是每一個計畫它的預期成果,包括階段性的,三年計畫它今年的階段性目標是什麼?第二年階段性目標是什麼?我在你們的計畫裡面其實沒有看到你們所提的這些具體的階段性目標,具體的目標或階段性的成果。這部分我希望全局長能夠加強督促好不好?是,是,是,謝謝委員,謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.229 --> 00:00.349\n委員早\n\n00:22.537 --> 00:37.062\n部長早我想今天我們大概就針對我們法務部及所屬的這些主管的機關的單位預算我們來進行詢答那所以我\n\n00:38.510 --> 01:07.451\n本席今天大概所針對的就會是針對我們這些相關的這些預算裡面我所本席所關切的一些部分首先就是因為我們在今年的7月我們通過打詐釋法其中重要的我們在刑事訴訟法的這個特殊強制處分專章裡面我們通過了這些科技偵查法制化的一個相關的作業那相關的立法\n\n01:08.659 --> 01:37.190\n因此我就會特別關心這個我們這個科技偵查我們整個法制化之後我們相關的我們法務部幾個相關單位所屬機關的一個一個相關的預算是不是有所變動是不是有因應這個我們目前科技偵查法制化之後相關的這些科技作業科技偵查作業是不是有做這個預算的這些調整以及這個強化\n\n01:39.212 --> 01:55.105\n我大概簡單先看我們整個這個今年的我們法務部的單位預算以及所屬的包括調查局、廉政署、小政署等等相關的這些這些預算我這今年法務部的預算大概增加了4651萬6千元這是我們這個法務部部本部的這個單位預算\n\n02:00.589 --> 02:04.212\n第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於法務部主管收支\n\n02:20.031 --> 02:41.996\n那矯正署的部分我就另外把它列不納入計算,因為矯正署它跟這個科技偵查比較沒有關係,但是它有科技的相關預算,等一下也許有時間的話也會跟省來討論。所以這些相關的這剛剛我講法務部、調查局、聯政署光這三個單位預算,總計增加大概四億三千一百四十七萬。\n\n02:43.636 --> 03:10.044\n這部分我更加關心的就是說我們這個科技偵查法制化之後法務部主管的有哪一些預算是因為我們這個科技偵查所編列增加編列的啦那增編在哪裡重點是這些新增的預算他的預期的成果預期成效以及他對於打擊犯罪尤其是這個這個在放在我們放在打詐治法裡面我們對於詐騙案件的這個相關的\n\n03:11.904 --> 03:30.995\n偵查以及相關的這些工作是不是有所幫助,這個大概是我本席今天質詢的重點。部長我剛剛講的這些數字都正確嗎?是。所以我接下來我針對相關的計畫如果是所屬的我就會請所屬的長官上來,部長你就在旁邊一同了解。\n\n03:32.176 --> 03:49.303\n我想我首先我剛才提到這個增加預算增加最多的大概是調查局調查局這個今年度的預算增加了這個四億九百八十九萬四千元我們陳局長這相關的問題我們就請局長來回答好,委員好局長好\n\n04:04.179 --> 04:27.451\n我看我們增加的4億多的預算這裡面我注意到有幾個新增編列的計畫而且這新增編列計畫大概也都跟科技偵查有所相關我這邊列出我找出來三個我們三個過去沒有的今年新增列的計畫一個是精進科技偵查計畫\n\n04:29.076 --> 04:53.370\n第二個是新型網路犯罪智能延期追緝計劃第三個是智慧司法與科技信任環境建構方案計劃這三個應該是新增的計劃對不對?是那這個精進科技偵查計劃我們編列了878萬那這個新型網路犯罪智能延期追緝計劃我們編列了2210萬是\n\n04:57.648 --> 05:00.952\n智慧司法與科技信任環境建構方案我們編了13979000三項計畫加起來總共這個4486萬那我這個\n\n05:14.995 --> 05:40.249\n這個這個在我這樣看就是調查局似乎有在在因為這一次的這個科技偵查的法制化之後有在相關的科技偵查的部分有確實有增列的新增的工作跟計畫但是我要了解這些計畫裡面卻有一些有一些實質的內容就比較不了解關於剛所提到第一個精進科技偵查的計畫我看你們其實是一個三年的計畫是不是一個三年的計畫他不是今年單獨的\n\n05:42.388 --> 05:44.590\n三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬\n\n05:54.414 --> 06:09.820\n大概有兩個我比較注意到的第一個就是委辦費啦就是你們委辦希望能夠委託這個大學或學術研究機構就針對人工智慧新興科技建構筆跡輔助鑑識系統的研究費用\n\n06:12.441 --> 06:13.802\n五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算\n\n06:35.798 --> 06:45.744\n兩百一十六萬八千元來做這個臉部表情辨識軟體的設備在設備及投資的部分對不對這個是對這個是人工智慧的這個鑑識的這個部分\n\n06:53.742 --> 07:11.812\n相關的見識我關心的是相關的見識包括對於數位簽帳筆記鑑定是不是納入規劃那你們這個見識能力最重要是這樣子未來的見識能力跟他的正確性跟客觀性這才是數位辨識裡面最重要的關鍵你們所期待的成效是什麼樣\n\n07:20.137 --> 07:47.564\n我們希望就是說能夠在這個鑑識的過程裡面它的有效性還有它的那個效率能夠提高那目前是比較是傾向是用人工的其實面對目前這種新興的這種詐欺的犯罪其實是非常的不足所以我們希望能夠導入這個科技的這個能夠協助對我說具體的像剛剛這些數位簽章或是臉部辨識它對於打詐本身工作在哪一些部分會有所強化\n\n07:49.325 --> 08:06.076\n稍後那個詐騙的這些簽名啊筆跡啊我們就可以利用這樣子的工具來協助我們來辨識他的真偽他的正確性他的正確性跟客觀性目前有得到肯定還是說你們還是必須要再服以人工複查\n\n08:07.025 --> 08:28.694\n公務員報告,目前我們在做簽字簽名的鑑定上面,大部分都是用手寫的簽名鑑定,這部分的鑑定率我們的正確率是很高。那是現在現行嗎?那我們新增這個計畫就是為了數位簽名嗎?是,因為我們目前對數位簽名,因為數位簽名跟手寫的簽名它的\n\n08:30.094 --> 08:35.397\n運筆跟他的比例還有他的作業方式都不一樣。是的,所以這個部分我們就必須要導入一些新的科技方法來輔助我們傳統的方式\n\n08:44.702 --> 09:03.235\n這部分因為是新增計畫,所以我們還沒有看到計畫的細目,希望在審查預算的時候我們能夠針對這些部分我們來做進一步的了解。當然你另外還有這個新型網路犯罪系統延期計畫,因為時間的關係我沒有辦法跟你一個一個細談,但是我比較,我這裡比較\n\n09:04.984 --> 09:14.176\n要想要了解的是我剛所談的這個計畫裡面的第三個新增計畫智慧司法與科技信任環境建構方案你們總共花了1397萬這是新增的計畫那你們在這個這個\n\n09:21.943 --> 09:34.328\n整個計畫內容裡面提到設備投資的部分提到說構置司法聯盟鏈共同驗證平台這個我很好奇因為我沒有聽過司法聯盟鏈這個名詞我是第一次聽到什麼叫司法聯盟鏈\n\n09:40.831 --> 10:06.429\n共同驗證平台我了解,那什麼叫司法聯盟鏈?你們大概希望提供建設這個平台之後希望提供哪一些這是一個開放的系統嗎?這是一個提供給什麼樣的人使用的一個平台?是,報告委員這個司法聯盟鏈目前是由五個單位組成的一個是司法院、法務部、高檢署、調查局、警政署司法院、法務部對不對?高檢署、調查局、警政署\n\n10:10.112 --> 10:14.618\n最後一個是什麼?警政署這五個單位組成這個我們會建置這個司法聯盟鏈主要就是為了要確認數位證據的驗證的統一性\n\n10:25.407 --> 10:43.177\n就是數位證據,數位證據它包括保全啦,數位證據的保全也是有一個問題啦,因為它這個東西是這個,我看我們這個最高法院的判決,對於數位證據,它有確定使用數位證據這個用語。它提到說,它這個數位證據它有無限的可複製性,再來它複製之後無差異性,這複製之後你不知道這東西是複製的還是原件。\n\n10:53.841 --> 11:04.876\n爭刪內容具無痕跡性製作人具不易確定性內容非屬人類感官可以直接理解像這樣子的這些數位證據的保全證據的保全以及驗證最重要是驗證\n\n11:08.140 --> 11:10.321\n是的,這個一開始的五個會員會先把我們的數位證據上到這個司法聯盟鏈由他的這個\n\n11:34.753 --> 12:03.635\n查湊值來確認說他的數位證據並沒有受到污染那未來會希望能夠有更多的司法調查單位甚至律師公會也能夠加入這個司法聯盟的運作大家在法院在檢查這個體系或是司法體系或是檢查體系大家對於數位證據的驗證能夠一致化保持他的一致性然後不會受到污染除了你講的這個司法聯盟鏈之外\n\n12:04.773 --> 12:10.304\n一般民眾、全民可以共同來利用這樣子建制的平台嗎?\n\n12:12.230 --> 12:39.473\n目前是沒有但是未來的發展它會有一個查詢平台在你們的預期關鍵成果裡面你們有提到整合規劃存驗證共同平台提供全民容易接近使用區塊鏈的服務它驗證分兩種一種是司法就是這個鏈上面的司法警察單位或是我們去做驗證但另外一個是民眾假設你被搜索了\n\n12:39.973 --> 12:39.993\n陳局長\n\n12:55.254 --> 13:20.375\n我們現在這三個新增的計畫這個部分我想本席是為予支持的因為畢竟我們這個科技偵查是這個法制化之後這個納入確實是應該要投入更多的資源將這個科技偵查相關所需要的需求跟我們過去不足的地方因為法制化之後我們可以編列正式的預算我們可以進行精進但這些相關新增的計畫正因為這些計畫是新增的\n\n13:23.217 --> 13:48.575\n所以我希望這些計畫的執行,這個部分這個局長你負有督導之責,相關最重要是每一個計畫它的預期成果,包括階段性的,三年計畫它今年的階段性目標是什麼?第二年階段性目標是什麼?我在你們的計畫裡面其實沒有看到你們所提的這些具體的階段性目標,具體的目標或階段性的成果。這部分我希望全局長能夠加強督促好不好?是,是,是,謝謝委員,謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.229,"end":0.349,"text":"委員早"},{"start":22.537,"end":37.062,"text":"部長早我想今天我們大概就針對我們法務部及所屬的這些主管的機關的單位預算我們來進行詢答那所以我"},{"start":38.51,"end":67.451,"text":"本席今天大概所針對的就會是針對我們這些相關的這些預算裡面我所本席所關切的一些部分首先就是因為我們在今年的7月我們通過打詐釋法其中重要的我們在刑事訴訟法的這個特殊強制處分專章裡面我們通過了這些科技偵查法制化的一個相關的作業那相關的立法"},{"start":68.659,"end":97.19,"text":"因此我就會特別關心這個我們這個科技偵查我們整個法制化之後我們相關的我們法務部幾個相關單位所屬機關的一個一個相關的預算是不是有所變動是不是有因應這個我們目前科技偵查法制化之後相關的這些科技作業科技偵查作業是不是有做這個預算的這些調整以及這個強化"},{"start":99.212,"end":115.105,"text":"我大概簡單先看我們整個這個今年的我們法務部的單位預算以及所屬的包括調查局、廉政署、小政署等等相關的這些這些預算我這今年法務部的預算大概增加了4651萬6千元這是我們這個法務部部本部的這個單位預算"},{"start":120.589,"end":124.212,"text":"第二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於法務部主管收支"},{"start":140.031,"end":161.996,"text":"那矯正署的部分我就另外把它列不納入計算,因為矯正署它跟這個科技偵查比較沒有關係,但是它有科技的相關預算,等一下也許有時間的話也會跟省來討論。所以這些相關的這剛剛我講法務部、調查局、聯政署光這三個單位預算,總計增加大概四億三千一百四十七萬。"},{"start":163.636,"end":190.044,"text":"這部分我更加關心的就是說我們這個科技偵查法制化之後法務部主管的有哪一些預算是因為我們這個科技偵查所編列增加編列的啦那增編在哪裡重點是這些新增的預算他的預期的成果預期成效以及他對於打擊犯罪尤其是這個這個在放在我們放在打詐治法裡面我們對於詐騙案件的這個相關的"},{"start":191.904,"end":210.995,"text":"偵查以及相關的這些工作是不是有所幫助,這個大概是我本席今天質詢的重點。部長我剛剛講的這些數字都正確嗎?是。所以我接下來我針對相關的計畫如果是所屬的我就會請所屬的長官上來,部長你就在旁邊一同了解。"},{"start":212.176,"end":229.303,"text":"我想我首先我剛才提到這個增加預算增加最多的大概是調查局調查局這個今年度的預算增加了這個四億九百八十九萬四千元我們陳局長這相關的問題我們就請局長來回答好,委員好局長好"},{"start":244.179,"end":267.451,"text":"我看我們增加的4億多的預算這裡面我注意到有幾個新增編列的計畫而且這新增編列計畫大概也都跟科技偵查有所相關我這邊列出我找出來三個我們三個過去沒有的今年新增列的計畫一個是精進科技偵查計畫"},{"start":269.076,"end":293.37,"text":"第二個是新型網路犯罪智能延期追緝計劃第三個是智慧司法與科技信任環境建構方案計劃這三個應該是新增的計劃對不對?是那這個精進科技偵查計劃我們編列了878萬那這個新型網路犯罪智能延期追緝計劃我們編列了2210萬是"},{"start":297.648,"end":300.952,"text":"智慧司法與科技信任環境建構方案我們編了13979000三項計畫加起來總共這個4486萬那我這個"},{"start":314.995,"end":340.249,"text":"這個這個在我這樣看就是調查局似乎有在在因為這一次的這個科技偵查的法制化之後有在相關的科技偵查的部分有確實有增列的新增的工作跟計畫但是我要了解這些計畫裡面卻有一些有一些實質的內容就比較不了解關於剛所提到第一個精進科技偵查的計畫我看你們其實是一個三年的計畫是不是一個三年的計畫他不是今年單獨的"},{"start":342.388,"end":344.59,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬"},{"start":354.414,"end":369.82,"text":"大概有兩個我比較注意到的第一個就是委辦費啦就是你們委辦希望能夠委託這個大學或學術研究機構就針對人工智慧新興科技建構筆跡輔助鑑識系統的研究費用"},{"start":372.441,"end":373.802,"text":"五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":395.798,"end":405.744,"text":"兩百一十六萬八千元來做這個臉部表情辨識軟體的設備在設備及投資的部分對不對這個是對這個是人工智慧的這個鑑識的這個部分"},{"start":413.742,"end":431.812,"text":"相關的見識我關心的是相關的見識包括對於數位簽帳筆記鑑定是不是納入規劃那你們這個見識能力最重要是這樣子未來的見識能力跟他的正確性跟客觀性這才是數位辨識裡面最重要的關鍵你們所期待的成效是什麼樣"},{"start":440.137,"end":467.564,"text":"我們希望就是說能夠在這個鑑識的過程裡面它的有效性還有它的那個效率能夠提高那目前是比較是傾向是用人工的其實面對目前這種新興的這種詐欺的犯罪其實是非常的不足所以我們希望能夠導入這個科技的這個能夠協助對我說具體的像剛剛這些數位簽章或是臉部辨識它對於打詐本身工作在哪一些部分會有所強化"},{"start":469.325,"end":486.076,"text":"稍後那個詐騙的這些簽名啊筆跡啊我們就可以利用這樣子的工具來協助我們來辨識他的真偽他的正確性他的正確性跟客觀性目前有得到肯定還是說你們還是必須要再服以人工複查"},{"start":487.025,"end":508.694,"text":"公務員報告,目前我們在做簽字簽名的鑑定上面,大部分都是用手寫的簽名鑑定,這部分的鑑定率我們的正確率是很高。那是現在現行嗎?那我們新增這個計畫就是為了數位簽名嗎?是,因為我們目前對數位簽名,因為數位簽名跟手寫的簽名它的"},{"start":510.094,"end":515.397,"text":"運筆跟他的比例還有他的作業方式都不一樣。是的,所以這個部分我們就必須要導入一些新的科技方法來輔助我們傳統的方式"},{"start":524.702,"end":543.235,"text":"這部分因為是新增計畫,所以我們還沒有看到計畫的細目,希望在審查預算的時候我們能夠針對這些部分我們來做進一步的了解。當然你另外還有這個新型網路犯罪系統延期計畫,因為時間的關係我沒有辦法跟你一個一個細談,但是我比較,我這裡比較"},{"start":544.984,"end":554.176,"text":"要想要了解的是我剛所談的這個計畫裡面的第三個新增計畫智慧司法與科技信任環境建構方案你們總共花了1397萬這是新增的計畫那你們在這個這個"},{"start":561.943,"end":574.328,"text":"整個計畫內容裡面提到設備投資的部分提到說構置司法聯盟鏈共同驗證平台這個我很好奇因為我沒有聽過司法聯盟鏈這個名詞我是第一次聽到什麼叫司法聯盟鏈"},{"start":580.831,"end":606.429,"text":"共同驗證平台我了解,那什麼叫司法聯盟鏈?你們大概希望提供建設這個平台之後希望提供哪一些這是一個開放的系統嗎?這是一個提供給什麼樣的人使用的一個平台?是,報告委員這個司法聯盟鏈目前是由五個單位組成的一個是司法院、法務部、高檢署、調查局、警政署司法院、法務部對不對?高檢署、調查局、警政署"},{"start":610.112,"end":614.618,"text":"最後一個是什麼?警政署這五個單位組成這個我們會建置這個司法聯盟鏈主要就是為了要確認數位證據的驗證的統一性"},{"start":625.407,"end":643.177,"text":"就是數位證據,數位證據它包括保全啦,數位證據的保全也是有一個問題啦,因為它這個東西是這個,我看我們這個最高法院的判決,對於數位證據,它有確定使用數位證據這個用語。它提到說,它這個數位證據它有無限的可複製性,再來它複製之後無差異性,這複製之後你不知道這東西是複製的還是原件。"},{"start":653.841,"end":664.876,"text":"爭刪內容具無痕跡性製作人具不易確定性內容非屬人類感官可以直接理解像這樣子的這些數位證據的保全證據的保全以及驗證最重要是驗證"},{"start":668.14,"end":670.321,"text":"是的,這個一開始的五個會員會先把我們的數位證據上到這個司法聯盟鏈由他的這個"},{"start":694.753,"end":723.635,"text":"查湊值來確認說他的數位證據並沒有受到污染那未來會希望能夠有更多的司法調查單位甚至律師公會也能夠加入這個司法聯盟的運作大家在法院在檢查這個體系或是司法體系或是檢查體系大家對於數位證據的驗證能夠一致化保持他的一致性然後不會受到污染除了你講的這個司法聯盟鏈之外"},{"start":724.773,"end":730.304,"text":"一般民眾、全民可以共同來利用這樣子建制的平台嗎?"},{"start":732.23,"end":759.473,"text":"目前是沒有但是未來的發展它會有一個查詢平台在你們的預期關鍵成果裡面你們有提到整合規劃存驗證共同平台提供全民容易接近使用區塊鏈的服務它驗證分兩種一種是司法就是這個鏈上面的司法警察單位或是我們去做驗證但另外一個是民眾假設你被搜索了"},{"start":759.973,"end":759.993,"text":"陳局長"},{"start":775.254,"end":800.375,"text":"我們現在這三個新增的計畫這個部分我想本席是為予支持的因為畢竟我們這個科技偵查是這個法制化之後這個納入確實是應該要投入更多的資源將這個科技偵查相關所需要的需求跟我們過去不足的地方因為法制化之後我們可以編列正式的預算我們可以進行精進但這些相關新增的計畫正因為這些計畫是新增的"},{"start":803.217,"end":828.575,"text":"所以我希望這些計畫的執行,這個部分這個局長你負有督導之責,相關最重要是每一個計畫它的預期成果,包括階段性的,三年計畫它今年的階段性目標是什麼?第二年階段性目標是什麼?我在你們的計畫裡面其實沒有看到你們所提的這些具體的階段性目標,具體的目標或階段性的成果。這部分我希望全局長能夠加強督促好不好?是,是,是,謝謝委員,謝謝。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1096,"blocks":[["沈委員發惠：（10時14分）主席，先麻煩鄭部長。"],["主席：請鄭部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員早。"],["沈委員發惠：部長早。今天我們對法務部及所屬主管機關單位預算進行詢答，所以本席所針對的是相關預算裡面本席所關切的一些部分。首先，因為我們今年7月通過打詐四法，其中重要的是，在刑事訴訟法的特殊強制處分專章裡面，我們通過了科技偵查法制化相關立法，因此我就會特別關心科技偵查法制化之後，法務部相關單位所屬機關的相關預算是不是有所變動，是不是有因應法制化之後在相關科技偵查作業，做預算的調整及強化。我大概簡單先看今年法務部的單位預算，以及所屬的部分，包括調查局、廉政署、矯正署等等的相關預算，今年法務部的預算大概增加了4,651萬6,000元，這是法務部部本部的單位預算；調查局的單位預算增加最多，增加了4億989萬4,000元；廉政署的部分減少了2,493萬3,000元。矯正署的部分，我就不納入計算，因為矯正署跟科技偵查比較沒有關係，但是它有科技的相關預算，等一下也許有時間的話，也會跟署長來討論。剛剛我講的法務部、調查局、廉政署，光這三個單位，預算總計增加4億3,147萬7,000元，本席要關心的是科技偵查法制化之後，法務部主管的有哪一些預算是因為科技偵查所增加編列的？增編在哪裡？重點是這些新增預算的預期成果、預期成效，以及對於打擊犯罪，尤其是放在打詐四法裡面，關於詐騙案件的偵查及相關工作是不是有所幫助，這是本席今天質詢的重點。部長，我剛剛所講的這些數字都是正確的嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：是。"],["沈委員發惠：好。所以我接下來針對相關的計畫質詢，如果講到所屬單位，請所屬單位的長官上來，部長，你就在旁邊一同瞭解。首先，我剛才提到預算增加最多的是調查局，調查局今年度的預算增加了4億989萬4,000元，請陳局長就相關問題來回答。"],["陳局長白立：委員好。"],["沈委員發惠：局長好，增加四億多預算，我注意到有幾個新增編列的計畫，而且新增編列計畫大概也都跟科技偵查有所相關，我找出來三個過去沒有今年新增列的計畫，第一個是精進科技偵查計畫；第二個是新型網路犯罪智能研析追緝計畫；第三個是智慧司法與科技信任環境建構方案計畫，這三個應該是新增的計畫，對不對？"],["陳局長白立：是。"],["沈委員發惠：精進科技偵查計畫編列了878萬1,000元；新型網路犯罪智能研析追緝計畫編列了2,210萬元，智慧司法與科技信任的環境建構方案編了1,397萬9,000元，三項計畫加起來，總共是4,486萬元。"],["陳局長白立：是。"],["沈委員發惠：對吧？"],["陳局長白立：是。"],["沈委員發惠：我這樣看，調查局似乎有在這一次科技偵查法制化之後，在相關的科技偵查的部分，確實有增列了新增的工作跟計畫，但是這些計畫裡面有一些實質的內容，我就比較不瞭解。關於剛剛所提到的第一個精進科技偵查的計畫，我看其實是一個三年的計畫，不是今年單獨的，是一個三年的計畫，今年是第一年，對不對？"],["陳局長白立：是。"],["沈委員發惠：是不是？局長。"],["陳局長白立：是。"],["沈委員發惠：在今年的計畫裡面，我看到你們預算書裡面提到，有兩個我注意到的，第一個就是委辦費，就是你們希望委託大學或學術研究機構，針對人工智慧新興科技建構筆跡輔助建置系統的研究費用。"],["陳局長白立：是。這個部分，我們希望導入一些AI的技術，來協助……"],["沈委員發惠：我看起來筆跡鑑定主要是針對數位簽名、數位簽章，是不是？"],["陳局長白立：是。"],["沈委員發惠：是不是針對數位簽章的相關部分？"],["陳局長白立：是。"],["沈委員發惠：這個部分你們有委辦。","另外，你們在設備及投資部分，投資了216萬8,000元做臉部表情辨識軟體的設備，對不對？"],["陳局長白立：對。這個是人工智慧鑑識的部分。"],["沈委員發惠：我關心的是，相關的建置包括數位簽章的筆跡鑑定是不是納入規劃，最重要的是未來的鑑識能力跟正確性……"],["陳局長白立：我們是希望能夠加速。"],["沈委員發惠：正確性跟客觀性才是數位鑑識裡面最重要的關鍵。"],["陳局長白立：是。"],["沈委員發惠：那你們所期待的成效是什麼樣？"],["陳局長白立：我們希望能夠在鑑識的過程裡面，有效性和效率能夠提高。目前我是比較傾向用人工的，其實面對目前這種新興的詐欺犯罪是非常不足，所以我們希望能夠導入科技，能夠協助鑑識。"],["沈委員發惠：所以我說具體的，像剛剛說的數位簽章，或者是臉部辨識，對於打詐本身，工作在哪一些部分會有所強化？"],["陳局長白立：對於詐騙的簽名、筆跡，我們就可以運用這樣子的工具協助我們來辨識真偽。"],["沈委員發惠：它的正確性和客觀性，目前有得到肯定，還是說，你們還是必須要輔以人工複查？"],["顏處長成安：跟委員報告，目前我們在做簽名的鑑定上面，大部分都是用手寫的簽名鑑定，這部分的鑑定率的正確率是滿高的。"],["沈委員發惠：那是現行的？"],["顏處長成安：是。"],["沈委員發惠：新增這個計畫，就是為了數位簽名嘛！"],["顏處長成安：是。因為數位簽名跟手寫的簽名在運筆跟作業方式都不一樣。"],["沈委員發惠：不一樣，我們自己使用信用卡電子簽名的時候，我們都知道簽下去的字跟我們平常的字不一樣。"],["顏處長成安：是的。所以這個部分我們就必須要導入一些新的科技方法，來輔助我們傳統的方式。"],["沈委員發惠：這部分因為是新增計畫，所以我們還沒有看到計畫的細目，我希望在審查預算的時候，能夠針對這些部分，來做進一步的瞭解。另外還有新型網路犯罪系統智能研析計畫，因為時間的關係，我沒有辦法跟你一個一個細談，但是我比較想要瞭解的是我剛剛所談的第三個新增計畫「智慧司法與科技信任環境建構方案計畫」，你們總共花了1,397萬，這個也是新增的計畫，內容提到設備投資的部分，提到購置司法聯盟鏈共同驗證平臺，這個我很好奇，因為我沒有聽過「司法聯盟鏈」這個名詞，我是第一次聽到，什麼叫司法聯盟鏈？共同驗證平臺我瞭解，什麼叫司法聯盟鏈？你們建置這個平臺之後，希望提供哪一些？這是一個開放的系統，是提供給什麼樣的人使用？"],["張處長尤仁：是。報告委員，司法聯盟鏈目前是由五個單位組成的，是司法院、法務部、高檢署、調查局跟警政署……"],["沈委員發惠：司法院、法務部……"],["張處長尤仁：高檢署、調查局、警政署。"],["沈委員發惠：最後一個是什麼？"],["張處長尤仁：警政署。"],["沈委員發惠：警政署？"],["張處長尤仁：對。由這五個單位組成，我們會建置司法聯盟鏈，主要就是為了確認數位證據驗證的同一性。"],["沈委員發惠：包括數位證據保全，數位證據的保全也是有一個問題，我看最高法院的判決，對於數位證據和確立使用「數位證據」這個用語，提到數位證據有無限的可複製性，以及複製之後無差異性，複製之後你不曉得這個東西是複製的還是原件。增刪內容具無痕跡性，製作人具不易確定性，內容非屬人類感官可以直接理解，像這樣子數位證據的保全及驗證，最重要的是驗證，你們現在花了1,397萬建置這個平臺，未來是讓你剛剛所講的這些司法單位，大家都可以共同使用這個平台來驗證，共同將他們所取得的這些數位證據，納入到這個平台裡面嗎？"],["張處長尤仁：是的。一開始的五個會員會先把我們的數位證據上到司法聯盟鏈，由它的雜湊值來確認數位證據並沒有受到污染，未來我們希望能夠有更多的司法調查單位，甚至律師公會，也能夠加入這個司法聯盟鏈的運作，大家在檢察體系、司法體系或警察體系，對於數位證據的驗證，能夠一致化，保持一致性，然後不會受到污染。"],["沈委員發惠：你講的這個司法聯盟鏈，一般民眾可以共同來利用這樣子的平臺嗎？"],["張處長尤仁：目前是沒有，但是未來的發展會有一個查詢平臺。"],["沈委員發惠：在你們的預期關鍵成果裡面，你們有提到整合規劃純驗證共同平臺，提供全民容易接近使用區塊鏈的服務。"],["張處長尤仁：驗證分兩種，一種就是這個鏈上面的司法檢察單位，或是我們去做驗證；另外一個是民眾如果被搜索了，也可以用這個鏈上去驗證有哪些東西是被搜索的，會在上面得到一個驗證，但是這兩個的使用方式是不一樣的。"],["沈委員發惠：好，我請陳局長。你們現在已經有三個新增的計畫，這個部分本席給予支持……"],["陳局長白立：是，謝謝委員。"],["沈委員發惠：畢竟科技偵查法制化之後，確實是應該要投入更多的資源，將科技偵查的需求，跟我們過去不足的地方，因為法制化之後，我們會編列正式的預算，可以進行精進，但是這些新增的計畫，正因為這些計畫是新增的，所以我希望這些計畫的執行，局長負有督導之責，最重要的是每一個計畫的預期成果，包括階段性的三年計畫，今年的階段性目標是什麼，第二年階段性目標是什麼，我在你們的計畫裡面，其實沒有看到你們所提的具體的目標或階段性的成果。這個部分，我希望陳局長能夠加強督促，好不好？"],["陳局長白立：是。"],["沈委員發惠：好，謝謝。"],["陳局長白立：謝謝委員。"],["主席：現在請林思銘委員、林思銘委員，林思銘委員不在。","接下來請鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員不在。","接下來請吳思瑤委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":424,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-20","speakers":["吳宗憲","莊瑞雄","黃國昌","陳俊宇","沈發惠","吳思瑤","羅智強","翁曉玲","鍾佳濱","洪孟楷","葉元之","楊瓊瓔","林思銘"],"page_start":127,"meetingDate":["2024-12-19"],"gazette_id":"1140905","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140905_00003","1140905_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於法務部及所屬主管收支部分；二、審查114年度中央政府\n總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於法務部主管「法務部矯正機關作業基金」收支部分；三、\n審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於法務部主管「毒品防制基金」收支\n部分；四、審查法務部函送財團法人臺灣更生保護會、財團法人福建更生保護會及財團法人犯罪\n被害人保護協會114年度預算書案；五、併案審查(一)委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「外役監條例第四\n條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員王世堅等19人擬具「外役監條例第四條及第二十一條條文修正草\n案」案、(三)委員陳玉珍等19人擬具「外役監條例第四條條文修正草案」案；六、繼續審查114\n年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分【第一案至第四案僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1140905_00002"}}}