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{\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 463.387, \"end\": 463.627, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"洗\", \"start\": 463.627, \"end\": 464.027, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 464.027, \"end\": 464.247, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"治\", \"start\": 464.247, \"end\": 465.067, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 465.067, \"end\": 465.268, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 465.268, \"end\": 465.468, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 465.468, \"end\": 466.268, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"淪\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 466.268, \"end\": 466.448, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"空\", \"start\": 466.448, \"end\": 466.468, \"score\": 0.693}, {\"word\": \"談\"}]}, {\"start\": 468.188, \"end\": 470.01, \"text\": \"有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 468.188, \"end\": 468.208, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 468.208, \"end\": 468.288, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"融\", \"start\": 468.288, \"end\": 468.348, \"score\": 0.661}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"督\", \"start\": 468.348, \"end\": 468.368, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 468.368, \"end\": 468.508, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 468.508, \"end\": 468.548, \"score\": 0.44}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 468.548, \"end\": 468.568, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 468.568, \"end\": 468.668, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 468.668, \"end\": 468.689, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 468.689, \"end\": 468.709, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 468.709, \"end\": 468.829, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"存\", \"start\": 468.829, \"end\": 468.929, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"款\", \"start\": 468.929, \"end\": 468.949, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 468.949, \"end\": 468.969, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"險\"}, {\"word\": \"股\", \"start\": 468.969, \"end\": 469.089, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"份\", \"start\": 469.089, \"end\": 469.109, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 469.109, \"end\": 469.129, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 469.129, \"end\": 469.169, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"融\", \"start\": 469.169, \"end\": 469.269, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"督\", \"start\": 469.269, \"end\": 469.289, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 469.289, \"end\": 469.309, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 469.309, \"end\": 469.329, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 469.329, \"end\": 469.349, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 469.349, \"end\": 469.389, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 469.389, \"end\": 469.429, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 469.429, \"end\": 469.449, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 469.449, \"end\": 469.569, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"存\", \"start\": 469.569, \"end\": 469.709, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"款\", \"start\": 469.709, \"end\": 469.89, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 469.89, \"end\": 469.91, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"險\"}, {\"word\": \"股\", \"start\": 469.91, \"end\": 469.99, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"份\", \"start\": 469.99, \"end\": 470.01, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 485.748, \"end\": 509.42, \"text\": \"金融機構接下去為了國際競爭大概都會開始陸陸續續的合併現在的星光要被併但是後來賀蘭才發現這兩個銀行都沒有工會他們現在成立了現在在成立這是很奇怪的事也就是說我們看了全金聯他們的企業工會目前只有37家所以不是每個銀行都有工會是嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 485.748, \"end\": 485.888, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"融\", \"start\": 485.888, \"end\": 486.668, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"構\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 486.668, \"end\": 486.829, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 486.829, \"end\": 487.089, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 487.089, \"end\": 487.429, \"score\": 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\"start\": 504.597, \"end\": 504.918, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 504.918, \"end\": 505.798, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"企\", \"start\": 505.798, \"end\": 506.058, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 506.058, \"end\": 506.378, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 506.378, \"end\": 506.518, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 506.518, \"end\": 506.718, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 506.718, \"end\": 506.838, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 506.838, \"end\": 507.539, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 507.539, \"end\": 507.799, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 507.799, \"end\": 507.899, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 507.899, \"end\": 507.999, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 507.999, \"end\": 508.119, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"併\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 515.072, \"end\": 515.332, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 515.332, \"end\": 515.392, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 515.392, \"end\": 515.532, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"突\", \"start\": 515.532, \"end\": 515.652, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 515.652, \"end\": 516.353, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"趕\"}, {\"word\": \"快\", \"start\": 516.353, \"end\": 517.033, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"匆\"}, {\"word\": \"匆\"}, {\"word\": \"忙\", \"start\": 517.033, \"end\": 517.194, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"忙\", \"start\": 517.194, \"end\": 517.354, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 517.354, \"end\": 517.894, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 517.894, \"end\": 518.014, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 518.014, \"end\": 518.134, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 518.134, \"end\": 518.955, 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\"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"壽\"}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 524.559, \"end\": 524.779, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 524.779, \"end\": 525.7, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 525.7, \"end\": 525.98, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 525.98, \"end\": 526.261, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 526.261, \"end\": 526.661, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 526.661, \"end\": 527.101, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 527.101, \"end\": 527.341, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 527.341, \"end\": 527.542, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 527.542, \"end\": 528.102, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"風\"}, {\"word\": \"風\"}, {\"word\": \"雨\", \"start\": 528.102, \"end\": 528.302, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"雨\", \"start\": 528.302, \"end\": 528.903, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 528.903, \"end\": 529.043, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 529.043, \"end\": 529.183, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 529.183, \"end\": 530.084, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 530.084, \"end\": 530.304, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"早\", \"start\": 530.304, \"end\": 530.504, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 530.504, \"end\": 530.584, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 530.584, \"end\": 530.744, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 530.744, \"end\": 530.924, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 530.924, \"end\": 531.184, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 531.184, \"end\": 531.265, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"元\", \"start\": 531.265, \"end\": 531.505, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 531.505, \"end\": 531.525, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"併\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 531.525, \"end\": 531.545, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}]}, {\"start\": 533.426, \"end\": 562.666, \"text\": \"這些併購已經成為常態了我們現在看到勞動部可能希望能夠訂出金融機構合併的勞工勞動權益保障的行政指引也就是說這麼多年有這麼多的機構已經併購而且問題都差不多甚至對於安置尤其是如果沒有工會的銀行對他們的勞工保障更沒有保障所以要靠這些所謂的權金聯會其他的工會來幫他的忙所以主委我只想問金融合併是金管會支持的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 533.426, \"end\": 533.927, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"併\"}, {\"word\": \"購\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 533.927, \"end\": 534.147, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 534.147, \"end\": 534.427, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 534.427, \"end\": 534.707, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"態\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 534.707, \"end\": 535.367, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 535.367, \"end\": 535.468, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 535.468, \"end\": 535.668, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 535.668, \"end\": 535.868, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", 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\"end\": 663.916, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 663.916, \"end\": 663.936, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,965 --> 00:00:01,165\n告戒戶\n\n2\n00:00:24,795 --> 00:00:44,838\n也就是提供人頭賬戶要有地方警察機關來採取所謂的告誡處分而且限制他在五年內不得使用金融服務的部分的功能所以告誡戶他就變成他的他不是不能用,他的賬戶很難用非常難用那加上上一次為什麼會在委員會下決議就是因為\n\n3\n00:00:46,019 --> 00:00:58,445\n警示帳戶警察機關可以自行解除但是告戒戶到現在為止還是需要所謂的訴願程序那這個案子送到了地檢署\n\n4\n00:00:59,468 --> 00:01:20,888\n有人頭賬戶的時候他們就列出了告誡處分我們當然支持先做告誡的方式先讓他先讓他被警示但是解除的部分幾乎叫做困難重重簡單來說就像剛剛顏寬寬委員說的很多人他在網路上面賣東西然後東西也給了\n\n5\n00:01:22,635 --> 00:01:50,614\n買家賣家給了東西已經交出去了所以買家就找人匯了那筆錢進到他的賬戶後來才發現是這個買家去騙了別人來匯進這個賬戶也就是說這個賬戶的是網路賣家他並沒有把自己的賬號密碼交給第三人可是他就變成了告解戶那這個人他在6個月之後可能得到了不起訴處分\n\n6\n00:01:51,835 --> 00:02:18,693\n但是主委到現在沒有任何機制可以讓他解除告誡戶對吧這個警示戶跟告誡戶確實不太一樣是也就是說幾個月之後他取得了不起訴處分但是他要去取消告誡戶幾乎叫做不可能然後後來上一次我們在委員會他是說因為告誡戶是一個行政處分所以當時就要30天之內提出訴願但是\n\n7\n00:02:20,934 --> 00:02:41,590\n等到不起訴處分已經是半年後的事了他沒有辦法在30天之內提起訴願所以這些告誡戶到現在為止其實非常多人在向民意代表澄清可是我上次做的互待決議就是這件事情應該要清楚的預知或告知所有可能這樣受到影響的告誡戶這些人數有多少你知道嗎\n\n8\n00:02:42,389 --> 00:03:03,640\n因為上次我有有個數據有比如3月應該有應該有幾十萬人是幾十萬的百姓幾十萬的沒有把賬號密碼給別人的百姓他們現在被變成告戒戶在受到這樣子的不管是懷疑也好應該是其中有部分確實是剛剛那個狀況有很多確實是所以我一直說\n\n9\n00:03:04,580 --> 00:03:26,303\n金管會對於這些告借戶我相信我們希望你們研議出一個專門的或者是有救濟的方法就是把告借戶做等級的是如果他有不起作處分的是一種其他的狀況是一種因為他的確沒有把自己的賬號密碼給人家他也沒有把這個錢提出去給所謂的詐騙集團\n\n10\n00:03:27,577 --> 00:03:47,584\n他就是賣了一個東西他真的也付出了那個東西然後他的賬號被拿去做成詐騙的賬號雖然進到他的賬戶內他沒有領出來他也沒有交給別人但是他還是變成詐騙集團的共犯而且最後他可能變成不起訴處分書了但是這個部分沒有辦法取消他告戒戶的\n\n11\n00:03:50,465 --> 00:04:03,893\n問題這個問題很多而且幾十萬人好嗎主委不能再拖啦我們越聽越多了多到已經不知道該怎麼處理了這個我再請我們同仁來來來進一步了解跟\n\n12\n00:04:05,133 --> 00:04:20,888\n所以你請趕快找法務部找警政署是不是在警示賬戶的方式在告誡戶上面有沒有另外一個所謂的救濟的機制否則這些人到今天為止他真的就是一個受害的第三人\n\n13\n00:04:21,548 --> 00:04:21,909\n委員提供幾個個案\n\n14\n00:04:39,364 --> 00:05:00,944\n法院都幫你們做了調查了這些可以優先處理吧對對因為這個這個還牽涉到法務部因為執法是他們訂的我們會跟他聯繫來怎麼做上一次委員會下附帶決議就是這個道理因為的確這些人沒有救急管道至少他才被告誡以後拿到不起訴處分書他還是沒有辦法取消他的告誡的身份這個有點離譜啊\n\n15\n00:05:03,331 --> 00:05:30,045\n我們會來跟法務部來協調看看怎麼處理另外一個問題就是上一次有一個國際的通緝犯西班牙籍的男子奧納德在我國2019年在伊拉利詐欺了10億然後後來發現他在台灣過得很舒服非常的開心最嚴重的是他竟然在台灣登記了公司還開了銀行的賬戶後來我們請銀行繼續查來局長你們查的結果\n\n16\n00:05:33,601 --> 00:05:52,905\n報告委員我們總共查到有8家的銀行然後他分別有擔任負責人或有他自己本人有開戶所以因為我們查到了之後我們已經請銀行說這個人竟然已經有因為剛開始銀行是2019年他就上了新聞國際的資料庫都有\n\n17\n00:05:55,367 --> 00:06:16,264\n後來銀行也有在資料庫裡面查到有負面的新聞所以有些銀行已經做控管了那不過後來因為在開戶的時候都沒有查是嗎這可能牽涉到也是也許是有資訊的我現在要問的是還有沒有下一個現在所有在台灣負責人是外國人的人這些KYC都做好了嗎\n\n18\n00:06:17,986 --> 00:06:44,978\n後來我們因為這一次的事件我們也有發函給各個銀行就說他們從KYC上有回報現在他們清查的結果還有做相關的機制或處理了嗎?就是資料庫都設備過一次了嗎?對所以我們也會後續我們也會再請銀行說以後也要做回溯性的清查啦從這件事件以後局長我要的是進度你回溯性的清查已經做了多少?\n\n19\n00:06:45,638 --> 00:07:00,885\n做了多少家、多了多少人而不是只是發函你發了函,他們有回函嗎?有相關的統計嗎?或你發現了問題,要不要做一次的清查可以給他們時間,但是不能只是發函\n\n20\n00:07:03,215 --> 00:07:20,261\n這個委員我們後續再從這個方面我給你一個月的時間請他們回報他們清查的結果如果我們回溯你可以先回溯幾年再回溯幾年慢慢查但是總是要進入而且資料庫就在那裡有相關的人有相關的資料上去查就查得到\n\n21\n00:07:21,101 --> 00:07:46,468\nKYC不就是應該做這件事嗎我們現在的百姓不是常常收到銀行你要來更新你的資料你不更新我就要怎樣怎樣那對這些外國尤其是可能有這種國際通緝犯的這些人他們竟然在台灣可以過得這麼爽而且發現以後才發現他開了八個銀行帳戶這麼多年我們的洗錢防治可能都淪於空談\n\n22\n00:07:48,188 --> 00:07:50,010\n有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份\n\n23\n00:08:05,748 --> 00:08:29,420\n金融機構接下去為了國際競爭大概都會開始陸陸續續的合併現在的星光要被併但是後來賀蘭才發現這兩個銀行都沒有工會他們現在成立了現在在成立這是很奇怪的事也就是說我們看了全金聯他們的企業工會目前只有37家所以不是每個銀行都有工會是嗎\n\n24\n00:08:30,648 --> 00:08:51,545\n現在應該不是所有金融機構都有是,但是金融機構被併的時候就突然間趕快匆匆忙忙的成立工會之前包括富邦金、併購日盛金、花旗讓壽新展這些都是發生過很多的風風雨雨那之前更早的就是所謂的元大併大眾\n\n25\n00:08:53,426 --> 00:09:22,666\n這些併購已經成為常態了我們現在看到勞動部可能希望能夠訂出金融機構合併的勞工勞動權益保障的行政指引也就是說這麼多年有這麼多的機構已經併購而且問題都差不多甚至對於安置尤其是如果沒有工會的銀行對他們的勞工保障更沒有保障所以要靠這些所謂的權金聯會其他的工會來幫他的忙所以主委我只想問金融合併是金管會支持的\n\n26\n00:09:23,166 --> 00:09:29,275\n有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份\n\n27\n00:09:40,010 --> 00:09:54,285\n如果可以的話我們應該鼓勵各金融機構成立工會而不是到要合併的時候才赫然發現他沒工會趕快來成立然後工會沒有運作過其實很難達到一定的成果啊你同意嗎\n\n28\n00:09:56,488 --> 00:10:14,825\n這個應該是我們會跟勞動部資方都不喜歡成立工會啦但是銀行局應該去鼓勵我們相關的單位盡量的成立工會尤其是勞動部跟銀行局應該是讓銀行的管理對員工的保障納入正軌有工會的\n\n29\n00:10:16,287 --> 00:10:30,597\n銀行更沒有工會的銀行他對於勞工的保障當然會有影響所以我們不能期待有很棒的老闆可能有慣老闆誰知道所以鼓勵銀行成立工會也應該是金管會推動的業務吧\n\n30\n00:10:31,380 --> 00:11:00,276\n我想這應該是勞動部我們站在金融監督的角度你們不反對嘛所以也希望銀行不要去阻止他們銀行的內部員工我們不會阻止這是他們的權利而且要保障他們成立工會的權益那我們是希望有一個公平的這樣一個交易所以我們希望你們現在就協助相關的銀行員工他們將來除了審查之外我希望工會的成立還有這個所謂合併的時候權益保障的行政執行監會要大力介入好嗎\n\n31\n00:11:01,374 --> 00:11:03,936\n接著我們請謝榮介委員謝榮介謝榮介謝榮介不在接著我們請郭國文委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n965\t1165\t告戒戶\n24795\t44838\t也就是提供人頭賬戶要有地方警察機關來採取所謂的告誡處分而且限制他在五年內不得使用金融服務的部分的功能所以告誡戶他就變成他的他不是不能用,他的賬戶很難用非常難用那加上上一次為什麼會在委員會下決議就是因為\n46019\t58445\t警示帳戶警察機關可以自行解除但是告戒戶到現在為止還是需要所謂的訴願程序那這個案子送到了地檢署\n59468\t80888\t有人頭賬戶的時候他們就列出了告誡處分我們當然支持先做告誡的方式先讓他先讓他被警示但是解除的部分幾乎叫做困難重重簡單來說就像剛剛顏寬寬委員說的很多人他在網路上面賣東西然後東西也給了\n82635\t110614\t買家賣家給了東西已經交出去了所以買家就找人匯了那筆錢進到他的賬戶後來才發現是這個買家去騙了別人來匯進這個賬戶也就是說這個賬戶的是網路賣家他並沒有把自己的賬號密碼交給第三人可是他就變成了告解戶那這個人他在6個月之後可能得到了不起訴處分\n111835\t138693\t但是 主委 到現在沒有任何機制可以讓他解除告誡戶 對吧這個警示戶跟告誡戶確實不太一樣是 也就是說幾個月之後他取得了不起訴處分但是他要去取消告誡戶幾乎叫做不可能然後後來上一次我們在委員會他是說因為告誡戶是一個行政處分所以當時就要30天之內提出訴願但是\n140934\t161590\t等到不起訴處分已經是半年後的事了他沒有辦法在30天之內提起訴願所以這些告誡戶到現在為止其實非常多人在向民意代表澄清可是我上次做的互待決議就是這件事情應該要清楚的預知或告知所有可能這樣受到影響的告誡戶這些人數有多少你知道嗎\n162389\t183640\t因為上次我有有個數據有比如3月應該有應該有幾十萬人是幾十萬的百姓幾十萬的沒有把賬號密碼給別人的百姓他們現在被變成告戒戶在受到這樣子的不管是懷疑也好應該是其中有部分確實是剛剛那個狀況有很多確實是所以我一直說\n184580\t206303\t金管會對於這些告借戶我相信我們希望你們研議出一個專門的或者是有救濟的方法就是把告借戶做等級的是如果他有不起作處分的是一種其他的狀況是一種因為他的確沒有把自己的賬號密碼給人家他也沒有把這個錢提出去給所謂的詐騙集團\n207577\t227584\t他就是賣了一個東西他真的也付出了那個東西然後他的賬號被拿去做成詐騙的賬號雖然進到他的賬戶內他沒有領出來他也沒有交給別人但是他還是變成詐騙集團的共犯而且最後他可能變成不起訴處分書了但是這個部分沒有辦法取消他告戒戶的\n230465\t243893\t問題這個問題很多而且幾十萬人好嗎主委不能再拖啦我們越聽越多了多到已經不知道該怎麼處理了這個我再請我們同仁來來來進一步了解跟\n245133\t260888\t所以你請趕快找法務部找警政署是不是在警示賬戶的方式在告誡戶上面有沒有另外一個所謂的救濟的機制否則這些人到今天為止他真的就是一個受害的第三人\n261548\t261909\t委員提供幾個個案\n279364\t300944\t法院都幫你們做了調查了這些可以優先處理吧對對因為這個這個還牽涉到法務部因為執法是他們訂的我們會跟他聯繫來怎麼做上一次委員會下附帶決議就是這個道理因為的確這些人沒有救急管道至少他才被告誡以後拿到不起訴處分書他還是沒有辦法取消他的告誡的身份這個有點離譜啊\n303331\t330045\t我們會來跟法務部來協調看看怎麼處理另外一個問題就是上一次有一個國際的通緝犯西班牙籍的男子奧納德在我國2019年在伊拉利詐欺了10億然後後來發現他在台灣過得很舒服非常的開心最嚴重的是他竟然在台灣登記了公司還開了銀行的賬戶後來我們請銀行繼續查來局長你們查的結果\n333601\t352905\t報告委員我們總共查到有8家的銀行然後他分別有擔任負責人或有他自己本人有開戶所以因為我們查到了之後我們已經請銀行說這個人竟然已經有因為剛開始銀行是2019年他就上了新聞國際的資料庫都有\n355367\t376264\t後來銀行也有在資料庫裡面查到有負面的新聞所以有些銀行已經做控管了那不過後來因為在開戶的時候都沒有查是嗎這可能牽涉到也是也許是有資訊的我現在要問的是還有沒有下一個現在所有在台灣負責人是外國人的人這些KYC都做好了嗎\n377986\t404978\t後來我們因為這一次的事件我們也有發函給各個銀行就說他們從KYC上有回報現在他們清查的結果還有做相關的機制或處理了嗎?就是資料庫都設備過一次了嗎?對所以我們也會後續我們也會再請銀行說以後也要做回溯性的清查啦從這件事件以後局長我要的是進度你回溯性的清查已經做了多少?\n405638\t420885\t做了多少家、多了多少人而不是只是發函你發了函,他們有回函嗎?有相關的統計嗎?或你發現了問題,要不要做一次的清查可以給他們時間,但是不能只是發函\n423215\t440261\t這個委員我們後續再從這個方面我給你一個月的時間請他們回報他們清查的結果如果我們回溯你可以先回溯幾年再回溯幾年慢慢查但是總是要進入而且資料庫就在那裡有相關的人有相關的資料上去查就查得到\n441101\t466468\tKYC不就是應該做這件事嗎我們現在的百姓不是常常收到銀行你要來更新你的資料你不更新我就要怎樣怎樣那對這些外國尤其是可能有這種國際通緝犯的這些人他們竟然在台灣可以過得這麼爽而且發現以後才發現他開了八個銀行帳戶這麼多年我們的洗錢防治可能都淪於空談\n468188\t470010\t有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份\n485748\t509420\t金融機構接下去為了國際競爭大概都會開始陸陸續續的合併現在的星光要被併但是後來賀蘭才發現這兩個銀行都沒有工會他們現在成立了現在在成立這是很奇怪的事也就是說我們看了全金聯他們的企業工會目前只有37家所以不是每個銀行都有工會是嗎\n510648\t531545\t現在應該不是所有金融機構都有是,但是金融機構被併的時候就突然間趕快匆匆忙忙的成立工會之前包括富邦金、併購日盛金、花旗讓壽新展這些都是發生過很多的風風雨雨那之前更早的就是所謂的元大併大眾\n533426\t562666\t這些併購已經成為常態了我們現在看到勞動部可能希望能夠訂出金融機構合併的勞工勞動權益保障的行政指引也就是說這麼多年有這麼多的機構已經併購而且問題都差不多甚至對於安置尤其是如果沒有工會的銀行對他們的勞工保障更沒有保障所以要靠這些所謂的權金聯會其他的工會來幫他的忙所以主委我只想問金融合併是金管會支持的\n563166\t569275\t有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份\n580010\t594285\t如果可以的話我們應該鼓勵各金融機構成立工會而不是到要合併的時候才赫然發現他沒工會趕快來成立然後工會沒有運作過其實很難達到一定的成果啊你同意嗎\n596488\t614825\t這個應該是我們會跟勞動部 資方都不喜歡成立工會啦但是銀行局應該去鼓勵我們相關的單位盡量的成立工會尤其是勞動部跟銀行局應該是讓銀行的管理對員工的保障納入正軌有工會的\n616287\t630597\t銀行更沒有工會的銀行他對於勞工的保障當然會有影響所以我們不能期待有很棒的老闆可能有慣老闆誰知道所以鼓勵銀行成立工會也應該是金管會推動的業務吧\n631380\t660276\t我想這應該是勞動部我們站在金融監督的角度你們不反對嘛所以也希望銀行不要去阻止他們銀行的內部員工我們不會阻止這是他們的權利而且要保障他們成立工會的權益那我們是希望有一個公平的這樣一個交易所以我們希望你們現在就協助相關的銀行員工他們將來除了審查之外我希望工會的成立還有這個所謂合併的時候權益保障的行政執行監會要大力介入好嗎\n661374\t663936\t接著我們請謝榮介委員謝榮介謝榮介謝榮介不在接著我們請郭國文委員\n","txt":"告戒戶\n也就是提供人頭賬戶要有地方警察機關來採取所謂的告誡處分而且限制他在五年內不得使用金融服務的部分的功能所以告誡戶他就變成他的他不是不能用,他的賬戶很難用非常難用那加上上一次為什麼會在委員會下決議就是因為\n警示帳戶警察機關可以自行解除但是告戒戶到現在為止還是需要所謂的訴願程序那這個案子送到了地檢署\n有人頭賬戶的時候他們就列出了告誡處分我們當然支持先做告誡的方式先讓他先讓他被警示但是解除的部分幾乎叫做困難重重簡單來說就像剛剛顏寬寬委員說的很多人他在網路上面賣東西然後東西也給了\n買家賣家給了東西已經交出去了所以買家就找人匯了那筆錢進到他的賬戶後來才發現是這個買家去騙了別人來匯進這個賬戶也就是說這個賬戶的是網路賣家他並沒有把自己的賬號密碼交給第三人可是他就變成了告解戶那這個人他在6個月之後可能得到了不起訴處分\n但是 主委 到現在沒有任何機制可以讓他解除告誡戶 對吧這個警示戶跟告誡戶確實不太一樣是 也就是說幾個月之後他取得了不起訴處分但是他要去取消告誡戶幾乎叫做不可能然後後來上一次我們在委員會他是說因為告誡戶是一個行政處分所以當時就要30天之內提出訴願但是\n等到不起訴處分已經是半年後的事了他沒有辦法在30天之內提起訴願所以這些告誡戶到現在為止其實非常多人在向民意代表澄清可是我上次做的互待決議就是這件事情應該要清楚的預知或告知所有可能這樣受到影響的告誡戶這些人數有多少你知道嗎\n因為上次我有有個數據有比如3月應該有應該有幾十萬人是幾十萬的百姓幾十萬的沒有把賬號密碼給別人的百姓他們現在被變成告戒戶在受到這樣子的不管是懷疑也好應該是其中有部分確實是剛剛那個狀況有很多確實是所以我一直說\n金管會對於這些告借戶我相信我們希望你們研議出一個專門的或者是有救濟的方法就是把告借戶做等級的是如果他有不起作處分的是一種其他的狀況是一種因為他的確沒有把自己的賬號密碼給人家他也沒有把這個錢提出去給所謂的詐騙集團\n他就是賣了一個東西他真的也付出了那個東西然後他的賬號被拿去做成詐騙的賬號雖然進到他的賬戶內他沒有領出來他也沒有交給別人但是他還是變成詐騙集團的共犯而且最後他可能變成不起訴處分書了但是這個部分沒有辦法取消他告戒戶的\n問題這個問題很多而且幾十萬人好嗎主委不能再拖啦我們越聽越多了多到已經不知道該怎麼處理了這個我再請我們同仁來來來進一步了解跟\n所以你請趕快找法務部找警政署是不是在警示賬戶的方式在告誡戶上面有沒有另外一個所謂的救濟的機制否則這些人到今天為止他真的就是一個受害的第三人\n委員提供幾個個案\n法院都幫你們做了調查了這些可以優先處理吧對對因為這個這個還牽涉到法務部因為執法是他們訂的我們會跟他聯繫來怎麼做上一次委員會下附帶決議就是這個道理因為的確這些人沒有救急管道至少他才被告誡以後拿到不起訴處分書他還是沒有辦法取消他的告誡的身份這個有點離譜啊\n我們會來跟法務部來協調看看怎麼處理另外一個問題就是上一次有一個國際的通緝犯西班牙籍的男子奧納德在我國2019年在伊拉利詐欺了10億然後後來發現他在台灣過得很舒服非常的開心最嚴重的是他竟然在台灣登記了公司還開了銀行的賬戶後來我們請銀行繼續查來局長你們查的結果\n報告委員我們總共查到有8家的銀行然後他分別有擔任負責人或有他自己本人有開戶所以因為我們查到了之後我們已經請銀行說這個人竟然已經有因為剛開始銀行是2019年他就上了新聞國際的資料庫都有\n後來銀行也有在資料庫裡面查到有負面的新聞所以有些銀行已經做控管了那不過後來因為在開戶的時候都沒有查是嗎這可能牽涉到也是也許是有資訊的我現在要問的是還有沒有下一個現在所有在台灣負責人是外國人的人這些KYC都做好了嗎\n後來我們因為這一次的事件我們也有發函給各個銀行就說他們從KYC上有回報現在他們清查的結果還有做相關的機制或處理了嗎?就是資料庫都設備過一次了嗎?對所以我們也會後續我們也會再請銀行說以後也要做回溯性的清查啦從這件事件以後局長我要的是進度你回溯性的清查已經做了多少?\n做了多少家、多了多少人而不是只是發函你發了函,他們有回函嗎?有相關的統計嗎?或你發現了問題,要不要做一次的清查可以給他們時間,但是不能只是發函\n這個委員我們後續再從這個方面我給你一個月的時間請他們回報他們清查的結果如果我們回溯你可以先回溯幾年再回溯幾年慢慢查但是總是要進入而且資料庫就在那裡有相關的人有相關的資料上去查就查得到\nKYC不就是應該做這件事嗎我們現在的百姓不是常常收到銀行你要來更新你的資料你不更新我就要怎樣怎樣那對這些外國尤其是可能有這種國際通緝犯的這些人他們竟然在台灣可以過得這麼爽而且發現以後才發現他開了八個銀行帳戶這麼多年我們的洗錢防治可能都淪於空談\n有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份\n金融機構接下去為了國際競爭大概都會開始陸陸續續的合併現在的星光要被併但是後來賀蘭才發現這兩個銀行都沒有工會他們現在成立了現在在成立這是很奇怪的事也就是說我們看了全金聯他們的企業工會目前只有37家所以不是每個銀行都有工會是嗎\n現在應該不是所有金融機構都有是,但是金融機構被併的時候就突然間趕快匆匆忙忙的成立工會之前包括富邦金、併購日盛金、花旗讓壽新展這些都是發生過很多的風風雨雨那之前更早的就是所謂的元大併大眾\n這些併購已經成為常態了我們現在看到勞動部可能希望能夠訂出金融機構合併的勞工勞動權益保障的行政指引也就是說這麼多年有這麼多的機構已經併購而且問題都差不多甚至對於安置尤其是如果沒有工會的銀行對他們的勞工保障更沒有保障所以要靠這些所謂的權金聯會其他的工會來幫他的忙所以主委我只想問金融合併是金管會支持的\n有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份\n如果可以的話我們應該鼓勵各金融機構成立工會而不是到要合併的時候才赫然發現他沒工會趕快來成立然後工會沒有運作過其實很難達到一定的成果啊你同意嗎\n這個應該是我們會跟勞動部 資方都不喜歡成立工會啦但是銀行局應該去鼓勵我們相關的單位盡量的成立工會尤其是勞動部跟銀行局應該是讓銀行的管理對員工的保障納入正軌有工會的\n銀行更沒有工會的銀行他對於勞工的保障當然會有影響所以我們不能期待有很棒的老闆可能有慣老闆誰知道所以鼓勵銀行成立工會也應該是金管會推動的業務吧\n我想這應該是勞動部我們站在金融監督的角度你們不反對嘛所以也希望銀行不要去阻止他們銀行的內部員工我們不會阻止這是他們的權利而且要保障他們成立工會的權益那我們是希望有一個公平的這樣一個交易所以我們希望你們現在就協助相關的銀行員工他們將來除了審查之外我希望工會的成立還有這個所謂合併的時候權益保障的行政執行監會要大力介入好嗎\n接著我們請謝榮介委員謝榮介謝榮介謝榮介不在接著我們請郭國文委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.965 --> 00:01.165\n告戒戶\n\n00:24.795 --> 00:44.838\n也就是提供人頭賬戶要有地方警察機關來採取所謂的告誡處分而且限制他在五年內不得使用金融服務的部分的功能所以告誡戶他就變成他的他不是不能用,他的賬戶很難用非常難用那加上上一次為什麼會在委員會下決議就是因為\n\n00:46.019 --> 00:58.445\n警示帳戶警察機關可以自行解除但是告戒戶到現在為止還是需要所謂的訴願程序那這個案子送到了地檢署\n\n00:59.468 --> 01:20.888\n有人頭賬戶的時候他們就列出了告誡處分我們當然支持先做告誡的方式先讓他先讓他被警示但是解除的部分幾乎叫做困難重重簡單來說就像剛剛顏寬寬委員說的很多人他在網路上面賣東西然後東西也給了\n\n01:22.635 --> 01:50.614\n買家賣家給了東西已經交出去了所以買家就找人匯了那筆錢進到他的賬戶後來才發現是這個買家去騙了別人來匯進這個賬戶也就是說這個賬戶的是網路賣家他並沒有把自己的賬號密碼交給第三人可是他就變成了告解戶那這個人他在6個月之後可能得到了不起訴處分\n\n01:51.835 --> 02:18.693\n但是主委到現在沒有任何機制可以讓他解除告誡戶對吧這個警示戶跟告誡戶確實不太一樣是也就是說幾個月之後他取得了不起訴處分但是他要去取消告誡戶幾乎叫做不可能然後後來上一次我們在委員會他是說因為告誡戶是一個行政處分所以當時就要30天之內提出訴願但是\n\n02:20.934 --> 02:41.590\n等到不起訴處分已經是半年後的事了他沒有辦法在30天之內提起訴願所以這些告誡戶到現在為止其實非常多人在向民意代表澄清可是我上次做的互待決議就是這件事情應該要清楚的預知或告知所有可能這樣受到影響的告誡戶這些人數有多少你知道嗎\n\n02:42.389 --> 03:03.640\n因為上次我有有個數據有比如3月應該有應該有幾十萬人是幾十萬的百姓幾十萬的沒有把賬號密碼給別人的百姓他們現在被變成告戒戶在受到這樣子的不管是懷疑也好應該是其中有部分確實是剛剛那個狀況有很多確實是所以我一直說\n\n03:04.580 --> 03:26.303\n金管會對於這些告借戶我相信我們希望你們研議出一個專門的或者是有救濟的方法就是把告借戶做等級的是如果他有不起作處分的是一種其他的狀況是一種因為他的確沒有把自己的賬號密碼給人家他也沒有把這個錢提出去給所謂的詐騙集團\n\n03:27.577 --> 03:47.584\n他就是賣了一個東西他真的也付出了那個東西然後他的賬號被拿去做成詐騙的賬號雖然進到他的賬戶內他沒有領出來他也沒有交給別人但是他還是變成詐騙集團的共犯而且最後他可能變成不起訴處分書了但是這個部分沒有辦法取消他告戒戶的\n\n03:50.465 --> 04:03.893\n問題這個問題很多而且幾十萬人好嗎主委不能再拖啦我們越聽越多了多到已經不知道該怎麼處理了這個我再請我們同仁來來來進一步了解跟\n\n04:05.133 --> 04:20.888\n所以你請趕快找法務部找警政署是不是在警示賬戶的方式在告誡戶上面有沒有另外一個所謂的救濟的機制否則這些人到今天為止他真的就是一個受害的第三人\n\n04:21.548 --> 04:21.909\n委員提供幾個個案\n\n04:39.364 --> 05:00.944\n法院都幫你們做了調查了這些可以優先處理吧對對因為這個這個還牽涉到法務部因為執法是他們訂的我們會跟他聯繫來怎麼做上一次委員會下附帶決議就是這個道理因為的確這些人沒有救急管道至少他才被告誡以後拿到不起訴處分書他還是沒有辦法取消他的告誡的身份這個有點離譜啊\n\n05:03.331 --> 05:30.045\n我們會來跟法務部來協調看看怎麼處理另外一個問題就是上一次有一個國際的通緝犯西班牙籍的男子奧納德在我國2019年在伊拉利詐欺了10億然後後來發現他在台灣過得很舒服非常的開心最嚴重的是他竟然在台灣登記了公司還開了銀行的賬戶後來我們請銀行繼續查來局長你們查的結果\n\n05:33.601 --> 05:52.905\n報告委員我們總共查到有8家的銀行然後他分別有擔任負責人或有他自己本人有開戶所以因為我們查到了之後我們已經請銀行說這個人竟然已經有因為剛開始銀行是2019年他就上了新聞國際的資料庫都有\n\n05:55.367 --> 06:16.264\n後來銀行也有在資料庫裡面查到有負面的新聞所以有些銀行已經做控管了那不過後來因為在開戶的時候都沒有查是嗎這可能牽涉到也是也許是有資訊的我現在要問的是還有沒有下一個現在所有在台灣負責人是外國人的人這些KYC都做好了嗎\n\n06:17.986 --> 06:44.978\n後來我們因為這一次的事件我們也有發函給各個銀行就說他們從KYC上有回報現在他們清查的結果還有做相關的機制或處理了嗎?就是資料庫都設備過一次了嗎?對所以我們也會後續我們也會再請銀行說以後也要做回溯性的清查啦從這件事件以後局長我要的是進度你回溯性的清查已經做了多少?\n\n06:45.638 --> 07:00.885\n做了多少家、多了多少人而不是只是發函你發了函,他們有回函嗎?有相關的統計嗎?或你發現了問題,要不要做一次的清查可以給他們時間,但是不能只是發函\n\n07:03.215 --> 07:20.261\n這個委員我們後續再從這個方面我給你一個月的時間請他們回報他們清查的結果如果我們回溯你可以先回溯幾年再回溯幾年慢慢查但是總是要進入而且資料庫就在那裡有相關的人有相關的資料上去查就查得到\n\n07:21.101 --> 07:46.468\nKYC不就是應該做這件事嗎我們現在的百姓不是常常收到銀行你要來更新你的資料你不更新我就要怎樣怎樣那對這些外國尤其是可能有這種國際通緝犯的這些人他們竟然在台灣可以過得這麼爽而且發現以後才發現他開了八個銀行帳戶這麼多年我們的洗錢防治可能都淪於空談\n\n07:48.188 --> 07:50.010\n有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份\n\n08:05.748 --> 08:29.420\n金融機構接下去為了國際競爭大概都會開始陸陸續續的合併現在的星光要被併但是後來賀蘭才發現這兩個銀行都沒有工會他們現在成立了現在在成立這是很奇怪的事也就是說我們看了全金聯他們的企業工會目前只有37家所以不是每個銀行都有工會是嗎\n\n08:30.648 --> 08:51.545\n現在應該不是所有金融機構都有是,但是金融機構被併的時候就突然間趕快匆匆忙忙的成立工會之前包括富邦金、併購日盛金、花旗讓壽新展這些都是發生過很多的風風雨雨那之前更早的就是所謂的元大併大眾\n\n08:53.426 --> 09:22.666\n這些併購已經成為常態了我們現在看到勞動部可能希望能夠訂出金融機構合併的勞工勞動權益保障的行政指引也就是說這麼多年有這麼多的機構已經併購而且問題都差不多甚至對於安置尤其是如果沒有工會的銀行對他們的勞工保障更沒有保障所以要靠這些所謂的權金聯會其他的工會來幫他的忙所以主委我只想問金融合併是金管會支持的\n\n09:23.166 --> 09:29.275\n有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份\n\n09:40.010 --> 09:54.285\n如果可以的話我們應該鼓勵各金融機構成立工會而不是到要合併的時候才赫然發現他沒工會趕快來成立然後工會沒有運作過其實很難達到一定的成果啊你同意嗎\n\n09:56.488 --> 10:14.825\n這個應該是我們會跟勞動部資方都不喜歡成立工會啦但是銀行局應該去鼓勵我們相關的單位盡量的成立工會尤其是勞動部跟銀行局應該是讓銀行的管理對員工的保障納入正軌有工會的\n\n10:16.287 --> 10:30.597\n銀行更沒有工會的銀行他對於勞工的保障當然會有影響所以我們不能期待有很棒的老闆可能有慣老闆誰知道所以鼓勵銀行成立工會也應該是金管會推動的業務吧\n\n10:31.380 --> 11:00.276\n我想這應該是勞動部我們站在金融監督的角度你們不反對嘛所以也希望銀行不要去阻止他們銀行的內部員工我們不會阻止這是他們的權利而且要保障他們成立工會的權益那我們是希望有一個公平的這樣一個交易所以我們希望你們現在就協助相關的銀行員工他們將來除了審查之外我希望工會的成立還有這個所謂合併的時候權益保障的行政執行監會要大力介入好嗎\n\n11:01.374 --> 11:03.936\n接著我們請謝榮介委員謝榮介謝榮介謝榮介不在接著我們請郭國文委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.965,"end":1.165,"text":"告戒戶"},{"start":24.795,"end":44.838,"text":"也就是提供人頭賬戶要有地方警察機關來採取所謂的告誡處分而且限制他在五年內不得使用金融服務的部分的功能所以告誡戶他就變成他的他不是不能用,他的賬戶很難用非常難用那加上上一次為什麼會在委員會下決議就是因為"},{"start":46.019,"end":58.445,"text":"警示帳戶警察機關可以自行解除但是告戒戶到現在為止還是需要所謂的訴願程序那這個案子送到了地檢署"},{"start":59.468,"end":80.888,"text":"有人頭賬戶的時候他們就列出了告誡處分我們當然支持先做告誡的方式先讓他先讓他被警示但是解除的部分幾乎叫做困難重重簡單來說就像剛剛顏寬寬委員說的很多人他在網路上面賣東西然後東西也給了"},{"start":82.635,"end":110.614,"text":"買家賣家給了東西已經交出去了所以買家就找人匯了那筆錢進到他的賬戶後來才發現是這個買家去騙了別人來匯進這個賬戶也就是說這個賬戶的是網路賣家他並沒有把自己的賬號密碼交給第三人可是他就變成了告解戶那這個人他在6個月之後可能得到了不起訴處分"},{"start":111.835,"end":138.693,"text":"但是 主委 到現在沒有任何機制可以讓他解除告誡戶 對吧這個警示戶跟告誡戶確實不太一樣是 也就是說幾個月之後他取得了不起訴處分但是他要去取消告誡戶幾乎叫做不可能然後後來上一次我們在委員會他是說因為告誡戶是一個行政處分所以當時就要30天之內提出訴願但是"},{"start":140.934,"end":161.59,"text":"等到不起訴處分已經是半年後的事了他沒有辦法在30天之內提起訴願所以這些告誡戶到現在為止其實非常多人在向民意代表澄清可是我上次做的互待決議就是這件事情應該要清楚的預知或告知所有可能這樣受到影響的告誡戶這些人數有多少你知道嗎"},{"start":162.389,"end":183.64,"text":"因為上次我有有個數據有比如3月應該有應該有幾十萬人是幾十萬的百姓幾十萬的沒有把賬號密碼給別人的百姓他們現在被變成告戒戶在受到這樣子的不管是懷疑也好應該是其中有部分確實是剛剛那個狀況有很多確實是所以我一直說"},{"start":184.58,"end":206.303,"text":"金管會對於這些告借戶我相信我們希望你們研議出一個專門的或者是有救濟的方法就是把告借戶做等級的是如果他有不起作處分的是一種其他的狀況是一種因為他的確沒有把自己的賬號密碼給人家他也沒有把這個錢提出去給所謂的詐騙集團"},{"start":207.577,"end":227.584,"text":"他就是賣了一個東西他真的也付出了那個東西然後他的賬號被拿去做成詐騙的賬號雖然進到他的賬戶內他沒有領出來他也沒有交給別人但是他還是變成詐騙集團的共犯而且最後他可能變成不起訴處分書了但是這個部分沒有辦法取消他告戒戶的"},{"start":230.465,"end":243.893,"text":"問題這個問題很多而且幾十萬人好嗎主委不能再拖啦我們越聽越多了多到已經不知道該怎麼處理了這個我再請我們同仁來來來進一步了解跟"},{"start":245.133,"end":260.888,"text":"所以你請趕快找法務部找警政署是不是在警示賬戶的方式在告誡戶上面有沒有另外一個所謂的救濟的機制否則這些人到今天為止他真的就是一個受害的第三人"},{"start":261.548,"end":261.909,"text":"委員提供幾個個案"},{"start":279.364,"end":300.944,"text":"法院都幫你們做了調查了這些可以優先處理吧對對因為這個這個還牽涉到法務部因為執法是他們訂的我們會跟他聯繫來怎麼做上一次委員會下附帶決議就是這個道理因為的確這些人沒有救急管道至少他才被告誡以後拿到不起訴處分書他還是沒有辦法取消他的告誡的身份這個有點離譜啊"},{"start":303.331,"end":330.045,"text":"我們會來跟法務部來協調看看怎麼處理另外一個問題就是上一次有一個國際的通緝犯西班牙籍的男子奧納德在我國2019年在伊拉利詐欺了10億然後後來發現他在台灣過得很舒服非常的開心最嚴重的是他竟然在台灣登記了公司還開了銀行的賬戶後來我們請銀行繼續查來局長你們查的結果"},{"start":333.601,"end":352.905,"text":"報告委員我們總共查到有8家的銀行然後他分別有擔任負責人或有他自己本人有開戶所以因為我們查到了之後我們已經請銀行說這個人竟然已經有因為剛開始銀行是2019年他就上了新聞國際的資料庫都有"},{"start":355.367,"end":376.264,"text":"後來銀行也有在資料庫裡面查到有負面的新聞所以有些銀行已經做控管了那不過後來因為在開戶的時候都沒有查是嗎這可能牽涉到也是也許是有資訊的我現在要問的是還有沒有下一個現在所有在台灣負責人是外國人的人這些KYC都做好了嗎"},{"start":377.986,"end":404.978,"text":"後來我們因為這一次的事件我們也有發函給各個銀行就說他們從KYC上有回報現在他們清查的結果還有做相關的機制或處理了嗎?就是資料庫都設備過一次了嗎?對所以我們也會後續我們也會再請銀行說以後也要做回溯性的清查啦從這件事件以後局長我要的是進度你回溯性的清查已經做了多少?"},{"start":405.638,"end":420.885,"text":"做了多少家、多了多少人而不是只是發函你發了函,他們有回函嗎?有相關的統計嗎?或你發現了問題,要不要做一次的清查可以給他們時間,但是不能只是發函"},{"start":423.215,"end":440.261,"text":"這個委員我們後續再從這個方面我給你一個月的時間請他們回報他們清查的結果如果我們回溯你可以先回溯幾年再回溯幾年慢慢查但是總是要進入而且資料庫就在那裡有相關的人有相關的資料上去查就查得到"},{"start":441.101,"end":466.468,"text":"KYC不就是應該做這件事嗎我們現在的百姓不是常常收到銀行你要來更新你的資料你不更新我就要怎樣怎樣那對這些外國尤其是可能有這種國際通緝犯的這些人他們竟然在台灣可以過得這麼爽而且發現以後才發現他開了八個銀行帳戶這麼多年我們的洗錢防治可能都淪於空談"},{"start":468.188,"end":470.01,"text":"有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份"},{"start":485.748,"end":509.42,"text":"金融機構接下去為了國際競爭大概都會開始陸陸續續的合併現在的星光要被併但是後來賀蘭才發現這兩個銀行都沒有工會他們現在成立了現在在成立這是很奇怪的事也就是說我們看了全金聯他們的企業工會目前只有37家所以不是每個銀行都有工會是嗎"},{"start":510.648,"end":531.545,"text":"現在應該不是所有金融機構都有是,但是金融機構被併的時候就突然間趕快匆匆忙忙的成立工會之前包括富邦金、併購日盛金、花旗讓壽新展這些都是發生過很多的風風雨雨那之前更早的就是所謂的元大併大眾"},{"start":533.426,"end":562.666,"text":"這些併購已經成為常態了我們現在看到勞動部可能希望能夠訂出金融機構合併的勞工勞動權益保障的行政指引也就是說這麼多年有這麼多的機構已經併購而且問題都差不多甚至對於安置尤其是如果沒有工會的銀行對他們的勞工保障更沒有保障所以要靠這些所謂的權金聯會其他的工會來幫他的忙所以主委我只想問金融合併是金管會支持的"},{"start":563.166,"end":569.275,"text":"有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份"},{"start":580.01,"end":594.285,"text":"如果可以的話我們應該鼓勵各金融機構成立工會而不是到要合併的時候才赫然發現他沒工會趕快來成立然後工會沒有運作過其實很難達到一定的成果啊你同意嗎"},{"start":596.488,"end":614.825,"text":"這個應該是我們會跟勞動部 資方都不喜歡成立工會啦但是銀行局應該去鼓勵我們相關的單位盡量的成立工會尤其是勞動部跟銀行局應該是讓銀行的管理對員工的保障納入正軌有工會的"},{"start":616.287,"end":630.597,"text":"銀行更沒有工會的銀行他對於勞工的保障當然會有影響所以我們不能期待有很棒的老闆可能有慣老闆誰知道所以鼓勵銀行成立工會也應該是金管會推動的業務吧"},{"start":631.38,"end":660.276,"text":"我想這應該是勞動部我們站在金融監督的角度你們不反對嘛所以也希望銀行不要去阻止他們銀行的內部員工我們不會阻止這是他們的權利而且要保障他們成立工會的權益那我們是希望有一個公平的這樣一個交易所以我們希望你們現在就協助相關的銀行員工他們將來除了審查之外我希望工會的成立還有這個所謂合併的時候權益保障的行政執行監會要大力介入好嗎"},{"start":661.374,"end":663.936,"text":"接著我們請謝榮介委員謝榮介謝榮介謝榮介不在接著我們請郭國文委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":977,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（11時11分）謝謝主席，我請彭主委。"],["主席：請彭主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["黃委員珊珊：主委，剛剛顏寬恒委員問的都是大家的心聲，因為詐騙案還是非常多，詐騙的後面就叫做洗錢，今年5月我們在新修洗錢防制法的時候，當時我還記得我下了一個附帶決議，我相信很多的委員也都接到很多的陳情，因為有一個叫做告誡戶，也就是提供人頭帳戶，要由地方警察機關來裁處所謂的告誡處分，而且限制他在5年內不得使用金融服務部分功能……"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，數位服務。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以告誡戶不是不能用他的帳戶，而是很難用，非常難用。上一次我為什麼會在委員會下決議？就是因為警示帳戶警察機關可以自行解除，但是告誡戶到現在為止還是需要經過訴願程序，這個案子送到了地檢署，有人頭帳戶的時候，他們就列出告誡處分，我們當然支持先做告誡的方式，先讓他被警示，但是解除幾乎是困難重重，簡單來說，就像剛剛顏寬恒委員說的，很多人在網路上面賣東西，然後東西也給了買家，賣家的東西已經交出去了，而買家找人匯了那筆錢進到他的帳戶，後來才發現是這個買家去騙了別人來匯進這個帳戶，也就是說，這個帳戶是網路賣家的，他並沒有把自己的帳號密碼交給第三人，可是他就變成了告誡戶，那這個人他在6個月之後可能得到了不起訴處分，但是，主委，到現在沒有任何機制可以讓他解除告誡戶，對吧？"],["彭主任委員金隆：警示戶跟告誡戶確實不太一樣。"],["黃委員珊珊：是。也就是說，幾個月之後他取得了不起訴處分，但是他要去取消告誡戶，幾乎不可能，後來在上一次委員會，相關單位說，因為告誡戶是一個行政處分，所以當時就要30天之內提出訴願，但是等到收到不起訴處分，已經是半年後的事了，他沒有辦法在30天之內提起訴願，所以到現在為止，這些告誡戶有非常多人向民意代表陳情，我們上次做了附帶決議，就是這件事情應該要清楚地諭知或告知所有可能受到影響的告誡戶，這個人數有多少，你知道嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：上次有個數據，比如說，3月應該有幾十萬。"],["黃委員珊珊：是，幾十萬的百姓，幾十萬個沒有把帳號密碼給別人的百姓，他們現在變成告誡戶，受到這樣子的懷疑。"],["彭主任委員金隆：應該是其中有部分確實是剛剛那個狀況，有很多確實是……"],["黃委員珊珊：所以我一直說，金管會對於這些告誡戶，我希望你們研議出一個專門的方法，或者是救濟的方法。"],["彭主任委員金隆：就是把告誡戶做等級的區分。"],["黃委員珊珊：是。有不起訴處分的是一種，其他的狀況是一種，因為他的確沒有把自己的帳號密碼給人家，他也沒有把這個錢提出去給詐騙集團，他就是賣了一個東西，他真的也付出了那個東西，然後他的帳號被拿去做成詐騙的帳號，雖然錢進到他的帳戶內，他沒有領出來，他也沒有交給別人，但是他還是變成詐騙集團的共犯，而且最後他可能獲得不起訴處分了，但是這個部分沒有辦法取消他的告誡戶，這個問題很多，而且有幾十萬人。主委，不能再拖了，我們越聽越多，多到已經不知道該怎麼處理了。"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個我再請我們同仁來進一步瞭解，看看怎麼處理。"],["黃委員珊珊：你趕快找法務部，找警政署，看看是不是用警示帳戶的方式，對告誡戶有另外一個救濟的機制，否則到今天為止，這些人真的就是受害的第三人。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，也麻煩委員提供幾個個案給我們。"],["黃委員珊珊：我們這邊個案很多，我相信立法委員手裡的個案應該不少，這個部分金管會應該也收到很多資料。首先，我希望你們訂出一個相關的機制，如果他已經取得起訴處分了，裡面的認定方式，法院都幫你們做了調查，這些可以優先處理吧？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對。這個還牽涉到法務部，因為子法是他們訂的，我們會跟法務部聯繫，討論要怎麼處理。"],["黃委員珊珊：是。上一次委員會下附帶決議就是這個道理，因為這些人的確沒有救濟管道，他被告誡以後拿到不起訴處分書，還是沒有辦法取消他的告誡戶身分，這個有點離譜啊。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們會跟法務部協調看看怎麼處理。"],["黃委員珊珊：另外一個問題就是，上一次有一個國際通緝犯，就是西班牙籍的男子奧納德，2019年在義大利詐欺了10億元後逃逸，後來被發現他在臺灣過得很舒服，非常開心，最嚴重的是，他竟然在臺灣登記了公司，還開了銀行的帳戶，後來我們請銀行局去查，來，局長，你們查的結果如何？"],["莊局長琇媛：報告委員，我們總共查到有8家銀行和他有往來，然後分別有他擔任負責人，或是他自己本人也有開戶，我們查到了之後，已經跟銀行說，這個人既然已經有案在身，因為剛開始銀行是……"],["黃委員珊珊：2019年他就上了新聞，國際的資料庫都有。"],["莊局長琇媛：對。因為後來銀行也有在資料庫裡面查到負面的新聞，所以有些銀行已經做控管了，不過後來因為最後他已經被……"],["黃委員珊珊：在開戶的時候都沒有查，是嗎？"],["莊局長琇媛：這個可能牽涉到也許是有資訊的落差。"],["黃委員珊珊：我現在要問的是：還有沒有下一個？現在所有在臺灣的公司負責人是外國人的，這些KYC都做好了嗎？"],["莊局長琇媛：因為這一次的事件，我們也有發函給各個銀行，就是說他們從KYC上……"],["黃委員珊珊：他們有回報現在他們清查的結果，還有做相關的機制或處理了嗎？資料庫都survey過一次了嗎？"],["莊局長琇媛：對，所以後續我們也會再請銀行以後要做回溯性的清查，從這件事件來看……"],["黃委員珊珊：不是以後，局長，我要的是進度，你回溯性的清查已經做了多少？做了多少家？做了多少人？而不是只是發函。你發了函，他們有回函嗎？有相關的統計嗎？如果你發現了問題，要不要做一些一次的清查？可以給他們時間，但是不能只是發函。"],["莊局長琇媛：好，委員，我們後續再從這方面……"],["黃委員珊珊：我給你一個月的時間請他們回報他們清查的結果。"],["莊局長琇媛：好，是。"],["黃委員珊珊：如果回溯，你可以先回溯幾年，再回溯幾年，慢慢查，但是總是要有進度，而且資料庫就在那裡，有相關的人，有相關的資料，上去查就查得到，KYC不就是應該做這件事嗎？我們現在的百姓不是常常收到銀行通知要來更新資料，不更新的話，銀行就要怎樣怎樣，那對這些外國人，尤其是可能有國際通緝犯身分的這些人，他們竟然在臺灣可以過得這麼爽，而且被發現以後才發現他開了8個銀行帳戶，這麼多年，我們的洗錢防制可能都淪為空談，我們要求的KYC都是空的，這很可怕。","局長，我給你一個月的時間，請你回覆你們去清查KYC的資料的情形。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，委員講的，我們會請他們儘快來處理。"],["黃委員珊珊：好。主委，我最後一個問題，就是現在金融機構為了國際競爭，大概都會開始陸陸續續合併，現在的新光要被併，但是後來才赫然發現這兩個銀行都沒有工會。"],["彭主任委員金隆：他們現在成立了。"],["黃委員珊珊：現在在成立，這是很奇怪的事。也就是說，我們看了全金聯他們的企業工會，目前只有37家，所以不是每個銀行都有工會，是嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：現在應該不是所有金融機構都有。"],["黃委員珊珊：是。但是金融機構被併的時候，就突然間趕快匆匆忙忙地成立工會，之前包括富邦金併購日盛金，花旗讓售星展，這些都發生過很多的風風雨雨，之前更早的就是元大併大眾，這些併購已經成為常態了，我們現在看到勞動部可能希望能夠訂出「金融機構合併勞工勞動權益保障行政指引」，也就是這麼多年有這麼多機構已經併過，而且問題都差不多，甚至對於安置，尤其是沒有工會的銀行對他們的勞工更沒有保障，要靠這些全金聯或其他的工會來幫他的忙，所以主委，我只想問：金融合併是金管會支持的政策吧？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我講過很多次，良質的合併有……"],["黃委員珊珊：都是可以的，所以它一定會有員工權益保障的問題。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，那也是我們在審查時很重要的一項。"],["黃委員珊珊：是審查很重要的一個項目，但是內容、員工、工會，如果可以的話，我們應該鼓勵各金融機構成立工會，而不是到要合併的時候才赫然發現它沒工會要趕快來成立，工會沒有運作過其實很難達到一定的成果，你同意嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個我們會跟勞動部……"],["黃委員珊珊：資方都不喜歡成立工會啦！但是銀行局應該去鼓勵相關單位儘量成立工會，尤其是勞動部跟銀行局應該是讓銀行的管理對員工的保障納入正軌，有工會的銀行跟沒有工會的銀行對於勞工的保障當然會有影響，雖然我們不能期待有很棒的老闆，可能也有慣老闆，誰知道？所以鼓勵銀行成立工會也應該是金管會推動的業務吧？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想這應該是勞動部，我們站在金融監理的角度會來……"],["黃委員珊珊：你們不反對嘛！所以也希望銀行不要去阻止銀行的內部員工……"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們不會阻止，這是他們的權利。"],["黃委員珊珊：而且要保障他們成立工會的權益。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們是希望有一個公平的交易。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以希望你們現在就協助相關的銀行員工，將來除了審查之外，我希望工會的成立還有合併的時候權益保障的行政指引，金管會要大力介入好嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們大概會按照我們的立場來執行。"],["黃委員珊珊：怎麼樣儘量保障員工的權益，因為他們才是金融的資產。"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然，保障所有利害關係人都是我們的職責。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，所以我希望勞動部的這個行政指引，金管會能夠熱烈的參與，而且聽取工會的意見。"],["彭主任委員金隆：他們會邀我們參與。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，謝謝主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝黃珊珊委員。","接著請謝龍介委員，謝龍介委員、謝龍介委員，謝龍介委員不在場。","接下來請郭國文委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-11","speakers":["陳玉珍","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","賴惠員","王鴻薇","李坤城","李彥秀","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","郭國文","洪孟楷","羅明才","葉元之","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":209,"meetingDate":["2024-12-19"],"gazette_id":"1140901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關金融監督管理委員會、銀行局、證券期貨局、\n保險局、檢查局收支部分（僅詢答）；二、審查中華民國 114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預\n算營業部分，有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份有限公司（僅詢答）；三、審查中\n華民國 114 年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分，有關金融監督管理委員會主管：\n（僅詢答）(一)特別收入基金─金融監督管理基金、(二)信託基金─保險業務發展基金","agenda_id":"1140901_00002"}}}