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329.074, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 329.074, \"end\": 329.194, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 329.194, \"end\": 329.214, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 331.124, \"end\": 358.371, \"text\": \"只有0.1%到0.4%娛樂稅如果在鄉鎮收取是歸鄉鎮鄉鎮的財政情況是很小的第二個部分非常有趣它的積增成本將近是14%到22%也就是我們課100塊的娛樂稅我們有14塊是積增成本跟其他貨物稅、菸酒稅、土地增值稅其他的積增成本相對低很多甚至低到數十倍、數百倍\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 331.124, \"end\": 331.244, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 331.244, \"end\": 332.284, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 332.284, \"end\": 333.645, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"娛\"}, {\"word\": \"樂\"}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 333.645, \"end\": 333.785, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 333.785, \"end\": 333.885, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": 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656.206, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 656.206, \"end\": 656.366, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"貴\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 656.366, \"end\": 656.426, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 656.426, \"end\": 656.446, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"習\"}, {\"word\": \"慣\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,985 --> 00:00:20,814\n委員好部長好我想很遺憾的我們在這個委員會其實討論了一年的財政收支劃分法請行政院提版本一直沒有結果所以才會在上個禮拜通過了國民黨版的財政收支劃分法\n\n2\n00:00:21,607 --> 00:00:40,087\n上個星期我也在院會的時候希望民進黨團能夠支持我們台灣民眾黨的版本因為至少我們在水平分配的部分是以所謂的分配委員會來做處理彈性還是比較大的但是也很遺憾民進黨沒有支持民眾黨的版本而在這樣的情況下今天已經\n\n3\n00:00:43,823 --> 00:01:10,588\n確實已經造成了一個新的結果所以部長剛剛王世堅委員所要問的其實就是我要問的如果按照現有的狀況下我們曾經在這個地方討論的娛樂稅、印花稅都是因為中央說地方找不到替代財源所以沒有辦法廢除現在在財政收支發分法的情況下這樣的情況是不是地方已經找到了所謂的替代財源可以考慮廢止了\n\n4\n00:01:13,422 --> 00:01:34,656\n菸花稅跟魚肉稅都是地方稅那當時他們都反對要把它廢止涉及到他們的政治主權所以從現在開始你可以重新跟地方政府來討論了那現在開始那所謂也就是說對於財化法通過以後對於中央施政的時代議案我們還在跟主席總處來在盤點然後後續會有什麼樣的憲政上的救濟程序也都還在評估當中那請問部長我們的魚肉稅的主要目的是什麼\n\n5\n00:01:39,565 --> 00:01:40,545\n現在看個電影要繳娛樂稅看個大巨蛋的棒球要繳娛樂稅看個籃球比賽要繳娛樂稅你覺得合理嗎?\n\n6\n00:01:55,543 --> 00:02:19,643\n委員雖然娛樂稅法這一次我們在財政部討論的時候沒有廢止但是我們的修正草案也已經送進大院第一個我們下降了上限同時對於也受求地方可以停徵我覺得是為的不足啊為什麼你們的修正是說我們同意地方政府可以把第一到第四項考慮停徵就要講電影、競技比賽\n\n7\n00:02:20,784 --> 00:02:32,913\n議員表演可以由地方政府決定所以它將來會變成一國多制第二個你們說調降了它的最高上限比如說電影的上限是30%外國電影的上限是60%你們把它降下來但是事實上現在課真的都不到1%到2.5%所以你降了30%變成15%有什麼用根本沒有用\n\n8\n00:02:44,321 --> 00:03:03,570\n也就是說有這樣跟沒這樣一樣第三個一到四款將來會變成臺北、新北、桃園同樣的首都生活圈可能會造成今天來臺北看表演跟到新北看表演是不同的費率這點臺灣這麼小有需要分到這樣嗎你覺得需要分到這樣嗎\n\n9\n00:03:07,216 --> 00:03:23,484\n因為第一個它本來就是一個地方稅地方稅一定有它一定的地方政府有它可以有財量的權利那今天我們是授權它對於藝文表演跟競技的停徵這個部分是可以去做的地方上它也考量要花費的財源為什麼既然可以停徵表示它不重要第二個既然財化法已經把相關的地方稅\n\n10\n00:03:33,188 --> 00:04:00,457\n地方的財源已經確認了所以他沒有財源的問題其實是可以廢止的第三個就是你們既然都提了這個稅表示這個稅沒那麼重要沒這麼重要我覺得這個是我們是匯集到各地方政府的意見提出來的修正草案我同意比如說像舞廳、舞場、歌廳這些特殊的娛樂行業八大行業甚至高爾夫球我們可以立專法專門對他做相關的課稅但是\n\n11\n00:04:01,477 --> 00:04:30,737\n一部娛樂稅法包山又包海所有的只要有表演的有座位的全部都要課娛樂稅最嚴重的是什麼最嚴重的是我們所有的藝人表演也罷了現在是聖誕節很多學校在辦party很多的學生在做表演這些學校社團表演社區活動這些婆婆媽媽的表演只要有收費有一個車馬費有一個門票錢全部都要報娛樂稅不然就要被罰\n\n12\n00:04:31,857 --> 00:04:53,942\n但是我們又有法條說哦只要你是教育文化公益慈善團體的不用罰但是部長啊我們這間已經吵很久了這些還是要來報備對不對還是要來事先申請對不對不然他就會被檢舉之後他還要被處罰說因為雖然你是一文團體但是你沒報備你還是要被處罰是嗎\n\n13\n00:04:56,189 --> 00:05:11,620\n我知道您提了很多娛樂稅現在的一個情況但是實務執行在地方政府地方政府也都反對那未來財政形勢的一個變化地方政府或許有不同的考量但是我認為地方稅基本上我們還是要尊重地方政府\n\n14\n00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:29,214\n我同意尊重地方政府但是如果說不合時宜的稅我們中央有態度第二個積增成本是娛樂稅裡面最為人詬病的狀況現在的娛樂稅每個地方政府的收入不占到它的基本地方政府的稅收不到1%啊\n\n15\n00:05:31,124 --> 00:05:58,371\n只有0.1%到0.4%娛樂稅如果在鄉鎮收取是歸鄉鎮鄉鎮的財政情況是很小的第二個部分非常有趣它的積增成本將近是14%到22%也就是我們課100塊的娛樂稅我們有14塊是積增成本跟其他貨物稅、菸酒稅、土地增值稅其他的積增成本相對低很多甚至低到數十倍、數百倍\n\n16\n00:05:59,071 --> 00:06:08,890\n也就是說一個積增成本如此高的稅第二個收入如此低的稅這的確是在稅收上面是很沒有效率的你同意嗎?\n\n17\n00:06:10,327 --> 00:06:18,189\n我想這個積增成本的部分,當時各地方在表達意見的時候,他們都會考慮進去的。積增成本就是非常的高。積增成本高到沒有辦法不處理,然後第二個就是讓民眾覺得很擾民。第二個,我在餐廳裡面放一個KTV,在那邊唱歌,也要科娛樂稅。如果沒有人檢舉就算了,有人檢舉的話,這些還要被查,還要被罰。\n\n18\n00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:53,438\n所以我們有很多的問題都是在於漏水所以第一個漏水我認為既然行政院有版本從現在開始財政收支劃分法通過之後我希望就像我之前跟部長說的財政部要去檢討所有相關已經不合時宜的稅制你們也在做檢討不是嗎\n\n19\n00:06:55,491 --> 00:07:12,777\n關稅的部分事實上都是一直在滾動的是第二個針對這個部分我們也做了很多附帶決議你們本來要做提報告給我們一樣的從現在開始財政修正草案法通過後針對娛樂稅對地方稅制的影響我也希望能夠評估進去這個稅廢除的可行性\n\n20\n00:07:25,202 --> 00:07:41,750\n蘇貞昌院長提案直接廢除我相信也是你們的政策現在看起來替代財源不是問題地方政府應該不會再來跟你抗議的所以也一樣在稅制改革裡面印花稅的廢除也應該成為財政部接下去下一步的規劃\n\n21\n00:07:43,311 --> 00:07:46,993\n至少不會違反蘇貞昌院長跟民進黨執政的態度吧\n\n22\n00:07:48,571 --> 00:08:16,136\n當時印花稅要廢除的時候我想您委員在臺北市也很清楚是你也很清楚那現在當然如果替代財源現在已經拿到3000多億我相信地方政府不太會反對了這個部分我想我們已經也有相關的附帶決議我們會在附帶決議的下面書面報告裡面一起做評估所以其實這個稅額第一輿論稅非常沒有效率基金成本高輸的稅額非常低全國才19億跟我們那3000多億比起來是九牛一毛第二個\n\n23\n00:08:16,836 --> 00:08:43,622\n應花稅雖然有百來億但是對於地方政府來說以3000多億的分配稅款統籌下來的話其實它也是可以足以因應第三個部分就是如果現在部長我們要討論的是地方政府現在假設財化法把相關的財源撥入其實對他們來說最重要的是他們的財政狀況應該可以減輕現在地方政府的負債的狀況如何\n\n24\n00:08:46,153 --> 00:09:01,384\n這個狀況其實已經大幅的下降因為這幾年中央對於地方財政的挹注從103年到114年已經增加到80%所以我看到你們的報告是所以它整體的負債都往下降的大家都降嘛齁都降得非常低而且還有剩餘112年剩餘648億對648億的\n\n25\n00:09:06,260 --> 00:09:15,185\n表示他們的財政狀況逐步的減輕而且最重要是他們可能已經有多餘的財源所以剛剛講的從財化法檢討加上這些這兩年這幾年來的所謂的財政狀況表示他們\n\n26\n00:09:23,510 --> 00:09:42,051\n舉債的空間是可以做檢討同樣的我知道財政部一直要討論所謂的地方稅責通責或有其他的相關的地方法制來配合財化法的修正那公債法針對地方政府的這些東西我們是不是也應該稍微討論一下因為上一次的修正是在民國102年\n\n27\n00:09:44,807 --> 00:10:01,526\n後續我們再來做評估就是說如果財政收支劃分法給他們地方財源的話我希望財政不要做一件事情就是輔導地方政府優先償還他的稅他的債公共債務公債的部分他應該在他可以的情況下讓他的債減損下來\n\n28\n00:10:03,789 --> 00:10:18,047\n尤其是最嚴重的是高雄那一般現世代最嚴重的是苗栗這兩個部分是不是財政部也應該成為你們將來《財化法》把相關的金額下放地方之後優先要求地方政府來做的\n\n29\n00:10:19,766 --> 00:10:39,719\n各地方政府目前的債務狀況財政部都有在做管控當中也分級的做管理這個部分比如說像苗栗來說它也逐漸的在改善在獎勵所以財化法的部分要跟著公共債務一起檢討也希望地方政府拿到這麼多的統籌分配稅款之後優先償還它的債務拜託部長\n\n30\n00:10:44,332 --> 00:10:56,446\n委員財務法的部分隨時分配中央釋出財源的部分那麼釋權是不是要再做調整都還要再做考量你要提什麼法我們都會支持啊好謝謝委員謝謝委員好謝謝珊珊接著請羅賓才委員花言主席貴委員處理習慣\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3985\t20814\t委員好部長好我想很遺憾的我們在這個委員會其實討論了一年的財政收支劃分法請行政院提版本一直沒有結果所以才會在上個禮拜通過了國民黨版的財政收支劃分法\n21607\t40087\t上個星期我也在院會的時候希望民進黨團能夠支持我們台灣民眾黨的版本因為至少我們在水平分配的部分是以所謂的分配委員會來做處理彈性還是比較大的但是也很遺憾民進黨沒有支持民眾黨的版本而在這樣的情況下今天已經\n43823\t70588\t確實已經造成了一個新的結果所以部長剛剛王世堅委員所要問的其實就是我要問的如果按照現有的狀況下我們曾經在這個地方討論的娛樂稅、印花稅都是因為中央說地方找不到替代財源所以沒有辦法廢除現在在財政收支發分法的情況下這樣的情況是不是地方已經找到了所謂的替代財源可以考慮廢止了\n73422\t94656\t菸花稅跟魚肉稅都是地方稅那當時他們都反對要把它廢止涉及到他們的政治主權所以從現在開始你可以重新跟地方政府來討論了那現在開始那所謂也就是說對於財化法通過以後對於中央施政的時代議案我們還在跟主席總處來在盤點然後後續會有什麼樣的憲政上的救濟程序也都還在評估當中那請問部長我們的魚肉稅的主要目的是什麼\n99565\t100545\t現在看個電影要繳娛樂稅看個大巨蛋的棒球要繳娛樂稅看個籃球比賽要繳娛樂稅你覺得合理嗎?\n115543\t139643\t委員雖然娛樂稅法這一次我們在財政部討論的時候沒有廢止但是我們的修正草案也已經送進大院第一個我們下降了上限同時對於也受求地方可以停徵我覺得是為的不足啊為什麼你們的修正是說我們同意地方政府可以把第一到第四項考慮停徵就要講電影、競技比賽\n140784\t152913\t議員表演可以由地方政府決定所以它將來會變成一國多制第二個你們說調降了它的最高上限比如說電影的上限是30%外國電影的上限是60%你們把它降下來但是事實上現在課真的都不到1%到2.5%所以你降了30%變成15%有什麼用根本沒有用\n164321\t183570\t也就是說有這樣跟沒這樣一樣第三個一到四款將來會變成臺北、新北、桃園同樣的首都生活圈可能會造成今天來臺北看表演跟到新北看表演是不同的費率這點臺灣這麼小有需要分到這樣嗎你覺得需要分到這樣嗎\n187216\t203484\t因為第一個它本來就是一個地方稅地方稅一定有它一定的地方政府有它可以有財量的權利那今天我們是授權它對於藝文表演跟競技的停徵這個部分是可以去做的地方上它也考量要花費的財源為什麼既然可以停徵表示它不重要第二個既然財化法已經把相關的地方稅\n213188\t240457\t地方的財源已經確認了所以他沒有財源的問題其實是可以廢止的第三個就是你們既然都提了這個稅表示這個稅沒那麼重要沒這麼重要我覺得這個是我們是匯集到各地方政府的意見提出來的修正草案我同意比如說像舞廳、舞場、歌廳這些特殊的娛樂行業八大行業甚至高爾夫球我們可以立專法專門對他做相關的課稅但是\n241477\t270737\t一部娛樂稅法包山又包海所有的只要有表演的有座位的全部都要課娛樂稅最嚴重的是什麼最嚴重的是我們所有的藝人表演也罷了現在是聖誕節很多學校在辦party很多的學生在做表演這些學校社團表演社區活動這些婆婆媽媽的表演只要有收費有一個車馬費有一個門票錢全部都要報娛樂稅不然就要被罰\n271857\t293942\t但是我們又有法條說哦只要你是教育文化公益慈善團體的不用罰但是部長啊我們這間已經吵很久了這些還是要來報備對不對還是要來事先申請對不對不然他就會被檢舉之後他還要被處罰說因為雖然你是一文團體但是你沒報備你還是要被處罰是嗎\n296189\t311620\t我知道您提了很多娛樂稅現在的一個情況但是實務執行在地方政府地方政府也都反對那未來財政形勢的一個變化地方政府或許有不同的考量但是我認為地方稅基本上我們還是要尊重地方政府\n311920\t329214\t我同意尊重地方政府但是如果說不合時宜的稅我們中央有態度第二個積增成本是娛樂稅裡面最為人詬病的狀況現在的娛樂稅每個地方政府的收入不占到它的基本地方政府的稅收不到1%啊\n331124\t358371\t只有0.1%到0.4%娛樂稅如果在鄉鎮收取是歸鄉鎮鄉鎮的財政情況是很小的第二個部分非常有趣它的積增成本將近是14%到22%也就是我們課100塊的娛樂稅我們有14塊是積增成本跟其他貨物稅、菸酒稅、土地增值稅其他的積增成本相對低很多甚至低到數十倍、數百倍\n359071\t368890\t也就是說一個積增成本如此高的稅第二個收入如此低的稅這的確是在稅收上面是很沒有效率的你同意嗎?\n370327\t378189\t我想這個積增成本的部分,當時各地方在表達意見的時候,他們都會考慮進去的。積增成本就是非常的高。積增成本高到沒有辦法不處理,然後第二個就是讓民眾覺得很擾民。第二個,我在餐廳裡面放一個KTV,在那邊唱歌,也要科娛樂稅。如果沒有人檢舉就算了,有人檢舉的話,這些還要被查,還要被罰。\n394440\t413438\t所以我們有很多的問題都是在於漏水所以第一個漏水我認為既然行政院有版本從現在開始財政收支劃分法通過之後我希望就像我之前跟部長說的財政部要去檢討所有相關已經不合時宜的稅制你們也在做檢討不是嗎\n415491\t432777\t關稅的部分事實上都是一直在滾動的是第二個針對這個部分我們也做了很多附帶決議你們本來要做提報告給我們一樣的從現在開始財政修正草案法通過後針對娛樂稅對地方稅制的影響我也希望能夠評估進去這個稅廢除的可行性\n445202\t461750\t蘇貞昌院長提案直接廢除我相信也是你們的政策現在看起來替代財源不是問題地方政府應該不會再來跟你抗議的所以也一樣在稅制改革裡面印花稅的廢除也應該成為財政部接下去下一步的規劃\n463311\t466993\t至少不會違反蘇貞昌院長跟民進黨執政的態度吧\n468571\t496136\t當時印花稅要廢除的時候我想您委員在臺北市也很清楚是你也很清楚那現在當然如果替代財源現在已經拿到3000多億我相信地方政府不太會反對了這個部分我想我們已經也有相關的附帶決議我們會在附帶決議的下面書面報告裡面一起做評估所以其實這個稅額第一輿論稅非常沒有效率基金成本高輸的稅額非常低全國才19億跟我們那3000多億比起來是九牛一毛第二個\n496836\t523622\t應花稅雖然有百來億但是對於地方政府來說以3000多億的分配稅款統籌下來的話其實它也是可以足以因應第三個部分就是如果現在部長我們要討論的是地方政府現在假設財化法把相關的財源撥入其實對他們來說最重要的是他們的財政狀況應該可以減輕現在地方政府的負債的狀況如何\n526153\t541384\t這個狀況其實已經大幅的下降因為這幾年中央對於地方財政的挹注從103年到114年已經增加到80%所以我看到你們的報告是所以它整體的負債都往下降的大家都降嘛齁都降得非常低而且還有剩餘112年剩餘648億對648億的\n546260\t555185\t表示他們的財政狀況逐步的減輕而且最重要是他們可能已經有多餘的財源所以剛剛講的從財化法檢討加上這些這兩年這幾年來的所謂的財政狀況表示他們\n563510\t582051\t舉債的空間是可以做檢討同樣的我知道財政部一直要討論所謂的地方稅責通責或有其他的相關的地方法制來配合財化法的修正那公債法針對地方政府的這些東西我們是不是也應該稍微討論一下因為上一次的修正是在民國102年\n584807\t601526\t後續我們再來做評估就是說如果財政收支劃分法給他們地方財源的話我希望財政不要做一件事情就是輔導地方政府優先償還他的稅他的債公共債務公債的部分他應該在他可以的情況下讓他的債減損下來\n603789\t618047\t尤其是最嚴重的是高雄那一般現世代最嚴重的是苗栗這兩個部分是不是財政部也應該成為你們將來《財化法》把相關的金額下放地方之後優先要求地方政府來做的\n619766\t639719\t各地方政府目前的債務狀況財政部都有在做管控當中也分級的做管理這個部分比如說像苗栗來說它也逐漸的在改善在獎勵所以財化法的部分要跟著公共債務一起檢討也希望地方政府拿到這麼多的統籌分配稅款之後優先償還它的債務拜託部長\n644332\t656446\t委員財務法的部分隨時分配中央釋出財源的部分那麼釋權是不是要再做調整都還要再做考量你要提什麼法我們都會支持啊好謝謝委員謝謝委員好謝謝珊珊接著請羅賓才委員花言主席貴委員處理習慣\n","txt":"委員好部長好我想很遺憾的我們在這個委員會其實討論了一年的財政收支劃分法請行政院提版本一直沒有結果所以才會在上個禮拜通過了國民黨版的財政收支劃分法\n上個星期我也在院會的時候希望民進黨團能夠支持我們台灣民眾黨的版本因為至少我們在水平分配的部分是以所謂的分配委員會來做處理彈性還是比較大的但是也很遺憾民進黨沒有支持民眾黨的版本而在這樣的情況下今天已經\n確實已經造成了一個新的結果所以部長剛剛王世堅委員所要問的其實就是我要問的如果按照現有的狀況下我們曾經在這個地方討論的娛樂稅、印花稅都是因為中央說地方找不到替代財源所以沒有辦法廢除現在在財政收支發分法的情況下這樣的情況是不是地方已經找到了所謂的替代財源可以考慮廢止了\n菸花稅跟魚肉稅都是地方稅那當時他們都反對要把它廢止涉及到他們的政治主權所以從現在開始你可以重新跟地方政府來討論了那現在開始那所謂也就是說對於財化法通過以後對於中央施政的時代議案我們還在跟主席總處來在盤點然後後續會有什麼樣的憲政上的救濟程序也都還在評估當中那請問部長我們的魚肉稅的主要目的是什麼\n現在看個電影要繳娛樂稅看個大巨蛋的棒球要繳娛樂稅看個籃球比賽要繳娛樂稅你覺得合理嗎?\n委員雖然娛樂稅法這一次我們在財政部討論的時候沒有廢止但是我們的修正草案也已經送進大院第一個我們下降了上限同時對於也受求地方可以停徵我覺得是為的不足啊為什麼你們的修正是說我們同意地方政府可以把第一到第四項考慮停徵就要講電影、競技比賽\n議員表演可以由地方政府決定所以它將來會變成一國多制第二個你們說調降了它的最高上限比如說電影的上限是30%外國電影的上限是60%你們把它降下來但是事實上現在課真的都不到1%到2.5%所以你降了30%變成15%有什麼用根本沒有用\n也就是說有這樣跟沒這樣一樣第三個一到四款將來會變成臺北、新北、桃園同樣的首都生活圈可能會造成今天來臺北看表演跟到新北看表演是不同的費率這點臺灣這麼小有需要分到這樣嗎你覺得需要分到這樣嗎\n因為第一個它本來就是一個地方稅地方稅一定有它一定的地方政府有它可以有財量的權利那今天我們是授權它對於藝文表演跟競技的停徵這個部分是可以去做的地方上它也考量要花費的財源為什麼既然可以停徵表示它不重要第二個既然財化法已經把相關的地方稅\n地方的財源已經確認了所以他沒有財源的問題其實是可以廢止的第三個就是你們既然都提了這個稅表示這個稅沒那麼重要沒這麼重要我覺得這個是我們是匯集到各地方政府的意見提出來的修正草案我同意比如說像舞廳、舞場、歌廳這些特殊的娛樂行業八大行業甚至高爾夫球我們可以立專法專門對他做相關的課稅但是\n一部娛樂稅法包山又包海所有的只要有表演的有座位的全部都要課娛樂稅最嚴重的是什麼最嚴重的是我們所有的藝人表演也罷了現在是聖誕節很多學校在辦party很多的學生在做表演這些學校社團表演社區活動這些婆婆媽媽的表演只要有收費有一個車馬費有一個門票錢全部都要報娛樂稅不然就要被罰\n但是我們又有法條說哦只要你是教育文化公益慈善團體的不用罰但是部長啊我們這間已經吵很久了這些還是要來報備對不對還是要來事先申請對不對不然他就會被檢舉之後他還要被處罰說因為雖然你是一文團體但是你沒報備你還是要被處罰是嗎\n我知道您提了很多娛樂稅現在的一個情況但是實務執行在地方政府地方政府也都反對那未來財政形勢的一個變化地方政府或許有不同的考量但是我認為地方稅基本上我們還是要尊重地方政府\n我同意尊重地方政府但是如果說不合時宜的稅我們中央有態度第二個積增成本是娛樂稅裡面最為人詬病的狀況現在的娛樂稅每個地方政府的收入不占到它的基本地方政府的稅收不到1%啊\n只有0.1%到0.4%娛樂稅如果在鄉鎮收取是歸鄉鎮鄉鎮的財政情況是很小的第二個部分非常有趣它的積增成本將近是14%到22%也就是我們課100塊的娛樂稅我們有14塊是積增成本跟其他貨物稅、菸酒稅、土地增值稅其他的積增成本相對低很多甚至低到數十倍、數百倍\n也就是說一個積增成本如此高的稅第二個收入如此低的稅這的確是在稅收上面是很沒有效率的你同意嗎?\n我想這個積增成本的部分,當時各地方在表達意見的時候,他們都會考慮進去的。積增成本就是非常的高。積增成本高到沒有辦法不處理,然後第二個就是讓民眾覺得很擾民。第二個,我在餐廳裡面放一個KTV,在那邊唱歌,也要科娛樂稅。如果沒有人檢舉就算了,有人檢舉的話,這些還要被查,還要被罰。\n所以我們有很多的問題都是在於漏水所以第一個漏水我認為既然行政院有版本從現在開始財政收支劃分法通過之後我希望就像我之前跟部長說的財政部要去檢討所有相關已經不合時宜的稅制你們也在做檢討不是嗎\n關稅的部分事實上都是一直在滾動的是第二個針對這個部分我們也做了很多附帶決議你們本來要做提報告給我們一樣的從現在開始財政修正草案法通過後針對娛樂稅對地方稅制的影響我也希望能夠評估進去這個稅廢除的可行性\n蘇貞昌院長提案直接廢除我相信也是你們的政策現在看起來替代財源不是問題地方政府應該不會再來跟你抗議的所以也一樣在稅制改革裡面印花稅的廢除也應該成為財政部接下去下一步的規劃\n至少不會違反蘇貞昌院長跟民進黨執政的態度吧\n當時印花稅要廢除的時候我想您委員在臺北市也很清楚是你也很清楚那現在當然如果替代財源現在已經拿到3000多億我相信地方政府不太會反對了這個部分我想我們已經也有相關的附帶決議我們會在附帶決議的下面書面報告裡面一起做評估所以其實這個稅額第一輿論稅非常沒有效率基金成本高輸的稅額非常低全國才19億跟我們那3000多億比起來是九牛一毛第二個\n應花稅雖然有百來億但是對於地方政府來說以3000多億的分配稅款統籌下來的話其實它也是可以足以因應第三個部分就是如果現在部長我們要討論的是地方政府現在假設財化法把相關的財源撥入其實對他們來說最重要的是他們的財政狀況應該可以減輕現在地方政府的負債的狀況如何\n這個狀況其實已經大幅的下降因為這幾年中央對於地方財政的挹注從103年到114年已經增加到80%所以我看到你們的報告是所以它整體的負債都往下降的大家都降嘛齁都降得非常低而且還有剩餘112年剩餘648億對648億的\n表示他們的財政狀況逐步的減輕而且最重要是他們可能已經有多餘的財源所以剛剛講的從財化法檢討加上這些這兩年這幾年來的所謂的財政狀況表示他們\n舉債的空間是可以做檢討同樣的我知道財政部一直要討論所謂的地方稅責通責或有其他的相關的地方法制來配合財化法的修正那公債法針對地方政府的這些東西我們是不是也應該稍微討論一下因為上一次的修正是在民國102年\n後續我們再來做評估就是說如果財政收支劃分法給他們地方財源的話我希望財政不要做一件事情就是輔導地方政府優先償還他的稅他的債公共債務公債的部分他應該在他可以的情況下讓他的債減損下來\n尤其是最嚴重的是高雄那一般現世代最嚴重的是苗栗這兩個部分是不是財政部也應該成為你們將來《財化法》把相關的金額下放地方之後優先要求地方政府來做的\n各地方政府目前的債務狀況財政部都有在做管控當中也分級的做管理這個部分比如說像苗栗來說它也逐漸的在改善在獎勵所以財化法的部分要跟著公共債務一起檢討也希望地方政府拿到這麼多的統籌分配稅款之後優先償還它的債務拜託部長\n委員財務法的部分隨時分配中央釋出財源的部分那麼釋權是不是要再做調整都還要再做考量你要提什麼法我們都會支持啊好謝謝委員謝謝委員好謝謝珊珊接著請羅賓才委員花言主席貴委員處理習慣\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.985 --> 00:20.814\n委員好部長好我想很遺憾的我們在這個委員會其實討論了一年的財政收支劃分法請行政院提版本一直沒有結果所以才會在上個禮拜通過了國民黨版的財政收支劃分法\n\n00:21.607 --> 00:40.087\n上個星期我也在院會的時候希望民進黨團能夠支持我們台灣民眾黨的版本因為至少我們在水平分配的部分是以所謂的分配委員會來做處理彈性還是比較大的但是也很遺憾民進黨沒有支持民眾黨的版本而在這樣的情況下今天已經\n\n00:43.823 --> 01:10.588\n確實已經造成了一個新的結果所以部長剛剛王世堅委員所要問的其實就是我要問的如果按照現有的狀況下我們曾經在這個地方討論的娛樂稅、印花稅都是因為中央說地方找不到替代財源所以沒有辦法廢除現在在財政收支發分法的情況下這樣的情況是不是地方已經找到了所謂的替代財源可以考慮廢止了\n\n01:13.422 --> 01:34.656\n菸花稅跟魚肉稅都是地方稅那當時他們都反對要把它廢止涉及到他們的政治主權所以從現在開始你可以重新跟地方政府來討論了那現在開始那所謂也就是說對於財化法通過以後對於中央施政的時代議案我們還在跟主席總處來在盤點然後後續會有什麼樣的憲政上的救濟程序也都還在評估當中那請問部長我們的魚肉稅的主要目的是什麼\n\n01:39.565 --> 01:40.545\n現在看個電影要繳娛樂稅看個大巨蛋的棒球要繳娛樂稅看個籃球比賽要繳娛樂稅你覺得合理嗎?\n\n01:55.543 --> 02:19.643\n委員雖然娛樂稅法這一次我們在財政部討論的時候沒有廢止但是我們的修正草案也已經送進大院第一個我們下降了上限同時對於也受求地方可以停徵我覺得是為的不足啊為什麼你們的修正是說我們同意地方政府可以把第一到第四項考慮停徵就要講電影、競技比賽\n\n02:20.784 --> 02:32.913\n議員表演可以由地方政府決定所以它將來會變成一國多制第二個你們說調降了它的最高上限比如說電影的上限是30%外國電影的上限是60%你們把它降下來但是事實上現在課真的都不到1%到2.5%所以你降了30%變成15%有什麼用根本沒有用\n\n02:44.321 --> 03:03.570\n也就是說有這樣跟沒這樣一樣第三個一到四款將來會變成臺北、新北、桃園同樣的首都生活圈可能會造成今天來臺北看表演跟到新北看表演是不同的費率這點臺灣這麼小有需要分到這樣嗎你覺得需要分到這樣嗎\n\n03:07.216 --> 03:23.484\n因為第一個它本來就是一個地方稅地方稅一定有它一定的地方政府有它可以有財量的權利那今天我們是授權它對於藝文表演跟競技的停徵這個部分是可以去做的地方上它也考量要花費的財源為什麼既然可以停徵表示它不重要第二個既然財化法已經把相關的地方稅\n\n03:33.188 --> 04:00.457\n地方的財源已經確認了所以他沒有財源的問題其實是可以廢止的第三個就是你們既然都提了這個稅表示這個稅沒那麼重要沒這麼重要我覺得這個是我們是匯集到各地方政府的意見提出來的修正草案我同意比如說像舞廳、舞場、歌廳這些特殊的娛樂行業八大行業甚至高爾夫球我們可以立專法專門對他做相關的課稅但是\n\n04:01.477 --> 04:30.737\n一部娛樂稅法包山又包海所有的只要有表演的有座位的全部都要課娛樂稅最嚴重的是什麼最嚴重的是我們所有的藝人表演也罷了現在是聖誕節很多學校在辦party很多的學生在做表演這些學校社團表演社區活動這些婆婆媽媽的表演只要有收費有一個車馬費有一個門票錢全部都要報娛樂稅不然就要被罰\n\n04:31.857 --> 04:53.942\n但是我們又有法條說哦只要你是教育文化公益慈善團體的不用罰但是部長啊我們這間已經吵很久了這些還是要來報備對不對還是要來事先申請對不對不然他就會被檢舉之後他還要被處罰說因為雖然你是一文團體但是你沒報備你還是要被處罰是嗎\n\n04:56.189 --> 05:11.620\n我知道您提了很多娛樂稅現在的一個情況但是實務執行在地方政府地方政府也都反對那未來財政形勢的一個變化地方政府或許有不同的考量但是我認為地方稅基本上我們還是要尊重地方政府\n\n05:11.920 --> 05:29.214\n我同意尊重地方政府但是如果說不合時宜的稅我們中央有態度第二個積增成本是娛樂稅裡面最為人詬病的狀況現在的娛樂稅每個地方政府的收入不占到它的基本地方政府的稅收不到1%啊\n\n05:31.124 --> 05:58.371\n只有0.1%到0.4%娛樂稅如果在鄉鎮收取是歸鄉鎮鄉鎮的財政情況是很小的第二個部分非常有趣它的積增成本將近是14%到22%也就是我們課100塊的娛樂稅我們有14塊是積增成本跟其他貨物稅、菸酒稅、土地增值稅其他的積增成本相對低很多甚至低到數十倍、數百倍\n\n05:59.071 --> 06:08.890\n也就是說一個積增成本如此高的稅第二個收入如此低的稅這的確是在稅收上面是很沒有效率的你同意嗎?\n\n06:10.327 --> 06:18.189\n我想這個積增成本的部分,當時各地方在表達意見的時候,他們都會考慮進去的。積增成本就是非常的高。積增成本高到沒有辦法不處理,然後第二個就是讓民眾覺得很擾民。第二個,我在餐廳裡面放一個KTV,在那邊唱歌,也要科娛樂稅。如果沒有人檢舉就算了,有人檢舉的話,這些還要被查,還要被罰。\n\n06:34.440 --> 06:53.438\n所以我們有很多的問題都是在於漏水所以第一個漏水我認為既然行政院有版本從現在開始財政收支劃分法通過之後我希望就像我之前跟部長說的財政部要去檢討所有相關已經不合時宜的稅制你們也在做檢討不是嗎\n\n06:55.491 --> 07:12.777\n關稅的部分事實上都是一直在滾動的是第二個針對這個部分我們也做了很多附帶決議你們本來要做提報告給我們一樣的從現在開始財政修正草案法通過後針對娛樂稅對地方稅制的影響我也希望能夠評估進去這個稅廢除的可行性\n\n07:25.202 --> 07:41.750\n蘇貞昌院長提案直接廢除我相信也是你們的政策現在看起來替代財源不是問題地方政府應該不會再來跟你抗議的所以也一樣在稅制改革裡面印花稅的廢除也應該成為財政部接下去下一步的規劃\n\n07:43.311 --> 07:46.993\n至少不會違反蘇貞昌院長跟民進黨執政的態度吧\n\n07:48.571 --> 08:16.136\n當時印花稅要廢除的時候我想您委員在臺北市也很清楚是你也很清楚那現在當然如果替代財源現在已經拿到3000多億我相信地方政府不太會反對了這個部分我想我們已經也有相關的附帶決議我們會在附帶決議的下面書面報告裡面一起做評估所以其實這個稅額第一輿論稅非常沒有效率基金成本高輸的稅額非常低全國才19億跟我們那3000多億比起來是九牛一毛第二個\n\n08:16.836 --> 08:43.622\n應花稅雖然有百來億但是對於地方政府來說以3000多億的分配稅款統籌下來的話其實它也是可以足以因應第三個部分就是如果現在部長我們要討論的是地方政府現在假設財化法把相關的財源撥入其實對他們來說最重要的是他們的財政狀況應該可以減輕現在地方政府的負債的狀況如何\n\n08:46.153 --> 09:01.384\n這個狀況其實已經大幅的下降因為這幾年中央對於地方財政的挹注從103年到114年已經增加到80%所以我看到你們的報告是所以它整體的負債都往下降的大家都降嘛齁都降得非常低而且還有剩餘112年剩餘648億對648億的\n\n09:06.260 --> 09:15.185\n表示他們的財政狀況逐步的減輕而且最重要是他們可能已經有多餘的財源所以剛剛講的從財化法檢討加上這些這兩年這幾年來的所謂的財政狀況表示他們\n\n09:23.510 --> 09:42.051\n舉債的空間是可以做檢討同樣的我知道財政部一直要討論所謂的地方稅責通責或有其他的相關的地方法制來配合財化法的修正那公債法針對地方政府的這些東西我們是不是也應該稍微討論一下因為上一次的修正是在民國102年\n\n09:44.807 --> 10:01.526\n後續我們再來做評估就是說如果財政收支劃分法給他們地方財源的話我希望財政不要做一件事情就是輔導地方政府優先償還他的稅他的債公共債務公債的部分他應該在他可以的情況下讓他的債減損下來\n\n10:03.789 --> 10:18.047\n尤其是最嚴重的是高雄那一般現世代最嚴重的是苗栗這兩個部分是不是財政部也應該成為你們將來《財化法》把相關的金額下放地方之後優先要求地方政府來做的\n\n10:19.766 --> 10:39.719\n各地方政府目前的債務狀況財政部都有在做管控當中也分級的做管理這個部分比如說像苗栗來說它也逐漸的在改善在獎勵所以財化法的部分要跟著公共債務一起檢討也希望地方政府拿到這麼多的統籌分配稅款之後優先償還它的債務拜託部長\n\n10:44.332 --> 10:56.446\n委員財務法的部分隨時分配中央釋出財源的部分那麼釋權是不是要再做調整都還要再做考量你要提什麼法我們都會支持啊好謝謝委員謝謝委員好謝謝珊珊接著請羅賓才委員花言主席貴委員處理習慣\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.985,"end":20.814,"text":"委員好部長好我想很遺憾的我們在這個委員會其實討論了一年的財政收支劃分法請行政院提版本一直沒有結果所以才會在上個禮拜通過了國民黨版的財政收支劃分法"},{"start":21.607,"end":40.087,"text":"上個星期我也在院會的時候希望民進黨團能夠支持我們台灣民眾黨的版本因為至少我們在水平分配的部分是以所謂的分配委員會來做處理彈性還是比較大的但是也很遺憾民進黨沒有支持民眾黨的版本而在這樣的情況下今天已經"},{"start":43.823,"end":70.588,"text":"確實已經造成了一個新的結果所以部長剛剛王世堅委員所要問的其實就是我要問的如果按照現有的狀況下我們曾經在這個地方討論的娛樂稅、印花稅都是因為中央說地方找不到替代財源所以沒有辦法廢除現在在財政收支發分法的情況下這樣的情況是不是地方已經找到了所謂的替代財源可以考慮廢止了"},{"start":73.422,"end":94.656,"text":"菸花稅跟魚肉稅都是地方稅那當時他們都反對要把它廢止涉及到他們的政治主權所以從現在開始你可以重新跟地方政府來討論了那現在開始那所謂也就是說對於財化法通過以後對於中央施政的時代議案我們還在跟主席總處來在盤點然後後續會有什麼樣的憲政上的救濟程序也都還在評估當中那請問部長我們的魚肉稅的主要目的是什麼"},{"start":99.565,"end":100.545,"text":"現在看個電影要繳娛樂稅看個大巨蛋的棒球要繳娛樂稅看個籃球比賽要繳娛樂稅你覺得合理嗎?"},{"start":115.543,"end":139.643,"text":"委員雖然娛樂稅法這一次我們在財政部討論的時候沒有廢止但是我們的修正草案也已經送進大院第一個我們下降了上限同時對於也受求地方可以停徵我覺得是為的不足啊為什麼你們的修正是說我們同意地方政府可以把第一到第四項考慮停徵就要講電影、競技比賽"},{"start":140.784,"end":152.913,"text":"議員表演可以由地方政府決定所以它將來會變成一國多制第二個你們說調降了它的最高上限比如說電影的上限是30%外國電影的上限是60%你們把它降下來但是事實上現在課真的都不到1%到2.5%所以你降了30%變成15%有什麼用根本沒有用"},{"start":164.321,"end":183.57,"text":"也就是說有這樣跟沒這樣一樣第三個一到四款將來會變成臺北、新北、桃園同樣的首都生活圈可能會造成今天來臺北看表演跟到新北看表演是不同的費率這點臺灣這麼小有需要分到這樣嗎你覺得需要分到這樣嗎"},{"start":187.216,"end":203.484,"text":"因為第一個它本來就是一個地方稅地方稅一定有它一定的地方政府有它可以有財量的權利那今天我們是授權它對於藝文表演跟競技的停徵這個部分是可以去做的地方上它也考量要花費的財源為什麼既然可以停徵表示它不重要第二個既然財化法已經把相關的地方稅"},{"start":213.188,"end":240.457,"text":"地方的財源已經確認了所以他沒有財源的問題其實是可以廢止的第三個就是你們既然都提了這個稅表示這個稅沒那麼重要沒這麼重要我覺得這個是我們是匯集到各地方政府的意見提出來的修正草案我同意比如說像舞廳、舞場、歌廳這些特殊的娛樂行業八大行業甚至高爾夫球我們可以立專法專門對他做相關的課稅但是"},{"start":241.477,"end":270.737,"text":"一部娛樂稅法包山又包海所有的只要有表演的有座位的全部都要課娛樂稅最嚴重的是什麼最嚴重的是我們所有的藝人表演也罷了現在是聖誕節很多學校在辦party很多的學生在做表演這些學校社團表演社區活動這些婆婆媽媽的表演只要有收費有一個車馬費有一個門票錢全部都要報娛樂稅不然就要被罰"},{"start":271.857,"end":293.942,"text":"但是我們又有法條說哦只要你是教育文化公益慈善團體的不用罰但是部長啊我們這間已經吵很久了這些還是要來報備對不對還是要來事先申請對不對不然他就會被檢舉之後他還要被處罰說因為雖然你是一文團體但是你沒報備你還是要被處罰是嗎"},{"start":296.189,"end":311.62,"text":"我知道您提了很多娛樂稅現在的一個情況但是實務執行在地方政府地方政府也都反對那未來財政形勢的一個變化地方政府或許有不同的考量但是我認為地方稅基本上我們還是要尊重地方政府"},{"start":311.92,"end":329.214,"text":"我同意尊重地方政府但是如果說不合時宜的稅我們中央有態度第二個積增成本是娛樂稅裡面最為人詬病的狀況現在的娛樂稅每個地方政府的收入不占到它的基本地方政府的稅收不到1%啊"},{"start":331.124,"end":358.371,"text":"只有0.1%到0.4%娛樂稅如果在鄉鎮收取是歸鄉鎮鄉鎮的財政情況是很小的第二個部分非常有趣它的積增成本將近是14%到22%也就是我們課100塊的娛樂稅我們有14塊是積增成本跟其他貨物稅、菸酒稅、土地增值稅其他的積增成本相對低很多甚至低到數十倍、數百倍"},{"start":359.071,"end":368.89,"text":"也就是說一個積增成本如此高的稅第二個收入如此低的稅這的確是在稅收上面是很沒有效率的你同意嗎?"},{"start":370.327,"end":378.189,"text":"我想這個積增成本的部分,當時各地方在表達意見的時候,他們都會考慮進去的。積增成本就是非常的高。積增成本高到沒有辦法不處理,然後第二個就是讓民眾覺得很擾民。第二個,我在餐廳裡面放一個KTV,在那邊唱歌,也要科娛樂稅。如果沒有人檢舉就算了,有人檢舉的話,這些還要被查,還要被罰。"},{"start":394.44,"end":413.438,"text":"所以我們有很多的問題都是在於漏水所以第一個漏水我認為既然行政院有版本從現在開始財政收支劃分法通過之後我希望就像我之前跟部長說的財政部要去檢討所有相關已經不合時宜的稅制你們也在做檢討不是嗎"},{"start":415.491,"end":432.777,"text":"關稅的部分事實上都是一直在滾動的是第二個針對這個部分我們也做了很多附帶決議你們本來要做提報告給我們一樣的從現在開始財政修正草案法通過後針對娛樂稅對地方稅制的影響我也希望能夠評估進去這個稅廢除的可行性"},{"start":445.202,"end":461.75,"text":"蘇貞昌院長提案直接廢除我相信也是你們的政策現在看起來替代財源不是問題地方政府應該不會再來跟你抗議的所以也一樣在稅制改革裡面印花稅的廢除也應該成為財政部接下去下一步的規劃"},{"start":463.311,"end":466.993,"text":"至少不會違反蘇貞昌院長跟民進黨執政的態度吧"},{"start":468.571,"end":496.136,"text":"當時印花稅要廢除的時候我想您委員在臺北市也很清楚是你也很清楚那現在當然如果替代財源現在已經拿到3000多億我相信地方政府不太會反對了這個部分我想我們已經也有相關的附帶決議我們會在附帶決議的下面書面報告裡面一起做評估所以其實這個稅額第一輿論稅非常沒有效率基金成本高輸的稅額非常低全國才19億跟我們那3000多億比起來是九牛一毛第二個"},{"start":496.836,"end":523.622,"text":"應花稅雖然有百來億但是對於地方政府來說以3000多億的分配稅款統籌下來的話其實它也是可以足以因應第三個部分就是如果現在部長我們要討論的是地方政府現在假設財化法把相關的財源撥入其實對他們來說最重要的是他們的財政狀況應該可以減輕現在地方政府的負債的狀況如何"},{"start":526.153,"end":541.384,"text":"這個狀況其實已經大幅的下降因為這幾年中央對於地方財政的挹注從103年到114年已經增加到80%所以我看到你們的報告是所以它整體的負債都往下降的大家都降嘛齁都降得非常低而且還有剩餘112年剩餘648億對648億的"},{"start":546.26,"end":555.185,"text":"表示他們的財政狀況逐步的減輕而且最重要是他們可能已經有多餘的財源所以剛剛講的從財化法檢討加上這些這兩年這幾年來的所謂的財政狀況表示他們"},{"start":563.51,"end":582.051,"text":"舉債的空間是可以做檢討同樣的我知道財政部一直要討論所謂的地方稅責通責或有其他的相關的地方法制來配合財化法的修正那公債法針對地方政府的這些東西我們是不是也應該稍微討論一下因為上一次的修正是在民國102年"},{"start":584.807,"end":601.526,"text":"後續我們再來做評估就是說如果財政收支劃分法給他們地方財源的話我希望財政不要做一件事情就是輔導地方政府優先償還他的稅他的債公共債務公債的部分他應該在他可以的情況下讓他的債減損下來"},{"start":603.789,"end":618.047,"text":"尤其是最嚴重的是高雄那一般現世代最嚴重的是苗栗這兩個部分是不是財政部也應該成為你們將來《財化法》把相關的金額下放地方之後優先要求地方政府來做的"},{"start":619.766,"end":639.719,"text":"各地方政府目前的債務狀況財政部都有在做管控當中也分級的做管理這個部分比如說像苗栗來說它也逐漸的在改善在獎勵所以財化法的部分要跟著公共債務一起檢討也希望地方政府拿到這麼多的統籌分配稅款之後優先償還它的債務拜託部長"},{"start":644.332,"end":656.446,"text":"委員財務法的部分隨時分配中央釋出財源的部分那麼釋權是不是要再做調整都還要再做考量你要提什麼法我們都會支持啊好謝謝委員謝謝委員好謝謝珊珊接著請羅賓才委員花言主席貴委員處理習慣"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":718,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（11時45分）謝謝主席，我請部長。"],["主席：請莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["黃委員珊珊：部長好。很遺憾的，我們在這個委員會討論了一年的財政收支劃分法，請行政院提版本都一直沒有結果，所以才會在上個禮拜通過了國民黨版的財政收支劃分法，上個星期我也在院會的時候，希望民進黨團能夠支持我們台灣民眾黨的版本，因為至少我們在水平分配的部分是以所謂的分配委員會來做處理，彈性還是比較大的，但是也很遺憾，民進黨沒有支持民眾黨的版本，在這樣的情況下，今天確實已經造成了一個新的結果，所以部長，剛剛王世堅委員所要問的，其實就是我要問的，如果按照現有的狀況下，我們曾經在這個地方討論的娛樂稅、印花稅，都是因為中央說地方找不到替代財源，所以沒有辦法廢除，現在在財政收支劃分法的情況下，這樣的情況是不是地方已經找到了所謂的替代財源，可以考慮廢止了？"],["莊部長翠雲：印花稅跟娛樂稅都是地方稅，當時他們都反對要把它廢止，涉及到他們的財政自主權……"],["黃委員珊珊：所以從現在開始，你可以重新跟地方政府來討論了。"],["莊部長翠雲：也就是說，財劃法通過以後，對中央施政的窒礙，我們還在跟主計總處盤點，後續會有什麼樣的憲政上的救濟程序，也都還在評估當中。"],["黃委員珊珊：那就回到原點好了。請問部長，我們娛樂稅的主要目的是什麼？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想娛樂稅當時訂定有它的時代背景"],["黃委員珊珊：那是非常非常久遠的時代了。"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["黃委員珊珊：現在看個電影要繳娛樂稅，看個大巨蛋的棒球要繳娛樂稅，看個籃球比賽要繳娛樂稅，你覺得合理嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，雖然娛樂稅法這一次我們在財政部討論的時候沒有廢止，但是我們的修正草案也已經送進大院，第一個，我們下降了上限，同時對於……"],["黃委員珊珊：部長，你們的修正我覺得是為德不卒，為什麼？你們的修正是說，我們同意地方政府可以把第一款到第四款考慮停徵，就在講電影、競技比賽、藝文表演可以由地方政府決定，所以將來會變成一國多制；第二個，你們說調降了它的最高上限，比如說，電影的上限是30%，外國電影的上限是60%，你們把它降下來，但是事實上，現在課徵的都不到1%到2.5%，所以你降了30%變成15%，有什麼用？根本沒有用，也就是說，有降跟沒降一樣；第三個，第一款到第四款，將來會變成臺北、新北、桃園同樣的首都生活圈，可能會造成今天來臺北看表演跟到新北看表演是不同的費率，對於這一點，臺灣這麼小，有需要分到這樣嗎？你覺得需要分到這樣嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：因為第一個，它本來就是一個地方稅，地方稅一定有地方政府可以裁量的權力，今天我們是授權它對於藝文表演跟競技……"],["黃委員珊珊：好，你授權它，我的意思就是說……"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分是可以去做的，地方上……"],["黃委員珊珊：好，我的意思是說，如果要的話，那我們立法院就直接幫你提案廢止算了，為什麼？既然可以停徵，表示它不重要；第二個，既然財劃法已經把相關的地方稅，地方的財源已經確認了，所以它沒有財源的問題，其實是可以廢止了；第三個，你們既然都提了這個稅，表示這個稅沒那麼重要。"],["莊部長翠雲：沒這麼重要？我覺得這個是我們匯集到各地方政府的意見以後提出來的修正草案。"],["黃委員珊珊：很好，我同意。比如說舞廳、舞場、歌廳這些特殊的娛樂行業、八大行業，甚至高爾夫球，我們可以立專法，專門對它做相關的課稅，但是一部娛樂稅法包山又包海，所有只要有表演的、有座位的全部都要課娛樂稅，最嚴重的是什麼？最嚴重的是，所有的藝文表演也罷了，現在是聖誕節，很多學校在辦party，很多的學生在做表演，這些學校社團表演、社區活動，這些婆婆媽媽的表演，只要有收費，有一個車馬費、有一個門票錢，全部都要報娛樂稅，不然就要被罰。但是我們又有法條說，只要你是教育文化、公益慈善團體的不用罰，但是部長啊！我們這些已經吵很久了，這些還是要來報備對不對？還是要事先申請對不對？不然他被檢舉之後，還是要被處罰，說雖然你是藝文團體，但是你沒報備，還是要被處罰，是嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：我知道您提了很多娛樂稅現在的情況，但是實務執行在地方政府，地方政府也都反對。未來財政形勢的變化，地方政府或許有不同的考量，但是我認為地方稅，基本上我們還是要尊重地方政府。"],["黃委員珊珊：我同意尊重地方政府，但如果是不合時宜的稅，我們中央要有態度。第二個，稽徵成本是娛樂稅裡最為人詬病的狀況，現在的娛樂稅，占不到每個地方政府基本稅收的1%，只有0.1%到0.4%。"],["莊部長翠雲：娛樂稅如果在鄉鎮收取是歸鄉鎮，鄉鎮的財政情況是很小的。"],["黃委員珊珊：第二個部分非常有趣，它的稽徵成本將近14%到22%，也就是我們課100元的娛樂稅，有14元是稽徵成本，跟其他貨物稅、菸酒稅、土地增值稅等其他的稽徵成本相對低很多，甚至低到數十倍、數百倍。也就是說，一個稽徵成本如此高的稅，第二個，收入如此低的稅，這在稅收上的確是很沒效率的，你同意嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想稽徵成本的部分，當時各地方政府在表達意見的時候，他們都會考慮進去的。"],["黃委員珊珊：稽徵成本就是非常的高，稽徵成本高到沒有辦法不處理。然後就是讓民眾覺得很擾民，我在餐廳裡放一個KTV在那邊唱歌，也要課娛樂稅，如果沒有人檢舉就算了，有人檢舉的話，這些還要被查、還要被罰。我們有很多的問題，都是在娛樂稅，所以第一、我認為娛樂稅既然行政院有版本，從現在開始，財政收支劃分法通過之後，我希望就像我之前跟部長說的，財政部要去檢討所有相關已經不合時宜的稅制，你們也在做檢討不是嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：有關稅的部分，事實上都是一直在滾動的……"],["黃委員珊珊：是，第二、針對這個部分，我們也做了很多附帶決議，你們本來就要提報告給我們。一樣的，從現在開始，財政收支劃分法通過後，針對娛樂稅對地方稅制的影響，這個稅廢除的可行性，我也希望能夠評估進去。"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分的評估，我們上次不是在審預算附帶決議就已經有了？"],["黃委員珊珊：好，同樣的，印花稅也在列，印花稅一樣，曾經蘇貞昌院長提案直接廢除，我相信也是你們的政策，現在看起來替代財源不是問題，地方政府應該不會再來跟你抗議。所以在稅制改革裡面，印花稅的廢除也應該一樣，成為財政部下一步的規劃，至少不會違反蘇貞昌院長跟民進黨執政的態度吧？"],["莊部長翠雲：當時印花稅要廢除的時候，我想委員您在臺北市也很清楚，現在當然……"],["黃委員珊珊：如果替代財源現在已經拿到三千多億，我相信地方政府不太會反對啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分我想我們已經有相關的附帶決議，我們會在附帶決議要求的書面報告裡一起做評估。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以其實這個稅額，第一、娛樂稅非常沒有效率，稽徵成本高，收的稅額非常低，全國才19億，跟我們那三千多億比起來是九牛一毛。第二、印花稅雖然有百來億，但是對於地方政府來說，以三千多億的分配稅款統籌下來的話，其實它也足以因應。第三、假設現在地方政府依財劃法把相關的財源撥入，其實對他們來說，最重要的是他們的財政狀況應該可以減輕，現在地方政府的負債狀況如何？"],["莊部長翠雲：負債的狀況其實已經大幅的下降，因為這幾年中央對於地方財政的挹注，從103年到114年已經增加到80%，所以整體的負債都是往下降的。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以我看到你們的報告是大家都降。"],["莊部長翠雲：都降得非常低，而且還有賸餘，112年賸餘648億。"],["黃委員珊珊：對，表示他們的財政狀況逐步的減輕，而且最重要是，他們可能已經有多餘的財源。所以剛剛講的，從財劃法檢討，加上這幾年來所謂的財政狀況，表示他們舉債的空間是可以做檢討。同樣的，我知道財政部一直要討論所謂的地方稅則通則，還有其他相關的地方法制來配合財劃法的修正。那公債法針對地方政府的這些東西，我們是不是也應該稍微討論一下？因為上一次的修正是在民國102年。"],["莊部長翠雲：後續我們再來做評估。"],["黃委員珊珊：如果財政收支劃分法給他們地方財源的話，我希望財政部要做一件事情，就是輔導地方政府優先償還它的公共債務。公債的部分，應該在它可以的情況下，讓它的債減少下來，尤其最嚴重的是高雄，一般縣市大概最嚴重的是苗栗。這兩個部分，將來財劃法把相關的金額下放地方之後，是不是也應該成為財政部優先要求地方政府來做的？"],["莊部長翠雲：各地方政府目前的債務狀況，財政部都有在做管控，也有做分級管理的部分，比如像苗栗也逐漸在改善。"],["黃委員珊珊：在降低？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以財劃法的部分，要跟著公共債務一起檢討，也希望地方政府拿到這麼多的統籌分配稅款之後，優先償還它的債務，拜託部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，財劃法垂直分配中央釋出財源的部分，事權是不是要再做調整，都還要再做考量。"],["黃委員珊珊：你要提什麼法我們都會支持。"],["莊部長翠雲：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝珊珊。接著請羅明才委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":106,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-13","speakers":["賴惠員","賴士葆","陳菁徽","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","顏寬恒","李坤城","李彥秀","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王世堅","黃健豪","黃珊珊","羅明才","張啓楷","陳玉珍","王鴻薇"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-25"],"gazette_id":"1141203","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1141203_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「菸酒稅法」 10 案：( 一) 行政院函請審議、本院委員李柏毅等 16 人、委員賴惠員等16\n人、委員郭國文等 18 人、委員吳琪銘等 16 人分別擬具「菸酒稅法部分條文修正草案」等 5 案、\n(二)本院委員徐巧芯等29人擬具「菸酒稅法第十九條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員賴士葆等\n27人、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等20人、委員張智倫等18人分別擬具「菸酒稅法第十九\n條及第二十一條條文修正草案」等3案、(四)本院委員陳玉珍等19人擬具「菸酒稅法第十九條及\n第二十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查「使用牌照稅法」8案：(一) 行政院函請審議、本院委\n員賴士葆等24人、委員陳菁徽等17人、委員張智倫等18人、委員陳素月等19人、委員賴惠員等17\n人、委員郭國文等16人分別擬具「使用牌照稅法第二十九條、第三十條及第三十一條條文修正草\n案」等7案、(二) 本院委員陳玉珍等19人擬具「使用牌照稅法第三十條及第三十一條條文修正草\n案」案；三、審查行政院函請審議、本院委員賴士葆等21人、委員林楚茵等18人、委員徐巧芯等\n27人、委員賴惠員等17人、委員郭國文等17人分別擬具「土地稅法第五十四條條文修正草案」等\n6案；四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分，關於財政部主管中國\n輸出入銀行、臺灣金融控股股份有限公司（含臺灣銀行股份有限公司、臺銀人壽保險股份有限公\n司、臺銀綜合證券股份有限公司）（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1141203_00001"}}}