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00:00:54,862\n那面對這個整體的金融環境很快速變遷建立金融業是很需要人才虛才恐極那看每年的這個金融招考人數可以看出來但是部長請問這也很多人問過我們也是很關心因為要用好人才才會有好的這個相關的這個營業跟發展那要好人才你總是不能給他非常差的待遇比如說你看國營國營的金融銀行的員工的福利\n\n3\n00:00:55,342 --> 00:01:19,176\n相對於犯供股銀行的員工福利來講犯供股有沒有優勢?我們國營的部分因為國營銀行它有相關法規的一些制度要遵守所以它目前來說不管是薪資或福利的部分跟犯供股銀行之間確實有一個差距同樣頻頻在銀行業工作事實上這也造成不公平也會造成我們這個國營銀行的競爭\n\n4\n00:01:21,537 --> 00:01:35,966\n我們當然是希望能夠吸引更優秀的以及留住優秀的人才我看別委員有問過請你們主動哪些法規的限制如果需要立法委員這邊來協助你們主動提出來或者我們一起來幫忙修正這些\n\n5\n00:01:36,926 --> 00:02:04,730\n法律可以給他們比較公平的待遇那沒有法規的限制的部分以後比如就像你看那個伙食費有嗎?伙食費從民國82年到現在都沒有調整啊現在國營的金融事業機構伙食費多少錢?因為各家銀行、國營的部分可能現在有我們我們有台灣銀行他們在這邊是不是有他們直接來回答請問相關的問題他們比較了解請他們回答一下\n\n6\n00:02:08,501 --> 00:02:25,615\n范工股的優勢多少?范工股有沒有一起回答一下?跟委員報告,國營事業的伙食費目前是每個月750塊那如果一般的范工股范工股呢?范工股就是參照我們財政部所訂的營利事業管理準則3000塊3000塊,這樣是不是差4倍?\n\n7\n00:02:31,820 --> 00:02:50,698\n對,這樣是不是差距?部長,這樣是不是差距太多了?這是應該適度調整的。是的,我想對於對我們的公主的婚姻,應該很久了吧。這個事實上非常的不公平,雖然是這個經驗不適,但是這個東西馬上我們就可以做嘛。這個應該不用等到什麼法規修正吧。\n\n8\n00:02:51,338 --> 00:03:06,781\n謝謝委員的支持我想這個部分也有涉及到人種的法規我們會跟人種來溝通果實費這種應該是果實費這麼小的事情750跟3000塊這種東西還有人種的法規喔是我想這個部分我們會來討論跟支持也謝謝委員的支持還有來我再問一下比如說\n\n9\n00:03:07,642 --> 00:03:15,232\n委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘\n\n10\n00:03:24,525 --> 00:03:49,602\n五千和十萬這樣是差幾倍啊?差二十倍啊這樣是不是真的太過不公平了那你會讓這個我們這個國營的那大家當然是比較會往說待遇比較好的地方走那讓我們的國營的金融事業機構的這個這個員工可能如果要留才啊或什麼這樣子就幫助不大這個也差太多了二十倍這個部分還有呢績效獎金呢\n\n11\n00:03:51,274 --> 00:04:13,443\n要做好績效我們給錢不是只有給我們還要看績效嘛這個很重要的嘛那國營的金融事業機構員工績效已經發多少?范工股發多少?目前國營的話是上限是4.4個月那范工股呢?范工股大概平均是8個月以上那也差兩倍啊我們也是要求績效沒有績效也是不能給獎金的我是蠻重視權責的這樣的人所以這個整體\n\n12\n00:04:18,066 --> 00:04:28,838\n請問部長,你這個是不是如果可以先做的即便是小的,比如火石費、時間補償,這是比較小的或是這個,這種如果比較小的,不需要來修法的,那是不是先來做?\n\n13\n00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:49,888\n是不是可以馬上就可以做?跟委員報告我想財政部對於我們的國營的金融機構的一個待遇跟那個福利的調整基本上都是採支持的一個態度所以比如說薪資的調整我們在107年就跟公務員的薪資來做脫鉤\n\n14\n00:04:51,209 --> 00:04:51,329\n委員吳琪銘\n\n15\n00:05:21,750 --> 00:05:38,667\n需要到三個月嗎?這樣好不好?因為今年過年是不是一月底、二月嘛?對啊對嘛,我們開議可能是二月份嘛應該這一、兩個月就可以要過年嘛一、二月,討論一下先從不需要修法的做起,我們一步一步一步一步來做好不好那另外你要三個月可以\n\n16\n00:05:39,327 --> 00:05:59,377\n這前面這不用修法你兩個月把它檢討出來需要修法的部分麻煩下個會期我們開前送過來立法院如果需要我們這邊修法法律的話就不在財政部的法律裡面了那你們提出來嘛報告寫該哪個單位修法或者我們主動提修法也可以像我們說財化法你們不修我說我們\n\n17\n00:06:00,217 --> 00:06:11,721\n立法院可以代理你們前進你們不修我們往前修你們必須要跟上這個好不好這個部分就是兩個月跟三個月法律的部分可能在組總我們這個部分再跟大家一起討論我也會問他們好謝謝委員那我們來談這個財化法財化法部分因為\n\n18\n00:06:18,644 --> 00:06:45,773\n通過以後你們都說沒有充分討論其實討論很多次那沒關係你們說我還想說這個我們怎麼樣來如果說怎麼樣大家本來行政、立法之間本來很多事情是可以也是有辦法的不至於那麼嚴重你們說現在各個部會今天跑出來說什麼嚴重衝擊說施政能量什麼急速發展什麼擴大城鄉差距\n\n19\n00:06:46,633 --> 00:07:04,794\n好,剛剛有很多不可以提的,剛剛我們很多人也提了,很多方法嘛,三預算啊,幫你們三千多億,那你看,超徵這個也是事實嘛,你們財政部事實上做得蠻好的啊,這幾年我跟副院主都超徵嘛,這三年多每一年都超徵有三千億以上嘛,第一個這個就是一大筆錢,對不對,是不是有超徵?\n\n20\n00:07:05,655 --> 00:07:22,402\n跟委員報告我們是這個時增數超過預算數對阿對阿就是超過我們都要去拿去那也是不節儉阿對就是你要去拿去拿也沒節儉但的確是有錢不是說沒有錢嘛那第二個問題你說沒有修正25年都沒有修正阿我們這一屆我們開了6次的委員會劉明燦委員跟我也有召開公聽會也有舉辦兩場公聽會那兩場的時候我看那個陳其邁市長在說什麼邀請他來美南講話我們現時我就邀請了4次欸\n\n21\n00:07:34,127 --> 00:07:38,870\n本院委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘\n\n22\n00:07:50,177 --> 00:07:51,298\n委員吳琪銘等16人提案如經院會復議．則不予審查\n\n23\n00:08:10,180 --> 00:08:20,680\n你們可以繼續討論啊你們可以繼續還可以繼續凝聚共識啊如果你們覺得現在修了真的很讚你們可以繼續凝聚共識嘛你看多久還要凝聚你的共識還要凝聚多久呢\n\n24\n00:08:21,325 --> 00:08:50,225\n委員報告我想這個部分我們會先就立法院三組通過這個法案來做一個通牌的一個審視對中央施政的一個障礙我來看一下還有你們說什麼擴大成長差距事實上我按照你們這張試算的結果來講你看看事實上縣市政府增加了170%六都增加是60%所以按財政部的試算表示縣市政府就是這個不是直轄市是受益的所以是\n\n25\n00:08:50,905 --> 00:09:06,790\n是大幅提高縣市政府的財政能力而不是拉高不是拉大六都跟廢六都的差距這個我要跟您說一下這是按照你們的表格沒有看到吧沒錯吧好我剛因為我有聽到拉大是一個相對的一節拉大對就相對的事實上是更\n\n26\n00:09:08,211 --> 00:09:36,710\n現實政府大幅提高,提高170%6度才提高60%另外我又聽到很多委員,像我們召委台南的比如黃偉哲說不公平,台南怎樣好像高雄台南都是好像對他們不公平我來按照這個表格跟你們說一下在修法前,就是卓永泰所說的最好的方案就是原來那個法律原來是北大一南,卓永泰說最好的方案請問修法前台南市拿多少統籌款\n\n27\n00:09:39,391 --> 00:09:40,831\n修法後,排名有改變嗎?\n\n28\n00:10:08,820 --> 00:10:29,258\n也是第3嗎?台南也是第3、也是第6嗎?沒有。你看一下,你看一下。好,第二個,我還講一下,我覺得台南的委員可以聽一下,這個,好,我們其中有一條,可能這個調適章對台南高雄市很有幫助,這一條特別講一下。這一條就是,我們那時候有講說,保障一般性補助款不得降低。\n\n29\n00:10:29,838 --> 00:10:55,830\n就是在修法不能第一前一年的嘛那在前一年你看這一年來屏東、台南跟高雄110年到114年你看喔這個屏東都是第一名一般性補助款都是第一名台南市、高雄市都是第二名一般性補助款台南市都是第三名我們還保障了原來這些縣市一般性補助款比較高的金額修法後這些還是要給你們這樣的金額\n\n30\n00:10:57,111 --> 00:11:05,017\n所以相對的這些縣市這些屏東縣、台南市跟高雄市一般性補助款原來就比較多也不會降低委員財劃法、中央統籌分配稅款用意在於調節財政移需委員您看一下是不是把這個差距越拉越大了\n\n31\n00:11:15,565 --> 00:11:31,378\n我現在講的是我們對台南跟高雄因為補助了一般性補助款這一條所以我們對台南高雄屏東南部縣市我很多親友都住在高雄跟台南我對高雄跟台南都是很有感情\n\n32\n00:11:34,780 --> 00:11:55,648\n臺南、高雄、屏東都是第一名、第二名、第三名我們要求你們不能把這些縣市的一般性補儲款降低那他們本來就是比較高的還要保障他們所以這樣事實上對臺南、高雄、屏東來講事實上也算是很公平不會讓這些臺南市的委員、高雄市的委員、屏東的委員回去沒有辦法交代\n\n33\n00:11:56,528 --> 00:11:57,469\n蘇清前、蘇清前、蘇清前、委員不在\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5387\t25010\t委員好部長吼我們那個我國的這個金融市場競爭很激烈啦吼金管會統計資料中本國銀行有38家總行3388家分行表示我們的國內的銀行業是很高度競爭啦吼跟其他的這個國營市場比起來吼\n25911\t54862\t那面對這個整體的金融環境很快速變遷建立金融業是很需要人才虛才恐極那看每年的這個金融招考人數可以看出來但是部長請問這也很多人問過我們也是很關心因為要用好人才才會有好的這個相關的這個營業跟發展那要好人才你總是不能給他非常差的待遇比如說你看國營國營的金融銀行的員工的福利\n55342\t79176\t相對於犯供股銀行的員工福利來講犯供股有沒有優勢?我們國營的部分因為國營銀行它有相關法規的一些制度要遵守所以它目前來說不管是薪資或福利的部分跟犯供股銀行之間確實有一個差距同樣頻頻在銀行業工作事實上這也造成不公平也會造成我們這個國營銀行的競爭\n81537\t95966\t我們當然是希望能夠吸引更優秀的以及留住優秀的人才我看別委員有問過請你們主動哪些法規的限制如果需要立法委員這邊來協助你們主動提出來或者我們一起來幫忙修正這些\n96926\t124730\t法律可以給他們比較公平的待遇那沒有法規的限制的部分以後比如就像你看那個伙食費有嗎?伙食費從民國82年到現在都沒有調整啊現在國營的金融事業機構伙食費多少錢?因為各家銀行、國營的部分可能現在有我們我們有台灣銀行他們在這邊是不是有他們直接來回答請問相關的問題他們比較了解請他們回答一下\n128501\t145615\t范工股的優勢多少?范工股有沒有一起回答一下?跟委員報告,國營事業的伙食費目前是每個月750塊那如果一般的范工股范工股呢?范工股就是參照我們財政部所訂的營利事業管理準則3000塊3000塊,這樣是不是差4倍?\n151820\t170698\t對,這樣是不是差距?部長,這樣是不是差距太多了?這是應該適度調整的。是的,我想對於對我們的公主的婚姻,應該很久了吧。這個事實上非常的不公平,雖然是這個經驗不適,但是這個東西馬上我們就可以做嘛。這個應該不用等到什麼法規修正吧。\n171338\t186781\t謝謝委員的支持我想這個部分也有涉及到人種的法規我們會跟人種來溝通果實費這種應該是果實費這麼小的事情750跟3000塊這種東西還有人種的法規喔是我想這個部分我們會來討論跟支持也謝謝委員的支持還有來我再問一下比如說\n187642\t195232\t委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘\n204525\t229602\t五千和十萬這樣是差幾倍啊?差二十倍啊這樣是不是真的太過不公平了那你會讓這個我們這個國營的那大家當然是比較會往說待遇比較好的地方走那讓我們的國營的金融事業機構的這個這個員工可能如果要留才啊或什麼這樣子就幫助不大這個也差太多了二十倍這個部分還有呢績效獎金呢\n231274\t253443\t要做好績效我們給錢不是只有給我們還要看績效嘛這個很重要的嘛那國營的金融事業機構員工績效已經發多少?范工股發多少?目前國營的話是上限是4.4個月那范工股呢?范工股大概平均是8個月以上那也差兩倍啊我們也是要求績效沒有績效也是不能給獎金的我是蠻重視權責的這樣的人所以這個整體\n258066\t268838\t請問部長,你這個是不是如果可以先做的即便是小的,比如火石費、時間補償,這是比較小的或是這個,這種如果比較小的,不需要來修法的,那是不是先來做?\n270120\t289888\t是不是可以馬上就可以做?跟委員報告我想財政部對於我們的國營的金融機構的一個待遇跟那個福利的調整基本上都是採支持的一個態度所以比如說薪資的調整我們在107年就跟公務員的薪資來做脫鉤\n291209\t291329\t委員吳琪銘\n321750\t338667\t需要到三個月嗎?這樣好不好?因為今年過年是不是一月底、二月嘛?對啊對嘛,我們開議可能是二月份嘛應該這一、兩個月就可以要過年嘛一、二月,討論一下先從不需要修法的做起,我們一步一步一步一步來做好不好那另外你要三個月可以\n339327\t359377\t這前面這不用修法你兩個月把它檢討出來需要修法的部分麻煩下個會期我們開前送過來立法院如果需要我們這邊修法法律的話就不在財政部的法律裡面了那你們提出來嘛報告寫該哪個單位修法或者我們主動提修法也可以像我們說財化法你們不修我說我們\n360217\t371721\t立法院可以代理你們前進你們不修我們往前修你們必須要跟上這個好不好這個部分就是兩個月跟三個月法律的部分可能在組總我們這個部分再跟大家一起討論我也會問他們好謝謝委員那我們來談這個財化法財化法部分因為\n378644\t405773\t通過以後你們都說沒有充分討論其實討論很多次那沒關係你們說我還想說這個我們怎麼樣來如果說怎麼樣大家本來行政、立法之間本來很多事情是可以也是有辦法的不至於那麼嚴重你們說現在各個部會今天跑出來說什麼嚴重衝擊說施政能量什麼急速發展什麼擴大城鄉差距\n406633\t424794\t好,剛剛有很多不可以提的,剛剛我們很多人也提了,很多方法嘛,三預算啊,幫你們三千多億,那你看,超徵這個也是事實嘛,你們財政部事實上做得蠻好的啊,這幾年我跟副院主都超徵嘛,這三年多每一年都超徵有三千億以上嘛,第一個這個就是一大筆錢,對不對,是不是有超徵?\n425655\t442402\t跟委員報告我們是這個時增數超過預算數對阿對阿就是超過我們都要去拿去那也是不節儉阿對就是你要去拿去拿也沒節儉但的確是有錢不是說沒有錢嘛那第二個問題你說沒有修正25年都沒有修正阿我們這一屆我們開了6次的委員會劉明燦委員跟我也有召開公聽會也有舉辦兩場公聽會那兩場的時候我看那個陳其邁市長在說什麼邀請他來美南講話我們現時我就邀請了4次欸\n454127\t458870\t本院委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘\n470177\t471298\t委員吳琪銘等16人提案如經院會復議．則不予審查\n490180\t500680\t你們可以繼續討論啊你們可以繼續還可以繼續凝聚共識啊如果你們覺得現在修了真的很讚你們可以繼續凝聚共識嘛你看多久還要凝聚你的共識還要凝聚多久呢\n501325\t530225\t委員報告我想這個部分我們會先就立法院三組通過這個法案來做一個通牌的一個審視對中央施政的一個障礙我來看一下還有你們說什麼擴大成長差距事實上我按照你們這張試算的結果來講你看看事實上縣市政府增加了170%六都增加是60%所以按財政部的試算表示縣市政府就是這個不是直轄市是受益的所以是\n530905\t546790\t是大幅提高縣市政府的財政能力而不是拉高不是拉大六都跟廢六都的差距這個我要跟您說一下這是按照你們的表格沒有看到吧沒錯吧好我剛因為我有聽到拉大是一個相對的一節拉大對就相對的事實上是更\n548211\t576710\t現實政府大幅提高,提高170%6度才提高60%另外我又聽到很多委員,像我們召委台南的比如黃偉哲說不公平,台南怎樣好像高雄台南都是好像對他們不公平我來按照這個表格跟你們說一下在修法前,就是卓永泰所說的最好的方案就是原來那個法律原來是北大一南,卓永泰說最好的方案請問修法前台南市拿多少統籌款\n579391\t580831\t修法後,排名有改變嗎?\n608820\t629258\t也是第3嗎?台南也是第3、也是第6嗎?沒有。你看一下,你看一下。好,第二個,我還講一下,我覺得台南的委員可以聽一下,這個,好,我們其中有一條,可能這個調適章對台南高雄市很有幫助,這一條特別講一下。這一條就是,我們那時候有講說,保障一般性補助款不得降低。\n629838\t655830\t就是在修法不能第一前一年的嘛那在前一年你看這一年來屏東、台南跟高雄110年到114年你看喔這個屏東都是第一名一般性補助款都是第一名台南市、高雄市都是第二名一般性補助款台南市都是第三名我們還保障了原來這些縣市一般性補助款比較高的金額修法後這些還是要給你們這樣的金額\n657111\t665017\t所以相對的這些縣市這些屏東縣、台南市跟高雄市一般性補助款原來就比較多也不會降低委員財劃法、中央統籌分配稅款用意在於調節財政移需委員您看一下是不是把這個差距越拉越大了\n675565\t691378\t我現在講的是我們對台南跟高雄因為補助了一般性補助款這一條所以我們對台南高雄屏東南部縣市我很多親友都住在高雄跟台南我對高雄跟台南都是很有感情\n694780\t715648\t臺南、高雄、屏東都是第一名、第二名、第三名我們要求你們不能把這些縣市的一般性補儲款降低那他們本來就是比較高的還要保障他們所以這樣事實上對臺南、高雄、屏東來講事實上也算是很公平不會讓這些臺南市的委員、高雄市的委員、屏東的委員回去沒有辦法交代\n716528\t717469\t蘇清前、蘇清前、蘇清前、委員不在\n","txt":"委員好部長吼我們那個我國的這個金融市場競爭很激烈啦吼金管會統計資料中本國銀行有38家總行3388家分行表示我們的國內的銀行業是很高度競爭啦吼跟其他的這個國營市場比起來吼\n那面對這個整體的金融環境很快速變遷建立金融業是很需要人才虛才恐極那看每年的這個金融招考人數可以看出來但是部長請問這也很多人問過我們也是很關心因為要用好人才才會有好的這個相關的這個營業跟發展那要好人才你總是不能給他非常差的待遇比如說你看國營國營的金融銀行的員工的福利\n相對於犯供股銀行的員工福利來講犯供股有沒有優勢?我們國營的部分因為國營銀行它有相關法規的一些制度要遵守所以它目前來說不管是薪資或福利的部分跟犯供股銀行之間確實有一個差距同樣頻頻在銀行業工作事實上這也造成不公平也會造成我們這個國營銀行的競爭\n我們當然是希望能夠吸引更優秀的以及留住優秀的人才我看別委員有問過請你們主動哪些法規的限制如果需要立法委員這邊來協助你們主動提出來或者我們一起來幫忙修正這些\n法律可以給他們比較公平的待遇那沒有法規的限制的部分以後比如就像你看那個伙食費有嗎?伙食費從民國82年到現在都沒有調整啊現在國營的金融事業機構伙食費多少錢?因為各家銀行、國營的部分可能現在有我們我們有台灣銀行他們在這邊是不是有他們直接來回答請問相關的問題他們比較了解請他們回答一下\n范工股的優勢多少?范工股有沒有一起回答一下?跟委員報告,國營事業的伙食費目前是每個月750塊那如果一般的范工股范工股呢?范工股就是參照我們財政部所訂的營利事業管理準則3000塊3000塊,這樣是不是差4倍?\n對,這樣是不是差距?部長,這樣是不是差距太多了?這是應該適度調整的。是的,我想對於對我們的公主的婚姻,應該很久了吧。這個事實上非常的不公平,雖然是這個經驗不適,但是這個東西馬上我們就可以做嘛。這個應該不用等到什麼法規修正吧。\n謝謝委員的支持我想這個部分也有涉及到人種的法規我們會跟人種來溝通果實費這種應該是果實費這麼小的事情750跟3000塊這種東西還有人種的法規喔是我想這個部分我們會來討論跟支持也謝謝委員的支持還有來我再問一下比如說\n委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘\n五千和十萬這樣是差幾倍啊?差二十倍啊這樣是不是真的太過不公平了那你會讓這個我們這個國營的那大家當然是比較會往說待遇比較好的地方走那讓我們的國營的金融事業機構的這個這個員工可能如果要留才啊或什麼這樣子就幫助不大這個也差太多了二十倍這個部分還有呢績效獎金呢\n要做好績效我們給錢不是只有給我們還要看績效嘛這個很重要的嘛那國營的金融事業機構員工績效已經發多少?范工股發多少?目前國營的話是上限是4.4個月那范工股呢?范工股大概平均是8個月以上那也差兩倍啊我們也是要求績效沒有績效也是不能給獎金的我是蠻重視權責的這樣的人所以這個整體\n請問部長,你這個是不是如果可以先做的即便是小的,比如火石費、時間補償,這是比較小的或是這個,這種如果比較小的,不需要來修法的,那是不是先來做?\n是不是可以馬上就可以做?跟委員報告我想財政部對於我們的國營的金融機構的一個待遇跟那個福利的調整基本上都是採支持的一個態度所以比如說薪資的調整我們在107年就跟公務員的薪資來做脫鉤\n委員吳琪銘\n需要到三個月嗎?這樣好不好?因為今年過年是不是一月底、二月嘛?對啊對嘛,我們開議可能是二月份嘛應該這一、兩個月就可以要過年嘛一、二月,討論一下先從不需要修法的做起,我們一步一步一步一步來做好不好那另外你要三個月可以\n這前面這不用修法你兩個月把它檢討出來需要修法的部分麻煩下個會期我們開前送過來立法院如果需要我們這邊修法法律的話就不在財政部的法律裡面了那你們提出來嘛報告寫該哪個單位修法或者我們主動提修法也可以像我們說財化法你們不修我說我們\n立法院可以代理你們前進你們不修我們往前修你們必須要跟上這個好不好這個部分就是兩個月跟三個月法律的部分可能在組總我們這個部分再跟大家一起討論我也會問他們好謝謝委員那我們來談這個財化法財化法部分因為\n通過以後你們都說沒有充分討論其實討論很多次那沒關係你們說我還想說這個我們怎麼樣來如果說怎麼樣大家本來行政、立法之間本來很多事情是可以也是有辦法的不至於那麼嚴重你們說現在各個部會今天跑出來說什麼嚴重衝擊說施政能量什麼急速發展什麼擴大城鄉差距\n好,剛剛有很多不可以提的,剛剛我們很多人也提了,很多方法嘛,三預算啊,幫你們三千多億,那你看,超徵這個也是事實嘛,你們財政部事實上做得蠻好的啊,這幾年我跟副院主都超徵嘛,這三年多每一年都超徵有三千億以上嘛,第一個這個就是一大筆錢,對不對,是不是有超徵?\n跟委員報告我們是這個時增數超過預算數對阿對阿就是超過我們都要去拿去那也是不節儉阿對就是你要去拿去拿也沒節儉但的確是有錢不是說沒有錢嘛那第二個問題你說沒有修正25年都沒有修正阿我們這一屆我們開了6次的委員會劉明燦委員跟我也有召開公聽會也有舉辦兩場公聽會那兩場的時候我看那個陳其邁市長在說什麼邀請他來美南講話我們現時我就邀請了4次欸\n本院委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘\n委員吳琪銘等16人提案如經院會復議．則不予審查\n你們可以繼續討論啊你們可以繼續還可以繼續凝聚共識啊如果你們覺得現在修了真的很讚你們可以繼續凝聚共識嘛你看多久還要凝聚你的共識還要凝聚多久呢\n委員報告我想這個部分我們會先就立法院三組通過這個法案來做一個通牌的一個審視對中央施政的一個障礙我來看一下還有你們說什麼擴大成長差距事實上我按照你們這張試算的結果來講你看看事實上縣市政府增加了170%六都增加是60%所以按財政部的試算表示縣市政府就是這個不是直轄市是受益的所以是\n是大幅提高縣市政府的財政能力而不是拉高不是拉大六都跟廢六都的差距這個我要跟您說一下這是按照你們的表格沒有看到吧沒錯吧好我剛因為我有聽到拉大是一個相對的一節拉大對就相對的事實上是更\n現實政府大幅提高,提高170%6度才提高60%另外我又聽到很多委員,像我們召委台南的比如黃偉哲說不公平,台南怎樣好像高雄台南都是好像對他們不公平我來按照這個表格跟你們說一下在修法前,就是卓永泰所說的最好的方案就是原來那個法律原來是北大一南,卓永泰說最好的方案請問修法前台南市拿多少統籌款\n修法後,排名有改變嗎?\n也是第3嗎?台南也是第3、也是第6嗎?沒有。你看一下,你看一下。好,第二個,我還講一下,我覺得台南的委員可以聽一下,這個,好,我們其中有一條,可能這個調適章對台南高雄市很有幫助,這一條特別講一下。這一條就是,我們那時候有講說,保障一般性補助款不得降低。\n就是在修法不能第一前一年的嘛那在前一年你看這一年來屏東、台南跟高雄110年到114年你看喔這個屏東都是第一名一般性補助款都是第一名台南市、高雄市都是第二名一般性補助款台南市都是第三名我們還保障了原來這些縣市一般性補助款比較高的金額修法後這些還是要給你們這樣的金額\n所以相對的這些縣市這些屏東縣、台南市跟高雄市一般性補助款原來就比較多也不會降低委員財劃法、中央統籌分配稅款用意在於調節財政移需委員您看一下是不是把這個差距越拉越大了\n我現在講的是我們對台南跟高雄因為補助了一般性補助款這一條所以我們對台南高雄屏東南部縣市我很多親友都住在高雄跟台南我對高雄跟台南都是很有感情\n臺南、高雄、屏東都是第一名、第二名、第三名我們要求你們不能把這些縣市的一般性補儲款降低那他們本來就是比較高的還要保障他們所以這樣事實上對臺南、高雄、屏東來講事實上也算是很公平不會讓這些臺南市的委員、高雄市的委員、屏東的委員回去沒有辦法交代\n蘇清前、蘇清前、蘇清前、委員不在\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.387 --> 00:25.010\n委員好部長吼我們那個我國的這個金融市場競爭很激烈啦吼金管會統計資料中本國銀行有38家總行3388家分行表示我們的國內的銀行業是很高度競爭啦吼跟其他的這個國營市場比起來吼\n\n00:25.911 --> 00:54.862\n那面對這個整體的金融環境很快速變遷建立金融業是很需要人才虛才恐極那看每年的這個金融招考人數可以看出來但是部長請問這也很多人問過我們也是很關心因為要用好人才才會有好的這個相關的這個營業跟發展那要好人才你總是不能給他非常差的待遇比如說你看國營國營的金融銀行的員工的福利\n\n00:55.342 --> 01:19.176\n相對於犯供股銀行的員工福利來講犯供股有沒有優勢?我們國營的部分因為國營銀行它有相關法規的一些制度要遵守所以它目前來說不管是薪資或福利的部分跟犯供股銀行之間確實有一個差距同樣頻頻在銀行業工作事實上這也造成不公平也會造成我們這個國營銀行的競爭\n\n01:21.537 --> 01:35.966\n我們當然是希望能夠吸引更優秀的以及留住優秀的人才我看別委員有問過請你們主動哪些法規的限制如果需要立法委員這邊來協助你們主動提出來或者我們一起來幫忙修正這些\n\n01:36.926 --> 02:04.730\n法律可以給他們比較公平的待遇那沒有法規的限制的部分以後比如就像你看那個伙食費有嗎?伙食費從民國82年到現在都沒有調整啊現在國營的金融事業機構伙食費多少錢?因為各家銀行、國營的部分可能現在有我們我們有台灣銀行他們在這邊是不是有他們直接來回答請問相關的問題他們比較了解請他們回答一下\n\n02:08.501 --> 02:25.615\n范工股的優勢多少?范工股有沒有一起回答一下?跟委員報告,國營事業的伙食費目前是每個月750塊那如果一般的范工股范工股呢?范工股就是參照我們財政部所訂的營利事業管理準則3000塊3000塊,這樣是不是差4倍?\n\n02:31.820 --> 02:50.698\n對,這樣是不是差距?部長,這樣是不是差距太多了?這是應該適度調整的。是的,我想對於對我們的公主的婚姻,應該很久了吧。這個事實上非常的不公平,雖然是這個經驗不適,但是這個東西馬上我們就可以做嘛。這個應該不用等到什麼法規修正吧。\n\n02:51.338 --> 03:06.781\n謝謝委員的支持我想這個部分也有涉及到人種的法規我們會跟人種來溝通果實費這種應該是果實費這麼小的事情750跟3000塊這種東西還有人種的法規喔是我想這個部分我們會來討論跟支持也謝謝委員的支持還有來我再問一下比如說\n\n03:07.642 --> 03:15.232\n委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘\n\n03:24.525 --> 03:49.602\n五千和十萬這樣是差幾倍啊?差二十倍啊這樣是不是真的太過不公平了那你會讓這個我們這個國營的那大家當然是比較會往說待遇比較好的地方走那讓我們的國營的金融事業機構的這個這個員工可能如果要留才啊或什麼這樣子就幫助不大這個也差太多了二十倍這個部分還有呢績效獎金呢\n\n03:51.274 --> 04:13.443\n要做好績效我們給錢不是只有給我們還要看績效嘛這個很重要的嘛那國營的金融事業機構員工績效已經發多少?范工股發多少?目前國營的話是上限是4.4個月那范工股呢?范工股大概平均是8個月以上那也差兩倍啊我們也是要求績效沒有績效也是不能給獎金的我是蠻重視權責的這樣的人所以這個整體\n\n04:18.066 --> 04:28.838\n請問部長,你這個是不是如果可以先做的即便是小的,比如火石費、時間補償,這是比較小的或是這個,這種如果比較小的,不需要來修法的,那是不是先來做?\n\n04:30.120 --> 04:49.888\n是不是可以馬上就可以做?跟委員報告我想財政部對於我們的國營的金融機構的一個待遇跟那個福利的調整基本上都是採支持的一個態度所以比如說薪資的調整我們在107年就跟公務員的薪資來做脫鉤\n\n04:51.209 --> 04:51.329\n委員吳琪銘\n\n05:21.750 --> 05:38.667\n需要到三個月嗎?這樣好不好?因為今年過年是不是一月底、二月嘛?對啊對嘛,我們開議可能是二月份嘛應該這一、兩個月就可以要過年嘛一、二月,討論一下先從不需要修法的做起,我們一步一步一步一步來做好不好那另外你要三個月可以\n\n05:39.327 --> 05:59.377\n這前面這不用修法你兩個月把它檢討出來需要修法的部分麻煩下個會期我們開前送過來立法院如果需要我們這邊修法法律的話就不在財政部的法律裡面了那你們提出來嘛報告寫該哪個單位修法或者我們主動提修法也可以像我們說財化法你們不修我說我們\n\n06:00.217 --> 06:11.721\n立法院可以代理你們前進你們不修我們往前修你們必須要跟上這個好不好這個部分就是兩個月跟三個月法律的部分可能在組總我們這個部分再跟大家一起討論我也會問他們好謝謝委員那我們來談這個財化法財化法部分因為\n\n06:18.644 --> 06:45.773\n通過以後你們都說沒有充分討論其實討論很多次那沒關係你們說我還想說這個我們怎麼樣來如果說怎麼樣大家本來行政、立法之間本來很多事情是可以也是有辦法的不至於那麼嚴重你們說現在各個部會今天跑出來說什麼嚴重衝擊說施政能量什麼急速發展什麼擴大城鄉差距\n\n06:46.633 --> 07:04.794\n好,剛剛有很多不可以提的,剛剛我們很多人也提了,很多方法嘛,三預算啊,幫你們三千多億,那你看,超徵這個也是事實嘛,你們財政部事實上做得蠻好的啊,這幾年我跟副院主都超徵嘛,這三年多每一年都超徵有三千億以上嘛,第一個這個就是一大筆錢,對不對,是不是有超徵?\n\n07:05.655 --> 07:22.402\n跟委員報告我們是這個時增數超過預算數對阿對阿就是超過我們都要去拿去那也是不節儉阿對就是你要去拿去拿也沒節儉但的確是有錢不是說沒有錢嘛那第二個問題你說沒有修正25年都沒有修正阿我們這一屆我們開了6次的委員會劉明燦委員跟我也有召開公聽會也有舉辦兩場公聽會那兩場的時候我看那個陳其邁市長在說什麼邀請他來美南講話我們現時我就邀請了4次欸\n\n07:34.127 --> 07:38.870\n本院委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘\n\n07:50.177 --> 07:51.298\n委員吳琪銘等16人提案如經院會復議．則不予審查\n\n08:10.180 --> 08:20.680\n你們可以繼續討論啊你們可以繼續還可以繼續凝聚共識啊如果你們覺得現在修了真的很讚你們可以繼續凝聚共識嘛你看多久還要凝聚你的共識還要凝聚多久呢\n\n08:21.325 --> 08:50.225\n委員報告我想這個部分我們會先就立法院三組通過這個法案來做一個通牌的一個審視對中央施政的一個障礙我來看一下還有你們說什麼擴大成長差距事實上我按照你們這張試算的結果來講你看看事實上縣市政府增加了170%六都增加是60%所以按財政部的試算表示縣市政府就是這個不是直轄市是受益的所以是\n\n08:50.905 --> 09:06.790\n是大幅提高縣市政府的財政能力而不是拉高不是拉大六都跟廢六都的差距這個我要跟您說一下這是按照你們的表格沒有看到吧沒錯吧好我剛因為我有聽到拉大是一個相對的一節拉大對就相對的事實上是更\n\n09:08.211 --> 09:36.710\n現實政府大幅提高,提高170%6度才提高60%另外我又聽到很多委員,像我們召委台南的比如黃偉哲說不公平,台南怎樣好像高雄台南都是好像對他們不公平我來按照這個表格跟你們說一下在修法前,就是卓永泰所說的最好的方案就是原來那個法律原來是北大一南,卓永泰說最好的方案請問修法前台南市拿多少統籌款\n\n09:39.391 --> 09:40.831\n修法後,排名有改變嗎?\n\n10:08.820 --> 10:29.258\n也是第3嗎?台南也是第3、也是第6嗎?沒有。你看一下,你看一下。好,第二個,我還講一下,我覺得台南的委員可以聽一下,這個,好,我們其中有一條,可能這個調適章對台南高雄市很有幫助,這一條特別講一下。這一條就是,我們那時候有講說,保障一般性補助款不得降低。\n\n10:29.838 --> 10:55.830\n就是在修法不能第一前一年的嘛那在前一年你看這一年來屏東、台南跟高雄110年到114年你看喔這個屏東都是第一名一般性補助款都是第一名台南市、高雄市都是第二名一般性補助款台南市都是第三名我們還保障了原來這些縣市一般性補助款比較高的金額修法後這些還是要給你們這樣的金額\n\n10:57.111 --> 11:05.017\n所以相對的這些縣市這些屏東縣、台南市跟高雄市一般性補助款原來就比較多也不會降低委員財劃法、中央統籌分配稅款用意在於調節財政移需委員您看一下是不是把這個差距越拉越大了\n\n11:15.565 --> 11:31.378\n我現在講的是我們對台南跟高雄因為補助了一般性補助款這一條所以我們對台南高雄屏東南部縣市我很多親友都住在高雄跟台南我對高雄跟台南都是很有感情\n\n11:34.780 --> 11:55.648\n臺南、高雄、屏東都是第一名、第二名、第三名我們要求你們不能把這些縣市的一般性補儲款降低那他們本來就是比較高的還要保障他們所以這樣事實上對臺南、高雄、屏東來講事實上也算是很公平不會讓這些臺南市的委員、高雄市的委員、屏東的委員回去沒有辦法交代\n\n11:56.528 --> 11:57.469\n蘇清前、蘇清前、蘇清前、委員不在\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.387,"end":25.01,"text":"委員好部長吼我們那個我國的這個金融市場競爭很激烈啦吼金管會統計資料中本國銀行有38家總行3388家分行表示我們的國內的銀行業是很高度競爭啦吼跟其他的這個國營市場比起來吼"},{"start":25.911,"end":54.862,"text":"那面對這個整體的金融環境很快速變遷建立金融業是很需要人才虛才恐極那看每年的這個金融招考人數可以看出來但是部長請問這也很多人問過我們也是很關心因為要用好人才才會有好的這個相關的這個營業跟發展那要好人才你總是不能給他非常差的待遇比如說你看國營國營的金融銀行的員工的福利"},{"start":55.342,"end":79.176,"text":"相對於犯供股銀行的員工福利來講犯供股有沒有優勢?我們國營的部分因為國營銀行它有相關法規的一些制度要遵守所以它目前來說不管是薪資或福利的部分跟犯供股銀行之間確實有一個差距同樣頻頻在銀行業工作事實上這也造成不公平也會造成我們這個國營銀行的競爭"},{"start":81.537,"end":95.966,"text":"我們當然是希望能夠吸引更優秀的以及留住優秀的人才我看別委員有問過請你們主動哪些法規的限制如果需要立法委員這邊來協助你們主動提出來或者我們一起來幫忙修正這些"},{"start":96.926,"end":124.73,"text":"法律可以給他們比較公平的待遇那沒有法規的限制的部分以後比如就像你看那個伙食費有嗎?伙食費從民國82年到現在都沒有調整啊現在國營的金融事業機構伙食費多少錢?因為各家銀行、國營的部分可能現在有我們我們有台灣銀行他們在這邊是不是有他們直接來回答請問相關的問題他們比較了解請他們回答一下"},{"start":128.501,"end":145.615,"text":"范工股的優勢多少?范工股有沒有一起回答一下?跟委員報告,國營事業的伙食費目前是每個月750塊那如果一般的范工股范工股呢?范工股就是參照我們財政部所訂的營利事業管理準則3000塊3000塊,這樣是不是差4倍?"},{"start":151.82,"end":170.698,"text":"對,這樣是不是差距?部長,這樣是不是差距太多了?這是應該適度調整的。是的,我想對於對我們的公主的婚姻,應該很久了吧。這個事實上非常的不公平,雖然是這個經驗不適,但是這個東西馬上我們就可以做嘛。這個應該不用等到什麼法規修正吧。"},{"start":171.338,"end":186.781,"text":"謝謝委員的支持我想這個部分也有涉及到人種的法規我們會跟人種來溝通果實費這種應該是果實費這麼小的事情750跟3000塊這種東西還有人種的法規喔是我想這個部分我們會來討論跟支持也謝謝委員的支持還有來我再問一下比如說"},{"start":187.642,"end":195.232,"text":"委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘"},{"start":204.525,"end":229.602,"text":"五千和十萬這樣是差幾倍啊?差二十倍啊這樣是不是真的太過不公平了那你會讓這個我們這個國營的那大家當然是比較會往說待遇比較好的地方走那讓我們的國營的金融事業機構的這個這個員工可能如果要留才啊或什麼這樣子就幫助不大這個也差太多了二十倍這個部分還有呢績效獎金呢"},{"start":231.274,"end":253.443,"text":"要做好績效我們給錢不是只有給我們還要看績效嘛這個很重要的嘛那國營的金融事業機構員工績效已經發多少?范工股發多少?目前國營的話是上限是4.4個月那范工股呢?范工股大概平均是8個月以上那也差兩倍啊我們也是要求績效沒有績效也是不能給獎金的我是蠻重視權責的這樣的人所以這個整體"},{"start":258.066,"end":268.838,"text":"請問部長,你這個是不是如果可以先做的即便是小的,比如火石費、時間補償,這是比較小的或是這個,這種如果比較小的,不需要來修法的,那是不是先來做?"},{"start":270.12,"end":289.888,"text":"是不是可以馬上就可以做?跟委員報告我想財政部對於我們的國營的金融機構的一個待遇跟那個福利的調整基本上都是採支持的一個態度所以比如說薪資的調整我們在107年就跟公務員的薪資來做脫鉤"},{"start":291.209,"end":291.329,"text":"委員吳琪銘"},{"start":321.75,"end":338.667,"text":"需要到三個月嗎?這樣好不好?因為今年過年是不是一月底、二月嘛?對啊對嘛,我們開議可能是二月份嘛應該這一、兩個月就可以要過年嘛一、二月,討論一下先從不需要修法的做起,我們一步一步一步一步來做好不好那另外你要三個月可以"},{"start":339.327,"end":359.377,"text":"這前面這不用修法你兩個月把它檢討出來需要修法的部分麻煩下個會期我們開前送過來立法院如果需要我們這邊修法法律的話就不在財政部的法律裡面了那你們提出來嘛報告寫該哪個單位修法或者我們主動提修法也可以像我們說財化法你們不修我說我們"},{"start":360.217,"end":371.721,"text":"立法院可以代理你們前進你們不修我們往前修你們必須要跟上這個好不好這個部分就是兩個月跟三個月法律的部分可能在組總我們這個部分再跟大家一起討論我也會問他們好謝謝委員那我們來談這個財化法財化法部分因為"},{"start":378.644,"end":405.773,"text":"通過以後你們都說沒有充分討論其實討論很多次那沒關係你們說我還想說這個我們怎麼樣來如果說怎麼樣大家本來行政、立法之間本來很多事情是可以也是有辦法的不至於那麼嚴重你們說現在各個部會今天跑出來說什麼嚴重衝擊說施政能量什麼急速發展什麼擴大城鄉差距"},{"start":406.633,"end":424.794,"text":"好,剛剛有很多不可以提的,剛剛我們很多人也提了,很多方法嘛,三預算啊,幫你們三千多億,那你看,超徵這個也是事實嘛,你們財政部事實上做得蠻好的啊,這幾年我跟副院主都超徵嘛,這三年多每一年都超徵有三千億以上嘛,第一個這個就是一大筆錢,對不對,是不是有超徵?"},{"start":425.655,"end":442.402,"text":"跟委員報告我們是這個時增數超過預算數對阿對阿就是超過我們都要去拿去那也是不節儉阿對就是你要去拿去拿也沒節儉但的確是有錢不是說沒有錢嘛那第二個問題你說沒有修正25年都沒有修正阿我們這一屆我們開了6次的委員會劉明燦委員跟我也有召開公聽會也有舉辦兩場公聽會那兩場的時候我看那個陳其邁市長在說什麼邀請他來美南講話我們現時我就邀請了4次欸"},{"start":454.127,"end":458.87,"text":"本院委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員吳琪銘"},{"start":470.177,"end":471.298,"text":"委員吳琪銘等16人提案如經院會復議．則不予審查"},{"start":490.18,"end":500.68,"text":"你們可以繼續討論啊你們可以繼續還可以繼續凝聚共識啊如果你們覺得現在修了真的很讚你們可以繼續凝聚共識嘛你看多久還要凝聚你的共識還要凝聚多久呢"},{"start":501.325,"end":530.225,"text":"委員報告我想這個部分我們會先就立法院三組通過這個法案來做一個通牌的一個審視對中央施政的一個障礙我來看一下還有你們說什麼擴大成長差距事實上我按照你們這張試算的結果來講你看看事實上縣市政府增加了170%六都增加是60%所以按財政部的試算表示縣市政府就是這個不是直轄市是受益的所以是"},{"start":530.905,"end":546.79,"text":"是大幅提高縣市政府的財政能力而不是拉高不是拉大六都跟廢六都的差距這個我要跟您說一下這是按照你們的表格沒有看到吧沒錯吧好我剛因為我有聽到拉大是一個相對的一節拉大對就相對的事實上是更"},{"start":548.211,"end":576.71,"text":"現實政府大幅提高,提高170%6度才提高60%另外我又聽到很多委員,像我們召委台南的比如黃偉哲說不公平,台南怎樣好像高雄台南都是好像對他們不公平我來按照這個表格跟你們說一下在修法前,就是卓永泰所說的最好的方案就是原來那個法律原來是北大一南,卓永泰說最好的方案請問修法前台南市拿多少統籌款"},{"start":579.391,"end":580.831,"text":"修法後,排名有改變嗎?"},{"start":608.82,"end":629.258,"text":"也是第3嗎?台南也是第3、也是第6嗎?沒有。你看一下,你看一下。好,第二個,我還講一下,我覺得台南的委員可以聽一下,這個,好,我們其中有一條,可能這個調適章對台南高雄市很有幫助,這一條特別講一下。這一條就是,我們那時候有講說,保障一般性補助款不得降低。"},{"start":629.838,"end":655.83,"text":"就是在修法不能第一前一年的嘛那在前一年你看這一年來屏東、台南跟高雄110年到114年你看喔這個屏東都是第一名一般性補助款都是第一名台南市、高雄市都是第二名一般性補助款台南市都是第三名我們還保障了原來這些縣市一般性補助款比較高的金額修法後這些還是要給你們這樣的金額"},{"start":657.111,"end":665.017,"text":"所以相對的這些縣市這些屏東縣、台南市跟高雄市一般性補助款原來就比較多也不會降低委員財劃法、中央統籌分配稅款用意在於調節財政移需委員您看一下是不是把這個差距越拉越大了"},{"start":675.565,"end":691.378,"text":"我現在講的是我們對台南跟高雄因為補助了一般性補助款這一條所以我們對台南高雄屏東南部縣市我很多親友都住在高雄跟台南我對高雄跟台南都是很有感情"},{"start":694.78,"end":715.648,"text":"臺南、高雄、屏東都是第一名、第二名、第三名我們要求你們不能把這些縣市的一般性補儲款降低那他們本來就是比較高的還要保障他們所以這樣事實上對臺南、高雄、屏東來講事實上也算是很公平不會讓這些臺南市的委員、高雄市的委員、屏東的委員回去沒有辦法交代"},{"start":716.528,"end":717.469,"text":"蘇清前、蘇清前、蘇清前、委員不在"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":921,"blocks":[["陳委員玉珍：（12時19分）謝謝主席，麻煩主席請我們部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["陳委員玉珍：部長好，我國的金融市場競爭很激烈，據金管會統計資料，本國銀行有38家總行，3,388家分行，表示我們國內的銀行業，跟其他國營事業比起來是很高度競爭的。面對整體的金融環境很快速變遷，金融業是很需要人才，需才孔亟，從每一年的金融招考人數可以看出來。但是請問部長，這很多人問過，我們也是很關心，因為要用好人才，才會有好的相關的營業跟發展。那要好人才，總是不能給他非常差的待遇，比如你看國營金融銀行的員工福利，相對於泛公股銀行的員工福利來講，我們國營的銀行有沒有優勢？"],["莊部長翠雲：因為國營銀行有一些相關法規的制度要遵守，所以目前來說，不管是薪資或福利的部分，跟泛公股銀行之間，確實有一個差距。"],["陳委員玉珍：有一定的差距嘛！同樣平平在銀行業工作，事實上這會造成不公義，也會造成我們國營銀行的競爭可能再……"],["莊部長翠雲：是，我們當然是希望能夠吸引更優秀的人才。"],["陳委員玉珍：所以我們也提出來，剛剛我看別的委員也有問過，請你們主動，有哪些法規的限制，如果需要立法委員來協助，你們主動提出來，或者我們一起來幫忙修正這些法律，可以給他們比較公平的待遇。至於沒有法規限制的部分，比如說你看伙食費有嗎？伙食費從民國82年到現在都沒有調整，現在國營的金融事業機構伙食費多少錢？"],["莊部長翠雲：泛公股的部分，因為各家銀行……"],["陳委員玉珍：國營的部分。"],["莊部長翠雲：國營的部分，我們有臺灣銀行在這邊，是不是由他們直接來回復更精準？"],["陳委員玉珍：好，可以，相關銀行比較瞭解，請他們回答一下，因為這個比較細，那泛公股的又是多少？現場有沒有泛公股的一起回答一下？"],["凌董事長忠嫄：跟委員報告，國營事業的伙食費目前是每個月750元，那如果一般的泛公股……"],["陳委員玉珍：750？"],["凌董事長忠嫄：是。"],["陳委員玉珍：好，泛公股呢？"],["凌董事長忠嫄：泛公股就是參照我們財政部所訂的營利事業管理準則……"],["陳委員玉珍：大概多少？"],["凌董事長忠嫄：3,000元。"],["陳委員玉珍：3,000元，這樣是不是差4倍？"],["凌董事長忠嫄：對。"],["陳委員玉珍：部長，這樣是不是差距太多了？這是不是應該適度調整？"],["莊部長翠雲：是的，我想對我們的公股國營銀行……"],["陳委員玉珍：現在是民國幾年了，二、三十年前了吧？"],["莊部長翠雲：應該很久了吧！"],["陳委員玉珍：這個事實上非常的不公平，雖然金額不是很大，但是這個東西我們馬上就可以做。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["陳委員玉珍：這個應該不用等到什麼法規修正吧？"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員，我想這個部分也涉及人總的法規，我們會跟人總來溝通……"],["陳委員玉珍：伙食費這麼小的事情，750元跟3,000元，這種東西還要看人總的法規喔？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，我想這個部分我們會來努力跟支持，也謝謝委員的支持。"],["陳委員玉珍：我再問一下，比如說員工的生育補助呢？我想臺銀的應該知道，國營的跟泛公股又差多少？現在不是少子化嗎？"],["凌董事長忠嫄：對，目前臺銀的生育補助費是5,000元。"],["陳委員玉珍：那泛公股是多少？"],["凌董事長忠嫄：泛公股每一家不太一樣，但平均下來大概每一家是10萬元。"],["陳委員玉珍：5,000對10萬？"],["凌董事長忠嫄：是。"],["陳委員玉珍：這是差幾倍啊？"],["凌董事長忠嫄：差20倍。"],["陳委員玉珍：20倍啊！這樣是不是真的太不公平了？大家當然是會往待遇比較好的地方走，那我們國營金融事業機構的員工，如果要留才或什麼的，這樣子就幫助不大。這個也差太多了，20倍欸！還有績效獎金呢？我們給錢不是只有給，我們還要看績效，這個很重要的嘛！"],["凌董事長忠嫄：是。"],["陳委員玉珍：那國營金融事業機構員工績效獎金發多少？泛公股銀行又是多少？"],["凌董事長忠嫄：目前國營的上限是4.4個月。"],["陳委員玉珍：那泛公股呢？"],["凌董事長忠嫄：泛公股大概平均是8個月以上。"],["陳委員玉珍：那也差兩倍啊！當然我們也是要求績效，沒有績效也不能給獎金，我是滿重視權責的人。所以我想請問部長，這部分如果可以先做，即便是小的，像伙食費實際上是比較小的。如果是比較小的、不需要修法的，是不是先來做？是不是馬上就可以做？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，我想財政部對於我們國營金融機構待遇跟福利的調整，基本上都是採支持的態度。所以比如說薪資的調整，我們在107年就跟公務員的薪資脫鉤，所以這個部分……"],["陳委員玉珍：剛剛有回答過我知道，我先請教你，我剛剛問的這些問題，我知道你支持，那我是不是請你，不用修法的部分你先做？我們一步一步來沒關係。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，我們逐項、逐項地來……"],["陳委員玉珍：好，那現在哪一項是不要修法的？如果不需要修法的，你多久可以做呢？我看伙食費應該不需要修法。"],["莊部長翠雲：我們第一個跟主總來做檢討，也會跟我們的金融事業一起來看要怎麼做，好不好？"],["陳委員玉珍：多久呢？現在是12月底。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，給我們3個月的時間可以嗎？"],["陳委員玉珍：需要到3個月嗎？這樣好不好，因為今年過年是不是1月底、2月？"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["陳委員玉珍：那我們開議可能是2月份，應該這一、兩個月就可以……"],["莊部長翠雲：好，我們盡力來做這個部分的……"],["陳委員玉珍：你們去討論一下，先從不需要修法的做起，我們一步一步。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，就是一步一步來做。"],["陳委員玉珍：另外，你要3個月也可以，這前面真的不用修法，你兩個月把它檢討出來。"],["莊部長翠雲：好，我們盡力來做。"],["陳委員玉珍：需要修法的部分，麻煩下個會期開議前，送過來立法院，如果需要我們這邊修法……"],["莊部長翠雲：法律的話就不在財政部的法律裡面了。"],["陳委員玉珍：對，那你們就提出來嘛！報告寫該哪個單位修法，或者我們主動提修法也可以。像財劃法你們不修，我說我們立法院可以帶你們前進，你們不修我們往前修，你們必須要跟上，這個部分就是2個月跟3個月好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：法律的部分可能在主總，這個部分我們再跟他一起討論。"],["陳委員玉珍：好，我也會問他們。"],["莊部長翠雲：好，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員玉珍：那我們接著來談財劃法，因為財劃法的部分通過以後，你們都說沒有充分討論，其實討論很多次。那沒關係，本來行政跟立法之間，很多事情也是可以有辦法的，不至於那麼嚴重啦！你們各個部會今天又跑出來說，什麼嚴重衝擊中央施政能量、什麼基礎發展、什麼擴大城鄉差距。因為剛剛我們很多委員也提了很多方法，刪預算幫你們刪三千多億，那你看超徵這個也是事實。你們財政部事實上做得滿好的，這幾年我看賦稅署都超徵，這三年每一年都超徵有三千億以上。第一、這就是一大筆錢對不對？是不是有超徵？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，我們是實徵數超過預算數。"],["陳委員玉珍：對啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：基本上我們都要先拿去還……"],["陳委員玉珍：對，那是你要拿去，但的確是有錢，不是沒有錢嘛！第二、你說沒有修正，25年來都沒有修正啊！我們這一屆開了6次的委員會，羅明才委員跟我都有召開，公聽會也有舉辦兩場。","公聽會那兩場的時候，我看陳其邁市長說什麼邀請他來沒讓他講話，我們縣市政府就邀請了4次欸！他應該是第5次才來的啊！前4次怎麼他都不來呢？我覺得這樣講很不公允，對財政委員會是相當不公允。然後我們也決議，請你們做出相關的版本，6月份的時候說9月份，也沒提出來啊！所以你們不願意提出來嗎？我知道有壓力，我知道其實也不是你可以決定，但是因為……"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，我也有書面報告，我們也都在努力當中，但是財劃法25年沒有修，就是因為沒有共識……"],["陳委員玉珍：我知道，但你們的努力速度太慢，你們的效率太低嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：但是通過的法律，應該要有一個最大的共識，縮小這個歧見。"],["陳委員玉珍：沒關係，我覺得有一個方法，你們可以繼續討論啊！你們可以繼續，還可以繼續凝聚共識啊！如果你們覺得現在修了真的很慘，你們可以繼續凝聚共識嘛！你看你們的共識還要凝聚多久呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，我想這個部分，我們會先就立法院三讀通過的法案，做一個通盤的審視，對中央施政的障礙，我們會先做審視。"],["陳委員玉珍：好，我們來看一下，你們說什麼擴大城鄉差距，事實上我按照你們這張試算的結果來講，你看看，事實上縣市政府增加了170%，六都增加了60%。所以按財政部的試算表，非直轄市的縣市政府是受益的，大幅提高了縣市政府的財政能力，而不是拉高、拉大六都跟非六都的差距。這個我要跟您說一下，這是按照你們的表格，你有看到嗎？沒錯吧？"],["莊部長翠雲：拉大應該是相對的……"],["陳委員玉珍：對，事實上是縣市政府大幅提高，提高170%，六都才提高60%。另外我又聽到很多委員講，像我們召委是臺南的，比如黃偉哲說不公平，臺南怎樣，好像對他們高雄、臺南都是不公平。我要按照這個表格跟你們說一下，在修法前，就是卓榮泰所說的最好方案，就是原來那個法律嘛！原來是北大於南，卓榮泰說最好的方案，請問修法前臺南是拿多少統籌款？"],["莊部長翠雲：現制分配是不是？322。"],["陳委員玉珍：322億嘛！是排名第幾？"],["莊部長翠雲：排名這個要……"],["陳委員玉珍：第六啦！我幫你排了啦！我幫你算出來了，六都裡臺南在修法前是第六，高雄在修法前拿多少統籌款？500億。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，500。"],["陳委員玉珍：好，是排名第幾？第三。所以修法前臺南是第六，高雄是第三，修法後排名有改變嗎？高雄也是第三，臺南也是第六嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有……"],["陳委員玉珍：再來我講一下，我覺得臺南的委員可以聽一下，我們其中有一條可能對臺南、高雄是很有幫助的，這一條特別講一下。這條就是我們那時候有說，保障一般性補助款不得降低，就是在修法不能低於前一年的。那你看這一年來，屏東、臺南跟高雄，從110年到114年，屏東一般性補助款都是第一名，高雄市都是第二名，臺南市是都是第三名，我們還保障原來這些縣市一般性補助款比較高的金額，修法後這些還是給你們這樣的金額，所以相對的這些縣市，就這些屏東縣、臺南市和高雄市一般性補助款原來就比較多，也不會降低。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，財劃法中央統籌分配稅款用意在於調劑盈虛。"],["陳委員玉珍：沒錯、沒錯。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員看一下，是不是把這個差距越拉越大了？你看跟臺北市相較，它增加的幅度有多少？"],["陳委員玉珍：我現在講的是我們對臺南和高雄因為補助了一般性補助款這一條，所以我們對臺南、高雄、屏東南部縣市，我很多親友都住在高雄和臺南，我對高雄、臺南都很有感情，像屏東也有一點親戚，臺南、高雄、屏東都是第一名、第二名、第三名，我們要求你們不能把這些縣市的一般性補助款降低，它本來就是比較高的，還要保障它們，所以事實上對臺南、高雄、屏東來講也算是很公平，不會讓這些臺南市的委員、高雄市的委員、屏東的委員回去沒有辦法交代。你看一下這個，謝謝你。"],["主席：謝謝陳玉珍委員。","接著請洪孟楷、洪孟楷，洪孟楷委員不在。","蘇清泉、蘇清泉，蘇清泉委員不在。","鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐，鄭正鈐委員不在。","葉元之、葉元之，葉元之委員不在。","陳培瑜、陳培瑜，陳培瑜委員不在。","鍾佳濱、鍾佳濱，鍾佳濱委員不在。","今天登記發言的委員均已詢答完畢，現在討論事項第一案到第三案跟臨時提案共2案的處理，預計宣讀時間13分鐘，宣讀完畢以後，我們進行協商，請議事人員宣讀。","INCLUDEPICTURE \"d:\\\\users\\\\2TK42201XK\\\\Desktop\\\\62_頁面_01.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT","INCLUDEPICTURE \"d:\\\\users\\\\2TK42201XK\\\\Desktop\\\\63_頁面_01.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT","INCLUDEPICTURE \"d:\\\\users\\\\2TK42201TY\\\\Desktop\\\\掃描.暫存\\\\55_頁面_1.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT","二、臨時提案：","1.公股四大金控旗下子公司重疊性高，例如均設有證券、投信、資產管理、創投，然而規模不大，綜效有限，對金控獲利貢獻相當有限。以投信為例，112年四家投信獲利介於負0.1億至1.1億；而資產管理公司獲利則介於0.27億至3.4億。另，為因應處理亞洲金融風暴帶來的大量不良資產，2001年各銀行投資設立台灣金聯公司，其中公股持股超過八成，然而四大金控成立之後又各自成立AMC，時至今日，當年不良資產幾已處理完畢，加以金融監管加強，各銀行逾放比處歷史低檔，台灣金聯及各金控旗下AMC業務有限。以台灣金聯為例，近年營收不到20億元，業務單純，而董事長年度薪酬近千萬，更是國有金控的3倍以上，導致近年人事爭議不斷，外界亦有批評炒房、炒股，先前更發生高層炒股違法發放7,000萬獎金弊案。使資源有效利用、提高經營績效，公股金控整併議題向為各界所關注，考量企業文化、員工意願及推動難度，應考慮優先推動金控子公司整併，特別是前述投信、資產管理公司、台灣金聯等公司整併，並檢討台灣金聯董座薪資合理性，以提高國庫投資效益，請財政部於2個月內提出具體評估報告。","提案人：郭國文　　伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe　　　　賴惠員","2.","案由：","我國國民黨立委強行黑箱通過《財政收支劃分法》，要求中央釋出3,753億元給地方政府，將嚴重衝擊我國中央預算。","然而，面對過時且不合時宜之印花稅與娛樂稅，過去財政部皆以相關稅則為「地方政府的重要財源，且替代財源的籌措仍有困難，還不宜廢止」作為反對廢止之理由；惟現今地方政府獲得3,753億之收入，故先前主張之反對理由已不存在。","爰提案請財政部重新研議廢除印花稅與娛樂稅，並於一個月內提出書面報告。","提案人：郭國文","連署人：伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe　　　　賴惠員"]],"agenda":{"page_end":106,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-13","speakers":["賴惠員","賴士葆","陳菁徽","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","顏寬恒","李坤城","李彥秀","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王世堅","黃健豪","黃珊珊","羅明才","張啓楷","陳玉珍","王鴻薇"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-25"],"gazette_id":"1141203","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1141203_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「菸酒稅法」 10 案：( 一) 行政院函請審議、本院委員李柏毅等 16 人、委員賴惠員等16\n人、委員郭國文等 18 人、委員吳琪銘等 16 人分別擬具「菸酒稅法部分條文修正草案」等 5 案、\n(二)本院委員徐巧芯等29人擬具「菸酒稅法第十九條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員賴士葆等\n27人、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等20人、委員張智倫等18人分別擬具「菸酒稅法第十九\n條及第二十一條條文修正草案」等3案、(四)本院委員陳玉珍等19人擬具「菸酒稅法第十九條及\n第二十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查「使用牌照稅法」8案：(一) 行政院函請審議、本院委\n員賴士葆等24人、委員陳菁徽等17人、委員張智倫等18人、委員陳素月等19人、委員賴惠員等17\n人、委員郭國文等16人分別擬具「使用牌照稅法第二十九條、第三十條及第三十一條條文修正草\n案」等7案、(二) 本院委員陳玉珍等19人擬具「使用牌照稅法第三十條及第三十一條條文修正草\n案」案；三、審查行政院函請審議、本院委員賴士葆等21人、委員林楚茵等18人、委員徐巧芯等\n27人、委員賴惠員等17人、委員郭國文等17人分別擬具「土地稅法第五十四條條文修正草案」等\n6案；四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分，關於財政部主管中國\n輸出入銀行、臺灣金融控股股份有限公司（含臺灣銀行股份有限公司、臺銀人壽保險股份有限公\n司、臺銀綜合證券股份有限公司）（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1141203_00001"}}}