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\"end\": 220.048, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 220.048, \"end\": 220.068, \"score\": 0.003}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,410 --> 00:00:26,733\n接下來我們請審發會委員請發言主席、各位同仁我想我們現在已經進入了主條進入我們今天第一條的立法目的討論\n\n2\n00:00:28,613 --> 00:00:50,696\n剛才有這麼多的政治口水實在是不太想回應但是我們就就事論事就法論法剛才有提到整個立法程序過程裡面的一些問題其實這一條第一條裡面最大的大概還有爭議的就是到底是公部門先行公部門到包括什麼範圍或者是公部門跟私部門都一起同時來進行這個所謂的揭弊者保護\n\n3\n00:00:51,786 --> 00:01:07,262\n在這個部分在我們的委員會立法過程裡面事實上國民黨一開始提出來的版本也是公部門加私部門民眾黨也是公部門加私部門但是民進黨一直主張公部門先行公私分流\n\n4\n00:01:08,362 --> 00:01:36,741\n最後國民黨在委員會審查的時候他們同意接近了民進黨的看法國民黨也提出了公私分流國民黨也主張說那就是公部門先行但是呢民眾黨堅持堅持私部門一定要放進來為什麼會每一條都保留因為民眾黨一直堅持啊在現場審查就是這樣子啊民眾黨說私部門不行他要堅持那要堅持沒有辦法要堅持不然不保留難道要打架\n\n5\n00:01:38,211 --> 00:02:01,878\n所以就這樣子保留了那有關於公司分流、公部門先行這部分我想大家討論的也都非常的多私部門納入的問題在許多的對於目前不管是這個私方、勞方有許多的大企業、中小企業或者是這些上市公司大家都有保留的意見\n\n6\n00:02:03,138 --> 00:02:24,735\n都認為說現在私部門如果納入這個揭弊者保護法裡面恐怕會嚴重的衝擊企業內部的關係以及甚至會危及台灣的經濟包括當時國民黨團提出的修正公益的理由就是說他們看了太多由於在上市公司由於商業競爭的關係\n\n7\n00:02:26,616 --> 00:02:48,868\n在特定的期間內用各種方式來影響到市場上面的價值市場上面的走向這個他們看太多了因此他們也覺得很害怕所以國民黨那時候國民黨的召委就提出說他的修正動議就是公私分流公部門先行這部分基本上國民黨跟民進黨是達成共識的但是\n\n8\n00:02:49,668 --> 00:03:04,655\n公布能包括哪一些範圍這部分就是我今天第一條我們民進黨認為說國民黨所提的法案有問題國民黨提出來的包括政府部門、國營事業以及政府控制的事業\n\n9\n00:03:06,024 --> 00:03:19,679\n至於什麼是政府控制的事業我想這個在法律上是一個不明確的概念政府什麼地方控制是多少幾%的投資額嗎或者是說要控制人事政府控制的事業、團體、機構什麼樣的團體、什麼樣的機構要適用\n\n10\n00:03:30,144 --> 00:03:40,068\n團體機構事業組織長暫時領導人會審清楚的把他定義在公共部門、國營事業、公民事業、政府部門及建黨權力的組織以上\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n410\t26733\t接下來我們請審發會委員請發言主席、各位同仁我想我們現在已經進入了主條進入我們今天第一條的立法目的討論\n28613\t50696\t剛才有這麼多的政治口水實在是不太想回應但是我們就就事論事就法論法剛才有提到整個立法程序過程裡面的一些問題其實這一條第一條裡面最大的大概還有爭議的就是到底是公部門先行公部門到包括什麼範圍或者是公部門跟私部門都一起同時來進行這個所謂的揭弊者保護\n51786\t67262\t在這個部分在我們的委員會立法過程裡面事實上國民黨一開始提出來的版本也是公部門加私部門民眾黨也是公部門加私部門但是民進黨一直主張公部門先行公私分流\n68362\t96741\t最後國民黨在委員會審查的時候他們同意接近了民進黨的看法國民黨也提出了公私分流國民黨也主張說那就是公部門先行但是呢民眾黨堅持堅持私部門一定要放進來為什麼會每一條都保留因為民眾黨一直堅持啊在現場審查就是這樣子啊民眾黨說私部門不行他要堅持那要堅持沒有辦法要堅持不然不保留難道要打架\n98211\t121878\t所以就這樣子保留了那有關於公司分流、公部門先行這部分我想大家討論的也都非常的多私部門納入的問題在許多的對於目前不管是這個私方、勞方有許多的大企業、中小企業或者是這些上市公司大家都有保留的意見\n123138\t144735\t都認為說現在私部門如果納入這個揭弊者保護法裡面恐怕會嚴重的衝擊企業內部的關係以及甚至會危及台灣的經濟包括當時國民黨團提出的修正公益的理由就是說他們看了太多由於在上市公司由於商業競爭的關係\n146616\t168868\t在特定的期間內用各種方式來影響到市場上面的價值市場上面的走向這個他們看太多了因此他們也覺得很害怕所以國民黨那時候國民黨的召委就提出說他的修正動議就是公私分流公部門先行這部分基本上國民黨跟民進黨是達成共識的但是\n169668\t184655\t公布能包括哪一些範圍這部分就是我今天第一條我們民進黨認為說國民黨所提的法案有問題國民黨提出來的包括政府部門、國營事業以及政府控制的事業\n186024\t199679\t至於什麼是政府控制的事業我想這個在法律上是一個不明確的概念政府什麼地方控制是多少幾%的投資額嗎或者是說要控制人事政府控制的事業、團體、機構什麼樣的團體、什麼樣的機構要適用\n210144\t220068\t團體機構事業組織長暫時領導人會審清楚的把他定義在公共部門、國營事業、公民事業、政府部門及建黨權力的組織以上\n","txt":"接下來我們請審發會委員請發言主席、各位同仁我想我們現在已經進入了主條進入我們今天第一條的立法目的討論\n剛才有這麼多的政治口水實在是不太想回應但是我們就就事論事就法論法剛才有提到整個立法程序過程裡面的一些問題其實這一條第一條裡面最大的大概還有爭議的就是到底是公部門先行公部門到包括什麼範圍或者是公部門跟私部門都一起同時來進行這個所謂的揭弊者保護\n在這個部分在我們的委員會立法過程裡面事實上國民黨一開始提出來的版本也是公部門加私部門民眾黨也是公部門加私部門但是民進黨一直主張公部門先行公私分流\n最後國民黨在委員會審查的時候他們同意接近了民進黨的看法國民黨也提出了公私分流國民黨也主張說那就是公部門先行但是呢民眾黨堅持堅持私部門一定要放進來為什麼會每一條都保留因為民眾黨一直堅持啊在現場審查就是這樣子啊民眾黨說私部門不行他要堅持那要堅持沒有辦法要堅持不然不保留難道要打架\n所以就這樣子保留了那有關於公司分流、公部門先行這部分我想大家討論的也都非常的多私部門納入的問題在許多的對於目前不管是這個私方、勞方有許多的大企業、中小企業或者是這些上市公司大家都有保留的意見\n都認為說現在私部門如果納入這個揭弊者保護法裡面恐怕會嚴重的衝擊企業內部的關係以及甚至會危及台灣的經濟包括當時國民黨團提出的修正公益的理由就是說他們看了太多由於在上市公司由於商業競爭的關係\n在特定的期間內用各種方式來影響到市場上面的價值市場上面的走向這個他們看太多了因此他們也覺得很害怕所以國民黨那時候國民黨的召委就提出說他的修正動議就是公私分流公部門先行這部分基本上國民黨跟民進黨是達成共識的但是\n公布能包括哪一些範圍這部分就是我今天第一條我們民進黨認為說國民黨所提的法案有問題國民黨提出來的包括政府部門、國營事業以及政府控制的事業\n至於什麼是政府控制的事業我想這個在法律上是一個不明確的概念政府什麼地方控制是多少幾%的投資額嗎或者是說要控制人事政府控制的事業、團體、機構什麼樣的團體、什麼樣的機構要適用\n團體機構事業組織長暫時領導人會審清楚的把他定義在公共部門、國營事業、公民事業、政府部門及建黨權力的組織以上\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.410 --> 00:26.733\n接下來我們請審發會委員請發言主席、各位同仁我想我們現在已經進入了主條進入我們今天第一條的立法目的討論\n\n00:28.613 --> 00:50.696\n剛才有這麼多的政治口水實在是不太想回應但是我們就就事論事就法論法剛才有提到整個立法程序過程裡面的一些問題其實這一條第一條裡面最大的大概還有爭議的就是到底是公部門先行公部門到包括什麼範圍或者是公部門跟私部門都一起同時來進行這個所謂的揭弊者保護\n\n00:51.786 --> 01:07.262\n在這個部分在我們的委員會立法過程裡面事實上國民黨一開始提出來的版本也是公部門加私部門民眾黨也是公部門加私部門但是民進黨一直主張公部門先行公私分流\n\n01:08.362 --> 01:36.741\n最後國民黨在委員會審查的時候他們同意接近了民進黨的看法國民黨也提出了公私分流國民黨也主張說那就是公部門先行但是呢民眾黨堅持堅持私部門一定要放進來為什麼會每一條都保留因為民眾黨一直堅持啊在現場審查就是這樣子啊民眾黨說私部門不行他要堅持那要堅持沒有辦法要堅持不然不保留難道要打架\n\n01:38.211 --> 02:01.878\n所以就這樣子保留了那有關於公司分流、公部門先行這部分我想大家討論的也都非常的多私部門納入的問題在許多的對於目前不管是這個私方、勞方有許多的大企業、中小企業或者是這些上市公司大家都有保留的意見\n\n02:03.138 --> 02:24.735\n都認為說現在私部門如果納入這個揭弊者保護法裡面恐怕會嚴重的衝擊企業內部的關係以及甚至會危及台灣的經濟包括當時國民黨團提出的修正公益的理由就是說他們看了太多由於在上市公司由於商業競爭的關係\n\n02:26.616 --> 02:48.868\n在特定的期間內用各種方式來影響到市場上面的價值市場上面的走向這個他們看太多了因此他們也覺得很害怕所以國民黨那時候國民黨的召委就提出說他的修正動議就是公私分流公部門先行這部分基本上國民黨跟民進黨是達成共識的但是\n\n02:49.668 --> 03:04.655\n公布能包括哪一些範圍這部分就是我今天第一條我們民進黨認為說國民黨所提的法案有問題國民黨提出來的包括政府部門、國營事業以及政府控制的事業\n\n03:06.024 --> 03:19.679\n至於什麼是政府控制的事業我想這個在法律上是一個不明確的概念政府什麼地方控制是多少幾%的投資額嗎或者是說要控制人事政府控制的事業、團體、機構什麼樣的團體、什麼樣的機構要適用\n\n03:30.144 --> 03:40.068\n團體機構事業組織長暫時領導人會審清楚的把他定義在公共部門、國營事業、公民事業、政府部門及建黨權力的組織以上\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.41,"end":26.733,"text":"接下來我們請審發會委員請發言主席、各位同仁我想我們現在已經進入了主條進入我們今天第一條的立法目的討論"},{"start":28.613,"end":50.696,"text":"剛才有這麼多的政治口水實在是不太想回應但是我們就就事論事就法論法剛才有提到整個立法程序過程裡面的一些問題其實這一條第一條裡面最大的大概還有爭議的就是到底是公部門先行公部門到包括什麼範圍或者是公部門跟私部門都一起同時來進行這個所謂的揭弊者保護"},{"start":51.786,"end":67.262,"text":"在這個部分在我們的委員會立法過程裡面事實上國民黨一開始提出來的版本也是公部門加私部門民眾黨也是公部門加私部門但是民進黨一直主張公部門先行公私分流"},{"start":68.362,"end":96.741,"text":"最後國民黨在委員會審查的時候他們同意接近了民進黨的看法國民黨也提出了公私分流國民黨也主張說那就是公部門先行但是呢民眾黨堅持堅持私部門一定要放進來為什麼會每一條都保留因為民眾黨一直堅持啊在現場審查就是這樣子啊民眾黨說私部門不行他要堅持那要堅持沒有辦法要堅持不然不保留難道要打架"},{"start":98.211,"end":121.878,"text":"所以就這樣子保留了那有關於公司分流、公部門先行這部分我想大家討論的也都非常的多私部門納入的問題在許多的對於目前不管是這個私方、勞方有許多的大企業、中小企業或者是這些上市公司大家都有保留的意見"},{"start":123.138,"end":144.735,"text":"都認為說現在私部門如果納入這個揭弊者保護法裡面恐怕會嚴重的衝擊企業內部的關係以及甚至會危及台灣的經濟包括當時國民黨團提出的修正公益的理由就是說他們看了太多由於在上市公司由於商業競爭的關係"},{"start":146.616,"end":168.868,"text":"在特定的期間內用各種方式來影響到市場上面的價值市場上面的走向這個他們看太多了因此他們也覺得很害怕所以國民黨那時候國民黨的召委就提出說他的修正動議就是公私分流公部門先行這部分基本上國民黨跟民進黨是達成共識的但是"},{"start":169.668,"end":184.655,"text":"公布能包括哪一些範圍這部分就是我今天第一條我們民進黨認為說國民黨所提的法案有問題國民黨提出來的包括政府部門、國營事業以及政府控制的事業"},{"start":186.024,"end":199.679,"text":"至於什麼是政府控制的事業我想這個在法律上是一個不明確的概念政府什麼地方控制是多少幾%的投資額嗎或者是說要控制人事政府控制的事業、團體、機構什麼樣的團體、什麼樣的機構要適用"},{"start":210.144,"end":220.068,"text":"團體機構事業組織長暫時領導人會審清楚的把他定義在公共部門、國營事業、公民事業、政府部門及建黨權力的組織以上"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":293,"blocks":[["沈委員發惠：（11時20分）主席、各位同仁。我想我們現在已經進入了逐條，進入我們今天第一條立法目的的討論，剛才有這麼多的政治口水，實在是不太想回應，但是我們就事論事、就法論法。剛才有提到整個立法程序過程裡面的一些問題，其實第一條裡面大概還有爭議的就是到底是公部門先行，公部門包括什麼範圍，或者是公部門跟私部門都一起同時來進行這個所謂的揭弊者保護。在這個部分，在我們委員會的立法過程裡面，事實上國民黨一開始提出來的版本也是公部門加私部門，民眾黨也是公部門加私部門，但是民進黨一直主張公部門先行、公私分流。最後國民黨在委員會審查的時候，他們同意接近了民進黨的看法，國民黨也提出了公私分流，國民黨也主張那就公部門先行，但是民眾黨堅持私部門一定要放進來。為什麼會每一條都保留？因為民眾黨一直堅持，在現場審查就是這樣子啊！民眾黨說私部門也要，它要堅持，那要堅持，沒有辦法，不保留難道要打架？所以就這樣子保留了。","那有關於公私分流、公部門先行，這個部分我想大家討論的也都非常的多，私部門納入的問題對於目前不管是資方、勞方，有許多的大企業、中小企業或者是這些上市公司，大家都有保留的意見，都認為現在私部門如果納入揭弊者保護法裡面，恐怕會嚴重衝擊企業內部的關係，甚至會危及臺灣的經濟，包括當時國民黨團提出修正動議的理由，就是說他們看了太多上市公司由於商業競爭的關係，在特定的期間內，用各種方式來影響到市場上面的價值、市場上面的走向，這個他們看太多了，因此他們也覺得很害怕，所以國民黨的召委那時候就提出他的修正動議，就是公私分流、公部門先行，這部分基本上國民黨跟民進黨是達成共識的。但是公部門包括哪一些範圍？這部分就是今天第一條，我們民進黨認為國民黨所提的法案有問題，國民黨提出來的包括政府部門、國營事業以及政府控制的事業。至於什麼是政府控制的事業？我想這個在法律上是一個不明確的概念，政府什麼地方控制？是百分之幾的投資額嗎？或者是說它控制人事？政府控制的事業、團體、機構，什麼樣的團體、什麼樣的機構要適用？所以民進黨對於這個政府控制的團體、機構、事業，民進黨不贊成，民進黨認為很清楚的把它定義在公部門、國營事業、公營事業，這部分民進黨全力地支持。以上。"],["主席：謝謝沈發惠委員的發言。","報告院會，我們現在處理第一條。","按鈴7分鐘，分發表決卡。現在開始按鈴。","（按鈴）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":2,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-15","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-27"],"gazette_id":"1140701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第15次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1140701_00001"}}}