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\"end\": 188.866, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 188.866, \"end\": 188.966, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 188.966, \"end\": 189.086, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 189.086, \"end\": 189.366, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 189.366, \"end\": 189.826, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 189.826, \"end\": 190.047, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 190.047, \"end\": 190.207, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 190.207, \"end\": 190.567, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"諷\"}, {\"word\": \"刺\", \"start\": 190.567, \"end\": 190.587, \"score\": 0.149}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 218.653, \"end\": 218.673, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,260 --> 00:00:37,984\n主席那我們現在今天在處理這個揭弊者保護法那這個第7條跟楊瓊瓔的第4條跟我們林月琴委員第7條的版本基本上是一樣的文字那整個揭弊者事實上最大的爭議點就在於說公部門大家沒有意見那就私部門的部分我們要怎樣去遏止所謂惡意的一個揭弊者\n\n2\n00:00:38,524 --> 00:00:57,432\n因為我們在過去的很多實務上都知道說事實上很多中小企業包括台灣有167萬間中小企業他們的生存基本上非常的重要那如果是有很多惡意揭弊者可能在跟跟他們的企業如果\n\n3\n00:00:58,312 --> 00:01:19,292\n有離職或者是怎樣的一個狀況之下然後去做一些不實的指控但是這個指控在被查證之前被證實是否是正確之前它都是變成一個揭弊者的一個角色那這樣一個揭弊者的角色如果在這個揭弊者保護法被適用的情況之下變得這個企業上\n\n4\n00:01:21,434 --> 00:01:47,356\n在於說要把事情要把它舉證到最後的水落石出這個需要時間那這就會無形中傷害了這些企業所以我們在過去的很多經驗也知道很多立法的過程事實上是要按部就班而不是一次你就想要把什麼都又放進來那等到了後來在試用上產生狀況的時候大家就會發現\n\n5\n00:01:49,116 --> 00:02:12,268\n像過去我們在舉發很多交通事件違規的時候然後有所謂的這個檢舉達人在當時檢舉達人發生了後事實上後來也是要透過再次的修法去調整這個交通事件哪些是適用檢舉達人所以今天的整個揭弊者保護法基本上大家都有這樣的\n\n6\n00:02:13,368 --> 00:02:29,641\n方向我們要來完成這樣的立法但是在這個立法的過程中內我們也知道到底哪一些人哪一些人事物應該是要被保護那我現在也舉一個例子嘛最近都有看到\n\n7\n00:02:32,383 --> 00:02:54,998\n當時有一個叫做端木正的當端木正在說他在處理政治先驚民眾黨的政治先驚有狀況的時候我看到了黃國昌開了記者會說他絕不容許端木正卸責推託直接叫律師告他直接叫律師告他這樣算是在保護揭弊者嗎最近有一個朱亞虎\n\n8\n00:02:56,139 --> 00:03:10,587\n那黃國昌早就開機加揮說他是報復省契金民眾黨不會做事不管等於是用群眾的力量要給這樣的一個揭弊者給他壓力所以我是覺得非常的諷刺\n\n9\n00:03:38,653 --> 00:03:38,673\n好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10260\t37984\t主席那我們現在今天在處理這個揭弊者保護法那這個第7條跟楊瓊瓔的第4條跟我們林月琴委員第7條的版本基本上是一樣的文字那整個揭弊者事實上最大的爭議點就在於說公部門大家沒有意見那就私部門的部分我們要怎樣去遏止所謂惡意的一個揭弊者\n38524\t57432\t因為我們在過去的很多實務上都知道說事實上很多中小企業包括台灣有167萬間中小企業他們的生存基本上非常的重要那如果是有很多惡意揭弊者可能在跟跟他們的企業如果\n58312\t79292\t有離職或者是怎樣的一個狀況之下然後去做一些不實的指控但是這個指控在被查證之前被證實是否是正確之前它都是變成一個揭弊者的一個角色那這樣一個揭弊者的角色如果在這個揭弊者保護法被適用的情況之下變得這個企業上\n81434\t107356\t在於說要把事情要把它舉證到最後的水落石出這個需要時間那這就會無形中傷害了這些企業所以我們在過去的很多經驗也知道很多立法的過程事實上是要按部就班而不是一次你就想要把什麼都又放進來那等到了後來在試用上產生狀況的時候大家就會發現\n109116\t132268\t像過去我們在舉發很多交通事件違規的時候然後有所謂的這個檢舉達人在當時檢舉達人發生了後事實上後來也是要透過再次的修法去調整這個交通事件哪些是適用檢舉達人所以今天的整個揭弊者保護法基本上大家都有這樣的\n133368\t149641\t方向我們要來完成這樣的立法但是在這個立法的過程中內我們也知道到底哪一些人哪一些人事物應該是要被保護那我現在也舉一個例子嘛最近都有看到\n152383\t174998\t當時有一個叫做端木正的當端木正在說他在處理政治先驚民眾黨的政治先驚有狀況的時候我看到了黃國昌開了記者會說他絕不容許端木正卸責推託直接叫律師告他直接叫律師告他這樣算是在保護揭弊者嗎最近有一個朱亞虎\n176139\t190587\t那黃國昌早就開機加揮說他是報復省契金民眾黨不會做事不管等於是用群眾的力量要給這樣的一個揭弊者給他壓力所以我是覺得非常的諷刺\n218653\t218673\t好 謝謝\n","txt":"主席那我們現在今天在處理這個揭弊者保護法那這個第7條跟楊瓊瓔的第4條跟我們林月琴委員第7條的版本基本上是一樣的文字那整個揭弊者事實上最大的爭議點就在於說公部門大家沒有意見那就私部門的部分我們要怎樣去遏止所謂惡意的一個揭弊者\n因為我們在過去的很多實務上都知道說事實上很多中小企業包括台灣有167萬間中小企業他們的生存基本上非常的重要那如果是有很多惡意揭弊者可能在跟跟他們的企業如果\n有離職或者是怎樣的一個狀況之下然後去做一些不實的指控但是這個指控在被查證之前被證實是否是正確之前它都是變成一個揭弊者的一個角色那這樣一個揭弊者的角色如果在這個揭弊者保護法被適用的情況之下變得這個企業上\n在於說要把事情要把它舉證到最後的水落石出這個需要時間那這就會無形中傷害了這些企業所以我們在過去的很多經驗也知道很多立法的過程事實上是要按部就班而不是一次你就想要把什麼都又放進來那等到了後來在試用上產生狀況的時候大家就會發現\n像過去我們在舉發很多交通事件違規的時候然後有所謂的這個檢舉達人在當時檢舉達人發生了後事實上後來也是要透過再次的修法去調整這個交通事件哪些是適用檢舉達人所以今天的整個揭弊者保護法基本上大家都有這樣的\n方向我們要來完成這樣的立法但是在這個立法的過程中內我們也知道到底哪一些人哪一些人事物應該是要被保護那我現在也舉一個例子嘛最近都有看到\n當時有一個叫做端木正的當端木正在說他在處理政治先驚民眾黨的政治先驚有狀況的時候我看到了黃國昌開了記者會說他絕不容許端木正卸責推託直接叫律師告他直接叫律師告他這樣算是在保護揭弊者嗎最近有一個朱亞虎\n那黃國昌早就開機加揮說他是報復省契金民眾黨不會做事不管等於是用群眾的力量要給這樣的一個揭弊者給他壓力所以我是覺得非常的諷刺\n好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.260 --> 00:37.984\n主席那我們現在今天在處理這個揭弊者保護法那這個第7條跟楊瓊瓔的第4條跟我們林月琴委員第7條的版本基本上是一樣的文字那整個揭弊者事實上最大的爭議點就在於說公部門大家沒有意見那就私部門的部分我們要怎樣去遏止所謂惡意的一個揭弊者\n\n00:38.524 --> 00:57.432\n因為我們在過去的很多實務上都知道說事實上很多中小企業包括台灣有167萬間中小企業他們的生存基本上非常的重要那如果是有很多惡意揭弊者可能在跟跟他們的企業如果\n\n00:58.312 --> 01:19.292\n有離職或者是怎樣的一個狀況之下然後去做一些不實的指控但是這個指控在被查證之前被證實是否是正確之前它都是變成一個揭弊者的一個角色那這樣一個揭弊者的角色如果在這個揭弊者保護法被適用的情況之下變得這個企業上\n\n01:21.434 --> 01:47.356\n在於說要把事情要把它舉證到最後的水落石出這個需要時間那這就會無形中傷害了這些企業所以我們在過去的很多經驗也知道很多立法的過程事實上是要按部就班而不是一次你就想要把什麼都又放進來那等到了後來在試用上產生狀況的時候大家就會發現\n\n01:49.116 --> 02:12.268\n像過去我們在舉發很多交通事件違規的時候然後有所謂的這個檢舉達人在當時檢舉達人發生了後事實上後來也是要透過再次的修法去調整這個交通事件哪些是適用檢舉達人所以今天的整個揭弊者保護法基本上大家都有這樣的\n\n02:13.368 --> 02:29.641\n方向我們要來完成這樣的立法但是在這個立法的過程中內我們也知道到底哪一些人哪一些人事物應該是要被保護那我現在也舉一個例子嘛最近都有看到\n\n02:32.383 --> 02:54.998\n當時有一個叫做端木正的當端木正在說他在處理政治先驚民眾黨的政治先驚有狀況的時候我看到了黃國昌開了記者會說他絕不容許端木正卸責推託直接叫律師告他直接叫律師告他這樣算是在保護揭弊者嗎最近有一個朱亞虎\n\n02:56.139 --> 03:10.587\n那黃國昌早就開機加揮說他是報復省契金民眾黨不會做事不管等於是用群眾的力量要給這樣的一個揭弊者給他壓力所以我是覺得非常的諷刺\n\n03:38.653 --> 03:38.673\n好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.26,"end":37.984,"text":"主席那我們現在今天在處理這個揭弊者保護法那這個第7條跟楊瓊瓔的第4條跟我們林月琴委員第7條的版本基本上是一樣的文字那整個揭弊者事實上最大的爭議點就在於說公部門大家沒有意見那就私部門的部分我們要怎樣去遏止所謂惡意的一個揭弊者"},{"start":38.524,"end":57.432,"text":"因為我們在過去的很多實務上都知道說事實上很多中小企業包括台灣有167萬間中小企業他們的生存基本上非常的重要那如果是有很多惡意揭弊者可能在跟跟他們的企業如果"},{"start":58.312,"end":79.292,"text":"有離職或者是怎樣的一個狀況之下然後去做一些不實的指控但是這個指控在被查證之前被證實是否是正確之前它都是變成一個揭弊者的一個角色那這樣一個揭弊者的角色如果在這個揭弊者保護法被適用的情況之下變得這個企業上"},{"start":81.434,"end":107.356,"text":"在於說要把事情要把它舉證到最後的水落石出這個需要時間那這就會無形中傷害了這些企業所以我們在過去的很多經驗也知道很多立法的過程事實上是要按部就班而不是一次你就想要把什麼都又放進來那等到了後來在試用上產生狀況的時候大家就會發現"},{"start":109.116,"end":132.268,"text":"像過去我們在舉發很多交通事件違規的時候然後有所謂的這個檢舉達人在當時檢舉達人發生了後事實上後來也是要透過再次的修法去調整這個交通事件哪些是適用檢舉達人所以今天的整個揭弊者保護法基本上大家都有這樣的"},{"start":133.368,"end":149.641,"text":"方向我們要來完成這樣的立法但是在這個立法的過程中內我們也知道到底哪一些人哪一些人事物應該是要被保護那我現在也舉一個例子嘛最近都有看到"},{"start":152.383,"end":174.998,"text":"當時有一個叫做端木正的當端木正在說他在處理政治先驚民眾黨的政治先驚有狀況的時候我看到了黃國昌開了記者會說他絕不容許端木正卸責推託直接叫律師告他直接叫律師告他這樣算是在保護揭弊者嗎最近有一個朱亞虎"},{"start":176.139,"end":190.587,"text":"那黃國昌早就開機加揮說他是報復省契金民眾黨不會做事不管等於是用群眾的力量要給這樣的一個揭弊者給他壓力所以我是覺得非常的諷刺"},{"start":218.653,"end":218.673,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":287,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（15時23分）主席。我們今天在處理揭弊者保護法，楊瓊瓔的第四條跟林月琴委員第七條的版本，基本上是一樣的文字，整個揭弊者保護法，事實上最大的爭議點就在於公部門大家沒有意見，就私部門的部分，我們要怎樣去遏止所謂惡意的揭弊者？因為我們從過去的很多實務上都知道，事實上很多中小企業，包括臺灣有167萬間中小企業，他們的生存基本上非常重要，有很多惡意揭弊者可能在跟他們的企業……如果有離職或者是怎樣的狀況之下，然後去做一些不實的指控，但是這個指控在被查證之前、被證實是否是正確之前，他都變成一個揭弊者的角色，那這樣一個揭弊者的角色，如果在揭弊者保護法被適用的情況之下，企業要把事情舉證到最後水落石出需要時間，無形中就會傷害了這一些企業。所以我們從過去的很多經驗也知道，很多立法的過程事實上是要按部就班，而不是一次就照你想的把什麼都放進來，等到後來在適用上產生狀況的時候，大家就會發現了！就像過去我們在舉發很多交通事件違規的時候有所謂的檢舉達人，在當時發生了檢舉達人這種問題，事實上，後來也是要透過再次修法去調整，規定有哪些交通事件是適用檢舉達人。所以今天的整個揭弊者保護法，基本上大家都有這樣的方向，就是我們要來完成這樣的立法，但是在這個立法的過程中，我們也知道到底哪些人、事、物應該要被保護。","我現在也舉一個例子，大家在最近都有看到有一個叫做端木正的人，當端木正說他處理民眾黨的政治獻金有狀況的時候，我看到黃國昌開了記者會說他絕不容許端木正卸責推託，直接叫律師告他，這樣算是在保護揭弊者嗎？最近還有一個朱亞虎，黃國昌昨天又開記者會說：他是報復沈慶京，民眾黨不會坐視不管，等於是用群眾的力量要給這樣的揭弊者壓力。所以我覺得非常的諷刺，你的揭弊者保護還有雙標，我覺得黃國昌要好好的去看這個起訴書，你把它讀一下，你覺得朱亞虎的狀況到底是怎麼樣？真的是像你講的嗎？還是黃國昌說要保護揭弊者，可是只有朱亞虎不是你要保護的揭弊者？我覺得要立這個法，大家一起來討論，但是絕對不要雙標。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","登記委員已經發言完畢。","報告院會，本條因台灣民眾黨、國民黨、民進黨三黨團再修正動議均相同，我們就無異議照三黨黨團再修正動議不予增訂通過。","請宣讀第八條條文。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":200,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-15","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","黃國昌","莊瑞雄","洪孟楷","吳秉叡","吳思瑤","陳玉珍","廖偉翔","林國成","沈發惠","張啓楷","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","徐巧芯","沈伯洋","王義川","蔡易餘","李坤城","林楚茵"],"page_start":14,"meetingDate":["2024-12-27"],"gazette_id":"1140701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1140701_00002","1140701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第15次會議紀錄","content":"討論事項\n公益揭弊者保護法－完成三讀－","agenda_id":"1140701_00003"}}}