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{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 109.839, \"end\": 109.939, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 109.939, \"end\": 110.019, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 110.019, \"end\": 110.18, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 110.18, \"end\": 110.2, \"score\": 0.999}]}, {\"start\": 110.72, \"end\": 137.757, \"text\": \"在真正能夠請觀光署提供明確的樣態的時候我想要提高罰則我個人不會反對我想黨團也不會反對但問題就是從黨團協商提出這個需求到目前為止觀光署他還是沒有明確定義到底什麼叫做墊入國家容易到底是什麼叫損害國家利益所以在這個罰則上面我們主張還是維持所謂的現行條文在他釐清定義之前我想這個法令不宜有這個大幅的更動\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 110.72, \"end\": 110.94, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 110.94, \"end\": 111.12, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 111.12, \"end\": 111.401, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 111.401, \"end\": 111.921, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"觀\"}, {\"word\": \"光\", \"start\": 111.921, \"end\": 112.121, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 112.121, \"end\": 112.281, 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00:00:58,726\n什麼叫做墊入國家榮譽損害國家利益的樣態因為這包含在政黨協商的時候司法院那邊也講說他們現行的法令裡面沒有這個相關的法令來定義什麼叫墊入國家榮譽損害國家利益那在這樣的情況下面現在要把罰則提高從本來的3萬到15萬15萬到50萬提高到3萬到30萬30萬到150萬的時候我們就要問那到底什麼叫做損害國家利益墊入國家榮譽呢\n\n4\n00:01:05,729 --> 00:01:30,136\n因為這個法令從民國五十八年立法以來法則到目前為止只有處分過三案而且都在靜待其中包含了剛剛提到了剛剛陳書瑋我也提到旅行社私下來幫這個旅客來換錢這是一件另外一個是丟包旅客這是一件那另外一個是疫情期間防疫旅館的問題那是一件所以從五十八年以來到目前為止只有三件那這三件這三件我們\n\n5\n00:01:30,916 --> 00:01:50,200\n我們理性的我們冷靜的想想這三件到底跟電入國家榮譽損害國家利益有沒有直接關係因為我講真的你用電入國家榮譽損害國家利益來懲罰來行政處分我想應該是個很嚴重的事情才對如果他真的損害國家利益電入國家榮譽你只罰區區150萬我想也不足夠啦所以如果\n\n6\n00:01:50,720 --> 00:02:17,757\n在真正能夠請觀光署提供明確的樣態的時候我想要提高罰則我個人不會反對我想黨團也不會反對但問題就是從黨團協商提出這個需求到目前為止觀光署他還是沒有明確定義到底什麼叫做墊入國家容易到底是什麼叫損害國家利益所以在這個罰則上面我們主張還是維持所謂的現行條文在他釐清定義之前我想這個法令不宜有這個大幅的更動\n\n7\n00:02:18,317 --> 00:02:42,906\n尤其這是行政授權行政機關去裁罰旅行業業者那我想旅行業也反映過用這一條來罰他們基本上很難抗辯因為他不知道我要怎麼樣用什麼樣的主體來講說我沒有損害國家利益我沒有電入國家榮譽過去的幾次的三個罰則裡面大家也聽到我剛舉的三個例子這三個例子不管是用消保法也好金融法規也好或當初的疫情的特別條例也好\n\n8\n00:02:43,246 --> 00:03:03,260\n他都有本來就主管機關跟相關條例可以處分而不是一定要用到這個法令來處理所以在這個條文上面我們主張當然這個文字上面我們還是可以保留但是在罰則上我想還是依現行條文待這個觀光署提出明確的定義之後我們再來進行後續討論是不是要提高罰則以上敬請大院支持謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3100\t21141\t好 謝謝主席 各位委員今天討論的是官方的條文第53條那這個條文呢之前在委員會裡面在政長選項裡面還有上週的大體討論裡面我都討論過當然我們要講針對這個所謂的電入國家容許損害國家利益這當然很嚴重\n22182\t35835\t當然這個條文應該要保留所以我們講在過去的議程裡面都沒有主張過要刪除但是我們談的是什麼呢我們談的是說不管在委員會裡面還是在協商的時候我們都希望觀光署能夠明確的提供\n36736\t58726\t什麼叫做墊入國家榮譽損害國家利益的樣態因為這包含在政黨協商的時候司法院那邊也講說他們現行的法令裡面沒有這個相關的法令來定義什麼叫墊入國家榮譽損害國家利益那在這樣的情況下面現在要把罰則提高從本來的3萬到15萬15萬到50萬提高到3萬到30萬30萬到150萬的時候我們就要問那到底什麼叫做損害國家利益墊入國家榮譽呢\n65729\t90136\t因為這個法令從民國五十八年立法以來法則到目前為止只有處分過三案而且都在靜待其中包含了剛剛提到了剛剛陳書瑋我也提到旅行社私下來幫這個旅客來換錢這是一件另外一個是丟包旅客這是一件那另外一個是疫情期間防疫旅館的問題那是一件所以從五十八年以來到目前為止只有三件那這三件這三件我們\n90916\t110200\t我們理性的我們冷靜的想想這三件到底跟電入國家榮譽損害國家利益有沒有直接關係因為我講真的你用電入國家榮譽損害國家利益來懲罰來行政處分我想應該是個很嚴重的事情才對如果他真的損害國家利益電入國家榮譽你只罰區區150萬我想也不足夠啦所以如果\n110720\t137757\t在真正能夠請觀光署提供明確的樣態的時候我想要提高罰則我個人不會反對我想黨團也不會反對但問題就是從黨團協商提出這個需求到目前為止觀光署他還是沒有明確定義到底什麼叫做墊入國家容易到底是什麼叫損害國家利益所以在這個罰則上面我們主張還是維持所謂的現行條文在他釐清定義之前我想這個法令不宜有這個大幅的更動\n138317\t162906\t尤其這是行政授權行政機關去裁罰旅行業業者那我想旅行業也反映過用這一條來罰他們基本上很難抗辯因為他不知道我要怎麼樣用什麼樣的主體來講說我沒有損害國家利益我沒有電入國家榮譽過去的幾次的三個罰則裡面大家也聽到我剛舉的三個例子這三個例子不管是用消保法也好金融法規也好或當初的疫情的特別條例也好\n163246\t183260\t他都有本來就主管機關跟相關條例可以處分而不是一定要用到這個法令來處理所以在這個條文上面我們主張當然這個文字上面我們還是可以保留但是在罰則上我想還是依現行條文待這個觀光署提出明確的定義之後我們再來進行後續討論是不是要提高罰則以上 敬請大院支持 謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 各位委員今天討論的是官方的條文第53條那這個條文呢之前在委員會裡面在政長選項裡面還有上週的大體討論裡面我都討論過當然我們要講針對這個所謂的電入國家容許損害國家利益這當然很嚴重\n當然這個條文應該要保留所以我們講在過去的議程裡面都沒有主張過要刪除但是我們談的是什麼呢我們談的是說不管在委員會裡面還是在協商的時候我們都希望觀光署能夠明確的提供\n什麼叫做墊入國家榮譽損害國家利益的樣態因為這包含在政黨協商的時候司法院那邊也講說他們現行的法令裡面沒有這個相關的法令來定義什麼叫墊入國家榮譽損害國家利益那在這樣的情況下面現在要把罰則提高從本來的3萬到15萬15萬到50萬提高到3萬到30萬30萬到150萬的時候我們就要問那到底什麼叫做損害國家利益墊入國家榮譽呢\n因為這個法令從民國五十八年立法以來法則到目前為止只有處分過三案而且都在靜待其中包含了剛剛提到了剛剛陳書瑋我也提到旅行社私下來幫這個旅客來換錢這是一件另外一個是丟包旅客這是一件那另外一個是疫情期間防疫旅館的問題那是一件所以從五十八年以來到目前為止只有三件那這三件這三件我們\n我們理性的我們冷靜的想想這三件到底跟電入國家榮譽損害國家利益有沒有直接關係因為我講真的你用電入國家榮譽損害國家利益來懲罰來行政處分我想應該是個很嚴重的事情才對如果他真的損害國家利益電入國家榮譽你只罰區區150萬我想也不足夠啦所以如果\n在真正能夠請觀光署提供明確的樣態的時候我想要提高罰則我個人不會反對我想黨團也不會反對但問題就是從黨團協商提出這個需求到目前為止觀光署他還是沒有明確定義到底什麼叫做墊入國家容易到底是什麼叫損害國家利益所以在這個罰則上面我們主張還是維持所謂的現行條文在他釐清定義之前我想這個法令不宜有這個大幅的更動\n尤其這是行政授權行政機關去裁罰旅行業業者那我想旅行業也反映過用這一條來罰他們基本上很難抗辯因為他不知道我要怎麼樣用什麼樣的主體來講說我沒有損害國家利益我沒有電入國家榮譽過去的幾次的三個罰則裡面大家也聽到我剛舉的三個例子這三個例子不管是用消保法也好金融法規也好或當初的疫情的特別條例也好\n他都有本來就主管機關跟相關條例可以處分而不是一定要用到這個法令來處理所以在這個條文上面我們主張當然這個文字上面我們還是可以保留但是在罰則上我想還是依現行條文待這個觀光署提出明確的定義之後我們再來進行後續討論是不是要提高罰則以上 敬請大院支持 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02:42.906\n尤其這是行政授權行政機關去裁罰旅行業業者那我想旅行業也反映過用這一條來罰他們基本上很難抗辯因為他不知道我要怎麼樣用什麼樣的主體來講說我沒有損害國家利益我沒有電入國家榮譽過去的幾次的三個罰則裡面大家也聽到我剛舉的三個例子這三個例子不管是用消保法也好金融法規也好或當初的疫情的特別條例也好\n\n02:43.246 --> 03:03.260\n他都有本來就主管機關跟相關條例可以處分而不是一定要用到這個法令來處理所以在這個條文上面我們主張當然這個文字上面我們還是可以保留但是在罰則上我想還是依現行條文待這個觀光署提出明確的定義之後我們再來進行後續討論是不是要提高罰則以上敬請大院支持謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.1,"end":21.141,"text":"好 謝謝主席 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敬請大院支持 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":66,"blocks":[["黃委員健豪：（9時11分）謝謝主席，各位委員。今天討論的是發展觀光條例第五十三條，這個條文之前在委員會、在政黨協商、還有上週的大體討論裡面都有討論過，當然我們要講，針對所謂的玷辱國家榮譽、損害國家利益，這當然很嚴重，當然這個條文應該要保留，所以國民黨在過去的議程都沒有主張說要刪除，但是我們談的是什麼呢？我們談的是，不管是在委員會、還是在協商的時候，我們都希望觀光署能夠明確的提供什麼叫做「玷辱國家榮譽、損害國家利益」的樣態？因為包含政黨協商的時候，司法院也講說，現行的法令裡面沒有相關的法令，來定義什麼叫玷辱國家榮譽、損害國家利益。在這樣的情況下面，現在要把罰則提高，從本來的3萬到15萬、15萬到50萬，提高到3萬到30萬、30萬到150萬的時候，我們就要問，那到底什麼叫做「玷辱國家榮譽、損害國家利益」呢？","這個法令從民國58年立法以來，罰則到目前為止只有處分過3案，而且都在近代，其中包含剛剛陳素月委員也提到，旅行社私下來幫旅客換錢，這是1件；另外一個，是丟包旅客，這是一件；另外一個，是疫情期間防疫旅館的問題，那是一件。所以從58年以來到目前為止只有3件，這3件我們理性的、冷靜的想想，這3件到底跟玷辱國家榮譽、損害國家利益有沒有直接關係？因為我講真的，你用玷辱國家榮譽、損害國家利益來懲罰、來行政處分，我想應該是很嚴重的事情才對，如果他真的損害國家利益、玷辱國家榮譽，你只罰區區150萬，我想也不足夠啦！所以如果在真正能夠請觀光署提供明確的樣態的時候，我想要提高罰則，我個人不會反對、我想黨團也不會反對，但問題就是，從黨團協商提出這個需求，到目前為止，觀光署還是沒有明確的定義，到底什麼叫做玷辱國家榮譽？到底什麼叫損害國家利益？","所以在這個罰則上面，我們主張還是維持所謂的現行條文，在它釐清定義之前，我想這個法令不宜有大幅的更動，尤其這是授權行政機關去裁罰旅行業業者，我想旅行業也反映過用這一條來罰它們，基本上很難抗辯，因為它不知道要用什麼樣的主體來講說沒有損害國家利益、沒有玷辱國家榮譽。而過去幾次的3個罰則裡面，大家也聽到我剛剛舉的3個例子，這3個例子，不管是用消保法也好、金融法規也好，或當初疫情的特別條例也好，它本來就有主管機關跟相關條例可以處分，而不是一定要用到這個法令來處理。所以在這個條文上面我們還是可以保留，但是在罰則上，我想還是依現行條文，待觀光署提出明確的定義之後，我們再來進行後續討論是不是要提高罰則，以上敬請大院支持，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃健豪委員的發言。","報告院會，我們現在進行處理。","開始分發表決卡，按鈴7分鐘，現在開始。","（按鈴）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":58,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-16","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","林國成","陳素月","黃健豪","李坤城","游顥","林憶君","徐富癸","許宇甄","王美惠","徐巧芯"],"page_start":37,"meetingDate":["2025-01-07"],"gazette_id":"1141001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1141001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第16次會議紀錄","content":"討論事項\n發展觀光條例修正第四條、第五十四條、第五十五條、第五十五條之一、第五十七條及第七十條\n之二條文─ 完成三讀─","agenda_id":"1141001_00005"}}}