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{\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 240.227, \"end\": 240.327, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 240.327, \"end\": 240.347, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"商\", \"start\": 240.347, \"end\": 240.387, \"score\": 0.475}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 240.387, \"end\": 240.407, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 240.407, \"end\": 240.507, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 240.507, \"end\": 240.527, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 240.527, \"end\": 240.687, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 240.687, \"end\": 240.707, \"score\": 0.056}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}]}, {\"start\": 243.369, \"end\": 256.994, \"text\": \"表決的數字也不能出問題等一下我會跟你來討論那另外還有就是最近美國聯邦政府又因為預算的審查問題可能出現停擺那美國聯邦政府自1976年來國會實施預算審核流程之後\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 243.369, \"end\": 243.909, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 243.909, \"end\": 244.57, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": 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0.658}, {\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 248.831, \"end\": 249.011, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 249.011, \"end\": 249.271, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 249.271, \"end\": 249.371, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 249.371, \"end\": 249.491, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 249.491, \"end\": 249.992, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 249.992, \"end\": 250.152, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"近\", \"start\": 250.152, \"end\": 250.552, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 250.552, \"end\": 251.092, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"聯\"}, {\"word\": \"邦\", \"start\": 251.092, \"end\": 251.312, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 251.312, \"end\": 251.512, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 251.512, \"end\": 251.652, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"又\", \"start\": 251.652, \"end\": 251.772, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 251.772, \"end\": 252.252, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 252.252, \"end\": 252.432, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 252.432, \"end\": 252.772, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 252.772, \"end\": 253.333, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 253.333, \"end\": 253.473, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 253.473, \"end\": 253.693, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 253.693, \"end\": 254.093, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"停\", \"start\": 254.093, \"end\": 254.873, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"擺\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 254.873, \"end\": 255.013, \"score\": 0.689}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 255.013, \"end\": 255.433, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"聯\"}, {\"word\": \"邦\", \"start\": 255.433, \"end\": 255.614, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 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\"end\": 285.535, \"text\": \"請您看一下已經出現23次至少持續一天的資金缺口造成聯邦政府停擺那其中最長的一次是在川普第一任的時候是從2018年12月21號持續到2019年1月25號逐逐停擺了三四天那他在第一任任內因為停擺了三次所以總共停擺了39天其中民主黨執政時期停擺了9次共和黨執政時期停擺了14次\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 260.756, \"end\": 260.896, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 260.896, \"end\": 261.036, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 261.036, \"end\": 261.076, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 261.076, \"end\": 261.216, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 261.216, \"end\": 261.416, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 261.416, \"end\": 262.257, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 262.257, \"end\": 262.657, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 262.657, \"end\": 262.797, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 262.797, \"end\": 263.058, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 263.058, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"和\", \"start\": 284.294, \"end\": 284.915, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 284.915, \"end\": 285.095, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 285.095, \"end\": 285.135, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"停\", \"start\": 285.135, \"end\": 285.275, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"擺\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 285.275, \"end\": 285.515, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 285.515, \"end\": 285.535, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 287.657, \"end\": 300.594, \"text\": \"那歷經停擺的美國總統有福特、卡特、雷根、老布希、柯林頓、歐巴馬跟川普請問院長知不知道美國執政黨最後怎麼結束預算沒通過的停擺狀態嗎委員希望我們停擺幾天\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 287.657, \"end\": 288.218, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"歷\"}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"停\", \"start\": 288.218, \"end\": 288.719, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"擺\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 288.719, \"end\": 288.819, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 785.114, \"end\": 785.214, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 785.214, \"end\": 785.234, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 785.234, \"end\": 785.254, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 785.254, \"end\": 785.314, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 785.314, \"end\": 785.434, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 785.434, \"end\": 785.474, \"score\": 0.485}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"元\", \"start\": 785.474, \"end\": 785.654, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 785.654, \"end\": 785.794, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"衛\"}, {\"word\": \"福\", \"start\": 785.794, \"end\": 785.874, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 785.874, \"end\": 786.115, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 786.115, \"end\": 786.235, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": 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\"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"斷\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 815.936, \"end\": 816.016, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 816.016, \"end\": 816.216, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 816.216, \"end\": 816.376, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"群\", \"start\": 816.376, \"end\": 816.697, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"網\"}, {\"word\": \"路\", \"start\": 816.697, \"end\": 817.698, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"賴\"}, {\"word\": \"帳\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 817.698, \"end\": 818.258, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"謠\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 818.258, \"end\": 818.578, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 818.578, \"end\": 819.179, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 819.179, \"end\": 819.339, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 819.339, \"end\": 819.679, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", 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{\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 830.63, \"end\": 831.35, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 831.35, \"end\": 831.671, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 831.671, \"end\": 831.831, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 831.831, \"end\": 831.971, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"困\", \"start\": 831.971, \"end\": 832.151, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 832.151, \"end\": 832.311, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 832.311, \"end\": 832.852, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 832.852, \"end\": 832.992, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 832.992, \"end\": 833.172, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 833.172, \"end\": 833.292, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 833.292, \"end\": 833.392, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 833.392, \"end\": 833.793, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 833.793, \"end\": 833.813, \"score\": 0.989}]}, {\"start\": 834.133, \"end\": 843.318, \"text\": \"那每個總統遇到預算的問題都知道要跟在野黨溝通我們在維護的是國軍我們在保障的是國軍我們沒有網軍我們沒有網軍那你要看一下我們新增的預算到底展現在哪裡去啊你老是不再看到就是我們新增的預算就拿一個數字來說明\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 834.133, \"end\": 834.313, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 834.313, \"end\": 834.453, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"遇\", \"start\": 834.453, \"end\": 834.713, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 834.713, \"end\": 834.953, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 834.953, \"end\": 835.354, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 835.354, \"end\": 835.434, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 835.434, \"end\": 835.554, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 835.554, \"end\": 835.634, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 835.634, \"end\": 835.774, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 835.774, \"end\": 835.854, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 835.854, \"end\": 835.934, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 835.934, \"end\": 836.074, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"野\", \"start\": 836.074, \"end\": 836.214, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"溝\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 836.214, \"end\": 836.294, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 836.294, \"end\": 836.474, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 836.474, \"end\": 836.714, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"維\"}, {\"word\": \"護\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 836.714, \"end\": 836.835, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 836.835, \"end\": 837.035, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"軍\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 837.035, \"end\": 837.195, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 837.195, 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\"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 841.037, \"end\": 841.157, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 841.157, \"end\": 841.197, \"score\": 0.497}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 841.197, \"end\": 841.257, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 841.257, \"end\": 841.437, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 841.437, \"end\": 841.497, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"老\", \"start\": 841.497, \"end\": 841.517, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 841.517, \"end\": 841.537, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 841.537, \"end\": 841.557, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 841.557, \"end\": 841.577, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 841.577, \"end\": 841.617, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 841.617, \"end\": 841.817, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 841.817, \"end\": 842.057, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 842.057, \"end\": 842.298, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 842.298, \"end\": 842.418, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 842.418, \"end\": 842.538, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 842.538, \"end\": 842.658, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 842.658, \"end\": 842.798, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 842.798, \"end\": 842.978, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 842.978, \"end\": 843.058, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"拿\", \"start\": 843.058, \"end\": 843.138, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 843.138, \"end\": 843.198, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 843.198, \"end\": 843.298, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 843.298, \"end\": 843.318, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 861.946, \"end\": 869.906, \"text\": \"請問一下國防部的預算有沒有增加416億元衛福部的預算有沒有比去年增加318億認為我們國防預算不需增加是嗎\", 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00:00:36,358\n薛恩好院長好院長我想請教您蔡英文前總統她在2012年的11月22號在自己的臉書上說我覺得現在的政府機關所有的預算都要減20%一定要大砍才能帶動結構性的轉變\n\n3\n00:00:38,180 --> 00:01:05,135\n而大砍之後拿出10%來重新分配給最需要的那因為我當過部會首長所以我知道砍掉10%對政府或部會來說都會活得好好的那當時陳其邁市長也同意蔡英文總統的說法因此也轉貼了他這個貼文那所以請問院長114年度我們的立法院的中央所通過的中央政府的總預算三減的幅度有超過10%嗎\n\n4\n00:01:06,896 --> 00:01:34,679\n雖然我沒有數字應該是沒有沒有超過10%是那請問蔡英文陳其邁都說砍掉10%政府也可以過得好好那為什麼現在賴政府的預算被刪減的幅度低於10%那為什麼整個部會大家都好像是世界末日然後到處在造謠到處在說這個現在自然難行過不下去請問一下這個是院長您的意思還是賴清德總統的意思\n\n5\n00:01:35,321 --> 00:01:35,928\n行政院編列的預算\n\n6\n00:01:37,720 --> 00:02:03,917\n據理跟立法院說明那如果中間發生跟行政編列預算不符合的我們來說明當然是依照我們編列預算原來的想法所以我建議院長是不是可以去跟蔡英文前總統或陳其邁市長請教一下怎麼才能讓賴政府各部會活下去他們可以做得到我相信你們應該也做得到如果委員會看看這張單子現在我想各部會都在造謠嘛\n\n7\n00:02:06,098 --> 00:02:23,827\n1%左右等一下我會跟您探討這個問題現在是6.6%院長我等一下會跟您探討這個問題待會你就會看到所以現在各部會一直在招搖哭窮所以我覺得一定有一方在說謊所以如果院長您是對的代表是不是蔡英文前總統就是在說謊\n\n8\n00:02:25,468 --> 00:02:40,836\n我們可以看到行政院的附議說明中有提到預算的提出審議跟執行必須要行政權跟立法權的協力分工請問院長立法權可不可以透過預算進行監督來制衡行政權\n\n9\n00:02:42,691 --> 00:03:03,305\n立法權可以監督行政權的方式很多是可不可以透過審議預算預算進行監督要監督同時也要提高國家的行政效率跟整體發展所以院長也同意本來我們立法權就是可以透過法案透過預算的監督來制衡行政權這本來就是權力分立的一個原則那請問一下\n\n10\n00:03:04,085 --> 00:03:20,675\n院長您在行政院的附議說明中有提到114年度審議的結果與這個預算審議的合理的監督範圍請問院長什麼叫合理的監督範圍剛剛有提到有七個部會包括院\n\n11\n00:03:21,530 --> 00:03:34,446\n被刪減之後的刪減數超過原編的預算數所以院長的意思就是說以後我們立法院在寫預算的時候一定要先跟行政院溝通你們通過之後你們同意之後我們才能夠刪減預算嗎行政院如果編100塊你不能刪120塊\n\n12\n00:03:37,069 --> 00:04:00,707\n這個部分我相信一定可以在做過草野協商的時候來做一些溝通那為什麼當時草野協商沒辦法溝通我相信院長很清楚就是當時我們民進黨的這個總召柯建民總召他其實一直都在背個我們預算的一個草野協商所以導致說有一些的有一些這樣的提案我們沒有辦法去做一個溝通我想這個才是真正的協商的過程就算有問題\n\n13\n00:04:03,369 --> 00:04:16,994\n表決的數字也不能出問題等一下我會跟你來討論那另外還有就是最近美國聯邦政府又因為預算的審查問題可能出現停擺那美國聯邦政府自1976年來國會實施預算審核流程之後\n\n14\n00:04:20,756 --> 00:04:45,535\n請您看一下已經出現23次至少持續一天的資金缺口造成聯邦政府停擺那其中最長的一次是在川普第一任的時候是從2018年12月21號持續到2019年1月25號逐逐停擺了三四天那他在第一任任內因為停擺了三次所以總共停擺了39天其中民主黨執政時期停擺了9次共和黨執政時期停擺了14次\n\n15\n00:04:47,657 --> 00:05:00,594\n那歷經停擺的美國總統有福特、卡特、雷根、老布希、柯林頓、歐巴馬跟川普請問院長知不知道美國執政黨最後怎麼結束預算沒通過的停擺狀態嗎委員希望我們停擺幾天\n\n16\n00:05:03,986 --> 00:05:15,570\n我是問您知不知道他結束停擺的狀態您知道是為什麼嗎當然是草野協商他們就是加強與在野黨的溝通加強與在野黨的溝通才是真正解決問題的方法請問院長經過美國經歷這麼多次的停擺執政黨有因此而發起大罷免國會的議員嗎\n\n17\n00:05:31,595 --> 00:05:41,461\n憲法設計不同憲法設計不同國情不同所以我們的憲政設計是有說要大罷免我們所有的委員嗎選舉罷免創始副主席所以我想這個憲法設計問題並不代表我們中華民國的政府可以這樣做我沒有去講大罷免啊\n\n18\n00:05:56,090 --> 00:06:12,578\n那現在罷免35席的這個我們國民黨的委員不是行政院不是總統去發動這樣的事情那這樣如果沒有默許的話怎麼可能有這樣的一個狀況發生我想這個部分不是我們今天討論的重點但是我必須要提出來那我也想請教一下院長韓國瑜院長也曾經跟您說過是不是不要提複議要加強溝通結果你們有這樣做嗎韓院長跟我講了很多話\n\n19\n00:06:24,877 --> 00:06:35,517\n很多的條件,最後不履行的不是都在我這只是其中最後的狀況,之前談的條件沒有履行的不是在我\n\n20\n00:06:37,046 --> 00:07:02,861\n請問一下韓國瑜院長有跟您說過是不是不要提復議是不是要加強溝通嗎那就是大家要加強溝通我想韓國瑜院長主要是這樣的意思但是我們現在看到的行政院現在好像感覺是在為大惡霸在添柴火所以堅持要提出復議所以我覺得這個部分請院長真的要好好的討論一下如果復議案通過的話\n\n21\n00:07:03,921 --> 00:07:30,337\n對社會的觀感是不一樣的我也誠心希望如此我們希望的是我想這個不要大惡霸才是社會最期待的喔那我可以跟院長再探討一下您看一下這個表格這個是立法院通過114年度中央政府總預算的經費高達兩兆9248億比113年度增加了729億那如果扣除掉補助給台電的1000億其實三減的比例也只有3.55%\n\n22\n00:07:31,798 --> 00:07:51,239\n也遠低於蔡英文前總統說的10%結果各部會紛紛跳出來開記者會然後還製作假圖片造謠欺騙國人這是中華民國史上的第一招而且院長您在行政院副議案說明也有提到114年度稅出預算總三件數是過去\n\n23\n00:07:51,920 --> 00:08:15,644\n平均的6倍喔那逾越了預算審議的合理監督範圍所以請問院長喔立法院審議預算需要先徵求行政院的同意嗎過去8年是不是都把我們立法院當作行政院的立法局了而且你知不知道在114年度我們在做這個預算的黨團協商的時候跟過去幾年最大的差異是什麼\n\n24\n00:08:17,145 --> 00:08:23,101\n我們今年的預算跟過去幾年最大的差異在做政黨黨團協商的時候最大的差異是什麼這是\n\n25\n00:08:25,106 --> 00:08:50,387\n朝野內部大院內部的協商或是院長主持的協商院長主持的協商最大的差異我要告訴院長就是執政黨的立法院的黨團總召柯建民帶頭的來杯葛預算的協商的一個進行所以導致部分的協商沒有辦法進行有效的溝通這在過去是沒有發生過的我是不能這樣講如果最大的差異就是組織協商的人不同\n\n26\n00:08:51,226 --> 00:09:11,479\n主持協商的是院長但是杯葛整個浴室進行的是柯建民總召我相信我們把過去的協商的院長協商的袋子放出來我覺得大家都應該眼光顯然都知道是為什麼的原因那我們再次來看一下我們看一下這個\n\n27\n00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:40,259\n院長你再看一下剛剛講的是我們這個刪減的預算那剛剛我聽到很多民進黨的委員在講說凍結的預算1381億是史上最高那我做了一個表格請各位看一下我統計了凍結比例超過5%的有8次其中3次是凍結超過10%在扁政府馬政府時代各位可以看到即使在扁政府時代94年95年的時候\n\n28\n00:09:40,859 --> 00:09:44,784\n最初的預算數走一兆6000多億可是凍結的比例是2078億跟2130億還有在馬政府時代的時候在102年的時候最初的預算是一兆9446億那凍結的比例是2074億都遠遠的超過了\n\n29\n00:10:01,563 --> 00:10:20,776\n這一次我們凍結了1381億所以說當時扁政府跟馬政府也沒有像賴政府這樣怒氣衝天也沒有這樣不尊重國會也沒有提出復議那請問一下院長為什麼不願意去找一下陳水扁前總統請議找一下蔡英文前總統請議他們都認為既然預算可以砍20%都能夠運行當然應該知道怎麼解決喔\n\n30\n00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:51,018\n那我想其實人民已經看不慣民進黨過去八年在立法院的阿拔的行為而立法院儼然成為行政院的立法局所以國人在2024年1月13號已經投票決定民進黨只有在立法院只有51席成為少數黨那請問一下院長喔國民黨一線法替人民嚴格監督預算有什麼問題嗎\n\n31\n00:10:53,783 --> 00:10:54,564\n你一直提到治愛難行喔\n\n32\n00:11:13,344 --> 00:11:40,614\n那其實您有沒有仔細的回想杯葛協商預算協商的其實是柯建民總召所以您有沒有跟柯建民總召進行溝通請他不要再來杯葛預算若是沒有溝通的話要繼續的我行我素不管是今天的這個未來的追加減或者是說我們的115年的預算的審議如果柯建民總召還是要這樣杯葛預算的協商的話根本就不可能能夠進行的查詢我無法在這裡智慧\n\n33\n00:11:41,755 --> 00:11:49,625\n大院草野協商的內容但是就這麼多的部會全數被刪除的項目這麼多而且不能留用\n\n34\n00:11:51,453 --> 00:12:06,762\n而且這是通山的表決的時候這怎麼協商呢?我想有什麼樣的問題本來就是要溝通協商絕對沒有做不到的事情那我想在野黨監督執政黨本來就是天經地義的事情所以也是中華的一個憲法賦予我們的權利而且要經過充分的討論剛剛有提到美國聯邦政府發生那麼多次停擺的狀況他們也沒有到處去造謠到處去欺騙而是加強溝通\n\n35\n00:12:16,448 --> 00:12:21,229\n落上國際新聞了美國政府關門都落上國際新聞了還沒有所以其實院長您在去年520上任的時候您提出您是行動創新AI內閣其實國人都充滿期待但是為什麼會現在行動創新內閣變成摯愛男性內閣\n\n36\n00:12:36,813 --> 00:12:55,027\nAI內閣變成富裕內閣其實我們都很希望大家能夠好好把這個國家治理好可是如果有這麼多的自愛難行的問題應該是要加強溝通而不是用造謠的方式我們實際的理念就展現在我們的預算編列上面而這種不合理的針對特定機關到處的造謠到處各部會去造謠甚至參加任何的活動都可以聽到\n\n37\n00:13:00,971 --> 00:13:07,496\n最後我要跟這個院長再請教一下您可以看一下我們這個表就是國防部在114年度的預算比113年度增加416億元那衛福部在114年度比113年度增加了318億元\n\n38\n00:13:31,131 --> 00:13:53,813\n而我們現在看到的是民進黨透過網軍不斷的在社群網路賴帳號造謠國民黨民眾黨大三國防預算衛福部的預算那所以你們這樣的行為是因為預算受到嚴格監督之後才惱羞成怒嗎如果行政院以這樣子的一個態度要來解決現在預算的困局的話一定是沒有辦法\n\n39\n00:13:54,133 --> 00:14:03,318\n那每個總統遇到預算的問題都知道要跟在野黨溝通我們在維護的是國軍我們在保障的是國軍我們沒有網軍我們沒有網軍那你要看一下我們新增的預算到底展現在哪裡去啊你老是不再看到就是我們新增的預算就拿一個數字來說明\n\n40\n00:14:21,946 --> 00:14:29,906\n請問一下國防部的預算有沒有增加416億元衛福部的預算有沒有比去年增加318億認為我們國防預算不需增加是嗎\n\n41\n00:14:31,019 --> 00:14:59,277\n都需要增加所以我說有增加不是嗎那為什麼要造謠說三減呢每一項都受說明了我想其實喔軍事裝備這三減都50億我們遇到問題要去解決我相信卓院長您也是一個解決問題的人做實事的人所以您應該要做的是要怎麼去解決這樣的困局就是加強跟在野黨的溝通而不是到處的我們還甚至看到連看板都出來了因為國民兩黨三運算所以什麼長照經費不能\n\n42\n00:15:01,038 --> 00:15:11,745\n我要加強說明光是說中央政府今年比去年多2,806億我說了不下100次委員都沒有聽進去我再說一次今年的預算比去年多了2,806億我說了不下100次委員你聽進去了沒有我剛剛也講比去年多了729億\n\n43\n00:15:33,578 --> 00:15:35,304\n剛剛我們巡查時間結束\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7560\t9003\t謝謝主席我們請卓院長請卓院長備詢\n20498\t36358\t薛恩好院長好院長我想請教您蔡英文前總統她在2012年的11月22號在自己的臉書上說我覺得現在的政府機關所有的預算都要減20%一定要大砍才能帶動結構性的轉變\n38180\t65135\t而大砍之後拿出10%來重新分配給最需要的那因為我當過部會首長所以我知道砍掉10%對政府或部會來說都會活得好好的那當時陳其邁市長也同意蔡英文總統的說法因此也轉貼了他這個貼文那所以請問院長114年度我們的立法院的中央所通過的中央政府的總預算三減的幅度有超過10%嗎\n66896\t94679\t雖然我沒有數字應該是沒有沒有超過10%是那請問蔡英文陳其邁都說砍掉10%政府也可以過得好好那為什麼現在賴政府的預算被刪減的幅度低於10%那為什麼整個部會大家都好像是世界末日然後到處在造謠到處在說這個現在自然難行過不下去請問一下這個是院長您的意思還是賴清德總統的意思\n95321\t95928\t行政院編列的預算\n97720\t123917\t據理跟立法院說明那如果中間發生跟行政編列預算不符合的我們來說明當然是依照我們編列預算原來的想法所以我建議院長是不是可以去跟蔡英文前總統或陳其邁市長請教一下怎麼才能讓賴政府各部會活下去他們可以做得到我相信你們應該也做得到如果委員會看看這張單子現在我想各部會都在造謠嘛\n126098\t143827\t1%左右等一下我會跟您探討這個問題現在是6.6%院長我等一下會跟您探討這個問題待會你就會看到所以現在各部會一直在招搖哭窮所以我覺得一定有一方在說謊所以如果院長您是對的代表是不是蔡英文前總統就是在說謊\n145468\t160836\t我們可以看到行政院的附議說明中有提到預算的提出審議跟執行必須要行政權跟立法權的協力分工請問院長立法權可不可以透過預算進行監督來制衡行政權\n162691\t183305\t立法權可以監督行政權的方式很多是可不可以透過審議預算預算進行監督要監督同時也要提高國家的行政效率跟整體發展所以院長也同意本來我們立法權就是可以透過法案透過預算的監督來制衡行政權這本來就是權力分立的一個原則那請問一下\n184085\t200675\t院長您在行政院的附議說明中有提到114年度審議的結果與這個預算審議的合理的監督範圍請問院長什麼叫合理的監督範圍剛剛有提到有七個部會包括院\n201530\t214446\t被刪減之後的刪減數超過原編的預算數所以院長的意思就是說以後我們立法院在寫預算的時候一定要先跟行政院溝通你們通過之後你們同意之後我們才能夠刪減預算嗎行政院如果編100塊你不能刪120塊\n217069\t240707\t這個部分我相信一定可以在做過草野協商的時候來做一些溝通那為什麼當時草野協商沒辦法溝通我相信院長很清楚就是當時我們民進黨的這個總召柯建民總召他其實一直都在背個我們預算的一個草野協商所以導致說有一些的有一些這樣的提案我們沒有辦法去做一個溝通我想這個才是真正的協商的過程就算有問題\n243369\t256994\t表決的數字也不能出問題等一下我會跟你來討論那另外還有就是最近美國聯邦政府又因為預算的審查問題可能出現停擺那美國聯邦政府自1976年來國會實施預算審核流程之後\n260756\t285535\t請您看一下已經出現23次至少持續一天的資金缺口造成聯邦政府停擺那其中最長的一次是在川普第一任的時候是從2018年12月21號持續到2019年1月25號逐逐停擺了三四天那他在第一任任內因為停擺了三次所以總共停擺了39天其中民主黨執政時期停擺了9次共和黨執政時期停擺了14次\n287657\t300594\t那歷經停擺的美國總統有福特、卡特、雷根、老布希、柯林頓、歐巴馬跟川普請問院長知不知道美國執政黨最後怎麼結束預算沒通過的停擺狀態嗎委員希望我們停擺幾天\n303986\t315570\t我是問您知不知道他結束停擺的狀態 您知道是為什麼嗎當然是草野協商他們就是加強與在野黨的溝通加強與在野黨的溝通才是真正解決問題的方法請問院長 經過美國經歷這麼多次的停擺執政黨有因此而發起大罷免國會的議員嗎\n331595\t341461\t憲法設計不同憲法設計不同國情不同所以我們的憲政設計是有說要大罷免我們所有的委員嗎選舉罷免創始副主席所以我想這個憲法設計問題並不代表我們中華民國的政府可以這樣做我沒有去講大罷免啊\n356090\t372578\t那現在罷免35席的這個我們國民黨的委員不是行政院不是總統去發動這樣的事情那這樣如果沒有默許的話怎麼可能有這樣的一個狀況發生我想這個部分不是我們今天討論的重點但是我必須要提出來那我也想請教一下院長韓國瑜院長也曾經跟您說過是不是不要提複議要加強溝通結果你們有這樣做嗎韓院長跟我講了很多話\n384877\t395517\t很多的條件,最後不履行的不是都在我這只是其中最後的狀況,之前談的條件沒有履行的不是在我\n397046\t422861\t請問一下韓國瑜院長有跟您說過是不是不要提復議是不是要加強溝通嗎那就是大家要加強溝通我想韓國瑜院長主要是這樣的意思但是我們現在看到的行政院現在好像感覺是在為大惡霸在添柴火所以堅持要提出復議所以我覺得這個部分請院長真的要好好的討論一下如果復議案通過的話\n423921\t450337\t對社會的觀感是不一樣的我也誠心希望如此我們希望的是我想這個不要大惡霸才是社會最期待的喔那我可以跟院長再探討一下您看一下這個表格這個是立法院通過114年度中央政府總預算的經費高達兩兆9248億比113年度增加了729億那如果扣除掉補助給台電的1000億其實三減的比例也只有3.55%\n451798\t471239\t也遠低於蔡英文前總統說的10%結果各部會紛紛跳出來開記者會然後還製作假圖片造謠欺騙國人這是中華民國史上的第一招而且院長您在行政院副議案說明也有提到114年度稅出預算總三件數是過去\n471920\t495644\t平均的6倍喔那逾越了預算審議的合理監督範圍所以請問院長喔立法院審議預算需要先徵求行政院的同意嗎過去8年是不是都把我們立法院當作行政院的立法局了而且你知不知道在114年度我們在做這個預算的黨團協商的時候跟過去幾年最大的差異是什麼\n497145\t503101\t我們今年的預算跟過去幾年最大的差異在做政黨黨團協商的時候最大的差異是什麼這是\n505106\t530387\t朝野內部大院內部的協商或是院長主持的協商院長主持的協商最大的差異我要告訴院長就是執政黨的立法院的黨團總召柯建民帶頭的來杯葛預算的協商的一個進行所以導致部分的協商沒有辦法進行有效的溝通這在過去是沒有發生過的我是不能這樣講如果最大的差異就是組織協商的人不同\n531226\t551479\t主持協商的是院長 但是杯葛整個浴室進行的是柯建民總召我相信我們把過去的協商的院長 協商的袋子放出來我覺得大家都應該眼光顯然都知道是為什麼的原因那我們再次來看一下 我們看一下這個\n553800\t580259\t院長你再看一下剛剛講的是我們這個刪減的預算那剛剛我聽到很多民進黨的委員在講說凍結的預算1381億是史上最高那我做了一個表格請各位看一下我統計了凍結比例超過5%的有8次其中3次是凍結超過10%在扁政府馬政府時代各位可以看到即使在扁政府時代94年95年的時候\n580859\t584784\t最初的預算數走一兆6000多億可是凍結的比例是2078億跟2130億還有在馬政府時代的時候在102年的時候最初的預算是一兆9446億那凍結的比例是2074億都遠遠的超過了\n601563\t620776\t這一次我們凍結了1381億所以說當時扁政府跟馬政府也沒有像賴政府這樣怒氣衝天也沒有這樣不尊重國會也沒有提出復議那請問一下院長為什麼不願意去找一下陳水扁前總統請議找一下蔡英文前總統請議他們都認為既然預算可以砍20%都能夠運行當然應該知道怎麼解決喔\n626720\t651018\t那我想其實人民已經看不慣民進黨過去八年在立法院的阿拔的行為而立法院儼然成為行政院的立法局所以國人在2024年1月13號已經投票決定民進黨只有在立法院只有51席成為少數黨那請問一下院長喔國民黨一線法替人民嚴格監督預算有什麼問題嗎\n653783\t654564\t你一直提到治愛難行喔\n673344\t700614\t那其實您有沒有仔細的回想杯葛協商預算協商的其實是柯建民總召所以您有沒有跟柯建民總召進行溝通請他不要再來杯葛預算若是沒有溝通的話要繼續的我行我素不管是今天的這個未來的追加減或者是說我們的115年的預算的審議如果柯建民總召還是要這樣杯葛預算的協商的話根本就不可能能夠進行的查詢我無法在這裡智慧\n701755\t709625\t大院草野協商的內容但是就這麼多的部會全數被刪除的項目這麼多而且不能留用\n711453\t726762\t而且這是通山的表決的時候這怎麼協商呢?我想有什麼樣的問題本來就是要溝通協商絕對沒有做不到的事情那我想在野黨監督執政黨本來就是天經地義的事情所以也是中華的一個憲法賦予我們的權利而且要經過充分的討論剛剛有提到美國聯邦政府發生那麼多次停擺的狀況他們也沒有到處去造謠到處去欺騙而是加強溝通\n736448\t741229\t落上國際新聞了美國政府關門都落上國際新聞了還沒有所以其實院長您在去年520上任的時候您提出您是行動創新AI內閣其實國人都充滿期待但是為什麼會現在行動創新內閣變成摯愛男性內閣\n756813\t775027\tAI內閣變成富裕內閣其實我們都很希望大家能夠好好把這個國家治理好可是如果有這麼多的自愛難行的問題應該是要加強溝通而不是用造謠的方式我們實際的理念就展現在我們的預算編列上面而這種不合理的針對特定機關到處的造謠到處各部會去造謠甚至參加任何的活動都可以聽到\n780971\t787496\t最後我要跟這個院長再請教一下您可以看一下我們這個表就是國防部在114年度的預算比113年度增加416億元那衛福部在114年度比113年度增加了318億元\n811131\t833813\t而我們現在看到的是民進黨透過網軍不斷的在社群網路賴帳號造謠國民黨民眾黨大三國防預算衛福部的預算那所以你們這樣的行為是因為預算受到嚴格監督之後才惱羞成怒嗎如果行政院以這樣子的一個態度要來解決現在預算的困局的話一定是沒有辦法\n834133\t843318\t那每個總統遇到預算的問題都知道要跟在野黨溝通我們在維護的是國軍我們在保障的是國軍我們沒有網軍我們沒有網軍那你要看一下我們新增的預算到底展現在哪裡去啊你老是不再看到就是我們新增的預算就拿一個數字來說明\n861946\t869906\t請問一下國防部的預算有沒有增加416億元衛福部的預算有沒有比去年增加318億認為我們國防預算不需增加是嗎\n871019\t899277\t都需要增加所以我說有增加不是嗎那為什麼要造謠說三減呢每一項都受說明了我想其實喔軍事裝備這三減都50億我們遇到問題要去解決我相信卓院長您也是一個解決問題的人做實事的人所以您應該要做的是要怎麼去解決這樣的困局就是加強跟在野黨的溝通而不是到處的我們還甚至看到連看板都出來了因為國民兩黨三運算所以什麼長照經費不能\n901038\t911745\t我要加強說明 光是說中央政府今年比去年多2,806億我說了不下100次 委員都沒有聽進去我再說一次 今年的預算比去年多了2,806億我說了不下100次 委員你聽進去了沒有我剛剛也講比去年多了729億\n933578\t935304\t剛剛我們巡查時間結束\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們請卓院長請卓院長備詢\n薛恩好院長好院長我想請教您蔡英文前總統她在2012年的11月22號在自己的臉書上說我覺得現在的政府機關所有的預算都要減20%一定要大砍才能帶動結構性的轉變\n而大砍之後拿出10%來重新分配給最需要的那因為我當過部會首長所以我知道砍掉10%對政府或部會來說都會活得好好的那當時陳其邁市長也同意蔡英文總統的說法因此也轉貼了他這個貼文那所以請問院長114年度我們的立法院的中央所通過的中央政府的總預算三減的幅度有超過10%嗎\n雖然我沒有數字應該是沒有沒有超過10%是那請問蔡英文陳其邁都說砍掉10%政府也可以過得好好那為什麼現在賴政府的預算被刪減的幅度低於10%那為什麼整個部會大家都好像是世界末日然後到處在造謠到處在說這個現在自然難行過不下去請問一下這個是院長您的意思還是賴清德總統的意思\n行政院編列的預算\n據理跟立法院說明那如果中間發生跟行政編列預算不符合的我們來說明當然是依照我們編列預算原來的想法所以我建議院長是不是可以去跟蔡英文前總統或陳其邁市長請教一下怎麼才能讓賴政府各部會活下去他們可以做得到我相信你們應該也做得到如果委員會看看這張單子現在我想各部會都在造謠嘛\n1%左右等一下我會跟您探討這個問題現在是6.6%院長我等一下會跟您探討這個問題待會你就會看到所以現在各部會一直在招搖哭窮所以我覺得一定有一方在說謊所以如果院長您是對的代表是不是蔡英文前總統就是在說謊\n我們可以看到行政院的附議說明中有提到預算的提出審議跟執行必須要行政權跟立法權的協力分工請問院長立法權可不可以透過預算進行監督來制衡行政權\n立法權可以監督行政權的方式很多是可不可以透過審議預算預算進行監督要監督同時也要提高國家的行政效率跟整體發展所以院長也同意本來我們立法權就是可以透過法案透過預算的監督來制衡行政權這本來就是權力分立的一個原則那請問一下\n院長您在行政院的附議說明中有提到114年度審議的結果與這個預算審議的合理的監督範圍請問院長什麼叫合理的監督範圍剛剛有提到有七個部會包括院\n被刪減之後的刪減數超過原編的預算數所以院長的意思就是說以後我們立法院在寫預算的時候一定要先跟行政院溝通你們通過之後你們同意之後我們才能夠刪減預算嗎行政院如果編100塊你不能刪120塊\n這個部分我相信一定可以在做過草野協商的時候來做一些溝通那為什麼當時草野協商沒辦法溝通我相信院長很清楚就是當時我們民進黨的這個總召柯建民總召他其實一直都在背個我們預算的一個草野協商所以導致說有一些的有一些這樣的提案我們沒有辦法去做一個溝通我想這個才是真正的協商的過程就算有問題\n表決的數字也不能出問題等一下我會跟你來討論那另外還有就是最近美國聯邦政府又因為預算的審查問題可能出現停擺那美國聯邦政府自1976年來國會實施預算審核流程之後\n請您看一下已經出現23次至少持續一天的資金缺口造成聯邦政府停擺那其中最長的一次是在川普第一任的時候是從2018年12月21號持續到2019年1月25號逐逐停擺了三四天那他在第一任任內因為停擺了三次所以總共停擺了39天其中民主黨執政時期停擺了9次共和黨執政時期停擺了14次\n那歷經停擺的美國總統有福特、卡特、雷根、老布希、柯林頓、歐巴馬跟川普請問院長知不知道美國執政黨最後怎麼結束預算沒通過的停擺狀態嗎委員希望我們停擺幾天\n我是問您知不知道他結束停擺的狀態 您知道是為什麼嗎當然是草野協商他們就是加強與在野黨的溝通加強與在野黨的溝通才是真正解決問題的方法請問院長 經過美國經歷這麼多次的停擺執政黨有因此而發起大罷免國會的議員嗎\n憲法設計不同憲法設計不同國情不同所以我們的憲政設計是有說要大罷免我們所有的委員嗎選舉罷免創始副主席所以我想這個憲法設計問題並不代表我們中華民國的政府可以這樣做我沒有去講大罷免啊\n那現在罷免35席的這個我們國民黨的委員不是行政院不是總統去發動這樣的事情那這樣如果沒有默許的話怎麼可能有這樣的一個狀況發生我想這個部分不是我們今天討論的重點但是我必須要提出來那我也想請教一下院長韓國瑜院長也曾經跟您說過是不是不要提複議要加強溝通結果你們有這樣做嗎韓院長跟我講了很多話\n很多的條件,最後不履行的不是都在我這只是其中最後的狀況,之前談的條件沒有履行的不是在我\n請問一下韓國瑜院長有跟您說過是不是不要提復議是不是要加強溝通嗎那就是大家要加強溝通我想韓國瑜院長主要是這樣的意思但是我們現在看到的行政院現在好像感覺是在為大惡霸在添柴火所以堅持要提出復議所以我覺得這個部分請院長真的要好好的討論一下如果復議案通過的話\n對社會的觀感是不一樣的我也誠心希望如此我們希望的是我想這個不要大惡霸才是社會最期待的喔那我可以跟院長再探討一下您看一下這個表格這個是立法院通過114年度中央政府總預算的經費高達兩兆9248億比113年度增加了729億那如果扣除掉補助給台電的1000億其實三減的比例也只有3.55%\n也遠低於蔡英文前總統說的10%結果各部會紛紛跳出來開記者會然後還製作假圖片造謠欺騙國人這是中華民國史上的第一招而且院長您在行政院副議案說明也有提到114年度稅出預算總三件數是過去\n平均的6倍喔那逾越了預算審議的合理監督範圍所以請問院長喔立法院審議預算需要先徵求行政院的同意嗎過去8年是不是都把我們立法院當作行政院的立法局了而且你知不知道在114年度我們在做這個預算的黨團協商的時候跟過去幾年最大的差異是什麼\n我們今年的預算跟過去幾年最大的差異在做政黨黨團協商的時候最大的差異是什麼這是\n朝野內部大院內部的協商或是院長主持的協商院長主持的協商最大的差異我要告訴院長就是執政黨的立法院的黨團總召柯建民帶頭的來杯葛預算的協商的一個進行所以導致部分的協商沒有辦法進行有效的溝通這在過去是沒有發生過的我是不能這樣講如果最大的差異就是組織協商的人不同\n主持協商的是院長 但是杯葛整個浴室進行的是柯建民總召我相信我們把過去的協商的院長 協商的袋子放出來我覺得大家都應該眼光顯然都知道是為什麼的原因那我們再次來看一下 我們看一下這個\n院長你再看一下剛剛講的是我們這個刪減的預算那剛剛我聽到很多民進黨的委員在講說凍結的預算1381億是史上最高那我做了一個表格請各位看一下我統計了凍結比例超過5%的有8次其中3次是凍結超過10%在扁政府馬政府時代各位可以看到即使在扁政府時代94年95年的時候\n最初的預算數走一兆6000多億可是凍結的比例是2078億跟2130億還有在馬政府時代的時候在102年的時候最初的預算是一兆9446億那凍結的比例是2074億都遠遠的超過了\n這一次我們凍結了1381億所以說當時扁政府跟馬政府也沒有像賴政府這樣怒氣衝天也沒有這樣不尊重國會也沒有提出復議那請問一下院長為什麼不願意去找一下陳水扁前總統請議找一下蔡英文前總統請議他們都認為既然預算可以砍20%都能夠運行當然應該知道怎麼解決喔\n那我想其實人民已經看不慣民進黨過去八年在立法院的阿拔的行為而立法院儼然成為行政院的立法局所以國人在2024年1月13號已經投票決定民進黨只有在立法院只有51席成為少數黨那請問一下院長喔國民黨一線法替人民嚴格監督預算有什麼問題嗎\n你一直提到治愛難行喔\n那其實您有沒有仔細的回想杯葛協商預算協商的其實是柯建民總召所以您有沒有跟柯建民總召進行溝通請他不要再來杯葛預算若是沒有溝通的話要繼續的我行我素不管是今天的這個未來的追加減或者是說我們的115年的預算的審議如果柯建民總召還是要這樣杯葛預算的協商的話根本就不可能能夠進行的查詢我無法在這裡智慧\n大院草野協商的內容但是就這麼多的部會全數被刪除的項目這麼多而且不能留用\n而且這是通山的表決的時候這怎麼協商呢?我想有什麼樣的問題本來就是要溝通協商絕對沒有做不到的事情那我想在野黨監督執政黨本來就是天經地義的事情所以也是中華的一個憲法賦予我們的權利而且要經過充分的討論剛剛有提到美國聯邦政府發生那麼多次停擺的狀況他們也沒有到處去造謠到處去欺騙而是加強溝通\n落上國際新聞了美國政府關門都落上國際新聞了還沒有所以其實院長您在去年520上任的時候您提出您是行動創新AI內閣其實國人都充滿期待但是為什麼會現在行動創新內閣變成摯愛男性內閣\nAI內閣變成富裕內閣其實我們都很希望大家能夠好好把這個國家治理好可是如果有這麼多的自愛難行的問題應該是要加強溝通而不是用造謠的方式我們實際的理念就展現在我們的預算編列上面而這種不合理的針對特定機關到處的造謠到處各部會去造謠甚至參加任何的活動都可以聽到\n最後我要跟這個院長再請教一下您可以看一下我們這個表就是國防部在114年度的預算比113年度增加416億元那衛福部在114年度比113年度增加了318億元\n而我們現在看到的是民進黨透過網軍不斷的在社群網路賴帳號造謠國民黨民眾黨大三國防預算衛福部的預算那所以你們這樣的行為是因為預算受到嚴格監督之後才惱羞成怒嗎如果行政院以這樣子的一個態度要來解決現在預算的困局的話一定是沒有辦法\n那每個總統遇到預算的問題都知道要跟在野黨溝通我們在維護的是國軍我們在保障的是國軍我們沒有網軍我們沒有網軍那你要看一下我們新增的預算到底展現在哪裡去啊你老是不再看到就是我們新增的預算就拿一個數字來說明\n請問一下國防部的預算有沒有增加416億元衛福部的預算有沒有比去年增加318億認為我們國防預算不需增加是嗎\n都需要增加所以我說有增加不是嗎那為什麼要造謠說三減呢每一項都受說明了我想其實喔軍事裝備這三減都50億我們遇到問題要去解決我相信卓院長您也是一個解決問題的人做實事的人所以您應該要做的是要怎麼去解決這樣的困局就是加強跟在野黨的溝通而不是到處的我們還甚至看到連看板都出來了因為國民兩黨三運算所以什麼長照經費不能\n我要加強說明 光是說中央政府今年比去年多2,806億我說了不下100次 委員都沒有聽進去我再說一次 今年的預算比去年多了2,806億我說了不下100次 委員你聽進去了沒有我剛剛也講比去年多了729億\n剛剛我們巡查時間結束\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.560 --> 00:09.003\n謝謝主席我們請卓院長請卓院長備詢\n\n00:20.498 --> 00:36.358\n薛恩好院長好院長我想請教您蔡英文前總統她在2012年的11月22號在自己的臉書上說我覺得現在的政府機關所有的預算都要減20%一定要大砍才能帶動結構性的轉變\n\n00:38.180 --> 01:05.135\n而大砍之後拿出10%來重新分配給最需要的那因為我當過部會首長所以我知道砍掉10%對政府或部會來說都會活得好好的那當時陳其邁市長也同意蔡英文總統的說法因此也轉貼了他這個貼文那所以請問院長114年度我們的立法院的中央所通過的中央政府的總預算三減的幅度有超過10%嗎\n\n01:06.896 --> 01:34.679\n雖然我沒有數字應該是沒有沒有超過10%是那請問蔡英文陳其邁都說砍掉10%政府也可以過得好好那為什麼現在賴政府的預算被刪減的幅度低於10%那為什麼整個部會大家都好像是世界末日然後到處在造謠到處在說這個現在自然難行過不下去請問一下這個是院長您的意思還是賴清德總統的意思\n\n01:35.321 --> 01:35.928\n行政院編列的預算\n\n01:37.720 --> 02:03.917\n據理跟立法院說明那如果中間發生跟行政編列預算不符合的我們來說明當然是依照我們編列預算原來的想法所以我建議院長是不是可以去跟蔡英文前總統或陳其邁市長請教一下怎麼才能讓賴政府各部會活下去他們可以做得到我相信你們應該也做得到如果委員會看看這張單子現在我想各部會都在造謠嘛\n\n02:06.098 --> 02:23.827\n1%左右等一下我會跟您探討這個問題現在是6.6%院長我等一下會跟您探討這個問題待會你就會看到所以現在各部會一直在招搖哭窮所以我覺得一定有一方在說謊所以如果院長您是對的代表是不是蔡英文前總統就是在說謊\n\n02:25.468 --> 02:40.836\n我們可以看到行政院的附議說明中有提到預算的提出審議跟執行必須要行政權跟立法權的協力分工請問院長立法權可不可以透過預算進行監督來制衡行政權\n\n02:42.691 --> 03:03.305\n立法權可以監督行政權的方式很多是可不可以透過審議預算預算進行監督要監督同時也要提高國家的行政效率跟整體發展所以院長也同意本來我們立法權就是可以透過法案透過預算的監督來制衡行政權這本來就是權力分立的一個原則那請問一下\n\n03:04.085 --> 03:20.675\n院長您在行政院的附議說明中有提到114年度審議的結果與這個預算審議的合理的監督範圍請問院長什麼叫合理的監督範圍剛剛有提到有七個部會包括院\n\n03:21.530 --> 03:34.446\n被刪減之後的刪減數超過原編的預算數所以院長的意思就是說以後我們立法院在寫預算的時候一定要先跟行政院溝通你們通過之後你們同意之後我們才能夠刪減預算嗎行政院如果編100塊你不能刪120塊\n\n03:37.069 --> 04:00.707\n這個部分我相信一定可以在做過草野協商的時候來做一些溝通那為什麼當時草野協商沒辦法溝通我相信院長很清楚就是當時我們民進黨的這個總召柯建民總召他其實一直都在背個我們預算的一個草野協商所以導致說有一些的有一些這樣的提案我們沒有辦法去做一個溝通我想這個才是真正的協商的過程就算有問題\n\n04:03.369 --> 04:16.994\n表決的數字也不能出問題等一下我會跟你來討論那另外還有就是最近美國聯邦政府又因為預算的審查問題可能出現停擺那美國聯邦政府自1976年來國會實施預算審核流程之後\n\n04:20.756 --> 04:45.535\n請您看一下已經出現23次至少持續一天的資金缺口造成聯邦政府停擺那其中最長的一次是在川普第一任的時候是從2018年12月21號持續到2019年1月25號逐逐停擺了三四天那他在第一任任內因為停擺了三次所以總共停擺了39天其中民主黨執政時期停擺了9次共和黨執政時期停擺了14次\n\n04:47.657 --> 05:00.594\n那歷經停擺的美國總統有福特、卡特、雷根、老布希、柯林頓、歐巴馬跟川普請問院長知不知道美國執政黨最後怎麼結束預算沒通過的停擺狀態嗎委員希望我們停擺幾天\n\n05:03.986 --> 05:15.570\n我是問您知不知道他結束停擺的狀態您知道是為什麼嗎當然是草野協商他們就是加強與在野黨的溝通加強與在野黨的溝通才是真正解決問題的方法請問院長經過美國經歷這麼多次的停擺執政黨有因此而發起大罷免國會的議員嗎\n\n05:31.595 --> 05:41.461\n憲法設計不同憲法設計不同國情不同所以我們的憲政設計是有說要大罷免我們所有的委員嗎選舉罷免創始副主席所以我想這個憲法設計問題並不代表我們中華民國的政府可以這樣做我沒有去講大罷免啊\n\n05:56.090 --> 06:12.578\n那現在罷免35席的這個我們國民黨的委員不是行政院不是總統去發動這樣的事情那這樣如果沒有默許的話怎麼可能有這樣的一個狀況發生我想這個部分不是我們今天討論的重點但是我必須要提出來那我也想請教一下院長韓國瑜院長也曾經跟您說過是不是不要提複議要加強溝通結果你們有這樣做嗎韓院長跟我講了很多話\n\n06:24.877 --> 06:35.517\n很多的條件,最後不履行的不是都在我這只是其中最後的狀況,之前談的條件沒有履行的不是在我\n\n06:37.046 --> 07:02.861\n請問一下韓國瑜院長有跟您說過是不是不要提復議是不是要加強溝通嗎那就是大家要加強溝通我想韓國瑜院長主要是這樣的意思但是我們現在看到的行政院現在好像感覺是在為大惡霸在添柴火所以堅持要提出復議所以我覺得這個部分請院長真的要好好的討論一下如果復議案通過的話\n\n07:03.921 --> 07:30.337\n對社會的觀感是不一樣的我也誠心希望如此我們希望的是我想這個不要大惡霸才是社會最期待的喔那我可以跟院長再探討一下您看一下這個表格這個是立法院通過114年度中央政府總預算的經費高達兩兆9248億比113年度增加了729億那如果扣除掉補助給台電的1000億其實三減的比例也只有3.55%\n\n07:31.798 --> 07:51.239\n也遠低於蔡英文前總統說的10%結果各部會紛紛跳出來開記者會然後還製作假圖片造謠欺騙國人這是中華民國史上的第一招而且院長您在行政院副議案說明也有提到114年度稅出預算總三件數是過去\n\n07:51.920 --> 08:15.644\n平均的6倍喔那逾越了預算審議的合理監督範圍所以請問院長喔立法院審議預算需要先徵求行政院的同意嗎過去8年是不是都把我們立法院當作行政院的立法局了而且你知不知道在114年度我們在做這個預算的黨團協商的時候跟過去幾年最大的差異是什麼\n\n08:17.145 --> 08:23.101\n我們今年的預算跟過去幾年最大的差異在做政黨黨團協商的時候最大的差異是什麼這是\n\n08:25.106 --> 08:50.387\n朝野內部大院內部的協商或是院長主持的協商院長主持的協商最大的差異我要告訴院長就是執政黨的立法院的黨團總召柯建民帶頭的來杯葛預算的協商的一個進行所以導致部分的協商沒有辦法進行有效的溝通這在過去是沒有發生過的我是不能這樣講如果最大的差異就是組織協商的人不同\n\n08:51.226 --> 09:11.479\n主持協商的是院長但是杯葛整個浴室進行的是柯建民總召我相信我們把過去的協商的院長協商的袋子放出來我覺得大家都應該眼光顯然都知道是為什麼的原因那我們再次來看一下我們看一下這個\n\n09:13.800 --> 09:40.259\n院長你再看一下剛剛講的是我們這個刪減的預算那剛剛我聽到很多民進黨的委員在講說凍結的預算1381億是史上最高那我做了一個表格請各位看一下我統計了凍結比例超過5%的有8次其中3次是凍結超過10%在扁政府馬政府時代各位可以看到即使在扁政府時代94年95年的時候\n\n09:40.859 --> 09:44.784\n最初的預算數走一兆6000多億可是凍結的比例是2078億跟2130億還有在馬政府時代的時候在102年的時候最初的預算是一兆9446億那凍結的比例是2074億都遠遠的超過了\n\n10:01.563 --> 10:20.776\n這一次我們凍結了1381億所以說當時扁政府跟馬政府也沒有像賴政府這樣怒氣衝天也沒有這樣不尊重國會也沒有提出復議那請問一下院長為什麼不願意去找一下陳水扁前總統請議找一下蔡英文前總統請議他們都認為既然預算可以砍20%都能夠運行當然應該知道怎麼解決喔\n\n10:26.720 --> 10:51.018\n那我想其實人民已經看不慣民進黨過去八年在立法院的阿拔的行為而立法院儼然成為行政院的立法局所以國人在2024年1月13號已經投票決定民進黨只有在立法院只有51席成為少數黨那請問一下院長喔國民黨一線法替人民嚴格監督預算有什麼問題嗎\n\n10:53.783 --> 10:54.564\n你一直提到治愛難行喔\n\n11:13.344 --> 11:40.614\n那其實您有沒有仔細的回想杯葛協商預算協商的其實是柯建民總召所以您有沒有跟柯建民總召進行溝通請他不要再來杯葛預算若是沒有溝通的話要繼續的我行我素不管是今天的這個未來的追加減或者是說我們的115年的預算的審議如果柯建民總召還是要這樣杯葛預算的協商的話根本就不可能能夠進行的查詢我無法在這裡智慧\n\n11:41.755 --> 11:49.625\n大院草野協商的內容但是就這麼多的部會全數被刪除的項目這麼多而且不能留用\n\n11:51.453 --> 12:06.762\n而且這是通山的表決的時候這怎麼協商呢?我想有什麼樣的問題本來就是要溝通協商絕對沒有做不到的事情那我想在野黨監督執政黨本來就是天經地義的事情所以也是中華的一個憲法賦予我們的權利而且要經過充分的討論剛剛有提到美國聯邦政府發生那麼多次停擺的狀況他們也沒有到處去造謠到處去欺騙而是加強溝通\n\n12:16.448 --> 12:21.229\n落上國際新聞了美國政府關門都落上國際新聞了還沒有所以其實院長您在去年520上任的時候您提出您是行動創新AI內閣其實國人都充滿期待但是為什麼會現在行動創新內閣變成摯愛男性內閣\n\n12:36.813 --> 12:55.027\nAI內閣變成富裕內閣其實我們都很希望大家能夠好好把這個國家治理好可是如果有這麼多的自愛難行的問題應該是要加強溝通而不是用造謠的方式我們實際的理念就展現在我們的預算編列上面而這種不合理的針對特定機關到處的造謠到處各部會去造謠甚至參加任何的活動都可以聽到\n\n13:00.971 --> 13:07.496\n最後我要跟這個院長再請教一下您可以看一下我們這個表就是國防部在114年度的預算比113年度增加416億元那衛福部在114年度比113年度增加了318億元\n\n13:31.131 --> 13:53.813\n而我們現在看到的是民進黨透過網軍不斷的在社群網路賴帳號造謠國民黨民眾黨大三國防預算衛福部的預算那所以你們這樣的行為是因為預算受到嚴格監督之後才惱羞成怒嗎如果行政院以這樣子的一個態度要來解決現在預算的困局的話一定是沒有辦法\n\n13:54.133 --> 14:03.318\n那每個總統遇到預算的問題都知道要跟在野黨溝通我們在維護的是國軍我們在保障的是國軍我們沒有網軍我們沒有網軍那你要看一下我們新增的預算到底展現在哪裡去啊你老是不再看到就是我們新增的預算就拿一個數字來說明\n\n14:21.946 --> 14:29.906\n請問一下國防部的預算有沒有增加416億元衛福部的預算有沒有比去年增加318億認為我們國防預算不需增加是嗎\n\n14:31.019 --> 14:59.277\n都需要增加所以我說有增加不是嗎那為什麼要造謠說三減呢每一項都受說明了我想其實喔軍事裝備這三減都50億我們遇到問題要去解決我相信卓院長您也是一個解決問題的人做實事的人所以您應該要做的是要怎麼去解決這樣的困局就是加強跟在野黨的溝通而不是到處的我們還甚至看到連看板都出來了因為國民兩黨三運算所以什麼長照經費不能\n\n15:01.038 --> 15:11.745\n我要加強說明光是說中央政府今年比去年多2,806億我說了不下100次委員都沒有聽進去我再說一次今年的預算比去年多了2,806億我說了不下100次委員你聽進去了沒有我剛剛也講比去年多了729億\n\n15:33.578 --> 15:35.304\n剛剛我們巡查時間結束\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.56,"end":9.003,"text":"謝謝主席我們請卓院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":20.498,"end":36.358,"text":"薛恩好院長好院長我想請教您蔡英文前總統她在2012年的11月22號在自己的臉書上說我覺得現在的政府機關所有的預算都要減20%一定要大砍才能帶動結構性的轉變"},{"start":38.18,"end":65.135,"text":"而大砍之後拿出10%來重新分配給最需要的那因為我當過部會首長所以我知道砍掉10%對政府或部會來說都會活得好好的那當時陳其邁市長也同意蔡英文總統的說法因此也轉貼了他這個貼文那所以請問院長114年度我們的立法院的中央所通過的中央政府的總預算三減的幅度有超過10%嗎"},{"start":66.896,"end":94.679,"text":"雖然我沒有數字應該是沒有沒有超過10%是那請問蔡英文陳其邁都說砍掉10%政府也可以過得好好那為什麼現在賴政府的預算被刪減的幅度低於10%那為什麼整個部會大家都好像是世界末日然後到處在造謠到處在說這個現在自然難行過不下去請問一下這個是院長您的意思還是賴清德總統的意思"},{"start":95.321,"end":95.928,"text":"行政院編列的預算"},{"start":97.72,"end":123.917,"text":"據理跟立法院說明那如果中間發生跟行政編列預算不符合的我們來說明當然是依照我們編列預算原來的想法所以我建議院長是不是可以去跟蔡英文前總統或陳其邁市長請教一下怎麼才能讓賴政府各部會活下去他們可以做得到我相信你們應該也做得到如果委員會看看這張單子現在我想各部會都在造謠嘛"},{"start":126.098,"end":143.827,"text":"1%左右等一下我會跟您探討這個問題現在是6.6%院長我等一下會跟您探討這個問題待會你就會看到所以現在各部會一直在招搖哭窮所以我覺得一定有一方在說謊所以如果院長您是對的代表是不是蔡英文前總統就是在說謊"},{"start":145.468,"end":160.836,"text":"我們可以看到行政院的附議說明中有提到預算的提出審議跟執行必須要行政權跟立法權的協力分工請問院長立法權可不可以透過預算進行監督來制衡行政權"},{"start":162.691,"end":183.305,"text":"立法權可以監督行政權的方式很多是可不可以透過審議預算預算進行監督要監督同時也要提高國家的行政效率跟整體發展所以院長也同意本來我們立法權就是可以透過法案透過預算的監督來制衡行政權這本來就是權力分立的一個原則那請問一下"},{"start":184.085,"end":200.675,"text":"院長您在行政院的附議說明中有提到114年度審議的結果與這個預算審議的合理的監督範圍請問院長什麼叫合理的監督範圍剛剛有提到有七個部會包括院"},{"start":201.53,"end":214.446,"text":"被刪減之後的刪減數超過原編的預算數所以院長的意思就是說以後我們立法院在寫預算的時候一定要先跟行政院溝通你們通過之後你們同意之後我們才能夠刪減預算嗎行政院如果編100塊你不能刪120塊"},{"start":217.069,"end":240.707,"text":"這個部分我相信一定可以在做過草野協商的時候來做一些溝通那為什麼當時草野協商沒辦法溝通我相信院長很清楚就是當時我們民進黨的這個總召柯建民總召他其實一直都在背個我們預算的一個草野協商所以導致說有一些的有一些這樣的提案我們沒有辦法去做一個溝通我想這個才是真正的協商的過程就算有問題"},{"start":243.369,"end":256.994,"text":"表決的數字也不能出問題等一下我會跟你來討論那另外還有就是最近美國聯邦政府又因為預算的審查問題可能出現停擺那美國聯邦政府自1976年來國會實施預算審核流程之後"},{"start":260.756,"end":285.535,"text":"請您看一下已經出現23次至少持續一天的資金缺口造成聯邦政府停擺那其中最長的一次是在川普第一任的時候是從2018年12月21號持續到2019年1月25號逐逐停擺了三四天那他在第一任任內因為停擺了三次所以總共停擺了39天其中民主黨執政時期停擺了9次共和黨執政時期停擺了14次"},{"start":287.657,"end":300.594,"text":"那歷經停擺的美國總統有福特、卡特、雷根、老布希、柯林頓、歐巴馬跟川普請問院長知不知道美國執政黨最後怎麼結束預算沒通過的停擺狀態嗎委員希望我們停擺幾天"},{"start":303.986,"end":315.57,"text":"我是問您知不知道他結束停擺的狀態 您知道是為什麼嗎當然是草野協商他們就是加強與在野黨的溝通加強與在野黨的溝通才是真正解決問題的方法請問院長 經過美國經歷這麼多次的停擺執政黨有因此而發起大罷免國會的議員嗎"},{"start":331.595,"end":341.461,"text":"憲法設計不同憲法設計不同國情不同所以我們的憲政設計是有說要大罷免我們所有的委員嗎選舉罷免創始副主席所以我想這個憲法設計問題並不代表我們中華民國的政府可以這樣做我沒有去講大罷免啊"},{"start":356.09,"end":372.578,"text":"那現在罷免35席的這個我們國民黨的委員不是行政院不是總統去發動這樣的事情那這樣如果沒有默許的話怎麼可能有這樣的一個狀況發生我想這個部分不是我們今天討論的重點但是我必須要提出來那我也想請教一下院長韓國瑜院長也曾經跟您說過是不是不要提複議要加強溝通結果你們有這樣做嗎韓院長跟我講了很多話"},{"start":384.877,"end":395.517,"text":"很多的條件,最後不履行的不是都在我這只是其中最後的狀況,之前談的條件沒有履行的不是在我"},{"start":397.046,"end":422.861,"text":"請問一下韓國瑜院長有跟您說過是不是不要提復議是不是要加強溝通嗎那就是大家要加強溝通我想韓國瑜院長主要是這樣的意思但是我們現在看到的行政院現在好像感覺是在為大惡霸在添柴火所以堅持要提出復議所以我覺得這個部分請院長真的要好好的討論一下如果復議案通過的話"},{"start":423.921,"end":450.337,"text":"對社會的觀感是不一樣的我也誠心希望如此我們希望的是我想這個不要大惡霸才是社會最期待的喔那我可以跟院長再探討一下您看一下這個表格這個是立法院通過114年度中央政府總預算的經費高達兩兆9248億比113年度增加了729億那如果扣除掉補助給台電的1000億其實三減的比例也只有3.55%"},{"start":451.798,"end":471.239,"text":"也遠低於蔡英文前總統說的10%結果各部會紛紛跳出來開記者會然後還製作假圖片造謠欺騙國人這是中華民國史上的第一招而且院長您在行政院副議案說明也有提到114年度稅出預算總三件數是過去"},{"start":471.92,"end":495.644,"text":"平均的6倍喔那逾越了預算審議的合理監督範圍所以請問院長喔立法院審議預算需要先徵求行政院的同意嗎過去8年是不是都把我們立法院當作行政院的立法局了而且你知不知道在114年度我們在做這個預算的黨團協商的時候跟過去幾年最大的差異是什麼"},{"start":497.145,"end":503.101,"text":"我們今年的預算跟過去幾年最大的差異在做政黨黨團協商的時候最大的差異是什麼這是"},{"start":505.106,"end":530.387,"text":"朝野內部大院內部的協商或是院長主持的協商院長主持的協商最大的差異我要告訴院長就是執政黨的立法院的黨團總召柯建民帶頭的來杯葛預算的協商的一個進行所以導致部分的協商沒有辦法進行有效的溝通這在過去是沒有發生過的我是不能這樣講如果最大的差異就是組織協商的人不同"},{"start":531.226,"end":551.479,"text":"主持協商的是院長 但是杯葛整個浴室進行的是柯建民總召我相信我們把過去的協商的院長 協商的袋子放出來我覺得大家都應該眼光顯然都知道是為什麼的原因那我們再次來看一下 我們看一下這個"},{"start":553.8,"end":580.259,"text":"院長你再看一下剛剛講的是我們這個刪減的預算那剛剛我聽到很多民進黨的委員在講說凍結的預算1381億是史上最高那我做了一個表格請各位看一下我統計了凍結比例超過5%的有8次其中3次是凍結超過10%在扁政府馬政府時代各位可以看到即使在扁政府時代94年95年的時候"},{"start":580.859,"end":584.784,"text":"最初的預算數走一兆6000多億可是凍結的比例是2078億跟2130億還有在馬政府時代的時候在102年的時候最初的預算是一兆9446億那凍結的比例是2074億都遠遠的超過了"},{"start":601.563,"end":620.776,"text":"這一次我們凍結了1381億所以說當時扁政府跟馬政府也沒有像賴政府這樣怒氣衝天也沒有這樣不尊重國會也沒有提出復議那請問一下院長為什麼不願意去找一下陳水扁前總統請議找一下蔡英文前總統請議他們都認為既然預算可以砍20%都能夠運行當然應該知道怎麼解決喔"},{"start":626.72,"end":651.018,"text":"那我想其實人民已經看不慣民進黨過去八年在立法院的阿拔的行為而立法院儼然成為行政院的立法局所以國人在2024年1月13號已經投票決定民進黨只有在立法院只有51席成為少數黨那請問一下院長喔國民黨一線法替人民嚴格監督預算有什麼問題嗎"},{"start":653.783,"end":654.564,"text":"你一直提到治愛難行喔"},{"start":673.344,"end":700.614,"text":"那其實您有沒有仔細的回想杯葛協商預算協商的其實是柯建民總召所以您有沒有跟柯建民總召進行溝通請他不要再來杯葛預算若是沒有溝通的話要繼續的我行我素不管是今天的這個未來的追加減或者是說我們的115年的預算的審議如果柯建民總召還是要這樣杯葛預算的協商的話根本就不可能能夠進行的查詢我無法在這裡智慧"},{"start":701.755,"end":709.625,"text":"大院草野協商的內容但是就這麼多的部會全數被刪除的項目這麼多而且不能留用"},{"start":711.453,"end":726.762,"text":"而且這是通山的表決的時候這怎麼協商呢?我想有什麼樣的問題本來就是要溝通協商絕對沒有做不到的事情那我想在野黨監督執政黨本來就是天經地義的事情所以也是中華的一個憲法賦予我們的權利而且要經過充分的討論剛剛有提到美國聯邦政府發生那麼多次停擺的狀況他們也沒有到處去造謠到處去欺騙而是加強溝通"},{"start":736.448,"end":741.229,"text":"落上國際新聞了美國政府關門都落上國際新聞了還沒有所以其實院長您在去年520上任的時候您提出您是行動創新AI內閣其實國人都充滿期待但是為什麼會現在行動創新內閣變成摯愛男性內閣"},{"start":756.813,"end":775.027,"text":"AI內閣變成富裕內閣其實我們都很希望大家能夠好好把這個國家治理好可是如果有這麼多的自愛難行的問題應該是要加強溝通而不是用造謠的方式我們實際的理念就展現在我們的預算編列上面而這種不合理的針對特定機關到處的造謠到處各部會去造謠甚至參加任何的活動都可以聽到"},{"start":780.971,"end":787.496,"text":"最後我要跟這個院長再請教一下您可以看一下我們這個表就是國防部在114年度的預算比113年度增加416億元那衛福部在114年度比113年度增加了318億元"},{"start":811.131,"end":833.813,"text":"而我們現在看到的是民進黨透過網軍不斷的在社群網路賴帳號造謠國民黨民眾黨大三國防預算衛福部的預算那所以你們這樣的行為是因為預算受到嚴格監督之後才惱羞成怒嗎如果行政院以這樣子的一個態度要來解決現在預算的困局的話一定是沒有辦法"},{"start":834.133,"end":843.318,"text":"那每個總統遇到預算的問題都知道要跟在野黨溝通我們在維護的是國軍我們在保障的是國軍我們沒有網軍我們沒有網軍那你要看一下我們新增的預算到底展現在哪裡去啊你老是不再看到就是我們新增的預算就拿一個數字來說明"},{"start":861.946,"end":869.906,"text":"請問一下國防部的預算有沒有增加416億元衛福部的預算有沒有比去年增加318億認為我們國防預算不需增加是嗎"},{"start":871.019,"end":899.277,"text":"都需要增加所以我說有增加不是嗎那為什麼要造謠說三減呢每一項都受說明了我想其實喔軍事裝備這三減都50億我們遇到問題要去解決我相信卓院長您也是一個解決問題的人做實事的人所以您應該要做的是要怎麼去解決這樣的困局就是加強跟在野黨的溝通而不是到處的我們還甚至看到連看板都出來了因為國民兩黨三運算所以什麼長照經費不能"},{"start":901.038,"end":911.745,"text":"我要加強說明 光是說中央政府今年比去年多2,806億我說了不下100次 委員都沒有聽進去我再說一次 今年的預算比去年多了2,806億我說了不下100次 委員你聽進去了沒有我剛剛也講比去年多了729億"},{"start":933.578,"end":935.304,"text":"剛剛我們巡查時間結束"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":936,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（11時53分）謝謝主席，我們請卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：許委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：院長好。院長，我想請教您，蔡英文前總統在2012年的11月22號，在自己的臉書上說：我覺得現在的政府機關所有的預算都要減20%，一定要大砍，才能帶動結構性的轉變，而大砍之後拿出10%重新分配給最需要的，因為我當過部會首長，所以我知道砍掉10%對政府或部會來說都會活得好好的。當時陳其邁市長也同意蔡英文總統的說法，因此也轉貼他這個貼文。所以請問院長，114年度我們立法院所通過的中央政府總預算刪減的幅度有超過10%嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：雖然我沒有數字，應該是沒有。"],["許委員宇甄：沒有超過10%。請問：蔡英文、陳其邁都說砍掉10%政府也可以過得好好，現在賴政府的預算被刪減的幅度低於10%，為什麼整個部會大家都好像是世界末日，然後到處在造謠，到處說現在窒礙難行、過不下去？請問一下，這個是院長您的意思，還是賴清德總統的意思？"],["卓院長榮泰：行政院編列的預算是據理跟立法院說明，如果中間發生跟行政院編列預算不符合的，我們來說明，當然是依照我們編列預算原來的想法。"],["許委員宇甄：所以我建議院長是不是可以去跟蔡英文前總統或陳其邁市長請教一下怎麼才能讓賴政府各部會活下去，他們可以做得到，我相信你們應該也做得到。"],["卓院長榮泰：如果委員願意看看這張單子……"],["許委員宇甄：我想現在各部會都在造謠……"],["卓院長榮泰：每一年的刪減數都在1%左右到2%……"],["許委員宇甄：是，等一下我會跟您探討這個問題……"],["卓院長榮泰：現在是6.6%。"],["許委員宇甄：院長，我等一下會跟您探討這個問題，待會你就會看到。現在各部會一直在造謠、哭窮，所以我覺得一定有一方在說謊，如果院長您是對的，代表是不是就是蔡英文前總統在說謊？我們可以看到行政院的覆議說明中有提到，預算的提出、審議跟執行必須要行政權跟立法權的協力分工。請問院長，立法權可不可以透過預算進行監督來制衡行政權？"],["卓院長榮泰：立法權可以監督行政權的方式有很多……"],["許委員宇甄：是，可不可以透過預算進行監督？"],["卓院長榮泰：透過審議預算監督，同時也要提高國家的行政效率跟整體發展。"],["許委員宇甄：所以院長也同意，本來我們立法權就是可以透過法案、透過預算的監督來制衡行政權，這本來就是權力分立的原則。請問一下院長，您在行政院的覆議說明中有提到114年度審議結果逾越預算審議的合理監督範圍。請問院長，什麼叫合理的監督範圍？"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛提到有7個部會，包括院，被刪減之後的刪減數超過原編的預算數。"],["許委員宇甄：所以院長的意思是，以後我們立法院在審預算時一定要先跟行政院溝通，你們通過之後、你們同意之後，我們才能夠刪減嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：行政院如果編100塊，你們不能刪120塊。"],["許委員宇甄：這個部分我相信一定可以再透過朝野協商來做一些溝通……"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，那為什麼會……"],["許委員宇甄：為什麼當時朝野協商沒辦法溝通，我相信院長很清楚……"],["卓院長榮泰：為什麼結果會是這樣？那就是……"],["許委員宇甄：就是當時民進黨的柯建銘總召，他其實一直都在杯葛我們預算的朝野協商，導致有一些提案我們沒有辦法去做溝通，我想這個才是真正的果，不能倒因為果。另外……"],["卓院長榮泰：協商的過程就算有問題，表決的數字也不能出問題。"],["許委員宇甄：院長，等一下我會跟你討論。","最近美國聯邦政府又因為預算審查問題可能出現停擺，美國聯邦政府自1976年國會實施預算審核流程之後，請您看一下，已經出現23次至少持續1天的資金缺口，造成聯邦政府停擺，其中最長的一次是在川普第一任的時候，從2018年12月21號持續到2019年1月25號，足足停擺了34天，他在第一任任內停擺了3次，總共停擺了39天，其中民主黨執政時期停擺了9次，共和黨執政時期停擺了14次，歷經停擺的美國總統有福特、卡特、雷根、老布希、柯林頓、歐巴馬跟川普。請問院長知不知道美國執政黨最後怎麼結束預算沒通過的停擺狀態嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員希望我們停擺幾天？"],["許委員宇甄：沒有，我是問你知不知道他結束停擺的狀態……"],["卓院長榮泰：對啊，您希望我們停擺幾天？"],["許委員宇甄：您知道是為什麼嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然是朝野協商。"],["許委員宇甄：我告訴院長，他們是加強與在野黨的溝通。"],["卓院長榮泰：對啊！"],["許委員宇甄：加強與在野黨的溝通……"],["卓院長榮泰：覆議就是再一次的協商。"],["許委員宇甄：加強與在野黨的溝通，才是真正解決問題的方法。"],["卓院長榮泰：覆議就是再一次的協商，才不會造成這種狀況，這個是鬧上國際新聞的。"],["許委員宇甄：當然，我想請問院長，美國經歷這麼多次的政府停擺，執政黨有因此而發起大罷免國會的議員嗎？美國政府有嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：憲法設計不同……"],["許委員宇甄：我想，世界很多國家有這樣會發起……"],["卓院長榮泰：憲法設計不同、國情不同，你不能用這樣的方式來講。"],["許委員宇甄：所以我們的憲政設計是有要發動大罷免我們所有的委員嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：選舉、罷免、創制、複決都是人民基本權利。"],["許委員宇甄：所以我想這個憲法設計問題不代表我們中華民國的政府可以這樣做。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們沒有這樣做啊！"],["許委員宇甄：還有，請問院長……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們沒有去講大罷免啊！"],["許委員宇甄：那現在罷免35席我們國民黨的委員是誰發起的？"],["卓院長榮泰：不是行政院、不是總統去發動這樣的事情。"],["許委員宇甄：如果沒有默許的話，怎麼可能有這樣的狀況發生？我想這部分不是我們今天討論的重點，但是我必須要提出來……"],["卓院長榮泰：國民黨全黨在推罷免，也沒有這個結果發生嘛！"],["許委員宇甄：我也想請教一下院長……"],["卓院長榮泰：國民黨全黨在推罷免，也沒有真的發生啊！"],["許委員宇甄：韓國瑜院長也曾經跟您說過，是不是不要提覆議，要加強溝通，結果你們有這樣做嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：韓院長跟我講了很多話……"],["許委員宇甄：是……"],["卓院長榮泰：很多的條件，最後不履行的，不是都在我。"],["許委員宇甄：所以答案是沒有嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，這只是其中最後的狀況，之前談的條件，沒有履行的並不是在我，是在……"],["許委員宇甄：請問一下，韓國瑜院長是不是有跟您說過不要提覆議？是不是要加強溝通？"],["卓院長榮泰：不提覆議之前……"],["許委員宇甄：那就是大家要加強溝通，我想韓國瑜院長主要是這樣的意思。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，不提覆議之前，我們要就最後階段進行溝通啊！"],["許委員宇甄：但是我們看到現在行政院好像是在為大惡罷添柴火，所以堅持要提出覆議……"],["卓院長榮泰：完全沒有！"],["許委員宇甄：所以這部分請院長真的要好好思考一下。"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛吳思瑤委員說過了，如果覆議案通過的話，社會觀感會是不一樣的，所以我也誠心希望如此。"],["許委員宇甄：我想不要大惡罷才是社會最期待的。我想跟院長再探討一下，您看一下這個表格。這是立法院通過的114年度中央政府總預算經費，高達2兆9,248億，比113年度增加了729億。如果扣除補助給台電的1,000億，其實刪減的比例只有3.55%，遠低於蔡英文前總統說的10%。結果各部會紛紛跳出來開記者會，還製作假圖片，造謠欺騙國人，這是中華民國史上的第一遭！院長，您在行政院覆議案的說明有提到，114年度歲出預算總刪減數是過去平均的六倍，逾越了預算審議的合理監督範圍。請問院長，立法院審議預算需要先徵求行政院同意嗎？過去八年是不是都把我們立法院當作行政院的立法局了？而且你知不知道，在114年度進行預算的黨團協商時，跟過去幾年最大的差異是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們今年的預算跟過去幾年最大的差異？"],["許委員宇甄：就是在做政黨黨團協商時最大的差異是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：這是大院內部的協商或是院長主持的協商……"],["許委員宇甄：是院長主持的協商。我來告訴院長，最大的差異就是執政黨的立法院黨團總召柯建銘帶頭杯葛預算的協商進行，所以導致部分協商無法進行有效溝通……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，你這樣說不對……"],["許委員宇甄：這在過去是沒有發生過的！"],["卓院長榮泰：我是不能這樣講，其實最大的差異就是主持協商的人不同。"],["許委員宇甄：主持協商的是院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：對啊！"],["許委員宇甄：但杯葛整個議事進行的是柯建銘總召！我們把過去院長主持的協商會議的帶子……"],["卓院長榮泰：不能把它怪在院長或怪在總召……我覺得大家都要平心靜氣的……"],["許委員宇甄：大家的眼睛都是雪亮的，都知道是為什麼！"],["卓院長榮泰：大家都平心靜氣地談預算，就不會是這樣的結果。"],["許委員宇甄：我們再來看一下。院長，你再看一下。剛剛講的是我們所刪減的預算，剛剛也聽到很多民進黨委員在講，凍結的預算數1,381億是史上最高。我做了一個表格請各位看一下，我統計了凍結比例超過5%的有八次，其中三次凍結超過10%，分在扁政府、馬政府時代。各位可以看到，即使在扁政府時代，即94年、95年時，歲出預算數只有一兆六千多億，可是凍結數是2,078億跟2,130億。在馬政府時代，即102年時，歲出預算是1兆9,446億，凍結數是2,074億，都遠遠超過這一次我們凍結的1,381億。但當時扁政府跟馬政府並沒有像賴政府這樣怒氣沖天，也沒有這樣不尊重國會，也沒有提出覆議，請問一下院長，為什麼不願意去找陳水扁前總統請益？找蔡英文前總統請益？他們都認為即使預算砍20%都能夠運行，當然應該知道怎麼解決！其實人民已經看不慣民進黨過去八年在立法院的鴨霸行為，讓立法院儼然成為行政院的立法局，所以國人在2024年1月13日已經投票決定，讓民進黨在立法院只有51席，成為少數黨。請問院長，國民黨依憲法替人民嚴格監督預算有什麼問題嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：依法監督預算當然沒有問題，我依法提出覆議也是有條件的。我只有在破壞憲政秩序、侵害人民權利，讓行政院窒礙難行，以及沒有經過充分的民主討論跟違背程序正義四個條件……"],["許委員宇甄：院長，您一直提到……"],["卓院長榮泰：我才會被動地提出覆議！"],["許委員宇甄：你一直提到窒礙難行，但你有沒有仔細地回想，杯葛預算協商的其實是柯建銘總召！你有沒有跟柯建銘總召進行溝通，請他不要再杯葛預算？若沒有溝通，要繼續我行我素，那麼不管是未來的追加減預算，或者115年的預算審議，如果柯建銘總召還是要這樣杯葛預算協商的話，根本就不可能進行得下去！"],["卓院長榮泰：我無法在這裡置喙大院朝野協商的內容，但很多部會全數被刪除的項目這麼多，而且不能流用……"],["許委員宇甄：剛剛……"],["卓院長榮泰：而且這是通刪表決通過的，這怎麼協商呢？"],["許委員宇甄：我想有什麼樣的問題本來就是要溝通協商，絕對沒有做不到的事情。在野黨監督執政黨本來就是天經地義的事情……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是不能違背憲法，不能侵害人民權利……"],["許委員宇甄：也是中華民國憲法賦予我們的權利……"],["卓院長榮泰：而且要經過充分的討論。"],["許委員宇甄：我想剛剛有提到，美國聯邦政府發生那麼多次停擺的狀況，他們也沒有到處去造謠、到處去欺騙，而是加強溝通，所以……"],["卓院長榮泰：都鬧上國際新聞了，美國政府關門都鬧上國際新聞了，還說沒有。"],["許委員宇甄：而且今年度還多了729億元，為什麼會窒礙難行？院長，您在去年520上任的時候提出您是行動創新AI內閣，其實國人都充滿期待，但是為什麼現在行動創新內閣變成窒礙難行內閣、AI內閣變成覆議內閣？其實我們都很希望大家能夠好好的把這個國家治理好，可是如果有這麼多窒礙難行的問題……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們的施政理念……"],["許委員宇甄：應該是要加強溝通，而不是用造謠的方式。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們的施政理念就展現在我們預算編列上面，而這種不合理的，針對特定機關、特定項目的……"],["許委員宇甄：到處造謠，各部會去造謠……"],["卓院長榮泰：不是用造謠……"],["許委員宇甄：甚至參加任何的活動都可以聽到部會在造謠說因為國、民兩黨刪減預算，所以哪個經費……"],["卓院長榮泰：不是用造謠兩個字就可以掩飾這裡的錯誤跟輕忽……"],["許委員宇甄：其實這個我覺得都不是真正解決問題的辦法。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個程序上的疏忽跟實際上的錯誤，不是對外講造謠就能彌補過去的。"],["許委員宇甄：最後，最後我要跟院長再請教一下，您可以看一下這個表，國防部114年度的預算比113年度增加416億元；衛福部114年度的預算比113年度增加318億元。而我們現在看到的是民進黨透過網軍不斷的在社群網路、LINE帳號造謠國民黨、民眾黨大刪國防預算、衛福部的預算，所以你們這樣的行為是因為預算受到嚴格監督之後才惱羞成怒嗎？如果行政院以這樣的態度要來解決現在的預算困局的話，一定是沒有辦法。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，您剛剛有兩個字我要更正……"],["許委員宇甄：美國總統遇到預算的問題都知道要跟在野黨溝通……"],["卓院長榮泰：行政院沒有網軍……"],["許委員宇甄：所以說用這樣造謠、攻擊的方式，我覺得真的……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們在維護的是國軍，我們在保障的是國軍……"],["許委員宇甄：不該是用這樣的方式。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們沒有網軍！我們沒有網軍！"],["許委員宇甄：所以請院長，這個部分一定要好好的監督我們各部會……"],["卓院長榮泰：那你要看一下我們新增的預算到底展現在哪裡啊，你老是不重視我們的新增預算，就拿一個個的數字來說明……"],["許委員宇甄：我們現在看到的是，國防部的預算有沒有增加416億元？請問一下，國防部的預算有沒有增加416億元？衛福部的預算有沒有比去年增加318億元？"],["卓院長榮泰：你認為我們的國防預算不需要增加，是嗎？"],["許委員宇甄：都需要增加，所以我說有增加，不是嗎？為什麼要造謠說刪減呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：對啊，每一個項目國防部都做說明了，每一項都做說明了……"],["許委員宇甄：所以院長，我想其實喔……"],["卓院長榮泰：軍事裝備就刪減了51億……"],["許委員宇甄：重要的是我們遇到問題要去解決，我相信卓院長您也是一個解決問題的人、做實事的人……"],["卓院長榮泰：軍事裝備就刪減了51億耶！"],["許委員宇甄：所以您應該要做的是怎麼去解決這樣的困局，就是加強跟在野黨溝通，而不是到處的，我們甚至還看到連看板都出來了，因為國、民兩黨刪預算，所以長照經費不能、育兒津貼會減少……"],["卓院長榮泰：我要加強說明……"],["許委員宇甄：也要拜託卓院長……"],["卓院長榮泰：我光是說中央政府今年比去年多2,806億……"],["許委員宇甄：拜託卓院長加強跟在野黨溝通，我覺得才是全民之福。"],["卓院長榮泰：我說了不下100次，委員都沒有聽進去。"],["許委員宇甄：也請院長，我覺得要加強跟大家的溝通，才是全民之福，不要再造謠生事了。"],["卓院長榮泰：我再說一次，今年的預算比去年多了2,806億，我說了不下一百多次，委員你聽進去了沒有？"],["許委員宇甄：我剛剛也講比去年多了729億，也是史上近3兆的預算，所以大家就要………"],["卓院長榮泰：難道我們還要比去年降低嗎？"],["許委員宇甄：可是我覺得溝通更重要啊。"],["卓院長榮泰：還是新增的項目哪一項不需要用？"],["許委員宇甄：謝謝院長，謝謝院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：如果新增項目哪一項不需要，委員可以指出來。"],["許委員宇甄：溝通是最重要的。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，詢答時間結束。謝謝許委員，謝謝卓院長。","報告全院委員會，上午詢答進行到此為止，下午2時30分繼續開會，進行委員詢答，現在休息。","休息（12時8分）","繼續開會（14時30分）"],["主席：卓院長、各位閣員，午安。","報告全院委員會，現在繼續開會。","進行詢答，請郭國文委員詢問。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":274,"meet_id":"全院委員會-11-3-2","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","吳思瑤","傅崐萁","翁曉玲","林倩綺","范雲","林國成","賴瑞隆","王定宇","徐欣瑩","林岱樺","許宇甄","郭國文","洪孟楷","鍾佳濱","葛如鈞"],"page_start":191,"meetingDate":["2025-03-11"],"gazette_id":"1142501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142501_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第2次全院委員會會議紀錄","content":"「中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案」覆議案","agenda_id":"1142501_00019"}}}