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{\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 727.952, \"end\": 728.252, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"竹\", \"start\": 728.252, \"end\": 728.512, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 728.512, \"end\": 728.733, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 728.733, \"end\": 728.753, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}]}, {\"start\": 732.093, \"end\": 753.301, \"text\": \"那這個在我們六都以外十六縣市中新竹縣市的排名新竹縣市排名第九新竹市是排名第五如果我們再加上一般性的補助款新竹縣調到第十一名新竹市調到第十二名反而是更往後\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 732.093, \"end\": 732.613, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 732.613, \"end\": 733.153, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 733.153, \"end\": 733.433, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"六\", \"start\": 733.433, \"end\": 733.714, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 733.714, \"end\": 733.994, \"score\": 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\"end\": 936.714, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 936.714, \"end\": 936.794, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 936.794, \"end\": 937.856, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"賴\"}, {\"word\": \"瑞\", \"start\": 937.856, \"end\": 938.518, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"榮\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 938.518, \"end\": 938.538, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,314 --> 00:00:13,757\n好謝謝副院長我們請行政院卓院長請卓院長答詢林委員好卓院長好院長我首先還是直求對決請問你到底支不支持財政收支劃分法的修正\n\n2\n00:00:33,109 --> 00:00:56,943\n修正你支不支持這一次的就是財政收支劃分法要修你贊不贊成我剛說過雖然逐年來我們對地方的挹注比較多但是討論如何讓地方財政能夠更有自主在合理的討論下我們都歡迎我們也都願意積極的參與這樣的討論甚至我們也有一個想法好所以你是這就是你贊成修法嗎你是認為要修的\n\n3\n00:00:58,001 --> 00:01:15,139\n因為各地都有這樣聲音我們不能去背著大家的意志但是一定要合理的去討論所以你認為要合理討論來修法但是截至目前為止行政院的版本到底完成了沒有我們有很多的方案\n\n4\n00:01:16,501 --> 00:01:36,496\n我已經報告過這個方案在12月24號表決之前我們都希望能夠有機會來這裡透過黨團協商來談但是那個禮拜大院發生了一些比較秩序上的問題所以一直沒有辦法有效的展開各種的協商這也是我覺得非常遺憾的地方院長我們來看一下在本屆第一會期開始\n\n5\n00:01:38,823 --> 00:02:04,182\n在我們財政委員會總共就有我們藍綠白等委員總共提案了26個財政收支劃分法修法的一個版本那麼在討論的過程中我想部長也非常了解大家一直在等待的就是行政院的版本也就是剛才院長講的所謂的行政院的方案那麼最後\n\n6\n00:02:05,506 --> 00:02:22,051\n我們在財政委員會也從善如流包含本席在內我們連署了一個臨時提案那麼臨時提案的內容就是要求財政部在第二會期開議前提出願板請問為何一直沒有提出來\n\n7\n00:02:24,352 --> 00:02:38,833\n財政部一直很努力在就這個法案的內容在做精算但是更重要比較難的工作是跟各地方政府做更好的溝通這個工作一直在進行這不是一朝一夕可以完成的好\n\n8\n00:02:40,170 --> 00:02:59,464\n院長當然也給你們很衝突的時間部長您也講一下為什麼一直沒有提出來跟委員報告財政收支劃分法其實除了跟中央跟地方的權責劃分還有地方跟地方之間的一個如何的分配我們一直認為說我們應該要充分的溝通\n\n9\n00:02:59,884 --> 00:03:15,830\n得到最大的共識所以我們事實上從113年的年初開始請各地方政府對於分配的指標提出意見總共有80幾個指標那財政部一直不斷的跟地方政府在溝通最後也有一個初步的共識在指標的部分我們就把它濃縮了\n\n10\n00:03:16,710 --> 00:03:25,676\n只有三個有爭議接下來是有關各個指標的權重要怎麼分配以及指標裡面要不要更細緻的去做調整係數我們認為都應該要詳細的規劃審慎的一個進行所以上次財委會要求我們在\n\n11\n00:03:33,821 --> 00:03:59,939\n上個會期能夠提出草案事實上我們在當時也一直很說明說我們認為財化法固然可以修正但是不要倉促的修正我們應該要好好的討論有一個共識過去25年為什麼沒有能夠修法完整就是沒有共識所以我覺得這個部分不需要去這麼倉促那3月6號我們也在開會所以努力是一直在做說明的我也贊同您的說法就是說當然要\n\n12\n00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:27,750\n去很仔細的再去做這個相關的一個研究但是我比較好奇的說現在要復翼囉現在在復翼的前夕了馬上就要復翼囉現在院長我剛才聽到您從早上到現在您答覆幾位我們委員的這個諮詢你都一直要求說請求委員支持本次行政院的復翼讓行政院可以提出版本\n\n13\n00:04:29,451 --> 00:04:58,085\n但是行政院截至目前為止有提供任何的版本給我們立法委員來做一個相關的一個參考或審議嗎到復議的前夕你有提出版本來嗎時間已經那麼久了我贊成剛才部長你講的喔充分的去讓你們有時間去做跟地方政府來做相關的一個研擬但時間已經那麼久一年多了耶所以政府的誠信在哪裡可以這樣一言再言一拖再拖嗎\n\n14\n00:04:59,212 --> 00:05:20,555\n委員我必須說我們在總統召開院計協商之前我們跟立法院也有相當的接觸我就不講什麼方式那時候我們提出說在今年那個是去年的事情在今年的六月我們會提出一個版本後來在協商的一兩天當中希望我們在上個會期結束之前提出版本我也答應了\n\n15\n00:05:21,596 --> 00:05:45,148\n我也答應了這個無需求證我也答應了但是12月20號就發生了表決的事情後來就沒辦法進行院長您剛才提到我也有參與所以我也了解您剛才說的所以我現在很遺憾的是說到現在馬上要復議了但是您說您也答應了在年底就要提出版本到現在都沒有看到版本\n\n16\n00:05:46,304 --> 00:06:11,209\n這到底行政院是到底是有方案還是沒有方案你到底準備好了沒有如果到那時候所說的在今年的六月或是下半年我們提出一個完整的版本那時間上是更充裕如果在上個會期那提出的版本就是提出一個可以被討論的版本那內容可能還要大大的調整在目前為止我們就希望利用這段時間財政部也在不久前3月6號吧\n\n17\n00:06:12,029 --> 00:06:33,811\n跟地方政府做了幾次的溝通把問題漸漸的收斂下來那目前這個工作還在進行所以現在還在進行所以到現在為止你都沒有版本你的方案還是沒有出來有幾個方案所謂的行政院版本一定要經過院會我們有幾個方案這個方案如果跟地方溝通大家取得共識我們就會循程序成為行政院的版本\n\n18\n00:06:34,171 --> 00:07:02,163\n或者再經過立法院的朝野協商讓它成為一個大家的共識所以院長我也贊同你這樣的說法你也希望趕快提出版本嘛對不對所以你認為就是你看一開始也回答我你認為還是要做相關合理的一個修正嘛我們是一致的但是院長我看在去年的10月15號我們看一段影片您答覆在我們本院答覆委員的一個質詢來放影片\n\n19\n00:07:03,049 --> 00:07:22,748\n沒有版本現行的版本我一直強調現在是最好的版本我們看不到更好的版本所以院長您當時回答您的服務員現在的版本就是最好的版本我一直說是執行起來最有把握的版本在今天要復印以前\n\n20\n00:07:24,702 --> 00:07:39,869\n您就跟我們講說您的版本您有在準備一直在找各個部會財政部找各縣市甚至在3月6號您也找各縣市來做相關的一個討論所以截至目前為止都看不到版本\n\n21\n00:07:40,729 --> 00:08:07,395\n所以您的意見是不是剛才你又打臉你自己了你根本就是認為現行的版本就是最好的版本現行應該只有一個版本啦我是認為它執行起來是最有把握的但是如果要來調整如果經過合理的這個大家的商量溝通我們很多的方式都在裡面院長我最後這個再給你一次機會請你誠實的告訴國人現在到底行政院的版本已經準備好了沒有\n\n22\n00:08:08,670 --> 00:08:10,324\n沒有的話我們如何跟地方談呢\n\n23\n00:08:11,809 --> 00:08:40,251\n所以準備好了有方案有方案那為什麼今天沒有辦法提出給我們本院來做一個審議今天不是在協商這個方案我們今天希望透過賦予的方式讓大家回到現狀我們再把我們的版本跟地方再溝通更好之後提出來一個那如果理想就是朝野各黨團能夠形成一個共識那這個就是立法院跟行政院共同的一個版本你已經準備好了你也有版本是\n\n24\n00:08:41,312 --> 00:09:09,181\n我們有方案還不至於成為版本因為最後還要細修但是你要等到復議之後你才提出來依照你剛剛的說法你是這樣子復議之後重新來審視的時候我們就加快把它形成所以院長你這個說法我們就覺得我們對立法委員非常的不尊重既然要提復議你又不願意在復議之前跟我們所有的國會的立法委員復議之後我們當然要做這樣的努力把你的版本提出來讓大家來檢視\n\n25\n00:09:11,184 --> 00:09:32,090\n來做充分的跟每位委員做充分的溝通跟協調行政院是這樣子來跟立法院溝通的嗎對你方案那麼多為什麼沒有辦法跟立法委員做充分的溝通到現在我們今天要做成復議的決定了你還不知道行政院的版本是什麼\n\n26\n00:09:33,010 --> 00:09:49,264\n今天討論是不一樣我們是針對現行修法過得不一樣當然有一個前提啊院長如果不知道您現在提出來的版本是不是會優於我們現在修法的版本我們如何來決定我要投這個票我們先提出的是目前自在難行之處\n\n27\n00:09:50,424 --> 00:10:19,066\n我們就會針對這些方式來做修正的方式這個很難說服我們我想我要很理性的告訴你我們要的就很明確的告訴你把行政院的版本提出來我們是可以跟你來做溝通的跟委員說明一下在3月6號的會議我們已經把水平分配的相關的指標跟權重還有調整係數非常具體的提出來了這個就是未來水平分配可以依據的一個方向\n\n28\n00:10:19,777 --> 00:10:41,433\n讓大家來討論這個就已經非常具體了那至於其他的譬如說我們也告訴他我們的修法的方向就是擴大中央統籌分配稅款的規模而且要可以提升地方的財政自主這個部分這個就是垂直分配我們也提出來而且會優先彌補地方財政收支一個差短而且保障既有的一個財源\n\n29\n00:10:42,433 --> 00:11:08,398\n這是非常具體的一個方向的這個幾乎只是說我們把這個方向認定以後接下來只是落入文字這是先把方向確認了以後落入文字其實只是後續的工作所以基本上我們是有方案的有方案但是我還是要回到我剛才一再而三的提醒院長為什麼不請財政部在利用富裕的前夕\n\n30\n00:11:09,398 --> 00:11:36,965\n利用我們在整個修會有這麼長的一個時間充分的跟國會來做溝通跟協調來討論然後再決定說我們要怎麼樣我們不管是我們在野黨國民黨也好民眾黨也好我們充分溝通討論大家再來決定說您提出了復議案我們是不是要做相關的一個做出最後同意或者不同意這樣的一個決定所以我要很遺憾的告訴你到目前看不到版本\n\n31\n00:11:37,665 --> 00:11:47,001\n我真的很難去投下同意您的複議票我這樣要告訴你好我們來看一下我關心我自己的新竹縣市我也要告訴院長\n\n32\n00:11:48,171 --> 00:12:08,753\n那新竹縣市在這次2025年我看到的一個我們族記書的一個國庫還有我們國庫署的一個統計表新竹縣這次的如果2025可以分配它的統籌分配稅款大概只有69.2億新竹市是83.97億\n\n33\n00:12:12,093 --> 00:12:33,301\n那這個在我們六都以外十六縣市中新竹縣市的排名新竹縣市排名第九新竹市是排名第五如果我們再加上一般性的補助款新竹縣調到第十一名新竹市調到第十二名反而是更往後\n\n34\n00:12:34,221 --> 00:12:56,275\n也就是說新竹縣市長期以來在稅收的上繳金額都是名列前茅但總數以及人均獲得的統籌分配稅款卻一直都是在後段班這對新竹縣市來講根本是非常不平等的待遇那麼在這一次的修法之後統籌分配稅款\n\n35\n00:12:57,196 --> 00:13:21,048\n各可以分配到185億以及210億均大幅增加了110億以上我想這個對於我們未來新竹縣市大新竹縣市的交通建設教育建設橋樑建設以及河川治理等各種必要的公共建設我們都有自主裁員可以運用所以院長\n\n36\n00:13:22,270 --> 00:13:51,394\n在這種情況之下您認為本席會支持您的救治嗎每個委員都有選區以自己的選區為重當然我們都理解院長我只是一個比喻而已我想告訴你就是說對於我們各個縣市而言我想其實我們總表其實我們都已經有很多委員在諮詢的時候也有提出來各個縣市都是大幅增加的\n\n37\n00:13:52,475 --> 00:14:17,074\n所以財化法的修正對於落實地方自治它是有很大的一個注意所以在這種情況之下延宕了25年的財化法不修現在終於刪除通過有了一個版本這個版本今天的經濟日報的社論也寫得非常清楚非常的合理當然站在行政院財政部您有您的立場\n\n38\n00:14:18,226 --> 00:14:38,999\n但是我們看了整個綜合整個這些各家的媒體的一個報導是認為此次的修正是非常的合理的所以對於這種合理的修法版本行政院到目前您還沒有辦法說服我們說您有更好的版本提出來所以您在復議的前夕告訴我說我要同意你的復議\n\n39\n00:14:40,660 --> 00:14:45,865\n院長這對於我們縣市的立法委員真的是投不下這個票啦真的是對我們來講對地方藝術那麼多的財政收入你勸\n\n40\n00:14:58,717 --> 00:15:25,979\n合理的弱化整個國家的整體建設跟國防力量就是這樣但是您為什麼不提出版本呢這個就是我最大的疑惑已經那麼久了到復議前夕你再跟我講你方案準備好了這是什麼邏輯啊這個方案我們在12月2號表決之前就是有了你如何說服國會的立法委員啊我真的是很中肯的告訴行政院很多事情真的要提早做溝通啦而不是等到事情燒到火了你才跟我們講我有版本\n\n41\n00:15:33,587 --> 00:15:38,538\n好,謝謝林委員,謝謝卓院長下一位請賴瑞榮委員詢問\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8314\t13757\t好 謝謝副院長我們請行政院卓院長請卓院長答詢林委員好卓院長好院長我首先還是直求對決請問你到底支不支持財政收支劃分法的修正\n33109\t56943\t修正你支不支持這一次的就是財政收支劃分法要修你贊不贊成我剛說過雖然逐年來我們對地方的挹注比較多但是討論如何讓地方財政能夠更有自主在合理的討論下我們都歡迎我們也都願意積極的參與這樣的討論甚至我們也有一個想法好所以你是這就是你贊成修法嗎你是認為要修的\n58001\t75139\t因為各地都有這樣聲音我們不能去背著大家的意志但是一定要合理的去討論所以你認為要合理討論來修法但是截至目前為止行政院的版本到底完成了沒有我們有很多的方案\n76501\t96496\t我已經報告過這個方案在12月24號表決之前我們都希望能夠有機會來這裡透過黨團協商來談但是那個禮拜大院發生了一些比較秩序上的問題所以一直沒有辦法有效的展開各種的協商這也是我覺得非常遺憾的地方院長我們來看一下在本屆第一會期開始\n98823\t124182\t在我們財政委員會總共就有我們藍綠白等委員總共提案了26個財政收支劃分法修法的一個版本那麼在討論的過程中我想部長也非常了解大家一直在等待的就是行政院的版本也就是剛才院長講的所謂的行政院的方案那麼最後\n125506\t142051\t我們在財政委員會也從善如流包含本席在內我們連署了一個臨時提案那麼臨時提案的內容就是要求財政部在第二會期開議前提出願板請問為何一直沒有提出來\n144352\t158833\t財政部一直很努力在就這個法案的內容在做精算但是更重要比較難的工作是跟各地方政府做更好的溝通這個工作一直在進行這不是一朝一夕可以完成的好\n160170\t179464\t院長當然也給你們很衝突的時間部長您也講一下為什麼一直沒有提出來跟委員報告財政收支劃分法其實除了跟中央跟地方的權責劃分還有地方跟地方之間的一個如何的分配我們一直認為說我們應該要充分的溝通\n179884\t195830\t得到最大的共識所以我們事實上從113年的年初開始請各地方政府對於分配的指標提出意見總共有80幾個指標那財政部一直不斷的跟地方政府在溝通最後也有一個初步的共識在指標的部分我們就把它濃縮了\n196710\t205676\t只有三個有爭議接下來是有關各個指標的權重要怎麼分配以及指標裡面要不要更細緻的去做調整係數我們認為都應該要詳細的規劃審慎的一個進行所以上次財委會要求我們在\n213821\t239939\t上個會期能夠提出草案事實上我們在當時也一直很說明說我們認為財化法固然可以修正但是不要倉促的修正我們應該要好好的討論有一個共識過去25年為什麼沒有能夠修法完整就是沒有共識所以我覺得這個部分不需要去這麼倉促那3月6號我們也在開會所以努力是一直在做說明的我也贊同您的說法就是說當然要\n240880\t267750\t去很仔細的再去做這個相關的一個研究但是我比較好奇的說現在要復翼囉現在在復翼的前夕了馬上就要復翼囉現在院長我剛才聽到您從早上到現在您答覆幾位我們委員的這個諮詢你都一直要求說請求委員支持本次行政院的復翼讓行政院可以提出版本\n269451\t298085\t但是行政院截至目前為止有提供任何的版本給我們立法委員來做一個相關的一個參考或審議嗎到復議的前夕你有提出版本來嗎時間已經那麼久了我贊成剛才部長你講的喔充分的去讓你們有時間去做跟地方政府來做相關的一個研擬但時間已經那麼久一年多了耶所以政府的誠信在哪裡可以這樣一言再言一拖再拖嗎\n299212\t320555\t委員我必須說我們在總統召開院計協商之前我們跟立法院也有相當的接觸我就不講什麼方式那時候我們提出說在今年那個是去年的事情在今年的六月我們會提出一個版本後來在協商的一兩天當中希望我們在上個會期結束之前提出版本我也答應了\n321596\t345148\t我也答應了這個無需求證我也答應了但是12月20號就發生了表決的事情後來就沒辦法進行院長您剛才提到我也有參與所以我也了解您剛才說的所以我現在很遺憾的是說到現在馬上要復議了但是您說您也答應了在年底就要提出版本到現在都沒有看到版本\n346304\t371209\t這到底行政院是到底是有方案還是沒有方案你到底準備好了沒有如果到那時候所說的在今年的六月或是下半年我們提出一個完整的版本那時間上是更充裕如果在上個會期那提出的版本就是提出一個可以被討論的版本那內容可能還要大大的調整在目前為止我們就希望利用這段時間財政部也在不久前3月6號吧\n372029\t393811\t跟地方政府做了幾次的溝通把問題漸漸的收斂下來那目前這個工作還在進行所以現在還在進行所以到現在為止你都沒有版本你的方案還是沒有出來有幾個方案所謂的行政院版本一定要經過院會我們有幾個方案這個方案如果跟地方溝通大家取得共識我們就會循程序成為行政院的版本\n394171\t422163\t或者再經過立法院的朝野協商讓它成為一個大家的共識所以院長我也贊同你這樣的說法你也希望趕快提出版本嘛對不對所以你認為就是你看一開始也回答我你認為還是要做相關合理的一個修正嘛我們是一致的但是院長我看在去年的10月15號我們看一段影片您答覆在我們本院答覆委員的一個質詢來 放影片\n423049\t442748\t沒有版本 現行的版本我一直強調現在是最好的版本我們看不到更好的版本所以院長您當時回答您的服務員 現在的版本就是最好的版本我一直說是執行起來最有把握的版本在今天要復印以前\n444702\t459869\t您就跟我們講說您的版本您有在準備一直在找各個部會財政部找各縣市甚至在3月6號您也找各縣市來做相關的一個討論所以截至目前為止都看不到版本\n460729\t487395\t所以您的意見是不是剛才你又打臉你自己了你根本就是認為現行的版本就是最好的版本現行應該只有一個版本啦我是認為它執行起來是最有把握的但是如果要來調整如果經過合理的這個大家的商量溝通我們很多的方式都在裡面院長我最後這個再給你一次機會請你誠實的告訴國人現在到底行政院的版本已經準備好了沒有\n488670\t490324\t沒有的話我們如何跟地方談呢\n491809\t520251\t所以準備好了有方案有方案那為什麼今天沒有辦法提出給我們本院來做一個審議今天不是在協商這個方案我們今天希望透過賦予的方式讓大家回到現狀我們再把我們的版本跟地方再溝通更好之後提出來一個那如果理想就是朝野各黨團能夠形成一個共識那這個就是立法院跟行政院共同的一個版本你已經準備好了你也有版本是\n521312\t549181\t我們有方案還不至於成為版本因為最後還要細修但是你要等到復議之後你才提出來依照你剛剛的說法你是這樣子復議之後重新來審視的時候我們就加快把它形成所以院長你這個說法我們就覺得我們對立法委員非常的不尊重既然要提復議你又不願意在復議之前跟我們所有的國會的立法委員復議之後我們當然要做這樣的努力把你的版本提出來讓大家來檢視\n551184\t572090\t來做充分的跟每位委員做充分的溝通跟協調行政院是這樣子來跟立法院溝通的嗎對你方案那麼多為什麼沒有辦法跟立法委員做充分的溝通到現在我們今天要做成復議的決定了你還不知道行政院的版本是什麼\n573010\t589264\t今天討論是不一樣我們是針對現行修法過得不一樣當然有一個前提啊 院長如果不知道您現在提出來的版本是不是會優於我們現在修法的版本我們如何來決定我要投這個票我們先提出的是目前自在難行之處\n590424\t619066\t我們就會針對這些方式來做修正的方式這個很難說服我們我想我要很理性的告訴你我們要的就很明確的告訴你把行政院的版本提出來我們是可以跟你來做溝通的跟委員說明一下在3月6號的會議我們已經把水平分配的相關的指標跟權重還有調整係數非常具體的提出來了這個就是未來水平分配可以依據的一個方向\n619777\t641433\t讓大家來討論這個就已經非常具體了那至於其他的譬如說我們也告訴他我們的修法的方向就是擴大中央統籌分配稅款的規模而且要可以提升地方的財政自主這個部分這個就是垂直分配我們也提出來而且會優先彌補地方財政收支一個差短而且保障既有的一個財源\n642433\t668398\t這是非常具體的一個方向的這個幾乎只是說我們把這個方向認定以後接下來只是落入文字這是先把方向確認了以後落入文字其實只是後續的工作所以基本上我們是有方案的有方案但是我還是要回到我剛才一再而三的提醒院長為什麼不請財政部在利用富裕的前夕\n669398\t696965\t利用我們在整個修會有這麼長的一個時間充分的跟國會來做溝通跟協調來討論然後再決定說我們要怎麼樣我們不管是我們在野黨國民黨也好民眾黨也好我們充分溝通討論大家再來決定說您提出了復議案我們是不是要做相關的一個做出最後同意或者不同意這樣的一個決定所以我要很遺憾的告訴你到目前看不到版本\n697665\t707001\t我真的很難去投下同意您的複議票我這樣要告訴你好 我們來看一下我關心我自己的新竹縣市我也要告訴院長\n708171\t728753\t那新竹縣市在這次2025年我看到的一個我們族記書的一個國庫還有我們國庫署的一個統計表新竹縣這次的如果2025可以分配它的統籌分配稅款大概只有69.2億新竹市是83.97億\n732093\t753301\t那這個在我們六都以外十六縣市中新竹縣市的排名新竹縣市排名第九新竹市是排名第五如果我們再加上一般性的補助款新竹縣調到第十一名新竹市調到第十二名反而是更往後\n754221\t776275\t也就是說新竹縣市長期以來在稅收的上繳金額都是名列前茅但總數以及人均獲得的統籌分配稅款卻一直都是在後段班這對新竹縣市來講根本是非常不平等的待遇那麼在這一次的修法之後統籌分配稅款\n777196\t801048\t各可以分配到185億以及210億均大幅增加了110億以上我想這個對於我們未來新竹縣市大新竹縣市的交通建設教育建設橋樑建設以及河川治理等各種必要的公共建設我們都有自主裁員可以運用所以院長\n802270\t831394\t在這種情況之下您認為本席會支持您的救治嗎每個委員都有選區以自己的選區為重當然我們都理解院長我只是一個比喻而已我想告訴你就是說對於我們各個縣市而言我想其實我們總表其實我們都已經有很多委員在諮詢的時候也有提出來各個縣市都是大幅增加的\n832475\t857074\t所以財化法的修正對於落實地方自治它是有很大的一個注意所以在這種情況之下延宕了25年的財化法不修現在終於刪除通過有了一個版本這個版本今天的經濟日報的社論也寫得非常清楚非常的合理當然站在行政院財政部您有您的立場\n858226\t878999\t但是我們看了整個綜合整個這些各家的媒體的一個報導是認為此次的修正是非常的合理的所以對於這種合理的修法版本行政院到目前您還沒有辦法說服我們說您有更好的版本提出來所以您在復議的前夕告訴我說我要同意你的復議\n880660\t885865\t院長這對於我們縣市的立法委員真的是投不下這個票啦真的是對我們來講對地方藝術那麼多的財政收入你勸\n898717\t925979\t合理的弱化整個國家的整體建設跟國防力量就是這樣但是您為什麼不提出版本呢這個就是我最大的疑惑已經那麼久了到復議前夕你再跟我講你方案準備好了這是什麼邏輯啊這個方案我們在12月2號表決之前就是有了你如何說服國會的立法委員啊我真的是很中肯的告訴行政院很多事情真的要提早做溝通啦而不是等到事情燒到火了你才跟我們講我有版本\n933587\t938538\t好,謝謝林委員,謝謝卓院長下一位請賴瑞榮委員詢問\n","txt":"好 謝謝副院長我們請行政院卓院長請卓院長答詢林委員好卓院長好院長我首先還是直求對決請問你到底支不支持財政收支劃分法的修正\n修正你支不支持這一次的就是財政收支劃分法要修你贊不贊成我剛說過雖然逐年來我們對地方的挹注比較多但是討論如何讓地方財政能夠更有自主在合理的討論下我們都歡迎我們也都願意積極的參與這樣的討論甚至我們也有一個想法好所以你是這就是你贊成修法嗎你是認為要修的\n因為各地都有這樣聲音我們不能去背著大家的意志但是一定要合理的去討論所以你認為要合理討論來修法但是截至目前為止行政院的版本到底完成了沒有我們有很多的方案\n我已經報告過這個方案在12月24號表決之前我們都希望能夠有機會來這裡透過黨團協商來談但是那個禮拜大院發生了一些比較秩序上的問題所以一直沒有辦法有效的展開各種的協商這也是我覺得非常遺憾的地方院長我們來看一下在本屆第一會期開始\n在我們財政委員會總共就有我們藍綠白等委員總共提案了26個財政收支劃分法修法的一個版本那麼在討論的過程中我想部長也非常了解大家一直在等待的就是行政院的版本也就是剛才院長講的所謂的行政院的方案那麼最後\n我們在財政委員會也從善如流包含本席在內我們連署了一個臨時提案那麼臨時提案的內容就是要求財政部在第二會期開議前提出願板請問為何一直沒有提出來\n財政部一直很努力在就這個法案的內容在做精算但是更重要比較難的工作是跟各地方政府做更好的溝通這個工作一直在進行這不是一朝一夕可以完成的好\n院長當然也給你們很衝突的時間部長您也講一下為什麼一直沒有提出來跟委員報告財政收支劃分法其實除了跟中央跟地方的權責劃分還有地方跟地方之間的一個如何的分配我們一直認為說我們應該要充分的溝通\n得到最大的共識所以我們事實上從113年的年初開始請各地方政府對於分配的指標提出意見總共有80幾個指標那財政部一直不斷的跟地方政府在溝通最後也有一個初步的共識在指標的部分我們就把它濃縮了\n只有三個有爭議接下來是有關各個指標的權重要怎麼分配以及指標裡面要不要更細緻的去做調整係數我們認為都應該要詳細的規劃審慎的一個進行所以上次財委會要求我們在\n上個會期能夠提出草案事實上我們在當時也一直很說明說我們認為財化法固然可以修正但是不要倉促的修正我們應該要好好的討論有一個共識過去25年為什麼沒有能夠修法完整就是沒有共識所以我覺得這個部分不需要去這麼倉促那3月6號我們也在開會所以努力是一直在做說明的我也贊同您的說法就是說當然要\n去很仔細的再去做這個相關的一個研究但是我比較好奇的說現在要復翼囉現在在復翼的前夕了馬上就要復翼囉現在院長我剛才聽到您從早上到現在您答覆幾位我們委員的這個諮詢你都一直要求說請求委員支持本次行政院的復翼讓行政院可以提出版本\n但是行政院截至目前為止有提供任何的版本給我們立法委員來做一個相關的一個參考或審議嗎到復議的前夕你有提出版本來嗎時間已經那麼久了我贊成剛才部長你講的喔充分的去讓你們有時間去做跟地方政府來做相關的一個研擬但時間已經那麼久一年多了耶所以政府的誠信在哪裡可以這樣一言再言一拖再拖嗎\n委員我必須說我們在總統召開院計協商之前我們跟立法院也有相當的接觸我就不講什麼方式那時候我們提出說在今年那個是去年的事情在今年的六月我們會提出一個版本後來在協商的一兩天當中希望我們在上個會期結束之前提出版本我也答應了\n我也答應了這個無需求證我也答應了但是12月20號就發生了表決的事情後來就沒辦法進行院長您剛才提到我也有參與所以我也了解您剛才說的所以我現在很遺憾的是說到現在馬上要復議了但是您說您也答應了在年底就要提出版本到現在都沒有看到版本\n這到底行政院是到底是有方案還是沒有方案你到底準備好了沒有如果到那時候所說的在今年的六月或是下半年我們提出一個完整的版本那時間上是更充裕如果在上個會期那提出的版本就是提出一個可以被討論的版本那內容可能還要大大的調整在目前為止我們就希望利用這段時間財政部也在不久前3月6號吧\n跟地方政府做了幾次的溝通把問題漸漸的收斂下來那目前這個工作還在進行所以現在還在進行所以到現在為止你都沒有版本你的方案還是沒有出來有幾個方案所謂的行政院版本一定要經過院會我們有幾個方案這個方案如果跟地方溝通大家取得共識我們就會循程序成為行政院的版本\n或者再經過立法院的朝野協商讓它成為一個大家的共識所以院長我也贊同你這樣的說法你也希望趕快提出版本嘛對不對所以你認為就是你看一開始也回答我你認為還是要做相關合理的一個修正嘛我們是一致的但是院長我看在去年的10月15號我們看一段影片您答覆在我們本院答覆委員的一個質詢來 放影片\n沒有版本 現行的版本我一直強調現在是最好的版本我們看不到更好的版本所以院長您當時回答您的服務員 現在的版本就是最好的版本我一直說是執行起來最有把握的版本在今天要復印以前\n您就跟我們講說您的版本您有在準備一直在找各個部會財政部找各縣市甚至在3月6號您也找各縣市來做相關的一個討論所以截至目前為止都看不到版本\n所以您的意見是不是剛才你又打臉你自己了你根本就是認為現行的版本就是最好的版本現行應該只有一個版本啦我是認為它執行起來是最有把握的但是如果要來調整如果經過合理的這個大家的商量溝通我們很多的方式都在裡面院長我最後這個再給你一次機會請你誠實的告訴國人現在到底行政院的版本已經準備好了沒有\n沒有的話我們如何跟地方談呢\n所以準備好了有方案有方案那為什麼今天沒有辦法提出給我們本院來做一個審議今天不是在協商這個方案我們今天希望透過賦予的方式讓大家回到現狀我們再把我們的版本跟地方再溝通更好之後提出來一個那如果理想就是朝野各黨團能夠形成一個共識那這個就是立法院跟行政院共同的一個版本你已經準備好了你也有版本是\n我們有方案還不至於成為版本因為最後還要細修但是你要等到復議之後你才提出來依照你剛剛的說法你是這樣子復議之後重新來審視的時候我們就加快把它形成所以院長你這個說法我們就覺得我們對立法委員非常的不尊重既然要提復議你又不願意在復議之前跟我們所有的國會的立法委員復議之後我們當然要做這樣的努力把你的版本提出來讓大家來檢視\n來做充分的跟每位委員做充分的溝通跟協調行政院是這樣子來跟立法院溝通的嗎對你方案那麼多為什麼沒有辦法跟立法委員做充分的溝通到現在我們今天要做成復議的決定了你還不知道行政院的版本是什麼\n今天討論是不一樣我們是針對現行修法過得不一樣當然有一個前提啊 院長如果不知道您現在提出來的版本是不是會優於我們現在修法的版本我們如何來決定我要投這個票我們先提出的是目前自在難行之處\n我們就會針對這些方式來做修正的方式這個很難說服我們我想我要很理性的告訴你我們要的就很明確的告訴你把行政院的版本提出來我們是可以跟你來做溝通的跟委員說明一下在3月6號的會議我們已經把水平分配的相關的指標跟權重還有調整係數非常具體的提出來了這個就是未來水平分配可以依據的一個方向\n讓大家來討論這個就已經非常具體了那至於其他的譬如說我們也告訴他我們的修法的方向就是擴大中央統籌分配稅款的規模而且要可以提升地方的財政自主這個部分這個就是垂直分配我們也提出來而且會優先彌補地方財政收支一個差短而且保障既有的一個財源\n這是非常具體的一個方向的這個幾乎只是說我們把這個方向認定以後接下來只是落入文字這是先把方向確認了以後落入文字其實只是後續的工作所以基本上我們是有方案的有方案但是我還是要回到我剛才一再而三的提醒院長為什麼不請財政部在利用富裕的前夕\n利用我們在整個修會有這麼長的一個時間充分的跟國會來做溝通跟協調來討論然後再決定說我們要怎麼樣我們不管是我們在野黨國民黨也好民眾黨也好我們充分溝通討論大家再來決定說您提出了復議案我們是不是要做相關的一個做出最後同意或者不同意這樣的一個決定所以我要很遺憾的告訴你到目前看不到版本\n我真的很難去投下同意您的複議票我這樣要告訴你好 我們來看一下我關心我自己的新竹縣市我也要告訴院長\n那新竹縣市在這次2025年我看到的一個我們族記書的一個國庫還有我們國庫署的一個統計表新竹縣這次的如果2025可以分配它的統籌分配稅款大概只有69.2億新竹市是83.97億\n那這個在我們六都以外十六縣市中新竹縣市的排名新竹縣市排名第九新竹市是排名第五如果我們再加上一般性的補助款新竹縣調到第十一名新竹市調到第十二名反而是更往後\n也就是說新竹縣市長期以來在稅收的上繳金額都是名列前茅但總數以及人均獲得的統籌分配稅款卻一直都是在後段班這對新竹縣市來講根本是非常不平等的待遇那麼在這一次的修法之後統籌分配稅款\n各可以分配到185億以及210億均大幅增加了110億以上我想這個對於我們未來新竹縣市大新竹縣市的交通建設教育建設橋樑建設以及河川治理等各種必要的公共建設我們都有自主裁員可以運用所以院長\n在這種情況之下您認為本席會支持您的救治嗎每個委員都有選區以自己的選區為重當然我們都理解院長我只是一個比喻而已我想告訴你就是說對於我們各個縣市而言我想其實我們總表其實我們都已經有很多委員在諮詢的時候也有提出來各個縣市都是大幅增加的\n所以財化法的修正對於落實地方自治它是有很大的一個注意所以在這種情況之下延宕了25年的財化法不修現在終於刪除通過有了一個版本這個版本今天的經濟日報的社論也寫得非常清楚非常的合理當然站在行政院財政部您有您的立場\n但是我們看了整個綜合整個這些各家的媒體的一個報導是認為此次的修正是非常的合理的所以對於這種合理的修法版本行政院到目前您還沒有辦法說服我們說您有更好的版本提出來所以您在復議的前夕告訴我說我要同意你的復議\n院長這對於我們縣市的立法委員真的是投不下這個票啦真的是對我們來講對地方藝術那麼多的財政收入你勸\n合理的弱化整個國家的整體建設跟國防力量就是這樣但是您為什麼不提出版本呢這個就是我最大的疑惑已經那麼久了到復議前夕你再跟我講你方案準備好了這是什麼邏輯啊這個方案我們在12月2號表決之前就是有了你如何說服國會的立法委員啊我真的是很中肯的告訴行政院很多事情真的要提早做溝通啦而不是等到事情燒到火了你才跟我們講我有版本\n好,謝謝林委員,謝謝卓院長下一位請賴瑞榮委員詢問\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.314 --> 00:13.757\n好謝謝副院長我們請行政院卓院長請卓院長答詢林委員好卓院長好院長我首先還是直求對決請問你到底支不支持財政收支劃分法的修正\n\n00:33.109 --> 00:56.943\n修正你支不支持這一次的就是財政收支劃分法要修你贊不贊成我剛說過雖然逐年來我們對地方的挹注比較多但是討論如何讓地方財政能夠更有自主在合理的討論下我們都歡迎我們也都願意積極的參與這樣的討論甚至我們也有一個想法好所以你是這就是你贊成修法嗎你是認為要修的\n\n00:58.001 --> 01:15.139\n因為各地都有這樣聲音我們不能去背著大家的意志但是一定要合理的去討論所以你認為要合理討論來修法但是截至目前為止行政院的版本到底完成了沒有我們有很多的方案\n\n01:16.501 --> 01:36.496\n我已經報告過這個方案在12月24號表決之前我們都希望能夠有機會來這裡透過黨團協商來談但是那個禮拜大院發生了一些比較秩序上的問題所以一直沒有辦法有效的展開各種的協商這也是我覺得非常遺憾的地方院長我們來看一下在本屆第一會期開始\n\n01:38.823 --> 02:04.182\n在我們財政委員會總共就有我們藍綠白等委員總共提案了26個財政收支劃分法修法的一個版本那麼在討論的過程中我想部長也非常了解大家一直在等待的就是行政院的版本也就是剛才院長講的所謂的行政院的方案那麼最後\n\n02:05.506 --> 02:22.051\n我們在財政委員會也從善如流包含本席在內我們連署了一個臨時提案那麼臨時提案的內容就是要求財政部在第二會期開議前提出願板請問為何一直沒有提出來\n\n02:24.352 --> 02:38.833\n財政部一直很努力在就這個法案的內容在做精算但是更重要比較難的工作是跟各地方政府做更好的溝通這個工作一直在進行這不是一朝一夕可以完成的好\n\n02:40.170 --> 02:59.464\n院長當然也給你們很衝突的時間部長您也講一下為什麼一直沒有提出來跟委員報告財政收支劃分法其實除了跟中央跟地方的權責劃分還有地方跟地方之間的一個如何的分配我們一直認為說我們應該要充分的溝通\n\n02:59.884 --> 03:15.830\n得到最大的共識所以我們事實上從113年的年初開始請各地方政府對於分配的指標提出意見總共有80幾個指標那財政部一直不斷的跟地方政府在溝通最後也有一個初步的共識在指標的部分我們就把它濃縮了\n\n03:16.710 --> 03:25.676\n只有三個有爭議接下來是有關各個指標的權重要怎麼分配以及指標裡面要不要更細緻的去做調整係數我們認為都應該要詳細的規劃審慎的一個進行所以上次財委會要求我們在\n\n03:33.821 --> 03:59.939\n上個會期能夠提出草案事實上我們在當時也一直很說明說我們認為財化法固然可以修正但是不要倉促的修正我們應該要好好的討論有一個共識過去25年為什麼沒有能夠修法完整就是沒有共識所以我覺得這個部分不需要去這麼倉促那3月6號我們也在開會所以努力是一直在做說明的我也贊同您的說法就是說當然要\n\n04:00.880 --> 04:27.750\n去很仔細的再去做這個相關的一個研究但是我比較好奇的說現在要復翼囉現在在復翼的前夕了馬上就要復翼囉現在院長我剛才聽到您從早上到現在您答覆幾位我們委員的這個諮詢你都一直要求說請求委員支持本次行政院的復翼讓行政院可以提出版本\n\n04:29.451 --> 04:58.085\n但是行政院截至目前為止有提供任何的版本給我們立法委員來做一個相關的一個參考或審議嗎到復議的前夕你有提出版本來嗎時間已經那麼久了我贊成剛才部長你講的喔充分的去讓你們有時間去做跟地方政府來做相關的一個研擬但時間已經那麼久一年多了耶所以政府的誠信在哪裡可以這樣一言再言一拖再拖嗎\n\n04:59.212 --> 05:20.555\n委員我必須說我們在總統召開院計協商之前我們跟立法院也有相當的接觸我就不講什麼方式那時候我們提出說在今年那個是去年的事情在今年的六月我們會提出一個版本後來在協商的一兩天當中希望我們在上個會期結束之前提出版本我也答應了\n\n05:21.596 --> 05:45.148\n我也答應了這個無需求證我也答應了但是12月20號就發生了表決的事情後來就沒辦法進行院長您剛才提到我也有參與所以我也了解您剛才說的所以我現在很遺憾的是說到現在馬上要復議了但是您說您也答應了在年底就要提出版本到現在都沒有看到版本\n\n05:46.304 --> 06:11.209\n這到底行政院是到底是有方案還是沒有方案你到底準備好了沒有如果到那時候所說的在今年的六月或是下半年我們提出一個完整的版本那時間上是更充裕如果在上個會期那提出的版本就是提出一個可以被討論的版本那內容可能還要大大的調整在目前為止我們就希望利用這段時間財政部也在不久前3月6號吧\n\n06:12.029 --> 06:33.811\n跟地方政府做了幾次的溝通把問題漸漸的收斂下來那目前這個工作還在進行所以現在還在進行所以到現在為止你都沒有版本你的方案還是沒有出來有幾個方案所謂的行政院版本一定要經過院會我們有幾個方案這個方案如果跟地方溝通大家取得共識我們就會循程序成為行政院的版本\n\n06:34.171 --> 07:02.163\n或者再經過立法院的朝野協商讓它成為一個大家的共識所以院長我也贊同你這樣的說法你也希望趕快提出版本嘛對不對所以你認為就是你看一開始也回答我你認為還是要做相關合理的一個修正嘛我們是一致的但是院長我看在去年的10月15號我們看一段影片您答覆在我們本院答覆委員的一個質詢來放影片\n\n07:03.049 --> 07:22.748\n沒有版本現行的版本我一直強調現在是最好的版本我們看不到更好的版本所以院長您當時回答您的服務員現在的版本就是最好的版本我一直說是執行起來最有把握的版本在今天要復印以前\n\n07:24.702 --> 07:39.869\n您就跟我們講說您的版本您有在準備一直在找各個部會財政部找各縣市甚至在3月6號您也找各縣市來做相關的一個討論所以截至目前為止都看不到版本\n\n07:40.729 --> 08:07.395\n所以您的意見是不是剛才你又打臉你自己了你根本就是認為現行的版本就是最好的版本現行應該只有一個版本啦我是認為它執行起來是最有把握的但是如果要來調整如果經過合理的這個大家的商量溝通我們很多的方式都在裡面院長我最後這個再給你一次機會請你誠實的告訴國人現在到底行政院的版本已經準備好了沒有\n\n08:08.670 --> 08:10.324\n沒有的話我們如何跟地方談呢\n\n08:11.809 --> 08:40.251\n所以準備好了有方案有方案那為什麼今天沒有辦法提出給我們本院來做一個審議今天不是在協商這個方案我們今天希望透過賦予的方式讓大家回到現狀我們再把我們的版本跟地方再溝通更好之後提出來一個那如果理想就是朝野各黨團能夠形成一個共識那這個就是立法院跟行政院共同的一個版本你已經準備好了你也有版本是\n\n08:41.312 --> 09:09.181\n我們有方案還不至於成為版本因為最後還要細修但是你要等到復議之後你才提出來依照你剛剛的說法你是這樣子復議之後重新來審視的時候我們就加快把它形成所以院長你這個說法我們就覺得我們對立法委員非常的不尊重既然要提復議你又不願意在復議之前跟我們所有的國會的立法委員復議之後我們當然要做這樣的努力把你的版本提出來讓大家來檢視\n\n09:11.184 --> 09:32.090\n來做充分的跟每位委員做充分的溝通跟協調行政院是這樣子來跟立法院溝通的嗎對你方案那麼多為什麼沒有辦法跟立法委員做充分的溝通到現在我們今天要做成復議的決定了你還不知道行政院的版本是什麼\n\n09:33.010 --> 09:49.264\n今天討論是不一樣我們是針對現行修法過得不一樣當然有一個前提啊院長如果不知道您現在提出來的版本是不是會優於我們現在修法的版本我們如何來決定我要投這個票我們先提出的是目前自在難行之處\n\n09:50.424 --> 10:19.066\n我們就會針對這些方式來做修正的方式這個很難說服我們我想我要很理性的告訴你我們要的就很明確的告訴你把行政院的版本提出來我們是可以跟你來做溝通的跟委員說明一下在3月6號的會議我們已經把水平分配的相關的指標跟權重還有調整係數非常具體的提出來了這個就是未來水平分配可以依據的一個方向\n\n10:19.777 --> 10:41.433\n讓大家來討論這個就已經非常具體了那至於其他的譬如說我們也告訴他我們的修法的方向就是擴大中央統籌分配稅款的規模而且要可以提升地方的財政自主這個部分這個就是垂直分配我們也提出來而且會優先彌補地方財政收支一個差短而且保障既有的一個財源\n\n10:42.433 --> 11:08.398\n這是非常具體的一個方向的這個幾乎只是說我們把這個方向認定以後接下來只是落入文字這是先把方向確認了以後落入文字其實只是後續的工作所以基本上我們是有方案的有方案但是我還是要回到我剛才一再而三的提醒院長為什麼不請財政部在利用富裕的前夕\n\n11:09.398 --> 11:36.965\n利用我們在整個修會有這麼長的一個時間充分的跟國會來做溝通跟協調來討論然後再決定說我們要怎麼樣我們不管是我們在野黨國民黨也好民眾黨也好我們充分溝通討論大家再來決定說您提出了復議案我們是不是要做相關的一個做出最後同意或者不同意這樣的一個決定所以我要很遺憾的告訴你到目前看不到版本\n\n11:37.665 --> 11:47.001\n我真的很難去投下同意您的複議票我這樣要告訴你好我們來看一下我關心我自己的新竹縣市我也要告訴院長\n\n11:48.171 --> 12:08.753\n那新竹縣市在這次2025年我看到的一個我們族記書的一個國庫還有我們國庫署的一個統計表新竹縣這次的如果2025可以分配它的統籌分配稅款大概只有69.2億新竹市是83.97億\n\n12:12.093 --> 12:33.301\n那這個在我們六都以外十六縣市中新竹縣市的排名新竹縣市排名第九新竹市是排名第五如果我們再加上一般性的補助款新竹縣調到第十一名新竹市調到第十二名反而是更往後\n\n12:34.221 --> 12:56.275\n也就是說新竹縣市長期以來在稅收的上繳金額都是名列前茅但總數以及人均獲得的統籌分配稅款卻一直都是在後段班這對新竹縣市來講根本是非常不平等的待遇那麼在這一次的修法之後統籌分配稅款\n\n12:57.196 --> 13:21.048\n各可以分配到185億以及210億均大幅增加了110億以上我想這個對於我們未來新竹縣市大新竹縣市的交通建設教育建設橋樑建設以及河川治理等各種必要的公共建設我們都有自主裁員可以運用所以院長\n\n13:22.270 --> 13:51.394\n在這種情況之下您認為本席會支持您的救治嗎每個委員都有選區以自己的選區為重當然我們都理解院長我只是一個比喻而已我想告訴你就是說對於我們各個縣市而言我想其實我們總表其實我們都已經有很多委員在諮詢的時候也有提出來各個縣市都是大幅增加的\n\n13:52.475 --> 14:17.074\n所以財化法的修正對於落實地方自治它是有很大的一個注意所以在這種情況之下延宕了25年的財化法不修現在終於刪除通過有了一個版本這個版本今天的經濟日報的社論也寫得非常清楚非常的合理當然站在行政院財政部您有您的立場\n\n14:18.226 --> 14:38.999\n但是我們看了整個綜合整個這些各家的媒體的一個報導是認為此次的修正是非常的合理的所以對於這種合理的修法版本行政院到目前您還沒有辦法說服我們說您有更好的版本提出來所以您在復議的前夕告訴我說我要同意你的復議\n\n14:40.660 --> 14:45.865\n院長這對於我們縣市的立法委員真的是投不下這個票啦真的是對我們來講對地方藝術那麼多的財政收入你勸\n\n14:58.717 --> 15:25.979\n合理的弱化整個國家的整體建設跟國防力量就是這樣但是您為什麼不提出版本呢這個就是我最大的疑惑已經那麼久了到復議前夕你再跟我講你方案準備好了這是什麼邏輯啊這個方案我們在12月2號表決之前就是有了你如何說服國會的立法委員啊我真的是很中肯的告訴行政院很多事情真的要提早做溝通啦而不是等到事情燒到火了你才跟我們講我有版本\n\n15:33.587 --> 15:38.538\n好,謝謝林委員,謝謝卓院長下一位請賴瑞榮委員詢問\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.314,"end":13.757,"text":"好 謝謝副院長我們請行政院卓院長請卓院長答詢林委員好卓院長好院長我首先還是直求對決請問你到底支不支持財政收支劃分法的修正"},{"start":33.109,"end":56.943,"text":"修正你支不支持這一次的就是財政收支劃分法要修你贊不贊成我剛說過雖然逐年來我們對地方的挹注比較多但是討論如何讓地方財政能夠更有自主在合理的討論下我們都歡迎我們也都願意積極的參與這樣的討論甚至我們也有一個想法好所以你是這就是你贊成修法嗎你是認為要修的"},{"start":58.001,"end":75.139,"text":"因為各地都有這樣聲音我們不能去背著大家的意志但是一定要合理的去討論所以你認為要合理討論來修法但是截至目前為止行政院的版本到底完成了沒有我們有很多的方案"},{"start":76.501,"end":96.496,"text":"我已經報告過這個方案在12月24號表決之前我們都希望能夠有機會來這裡透過黨團協商來談但是那個禮拜大院發生了一些比較秩序上的問題所以一直沒有辦法有效的展開各種的協商這也是我覺得非常遺憾的地方院長我們來看一下在本屆第一會期開始"},{"start":98.823,"end":124.182,"text":"在我們財政委員會總共就有我們藍綠白等委員總共提案了26個財政收支劃分法修法的一個版本那麼在討論的過程中我想部長也非常了解大家一直在等待的就是行政院的版本也就是剛才院長講的所謂的行政院的方案那麼最後"},{"start":125.506,"end":142.051,"text":"我們在財政委員會也從善如流包含本席在內我們連署了一個臨時提案那麼臨時提案的內容就是要求財政部在第二會期開議前提出願板請問為何一直沒有提出來"},{"start":144.352,"end":158.833,"text":"財政部一直很努力在就這個法案的內容在做精算但是更重要比較難的工作是跟各地方政府做更好的溝通這個工作一直在進行這不是一朝一夕可以完成的好"},{"start":160.17,"end":179.464,"text":"院長當然也給你們很衝突的時間部長您也講一下為什麼一直沒有提出來跟委員報告財政收支劃分法其實除了跟中央跟地方的權責劃分還有地方跟地方之間的一個如何的分配我們一直認為說我們應該要充分的溝通"},{"start":179.884,"end":195.83,"text":"得到最大的共識所以我們事實上從113年的年初開始請各地方政府對於分配的指標提出意見總共有80幾個指標那財政部一直不斷的跟地方政府在溝通最後也有一個初步的共識在指標的部分我們就把它濃縮了"},{"start":196.71,"end":205.676,"text":"只有三個有爭議接下來是有關各個指標的權重要怎麼分配以及指標裡面要不要更細緻的去做調整係數我們認為都應該要詳細的規劃審慎的一個進行所以上次財委會要求我們在"},{"start":213.821,"end":239.939,"text":"上個會期能夠提出草案事實上我們在當時也一直很說明說我們認為財化法固然可以修正但是不要倉促的修正我們應該要好好的討論有一個共識過去25年為什麼沒有能夠修法完整就是沒有共識所以我覺得這個部分不需要去這麼倉促那3月6號我們也在開會所以努力是一直在做說明的我也贊同您的說法就是說當然要"},{"start":240.88,"end":267.75,"text":"去很仔細的再去做這個相關的一個研究但是我比較好奇的說現在要復翼囉現在在復翼的前夕了馬上就要復翼囉現在院長我剛才聽到您從早上到現在您答覆幾位我們委員的這個諮詢你都一直要求說請求委員支持本次行政院的復翼讓行政院可以提出版本"},{"start":269.451,"end":298.085,"text":"但是行政院截至目前為止有提供任何的版本給我們立法委員來做一個相關的一個參考或審議嗎到復議的前夕你有提出版本來嗎時間已經那麼久了我贊成剛才部長你講的喔充分的去讓你們有時間去做跟地方政府來做相關的一個研擬但時間已經那麼久一年多了耶所以政府的誠信在哪裡可以這樣一言再言一拖再拖嗎"},{"start":299.212,"end":320.555,"text":"委員我必須說我們在總統召開院計協商之前我們跟立法院也有相當的接觸我就不講什麼方式那時候我們提出說在今年那個是去年的事情在今年的六月我們會提出一個版本後來在協商的一兩天當中希望我們在上個會期結束之前提出版本我也答應了"},{"start":321.596,"end":345.148,"text":"我也答應了這個無需求證我也答應了但是12月20號就發生了表決的事情後來就沒辦法進行院長您剛才提到我也有參與所以我也了解您剛才說的所以我現在很遺憾的是說到現在馬上要復議了但是您說您也答應了在年底就要提出版本到現在都沒有看到版本"},{"start":346.304,"end":371.209,"text":"這到底行政院是到底是有方案還是沒有方案你到底準備好了沒有如果到那時候所說的在今年的六月或是下半年我們提出一個完整的版本那時間上是更充裕如果在上個會期那提出的版本就是提出一個可以被討論的版本那內容可能還要大大的調整在目前為止我們就希望利用這段時間財政部也在不久前3月6號吧"},{"start":372.029,"end":393.811,"text":"跟地方政府做了幾次的溝通把問題漸漸的收斂下來那目前這個工作還在進行所以現在還在進行所以到現在為止你都沒有版本你的方案還是沒有出來有幾個方案所謂的行政院版本一定要經過院會我們有幾個方案這個方案如果跟地方溝通大家取得共識我們就會循程序成為行政院的版本"},{"start":394.171,"end":422.163,"text":"或者再經過立法院的朝野協商讓它成為一個大家的共識所以院長我也贊同你這樣的說法你也希望趕快提出版本嘛對不對所以你認為就是你看一開始也回答我你認為還是要做相關合理的一個修正嘛我們是一致的但是院長我看在去年的10月15號我們看一段影片您答覆在我們本院答覆委員的一個質詢來 放影片"},{"start":423.049,"end":442.748,"text":"沒有版本 現行的版本我一直強調現在是最好的版本我們看不到更好的版本所以院長您當時回答您的服務員 現在的版本就是最好的版本我一直說是執行起來最有把握的版本在今天要復印以前"},{"start":444.702,"end":459.869,"text":"您就跟我們講說您的版本您有在準備一直在找各個部會財政部找各縣市甚至在3月6號您也找各縣市來做相關的一個討論所以截至目前為止都看不到版本"},{"start":460.729,"end":487.395,"text":"所以您的意見是不是剛才你又打臉你自己了你根本就是認為現行的版本就是最好的版本現行應該只有一個版本啦我是認為它執行起來是最有把握的但是如果要來調整如果經過合理的這個大家的商量溝通我們很多的方式都在裡面院長我最後這個再給你一次機會請你誠實的告訴國人現在到底行政院的版本已經準備好了沒有"},{"start":488.67,"end":490.324,"text":"沒有的話我們如何跟地方談呢"},{"start":491.809,"end":520.251,"text":"所以準備好了有方案有方案那為什麼今天沒有辦法提出給我們本院來做一個審議今天不是在協商這個方案我們今天希望透過賦予的方式讓大家回到現狀我們再把我們的版本跟地方再溝通更好之後提出來一個那如果理想就是朝野各黨團能夠形成一個共識那這個就是立法院跟行政院共同的一個版本你已經準備好了你也有版本是"},{"start":521.312,"end":549.181,"text":"我們有方案還不至於成為版本因為最後還要細修但是你要等到復議之後你才提出來依照你剛剛的說法你是這樣子復議之後重新來審視的時候我們就加快把它形成所以院長你這個說法我們就覺得我們對立法委員非常的不尊重既然要提復議你又不願意在復議之前跟我們所有的國會的立法委員復議之後我們當然要做這樣的努力把你的版本提出來讓大家來檢視"},{"start":551.184,"end":572.09,"text":"來做充分的跟每位委員做充分的溝通跟協調行政院是這樣子來跟立法院溝通的嗎對你方案那麼多為什麼沒有辦法跟立法委員做充分的溝通到現在我們今天要做成復議的決定了你還不知道行政院的版本是什麼"},{"start":573.01,"end":589.264,"text":"今天討論是不一樣我們是針對現行修法過得不一樣當然有一個前提啊 院長如果不知道您現在提出來的版本是不是會優於我們現在修法的版本我們如何來決定我要投這個票我們先提出的是目前自在難行之處"},{"start":590.424,"end":619.066,"text":"我們就會針對這些方式來做修正的方式這個很難說服我們我想我要很理性的告訴你我們要的就很明確的告訴你把行政院的版本提出來我們是可以跟你來做溝通的跟委員說明一下在3月6號的會議我們已經把水平分配的相關的指標跟權重還有調整係數非常具體的提出來了這個就是未來水平分配可以依據的一個方向"},{"start":619.777,"end":641.433,"text":"讓大家來討論這個就已經非常具體了那至於其他的譬如說我們也告訴他我們的修法的方向就是擴大中央統籌分配稅款的規模而且要可以提升地方的財政自主這個部分這個就是垂直分配我們也提出來而且會優先彌補地方財政收支一個差短而且保障既有的一個財源"},{"start":642.433,"end":668.398,"text":"這是非常具體的一個方向的這個幾乎只是說我們把這個方向認定以後接下來只是落入文字這是先把方向確認了以後落入文字其實只是後續的工作所以基本上我們是有方案的有方案但是我還是要回到我剛才一再而三的提醒院長為什麼不請財政部在利用富裕的前夕"},{"start":669.398,"end":696.965,"text":"利用我們在整個修會有這麼長的一個時間充分的跟國會來做溝通跟協調來討論然後再決定說我們要怎麼樣我們不管是我們在野黨國民黨也好民眾黨也好我們充分溝通討論大家再來決定說您提出了復議案我們是不是要做相關的一個做出最後同意或者不同意這樣的一個決定所以我要很遺憾的告訴你到目前看不到版本"},{"start":697.665,"end":707.001,"text":"我真的很難去投下同意您的複議票我這樣要告訴你好 我們來看一下我關心我自己的新竹縣市我也要告訴院長"},{"start":708.171,"end":728.753,"text":"那新竹縣市在這次2025年我看到的一個我們族記書的一個國庫還有我們國庫署的一個統計表新竹縣這次的如果2025可以分配它的統籌分配稅款大概只有69.2億新竹市是83.97億"},{"start":732.093,"end":753.301,"text":"那這個在我們六都以外十六縣市中新竹縣市的排名新竹縣市排名第九新竹市是排名第五如果我們再加上一般性的補助款新竹縣調到第十一名新竹市調到第十二名反而是更往後"},{"start":754.221,"end":776.275,"text":"也就是說新竹縣市長期以來在稅收的上繳金額都是名列前茅但總數以及人均獲得的統籌分配稅款卻一直都是在後段班這對新竹縣市來講根本是非常不平等的待遇那麼在這一次的修法之後統籌分配稅款"},{"start":777.196,"end":801.048,"text":"各可以分配到185億以及210億均大幅增加了110億以上我想這個對於我們未來新竹縣市大新竹縣市的交通建設教育建設橋樑建設以及河川治理等各種必要的公共建設我們都有自主裁員可以運用所以院長"},{"start":802.27,"end":831.394,"text":"在這種情況之下您認為本席會支持您的救治嗎每個委員都有選區以自己的選區為重當然我們都理解院長我只是一個比喻而已我想告訴你就是說對於我們各個縣市而言我想其實我們總表其實我們都已經有很多委員在諮詢的時候也有提出來各個縣市都是大幅增加的"},{"start":832.475,"end":857.074,"text":"所以財化法的修正對於落實地方自治它是有很大的一個注意所以在這種情況之下延宕了25年的財化法不修現在終於刪除通過有了一個版本這個版本今天的經濟日報的社論也寫得非常清楚非常的合理當然站在行政院財政部您有您的立場"},{"start":858.226,"end":878.999,"text":"但是我們看了整個綜合整個這些各家的媒體的一個報導是認為此次的修正是非常的合理的所以對於這種合理的修法版本行政院到目前您還沒有辦法說服我們說您有更好的版本提出來所以您在復議的前夕告訴我說我要同意你的復議"},{"start":880.66,"end":885.865,"text":"院長這對於我們縣市的立法委員真的是投不下這個票啦真的是對我們來講對地方藝術那麼多的財政收入你勸"},{"start":898.717,"end":925.979,"text":"合理的弱化整個國家的整體建設跟國防力量就是這樣但是您為什麼不提出版本呢這個就是我最大的疑惑已經那麼久了到復議前夕你再跟我講你方案準備好了這是什麼邏輯啊這個方案我們在12月2號表決之前就是有了你如何說服國會的立法委員啊我真的是很中肯的告訴行政院很多事情真的要提早做溝通啦而不是等到事情燒到火了你才跟我們講我有版本"},{"start":933.587,"end":938.538,"text":"好,謝謝林委員,謝謝卓院長下一位請賴瑞榮委員詢問"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":218,"blocks":[["林委員思銘：（15時19分）謝謝我們副院長，請行政院卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長答詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：林委員好。"],["林委員思銘：卓院長好。院長，我首先還是直球對決，請問你到底支不支持財政收支劃分法的修正？"],["卓院長榮泰：修正？"],["林委員思銘：對，你支不支持這次的……就是財政收支劃分法要修，你贊不贊成？"],["卓院長榮泰：我剛剛說過，雖然逐年來我們對地方的挹注比較多，但是討論如何讓地方財政能夠更自主，在合理的討論下，我們都歡迎……"],["林委員思銘：你是贊成修法嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們也都願意積極的參與這樣的討論，甚至我們也有一個想法。"],["林委員思銘：好，所以就是你贊成修法嘛！你是認為要修的啦，我這樣講對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為各地都有這樣聲音，我們不能背馳大家的意旨，但是一定要合理的討論。"],["林委員思銘：是，所以你認為要合理討論來修法嘛！但是截至目前為止，行政院的版本到底完成了沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們有很多的方案，我已經報告過，這個方案在12月24日表決之前，我們都希望能夠有機會來這裡透過黨團協商來談，但是那個禮拜大院發生了一些比較秩序上的問題，所以一直沒有辦法有效展開各種的協商，這也是我覺得非常遺憾的地方。"],["林委員思銘：院長，我們來看一下，在本屆第1會期開始，在財政委員會我們藍、綠、白的委員總共提案了26個財政收支劃分法修法的版本，那麼在討論的過程中，我想部長也非常了解，大家一直在等待的就是行政院的版本，也就是剛才院長講的所謂行政院的方案，最後我們在財政委員會也從善如流，包含本席在內，我們連署了一個臨時提案，臨時提案的內容就是要求財政部在第2會期開議前提出院版。請問為何一直沒有提出來？"],["卓院長榮泰：財政部一直很努力就這個法案的內容精算，但是更重要、比較難的工作是跟各地方政府做更好的溝通，這個工作一直在進行，這不是一朝一夕可以完成的。"],["林委員思銘：好，院長，當然也給你們很充分的時間……"],["卓院長榮泰：部長如何進行，能不能讓部長簡單答復一下？"],["林委員思銘：部長，你也講一下，為什麼一直沒有提出來？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，跟委員報告，財政收支劃分法其實除了中央跟地方的權責劃分，還有地方跟地方之間如何分配，我們一直認為我們應該要充分的溝通，得到最大的共識，所以我們事實上從113年年初開始，請各地方政府對於分配的指標提出意見，總共有八十幾個指標，財政部一直不斷的跟地方政府在溝通，最後也有一個初步的共識，在指標的部分，我們就把它濃縮了，只有三個有爭議；接下來是有關各個指標的權重要怎麼分配，以及指標裡面要不要更細緻地調整係數，我們認為都應該要詳細的規劃及審慎的進行。","關於財委會要求我們在上個會期能夠提出草案，事實上，我們在當時也一直說明，我們認為財劃法固然可以修正，但是不要倉促地修正，我們應該要好好的討論，有一個共識。過去25年，為什麼沒有能夠修法完成，就是因為沒有共識，所以我覺得這個部分不需要那麼倉促，3月6日我們也在開會，所以努力是一直在進行的。"],["林委員思銘：部長，我想我也給你非常充裕的時間再做說明了，我也贊同你的說法，當然要很仔細地再去做相關的研究……"],["莊部長翠雲：是，謝謝。"],["林委員思銘：但是我比較好奇的是，現在要覆議了，現在在覆議的前夕了，馬上就要覆議了。院長，我剛才聽到您從早上現在，您答復幾位我們委員的質詢，您都一直要求，請求委員支持本次行政院的覆議，讓行政院可以提出版本。但是行政院截至目前為止，有提供任何的版本給我們立法委員來做相關的參考或審議嗎？到覆議的前夕，你有提出版本來嗎？時間已經那麼久了，我贊成剛才部長講的，充分的讓你們有時間去、跟地方政府做相關的研擬，但時間已經那麼久，一年多了！所以政府的誠信在哪裡，可以這樣一延再延、一拖再拖嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我必須說，我們在總統召開院際協商之前，我們跟立法院也有相當的接觸，我就不講什麼方式，那是去年的事情，那時候我們提出在今年的6月我們會提出一個版本，後來在協商的一、兩天當中，希望我們在上個會期結束之前提出版本，我也答應了。"],["林委員思銘：是啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：這個無須求證，我也答應了，但是12月24日就發生了表決的事情，後來就沒辦法進行。"],["林委員思銘：院長，您剛才提到的我也有參與，所以我也了解您剛才說的。我現在很遺憾的是，到現在馬上要覆議了，但是你說你也答應了在年底就要提出版本，但到現在都沒有看到版本，到底行政院是有方案，還是沒有方案？你到底準備好了沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：那時候所說的是今年6月或下半年我們提出一個完整的版本，這樣時間上是更充裕，如果在上個會期提出版本，那就是提出一個可以被討論的版本，內容可能還要大大的調整，但目前為止，我們希望利用這段時間，財政部在不久前的3月6號也跟地方政府做了幾次溝通，把問題漸漸收斂下來，目前這個工作還在進行。"],["林委員思銘：院長，現在還在進行，所以到現在為止你都沒有版本，你們的方案還是沒有出來。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們是有幾個方案，所謂的行政院版本一定要經過院會，我們有幾個方案，這個方案如果跟地方溝通，大家取得共識，我們就會循程序成為行政院的版本，或者再經過立法院的朝野協商讓它成為大家的共識。"],["林委員思銘：院長，我也贊同你這樣的說法，你也希望趕快提出版本，對不對？所以一開始你回答我時，你認為還是要做相關合理的修正嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們是一致的。"],["林委員思銘：是喔！但是院長，在去年的10月15號，我們先看一段影片，這是你在本院答復委員的質詢。","（播放影片）"],["林委員思銘：院長，你當時回答林德福委員說，現在的版本就是最好的版本，所以……"],["卓院長榮泰：我一直說是執行起來最有把握的版本。"],["林委員思銘：所以在今天要覆議以前，你就跟我們講說你的版本有在準備，一直在找各部會討論，財政部甚至在3月6號也找了各縣市做相關的討論，但截至目前為止都看不到版本，所以你的意見是不是剛才又打臉你自己了，你根本就認為現行版本就是最好的版本？"],["卓院長榮泰：現行因為只有一個版本，我是認為它執行起來是最有把握的，但如果要調整，經過大家合理的商量、溝通，我們有很多方式都在裡面。"],["林委員思銘：院長，我最後再給你一次機會，請你誠實的告訴國人，到底行政院的版本準備好了沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有的話，我們如何跟地方談呢？"],["林委員思銘：所以準備好了，有方案？"],["卓院長榮泰：有方案。"],["林委員思銘：那為什麼今天沒有辦法提出來給本院審議？"],["卓院長榮泰：今天不是在協商這個方案，我們今天是希望透過覆議的方式讓它回到現狀，我們再把我們的版本跟地方溝通更好之後再提出來，如果理想，就是朝野各黨團能夠形成共識，那這個就是立法院跟行政院共同的方案。"],["林委員思銘：院長，你已經準備好了，你也有版本？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，我們有方案，但還不足於成為版本，因為最後還要細修。"],["林委員思銘：但是你要等到覆議之後才提出來，依照你剛剛的說法是這樣子，你是不是準備這樣做？"],["卓院長榮泰：覆議之後重新來審視，我們就加快把它形成……"],["林委員思銘：院長，你這個說法，我覺得對立法委員非常的不尊重，既然要提覆議，又不願意在覆議之前跟所有的國會立法委員做……"],["卓院長榮泰：覆議之後，我們當然要做這樣的努力。"],["林委員思銘：把你的版本提出來讓大家來檢視，然後跟每位委員做充分的溝通跟協調……"],["卓院長榮泰：這是我們的方案，我們的方案很多啊！"],["林委員思銘：難道行政院是這樣子跟立法院溝通的嗎？對，你方案那麼多，但為什麼沒有辦法跟立法委員做充分的溝通……"],["卓院長榮泰：今天討論的是覆議案。"],["林委員思銘：到現在我們要做成覆議的決定……"],["卓院長榮泰：今天討論的是覆議案。"],["林委員思銘：還不知道行政院的版本是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：今天討論的是覆議案，我們是針對現行修法通過的法案提出覆議案……"],["林委員思銘：要覆議當然有一個前提，院長，我如果不知道你現在提出來的版本是不是會優於現在修法的版本，那我們如何決定要不要投這個票呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們先提出的是目前窒礙難行之處，我們就是針對這些來做修正的方式。"],["林委員思銘：院長，這個很難說服我們，我要很理性的告訴你，我們要的就是很明確的告訴你，把行政院的版本提出來，我們是可以跟你溝通的。"],["卓院長榮泰：部長說明一下。"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員說明，在3月6號的會議，我們已經把水平分配的相關指標、權重還有調整係數非常具體地提出來，這個就是未來水平分配可以依據的方向，讓大家來討論，這個已經非常具體了；至於其他的，譬如我們也告訴大家我們的修法方向，就是擴大中央統籌分配稅款的規模，而且要可以提升地方的財政自主，這個部分就是垂直分配，這個我們也提出來，而且會優先彌補地方財政收支的差短，保障既有的財源。這些都是非常具體的方向，幾乎只是說我們把這個方向認定以後，接下來只是落入文字，這個是先把方向確認了以後，落入文字其實只是後續的工作，所以基本上我們是有方案的。"],["林委員思銘：部長，有方案？"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["林委員思銘：但是我還是要回到我剛才再而三地提醒院長的，為什麼不請財政部利用覆議的前夕，我們在整個休會有這麼長的時間，充分地跟國會來做溝通跟協調、來討論，然後再決定我們要怎麼樣，不管是我們在野黨的國民黨也好，民眾黨也好，跟他們充分溝通討論，大家再來決定說您提出的覆議案，我們是不是要做出最後同意或者不同意的決定？所以我要很遺憾地告訴你，到目前看不到版本，我真的很難去投下同意您的覆議票，我這樣要告訴你。","好，我們來看一下，我關心我自己的新竹縣市，我也要告訴院長，新竹縣市在這一次2025年，我看我們主計處還有國庫署的一個統計表，新竹縣這一次在2025可以分配到的統籌分配稅款大概只有69.2億，新竹市是83.97億，這個在我們六都以外的16縣市中，新竹縣市的排名，新竹縣是排名第9，新竹市是排名第5，如果我們再加上一般性的補助款，新竹縣掉到第11名，新竹市掉到第12名，反而是更往後。也就是說，新竹縣市長期以來在稅收的上繳金額都是名列前茅，但總數以及人均獲得的統籌分配稅款卻一直都是在後段班，這對新竹縣市來講根本是非常不平等的待遇。在這一次的修法之後，統籌分配稅款各可以分配到185億以及210億，均大幅增加了110億以上。我想這個對於我們未來新竹縣市、大新竹縣市的交通建設、教育建設、橋梁建設以及河川治理等各種必要的公共建設，我們都有自主財源可以運用，所以院長，在這種情況之下，您認為本席會支持您的舊制嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：每個委員都有選區，以自己的選區為重，當然我們都理解，但是……"],["林委員思銘：院長，我只是一個比喻而已，我想告訴你就是說，對於我們各個縣市而言，我想其實我們總表……其實已經有很多委員在質詢的時候也提出來，各個縣市都是大幅增加的，所以財劃法的修正對於落實地方自治，它有很大的助益，所以在這種情況之下，延宕了25年的財劃法不修，現在終於三讀通過有了一個版本，這個版本今天經濟日報的社論也寫得非常清楚，非常的合理。當然站在行政院、財政部，您有您的立場，但是我們綜合整個各家媒體的報導，認為此次的修正是非常合理的，所以對於這種合理的修法版本，行政院到目前還沒有辦法說服我們說您有更好的版本提出來，您在覆議的前夕告訴我說我要同意你的覆議，院長，這對於我們……"],["卓院長榮泰：中央各個財政減少三千多億。"],["林委員思銘：各個縣市的立法委員，真的是投不下這個票啦！真的對我們來講……"],["卓院長榮泰：中央財政減少3,753億。"],["林委員思銘：地方挹注那麼多的財政收入，你卻要求……"],["卓院長榮泰：如果合理，它的合理因素只有一個，合理的弱化整個國家的整體建設跟國防力量，就是這樣子。"],["林委員思銘：院長，但是您為什麼不提出版本呢？這個就是我最大的疑惑，已經那麼久了，到覆議前夕你才跟我講你方案準備好了，這是什麼邏輯啊？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個方案我們在12月表決之前就是有了。"],["林委員思銘：你如何說服國會的立法委員啊？我真的是很中肯的告訴行政院，很多事情真的要提早溝通啦！而不是等到事情燒到火了，你才跟我們講你有版本。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，溝通的事情您也知道，不要說我們沒有溝通，溝通發生困難原因在哪裡，我們心裡都知道。"],["主席：謝謝林委員、謝謝卓院長。","下一位請賴瑞隆委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":344,"meet_id":"全院委員會-11-3-2","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","傅崐萁","許宇甄","吳思瑤","陳培瑜","鍾佳濱","翁曉玲","陳玉珍","黃珊珊","林俊憲","王鴻薇","郭國文","楊瓊瓔","馬文君","陳亭妃","林思銘","賴瑞隆"],"page_start":275,"meetingDate":["2025-03-12"],"gazette_id":"1142501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142501_00011","1142501_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第2次全院委員會會議紀錄","content":"「財政收支劃分法」第八條、第十六條之一及第三十條條文覆議案","agenda_id":"1142501_00020"}}}