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\"start\": 614.301, \"end\": 614.321, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,030 --> 00:00:01,911\n謝謝主席有請顧部長是羅委員好\n\n2\n00:00:12,226 --> 00:00:33,343\n部長好部長這個永英高校機失事到現在已經將滿一個月那所幸當時飛行員林少校是跳傘成功也成功被救援可是失事的原因到目前為止還是不是很明朗這主要是因為我們機體到目前為止都還沒有打到上來嘛對不對\n\n3\n00:00:34,644 --> 00:00:48,297\n機體到現在都還沒有打到上來跟委員報告在應該是昨天的下午那個前機身的部分打到上來所以已經尋獲這個黑盒子\n\n4\n00:00:50,258 --> 00:01:06,610\n所以現在就這個黑盒子的部分,我們會後續要完成解讀,然後依照它相關的記錄,依循這個人陰機械或環境等上大面向來逐一探討這個逝世的噪音。\n\n5\n00:01:07,310 --> 00:01:22,351\n所以黑盒子已經找到了所以很快我們就可以來判讀那我剛才看到你們的這個報告裡面有提到就是說我們空軍是依據這個飛行員的訪談證詞目前是朝向就是說應該就是機械故障的這個原因\n\n6\n00:01:24,293 --> 00:01:49,446\n跟委員稍微補充一下因為委員那個召委定的題目是施事後的檢修情況所以我還是要再澄清一下我們這個施事後的檢修情況是說因為我們要實施天安特檢所以我們就將這個有關機械的因素的部分大概分成四類十二項我們來進行檢修但是我們並沒有確定它是什麼原因\n\n7\n00:01:51,307 --> 00:02:09,154\n並沒有就馬上斷定說這個是哪一項的因素我們依照慣例都是還是要尋人因機械環境這個因素等三大面向來探討是不是原因那特別現在黑盒子已經這個打到上來嘛那我們當然要來解讀\n\n8\n00:02:10,634 --> 00:02:30,865\n因為這份報告出來的時候我在想黑盒子因為那時候還沒黑盒子還沒有找到之前我在想說我們就已經淩了這個報告我們這份報告只是在講我們檢修的部分檢修的部分特別誠心地講沒有在說明到什麼原因是要提到就是說因為我們3月5號我們就付費了嘛\n\n9\n00:02:31,425 --> 00:02:34,807\n3月5號我們就要講到目前為止我們看起來這個失事的原因到底是人為因素還是機械故障的原因到目前都還不確定嘛那當然我有看到就是說我們有委託漢祥公司執行非記者維保的作業當然也做了前機隊的檢查\n\n10\n00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:19,458\n看起來好像36架都沒問題剩下的5架可能就要出場之前再來執行它的這個檢測嘛你們的報告裡面提的是這樣子可是如果這樣子的話所以我們就想說這架詠音師這高叫機到目前它這個失事的原因的未明之下我們居然還可以在三月五號這麼快就復飛那難道這樣子就沒有這個飛安的餘力嗎我想了解的是這個部分\n\n11\n00:03:24,802 --> 00:03:46,847\n跟委員報告我們過去這個相關包括幻象的或者是其他F16這些如果有任何這個不幸失事的這個情況的話我們都會進行天安特檢天安特檢有檢查的項目那我們不可能說我們不可能說等到整個\n\n12\n00:03:47,387 --> 00:04:04,880\n肇事的原因把它確定之後我們才進行付費因為肇事的原因的判斷通常按照現在相關的應該都要到一年一年左右所以我們天安特檢的慣例都是說\n\n13\n00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:33,008\n我們會把全機做一個全面性的檢查檢查完之後確認安全的一個因素有被確保之後呢那我們就像剛剛講的我們會秉持這個先訓教官再訓學員然後先執行低風險然後教官資格連財交付待會方慢慢循逐步來執行最後來恢復正常的訓練因為我們不可能說\n\n14\n00:04:34,608 --> 00:04:50,075\n這個等到這個一年後造勢的原因確定我再請教一下部長因為我有看到因為我就是有看到你們裡面的報告裡面有提到像機械因素分析這個部分有提到就是說你們會依據飛行員的訪談證實錄音操監跟修圍護記錄等事證我想請教一下像這個我們這個編號1130的這個永英高校機它在這個飛行之前它所謂的修圍護這個記錄\n\n15\n00:05:03,941 --> 00:05:28,541\n裡面他到底過去有沒有所謂的異常的這個狀況在失事之前的休維護的紀錄這個部分要不要請那個因為畢竟去年五月才首飛嘛所以這個部分的話我想了解一下跟委員報告現在已經成立了失事專案小組在這個部分在失事前的休維護紀錄應該是\n\n16\n00:05:30,546 --> 00:05:59,181\n目前就這個之前的記錄來看是沒有問題但是這一個整個的還是要由專案這個人員在專案小組來做最後的一個報告所以之前都沒有問題嗎就像我們所說的這36架的2月27日我們已經完成妥善計36架這個36架的這個咏陰高校劇就跟這個1130一樣嘛就是檢查的時候都沒有問題\n\n17\n00:06:00,101 --> 00:06:16,670\n就突然間2月15號它就失勢了雙發動機就失效了這會不會發生在其他的高焦跡的身上呢會嗎所以現在就是說我們不能夠排除任何的噪音嘛那所以說現在\n\n18\n00:06:18,399 --> 00:06:35,334\n之前的修復紀錄不管它有沒有問題我們之後還是要看是機械因素、維修的因素、人因的因素、環境因素等等我們都是要來加以部長剛剛有提到說可能要等到一年後才知道這個1130到底發生了什麼事情\n\n19\n00:06:36,455 --> 00:06:59,533\n剩下来的这些机型这些这些我们所谓的妥善机是不是之后我们也会担心非安的这个问题这是本席在你们的报告里面所看到的一些状况好那再来还有一点时间我想请教一下就是说有关于我这个国防议算的这个编列我们可以看到\n\n20\n00:06:59,993 --> 00:07:11,947\n看到就是說從小英總統就任之後我們可以看到我們這個國防預算呢佔這個GDP的比率是不斷的這個升高尤其到了114年呢我們這國防預算來到了這個佔GDP的2.45%\n\n21\n00:07:18,633 --> 00:07:35,660\n其實已經達到了這個北約所定的這個2%GDP2%的這個基數了可是呢我們看到就是說美國的這個智庫學者或者是官員都提到說這其實是不夠的甚至提到說提升到5%10%都有那在這個2月\n\n22\n00:07:39,381 --> 00:07:42,344\n14號的時候賴清德總統就宣示了我們在這個2026年的時候我們要來優先編列這個特別預算會將這個國防預算提高到3%我們再算一下如果是以這個2025年的這個\n\n23\n00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:22,146\n2025年佔GDP26.4493億為座這個基數計算的話我們到時明年的國防預算可能會來到將近8000億那像這個增加的這個這個預算的話未來我們有沒有想到就是說會朝向會去做怎麼樣的一個\n\n24\n00:08:24,110 --> 00:08:53,102\n一個計畫是說我們是以採購不對稱作戰或是研發不對稱作戰的武器或是來汰換這個長年未更換的一些老舊的軍武我們有沒有朝向哪一個方向因為我看到有些已經超過20年像現在有一個現役有6架12K的這個航空預警機已經超過20年了甚至有些這個巡防隊也超過服役30年我們是朝向哪一個目標跟計畫先請問\n\n25\n00:08:54,382 --> 00:09:14,882\n跟委員報告一個是有關籌獲的這個我們著重的面向那著重面向大概四個不對稱的關鍵戰力然後作戰的韌性指管與作戰韌性然後第三個就是後備戰力後備我們現在後備戰力要快速提升那第四個我們還是要應處這個\n\n26\n00:09:17,024 --> 00:09:42,075\n灰色地帶的威脅這個部分我們還是要朝這個四大面向那我們籌貨的這個管道當然不只是軍購也有商售然後也有我們國防自主的生產那相關的總統宣示就是說我們提高到3%那我們現在就光部會就這個四大的面向然後來\n\n27\n00:09:43,395 --> 00:10:02,575\n看看這個相關的可以快速形成站立的籌貨的管道途徑來編列這個相關的這些預算那如果為了避免排擠到這一個一般的這個年度的公務預算的話當然也不排除我們就提出特別預算\n\n28\n00:10:04,096 --> 00:10:14,321\nOK好了解那當然就是2026年我們就要提出來要提高到3%那金額是將近8000億我在想我在想這部分可能就是要提早來做這個準備那除了這個軍備的準備之外我想這個國軍人力的這個訓練也很重要像這個的部分不可能說你武器買進來之後你再來做培訓我想這個部分也需要有一個具體的這個計畫好以上謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1030\t1911\t謝謝主席 有請顧部長是 羅委員好\n12226\t33343\t部長好 部長這個永英高校機失事到現在已經將滿一個月那所幸當時飛行員林少校是跳傘成功 也成功被救援可是失事的原因到目前為止還是不是很明朗這主要是因為我們機體到目前為止都還沒有打到上來嘛 對不對\n34644\t48297\t機體到現在都還沒有打到上來跟委員報告在應該是昨天的下午那個前機身的部分打到上來所以已經尋獲這個黑盒子\n50258\t66610\t所以現在就這個黑盒子的部分,我們會後續要完成解讀,然後依照它相關的記錄,依循這個人陰機械或環境等上大面向來逐一探討這個逝世的噪音。\n67310\t82351\t所以黑盒子已經找到了所以很快我們就可以來判讀那我剛才看到你們的這個報告裡面有提到就是說我們空軍是依據這個飛行員的訪談證詞目前是朝向就是說應該就是機械故障的這個原因\n84293\t109446\t跟委員稍微補充一下因為委員那個召委定的題目是施事後的檢修情況所以我還是要再澄清一下我們這個施事後的檢修情況是說因為我們要實施天安特檢所以我們就將這個有關機械的因素的部分大概分成四類十二項我們來進行檢修但是我們並沒有確定它是什麼原因\n111307\t129154\t並沒有就馬上斷定說這個是哪一項的因素我們依照慣例都是還是要尋人因機械環境這個因素等三大面向來探討是不是原因那特別現在黑盒子已經這個打到上來嘛那我們當然要來解讀\n130634\t150865\t因為這份報告出來的時候我在想黑盒子 因為那時候還沒黑盒子還沒有找到之前 我在想說我們就已經淩了這個報告我們這份報告只是在講我們檢修的部分 檢修的部分特別誠心地講沒有在說明到什麼原因是要提到就是說因為我們3月5號我們就付費了嘛\n151425\t154807\t3月5號我們就要講到目前為止我們看起來這個失事的原因到底是人為因素還是機械故障的原因到目前都還不確定嘛那當然我有看到就是說我們有委託漢祥公司執行非記者維保的作業當然也做了前機隊的檢查\n178320\t199458\t看起來好像36架都沒問題剩下的5架可能就要出場之前再來執行它的這個檢測嘛你們的報告裡面提的是這樣子可是如果這樣子的話所以我們就想說這架詠音師這高叫機到目前它這個失事的原因的未明之下我們居然還可以在三月五號這麼快就復飛那難道這樣子就沒有這個飛安的餘力嗎我想了解的是這個部分\n204802\t226847\t跟委員報告我們過去這個相關包括幻象的或者是其他F16這些如果有任何這個不幸失事的這個情況的話我們都會進行天安特檢天安特檢有檢查的項目那我們不可能說我們不可能說等到整個\n227387\t244880\t肇事的原因把它確定之後我們才進行付費因為肇事的原因的判斷通常按照現在相關的應該都要到一年一年左右所以我們天安特檢的慣例都是說\n246000\t273008\t我們會把全機做一個全面性的檢查檢查完之後確認安全的一個因素有被確保之後呢那我們就像剛剛講的我們會秉持這個先訓教官再訓學員然後先執行低風險然後教官資格連財交付待會方慢慢循逐步來執行最後來恢復正常的訓練因為我們不可能說\n274608\t290075\t這個等到這個一年後造勢的原因確定我再請教一下部長因為我有看到因為我就是有看到你們裡面的報告裡面有提到像機械因素分析這個部分有提到就是說你們會依據飛行員的訪談證實錄音操監跟修圍護記錄等事證我想請教一下像這個我們這個編號1130的這個永英高校機它在這個飛行之前它所謂的修圍護這個記錄\n303941\t328541\t裡面他到底過去有沒有所謂的異常的這個狀況在失事之前的休維護的紀錄這個部分要不要請那個因為畢竟去年五月才首飛嘛所以這個部分的話我想了解一下跟委員報告現在已經成立了失事專案小組在這個部分在失事前的休維護紀錄應該是\n330546\t359181\t目前就這個之前的記錄來看是沒有問題但是這一個整個的還是要由專案這個人員在專案小組來做最後的一個報告所以之前都沒有問題嗎就像我們所說的這36架的2月27日我們已經完成妥善計36架這個36架的這個咏陰高校劇就跟這個1130一樣嘛就是檢查的時候都沒有問題\n360101\t376670\t就突然間2月15號它就失勢了雙發動機就失效了這會不會發生在其他的高焦跡的身上呢會嗎所以現在就是說我們不能夠排除任何的噪音嘛那所以說現在\n378399\t395334\t之前的修復紀錄不管它有沒有問題我們之後還是要看是機械因素、維修的因素、人因的因素、環境因素等等我們都是要來加以部長剛剛有提到說可能要等到一年後才知道這個1130到底發生了什麼事情\n396455\t419533\t剩下来的这些机型这些这些我们所谓的妥善机是不是之后我们也会担心非安的这个问题这是本席在你们的报告里面所看到的一些状况好那再来还有一点时间我想请教一下就是说有关于我这个国防议算的这个编列我们可以看到\n419993\t431947\t看到就是說從小英總統就任之後我們可以看到我們這個國防預算呢佔這個GDP的比率是不斷的這個升高尤其到了114年呢我們這國防預算來到了這個佔GDP的2.45%\n438633\t455660\t其實已經達到了這個北約所定的這個2%GDP2%的這個基數了可是呢我們看到就是說美國的這個智庫學者或者是官員都提到說這其實是不夠的甚至提到說提升到5%10%都有那在這個2月\n459381\t462344\t14號的時候賴清德總統就宣示了我們在這個2026年的時候我們要來優先編列這個特別預算會將這個國防預算提高到3%我們再算一下如果是以這個2025年的這個\n481440\t502146\t2025年佔GDP26.4493億為座這個基數計算的話我們到時明年的國防預算可能會來到將近8000億那像這個增加的這個這個預算的話未來我們有沒有想到就是說會朝向會去做怎麼樣的一個\n504110\t533102\t一個計畫是說我們是以採購不對稱作戰或是研發不對稱作戰的武器或是來汰換這個長年未更換的一些老舊的軍武我們有沒有朝向哪一個方向因為我看到有些已經超過20年像現在有一個現役有6架12K的這個航空預警機已經超過20年了甚至有些這個巡防隊也超過服役30年我們是朝向哪一個目標跟計畫先請問\n534382\t554882\t跟委員報告一個是有關籌獲的這個我們著重的面向那著重面向大概四個不對稱的關鍵戰力然後作戰的韌性指管與作戰韌性然後第三個就是後備戰力後備我們現在後備戰力要快速提升那第四個我們還是要應處這個\n557024\t582075\t灰色地帶的威脅這個部分我們還是要朝這個四大面向那我們籌貨的這個管道當然不只是軍購也有商售然後也有我們國防自主的生產那相關的總統宣示就是說我們提高到3%那我們現在就光部會就這個四大的面向然後來\n583395\t602575\t看看這個相關的可以快速形成站立的籌貨的管道途徑來編列這個相關的這些預算那如果為了避免排擠到這一個一般的這個年度的公務預算的話當然也不排除我們就提出特別預算\n604096\t614321\tOK 好 了解那當然就是2026年我們就要提出來要提高到3%那金額是將近8000億我在想 我在想這部分可能就是要提早來做這個準備那除了這個軍備的準備之外我想這個國軍人力的這個訓練也很重要像這個的部分不可能說你武器買進來之後你再來做培訓我想這個部分也需要有一個具體的這個計畫好 以上謝謝好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請顧部長是 羅委員好\n部長好 部長這個永英高校機失事到現在已經將滿一個月那所幸當時飛行員林少校是跳傘成功 也成功被救援可是失事的原因到目前為止還是不是很明朗這主要是因為我們機體到目前為止都還沒有打到上來嘛 對不對\n機體到現在都還沒有打到上來跟委員報告在應該是昨天的下午那個前機身的部分打到上來所以已經尋獲這個黑盒子\n所以現在就這個黑盒子的部分,我們會後續要完成解讀,然後依照它相關的記錄,依循這個人陰機械或環境等上大面向來逐一探討這個逝世的噪音。\n所以黑盒子已經找到了所以很快我們就可以來判讀那我剛才看到你們的這個報告裡面有提到就是說我們空軍是依據這個飛行員的訪談證詞目前是朝向就是說應該就是機械故障的這個原因\n跟委員稍微補充一下因為委員那個召委定的題目是施事後的檢修情況所以我還是要再澄清一下我們這個施事後的檢修情況是說因為我們要實施天安特檢所以我們就將這個有關機械的因素的部分大概分成四類十二項我們來進行檢修但是我們並沒有確定它是什麼原因\n並沒有就馬上斷定說這個是哪一項的因素我們依照慣例都是還是要尋人因機械環境這個因素等三大面向來探討是不是原因那特別現在黑盒子已經這個打到上來嘛那我們當然要來解讀\n因為這份報告出來的時候我在想黑盒子 因為那時候還沒黑盒子還沒有找到之前 我在想說我們就已經淩了這個報告我們這份報告只是在講我們檢修的部分 檢修的部分特別誠心地講沒有在說明到什麼原因是要提到就是說因為我們3月5號我們就付費了嘛\n3月5號我們就要講到目前為止我們看起來這個失事的原因到底是人為因素還是機械故障的原因到目前都還不確定嘛那當然我有看到就是說我們有委託漢祥公司執行非記者維保的作業當然也做了前機隊的檢查\n看起來好像36架都沒問題剩下的5架可能就要出場之前再來執行它的這個檢測嘛你們的報告裡面提的是這樣子可是如果這樣子的話所以我們就想說這架詠音師這高叫機到目前它這個失事的原因的未明之下我們居然還可以在三月五號這麼快就復飛那難道這樣子就沒有這個飛安的餘力嗎我想了解的是這個部分\n跟委員報告我們過去這個相關包括幻象的或者是其他F16這些如果有任何這個不幸失事的這個情況的話我們都會進行天安特檢天安特檢有檢查的項目那我們不可能說我們不可能說等到整個\n肇事的原因把它確定之後我們才進行付費因為肇事的原因的判斷通常按照現在相關的應該都要到一年一年左右所以我們天安特檢的慣例都是說\n我們會把全機做一個全面性的檢查檢查完之後確認安全的一個因素有被確保之後呢那我們就像剛剛講的我們會秉持這個先訓教官再訓學員然後先執行低風險然後教官資格連財交付待會方慢慢循逐步來執行最後來恢復正常的訓練因為我們不可能說\n這個等到這個一年後造勢的原因確定我再請教一下部長因為我有看到因為我就是有看到你們裡面的報告裡面有提到像機械因素分析這個部分有提到就是說你們會依據飛行員的訪談證實錄音操監跟修圍護記錄等事證我想請教一下像這個我們這個編號1130的這個永英高校機它在這個飛行之前它所謂的修圍護這個記錄\n裡面他到底過去有沒有所謂的異常的這個狀況在失事之前的休維護的紀錄這個部分要不要請那個因為畢竟去年五月才首飛嘛所以這個部分的話我想了解一下跟委員報告現在已經成立了失事專案小組在這個部分在失事前的休維護紀錄應該是\n目前就這個之前的記錄來看是沒有問題但是這一個整個的還是要由專案這個人員在專案小組來做最後的一個報告所以之前都沒有問題嗎就像我們所說的這36架的2月27日我們已經完成妥善計36架這個36架的這個咏陰高校劇就跟這個1130一樣嘛就是檢查的時候都沒有問題\n就突然間2月15號它就失勢了雙發動機就失效了這會不會發生在其他的高焦跡的身上呢會嗎所以現在就是說我們不能夠排除任何的噪音嘛那所以說現在\n之前的修復紀錄不管它有沒有問題我們之後還是要看是機械因素、維修的因素、人因的因素、環境因素等等我們都是要來加以部長剛剛有提到說可能要等到一年後才知道這個1130到底發生了什麼事情\n剩下来的这些机型这些这些我们所谓的妥善机是不是之后我们也会担心非安的这个问题这是本席在你们的报告里面所看到的一些状况好那再来还有一点时间我想请教一下就是说有关于我这个国防议算的这个编列我们可以看到\n看到就是說從小英總統就任之後我們可以看到我們這個國防預算呢佔這個GDP的比率是不斷的這個升高尤其到了114年呢我們這國防預算來到了這個佔GDP的2.45%\n其實已經達到了這個北約所定的這個2%GDP2%的這個基數了可是呢我們看到就是說美國的這個智庫學者或者是官員都提到說這其實是不夠的甚至提到說提升到5%10%都有那在這個2月\n14號的時候賴清德總統就宣示了我們在這個2026年的時候我們要來優先編列這個特別預算會將這個國防預算提高到3%我們再算一下如果是以這個2025年的這個\n2025年佔GDP26.4493億為座這個基數計算的話我們到時明年的國防預算可能會來到將近8000億那像這個增加的這個這個預算的話未來我們有沒有想到就是說會朝向會去做怎麼樣的一個\n一個計畫是說我們是以採購不對稱作戰或是研發不對稱作戰的武器或是來汰換這個長年未更換的一些老舊的軍武我們有沒有朝向哪一個方向因為我看到有些已經超過20年像現在有一個現役有6架12K的這個航空預警機已經超過20年了甚至有些這個巡防隊也超過服役30年我們是朝向哪一個目標跟計畫先請問\n跟委員報告一個是有關籌獲的這個我們著重的面向那著重面向大概四個不對稱的關鍵戰力然後作戰的韌性指管與作戰韌性然後第三個就是後備戰力後備我們現在後備戰力要快速提升那第四個我們還是要應處這個\n灰色地帶的威脅這個部分我們還是要朝這個四大面向那我們籌貨的這個管道當然不只是軍購也有商售然後也有我們國防自主的生產那相關的總統宣示就是說我們提高到3%那我們現在就光部會就這個四大的面向然後來\n看看這個相關的可以快速形成站立的籌貨的管道途徑來編列這個相關的這些預算那如果為了避免排擠到這一個一般的這個年度的公務預算的話當然也不排除我們就提出特別預算\nOK 好 了解那當然就是2026年我們就要提出來要提高到3%那金額是將近8000億我在想 我在想這部分可能就是要提早來做這個準備那除了這個軍備的準備之外我想這個國軍人力的這個訓練也很重要像這個的部分不可能說你武器買進來之後你再來做培訓我想這個部分也需要有一個具體的這個計畫好 以上謝謝好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.030 --> 00:01.911\n謝謝主席有請顧部長是羅委員好\n\n00:12.226 --> 00:33.343\n部長好部長這個永英高校機失事到現在已經將滿一個月那所幸當時飛行員林少校是跳傘成功也成功被救援可是失事的原因到目前為止還是不是很明朗這主要是因為我們機體到目前為止都還沒有打到上來嘛對不對\n\n00:34.644 --> 00:48.297\n機體到現在都還沒有打到上來跟委員報告在應該是昨天的下午那個前機身的部分打到上來所以已經尋獲這個黑盒子\n\n00:50.258 --> 01:06.610\n所以現在就這個黑盒子的部分,我們會後續要完成解讀,然後依照它相關的記錄,依循這個人陰機械或環境等上大面向來逐一探討這個逝世的噪音。\n\n01:07.310 --> 01:22.351\n所以黑盒子已經找到了所以很快我們就可以來判讀那我剛才看到你們的這個報告裡面有提到就是說我們空軍是依據這個飛行員的訪談證詞目前是朝向就是說應該就是機械故障的這個原因\n\n01:24.293 --> 01:49.446\n跟委員稍微補充一下因為委員那個召委定的題目是施事後的檢修情況所以我還是要再澄清一下我們這個施事後的檢修情況是說因為我們要實施天安特檢所以我們就將這個有關機械的因素的部分大概分成四類十二項我們來進行檢修但是我們並沒有確定它是什麼原因\n\n01:51.307 --> 02:09.154\n並沒有就馬上斷定說這個是哪一項的因素我們依照慣例都是還是要尋人因機械環境這個因素等三大面向來探討是不是原因那特別現在黑盒子已經這個打到上來嘛那我們當然要來解讀\n\n02:10.634 --> 02:30.865\n因為這份報告出來的時候我在想黑盒子因為那時候還沒黑盒子還沒有找到之前我在想說我們就已經淩了這個報告我們這份報告只是在講我們檢修的部分檢修的部分特別誠心地講沒有在說明到什麼原因是要提到就是說因為我們3月5號我們就付費了嘛\n\n02:31.425 --> 02:34.807\n3月5號我們就要講到目前為止我們看起來這個失事的原因到底是人為因素還是機械故障的原因到目前都還不確定嘛那當然我有看到就是說我們有委託漢祥公司執行非記者維保的作業當然也做了前機隊的檢查\n\n02:58.320 --> 03:19.458\n看起來好像36架都沒問題剩下的5架可能就要出場之前再來執行它的這個檢測嘛你們的報告裡面提的是這樣子可是如果這樣子的話所以我們就想說這架詠音師這高叫機到目前它這個失事的原因的未明之下我們居然還可以在三月五號這麼快就復飛那難道這樣子就沒有這個飛安的餘力嗎我想了解的是這個部分\n\n03:24.802 --> 03:46.847\n跟委員報告我們過去這個相關包括幻象的或者是其他F16這些如果有任何這個不幸失事的這個情況的話我們都會進行天安特檢天安特檢有檢查的項目那我們不可能說我們不可能說等到整個\n\n03:47.387 --> 04:04.880\n肇事的原因把它確定之後我們才進行付費因為肇事的原因的判斷通常按照現在相關的應該都要到一年一年左右所以我們天安特檢的慣例都是說\n\n04:06.000 --> 04:33.008\n我們會把全機做一個全面性的檢查檢查完之後確認安全的一個因素有被確保之後呢那我們就像剛剛講的我們會秉持這個先訓教官再訓學員然後先執行低風險然後教官資格連財交付待會方慢慢循逐步來執行最後來恢復正常的訓練因為我們不可能說\n\n04:34.608 --> 04:50.075\n這個等到這個一年後造勢的原因確定我再請教一下部長因為我有看到因為我就是有看到你們裡面的報告裡面有提到像機械因素分析這個部分有提到就是說你們會依據飛行員的訪談證實錄音操監跟修圍護記錄等事證我想請教一下像這個我們這個編號1130的這個永英高校機它在這個飛行之前它所謂的修圍護這個記錄\n\n05:03.941 --> 05:28.541\n裡面他到底過去有沒有所謂的異常的這個狀況在失事之前的休維護的紀錄這個部分要不要請那個因為畢竟去年五月才首飛嘛所以這個部分的話我想了解一下跟委員報告現在已經成立了失事專案小組在這個部分在失事前的休維護紀錄應該是\n\n05:30.546 --> 05:59.181\n目前就這個之前的記錄來看是沒有問題但是這一個整個的還是要由專案這個人員在專案小組來做最後的一個報告所以之前都沒有問題嗎就像我們所說的這36架的2月27日我們已經完成妥善計36架這個36架的這個咏陰高校劇就跟這個1130一樣嘛就是檢查的時候都沒有問題\n\n06:00.101 --> 06:16.670\n就突然間2月15號它就失勢了雙發動機就失效了這會不會發生在其他的高焦跡的身上呢會嗎所以現在就是說我們不能夠排除任何的噪音嘛那所以說現在\n\n06:18.399 --> 06:35.334\n之前的修復紀錄不管它有沒有問題我們之後還是要看是機械因素、維修的因素、人因的因素、環境因素等等我們都是要來加以部長剛剛有提到說可能要等到一年後才知道這個1130到底發生了什麼事情\n\n06:36.455 --> 06:59.533\n剩下来的这些机型这些这些我们所谓的妥善机是不是之后我们也会担心非安的这个问题这是本席在你们的报告里面所看到的一些状况好那再来还有一点时间我想请教一下就是说有关于我这个国防议算的这个编列我们可以看到\n\n06:59.993 --> 07:11.947\n看到就是說從小英總統就任之後我們可以看到我們這個國防預算呢佔這個GDP的比率是不斷的這個升高尤其到了114年呢我們這國防預算來到了這個佔GDP的2.45%\n\n07:18.633 --> 07:35.660\n其實已經達到了這個北約所定的這個2%GDP2%的這個基數了可是呢我們看到就是說美國的這個智庫學者或者是官員都提到說這其實是不夠的甚至提到說提升到5%10%都有那在這個2月\n\n07:39.381 --> 07:42.344\n14號的時候賴清德總統就宣示了我們在這個2026年的時候我們要來優先編列這個特別預算會將這個國防預算提高到3%我們再算一下如果是以這個2025年的這個\n\n08:01.440 --> 08:22.146\n2025年佔GDP26.4493億為座這個基數計算的話我們到時明年的國防預算可能會來到將近8000億那像這個增加的這個這個預算的話未來我們有沒有想到就是說會朝向會去做怎麼樣的一個\n\n08:24.110 --> 08:53.102\n一個計畫是說我們是以採購不對稱作戰或是研發不對稱作戰的武器或是來汰換這個長年未更換的一些老舊的軍武我們有沒有朝向哪一個方向因為我看到有些已經超過20年像現在有一個現役有6架12K的這個航空預警機已經超過20年了甚至有些這個巡防隊也超過服役30年我們是朝向哪一個目標跟計畫先請問\n\n08:54.382 --> 09:14.882\n跟委員報告一個是有關籌獲的這個我們著重的面向那著重面向大概四個不對稱的關鍵戰力然後作戰的韌性指管與作戰韌性然後第三個就是後備戰力後備我們現在後備戰力要快速提升那第四個我們還是要應處這個\n\n09:17.024 --> 09:42.075\n灰色地帶的威脅這個部分我們還是要朝這個四大面向那我們籌貨的這個管道當然不只是軍購也有商售然後也有我們國防自主的生產那相關的總統宣示就是說我們提高到3%那我們現在就光部會就這個四大的面向然後來\n\n09:43.395 --> 10:02.575\n看看這個相關的可以快速形成站立的籌貨的管道途徑來編列這個相關的這些預算那如果為了避免排擠到這一個一般的這個年度的公務預算的話當然也不排除我們就提出特別預算\n\n10:04.096 --> 10:14.321\nOK好了解那當然就是2026年我們就要提出來要提高到3%那金額是將近8000億我在想我在想這部分可能就是要提早來做這個準備那除了這個軍備的準備之外我想這個國軍人力的這個訓練也很重要像這個的部分不可能說你武器買進來之後你再來做培訓我想這個部分也需要有一個具體的這個計畫好以上謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.03,"end":1.911,"text":"謝謝主席 有請顧部長是 羅委員好"},{"start":12.226,"end":33.343,"text":"部長好 部長這個永英高校機失事到現在已經將滿一個月那所幸當時飛行員林少校是跳傘成功 也成功被救援可是失事的原因到目前為止還是不是很明朗這主要是因為我們機體到目前為止都還沒有打到上來嘛 對不對"},{"start":34.644,"end":48.297,"text":"機體到現在都還沒有打到上來跟委員報告在應該是昨天的下午那個前機身的部分打到上來所以已經尋獲這個黑盒子"},{"start":50.258,"end":66.61,"text":"所以現在就這個黑盒子的部分,我們會後續要完成解讀,然後依照它相關的記錄,依循這個人陰機械或環境等上大面向來逐一探討這個逝世的噪音。"},{"start":67.31,"end":82.351,"text":"所以黑盒子已經找到了所以很快我們就可以來判讀那我剛才看到你們的這個報告裡面有提到就是說我們空軍是依據這個飛行員的訪談證詞目前是朝向就是說應該就是機械故障的這個原因"},{"start":84.293,"end":109.446,"text":"跟委員稍微補充一下因為委員那個召委定的題目是施事後的檢修情況所以我還是要再澄清一下我們這個施事後的檢修情況是說因為我們要實施天安特檢所以我們就將這個有關機械的因素的部分大概分成四類十二項我們來進行檢修但是我們並沒有確定它是什麼原因"},{"start":111.307,"end":129.154,"text":"並沒有就馬上斷定說這個是哪一項的因素我們依照慣例都是還是要尋人因機械環境這個因素等三大面向來探討是不是原因那特別現在黑盒子已經這個打到上來嘛那我們當然要來解讀"},{"start":130.634,"end":150.865,"text":"因為這份報告出來的時候我在想黑盒子 因為那時候還沒黑盒子還沒有找到之前 我在想說我們就已經淩了這個報告我們這份報告只是在講我們檢修的部分 檢修的部分特別誠心地講沒有在說明到什麼原因是要提到就是說因為我們3月5號我們就付費了嘛"},{"start":151.425,"end":154.807,"text":"3月5號我們就要講到目前為止我們看起來這個失事的原因到底是人為因素還是機械故障的原因到目前都還不確定嘛那當然我有看到就是說我們有委託漢祥公司執行非記者維保的作業當然也做了前機隊的檢查"},{"start":178.32,"end":199.458,"text":"看起來好像36架都沒問題剩下的5架可能就要出場之前再來執行它的這個檢測嘛你們的報告裡面提的是這樣子可是如果這樣子的話所以我們就想說這架詠音師這高叫機到目前它這個失事的原因的未明之下我們居然還可以在三月五號這麼快就復飛那難道這樣子就沒有這個飛安的餘力嗎我想了解的是這個部分"},{"start":204.802,"end":226.847,"text":"跟委員報告我們過去這個相關包括幻象的或者是其他F16這些如果有任何這個不幸失事的這個情況的話我們都會進行天安特檢天安特檢有檢查的項目那我們不可能說我們不可能說等到整個"},{"start":227.387,"end":244.88,"text":"肇事的原因把它確定之後我們才進行付費因為肇事的原因的判斷通常按照現在相關的應該都要到一年一年左右所以我們天安特檢的慣例都是說"},{"start":246,"end":273.008,"text":"我們會把全機做一個全面性的檢查檢查完之後確認安全的一個因素有被確保之後呢那我們就像剛剛講的我們會秉持這個先訓教官再訓學員然後先執行低風險然後教官資格連財交付待會方慢慢循逐步來執行最後來恢復正常的訓練因為我們不可能說"},{"start":274.608,"end":290.075,"text":"這個等到這個一年後造勢的原因確定我再請教一下部長因為我有看到因為我就是有看到你們裡面的報告裡面有提到像機械因素分析這個部分有提到就是說你們會依據飛行員的訪談證實錄音操監跟修圍護記錄等事證我想請教一下像這個我們這個編號1130的這個永英高校機它在這個飛行之前它所謂的修圍護這個記錄"},{"start":303.941,"end":328.541,"text":"裡面他到底過去有沒有所謂的異常的這個狀況在失事之前的休維護的紀錄這個部分要不要請那個因為畢竟去年五月才首飛嘛所以這個部分的話我想了解一下跟委員報告現在已經成立了失事專案小組在這個部分在失事前的休維護紀錄應該是"},{"start":330.546,"end":359.181,"text":"目前就這個之前的記錄來看是沒有問題但是這一個整個的還是要由專案這個人員在專案小組來做最後的一個報告所以之前都沒有問題嗎就像我們所說的這36架的2月27日我們已經完成妥善計36架這個36架的這個咏陰高校劇就跟這個1130一樣嘛就是檢查的時候都沒有問題"},{"start":360.101,"end":376.67,"text":"就突然間2月15號它就失勢了雙發動機就失效了這會不會發生在其他的高焦跡的身上呢會嗎所以現在就是說我們不能夠排除任何的噪音嘛那所以說現在"},{"start":378.399,"end":395.334,"text":"之前的修復紀錄不管它有沒有問題我們之後還是要看是機械因素、維修的因素、人因的因素、環境因素等等我們都是要來加以部長剛剛有提到說可能要等到一年後才知道這個1130到底發生了什麼事情"},{"start":396.455,"end":419.533,"text":"剩下来的这些机型这些这些我们所谓的妥善机是不是之后我们也会担心非安的这个问题这是本席在你们的报告里面所看到的一些状况好那再来还有一点时间我想请教一下就是说有关于我这个国防议算的这个编列我们可以看到"},{"start":419.993,"end":431.947,"text":"看到就是說從小英總統就任之後我們可以看到我們這個國防預算呢佔這個GDP的比率是不斷的這個升高尤其到了114年呢我們這國防預算來到了這個佔GDP的2.45%"},{"start":438.633,"end":455.66,"text":"其實已經達到了這個北約所定的這個2%GDP2%的這個基數了可是呢我們看到就是說美國的這個智庫學者或者是官員都提到說這其實是不夠的甚至提到說提升到5%10%都有那在這個2月"},{"start":459.381,"end":462.344,"text":"14號的時候賴清德總統就宣示了我們在這個2026年的時候我們要來優先編列這個特別預算會將這個國防預算提高到3%我們再算一下如果是以這個2025年的這個"},{"start":481.44,"end":502.146,"text":"2025年佔GDP26.4493億為座這個基數計算的話我們到時明年的國防預算可能會來到將近8000億那像這個增加的這個這個預算的話未來我們有沒有想到就是說會朝向會去做怎麼樣的一個"},{"start":504.11,"end":533.102,"text":"一個計畫是說我們是以採購不對稱作戰或是研發不對稱作戰的武器或是來汰換這個長年未更換的一些老舊的軍武我們有沒有朝向哪一個方向因為我看到有些已經超過20年像現在有一個現役有6架12K的這個航空預警機已經超過20年了甚至有些這個巡防隊也超過服役30年我們是朝向哪一個目標跟計畫先請問"},{"start":534.382,"end":554.882,"text":"跟委員報告一個是有關籌獲的這個我們著重的面向那著重面向大概四個不對稱的關鍵戰力然後作戰的韌性指管與作戰韌性然後第三個就是後備戰力後備我們現在後備戰力要快速提升那第四個我們還是要應處這個"},{"start":557.024,"end":582.075,"text":"灰色地帶的威脅這個部分我們還是要朝這個四大面向那我們籌貨的這個管道當然不只是軍購也有商售然後也有我們國防自主的生產那相關的總統宣示就是說我們提高到3%那我們現在就光部會就這個四大的面向然後來"},{"start":583.395,"end":602.575,"text":"看看這個相關的可以快速形成站立的籌貨的管道途徑來編列這個相關的這些預算那如果為了避免排擠到這一個一般的這個年度的公務預算的話當然也不排除我們就提出特別預算"},{"start":604.096,"end":614.321,"text":"OK 好 了解那當然就是2026年我們就要提出來要提高到3%那金額是將近8000億我在想 我在想這部分可能就是要提早來做這個準備那除了這個軍備的準備之外我想這個國軍人力的這個訓練也很重要像這個的部分不可能說你武器買進來之後你再來做培訓我想這個部分也需要有一個具體的這個計畫好 以上謝謝好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":87,"blocks":[["羅委員美玲：（9時15分）謝謝主席，有請顧部長。"],["顧部長立雄：羅委員好。"],["羅委員美玲：部長好。部長，勇鷹高教機失事到現在將滿一個月，所幸當時飛行員林少校跳傘成功，也成功被教援，可是失事的原因到目前為止還不是很明朗，最主要是因為機體到目前為止都還沒有打撈上來，對不對？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，昨天下午前機身的部分有打撈上來……"],["羅委員美玲：前機身？"],["顧部長立雄：有尋獲黑盒子等，所以現在要就黑盒子的部分，我們後續要完成解讀，依照它相關的紀錄、依循人因、機械或環境等三大面向逐一探討失事的肇因。"],["羅委員美玲：黑盒子已經找到了，所以很快我們就可以判讀。我剛剛看到你們在報告裡面提到，空軍是依據飛行員的訪談證詞，目前應該是朝向機械故障的這個原因……"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員稍微補充一下，因為召委定的題目是「……失事後檢修情況」，所以我還是要再澄清一下，這個失事後的檢修情況是，因為我們要實施天安特檢，所以就將有關機械因素的部分大概分成4類12項進行檢修，但是我們……"],["羅委員美玲：還是沒有確定它是什麼原因？"],["顧部長立雄：我們並沒有馬上就斷定這是哪一項的因素，我們依照慣例都還是要循人因、機械、環境因素等三大面向來探討失事的原因，特別是現在黑盒子已經打撈上來了，我們當然要來解讀，所以……"],["羅委員美玲：因為這份報告出來的時候，我在想黑盒子……因為那時候在黑盒子還沒找到之前，我在想說就已經擬了這份報告。"],["顧部長立雄：這份報告只是在講我們檢修的部分……"],["羅委員美玲：OK。"],["顧部長立雄：特別澄清一下，報告沒有在說明肇事的原因。"],["羅委員美玲：好。本席最主要是在提到，因為3月5號就復飛了，是不是？"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["羅委員美玲：3月5號勇鷹高教機就復飛了，本席要講的就是，因為到目前為止，看起來這個失事的原因到底是人為操作因素，還是機械故障的原因，到目前都還不確定。當然我有看到，我們有委託漢翔公司執行飛機維保的作業，也做了全機隊的檢查，看起來好像36架都沒問題，剩下的5架可能要在出廠之前再來執行它的檢測嘛！在你們的報告裡面提的是這樣子，可是如果是這樣的話，我就想說，這架勇鷹高教機到目前失事原因都未明的情況之下，我們居然還可以在3月5號這麼快就復飛，難道這樣子就沒有飛安的疑慮嗎？我想瞭解的是這個部分。"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我們過去有關幻象或是其他F-16的這些報告，如果有任何不幸失事的情況，我們都會進行天安特檢，天安特檢有檢查的項目，我們不可能等到整個肇事的原因都確定之後才進行復飛，因為肇事原因的判斷，通常按照現在相關的應該都要到一年左右。"],["羅委員美玲：要一年以後？"],["顧部長立雄：對，所以天安特檢的慣例都是，我們會把全機做一個全面性的檢查，檢查完之後確認安全的因素有被確保之後，我們就像剛剛講的，我們會秉持先訓教官再訓學員，先執行低風險，教官資格人員採交互帶飛方式，慢慢循逐步執行，最後再恢復正常的訓練。因為我們不可能等到一年後肇事的原因確定……"],["羅委員美玲：我再請教一下部長，因為我看你們的報告裡面有提到，像「機械因素分析」這個部分就提到，你們會「依據飛行員訪談證詞、錄音抄件、修維護紀錄等事證」，我想請教一下，像這個編號1130的勇鷹高教機在飛行之前，在它所謂的修維護紀錄裡面，它過去到底有沒有所謂「異常」的狀況？"],["顧部長立雄：在失事之前修維護紀錄的這個部分，要不要請那個……"],["王參謀長德揚：跟委員報告……"],["羅委員美玲：因為它畢竟是去年5月才首飛嘛！所以這個部分，我想瞭解一下。"],["王參謀長德揚：跟委員報告，現在已經成立了失事專案小組，在這個部分……"],["顧部長立雄：失事前的維護紀錄應該是……"],["王參謀長德揚：目前就之前的紀錄來看是沒有問題，但是這整個還是要由專案的人員、專案小組來做最後的報告。"],["羅委員美玲：所以之前都沒有問題嘛！"],["王參謀長德揚：是。"],["羅委員美玲：就像我們所說的，這36架在2月27日已經完成妥善的……這36架的勇鷹高教機就跟這個1130一樣，就是在檢查的時候都沒有問題，結果突然間它在2月15號就失事了。"],["顧部長立雄：對，所以……"],["羅委員美玲：雙發動機就失效了？"],["顧部長立雄：所以……"],["羅委員美玲：這會不會發生在其他高教機的身上呢？會嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：所以現在就是說，我們不能夠排除任何的肇因，而之前的修護紀錄，不管它有沒有問題，我們之後還是要看是機械因素、維修的因素、人為的因素、環境因素等等，我們都要加以來……"],["羅委員美玲：對，部長剛剛有提到，說是可能要等到一年後才知道這架1130到底發生了什麼事情，所以剩下來的這些機型，也就是所謂的妥善機，是不是之後也會擔心飛安的問題，這是本席在你們的報告裡面所看到的一些狀況。","再來還有一點時間，我想請教一下，就是有關於我國國防預算的編列。我們可以看到，從小英總統就任之後，國防預算占GDP的比率是不斷地升高，尤其到了114年，我們的國防預算來到了占GDP的2.45%，其實已經達到了北約所定占GDP2%的基數了，可是我們看到，美國的智庫學者或者是官員都提到，這其實是不夠的，甚至提到要提升到5%、10%的都有。在2月14號的時候，賴清德總統就宣示了我們在2026年的時候，要優先編列特別預算，會將國防預算提高到3%。","我們大概算了一下，如果是以2025年占GDP……以26兆4,493億為基數計算的話，我們明年的國防預算可能會來到將近8,000億。像增加的這個預算，未來我們有沒有想到會朝向、會去做怎麼樣的計畫？也就是說，我們是以採購不對稱作戰或者是研發不對稱作戰的武器，或是汰換長年未更換的一些老舊的軍武，我們有沒有朝哪一個方向在做？","因為我看到有些已經超過20年，像現役有6架E-2K的航空預警機就已經超過20年了，甚至有些巡防隊也服役超過30年，我們是朝向哪一個目標跟計畫？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，一個是有關籌獲的面向，我們著重的面向大概有四個：不對稱的關鍵戰力、指管與作戰韌性，第三個就是後備戰力，我們現在的後備戰力要快速提升，第四個，我們還是要應處灰色地帶的威脅，這個部分我們還是要朝這四大面向。我們籌獲的管道當然不只是軍購，也有商售，然後也有我們國防自主的生產。"],["羅委員美玲：自主研發。"],["顧部長立雄：總統的宣示是，我們提高到3%，現在國防部會就這四大面向看看相關可以快速形成戰力的籌獲管道、途徑，來編列相關的這些預算，為了避免排擠到一般的年度公務預算，當然也不排除我們就提出特別預算。"],["羅委員美玲：特別預算，是，了解。","我們提出來2026年要提高到3%，金額將近8,000億，我想這部分可能要提早做準備，除了軍備的準備之外，我想國軍人力的訓練也很重要，像這個部分你不可能武器買進來之後再做培訓，我想這個部分也需要有一個具體的計畫。以上，謝謝。"],["顧部長立雄：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝羅美玲委員的發言，兩位請回座。","接下來由陳冠廷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":120,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-2","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","陳冠廷","林楚茵","陳永康","陳俊宇","沈伯洋","馬文君","徐巧芯","黃國昌","邱志偉","林憶君","王定宇","羅智強"],"page_start":83,"meetingDate":["2025-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1142701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長報告「國機國造交機進度及勇鷹高教機失事後檢修情況」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142701_00002"}}}