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{\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 632.702, \"end\": 632.862, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 632.862, \"end\": 633.042, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 633.042, \"end\": 633.262, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 633.262, \"end\": 633.402, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"殊\", \"start\": 633.402, \"end\": 633.562, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 633.562, \"end\": 633.883, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 633.883, \"end\": 633.983, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 633.983, \"end\": 634.083, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 634.083, \"end\": 634.403, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 634.403, \"end\": 634.583, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 634.583, \"end\": 634.783, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 634.783, \"end\": 634.903, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"感\", \"start\": 634.903, \"end\": 635.083, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 635.083, \"end\": 635.323, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 635.323, \"end\": 635.443, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 635.443, \"end\": 635.684, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 635.684, \"end\": 635.704, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,325 --> 00:00:06,499\n好謝謝主席我是不是請一下陳代理主委請陳代理主委\n\n2\n00:00:14,864 --> 00:00:40,560\n邱委員早早代理主委我想這個您擔任副主委的期間有多長4年4年了那好像非常少有機會讓您站到備詢台這個尤記我們去年我在質詢的時候已經有先預判到萬一公平會主委有懸缺的時候萬一這個人事案\n\n3\n00:00:41,400 --> 00:01:08,068\n沒有辦法通過的時候會面臨到什麼狀況很快的現在就是這樣的一個狀態那這個公平會的人事案呢李美跟洪才龍被聯手封殺所以你們原來是有七席的委員現在剩下五席嘛對不對您剛的報告其實講了非常多你們的業務我要請教一下現在剩下五席的狀況\n\n4\n00:01:10,409 --> 00:01:24,689\n業務運作會不會受到影響你們的會議品質會不會受到影響萬一中間有遇到委員必須要利益迴避的案件的時候會不會有產生人數不足導致沒有辦法開會那\n\n5\n00:01:26,571 --> 00:01:49,067\n要怎麼做來先就有利益衝突要迴避的時候我想這個可能性是有的如果說真的遇到有利益迴避那委員必須要迴避有可能會遇到人數不足的問題是那至於業務的那你們公民會的業務很顯然就會立刻受到影響就會受到影響會就開不成了對是會有這樣的問題不過這個案子我們希望也不要太多要不然就沒辦法處理了\n\n6\n00:01:49,907 --> 00:02:03,857\n你希望不要太多但是有些案子不是你能夠掌控的啊對不對有一些你的這些公平交易的案子送上來不是你主委說這個我要接這個我不接這個可能會有利益迴避的問題所以我就不接所以未來的這個情況\n\n7\n00:02:05,805 --> 00:02:28,841\n有可能還是會持續的發生會持續的存在公平會的運作裡頭嗎是不是這樣好這個呢剛剛我想這個我們提到了很多的這些案件副主委您自己怎麼樣定位即使你現在是代理的主委你怎麼樣定位您現在的角色跟未來的方向我可不可以聽一下您的看法\n\n8\n00:02:29,912 --> 00:02:43,650\n我想現在是代理主委嘛那理論就是我做的工作就是主委做的工作所以主委所應該要盡到的責任當然就是我必須盡到的責任那對於未來的規劃我想公平會過去長期的執法已經建立了一些規範\n\n9\n00:02:45,012 --> 00:03:09,913\n這些規範基本上如果可行而且運作上沒有障礙我會持續的遵循這些規劃當然有些地方是需要改進的那這個部分我也會積極來跟同仁來做溝通過去很多時候我們在立法院裡頭包括你們的法規的修訂啦包括你們的案件審查的時序啦或者是等等這一些其實有過非常多的討論但是我們過去很少\n\n10\n00:03:11,174 --> 00:03:22,842\n應該是說比較少討論到你們的預算被刪減之後對公平會所產生的影響主委我想跟您請教一下如果就\n\n11\n00:03:24,113 --> 00:03:31,256\n我們通過的總預算公平匯你們的預算是被刪除526萬並凍結業務費30%這30%大概是1200多萬\n\n12\n00:03:41,420 --> 00:03:56,865\n那看起來好像對你們的影響不是太大因為這個錢其實很少但是呢你們在南部聯合服務中心有派駐兩位同仁喔雖然我的總的這個預算刪減沒有刪減到你這個部分但是南部\n\n13\n00:03:58,144 --> 00:04:20,564\n聯合服務中心的業務費是被刪掉百分之百請問你們這兩位同仁還能不能上班還能不能執行業務要不要去執行業務該如何執行業務主委可不可以請問一下就跟剛剛委員所講的因為南部預算中心南部中心的預算並不是在我們會裡面這邊來負責當然實質上也會影響到所以那個部分\n\n14\n00:04:21,465 --> 00:04:49,896\n其實說實在我也沒辦法提出一個什麼解決方法因為這個就是就是整體的我不要叫你提出解決方法我現在要知道是說你們的運作模式會不會受到影響比如說你現在南部中心的業務百分之百業務費都被刪除了嘛所以他在執行業務上面就會有很多的困難嘛水電衛生紙基本的文書需求等等這些都在業務費的向下嘛那你們的同仁要怎麼辦自備\n\n15\n00:04:51,485 --> 00:05:15,677\n衛生紙自備紙筆自備所有要開會的東西還是說這些東西從台北運送下來從台北帶下來還是你這兩位同仁乾脆就直接回到台北上班同仁還是在上班啦只是說在上班的過程在南部上班在南部上班那他們現在的上班情況呢工作狀況有沒有受到什麼重大的影響\n\n16\n00:05:18,989 --> 00:05:32,486\n這個不業務會持續的執行有人了解一下嗎對但是我們業務實施執行因為預算的三節也會的確會影響到某些一些業務推廣但是我們還是盡量不要讓它影響到民眾的權益這個\n\n17\n00:05:34,605 --> 00:06:00,773\n主委可能公平會並不直接第一線那麼多的接觸民眾所以你大概還不知道你們現在的業務被刪減之後你會面臨到的問題我就舉一個剛剛您的報告裡頭提到參與國際重要會議我不曉得您這個報告是什麼時候寫的那你講的很重要的是你們有很多國際交流跟政策的推動對不對是好\n\n18\n00:06:01,753 --> 00:06:25,186\n你知道你的國際旅費被刪多少錢嗎60%你被刪了60%然後你洋洋灑灑跟我寫了這麼多你要做的國際交流請問你要怎麼做我只問你這一條就好跟委員報告一下我們寫的是過去已經做了未來的確已經受到影響我可以跟委員講就是說將來參與國際事務目前我們已經受到很大的一個限制\n\n19\n00:06:25,706 --> 00:06:54,699\n那可能影響到的就是將來派出去同仁授訓或是跟國外交流的人數我們必須要控管甚至有些會議我們就沒辦法參加了所以的確是有產生因為這個63%減對國際業務推展所以未來會怎麼樣我們還是這是一個挑戰所以主委啊我覺得你剛剛的業務報告啊你其實應該很清楚告訴大家現在的預算刪減到這樣的時候對於你業務所產生的影響你不是報喜不報憂啊你現在講的這些東西都是你未來做的\n\n20\n00:06:56,019 --> 00:07:20,130\n持續性的常態性你們都會做這些國際交流嘛我現在只有跟你講一個國際交流你被刪了60%你有很多工作是不能做的其實你應該在業務報告的時候提出來啊否則我們在檢討你的業務的時候發現你業務報告講一堆結果你沒有辦法做到那其實也是你帶乎職守啊這個立法委員就職下來還是罵你雖然預算是他們砍的\n\n21\n00:07:21,894 --> 00:07:44,740\n所以我覺得這個東西很務實的要去面對預算被刪減了之後你的整體業務推動會面臨到什麼樣的困境你其實在這一期的業務報告裡頭你就要很清楚的講所以我接下來要再請教您一個問題剛剛在講到這個聯合壟斷的事情公平會其實處理很多叫聯合壟斷這個叫做配鎖工會\n\n22\n00:07:50,459 --> 00:08:13,358\n這些鎖匙鎖匙的這些工會他們最近接到你們的警告說呢他們這個工會有一個聯合定價的標準這個已經行之多年了從民國78年成立以來他們就有一些參考的價目但是你們現在發了一個警告函給他你說這個叫違法這個叫聯合壟斷\n\n23\n00:08:16,545 --> 00:08:36,113\n所以這些工會的人就很緊張啊他對民國七十八年開始就大家討論說啊我這配色差不多是太多開色差不多是太多大家有一個range有一個收費的標準不會讓人家隨便哄抬價格過去的運作都很順利結果你現在跟他說你這叫做聯合壟斷他啊我可能會跟你開罰\n\n24\n00:08:41,045 --> 00:08:59,797\n這是一個所使公會提到的去年有很多醫生來跟我反映掛號費衛福部說可以漲價所以醫師公會他們就去討論了掛號費到底要怎麼漲可以漲多少所以醫師公會大概有討論了一個range結果醫師公會也收到你們警告信說這個叫聯合壟斷\n\n25\n00:09:02,571 --> 00:09:22,683\n到底聯合壟斷的定義是什麼如果他訂定了一個合理的收費標準收費範圍這樣是不是也叫聯合壟斷法條上面是這樣子解釋的嗎主委我請教一下跟委員報告一下聯合行為在公平法裡面是規範最嚴格的行為就是說原則上你就是不能做聯合行為\n\n26\n00:09:23,223 --> 00:09:48,559\n當然委員有談到配所有一個合理的Range讓消費者知道大概要多少錢這個其實都可以依照公平法第15條的規定來申請豁免我們是有提供業者可以集體來提供豁免你這樣有哪些行業是可以申請豁免或是說這些工會要自己個別去申請你們有人去跟他們做過這樣子的溝通或者是說明或者是宣導嗎宣導都有但是申請還是他們必須要主動來申請\n\n27\n00:09:49,600 --> 00:10:08,449\n透過工會等等來申請那我現在跟你舉例的這個例子比如說他現在收到了你們這個警告信他如果是可以符合豁免的是不是也能夠請你們主動來再去跟他們說明一下再去宣導然後通知他們來申請豁免我覺得有一些行業要避免被\n\n28\n00:10:09,429 --> 00:10:35,704\n胡亂烘台價格被胡亂收費所以它有可能產生一個訂費訂收費的標準但是我不認為這個叫聯合壟斷當然你認為在公平交易法裡頭訂定的非常清楚可是我覺得有一些定義或者是說有一些行業別你還是要把它做為稍微有一點區分這個部分是不是能夠請你們是我們會讓民眾知道在公平法對於這些特殊情況的一些可行的感到OK謝謝好\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1325\t6499\t好 謝謝主席我是不是請一下陳代理主委請陳代理主委\n14864\t40560\t邱委員早 早 代理主委我想這個您擔任副主委的期間有多長4年 4年了那好像非常少有機會讓您站到備詢台這個尤記我們去年我在質詢的時候已經有先預判到萬一公平會主委有懸缺的時候萬一這個人事案\n41400\t68068\t沒有辦法通過的時候會面臨到什麼狀況很快的現在就是這樣的一個狀態那這個公平會的人事案呢李美跟洪才龍被聯手封殺所以你們原來是有七席的委員現在剩下五席嘛對不對您剛的報告其實講了非常多你們的業務我要請教一下現在剩下五席的狀況\n70409\t84689\t業務運作會不會受到影響你們的會議品質會不會受到影響萬一中間有遇到委員必須要利益迴避的案件的時候會不會有產生人數不足導致沒有辦法開會那\n86571\t109067\t要怎麼做來先就有利益衝突要迴避的時候我想這個可能性是有的如果說真的遇到有利益迴避那委員必須要迴避有可能會遇到人數不足的問題是那至於業務的那你們公民會的業務很顯然就會立刻受到影響就會受到影響會就開不成了對是會有這樣的問題不過這個案子我們希望也不要太多要不然就沒辦法處理了\n109907\t123857\t你希望不要太多 但是有些案子不是你能夠掌控的啊 對不對有一些你的這些公平交易的案子送上來不是你主委說這個我要接 這個我不接這個可能會有利益迴避的問題 所以我就不接所以未來的這個情況\n125805\t148841\t有可能還是會持續的發生會持續的存在公平會的運作裡頭嗎是不是這樣好這個呢剛剛我想這個我們提到了很多的這些案件副主委您自己怎麼樣定位即使你現在是代理的主委你怎麼樣定位您現在的角色跟未來的方向我可不可以聽一下您的看法\n149912\t163650\t我想現在是代理主委嘛那理論就是我做的工作就是主委做的工作所以主委所應該要盡到的責任當然就是我必須盡到的責任那對於未來的規劃我想公平會過去長期的執法已經建立了一些規範\n165012\t189913\t這些規範基本上如果可行而且運作上沒有障礙我會持續的遵循這些規劃當然有些地方是需要改進的那這個部分我也會積極來跟同仁來做溝通過去很多時候我們在立法院裡頭包括你們的法規的修訂啦包括你們的案件審查的時序啦或者是等等這一些其實有過非常多的討論但是我們過去很少\n191174\t202842\t應該是說比較少討論到你們的預算被刪減之後對公平會所產生的影響主委我想跟您請教一下如果就\n204113\t211256\t我們通過的總預算公平匯你們的預算是被刪除526萬並凍結業務費30%這30%大概是1200多萬\n221420\t236865\t那看起來好像對你們的影響不是太大因為這個錢其實很少但是呢你們在南部聯合服務中心有派駐兩位同仁喔雖然我的總的這個預算刪減沒有刪減到你這個部分但是南部\n238144\t260564\t聯合服務中心的業務費是被刪掉百分之百請問你們這兩位同仁還能不能上班還能不能執行業務要不要去執行業務該如何執行業務主委可不可以請問一下就跟剛剛委員所講的因為南部預算中心南部中心的預算並不是在我們會裡面這邊來負責當然實質上也會影響到所以那個部分\n261465\t289896\t其實說實在我也沒辦法提出一個什麼解決方法因為這個就是就是整體的我不要叫你提出解決方法我現在要知道是說你們的運作模式會不會受到影響比如說你現在南部中心的業務百分之百業務費都被刪除了嘛所以他在執行業務上面就會有很多的困難嘛水電衛生紙基本的文書需求等等這些都在業務費的向下嘛那你們的同仁要怎麼辦自備\n291485\t315677\t衛生紙自備紙筆自備所有要開會的東西還是說這些東西從台北運送下來從台北帶下來還是你這兩位同仁乾脆就直接回到台北上班同仁還是在上班啦只是說在上班的過程在南部上班在南部上班那他們現在的上班情況呢工作狀況有沒有受到什麼重大的影響\n318989\t332486\t這個不業務會持續的執行有人了解一下嗎對 但是我們業務實施執行因為預算的三節也會的確會影響到某些一些業務推廣但是我們還是盡量不要讓它影響到民眾的權益這個\n334605\t360773\t主委可能公平會並不直接第一線那麼多的接觸民眾所以你大概還不知道你們現在的業務被刪減之後你會面臨到的問題我就舉一個剛剛您的報告裡頭提到參與國際重要會議我不曉得您這個報告是什麼時候寫的那你講的很重要的是你們有很多國際交流跟政策的推動對不對是好\n361753\t385186\t你知道你的國際旅費被刪多少錢嗎60%你被刪了60%然後你洋洋灑灑跟我寫了這麼多你要做的國際交流請問你要怎麼做我只問你這一條就好跟委員報告一下我們寫的是過去已經做了未來的確已經受到影響我可以跟委員講就是說將來參與國際事務目前我們已經受到很大的一個限制\n385706\t414699\t那可能影響到的就是將來派出去同仁授訓或是跟國外交流的人數我們必須要控管甚至有些會議我們就沒辦法參加了所以的確是有產生因為這個63%減對國際業務推展所以未來會怎麼樣我們還是這是一個挑戰所以主委啊我覺得你剛剛的業務報告啊你其實應該很清楚告訴大家現在的預算刪減到這樣的時候對於你業務所產生的影響你不是報喜不報憂啊你現在講的這些東西都是你未來做的\n416019\t440130\t持續性的常態性你們都會做這些國際交流嘛我現在只有跟你講一個國際交流你被刪了60%你有很多工作是不能做的其實你應該在業務報告的時候提出來啊否則我們在檢討你的業務的時候發現你業務報告講一堆結果你沒有辦法做到那其實也是你帶乎職守啊這個立法委員就職下來還是罵你雖然預算是他們砍的\n441894\t464740\t所以我覺得這個東西很務實的要去面對預算被刪減了之後你的整體業務推動會面臨到什麼樣的困境你其實在這一期的業務報告裡頭你就要很清楚的講所以我接下來要再請教您一個問題剛剛在講到這個聯合壟斷的事情公平會其實處理很多叫聯合壟斷這個叫做配鎖工會\n470459\t493358\t這些鎖匙 鎖匙的這些工會 他們最近接到你們的警告說呢 他們這個工會有一個聯合定價的標準這個已經行之多年了 從民國78年成立以來 他們就有一些參考的價目但是你們現在發了一個警告函給他 你說這個叫違法 這個叫聯合壟斷\n496545\t516113\t所以這些工會的人就很緊張啊他對民國七十八年開始就大家討論說啊我這配色差不多是太多開色差不多是太多大家有一個range有一個收費的標準不會讓人家隨便哄抬價格過去的運作都很順利結果你現在跟他說你這叫做聯合壟斷他啊我可能會跟你開罰\n521045\t539797\t這是一個所使公會提到的去年有很多醫生來跟我反映掛號費衛福部說可以漲價所以醫師公會他們就去討論了掛號費到底要怎麼漲可以漲多少所以醫師公會大概有討論了一個range結果醫師公會也收到你們警告信說這個叫聯合壟斷\n542571\t562683\t到底聯合壟斷的定義是什麼如果他訂定了一個合理的收費標準收費範圍這樣是不是也叫聯合壟斷法條上面是這樣子解釋的嗎主委我請教一下跟委員報告一下聯合行為在公平法裡面是規範最嚴格的行為就是說原則上你就是不能做聯合行為\n563223\t588559\t當然委員有談到配所有一個合理的Range讓消費者知道大概要多少錢這個其實都可以依照公平法第15條的規定來申請豁免我們是有提供業者可以集體來提供豁免你這樣有哪些行業是可以申請豁免或是說這些工會要自己個別去申請你們有人去跟他們做過這樣子的溝通或者是說明或者是宣導嗎宣導都有但是申請還是他們必須要主動來申請\n589600\t608449\t透過工會等等來申請那我現在跟你舉例的這個例子比如說他現在收到了你們這個警告信他如果是可以符合豁免的是不是也能夠請你們主動來再去跟他們說明一下再去宣導然後通知他們來申請豁免我覺得有一些行業要避免被\n609429\t635704\t胡亂烘台價格被胡亂收費所以它有可能產生一個訂費訂收費的標準但是我不認為這個叫聯合壟斷當然你認為在公平交易法裡頭訂定的非常清楚可是我覺得有一些定義或者是說有一些行業別你還是要把它做為稍微有一點區分這個部分是不是能夠請你們是我們會讓民眾知道在公平法對於這些特殊情況的一些可行的感到OK 謝謝好\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席我是不是請一下陳代理主委請陳代理主委\n邱委員早 早 代理主委我想這個您擔任副主委的期間有多長4年 4年了那好像非常少有機會讓您站到備詢台這個尤記我們去年我在質詢的時候已經有先預判到萬一公平會主委有懸缺的時候萬一這個人事案\n沒有辦法通過的時候會面臨到什麼狀況很快的現在就是這樣的一個狀態那這個公平會的人事案呢李美跟洪才龍被聯手封殺所以你們原來是有七席的委員現在剩下五席嘛對不對您剛的報告其實講了非常多你們的業務我要請教一下現在剩下五席的狀況\n業務運作會不會受到影響你們的會議品質會不會受到影響萬一中間有遇到委員必須要利益迴避的案件的時候會不會有產生人數不足導致沒有辦法開會那\n要怎麼做來先就有利益衝突要迴避的時候我想這個可能性是有的如果說真的遇到有利益迴避那委員必須要迴避有可能會遇到人數不足的問題是那至於業務的那你們公民會的業務很顯然就會立刻受到影響就會受到影響會就開不成了對是會有這樣的問題不過這個案子我們希望也不要太多要不然就沒辦法處理了\n你希望不要太多 但是有些案子不是你能夠掌控的啊 對不對有一些你的這些公平交易的案子送上來不是你主委說這個我要接 這個我不接這個可能會有利益迴避的問題 所以我就不接所以未來的這個情況\n有可能還是會持續的發生會持續的存在公平會的運作裡頭嗎是不是這樣好這個呢剛剛我想這個我們提到了很多的這些案件副主委您自己怎麼樣定位即使你現在是代理的主委你怎麼樣定位您現在的角色跟未來的方向我可不可以聽一下您的看法\n我想現在是代理主委嘛那理論就是我做的工作就是主委做的工作所以主委所應該要盡到的責任當然就是我必須盡到的責任那對於未來的規劃我想公平會過去長期的執法已經建立了一些規範\n這些規範基本上如果可行而且運作上沒有障礙我會持續的遵循這些規劃當然有些地方是需要改進的那這個部分我也會積極來跟同仁來做溝通過去很多時候我們在立法院裡頭包括你們的法規的修訂啦包括你們的案件審查的時序啦或者是等等這一些其實有過非常多的討論但是我們過去很少\n應該是說比較少討論到你們的預算被刪減之後對公平會所產生的影響主委我想跟您請教一下如果就\n我們通過的總預算公平匯你們的預算是被刪除526萬並凍結業務費30%這30%大概是1200多萬\n那看起來好像對你們的影響不是太大因為這個錢其實很少但是呢你們在南部聯合服務中心有派駐兩位同仁喔雖然我的總的這個預算刪減沒有刪減到你這個部分但是南部\n聯合服務中心的業務費是被刪掉百分之百請問你們這兩位同仁還能不能上班還能不能執行業務要不要去執行業務該如何執行業務主委可不可以請問一下就跟剛剛委員所講的因為南部預算中心南部中心的預算並不是在我們會裡面這邊來負責當然實質上也會影響到所以那個部分\n其實說實在我也沒辦法提出一個什麼解決方法因為這個就是就是整體的我不要叫你提出解決方法我現在要知道是說你們的運作模式會不會受到影響比如說你現在南部中心的業務百分之百業務費都被刪除了嘛所以他在執行業務上面就會有很多的困難嘛水電衛生紙基本的文書需求等等這些都在業務費的向下嘛那你們的同仁要怎麼辦自備\n衛生紙自備紙筆自備所有要開會的東西還是說這些東西從台北運送下來從台北帶下來還是你這兩位同仁乾脆就直接回到台北上班同仁還是在上班啦只是說在上班的過程在南部上班在南部上班那他們現在的上班情況呢工作狀況有沒有受到什麼重大的影響\n這個不業務會持續的執行有人了解一下嗎對 但是我們業務實施執行因為預算的三節也會的確會影響到某些一些業務推廣但是我們還是盡量不要讓它影響到民眾的權益這個\n主委可能公平會並不直接第一線那麼多的接觸民眾所以你大概還不知道你們現在的業務被刪減之後你會面臨到的問題我就舉一個剛剛您的報告裡頭提到參與國際重要會議我不曉得您這個報告是什麼時候寫的那你講的很重要的是你們有很多國際交流跟政策的推動對不對是好\n你知道你的國際旅費被刪多少錢嗎60%你被刪了60%然後你洋洋灑灑跟我寫了這麼多你要做的國際交流請問你要怎麼做我只問你這一條就好跟委員報告一下我們寫的是過去已經做了未來的確已經受到影響我可以跟委員講就是說將來參與國際事務目前我們已經受到很大的一個限制\n那可能影響到的就是將來派出去同仁授訓或是跟國外交流的人數我們必須要控管甚至有些會議我們就沒辦法參加了所以的確是有產生因為這個63%減對國際業務推展所以未來會怎麼樣我們還是這是一個挑戰所以主委啊我覺得你剛剛的業務報告啊你其實應該很清楚告訴大家現在的預算刪減到這樣的時候對於你業務所產生的影響你不是報喜不報憂啊你現在講的這些東西都是你未來做的\n持續性的常態性你們都會做這些國際交流嘛我現在只有跟你講一個國際交流你被刪了60%你有很多工作是不能做的其實你應該在業務報告的時候提出來啊否則我們在檢討你的業務的時候發現你業務報告講一堆結果你沒有辦法做到那其實也是你帶乎職守啊這個立法委員就職下來還是罵你雖然預算是他們砍的\n所以我覺得這個東西很務實的要去面對預算被刪減了之後你的整體業務推動會面臨到什麼樣的困境你其實在這一期的業務報告裡頭你就要很清楚的講所以我接下來要再請教您一個問題剛剛在講到這個聯合壟斷的事情公平會其實處理很多叫聯合壟斷這個叫做配鎖工會\n這些鎖匙 鎖匙的這些工會 他們最近接到你們的警告說呢 他們這個工會有一個聯合定價的標準這個已經行之多年了 從民國78年成立以來 他們就有一些參考的價目但是你們現在發了一個警告函給他 你說這個叫違法 這個叫聯合壟斷\n所以這些工會的人就很緊張啊他對民國七十八年開始就大家討論說啊我這配色差不多是太多開色差不多是太多大家有一個range有一個收費的標準不會讓人家隨便哄抬價格過去的運作都很順利結果你現在跟他說你這叫做聯合壟斷他啊我可能會跟你開罰\n這是一個所使公會提到的去年有很多醫生來跟我反映掛號費衛福部說可以漲價所以醫師公會他們就去討論了掛號費到底要怎麼漲可以漲多少所以醫師公會大概有討論了一個range結果醫師公會也收到你們警告信說這個叫聯合壟斷\n到底聯合壟斷的定義是什麼如果他訂定了一個合理的收費標準收費範圍這樣是不是也叫聯合壟斷法條上面是這樣子解釋的嗎主委我請教一下跟委員報告一下聯合行為在公平法裡面是規範最嚴格的行為就是說原則上你就是不能做聯合行為\n當然委員有談到配所有一個合理的Range讓消費者知道大概要多少錢這個其實都可以依照公平法第15條的規定來申請豁免我們是有提供業者可以集體來提供豁免你這樣有哪些行業是可以申請豁免或是說這些工會要自己個別去申請你們有人去跟他們做過這樣子的溝通或者是說明或者是宣導嗎宣導都有但是申請還是他們必須要主動來申請\n透過工會等等來申請那我現在跟你舉例的這個例子比如說他現在收到了你們這個警告信他如果是可以符合豁免的是不是也能夠請你們主動來再去跟他們說明一下再去宣導然後通知他們來申請豁免我覺得有一些行業要避免被\n胡亂烘台價格被胡亂收費所以它有可能產生一個訂費訂收費的標準但是我不認為這個叫聯合壟斷當然你認為在公平交易法裡頭訂定的非常清楚可是我覺得有一些定義或者是說有一些行業別你還是要把它做為稍微有一點區分這個部分是不是能夠請你們是我們會讓民眾知道在公平法對於這些特殊情況的一些可行的感到OK 謝謝好\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.325 --> 00:06.499\n好謝謝主席我是不是請一下陳代理主委請陳代理主委\n\n00:14.864 --> 00:40.560\n邱委員早早代理主委我想這個您擔任副主委的期間有多長4年4年了那好像非常少有機會讓您站到備詢台這個尤記我們去年我在質詢的時候已經有先預判到萬一公平會主委有懸缺的時候萬一這個人事案\n\n00:41.400 --> 01:08.068\n沒有辦法通過的時候會面臨到什麼狀況很快的現在就是這樣的一個狀態那這個公平會的人事案呢李美跟洪才龍被聯手封殺所以你們原來是有七席的委員現在剩下五席嘛對不對您剛的報告其實講了非常多你們的業務我要請教一下現在剩下五席的狀況\n\n01:10.409 --> 01:24.689\n業務運作會不會受到影響你們的會議品質會不會受到影響萬一中間有遇到委員必須要利益迴避的案件的時候會不會有產生人數不足導致沒有辦法開會那\n\n01:26.571 --> 01:49.067\n要怎麼做來先就有利益衝突要迴避的時候我想這個可能性是有的如果說真的遇到有利益迴避那委員必須要迴避有可能會遇到人數不足的問題是那至於業務的那你們公民會的業務很顯然就會立刻受到影響就會受到影響會就開不成了對是會有這樣的問題不過這個案子我們希望也不要太多要不然就沒辦法處理了\n\n01:49.907 --> 02:03.857\n你希望不要太多但是有些案子不是你能夠掌控的啊對不對有一些你的這些公平交易的案子送上來不是你主委說這個我要接這個我不接這個可能會有利益迴避的問題所以我就不接所以未來的這個情況\n\n02:05.805 --> 02:28.841\n有可能還是會持續的發生會持續的存在公平會的運作裡頭嗎是不是這樣好這個呢剛剛我想這個我們提到了很多的這些案件副主委您自己怎麼樣定位即使你現在是代理的主委你怎麼樣定位您現在的角色跟未來的方向我可不可以聽一下您的看法\n\n02:29.912 --> 02:43.650\n我想現在是代理主委嘛那理論就是我做的工作就是主委做的工作所以主委所應該要盡到的責任當然就是我必須盡到的責任那對於未來的規劃我想公平會過去長期的執法已經建立了一些規範\n\n02:45.012 --> 03:09.913\n這些規範基本上如果可行而且運作上沒有障礙我會持續的遵循這些規劃當然有些地方是需要改進的那這個部分我也會積極來跟同仁來做溝通過去很多時候我們在立法院裡頭包括你們的法規的修訂啦包括你們的案件審查的時序啦或者是等等這一些其實有過非常多的討論但是我們過去很少\n\n03:11.174 --> 03:22.842\n應該是說比較少討論到你們的預算被刪減之後對公平會所產生的影響主委我想跟您請教一下如果就\n\n03:24.113 --> 03:31.256\n我們通過的總預算公平匯你們的預算是被刪除526萬並凍結業務費30%這30%大概是1200多萬\n\n03:41.420 --> 03:56.865\n那看起來好像對你們的影響不是太大因為這個錢其實很少但是呢你們在南部聯合服務中心有派駐兩位同仁喔雖然我的總的這個預算刪減沒有刪減到你這個部分但是南部\n\n03:58.144 --> 04:20.564\n聯合服務中心的業務費是被刪掉百分之百請問你們這兩位同仁還能不能上班還能不能執行業務要不要去執行業務該如何執行業務主委可不可以請問一下就跟剛剛委員所講的因為南部預算中心南部中心的預算並不是在我們會裡面這邊來負責當然實質上也會影響到所以那個部分\n\n04:21.465 --> 04:49.896\n其實說實在我也沒辦法提出一個什麼解決方法因為這個就是就是整體的我不要叫你提出解決方法我現在要知道是說你們的運作模式會不會受到影響比如說你現在南部中心的業務百分之百業務費都被刪除了嘛所以他在執行業務上面就會有很多的困難嘛水電衛生紙基本的文書需求等等這些都在業務費的向下嘛那你們的同仁要怎麼辦自備\n\n04:51.485 --> 05:15.677\n衛生紙自備紙筆自備所有要開會的東西還是說這些東西從台北運送下來從台北帶下來還是你這兩位同仁乾脆就直接回到台北上班同仁還是在上班啦只是說在上班的過程在南部上班在南部上班那他們現在的上班情況呢工作狀況有沒有受到什麼重大的影響\n\n05:18.989 --> 05:32.486\n這個不業務會持續的執行有人了解一下嗎對但是我們業務實施執行因為預算的三節也會的確會影響到某些一些業務推廣但是我們還是盡量不要讓它影響到民眾的權益這個\n\n05:34.605 --> 06:00.773\n主委可能公平會並不直接第一線那麼多的接觸民眾所以你大概還不知道你們現在的業務被刪減之後你會面臨到的問題我就舉一個剛剛您的報告裡頭提到參與國際重要會議我不曉得您這個報告是什麼時候寫的那你講的很重要的是你們有很多國際交流跟政策的推動對不對是好\n\n06:01.753 --> 06:25.186\n你知道你的國際旅費被刪多少錢嗎60%你被刪了60%然後你洋洋灑灑跟我寫了這麼多你要做的國際交流請問你要怎麼做我只問你這一條就好跟委員報告一下我們寫的是過去已經做了未來的確已經受到影響我可以跟委員講就是說將來參與國際事務目前我們已經受到很大的一個限制\n\n06:25.706 --> 06:54.699\n那可能影響到的就是將來派出去同仁授訓或是跟國外交流的人數我們必須要控管甚至有些會議我們就沒辦法參加了所以的確是有產生因為這個63%減對國際業務推展所以未來會怎麼樣我們還是這是一個挑戰所以主委啊我覺得你剛剛的業務報告啊你其實應該很清楚告訴大家現在的預算刪減到這樣的時候對於你業務所產生的影響你不是報喜不報憂啊你現在講的這些東西都是你未來做的\n\n06:56.019 --> 07:20.130\n持續性的常態性你們都會做這些國際交流嘛我現在只有跟你講一個國際交流你被刪了60%你有很多工作是不能做的其實你應該在業務報告的時候提出來啊否則我們在檢討你的業務的時候發現你業務報告講一堆結果你沒有辦法做到那其實也是你帶乎職守啊這個立法委員就職下來還是罵你雖然預算是他們砍的\n\n07:21.894 --> 07:44.740\n所以我覺得這個東西很務實的要去面對預算被刪減了之後你的整體業務推動會面臨到什麼樣的困境你其實在這一期的業務報告裡頭你就要很清楚的講所以我接下來要再請教您一個問題剛剛在講到這個聯合壟斷的事情公平會其實處理很多叫聯合壟斷這個叫做配鎖工會\n\n07:50.459 --> 08:13.358\n這些鎖匙鎖匙的這些工會他們最近接到你們的警告說呢他們這個工會有一個聯合定價的標準這個已經行之多年了從民國78年成立以來他們就有一些參考的價目但是你們現在發了一個警告函給他你說這個叫違法這個叫聯合壟斷\n\n08:16.545 --> 08:36.113\n所以這些工會的人就很緊張啊他對民國七十八年開始就大家討論說啊我這配色差不多是太多開色差不多是太多大家有一個range有一個收費的標準不會讓人家隨便哄抬價格過去的運作都很順利結果你現在跟他說你這叫做聯合壟斷他啊我可能會跟你開罰\n\n08:41.045 --> 08:59.797\n這是一個所使公會提到的去年有很多醫生來跟我反映掛號費衛福部說可以漲價所以醫師公會他們就去討論了掛號費到底要怎麼漲可以漲多少所以醫師公會大概有討論了一個range結果醫師公會也收到你們警告信說這個叫聯合壟斷\n\n09:02.571 --> 09:22.683\n到底聯合壟斷的定義是什麼如果他訂定了一個合理的收費標準收費範圍這樣是不是也叫聯合壟斷法條上面是這樣子解釋的嗎主委我請教一下跟委員報告一下聯合行為在公平法裡面是規範最嚴格的行為就是說原則上你就是不能做聯合行為\n\n09:23.223 --> 09:48.559\n當然委員有談到配所有一個合理的Range讓消費者知道大概要多少錢這個其實都可以依照公平法第15條的規定來申請豁免我們是有提供業者可以集體來提供豁免你這樣有哪些行業是可以申請豁免或是說這些工會要自己個別去申請你們有人去跟他們做過這樣子的溝通或者是說明或者是宣導嗎宣導都有但是申請還是他們必須要主動來申請\n\n09:49.600 --> 10:08.449\n透過工會等等來申請那我現在跟你舉例的這個例子比如說他現在收到了你們這個警告信他如果是可以符合豁免的是不是也能夠請你們主動來再去跟他們說明一下再去宣導然後通知他們來申請豁免我覺得有一些行業要避免被\n\n10:09.429 --> 10:35.704\n胡亂烘台價格被胡亂收費所以它有可能產生一個訂費訂收費的標準但是我不認為這個叫聯合壟斷當然你認為在公平交易法裡頭訂定的非常清楚可是我覺得有一些定義或者是說有一些行業別你還是要把它做為稍微有一點區分這個部分是不是能夠請你們是我們會讓民眾知道在公平法對於這些特殊情況的一些可行的感到OK謝謝好\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.325,"end":6.499,"text":"好 謝謝主席我是不是請一下陳代理主委請陳代理主委"},{"start":14.864,"end":40.56,"text":"邱委員早 早 代理主委我想這個您擔任副主委的期間有多長4年 4年了那好像非常少有機會讓您站到備詢台這個尤記我們去年我在質詢的時候已經有先預判到萬一公平會主委有懸缺的時候萬一這個人事案"},{"start":41.4,"end":68.068,"text":"沒有辦法通過的時候會面臨到什麼狀況很快的現在就是這樣的一個狀態那這個公平會的人事案呢李美跟洪才龍被聯手封殺所以你們原來是有七席的委員現在剩下五席嘛對不對您剛的報告其實講了非常多你們的業務我要請教一下現在剩下五席的狀況"},{"start":70.409,"end":84.689,"text":"業務運作會不會受到影響你們的會議品質會不會受到影響萬一中間有遇到委員必須要利益迴避的案件的時候會不會有產生人數不足導致沒有辦法開會那"},{"start":86.571,"end":109.067,"text":"要怎麼做來先就有利益衝突要迴避的時候我想這個可能性是有的如果說真的遇到有利益迴避那委員必須要迴避有可能會遇到人數不足的問題是那至於業務的那你們公民會的業務很顯然就會立刻受到影響就會受到影響會就開不成了對是會有這樣的問題不過這個案子我們希望也不要太多要不然就沒辦法處理了"},{"start":109.907,"end":123.857,"text":"你希望不要太多 但是有些案子不是你能夠掌控的啊 對不對有一些你的這些公平交易的案子送上來不是你主委說這個我要接 這個我不接這個可能會有利益迴避的問題 所以我就不接所以未來的這個情況"},{"start":125.805,"end":148.841,"text":"有可能還是會持續的發生會持續的存在公平會的運作裡頭嗎是不是這樣好這個呢剛剛我想這個我們提到了很多的這些案件副主委您自己怎麼樣定位即使你現在是代理的主委你怎麼樣定位您現在的角色跟未來的方向我可不可以聽一下您的看法"},{"start":149.912,"end":163.65,"text":"我想現在是代理主委嘛那理論就是我做的工作就是主委做的工作所以主委所應該要盡到的責任當然就是我必須盡到的責任那對於未來的規劃我想公平會過去長期的執法已經建立了一些規範"},{"start":165.012,"end":189.913,"text":"這些規範基本上如果可行而且運作上沒有障礙我會持續的遵循這些規劃當然有些地方是需要改進的那這個部分我也會積極來跟同仁來做溝通過去很多時候我們在立法院裡頭包括你們的法規的修訂啦包括你們的案件審查的時序啦或者是等等這一些其實有過非常多的討論但是我們過去很少"},{"start":191.174,"end":202.842,"text":"應該是說比較少討論到你們的預算被刪減之後對公平會所產生的影響主委我想跟您請教一下如果就"},{"start":204.113,"end":211.256,"text":"我們通過的總預算公平匯你們的預算是被刪除526萬並凍結業務費30%這30%大概是1200多萬"},{"start":221.42,"end":236.865,"text":"那看起來好像對你們的影響不是太大因為這個錢其實很少但是呢你們在南部聯合服務中心有派駐兩位同仁喔雖然我的總的這個預算刪減沒有刪減到你這個部分但是南部"},{"start":238.144,"end":260.564,"text":"聯合服務中心的業務費是被刪掉百分之百請問你們這兩位同仁還能不能上班還能不能執行業務要不要去執行業務該如何執行業務主委可不可以請問一下就跟剛剛委員所講的因為南部預算中心南部中心的預算並不是在我們會裡面這邊來負責當然實質上也會影響到所以那個部分"},{"start":261.465,"end":289.896,"text":"其實說實在我也沒辦法提出一個什麼解決方法因為這個就是就是整體的我不要叫你提出解決方法我現在要知道是說你們的運作模式會不會受到影響比如說你現在南部中心的業務百分之百業務費都被刪除了嘛所以他在執行業務上面就會有很多的困難嘛水電衛生紙基本的文書需求等等這些都在業務費的向下嘛那你們的同仁要怎麼辦自備"},{"start":291.485,"end":315.677,"text":"衛生紙自備紙筆自備所有要開會的東西還是說這些東西從台北運送下來從台北帶下來還是你這兩位同仁乾脆就直接回到台北上班同仁還是在上班啦只是說在上班的過程在南部上班在南部上班那他們現在的上班情況呢工作狀況有沒有受到什麼重大的影響"},{"start":318.989,"end":332.486,"text":"這個不業務會持續的執行有人了解一下嗎對 但是我們業務實施執行因為預算的三節也會的確會影響到某些一些業務推廣但是我們還是盡量不要讓它影響到民眾的權益這個"},{"start":334.605,"end":360.773,"text":"主委可能公平會並不直接第一線那麼多的接觸民眾所以你大概還不知道你們現在的業務被刪減之後你會面臨到的問題我就舉一個剛剛您的報告裡頭提到參與國際重要會議我不曉得您這個報告是什麼時候寫的那你講的很重要的是你們有很多國際交流跟政策的推動對不對是好"},{"start":361.753,"end":385.186,"text":"你知道你的國際旅費被刪多少錢嗎60%你被刪了60%然後你洋洋灑灑跟我寫了這麼多你要做的國際交流請問你要怎麼做我只問你這一條就好跟委員報告一下我們寫的是過去已經做了未來的確已經受到影響我可以跟委員講就是說將來參與國際事務目前我們已經受到很大的一個限制"},{"start":385.706,"end":414.699,"text":"那可能影響到的就是將來派出去同仁授訓或是跟國外交流的人數我們必須要控管甚至有些會議我們就沒辦法參加了所以的確是有產生因為這個63%減對國際業務推展所以未來會怎麼樣我們還是這是一個挑戰所以主委啊我覺得你剛剛的業務報告啊你其實應該很清楚告訴大家現在的預算刪減到這樣的時候對於你業務所產生的影響你不是報喜不報憂啊你現在講的這些東西都是你未來做的"},{"start":416.019,"end":440.13,"text":"持續性的常態性你們都會做這些國際交流嘛我現在只有跟你講一個國際交流你被刪了60%你有很多工作是不能做的其實你應該在業務報告的時候提出來啊否則我們在檢討你的業務的時候發現你業務報告講一堆結果你沒有辦法做到那其實也是你帶乎職守啊這個立法委員就職下來還是罵你雖然預算是他們砍的"},{"start":441.894,"end":464.74,"text":"所以我覺得這個東西很務實的要去面對預算被刪減了之後你的整體業務推動會面臨到什麼樣的困境你其實在這一期的業務報告裡頭你就要很清楚的講所以我接下來要再請教您一個問題剛剛在講到這個聯合壟斷的事情公平會其實處理很多叫聯合壟斷這個叫做配鎖工會"},{"start":470.459,"end":493.358,"text":"這些鎖匙 鎖匙的這些工會 他們最近接到你們的警告說呢 他們這個工會有一個聯合定價的標準這個已經行之多年了 從民國78年成立以來 他們就有一些參考的價目但是你們現在發了一個警告函給他 你說這個叫違法 這個叫聯合壟斷"},{"start":496.545,"end":516.113,"text":"所以這些工會的人就很緊張啊他對民國七十八年開始就大家討論說啊我這配色差不多是太多開色差不多是太多大家有一個range有一個收費的標準不會讓人家隨便哄抬價格過去的運作都很順利結果你現在跟他說你這叫做聯合壟斷他啊我可能會跟你開罰"},{"start":521.045,"end":539.797,"text":"這是一個所使公會提到的去年有很多醫生來跟我反映掛號費衛福部說可以漲價所以醫師公會他們就去討論了掛號費到底要怎麼漲可以漲多少所以醫師公會大概有討論了一個range結果醫師公會也收到你們警告信說這個叫聯合壟斷"},{"start":542.571,"end":562.683,"text":"到底聯合壟斷的定義是什麼如果他訂定了一個合理的收費標準收費範圍這樣是不是也叫聯合壟斷法條上面是這樣子解釋的嗎主委我請教一下跟委員報告一下聯合行為在公平法裡面是規範最嚴格的行為就是說原則上你就是不能做聯合行為"},{"start":563.223,"end":588.559,"text":"當然委員有談到配所有一個合理的Range讓消費者知道大概要多少錢這個其實都可以依照公平法第15條的規定來申請豁免我們是有提供業者可以集體來提供豁免你這樣有哪些行業是可以申請豁免或是說這些工會要自己個別去申請你們有人去跟他們做過這樣子的溝通或者是說明或者是宣導嗎宣導都有但是申請還是他們必須要主動來申請"},{"start":589.6,"end":608.449,"text":"透過工會等等來申請那我現在跟你舉例的這個例子比如說他現在收到了你們這個警告信他如果是可以符合豁免的是不是也能夠請你們主動來再去跟他們說明一下再去宣導然後通知他們來申請豁免我覺得有一些行業要避免被"},{"start":609.429,"end":635.704,"text":"胡亂烘台價格被胡亂收費所以它有可能產生一個訂費訂收費的標準但是我不認為這個叫聯合壟斷當然你認為在公平交易法裡頭訂定的非常清楚可是我覺得有一些定義或者是說有一些行業別你還是要把它做為稍微有一點區分這個部分是不是能夠請你們是我們會讓民眾知道在公平法對於這些特殊情況的一些可行的感到OK 謝謝好"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":53,"blocks":[["邱委員議瑩：（9時16分）謝謝主席。我是不是請一下陳代理主委？"],["主席：請陳代理主委。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：邱委員早。"],["邱委員議瑩：早。代理主委，您擔任副主委的期間有多長？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：4年。"],["邱委員議瑩：4年了，好像非常少有機會讓您站到備詢臺。猶記去年我在質詢的時候已經有先預判到，萬一公平會主委有懸缺的時候，萬一這個人事案沒有辦法通過的時候，會面臨到什麼狀況，很快的現在就是這樣的一個狀態。公平會的人事案李鎂跟洪財隆被聯手封殺，所以你們原來是有7席的委員，現在剩下5席，對不對？您剛剛的報告其實講了非常多你們的業務，我要請教一下，現在剩下5席的狀況，業務運作會不會受到影響？你們的會議品質會不會受到影響？萬一中間有遇到委員必須要利益迴避的案件的時候，會不會產生人數不足導致沒有辦法開會？那要怎麼做？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：先就有利益衝突要迴避的情況，我想這個可能性是有的，如果說真的遇到有利益衝突，委員必須要迴避，有可能會遇到人數不足的問題。至於業務的……"],["邱委員議瑩：那你們公平會的業務很顯然就會立刻受到影響。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：會就開不成了。"],["邱委員議瑩：會就開不成了嘛！"],["陳代理主任委員志民：對，是會有這樣的問題，不過這個案子我們希望也不要太多，要不然就沒辦法處理。"],["邱委員議瑩：你希望不要太多，但有些案子不是你能夠掌控的啊！"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：有一些公平交易的案子送上來，不是你主委說這個我要接、這個我不接、這個可能會有利益迴避的問題，所以我就不接，所以未來的這個情況有可能還是會持續的發生，會持續的存在公平會的運作裡，是不是這樣？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：剛剛我們提到了很多的案件，副主委，即使你現在是代理的主委，你自己怎麼樣定位您現在的角色跟未來的方向？我可不可以聽一下您的看法。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我想現在是代理主委，我做的工作就是主委做的工作，所以主委應該要盡到的責任當然就是我必須盡到的責任。對於未來的規劃，我想公平會過去長期的執法已經建立了一些規範，這些規範基本上如果可行，而且運作上沒有障礙，我會持續的遵循這些規劃，當然有些地方是需要改進的，這個部分我也會積極跟同仁來做溝通。"],["邱委員議瑩：過去很多時候我們在立法院裡，包括你們法規的修訂、你們案件審查的時序等等，其實有過非常多的討論，但是我們過去比較少討論到你們的預算被刪減之後對公平會所產生的影響。主委，我想跟您請教一下，如果就我們通過的總預算，公平會的預算是被刪除526萬，並凍結業務費30%，這30%大概是一千二百多萬，看起來好像對你們的影響不是太大，因為這錢其實很少，但是你們在南部聯合服務中心有派駐2位同仁，雖然總預算沒有刪減到這部分，但是南部聯合服務中心的業務費被刪掉百分之百，請問這2位同仁還能不能上班？能不能執行業務？要不要去執行業務？該如何執行業務？主委可不可以回答一下？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：就如同剛剛委員所講的，因為南部中心的預算並不是在我們會裡面這邊負責，當然實質上也會影響到，針對那個部分，說實在，我也沒辦法提出一個什麼解決的方法，因為這就是整體的……"],["邱委員議瑩：我沒有要叫你提出解決的方法，我現在要知道你們的運作模式會不會受到影響？譬如說現在南部中心的業務費百分之百都被刪除了，所以在執行業務上就會有很多的困難，水、電、衛生紙、基本的文書需求等等，這些都在業務費項下，那你們的同仁要怎麼辦？自備衛生紙、紙筆、所有要開會的東西？還是這些東西從臺北運送下來、帶下來？還是你們這2位同仁乾脆就直接回到臺北上班，歸建到臺北？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：同仁還是在上班，只是說在上班的過程……"],["邱委員議瑩：在哪裡上班？在南部上班嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：在南部上班。"],["邱委員議瑩：在南部上班，那他們現在上班情況、工作狀況有沒有受到什麼重大的影響？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：業務會持續的執行啦……"],["邱委員議瑩：有人瞭解一下嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：業務會執行，而預算的刪減的確會影響某些業務的推廣，但是我們儘量不要讓它影響到民眾的權益。"],["邱委員議瑩：主委，可能公平會並沒有那麼多在第一線直接接觸民眾，所以你大概還不知道你們現在的業務費被刪減之後會面臨到的問題，我就舉一個剛剛您報告裡提到的參與國際重要會議，我不曉得您這報告是什麼時候寫的，但你講到很重要的是你們有很多國際交流跟政策的推動，對不對？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，你知道你們的國際旅費被刪多少錢嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：60%。"],["邱委員議瑩：60%！你被刪了60%，然後洋洋灑灑寫了這麼多你要做的國際交流，請問你要怎麼做？我只問你這一條就好。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：跟委員報告一下，我們寫的是過去已經做的啦！那未來的確已經受到影響，我可以跟委員講，將來參與國際事務目前我們已經受到很大的限制，可能影響到將來派同仁出去受訓或是國外交流的人數必須要控管，甚至有些會議我們就沒辦法參加，因為這60%的刪減的確對國際業務推展有影響，所以未來會怎樣是個挑戰。"],["邱委員議瑩：主委，你剛剛的業務報告，其實應該要很清楚告訴大家，現在的預算刪減到這樣的時候，對業務所產生的影響，你不是報喜不報憂啊！你現在講的這些東西，都是你們未來會做的、持續性的、常態性的國際交流，我現在只有跟你講一個國際交流，你被刪了60%，有很多工作是不能做的。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：你應該在業務報告時候提出來啊！否則我們在檢討你們業務的時候，發現你業務報告講一堆，結果你沒辦法做到，其實也是你怠忽職守啊！立法委員究責下來還是罵你，雖然預算是他們砍的。所以我覺得要很務實的去面對，預算被刪減了之後，你的整體業務推動會面臨到什麼樣的困境，應該要在這一期的業務報告裡很清楚的講。","好，接下來要請教你一個問題，剛剛講到聯合壟斷的事情，公平會其實處理很多聯合壟斷的問題，最近配鎖工會、鎖匙業職業工會接到你們的警告，這個工會有一個聯合訂價的標準已經行之多年，從民國78年成立以來，他們就有一些參考的價目，但是你們現在發了一個警告函給它，說這個叫違法、這個叫聯合壟斷，所以這些工會就很緊張，他們從民國78年開始就大家討論配鑰匙差不多要收多少錢，開鎖差不多要收多少錢，大家有個range、有個收費的標準，不會讓人家隨便哄抬價格，過去的運作都很順，結果你們現在跟他們講這叫聯合壟斷，以後可能會開罰，這是一個鎖匙工會提到的。","去年也有很多醫生跟我反映，衛福部說掛號費可以漲價，所以醫師公會就有討論掛號費到底怎麼漲？可以漲多少？醫師公會有討論了一個range，結果醫師公會也收到你們的警告信，說這個叫聯合壟斷，到底「聯合壟斷」的定義是什麼？如果訂定一個合理的收費標準、收費範圍，這樣是不是也叫聯合壟斷？法條上是這樣解釋的嗎？主委，我請教一下。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：跟委員報告，「聯合行為」在公平法裡是規範最嚴格的行為，原則上就是不能做聯合行為，當然委員有談到配鎖有一個合理的range，讓消費者知道大概要多少錢，其實這都可以依照公平法第十五條規定申請豁免，我們是有提供業者集體來申請豁免。"],["邱委員議瑩：那有哪些行業是可以申請豁免？或者是這些工會要自己個別申請？你們有人去跟他們溝通、說明或者宣導嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：宣導都有，但是申請還是他們必須主動申請，透過工會等等來申請。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，那我現在跟你舉的這個例子，譬如說他們收到你們的警告信，如果他們是可以符合豁免的，是不是能夠請你們主動再去跟他們說明、宣導……"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是，我們可以提供這方面……"],["邱委員議瑩：通知他們來申請豁免。我覺得有些行業要避免被胡亂哄抬價格、被胡亂收費，所以有可能產生一個訂收費的標準，但是我不認為這叫聯合壟斷啦！當然你認為在公平交易法裡訂定的非常清楚，可是我覺得有些定義或者有些行業別，還是要稍微作一點區分，這部分是不是能夠請你們再去著墨？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是，我們會讓民眾知道在公平法對於這些特殊情況的一些可行管道。"],["邱委員議瑩：好的，OK，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝邱議瑩委員。","我們先確認議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏？"],["邱委員議瑩：沒有。"],["主席：沒有，好，議事錄確定。","下一位請林岱樺委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":168,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-2","speakers":["蔡易餘","邱議瑩","林岱樺","陳亭妃","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","呂玉玲","張嘉郡","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳超明","賴瑞隆","翁曉玲","陳培瑜"],"page_start":121,"meetingDate":["2025-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1142701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請公平交易委員會代理主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142701_00003"}}}