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\"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 553.809, \"end\": 553.929, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 553.929, \"end\": 554.109, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 554.109, \"end\": 554.389, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 554.389, \"end\": 555.35, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 555.35, \"end\": 555.37, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,450 --> 00:00:11,259\n主席好我們請部長市政委員好\n\n2\n00:00:12,366 --> 00:00:38,465\n部長好部長我們今天除了剛才的膠原機之外那我們希望來討論一下空軍的這個共諜案那這個共諜案件是層次不窮啦台中高分檢最近偵破的一個案件它是退役的死性非官那是要吸收我們空軍戰術管制連隊的管制官許展成\n\n3\n00:00:39,466 --> 00:01:01,487\n那據新聞的報導的話是長達四年四年的時間是洩漏軍機給中國甚至連國防部的雄志專案還有我們最近常常有反這個共軍老台他的反制的老台的這些機密據聞都已經落入中共的手中部長這個洩密案的狀況是否有媒體報的這樣是否屬實\n\n4\n00:01:03,689 --> 00:01:23,604\n那現役的這個軍官許展成他是不是有在空軍戰術管制聯隊擔任管制官這個部分的基本事實是不是可以請部長簡單跟我們來回應一下這個部分我們是在112年1月接獲官兵檢舉以後就通報這個我們有國安的聯防機制然後就配合這個\n\n5\n00:01:25,045 --> 00:01:47,297\n縣子部來共辦,那一起來偵辦之後,然後就像你所知道,我們當然後來有實施相關的偵查跟強制處分,然後在113年12月11號來貞節起訴那就這個部分我們當然對於這個退役的跟現役的人來從事這樣子一個叛國行為來三表不辭這樣子\n\n6\n00:01:49,240 --> 00:02:16,071\n部長我想請教一下你剛剛講的112年112年所以這樣子看起來的話整個時間時間走的話有到四年間嗎就是我們的版製作法整個我們接獲我們接獲的這個冠病的檢舉是在112年一月的那相關他他應該是有遭吸收是當然在之前那就這個\n\n7\n00:02:18,273 --> 00:02:40,731\n現役的這個許上尉這個部分呢那當然有遭吸收這樣的一個事實這是存在的所以我們當然我們要說明這也是官兵主動檢舉這表示說我們的保防交易有一定的效果啦那接貨之後我們即收即辦然後就馬上來報給國安局之後來統合來進行偵辦這樣\n\n8\n00:02:45,768 --> 00:03:14,242\n部長其實我剛剛想問的是大概影響的時間點就是說從他得到我們國防部得到的情資就是你說即收即辦那到他正式被不管是調離或是暫時接受管束的這個時間大概是花多久時間那過去這樣子的這個程序這個速度有沒有更加的就是精進所以這個是我想要問的問題我要想知道影響的時間大概多多\n\n9\n00:03:16,835 --> 00:03:32,826\n我們現在相關的外流的這個資訊我們已經完全審認了那現在是函送給高等法院台中分院來審理不過因為對於這一個有關媒體報導的部分當然因為現在並沒有\n\n10\n00:03:35,424 --> 00:03:46,988\n我想考量案件現在由法院來審理,我想我們細節的部分來不就不予評論啦但是我想我們都已經做了相關的風險控管的一些作為\n\n11\n00:03:53,589 --> 00:04:07,343\n因為我們現在所提到有關各項戰備佈置跟反制作為我們都會是提醒政府來隨時做機動的調整所以我想這個部分應該我們已經做了一個風險控管的作為\n\n12\n00:04:08,204 --> 00:04:31,883\n好謝謝部長你剛剛說有空險控管的做法那它上面有提到說戰機掛載的雄三飛彈的雄智專案它說機密遭到洩漏相關報導有講到這樣的部分那這些專案到底會對我國的防衛能力造成什麼樣的負面影響假設被這個洩密然後並且由中共掌握之後那我們的基本的一個有沒有補破網\n\n13\n00:04:33,345 --> 00:04:58,107\n做法是怎麼做?跟委員報告熊志案是我們的科研案那科研案基本上我們不會在這個地方做說明但是熊志是因為是一個新的案子所以這個洩密的時間跟我們研發的時間其實是沒有相關性以上報告洩密的時間跟我們研發的時間沒有相關性所以代表說基本上這個洩密的案件跟基本上沒有什麼實質的負面影響\n\n14\n00:04:59,622 --> 00:05:20,869\nOK那就是基本上沒有什麼太大的不會影響到我們的國家安全就是在影響之前我們就已經先把他們查獲了可以這麼說嗎至少在這個案件他在做這件事情的時候我們的科研案還沒有開始在做實質的進展所以這個案子是在後面才開始執行\n\n15\n00:05:22,371 --> 00:05:25,780\n這個我剛才提到這件事情我不是針對個案其實過去的14個月來那\n\n16\n00:05:30,858 --> 00:05:56,523\n國軍的共諜案的相關的發展基本上是每個月就有一件那從我們最新的這個反制共經老台的這個部分我剛才提到了這一件到這個台商父子替中國收買兩名空軍軍人然後要求簽歷效忠志願書這是一件然後還有台商拉攏利用拍頭翔變企圖投共的直升機投共的這個也是一件\n\n17\n00:05:56,823 --> 00:06:21,360\n那我們就不用再講說交付漢光演習機密然後拉攏這個現役軍事把使用無人機跟監雷達車這些狀況還有這個宿務這個總統府的211211三名士官遭到中共警工人員收買到這個空軍官校飛行訓練指揮部退役上校我們這樣子一直講下去甚至連之前蔡英文總統的這個班機出訪行程\n\n18\n00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:43,229\n到這個情報的相關的這些組織每個月都有一個大案那我們當然知道說這個捕破網很重要我們有措施我們也知道說在過去這幾個月每一個案件能夠被偵破就代表說我們保防教育是有成功的當然我們要看正面的一面但是會不會太頻繁\n\n19\n00:06:44,942 --> 00:07:11,168\n這種大案通常在其他歐美國家好澳洲美國英國法國這些傳統美國的盟邦會有這麼頻繁每個月幾乎一次嗎那我們到底有什麼樣的精進作為是不是可以請部長簡單來跟我們說一下因為看起來是不只是空軍海軍憲兵還有保衛總統府的甚至是我都不好意思講還有包含內政部警政署全部有全面性的被滲透的危機\n\n20\n00:07:12,714 --> 00:07:42,320\n那這個很令人擔心想請教一下部長至少在國防部的部分是不是我們是不是要安全查核是不是要更加的審慎或者是更加的頻繁對我們現在有關這個生命人員的安全查核事實上在去年一整年已經做了一個大規模的一個安全查核那我們現在也會建立一個所謂揭秘資格認證的機制也就是說部分階級只要他有揭秘的話都要有一定的安全查核那安全查核裡面也有\n\n21\n00:07:43,386 --> 00:08:10,985\n特殊的查核事項那這些查核的密度就會提升我們希望透過這樣子的一個機密資格認證的機制來妥善的來維護我們相關的機密謝謝部長部長我再強調一次就是剛才我們提到的很多案件都是什麼就是要求他們要嘛是簽立效忠志願書要嘛就是拍攝我願意投降解放軍的影片所以我看到我們陸海空軍洗髮第24條的這個修正案\n\n22\n00:08:13,226 --> 00:08:32,849\n那國防部好像有提出版本嘛那裡面有提到說這個有意見認為就是一年到七年那我們自己是用一年到七年的刑度是不是不足以有效嚇阻那這個量刑的範圍是國防部是怎麼樣決定的這剛好部長是這個法務的專門想請教一下\n\n23\n00:08:34,363 --> 00:09:00,480\n那個我們其實整個修法的24條它是有一個降敵罪跟有一個不禁止職責罪那我們把不禁止職責罪跟把它刑度拉高那不禁止職責罪我們又把陰謀犯跟預備犯給加入那就單純的對敵效忠這個表示的這個部分我們就按照這個相關的這個\n\n24\n00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:15,370\n因為它這個刑度要有一個比例原則所以我們就把它定為應該是一年以上七年以下就這個部分那我們現在在預告當中來再提起各界的意見好謝謝部長好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n450\t11259\t主席好我們請部長市政委員好\n12366\t38465\t部長好部長我們今天除了剛才的膠原機之外那我們希望來討論一下空軍的這個共諜案那這個共諜案件是層次不窮啦台中高分檢最近偵破的一個案件它是退役的死性非官那是要吸收我們空軍戰術管制連隊的管制官許展成\n39466\t61487\t那據新聞的報導的話是長達四年四年的時間是洩漏軍機給中國甚至連國防部的雄志專案還有我們最近常常有反這個共軍老台他的反制的老台的這些機密據聞都已經落入中共的手中部長這個洩密案的狀況是否有媒體報的這樣是否屬實\n63689\t83604\t那現役的這個軍官許展成他是不是有在空軍戰術管制聯隊擔任管制官這個部分的基本事實是不是可以請部長簡單跟我們來回應一下這個部分我們是在112年1月接獲官兵檢舉以後就通報這個我們有國安的聯防機制然後就配合這個\n85045\t107297\t縣子部來共辦,那一起來偵辦之後,然後就像你所知道,我們當然後來有實施相關的偵查跟強制處分,然後在113年12月11號來貞節起訴那就這個部分我們當然對於這個退役的跟現役的人來從事這樣子一個叛國行為來三表不辭這樣子\n109240\t136071\t部長我想請教一下你剛剛講的112年112年所以這樣子看起來的話整個時間時間走的話有到四年間嗎就是我們的版製作法整個我們接獲我們接獲的這個冠病的檢舉是在112年一月的那相關他他應該是有遭吸收是當然在之前那就這個\n138273\t160731\t現役的這個許上尉這個部分呢那當然有遭吸收這樣的一個事實這是存在的所以我們當然我們要說明這也是官兵主動檢舉這表示說我們的保防交易有一定的效果啦那接貨之後我們即收即辦然後就馬上來報給國安局之後來統合來進行偵辦這樣\n165768\t194242\t部長其實我剛剛想問的是大概影響的時間點就是說從他得到我們國防部得到的情資就是你說即收即辦那到他正式被不管是調離或是暫時接受管束的這個時間大概是花多久時間那過去這樣子的這個程序這個速度有沒有更加的就是精進所以這個是我想要問的問題我要想知道影響的時間大概多多\n196835\t212826\t我們現在相關的外流的這個資訊我們已經完全審認了那現在是函送給高等法院台中分院來審理不過因為對於這一個有關媒體報導的部分當然因為現在並沒有\n215424\t226988\t我想考量案件現在由法院來審理,我想我們細節的部分來不就不予評論啦但是我想我們都已經做了相關的風險控管的一些作為\n233589\t247343\t因為我們現在所提到有關各項戰備佈置跟反制作為我們都會是提醒政府來隨時做機動的調整所以我想這個部分應該我們已經做了一個風險控管的作為\n248204\t271883\t好 謝謝部長 你剛剛說有空險控管的做法那它上面有提到說戰機掛載的雄三飛彈的雄智專案它說機密遭到洩漏 相關報導有講到這樣的部分那這些專案到底會對我國的防衛能力造成什麼樣的負面影響假設被這個洩密 然後並且由中共掌握之後那我們的基本的一個 有沒有補破網\n273345\t298107\t做法是怎麼做?跟委員報告熊志案是我們的科研案那科研案基本上我們不會在這個地方做說明但是熊志是因為是一個新的案子所以這個洩密的時間跟我們研發的時間其實是沒有相關性以上報告洩密的時間跟我們研發的時間沒有相關性所以代表說基本上這個洩密的案件跟基本上沒有什麼實質的負面影響\n299622\t320869\tOK那就是基本上沒有什麼太大的不會影響到我們的國家安全就是在影響之前我們就已經先把他們查獲了可以這麼說嗎至少在這個案件他在做這件事情的時候我們的科研案還沒有開始在做實質的進展所以這個案子是在後面才開始執行\n322371\t325780\t這個我剛才提到這件事情我不是針對個案其實過去的14個月來那\n330858\t356523\t國軍的共諜案的相關的發展基本上是每個月就有一件那從我們最新的這個反制共經老台的這個部分我剛才提到了這一件到這個台商父子替中國收買兩名空軍軍人然後要求簽歷效忠志願書這是一件然後還有台商拉攏利用拍頭翔變企圖投共的直升機投共的這個也是一件\n356823\t381360\t那我們就不用再講說交付漢光演習機密然後拉攏這個現役軍事把使用無人機跟監雷達車這些狀況還有這個宿務這個總統府的211 211三名士官遭到中共警工人員收買到這個空軍官校飛行訓練指揮部退役上校我們這樣子一直講下去甚至連之前蔡英文總統的這個班機出訪行程\n382000\t403229\t到這個情報的相關的這些組織每個月都有一個大案那我們當然知道說這個捕破網很重要我們有措施我們也知道說在過去這幾個月每一個案件能夠被偵破就代表說我們保防教育是有成功的當然我們要看正面的一面但是會不會太頻繁\n404942\t431168\t這種大案通常在其他歐美國家好澳洲美國英國法國這些傳統美國的盟邦會有這麼頻繁每個月幾乎一次嗎那我們到底有什麼樣的精進作為是不是可以請部長簡單來跟我們說一下因為看起來是不只是空軍海軍憲兵還有保衛總統府的甚至是我都不好意思講還有包含內政部警政署全部有全面性的被滲透的危機\n432714\t462320\t那這個很令人擔心想請教一下部長至少在國防部的部分是不是我們是不是要安全查核是不是要更加的審慎或者是更加的頻繁對我們現在有關這個生命人員的安全查核事實上在去年一整年已經做了一個大規模的一個安全查核那我們現在也會建立一個所謂揭秘資格認證的機制也就是說部分階級只要他有揭秘的話都要有一定的安全查核那安全查核裡面也有\n463386\t490985\t特殊的查核事項那這些查核的密度就會提升我們希望透過這樣子的一個機密資格認證的機制來妥善的來維護我們相關的機密謝謝部長部長我再強調一次就是剛才我們提到的很多案件都是什麼就是要求他們要嘛是簽立效忠志願書要嘛就是拍攝我願意投降解放軍的影片所以我看到我們陸海空軍洗髮第24條的這個修正案\n493226\t512849\t那國防部好像有提出版本嘛那裡面有提到說這個有意見認為就是一年到七年那我們自己是用一年到七年的刑度是不是不足以有效嚇阻那這個量刑的範圍是國防部是怎麼樣決定的這剛好部長是這個法務的專門想請教一下\n514363\t540480\t那個我們其實整個修法的24條它是有一個降敵罪跟有一個不禁止職責罪那我們把不禁止職責罪跟把它刑度拉高那不禁止職責罪我們又把陰謀犯跟預備犯給加入那就單純的對敵效忠這個表示的這個部分我們就按照這個相關的這個\n541400\t555370\t因為它這個刑度要有一個比例原則所以我們就把它定為應該是一年以上七年以下就這個部分那我們現在在預告當中來再提起各界的意見好 謝謝部長好 謝謝\n","txt":"主席好我們請部長市政委員好\n部長好部長我們今天除了剛才的膠原機之外那我們希望來討論一下空軍的這個共諜案那這個共諜案件是層次不窮啦台中高分檢最近偵破的一個案件它是退役的死性非官那是要吸收我們空軍戰術管制連隊的管制官許展成\n那據新聞的報導的話是長達四年四年的時間是洩漏軍機給中國甚至連國防部的雄志專案還有我們最近常常有反這個共軍老台他的反制的老台的這些機密據聞都已經落入中共的手中部長這個洩密案的狀況是否有媒體報的這樣是否屬實\n那現役的這個軍官許展成他是不是有在空軍戰術管制聯隊擔任管制官這個部分的基本事實是不是可以請部長簡單跟我們來回應一下這個部分我們是在112年1月接獲官兵檢舉以後就通報這個我們有國安的聯防機制然後就配合這個\n縣子部來共辦,那一起來偵辦之後,然後就像你所知道,我們當然後來有實施相關的偵查跟強制處分,然後在113年12月11號來貞節起訴那就這個部分我們當然對於這個退役的跟現役的人來從事這樣子一個叛國行為來三表不辭這樣子\n部長我想請教一下你剛剛講的112年112年所以這樣子看起來的話整個時間時間走的話有到四年間嗎就是我們的版製作法整個我們接獲我們接獲的這個冠病的檢舉是在112年一月的那相關他他應該是有遭吸收是當然在之前那就這個\n現役的這個許上尉這個部分呢那當然有遭吸收這樣的一個事實這是存在的所以我們當然我們要說明這也是官兵主動檢舉這表示說我們的保防交易有一定的效果啦那接貨之後我們即收即辦然後就馬上來報給國安局之後來統合來進行偵辦這樣\n部長其實我剛剛想問的是大概影響的時間點就是說從他得到我們國防部得到的情資就是你說即收即辦那到他正式被不管是調離或是暫時接受管束的這個時間大概是花多久時間那過去這樣子的這個程序這個速度有沒有更加的就是精進所以這個是我想要問的問題我要想知道影響的時間大概多多\n我們現在相關的外流的這個資訊我們已經完全審認了那現在是函送給高等法院台中分院來審理不過因為對於這一個有關媒體報導的部分當然因為現在並沒有\n我想考量案件現在由法院來審理,我想我們細節的部分來不就不予評論啦但是我想我們都已經做了相關的風險控管的一些作為\n因為我們現在所提到有關各項戰備佈置跟反制作為我們都會是提醒政府來隨時做機動的調整所以我想這個部分應該我們已經做了一個風險控管的作為\n好 謝謝部長 你剛剛說有空險控管的做法那它上面有提到說戰機掛載的雄三飛彈的雄智專案它說機密遭到洩漏 相關報導有講到這樣的部分那這些專案到底會對我國的防衛能力造成什麼樣的負面影響假設被這個洩密 然後並且由中共掌握之後那我們的基本的一個 有沒有補破網\n做法是怎麼做?跟委員報告熊志案是我們的科研案那科研案基本上我們不會在這個地方做說明但是熊志是因為是一個新的案子所以這個洩密的時間跟我們研發的時間其實是沒有相關性以上報告洩密的時間跟我們研發的時間沒有相關性所以代表說基本上這個洩密的案件跟基本上沒有什麼實質的負面影響\nOK那就是基本上沒有什麼太大的不會影響到我們的國家安全就是在影響之前我們就已經先把他們查獲了可以這麼說嗎至少在這個案件他在做這件事情的時候我們的科研案還沒有開始在做實質的進展所以這個案子是在後面才開始執行\n這個我剛才提到這件事情我不是針對個案其實過去的14個月來那\n國軍的共諜案的相關的發展基本上是每個月就有一件那從我們最新的這個反制共經老台的這個部分我剛才提到了這一件到這個台商父子替中國收買兩名空軍軍人然後要求簽歷效忠志願書這是一件然後還有台商拉攏利用拍頭翔變企圖投共的直升機投共的這個也是一件\n那我們就不用再講說交付漢光演習機密然後拉攏這個現役軍事把使用無人機跟監雷達車這些狀況還有這個宿務這個總統府的211 211三名士官遭到中共警工人員收買到這個空軍官校飛行訓練指揮部退役上校我們這樣子一直講下去甚至連之前蔡英文總統的這個班機出訪行程\n到這個情報的相關的這些組織每個月都有一個大案那我們當然知道說這個捕破網很重要我們有措施我們也知道說在過去這幾個月每一個案件能夠被偵破就代表說我們保防教育是有成功的當然我們要看正面的一面但是會不會太頻繁\n這種大案通常在其他歐美國家好澳洲美國英國法國這些傳統美國的盟邦會有這麼頻繁每個月幾乎一次嗎那我們到底有什麼樣的精進作為是不是可以請部長簡單來跟我們說一下因為看起來是不只是空軍海軍憲兵還有保衛總統府的甚至是我都不好意思講還有包含內政部警政署全部有全面性的被滲透的危機\n那這個很令人擔心想請教一下部長至少在國防部的部分是不是我們是不是要安全查核是不是要更加的審慎或者是更加的頻繁對我們現在有關這個生命人員的安全查核事實上在去年一整年已經做了一個大規模的一個安全查核那我們現在也會建立一個所謂揭秘資格認證的機制也就是說部分階級只要他有揭秘的話都要有一定的安全查核那安全查核裡面也有\n特殊的查核事項那這些查核的密度就會提升我們希望透過這樣子的一個機密資格認證的機制來妥善的來維護我們相關的機密謝謝部長部長我再強調一次就是剛才我們提到的很多案件都是什麼就是要求他們要嘛是簽立效忠志願書要嘛就是拍攝我願意投降解放軍的影片所以我看到我們陸海空軍洗髮第24條的這個修正案\n那國防部好像有提出版本嘛那裡面有提到說這個有意見認為就是一年到七年那我們自己是用一年到七年的刑度是不是不足以有效嚇阻那這個量刑的範圍是國防部是怎麼樣決定的這剛好部長是這個法務的專門想請教一下\n那個我們其實整個修法的24條它是有一個降敵罪跟有一個不禁止職責罪那我們把不禁止職責罪跟把它刑度拉高那不禁止職責罪我們又把陰謀犯跟預備犯給加入那就單純的對敵效忠這個表示的這個部分我們就按照這個相關的這個\n因為它這個刑度要有一個比例原則所以我們就把它定為應該是一年以上七年以下就這個部分那我們現在在預告當中來再提起各界的意見好 謝謝部長好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.450 --> 00:11.259\n主席好我們請部長市政委員好\n\n00:12.366 --> 00:38.465\n部長好部長我們今天除了剛才的膠原機之外那我們希望來討論一下空軍的這個共諜案那這個共諜案件是層次不窮啦台中高分檢最近偵破的一個案件它是退役的死性非官那是要吸收我們空軍戰術管制連隊的管制官許展成\n\n00:39.466 --> 01:01.487\n那據新聞的報導的話是長達四年四年的時間是洩漏軍機給中國甚至連國防部的雄志專案還有我們最近常常有反這個共軍老台他的反制的老台的這些機密據聞都已經落入中共的手中部長這個洩密案的狀況是否有媒體報的這樣是否屬實\n\n01:03.689 --> 01:23.604\n那現役的這個軍官許展成他是不是有在空軍戰術管制聯隊擔任管制官這個部分的基本事實是不是可以請部長簡單跟我們來回應一下這個部分我們是在112年1月接獲官兵檢舉以後就通報這個我們有國安的聯防機制然後就配合這個\n\n01:25.045 --> 01:47.297\n縣子部來共辦,那一起來偵辦之後,然後就像你所知道,我們當然後來有實施相關的偵查跟強制處分,然後在113年12月11號來貞節起訴那就這個部分我們當然對於這個退役的跟現役的人來從事這樣子一個叛國行為來三表不辭這樣子\n\n01:49.240 --> 02:16.071\n部長我想請教一下你剛剛講的112年112年所以這樣子看起來的話整個時間時間走的話有到四年間嗎就是我們的版製作法整個我們接獲我們接獲的這個冠病的檢舉是在112年一月的那相關他他應該是有遭吸收是當然在之前那就這個\n\n02:18.273 --> 02:40.731\n現役的這個許上尉這個部分呢那當然有遭吸收這樣的一個事實這是存在的所以我們當然我們要說明這也是官兵主動檢舉這表示說我們的保防交易有一定的效果啦那接貨之後我們即收即辦然後就馬上來報給國安局之後來統合來進行偵辦這樣\n\n02:45.768 --> 03:14.242\n部長其實我剛剛想問的是大概影響的時間點就是說從他得到我們國防部得到的情資就是你說即收即辦那到他正式被不管是調離或是暫時接受管束的這個時間大概是花多久時間那過去這樣子的這個程序這個速度有沒有更加的就是精進所以這個是我想要問的問題我要想知道影響的時間大概多多\n\n03:16.835 --> 03:32.826\n我們現在相關的外流的這個資訊我們已經完全審認了那現在是函送給高等法院台中分院來審理不過因為對於這一個有關媒體報導的部分當然因為現在並沒有\n\n03:35.424 --> 03:46.988\n我想考量案件現在由法院來審理,我想我們細節的部分來不就不予評論啦但是我想我們都已經做了相關的風險控管的一些作為\n\n03:53.589 --> 04:07.343\n因為我們現在所提到有關各項戰備佈置跟反制作為我們都會是提醒政府來隨時做機動的調整所以我想這個部分應該我們已經做了一個風險控管的作為\n\n04:08.204 --> 04:31.883\n好謝謝部長你剛剛說有空險控管的做法那它上面有提到說戰機掛載的雄三飛彈的雄智專案它說機密遭到洩漏相關報導有講到這樣的部分那這些專案到底會對我國的防衛能力造成什麼樣的負面影響假設被這個洩密然後並且由中共掌握之後那我們的基本的一個有沒有補破網\n\n04:33.345 --> 04:58.107\n做法是怎麼做?跟委員報告熊志案是我們的科研案那科研案基本上我們不會在這個地方做說明但是熊志是因為是一個新的案子所以這個洩密的時間跟我們研發的時間其實是沒有相關性以上報告洩密的時間跟我們研發的時間沒有相關性所以代表說基本上這個洩密的案件跟基本上沒有什麼實質的負面影響\n\n04:59.622 --> 05:20.869\nOK那就是基本上沒有什麼太大的不會影響到我們的國家安全就是在影響之前我們就已經先把他們查獲了可以這麼說嗎至少在這個案件他在做這件事情的時候我們的科研案還沒有開始在做實質的進展所以這個案子是在後面才開始執行\n\n05:22.371 --> 05:25.780\n這個我剛才提到這件事情我不是針對個案其實過去的14個月來那\n\n05:30.858 --> 05:56.523\n國軍的共諜案的相關的發展基本上是每個月就有一件那從我們最新的這個反制共經老台的這個部分我剛才提到了這一件到這個台商父子替中國收買兩名空軍軍人然後要求簽歷效忠志願書這是一件然後還有台商拉攏利用拍頭翔變企圖投共的直升機投共的這個也是一件\n\n05:56.823 --> 06:21.360\n那我們就不用再講說交付漢光演習機密然後拉攏這個現役軍事把使用無人機跟監雷達車這些狀況還有這個宿務這個總統府的211211三名士官遭到中共警工人員收買到這個空軍官校飛行訓練指揮部退役上校我們這樣子一直講下去甚至連之前蔡英文總統的這個班機出訪行程\n\n06:22.000 --> 06:43.229\n到這個情報的相關的這些組織每個月都有一個大案那我們當然知道說這個捕破網很重要我們有措施我們也知道說在過去這幾個月每一個案件能夠被偵破就代表說我們保防教育是有成功的當然我們要看正面的一面但是會不會太頻繁\n\n06:44.942 --> 07:11.168\n這種大案通常在其他歐美國家好澳洲美國英國法國這些傳統美國的盟邦會有這麼頻繁每個月幾乎一次嗎那我們到底有什麼樣的精進作為是不是可以請部長簡單來跟我們說一下因為看起來是不只是空軍海軍憲兵還有保衛總統府的甚至是我都不好意思講還有包含內政部警政署全部有全面性的被滲透的危機\n\n07:12.714 --> 07:42.320\n那這個很令人擔心想請教一下部長至少在國防部的部分是不是我們是不是要安全查核是不是要更加的審慎或者是更加的頻繁對我們現在有關這個生命人員的安全查核事實上在去年一整年已經做了一個大規模的一個安全查核那我們現在也會建立一個所謂揭秘資格認證的機制也就是說部分階級只要他有揭秘的話都要有一定的安全查核那安全查核裡面也有\n\n07:43.386 --> 08:10.985\n特殊的查核事項那這些查核的密度就會提升我們希望透過這樣子的一個機密資格認證的機制來妥善的來維護我們相關的機密謝謝部長部長我再強調一次就是剛才我們提到的很多案件都是什麼就是要求他們要嘛是簽立效忠志願書要嘛就是拍攝我願意投降解放軍的影片所以我看到我們陸海空軍洗髮第24條的這個修正案\n\n08:13.226 --> 08:32.849\n那國防部好像有提出版本嘛那裡面有提到說這個有意見認為就是一年到七年那我們自己是用一年到七年的刑度是不是不足以有效嚇阻那這個量刑的範圍是國防部是怎麼樣決定的這剛好部長是這個法務的專門想請教一下\n\n08:34.363 --> 09:00.480\n那個我們其實整個修法的24條它是有一個降敵罪跟有一個不禁止職責罪那我們把不禁止職責罪跟把它刑度拉高那不禁止職責罪我們又把陰謀犯跟預備犯給加入那就單純的對敵效忠這個表示的這個部分我們就按照這個相關的這個\n\n09:01.400 --> 09:15.370\n因為它這個刑度要有一個比例原則所以我們就把它定為應該是一年以上七年以下就這個部分那我們現在在預告當中來再提起各界的意見好謝謝部長好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.45,"end":11.259,"text":"主席好我們請部長市政委員好"},{"start":12.366,"end":38.465,"text":"部長好部長我們今天除了剛才的膠原機之外那我們希望來討論一下空軍的這個共諜案那這個共諜案件是層次不窮啦台中高分檢最近偵破的一個案件它是退役的死性非官那是要吸收我們空軍戰術管制連隊的管制官許展成"},{"start":39.466,"end":61.487,"text":"那據新聞的報導的話是長達四年四年的時間是洩漏軍機給中國甚至連國防部的雄志專案還有我們最近常常有反這個共軍老台他的反制的老台的這些機密據聞都已經落入中共的手中部長這個洩密案的狀況是否有媒體報的這樣是否屬實"},{"start":63.689,"end":83.604,"text":"那現役的這個軍官許展成他是不是有在空軍戰術管制聯隊擔任管制官這個部分的基本事實是不是可以請部長簡單跟我們來回應一下這個部分我們是在112年1月接獲官兵檢舉以後就通報這個我們有國安的聯防機制然後就配合這個"},{"start":85.045,"end":107.297,"text":"縣子部來共辦,那一起來偵辦之後,然後就像你所知道,我們當然後來有實施相關的偵查跟強制處分,然後在113年12月11號來貞節起訴那就這個部分我們當然對於這個退役的跟現役的人來從事這樣子一個叛國行為來三表不辭這樣子"},{"start":109.24,"end":136.071,"text":"部長我想請教一下你剛剛講的112年112年所以這樣子看起來的話整個時間時間走的話有到四年間嗎就是我們的版製作法整個我們接獲我們接獲的這個冠病的檢舉是在112年一月的那相關他他應該是有遭吸收是當然在之前那就這個"},{"start":138.273,"end":160.731,"text":"現役的這個許上尉這個部分呢那當然有遭吸收這樣的一個事實這是存在的所以我們當然我們要說明這也是官兵主動檢舉這表示說我們的保防交易有一定的效果啦那接貨之後我們即收即辦然後就馬上來報給國安局之後來統合來進行偵辦這樣"},{"start":165.768,"end":194.242,"text":"部長其實我剛剛想問的是大概影響的時間點就是說從他得到我們國防部得到的情資就是你說即收即辦那到他正式被不管是調離或是暫時接受管束的這個時間大概是花多久時間那過去這樣子的這個程序這個速度有沒有更加的就是精進所以這個是我想要問的問題我要想知道影響的時間大概多多"},{"start":196.835,"end":212.826,"text":"我們現在相關的外流的這個資訊我們已經完全審認了那現在是函送給高等法院台中分院來審理不過因為對於這一個有關媒體報導的部分當然因為現在並沒有"},{"start":215.424,"end":226.988,"text":"我想考量案件現在由法院來審理,我想我們細節的部分來不就不予評論啦但是我想我們都已經做了相關的風險控管的一些作為"},{"start":233.589,"end":247.343,"text":"因為我們現在所提到有關各項戰備佈置跟反制作為我們都會是提醒政府來隨時做機動的調整所以我想這個部分應該我們已經做了一個風險控管的作為"},{"start":248.204,"end":271.883,"text":"好 謝謝部長 你剛剛說有空險控管的做法那它上面有提到說戰機掛載的雄三飛彈的雄智專案它說機密遭到洩漏 相關報導有講到這樣的部分那這些專案到底會對我國的防衛能力造成什麼樣的負面影響假設被這個洩密 然後並且由中共掌握之後那我們的基本的一個 有沒有補破網"},{"start":273.345,"end":298.107,"text":"做法是怎麼做?跟委員報告熊志案是我們的科研案那科研案基本上我們不會在這個地方做說明但是熊志是因為是一個新的案子所以這個洩密的時間跟我們研發的時間其實是沒有相關性以上報告洩密的時間跟我們研發的時間沒有相關性所以代表說基本上這個洩密的案件跟基本上沒有什麼實質的負面影響"},{"start":299.622,"end":320.869,"text":"OK那就是基本上沒有什麼太大的不會影響到我們的國家安全就是在影響之前我們就已經先把他們查獲了可以這麼說嗎至少在這個案件他在做這件事情的時候我們的科研案還沒有開始在做實質的進展所以這個案子是在後面才開始執行"},{"start":322.371,"end":325.78,"text":"這個我剛才提到這件事情我不是針對個案其實過去的14個月來那"},{"start":330.858,"end":356.523,"text":"國軍的共諜案的相關的發展基本上是每個月就有一件那從我們最新的這個反制共經老台的這個部分我剛才提到了這一件到這個台商父子替中國收買兩名空軍軍人然後要求簽歷效忠志願書這是一件然後還有台商拉攏利用拍頭翔變企圖投共的直升機投共的這個也是一件"},{"start":356.823,"end":381.36,"text":"那我們就不用再講說交付漢光演習機密然後拉攏這個現役軍事把使用無人機跟監雷達車這些狀況還有這個宿務這個總統府的211 211三名士官遭到中共警工人員收買到這個空軍官校飛行訓練指揮部退役上校我們這樣子一直講下去甚至連之前蔡英文總統的這個班機出訪行程"},{"start":382,"end":403.229,"text":"到這個情報的相關的這些組織每個月都有一個大案那我們當然知道說這個捕破網很重要我們有措施我們也知道說在過去這幾個月每一個案件能夠被偵破就代表說我們保防教育是有成功的當然我們要看正面的一面但是會不會太頻繁"},{"start":404.942,"end":431.168,"text":"這種大案通常在其他歐美國家好澳洲美國英國法國這些傳統美國的盟邦會有這麼頻繁每個月幾乎一次嗎那我們到底有什麼樣的精進作為是不是可以請部長簡單來跟我們說一下因為看起來是不只是空軍海軍憲兵還有保衛總統府的甚至是我都不好意思講還有包含內政部警政署全部有全面性的被滲透的危機"},{"start":432.714,"end":462.32,"text":"那這個很令人擔心想請教一下部長至少在國防部的部分是不是我們是不是要安全查核是不是要更加的審慎或者是更加的頻繁對我們現在有關這個生命人員的安全查核事實上在去年一整年已經做了一個大規模的一個安全查核那我們現在也會建立一個所謂揭秘資格認證的機制也就是說部分階級只要他有揭秘的話都要有一定的安全查核那安全查核裡面也有"},{"start":463.386,"end":490.985,"text":"特殊的查核事項那這些查核的密度就會提升我們希望透過這樣子的一個機密資格認證的機制來妥善的來維護我們相關的機密謝謝部長部長我再強調一次就是剛才我們提到的很多案件都是什麼就是要求他們要嘛是簽立效忠志願書要嘛就是拍攝我願意投降解放軍的影片所以我看到我們陸海空軍洗髮第24條的這個修正案"},{"start":493.226,"end":512.849,"text":"那國防部好像有提出版本嘛那裡面有提到說這個有意見認為就是一年到七年那我們自己是用一年到七年的刑度是不是不足以有效嚇阻那這個量刑的範圍是國防部是怎麼樣決定的這剛好部長是這個法務的專門想請教一下"},{"start":514.363,"end":540.48,"text":"那個我們其實整個修法的24條它是有一個降敵罪跟有一個不禁止職責罪那我們把不禁止職責罪跟把它刑度拉高那不禁止職責罪我們又把陰謀犯跟預備犯給加入那就單純的對敵效忠這個表示的這個部分我們就按照這個相關的這個"},{"start":541.4,"end":555.37,"text":"因為它這個刑度要有一個比例原則所以我們就把它定為應該是一年以上七年以下就這個部分那我們現在在預告當中來再提起各界的意見好 謝謝部長好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":135,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（9時26分）主席好，我們請部長。"],["顧部長立雄：陳委員好。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長好。部長，今天除了剛才的教練機之外，我們希望來討論一下空軍的共諜案，共諜案件是層出不窮。關於臺中高分檢最近偵破的一個案件，退役的史姓飛官要吸收空軍戰術管制聯隊的管制官許展誠，據新聞報導，長達四年的時間洩漏軍機給中國，甚至連國防部的雄鷙專案，還有最近常常發生共軍擾臺的反制機密，據聞都已經落入中共的手中。部長，這個洩密案的狀況是否為媒體報的這樣、是否屬實？現役軍官許展誠是不是有在空軍戰術管制聯隊擔任管制官？這個部分的基本事實是不是可以請部長簡單跟我們回應一下？"],["顧部長立雄：這個部分我們在112年1月接獲官兵檢舉以後就通報國安的聯防機制，然後就配合憲指部共辦，一起偵辦之後就像你所知道的，我們後來有實施相關的偵查跟強制處分，在113年12月11號偵結起訴。就這個部分，我們當然對於退役跟現役的人從事這樣的叛國行為深表不恥。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長，我想請教一下，你剛剛講112年、113年，所以這樣子看起來的話，整個時間軸有到四年嗎？就是我們的反制作法、整個時間軸大概多久？"],["顧部長立雄：我們接獲官兵的檢舉是在112年1月，他遭到吸收當然是在之前，就現役的許上尉部分，當然有遭到吸收這樣的一個事實，這是存在的。當然我們要說明，這也是官兵主動檢舉，這表示我們的保防教育有一定的效果，那接獲之後我們即收即辦，馬上報給國安局來統合進行偵辦。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長，其實我剛剛想問的是影響的時間點，從國防部得到情資，你說即收即辦，到他正式被調離或暫時接受管束大概是花多久時間？過去這樣子的程序、速度有沒有更加的精進？這個是我想要問的問題，我想要知道影響的時間大概多少？"],["顧部長立雄：相關的外流資訊我們已經完全審認，現在函送給高等法院臺中分院來審理，不過有關媒體報導的部分，考量案件現在由法院來審理，我想細節的部分就不予評論，但是我們都已經做了相關的風險控管作為，而關於我們現在提到有關本軍的各項戰備布置跟反制作為，我們都會視敵情徵候來隨時做機動調整，所以我想這個部分我們應該已經做了一個風險控管的作為。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，謝謝部長，你剛剛說有風險控管的作法，那上面有提到戰機掛載雄三飛彈的雄鷙專案，它說機密遭到洩漏，相關報導有講到這部分，假設這些專案被洩密並且由中共掌握之後，到底會對我國的防衛能力造成什麼樣的負面影響？有沒有補破網？做法是怎麼做？"],["程一誠副院長：跟委員報告，雄鷙案是我們的科研案，科研案基本上我們不會在這個地方做說明，但雄鷙因為是一個新的案子，所以洩密的時間跟我們研發的時間其實沒有相關性，以上報告。"],["陳委員冠廷：洩密的時間跟我們研發的時間沒有相關性，所以代表說，基本上這個洩密案件沒有什麼實質的負面影響？"],["程一誠副院長：是。"],["陳委員冠廷：OK，基本上不會影響到我們的國家安全，就是在影響之前我們就已經先把他們查獲了，至少在這個案件可以這麼說嗎？"],["程一誠副院長：是，他在做這件事情的時候，我們的科研案還沒有開始做實質的進展，這個案子是後面才開始執行。"],["陳委員冠廷：我剛才提到這件事情不是針對個案，其實過去的14個月來，關於國軍共諜案的相關發展，基本上是每個月就有1件，從最新的反制共軍擾臺部分、我剛才提到的這一件；到臺商父子替中國收買2名空軍軍人，然後要求簽立效忠志願書，這是一件；然後還有臺商拉攏，利用拍投降片、企圖駕直升機投共，這個也是一件；我們就不用再講說，交付漢光演習機密，然後拉攏現役軍人，使用無人機跟監雷達車等這些狀況；還有總統府的211營3名士官遭到中共情工人員收買，到空軍官校飛行訓練指揮部退役上校；我們這樣子一直講下去，甚至連之前蔡英文總統的班機出訪行程到這些情報相關組織，每個月都有一個大案。","我們當然知道補破網很重要、我們有措施，我們也知道在過去這幾個月，每一個案件能夠被偵破就代表我們保防教育是有成功的，當然我們要看正面的一面，但是會不會太頻繁？這種大案通常在其他歐美國家，澳洲、美國、英國、法國等這些傳統美國盟邦會有這麼頻繁、每個月幾乎一次嗎？那我們到底有什麼樣的精進作為，是不是可以請部長簡單來跟我們說一下？因為看起來不只是空軍、海軍、憲兵，還有保衛總統府的，我都不好意思講，還有包含內政部警政署，有全面性被滲透的危機，這個很令人擔心，想請教一下部長，至少在國防部的部分，安全查核是不是要更加的審慎或者更加的頻繁？"],["顧部長立雄：對，我們現在有關涉密人員的安全查核，事實上在去年一整年已經做了一個大規模的安全查核，我們現在也會建立一個所謂接密資格認證的機制，也就是說，不分階級、只要他有接密的話都要有一定的安全查核，那安全查核裡面也有特殊的查核事項，這些查核的密度就會提升，我們希望透過這樣子的接密資格認證機制來妥慎維護相關的機密。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝部長。部長，我再強調一次，剛才我提到的很多案件都是什麼？有的要求他們簽立效忠志願書，或者拍攝我願意投降解放軍的影片。而我看到陸海空軍刑法第二十四條的修正案，國防部好像有提出版本，裡面提到有意見認為一年到七年，我們自己認為一年到七年的刑度是不是不足以有效嚇阻，這個量刑範圍國防部是怎麼樣決定的？剛好部長是法務的專門，想請教一下。"],["顧部長立雄：其實整個修法的第二十四條是有一個降敵罪跟不盡其職責罪，我們把不盡其職責罪的刑度拉高，在不盡其職責罪中，我們又把陰謀犯跟預備犯給加入，就單純對敵效忠表示的部分，我們就按照相關的這個，因為這個刑度要有一個比例原則，所以我們就把它定為應該是一年以上七年以下，這個部分我們現在在預告當中，在聽取各界的意見。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，謝謝部長。"],["顧部長立雄：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳冠廷委員的發言，部長請回。","接下來請林楚茵委員答詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":120,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-2","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","陳冠廷","林楚茵","陳永康","陳俊宇","沈伯洋","馬文君","徐巧芯","黃國昌","邱志偉","林憶君","王定宇","羅智強"],"page_start":83,"meetingDate":["2025-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1142701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長報告「國機國造交機進度及勇鷹高教機失事後檢修情況」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142701_00002"}}}