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{\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 73.995, \"end\": 74.115, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 74.115, \"end\": 74.215, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 74.215, \"end\": 74.515, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 74.515, \"end\": 74.655, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 74.655, \"end\": 74.815, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 74.815, \"end\": 74.975, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 74.975, \"end\": 75.495, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 75.495, \"end\": 75.615, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 75.615, \"end\": 75.755, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 75.755, \"end\": 75.835, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 75.835, \"end\": 75.895, \"score\": 0.42}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 75.895, \"end\": 76.035, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 76.035, \"end\": 76.155, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 76.155, \"end\": 76.175, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 80.196, \"end\": 103.036, \"text\": \"來我跟你們報告其實這個水電是不是要漲這個都有一個審議委員會而且這個審議委員會在調的時候也會通盤考量到國內的整個經濟情況還有民生的一個消費一個狀況不會說貿然去調整所以一定會經過一個深思熟慮的一個情況再來調整那院長講的只是說我們可以去討論但是討論不一定會去做一點\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 80.196, \"end\": 80.336, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 80.336, \"end\": 80.476, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 80.476, \"end\": 80.576, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 80.576, \"end\": 81.097, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 81.097, \"end\": 82.478, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 82.478, \"end\": 82.618, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 82.618, \"end\": 82.818, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 82.818, \"end\": 83.058, \"score\": 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\"論\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 102.116, \"end\": 102.236, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 102.236, \"end\": 102.296, \"score\": 0.657}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 102.296, \"end\": 102.596, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 102.596, \"end\": 102.836, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 102.836, \"end\": 103.016, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 103.016, \"end\": 103.036, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"點\"}]}, {\"start\": 103.757, \"end\": 123.546, \"text\": \"也要等到一個不是說討論就一定事情調整你還是要等到你們的審議委員會討論完之後才會確定嘛對不對審議委員會一定會經過通盤完整的考量才會去做一些決定所以我想對於媒體這樣的報導我覺得可能你們也應該要去跟媒體做一些澄清因為第一個還沒有經過討論\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 103.757, \"end\": 103.877, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 103.877, \"end\": 104.437, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 104.437, \"end\": 104.597, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 104.597, \"end\": 104.798, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"一\", 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{\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 114.422, \"end\": 114.562, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 114.562, \"end\": 114.722, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 114.722, \"end\": 114.782, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 114.782, \"end\": 115.182, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 115.182, \"end\": 115.963, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 115.963, \"end\": 116.063, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 116.063, \"end\": 116.123, \"score\": 0.655}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 116.123, \"end\": 116.263, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 116.263, \"end\": 116.523, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 116.523, \"end\": 117.183, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"媒\", \"start\": 117.183, \"end\": 117.723, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 117.723, \"end\": 118.484, 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\"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 421.602, \"end\": 421.723, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 421.723, \"end\": 421.863, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"咨\", \"start\": 421.863, \"end\": 421.983, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"询\", \"start\": 421.983, \"end\": 422.204, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"请\", \"start\": 422.204, \"end\": 422.465, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"陈\", \"start\": 422.465, \"end\": 422.665, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 422.665, \"end\": 422.785, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"飞\", \"start\": 422.785, \"end\": 422.966, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 422.966, \"end\": 422.986, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,301 --> 00:00:29,615\n謝謝主席我先請一下經濟部經濟部林市長市長早市長很高興今天還可以在這裡看到你來那個在我們\n\n2\n00:00:31,149 --> 00:00:50,648\n首先我想要先請教一個時事題馬上就要過年了那這個經濟部在日前有宣布春節的油價方案是止跌不漲對不對所以你們會在這個時候把這個油品的價格去把它控制在一定的油氣都不會調\n\n3\n00:00:51,229 --> 00:01:16,175\n油氣都不會調那水電呢因為我看到卓院長說這個水價應該要適度的調整那開始就有媒體在寫說這個卓榮泰只是水價要上漲所以你們可能會上漲四成那很多人開始人心惶惶我是不是利用這個機會讓經濟部也說明一下好不好你們現在水電有沒有調整的方案那如果有什麼時候會做\n\n4\n00:01:20,196 --> 00:01:43,036\n來我跟你們報告其實這個水電是不是要漲這個都有一個審議委員會而且這個審議委員會在調的時候也會通盤考量到國內的整個經濟情況還有民生的一個消費一個狀況不會說貿然去調整所以一定會經過一個深思熟慮的一個情況再來調整那院長講的只是說我們可以去討論但是討論不一定會去做一點\n\n5\n00:01:43,757 --> 00:02:03,546\n也要等到一個不是說討論就一定事情調整你還是要等到你們的審議委員會討論完之後才會確定嘛對不對審議委員會一定會經過通盤完整的考量才會去做一些決定所以我想對於媒體這樣的報導我覺得可能你們也應該要去跟媒體做一些澄清因為第一個還沒有經過討論\n\n6\n00:02:05,816 --> 00:02:31,425\n也不知道它到底會不會漲即使會漲也不一定是像媒體講的漲四成所以我認為這樣的一個報導其實對於大家覺得要過年了經濟部在處理會讓人心惶惶所以我想這個可能經濟部你們可能還是要再去做一些澄清再去做一些說明我們有述實對外澄清說這個東西\n\n7\n00:02:33,826 --> 00:02:56,677\n接下來我想還是要請教一下次長我們今天討論這個產創條例這個大概整理了一下這個是你們行政院的幾個版本我現在大概幾個問題要請教這個問題大概其實大家都覺得抵減金額到底應該要多少會比較好行政院的版本是18億那本席提出的版本是20億\n\n8\n00:02:57,978 --> 00:03:24,774\n那我的這個版本20億的數字呢其實是跟郭智慧部長希望的20億是一樣的可是我剛剛聽了財政部的報導他說我們已經通盤考量過了我們就這樣已經很好了所以呢他希望大院支持你們18億次長你們怎麼看因為我們這是行政院版本我們在內部所以你現在還是必須要支持行政院版本你還是只能講18億嘛對不對如果到20億會不會比較好一點\n\n9\n00:03:27,745 --> 00:03:52,421\n如果到20億會不會比較好?你覺得到了20億是不是對企業的誘因會更增強一點?18億跟20億差2億而已政府怎麼不可以比較大幅度的誘因?內部討論是有考慮到一些橫平性還有一些租稅方面的一個橫平性的問題啦橫平性跟租稅方面喔?來那個財政部市長我請教一下\n\n10\n00:03:55,767 --> 00:04:12,708\n來讓您回答一下我講這個經濟部也不方便回答18億跟20億只有差一點點到底你們有沒有去精算過差這個2億你們的稅損會差多少所以如果不是太多的話為什麼不能變成20億\n\n11\n00:04:14,269 --> 00:04:37,421\n報告委員基本上我們當然是因為這個18億也是我們跟經濟部在行政院充分討論大家獲得的共識我瞭解是經濟部堅持喔那個是財政部堅持喔部長他希望的是20億喔所以部長現在還是在對外講說他希望能夠去爭取到20億如果說有差一點點或者是有超過20億的他還要想辦法去幫他們爭取一些優惠喔\n\n12\n00:04:38,321 --> 00:04:59,951\n其实我们有参考就是以往年度我们提供这个十条之一置机投底的那个金额大家适用的状况那其实看起来大部分的企业都是符合规定的都在我们那个十亿的金额以下那只是说少部分的产业当然有一部分会超过但是这次我们也配合就是加入人工智慧还有就是节能减碳我们也把这个金额提高了\n\n13\n00:05:00,331 --> 00:05:15,138\n那其實這個金額我們也是考慮說因為企業其實它購置機器設備它不會一次全部買足因為它是分年或者是分批分階段購置所以基本上它每一年只要在這個金額範圍內它都可以使用這個投資體檢優惠大家也知道一個設備如果金額很龐大勢必是要分階段分年來購置的所以我們覺得這個18億的金額其實也是我們在行政院跟經濟部也是有討價還價的結果才決定了這個金額我覺得你們我剛問了那個稅損\n\n14\n00:05:29,005 --> 00:05:46,911\n會差多少你們有沒有算過稅水二十億的部分你當然這樣講啊你當然說哎呀因為那個設備購資他不會一次一次把它購足嘛他會分年嘛我當然知道他會分年嘛但是如果政府能夠更大方一點我提供更好的租稅優惠更好的這些這些條件\n\n15\n00:05:48,181 --> 00:06:15,151\n我覺得其實它是會創造更多的誘因創造更多的投資而且你現在講的人工智慧其實很多的這些設備費用是跟你往年的這些設備費用其實是天差地別的所以你現在講說往年只有10億所以也達不到這個那我現在提高到18億我覺得已經對他們很好了我認為如果是這樣的思維其實這個不叫創新啦你們還是在講說我已經有給你了啦這樣已經夠了啦\n\n16\n00:06:16,833 --> 00:06:26,313\n而且您剛剛的報告其實你就跟各國來比較跟各國比較你就覺得說我們沒有比人家差但是你沒有告訴我你有沒有比人家好\n\n17\n00:06:27,813 --> 00:06:53,384\n這就是我們最大的問題你知道嗎你都告訴我說人家也有這樣啊人家也沒有那樣啊所以我們不會比人家差但是你沒有告訴我你提的這些東西有沒有比人家好所以我想這一點我覺得你們應該要換一個角度去思考你提出來的東西有沒有比人家好有沒有比其他國家好有沒有比其他國家更優惠這個才是創造誘因最大的利基點\n\n18\n00:06:54,244 --> 00:07:02,986\n一个主席已经站起来我就不再多说了但是我觉得可能你们还要再去思考一下好谢谢邱委员下位咨询请陈提飞委\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10301\t29615\t謝謝主席我先請一下經濟部經濟部林市長市長早市長很高興今天還可以在這裡看到你來那個在我們\n31149\t50648\t首先我想要先請教一個時事題馬上就要過年了那這個經濟部在日前有宣布春節的油價方案是止跌不漲對不對所以你們會在這個時候把這個油品的價格去把它控制在一定的油氣都不會調\n51229\t76175\t油氣都不會調那水電呢因為我看到卓院長說這個水價應該要適度的調整那開始就有媒體在寫說這個卓榮泰只是水價要上漲所以你們可能會上漲四成那很多人開始人心惶惶我是不是利用這個機會讓經濟部也說明一下好不好你們現在水電有沒有調整的方案那如果有什麼時候會做\n80196\t103036\t來我跟你們報告其實這個水電是不是要漲這個都有一個審議委員會而且這個審議委員會在調的時候也會通盤考量到國內的整個經濟情況還有民生的一個消費一個狀況不會說貿然去調整所以一定會經過一個深思熟慮的一個情況再來調整那院長講的只是說我們可以去討論但是討論不一定會去做一點\n103757\t123546\t也要等到一個不是說討論就一定事情調整你還是要等到你們的審議委員會討論完之後才會確定嘛對不對審議委員會一定會經過通盤完整的考量才會去做一些決定所以我想對於媒體這樣的報導我覺得可能你們也應該要去跟媒體做一些澄清因為第一個還沒有經過討論\n125816\t151425\t也不知道它到底會不會漲即使會漲也不一定是像媒體講的漲四成所以我認為這樣的一個報導其實對於大家覺得要過年了經濟部在處理會讓人心惶惶所以我想這個可能經濟部你們可能還是要再去做一些澄清再去做一些說明我們有述實對外澄清說這個東西\n153826\t176677\t接下來我想還是要請教一下次長我們今天討論這個產創條例這個大概整理了一下這個是你們行政院的幾個版本我現在大概幾個問題要請教這個問題大概其實大家都覺得抵減金額到底應該要多少會比較好行政院的版本是18億那本席提出的版本是20億\n177978\t204774\t那我的這個版本20億的數字呢其實是跟郭智慧部長希望的20億是一樣的可是我剛剛聽了財政部的報導他說我們已經通盤考量過了我們就這樣已經很好了所以呢他希望大院支持你們18億次長你們怎麼看因為我們這是行政院版本我們在內部所以你現在還是必須要支持行政院版本你還是只能講18億嘛對不對如果到20億會不會比較好一點\n207745\t232421\t如果到20億會不會比較好?你覺得到了20億是不是對企業的誘因會更增強一點?18億跟20億差2億而已政府怎麼不可以比較大幅度的誘因?內部討論是有考慮到一些橫平性還有一些租稅方面的一個橫平性的問題啦橫平性跟租稅方面喔?來那個財政部市長我請教一下\n235767\t252708\t來讓您回答一下 我講這個經濟部也不方便回答18億跟20億只有差一點點 到底你們有沒有去精算過差這個2億你們的稅損會差多少所以如果不是太多的話為什麼不能變成20億\n254269\t277421\t報告委員 基本上我們當然是因為這個18億也是我們跟經濟部在行政院充分討論大家獲得的共識我瞭解是經濟部堅持喔那個是財政部堅持喔部長他希望的是20億喔所以部長現在還是在對外講說他希望能夠去爭取到20億如果說有差一點點或者是有超過20億的他還要想辦法去幫他們爭取一些優惠喔\n278321\t299951\t其实我们有参考就是以往年度我们提供这个十条之一置机投底的那个金额大家适用的状况那其实看起来大部分的企业都是符合规定的都在我们那个十亿的金额以下那只是说少部分的产业当然有一部分会超过但是这次我们也配合就是加入人工智慧还有就是节能减碳我们也把这个金额提高了\n300331\t315138\t那其實這個金額我們也是考慮說因為企業其實它購置機器設備它不會一次全部買足因為它是分年或者是分批分階段購置所以基本上它每一年只要在這個金額範圍內它都可以使用這個投資體檢優惠大家也知道一個設備如果金額很龐大勢必是要分階段分年來購置的所以我們覺得這個18億的金額其實也是我們在行政院跟經濟部也是有討價還價的結果才決定了這個金額我覺得你們我剛問了那個稅損\n329005\t346911\t會差多少你們有沒有算過稅水二十億的部分你當然這樣講啊你當然說哎呀因為那個設備購資他不會一次一次把它購足嘛他會分年嘛我當然知道他會分年嘛但是如果政府能夠更大方一點我提供更好的租稅優惠更好的這些這些條件\n348181\t375151\t我覺得其實它是會創造更多的誘因創造更多的投資而且你現在講的人工智慧其實很多的這些設備費用是跟你往年的這些設備費用其實是天差地別的所以你現在講說往年只有10億所以也達不到這個那我現在提高到18億我覺得已經對他們很好了我認為如果是這樣的思維其實這個不叫創新啦你們還是在講說我已經有給你了啦這樣已經夠了啦\n376833\t386313\t而且您剛剛的報告其實你就跟各國來比較跟各國比較你就覺得說我們沒有比人家差但是你沒有告訴我你有沒有比人家好\n387813\t413384\t這就是我們最大的問題你知道嗎你都告訴我說人家也有這樣啊人家也沒有那樣啊所以我們不會比人家差但是你沒有告訴我你提的這些東西有沒有比人家好所以我想這一點我覺得你們應該要換一個角度去思考你提出來的東西有沒有比人家好有沒有比其他國家好有沒有比其他國家更優惠這個才是創造誘因最大的利基點\n414244\t422986\t一个主席已经站起来我就不再多说了但是我觉得可能你们还要再去思考一下好谢谢邱委员下位咨询请陈提飞委\n","txt":"謝謝主席我先請一下經濟部經濟部林市長市長早市長很高興今天還可以在這裡看到你來那個在我們\n首先我想要先請教一個時事題馬上就要過年了那這個經濟部在日前有宣布春節的油價方案是止跌不漲對不對所以你們會在這個時候把這個油品的價格去把它控制在一定的油氣都不會調\n油氣都不會調那水電呢因為我看到卓院長說這個水價應該要適度的調整那開始就有媒體在寫說這個卓榮泰只是水價要上漲所以你們可能會上漲四成那很多人開始人心惶惶我是不是利用這個機會讓經濟部也說明一下好不好你們現在水電有沒有調整的方案那如果有什麼時候會做\n來我跟你們報告其實這個水電是不是要漲這個都有一個審議委員會而且這個審議委員會在調的時候也會通盤考量到國內的整個經濟情況還有民生的一個消費一個狀況不會說貿然去調整所以一定會經過一個深思熟慮的一個情況再來調整那院長講的只是說我們可以去討論但是討論不一定會去做一點\n也要等到一個不是說討論就一定事情調整你還是要等到你們的審議委員會討論完之後才會確定嘛對不對審議委員會一定會經過通盤完整的考量才會去做一些決定所以我想對於媒體這樣的報導我覺得可能你們也應該要去跟媒體做一些澄清因為第一個還沒有經過討論\n也不知道它到底會不會漲即使會漲也不一定是像媒體講的漲四成所以我認為這樣的一個報導其實對於大家覺得要過年了經濟部在處理會讓人心惶惶所以我想這個可能經濟部你們可能還是要再去做一些澄清再去做一些說明我們有述實對外澄清說這個東西\n接下來我想還是要請教一下次長我們今天討論這個產創條例這個大概整理了一下這個是你們行政院的幾個版本我現在大概幾個問題要請教這個問題大概其實大家都覺得抵減金額到底應該要多少會比較好行政院的版本是18億那本席提出的版本是20億\n那我的這個版本20億的數字呢其實是跟郭智慧部長希望的20億是一樣的可是我剛剛聽了財政部的報導他說我們已經通盤考量過了我們就這樣已經很好了所以呢他希望大院支持你們18億次長你們怎麼看因為我們這是行政院版本我們在內部所以你現在還是必須要支持行政院版本你還是只能講18億嘛對不對如果到20億會不會比較好一點\n如果到20億會不會比較好?你覺得到了20億是不是對企業的誘因會更增強一點?18億跟20億差2億而已政府怎麼不可以比較大幅度的誘因?內部討論是有考慮到一些橫平性還有一些租稅方面的一個橫平性的問題啦橫平性跟租稅方面喔?來那個財政部市長我請教一下\n來讓您回答一下 我講這個經濟部也不方便回答18億跟20億只有差一點點 到底你們有沒有去精算過差這個2億你們的稅損會差多少所以如果不是太多的話為什麼不能變成20億\n報告委員 基本上我們當然是因為這個18億也是我們跟經濟部在行政院充分討論大家獲得的共識我瞭解是經濟部堅持喔那個是財政部堅持喔部長他希望的是20億喔所以部長現在還是在對外講說他希望能夠去爭取到20億如果說有差一點點或者是有超過20億的他還要想辦法去幫他們爭取一些優惠喔\n其实我们有参考就是以往年度我们提供这个十条之一置机投底的那个金额大家适用的状况那其实看起来大部分的企业都是符合规定的都在我们那个十亿的金额以下那只是说少部分的产业当然有一部分会超过但是这次我们也配合就是加入人工智慧还有就是节能减碳我们也把这个金额提高了\n那其實這個金額我們也是考慮說因為企業其實它購置機器設備它不會一次全部買足因為它是分年或者是分批分階段購置所以基本上它每一年只要在這個金額範圍內它都可以使用這個投資體檢優惠大家也知道一個設備如果金額很龐大勢必是要分階段分年來購置的所以我們覺得這個18億的金額其實也是我們在行政院跟經濟部也是有討價還價的結果才決定了這個金額我覺得你們我剛問了那個稅損\n會差多少你們有沒有算過稅水二十億的部分你當然這樣講啊你當然說哎呀因為那個設備購資他不會一次一次把它購足嘛他會分年嘛我當然知道他會分年嘛但是如果政府能夠更大方一點我提供更好的租稅優惠更好的這些這些條件\n我覺得其實它是會創造更多的誘因創造更多的投資而且你現在講的人工智慧其實很多的這些設備費用是跟你往年的這些設備費用其實是天差地別的所以你現在講說往年只有10億所以也達不到這個那我現在提高到18億我覺得已經對他們很好了我認為如果是這樣的思維其實這個不叫創新啦你們還是在講說我已經有給你了啦這樣已經夠了啦\n而且您剛剛的報告其實你就跟各國來比較跟各國比較你就覺得說我們沒有比人家差但是你沒有告訴我你有沒有比人家好\n這就是我們最大的問題你知道嗎你都告訴我說人家也有這樣啊人家也沒有那樣啊所以我們不會比人家差但是你沒有告訴我你提的這些東西有沒有比人家好所以我想這一點我覺得你們應該要換一個角度去思考你提出來的東西有沒有比人家好有沒有比其他國家好有沒有比其他國家更優惠這個才是創造誘因最大的利基點\n一个主席已经站起来我就不再多说了但是我觉得可能你们还要再去思考一下好谢谢邱委员下位咨询请陈提飞委\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.301 --> 00:29.615\n謝謝主席我先請一下經濟部經濟部林市長市長早市長很高興今天還可以在這裡看到你來那個在我們\n\n00:31.149 --> 00:50.648\n首先我想要先請教一個時事題馬上就要過年了那這個經濟部在日前有宣布春節的油價方案是止跌不漲對不對所以你們會在這個時候把這個油品的價格去把它控制在一定的油氣都不會調\n\n00:51.229 --> 01:16.175\n油氣都不會調那水電呢因為我看到卓院長說這個水價應該要適度的調整那開始就有媒體在寫說這個卓榮泰只是水價要上漲所以你們可能會上漲四成那很多人開始人心惶惶我是不是利用這個機會讓經濟部也說明一下好不好你們現在水電有沒有調整的方案那如果有什麼時候會做\n\n01:20.196 --> 01:43.036\n來我跟你們報告其實這個水電是不是要漲這個都有一個審議委員會而且這個審議委員會在調的時候也會通盤考量到國內的整個經濟情況還有民生的一個消費一個狀況不會說貿然去調整所以一定會經過一個深思熟慮的一個情況再來調整那院長講的只是說我們可以去討論但是討論不一定會去做一點\n\n01:43.757 --> 02:03.546\n也要等到一個不是說討論就一定事情調整你還是要等到你們的審議委員會討論完之後才會確定嘛對不對審議委員會一定會經過通盤完整的考量才會去做一些決定所以我想對於媒體這樣的報導我覺得可能你們也應該要去跟媒體做一些澄清因為第一個還沒有經過討論\n\n02:05.816 --> 02:31.425\n也不知道它到底會不會漲即使會漲也不一定是像媒體講的漲四成所以我認為這樣的一個報導其實對於大家覺得要過年了經濟部在處理會讓人心惶惶所以我想這個可能經濟部你們可能還是要再去做一些澄清再去做一些說明我們有述實對外澄清說這個東西\n\n02:33.826 --> 02:56.677\n接下來我想還是要請教一下次長我們今天討論這個產創條例這個大概整理了一下這個是你們行政院的幾個版本我現在大概幾個問題要請教這個問題大概其實大家都覺得抵減金額到底應該要多少會比較好行政院的版本是18億那本席提出的版本是20億\n\n02:57.978 --> 03:24.774\n那我的這個版本20億的數字呢其實是跟郭智慧部長希望的20億是一樣的可是我剛剛聽了財政部的報導他說我們已經通盤考量過了我們就這樣已經很好了所以呢他希望大院支持你們18億次長你們怎麼看因為我們這是行政院版本我們在內部所以你現在還是必須要支持行政院版本你還是只能講18億嘛對不對如果到20億會不會比較好一點\n\n03:27.745 --> 03:52.421\n如果到20億會不會比較好?你覺得到了20億是不是對企業的誘因會更增強一點?18億跟20億差2億而已政府怎麼不可以比較大幅度的誘因?內部討論是有考慮到一些橫平性還有一些租稅方面的一個橫平性的問題啦橫平性跟租稅方面喔?來那個財政部市長我請教一下\n\n03:55.767 --> 04:12.708\n來讓您回答一下我講這個經濟部也不方便回答18億跟20億只有差一點點到底你們有沒有去精算過差這個2億你們的稅損會差多少所以如果不是太多的話為什麼不能變成20億\n\n04:14.269 --> 04:37.421\n報告委員基本上我們當然是因為這個18億也是我們跟經濟部在行政院充分討論大家獲得的共識我瞭解是經濟部堅持喔那個是財政部堅持喔部長他希望的是20億喔所以部長現在還是在對外講說他希望能夠去爭取到20億如果說有差一點點或者是有超過20億的他還要想辦法去幫他們爭取一些優惠喔\n\n04:38.321 --> 04:59.951\n其实我们有参考就是以往年度我们提供这个十条之一置机投底的那个金额大家适用的状况那其实看起来大部分的企业都是符合规定的都在我们那个十亿的金额以下那只是说少部分的产业当然有一部分会超过但是这次我们也配合就是加入人工智慧还有就是节能减碳我们也把这个金额提高了\n\n05:00.331 --> 05:15.138\n那其實這個金額我們也是考慮說因為企業其實它購置機器設備它不會一次全部買足因為它是分年或者是分批分階段購置所以基本上它每一年只要在這個金額範圍內它都可以使用這個投資體檢優惠大家也知道一個設備如果金額很龐大勢必是要分階段分年來購置的所以我們覺得這個18億的金額其實也是我們在行政院跟經濟部也是有討價還價的結果才決定了這個金額我覺得你們我剛問了那個稅損\n\n05:29.005 --> 05:46.911\n會差多少你們有沒有算過稅水二十億的部分你當然這樣講啊你當然說哎呀因為那個設備購資他不會一次一次把它購足嘛他會分年嘛我當然知道他會分年嘛但是如果政府能夠更大方一點我提供更好的租稅優惠更好的這些這些條件\n\n05:48.181 --> 06:15.151\n我覺得其實它是會創造更多的誘因創造更多的投資而且你現在講的人工智慧其實很多的這些設備費用是跟你往年的這些設備費用其實是天差地別的所以你現在講說往年只有10億所以也達不到這個那我現在提高到18億我覺得已經對他們很好了我認為如果是這樣的思維其實這個不叫創新啦你們還是在講說我已經有給你了啦這樣已經夠了啦\n\n06:16.833 --> 06:26.313\n而且您剛剛的報告其實你就跟各國來比較跟各國比較你就覺得說我們沒有比人家差但是你沒有告訴我你有沒有比人家好\n\n06:27.813 --> 06:53.384\n這就是我們最大的問題你知道嗎你都告訴我說人家也有這樣啊人家也沒有那樣啊所以我們不會比人家差但是你沒有告訴我你提的這些東西有沒有比人家好所以我想這一點我覺得你們應該要換一個角度去思考你提出來的東西有沒有比人家好有沒有比其他國家好有沒有比其他國家更優惠這個才是創造誘因最大的利基點\n\n06:54.244 --> 07:02.986\n一个主席已经站起来我就不再多说了但是我觉得可能你们还要再去思考一下好谢谢邱委员下位咨询请陈提飞委\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.301,"end":29.615,"text":"謝謝主席我先請一下經濟部經濟部林市長市長早市長很高興今天還可以在這裡看到你來那個在我們"},{"start":31.149,"end":50.648,"text":"首先我想要先請教一個時事題馬上就要過年了那這個經濟部在日前有宣布春節的油價方案是止跌不漲對不對所以你們會在這個時候把這個油品的價格去把它控制在一定的油氣都不會調"},{"start":51.229,"end":76.175,"text":"油氣都不會調那水電呢因為我看到卓院長說這個水價應該要適度的調整那開始就有媒體在寫說這個卓榮泰只是水價要上漲所以你們可能會上漲四成那很多人開始人心惶惶我是不是利用這個機會讓經濟部也說明一下好不好你們現在水電有沒有調整的方案那如果有什麼時候會做"},{"start":80.196,"end":103.036,"text":"來我跟你們報告其實這個水電是不是要漲這個都有一個審議委員會而且這個審議委員會在調的時候也會通盤考量到國內的整個經濟情況還有民生的一個消費一個狀況不會說貿然去調整所以一定會經過一個深思熟慮的一個情況再來調整那院長講的只是說我們可以去討論但是討論不一定會去做一點"},{"start":103.757,"end":123.546,"text":"也要等到一個不是說討論就一定事情調整你還是要等到你們的審議委員會討論完之後才會確定嘛對不對審議委員會一定會經過通盤完整的考量才會去做一些決定所以我想對於媒體這樣的報導我覺得可能你們也應該要去跟媒體做一些澄清因為第一個還沒有經過討論"},{"start":125.816,"end":151.425,"text":"也不知道它到底會不會漲即使會漲也不一定是像媒體講的漲四成所以我認為這樣的一個報導其實對於大家覺得要過年了經濟部在處理會讓人心惶惶所以我想這個可能經濟部你們可能還是要再去做一些澄清再去做一些說明我們有述實對外澄清說這個東西"},{"start":153.826,"end":176.677,"text":"接下來我想還是要請教一下次長我們今天討論這個產創條例這個大概整理了一下這個是你們行政院的幾個版本我現在大概幾個問題要請教這個問題大概其實大家都覺得抵減金額到底應該要多少會比較好行政院的版本是18億那本席提出的版本是20億"},{"start":177.978,"end":204.774,"text":"那我的這個版本20億的數字呢其實是跟郭智慧部長希望的20億是一樣的可是我剛剛聽了財政部的報導他說我們已經通盤考量過了我們就這樣已經很好了所以呢他希望大院支持你們18億次長你們怎麼看因為我們這是行政院版本我們在內部所以你現在還是必須要支持行政院版本你還是只能講18億嘛對不對如果到20億會不會比較好一點"},{"start":207.745,"end":232.421,"text":"如果到20億會不會比較好?你覺得到了20億是不是對企業的誘因會更增強一點?18億跟20億差2億而已政府怎麼不可以比較大幅度的誘因?內部討論是有考慮到一些橫平性還有一些租稅方面的一個橫平性的問題啦橫平性跟租稅方面喔?來那個財政部市長我請教一下"},{"start":235.767,"end":252.708,"text":"來讓您回答一下 我講這個經濟部也不方便回答18億跟20億只有差一點點 到底你們有沒有去精算過差這個2億你們的稅損會差多少所以如果不是太多的話為什麼不能變成20億"},{"start":254.269,"end":277.421,"text":"報告委員 基本上我們當然是因為這個18億也是我們跟經濟部在行政院充分討論大家獲得的共識我瞭解是經濟部堅持喔那個是財政部堅持喔部長他希望的是20億喔所以部長現在還是在對外講說他希望能夠去爭取到20億如果說有差一點點或者是有超過20億的他還要想辦法去幫他們爭取一些優惠喔"},{"start":278.321,"end":299.951,"text":"其实我们有参考就是以往年度我们提供这个十条之一置机投底的那个金额大家适用的状况那其实看起来大部分的企业都是符合规定的都在我们那个十亿的金额以下那只是说少部分的产业当然有一部分会超过但是这次我们也配合就是加入人工智慧还有就是节能减碳我们也把这个金额提高了"},{"start":300.331,"end":315.138,"text":"那其實這個金額我們也是考慮說因為企業其實它購置機器設備它不會一次全部買足因為它是分年或者是分批分階段購置所以基本上它每一年只要在這個金額範圍內它都可以使用這個投資體檢優惠大家也知道一個設備如果金額很龐大勢必是要分階段分年來購置的所以我們覺得這個18億的金額其實也是我們在行政院跟經濟部也是有討價還價的結果才決定了這個金額我覺得你們我剛問了那個稅損"},{"start":329.005,"end":346.911,"text":"會差多少你們有沒有算過稅水二十億的部分你當然這樣講啊你當然說哎呀因為那個設備購資他不會一次一次把它購足嘛他會分年嘛我當然知道他會分年嘛但是如果政府能夠更大方一點我提供更好的租稅優惠更好的這些這些條件"},{"start":348.181,"end":375.151,"text":"我覺得其實它是會創造更多的誘因創造更多的投資而且你現在講的人工智慧其實很多的這些設備費用是跟你往年的這些設備費用其實是天差地別的所以你現在講說往年只有10億所以也達不到這個那我現在提高到18億我覺得已經對他們很好了我認為如果是這樣的思維其實這個不叫創新啦你們還是在講說我已經有給你了啦這樣已經夠了啦"},{"start":376.833,"end":386.313,"text":"而且您剛剛的報告其實你就跟各國來比較跟各國比較你就覺得說我們沒有比人家差但是你沒有告訴我你有沒有比人家好"},{"start":387.813,"end":413.384,"text":"這就是我們最大的問題你知道嗎你都告訴我說人家也有這樣啊人家也沒有那樣啊所以我們不會比人家差但是你沒有告訴我你提的這些東西有沒有比人家好所以我想這一點我覺得你們應該要換一個角度去思考你提出來的東西有沒有比人家好有沒有比其他國家好有沒有比其他國家更優惠這個才是創造誘因最大的利基點"},{"start":414.244,"end":422.986,"text":"一个主席已经站起来我就不再多说了但是我觉得可能你们还要再去思考一下好谢谢邱委员下位咨询请陈提飞委"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":132,"blocks":[["邱委員議瑩：（9時20分）謝謝主席。我先請一下經濟部。"],["主席：請經濟部連次長。"],["連次長錦漳：委員早。"],["邱委員議瑩：次長早。次長，很高興今天還可以在這裡看到你。首先我想要先請教一個時事題，馬上就要過年了，經濟部在日前有宣布春節的油價方案是只跌不漲，對不對？"],["連次長錦漳：對。"],["邱委員議瑩：所以你們會在這個時候，把油品的價格控制在一定的……"],["連次長錦漳：油、氣都不會調。"],["邱委員議瑩：油、氣都不會調，那水電呢？"],["連次長錦漳：水在春節不會……"],["邱委員議瑩：因為我看到卓院長說水價應該要適度的調整，開始就有媒體在寫卓榮泰指示水價要上漲，所以你們可能會上漲四成，很多人開始人心惶惶，我是不是利用這個機會讓經濟部也說明一下好不好？我們現在水電有沒有調整的方案，如果有，什麼時候會做？次長。"],["連次長錦漳：我跟委員報告，其實水、電是不是要漲，這都有一個審議委員會，而且審議委員會在調的時候，也會通盤考量到國內的整個經濟情況，還有民生消費狀況，不會貿然去調整，所以一定會經過一個深思熟慮的情況再來調整。院長講的只是我們可以去討論，但是討論不一定會去做調整，也要等到一個……不是討論就一定是調整……"],["邱委員議瑩：你還是要等到你們的審議委員會討論完之後才會確定嘛，對不對？"],["連次長錦漳：一定要經過審議委員會，審議委員會一定會經過通盤完整的考量，才會去做一些決定。"],["邱委員議瑩：好。對於媒體這樣的報導，我覺得可能你們也應該要去跟媒體做一些澄清，因為第一個，還沒有經過討論，也不知道它到底會不會漲，即使會漲，也不一定是像媒體講的……"],["連次長錦漳：也不一定像媒體講的這樣子。"],["邱委員議瑩：對啊！媒體馬上就給你寫「漲四成」。所以我認為這樣的一個報導，其實對於大家覺得要過年了，經濟部在處理……"],["連次長錦漳：是有點會讓人心惶惶。"],["邱委員議瑩：是，所以我想這個經濟部可能還是要再去做一些澄清，再去做一些說明。"],["連次長錦漳：好，我們有適時對外澄清說明這個部分。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，接下來，我還是要請教一下次長，我們今天討論產創條例，大概整理了一下，這個是你們行政院的幾個版本嘛，我現在大概幾個問題要請教，其實大家都覺得抵減金額到底應該要多少會比較好？行政院的版本是18億，本席提出的版本是20億，我這個版本20億的數字，其實是跟郭智輝部長希望的20億是一樣的，可是我剛剛聽了財政部的報導說他們已經通盤考量過了，他們覺得這樣已經很好了，所以他希望大院支持你們18億。次長，你們怎麼看？"],["連次長錦漳：因為我們這是行政院版本，我們在內部……"],["邱委員議瑩：我知道，所以你現在還是必須要支持行政院版本，你還是只能講18億，對不對？"],["連次長錦漳：因為我們有稍微考慮……"],["邱委員議瑩：如果到20億會不會比較好一點？你覺得到了20億是不是對企業的誘因會更增強一點？18億跟20億差兩億而已，政府怎麼不能大方一點給他們大一點的誘因？"],["連次長錦漳：內部討論時，有考慮到一些衡平性，還有租稅方面衡平性的問題。"],["邱委員議瑩：衡平性跟租稅方面？好，財政部次長，我請教一下，讓您回答一下，我想經濟部也不方便回答。"],["李次長慶華：委員好，是。"],["邱委員議瑩：18億跟20億只有差一點點，到底你們有沒有去精算過？差兩億，你們的稅損會差多少，如果不是太多的話，為什麼不能變成20億？"],["李次長慶華：報告委員，因為這18億也是我們跟經濟部在行政院充分討論，大家獲得的共識……"],["邱委員議瑩：但我了解是財政部堅持喔！郭部長他希望的是20億。"],["李次長慶華：沒有、沒有，因為我們……"],["邱委員議瑩：所以部長現在還是在對外講他希望能夠去爭取到20億，如果有差一點點或者是有超過20億，他還要想辦法去幫他們爭取一些優惠。"],["李次長慶華：跟委員報告，其實我們有參考以往年度我們提供第十條之一智機投抵的金額，大家適用的狀況，其實看起來，大部分的企業都是符合規定的，都在我們10億的金額以下，只是少部分的產業，當然有一部分會超過，但是這次我們也配合加入人工智慧還有節能減碳，我們也把金額提高了。其實這個金額，我們也是考慮到因為企業其實購置機器設備，它不會一次全部買足，因為它是分年或者是分批、分階段購置，所以基本上每一年只要在這個金額範圍內，它都可以適用投資抵減優惠。大家也知道，一個設備如果金額很龐大，勢必是要分階段、分年來購置的，所以我們覺得18億的金額，其實也是我們在行政院跟經濟部有討價還價的結果才決定了這個金額。"],["邱委員議瑩：我剛剛問你們稅損會差多少，你們有沒有算過？"],["李次長慶華：稅損20億的部分，因為我們……"],["邱委員議瑩：你當然這樣講，你當然說因為設備購置不會一次購足，它會分年……"],["李次長慶華：是，它會分年購置。"],["邱委員議瑩：我當然知道它會分年，但是如果政府能夠更大方一點、提供更好的租稅優惠及更好的這些條件，我覺得其實它是會創造更多的誘因、創造更多的投資，而且你現在講的人工智慧，很多、很多的設備費用是跟往年的這一些設備費用其實是天差地別的，所以你現在講往年只有10億也達不到這個，而現在提高到18億，你們覺得已經對他們很好了。我認為如果是這樣的思維，其實這個不叫創新，你們還是在講「我已經有給你了，這樣已經夠了」，而且您剛剛的報告，其實跟各國來比較，你就覺得我們沒有比人家差，但是你沒有告訴我，你有沒有比人家好，這就是我們最大的問題，你知道嗎？你都告訴我人家也有這樣、人家也沒有那樣，所以我們不會比人家差，但是你沒有告訴我，你提的這些東西有沒有比人家好？所以我想這一點，我認為你們應該要換一個角度去思考，你提出來的東西有沒有比人家好，有沒有比其他國家好，有沒有比其他國家更優惠，這才是創造誘因最大的立基點。","因為主席已經站起來，我就不再多說了，但是我覺得可能你們還要再去思考一下，謝謝。"],["李次長慶華：謝謝委員指教。"],["主席：謝謝邱議瑩委員。","下一位質詢請陳亭妃委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":452,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-19,20-1","speakers":["邱志偉","葛如鈞","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","邱議瑩","陳亭妃","郭國文","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","謝衣鳯","鄭正鈐","呂玉玲","李坤城","陳超明","賴士葆","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","賴瑞隆","葉元之","黃珊珊","蔡易餘","洪孟楷","林德福","林岱樺","顏寬恒","張嘉郡","李彥秀","羅明才"],"page_start":327,"meetingDate":["2025-01-15"],"gazette_id":"1142101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142101_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、行政院函請審議「產業創新條例部分條文修正草案」案；二、本院委員葛如鈞等16人\n擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一及第十七條之一條文修正草案」案；三、本院委員林岱樺等18人\n擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一及第十七條之一條文修正草案」案；四、本院委員楊瓊瓔等29人\n擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一及第七十二條條文修正草案」案；五、本院委員何欣純等23人擬\n具「產業創新條例第十條之一條文修正草案」案；六、本院委員邱議瑩等16人擬具「產業創新條\n例第十條之一及第七十二條條文修正草案」案；七、本院委員蔡其昌等18人擬具「產業創新條例\n第十條之一及第七十二條條文修正草案」案；八、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「產業創新條例第十\n條之一條文修正草案」案；九、本院委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一及第七十\n二條條文修正草案」案；十、本院委員邱志偉等20人擬具「產業創新條例部分條文修正草案」\n案；十一、本院委員鄭正鈐等19人擬具「產業創新條例第十條之一條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1142101_00005"}}}