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\"text\": \"那個在預算的順利的通過啦三班護病筆的入法是賴總統的政見您會把這件事情也當成您在任以內的一件當務之急嗎我們當然是很這個當然是重要的任務而這個任務我們必須瞭解護理的心聲當然我們也會跟相關譬如說醫院的院方大家來談一下怎麼樣在一種\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 575.72, \"end\": 576.721, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 576.721, \"end\": 577.021, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 577.021, \"end\": 577.241, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 577.241, \"end\": 579.422, \"score\": 0.774}, {\"word\": \"順\"}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 579.422, \"end\": 579.562, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 579.562, \"end\": 579.682, \"score\": 0.776}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 579.682, \"end\": 580.463, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 580.463, \"end\": 580.703, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 580.703, \"end\": 580.903, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"班\", \"start\": 580.903, \"end\": 581.103, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"護\"}, {\"word\": \"病\", 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\"end\": 622.814, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 622.814, \"end\": 622.914, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 622.914, \"end\": 623.335, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"亂\"}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 623.335, \"end\": 623.355, \"score\": 0.591}]}, {\"start\": 623.795, \"end\": 644.362, \"text\": \"可以順利的應轉我會再跟部長您追進度部長這個有許許多的官員在外面致詞甚至是賴總統呢在2月4號的世界癌症日上是直接說癌症篩檢行政費用刪了一成凍結三成請問您這件事情到底是不是事實嗯\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 623.795, \"end\": 623.875, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 623.875, \"end\": 624.215, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"順\"}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 624.215, \"end\": 624.315, \"score\": 0.721}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 624.315, \"end\": 626.996, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"轉\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 626.996, \"end\": 627.136, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 627.136, \"end\": 627.236, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"跟\", 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635.279, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"界\", \"start\": 635.279, \"end\": 635.419, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"癌\", \"start\": 635.419, \"end\": 635.599, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"症\", \"start\": 635.599, \"end\": 635.779, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 635.779, \"end\": 635.939, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 635.939, \"end\": 636.119, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 636.119, \"end\": 636.259, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 636.259, \"end\": 636.379, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 636.379, \"end\": 637.179, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"癌\", \"start\": 637.179, \"end\": 637.379, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"症\", \"start\": 637.379, \"end\": 638.12, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"篩\"}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 638.12, \"end\": 638.3, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 638.3, \"end\": 638.9, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 638.9, \"end\": 639.32, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"刪\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 639.32, \"end\": 639.44, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 639.44, \"end\": 639.58, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 639.58, \"end\": 640.901, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"凍\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 640.901, \"end\": 641.201, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 641.201, \"end\": 641.761, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 641.761, \"end\": 642.641, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 642.641, \"end\": 642.841, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 642.841, \"end\": 642.981, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 642.981, \"end\": 643.241, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 643.241, \"end\": 643.501, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 643.501, \"end\": 643.701, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 643.701, \"end\": 643.842, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 643.842, \"end\": 643.942, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 643.942, \"end\": 644.122, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 644.122, \"end\": 644.342, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"嗯\", \"start\": 644.342, \"end\": 644.362, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 655.887, \"end\": 679.775, \"text\": \"癌症這個部分當然是國健署國健署只要是凍結業務會其實對於推動各種因為我們那個衛福部我問你到底是不是一層跟三層這件事情到底是不是事實統三一層 凍三層這樣子所以還是會有影響看起來是會有影響\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"癌\", \"start\": 655.887, \"end\": 656.067, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"症\", \"start\": 656.067, \"end\": 656.428, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 656.428, \"end\": 656.548, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 656.548, \"end\": 657.128, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 657.128, \"end\": 657.228, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": 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679.175, \"end\": 679.355, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 679.355, \"end\": 679.635, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 679.635, \"end\": 679.755, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 679.755, \"end\": 679.775, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"響\"}]}, {\"start\": 681.397, \"end\": 704.903, \"text\": \"我弄下一張給你看這個是你們新增了41億的癌症篩檢預算喔重要的科子目包含業務費獎勵助費是不是到現在其實你們也還沒有確定這筆新的大預算還沒有核實分配是不是這主要這一次來講在動3的部分就是在5.93億的那個部分\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 681.397, \"end\": 681.537, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"弄\", \"start\": 681.537, \"end\": 681.757, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 681.757, \"end\": 682.157, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 682.157, \"end\": 682.277, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 682.277, \"end\": 682.397, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 682.397, \"end\": 683.658, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 683.658, \"end\": 683.938, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 683.938, \"end\": 684.218, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 684.218, \"end\": 684.438, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 684.438, \"end\": 684.578, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 684.578, \"end\": 685.538, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 685.538, \"end\": 685.798, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"癌\", \"start\": 685.798, \"end\": 685.978, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"症\", \"start\": 685.978, \"end\": 686.778, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"篩\"}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 686.778, \"end\": 686.959, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"喔\", \"start\": 686.959, \"end\": 687.719, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 687.719, \"end\": 687.959, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"要\", 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{\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 692.66, \"end\": 692.96, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 692.96, \"end\": 693.86, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 693.86, \"end\": 694.12, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 694.12, \"end\": 694.401, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 694.401, \"end\": 694.521, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 694.521, \"end\": 694.901, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 694.901, \"end\": 695.541, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"筆\"}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 695.541, \"end\": 695.741, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 695.741, \"end\": 695.901, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 695.901, \"end\": 696.321, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 696.321, \"end\": 696.681, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 696.681, \"end\": 696.841, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 696.841, \"end\": 697.001, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 697.001, \"end\": 697.481, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 697.481, \"end\": 697.681, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"配\", \"start\": 697.681, \"end\": 697.921, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 697.921, \"end\": 698.042, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 698.042, \"end\": 698.142, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 698.142, \"end\": 701.102, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 701.102, \"end\": 701.242, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 701.242, \"end\": 701.522, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 701.522, \"end\": 701.642, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 701.642, \"end\": 702.603, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 702.603, \"end\": 703.523, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 703.523, \"end\": 703.663, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 703.663, \"end\": 703.803, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 703.803, \"end\": 704.043, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 704.043, \"end\": 704.203, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 704.203, \"end\": 704.363, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 704.363, \"end\": 704.563, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 704.563, \"end\": 704.583, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 704.583, \"end\": 704.643, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 704.643, \"end\": 704.883, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 704.883, \"end\": 704.903, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 708.737, \"end\": 723.554, \"text\": \"所以不是一層跟三層嗎就是5.93%裡面的一層跟三層如果是整體的那一層跟三層影響就可能小一點所以不是癌症篩檢我們講的是A5會的推動所以不是癌症篩檢嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 708.737, \"end\": 708.837, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 708.837, \"end\": 709.558, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 709.558, \"end\": 709.658, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 709.658, \"end\": 709.778, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 709.778, \"end\": 710.099, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"層\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 710.099, \"end\": 710.259, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 710.259, \"end\": 710.879, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"層\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 710.879, \"end\": 711.0, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 711.0, \"end\": 712.541, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 712.541, \"end\": 712.661, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 712.661, \"end\": 712.782, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 712.782, \"end\": 713.062, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"層\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 713.062, \"end\": 713.242, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 713.242, \"end\": 714.784, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"層\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 714.784, \"end\": 715.004, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 715.004, \"end\": 715.204, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 715.204, \"end\": 715.805, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 715.805, \"end\": 716.205, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 716.205, \"end\": 716.566, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 716.566, \"end\": 716.746, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 716.746, \"end\": 717.006, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"層\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 717.006, \"end\": 717.166, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"三\", 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\"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 968.327, \"end\": 968.347, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,807 --> 00:00:06,988\n謝謝請求部長\n\n2\n00:00:13,081 --> 00:00:40,810\n委員好部長好我們放第一張表第一張表是其實也是您親自傳給我的啦那當然我跟陳昭之委員也問的東西有點不太一樣我是很想知道說您會覺得這個表的統計方式是不是有欠改善因為有護理師跟我反映說這個年資一年啊到底是在這個醫院上班一年還是他當的護理師一年\n\n3\n00:00:42,065 --> 00:01:03,864\n的年資因為他們認為如果你真的有問到這樣子的數據也許他之前已經職業非常久了那他可能在目前你調查的這家醫院一年所以才會到達這樣子的一般民眾覺得這樣子是有感的高薪啊我想知道您對於這個統計方法有沒有什麼看法比如說你的樣本數是怎麼取的\n\n4\n00:01:04,813 --> 00:01:33,190\n好包委員我昨天在看一下我傳給您的這個line是傳到這個但是其實我們好像沒有傳到一個網站那這個網站是在民國122年11月的時候衛福部請各縣市衛生局邀請全國的醫院去把他的收入因為那是要賺40多萬我跟你一樣我們都覺得護理人員非常辛苦他的薪水如果能夠再提升\n\n5\n00:01:34,031 --> 00:01:49,468\n再提升再提升如果說今天真的是他們很滿意了我想也不會有人才流失的問題嘛大家會離開職場表示不夠嘛表示我們必須要大家再努力嘛我想這個部分是基本觀念所以我從來沒有講過一或乎\n\n6\n00:01:52,553 --> 00:02:11,289\n現在的待遇是OK的所以您未來我想主席在這也知道我們都一直在努力幫醫療醫護的一個職場做得更好那其實裡面的報告112年以後那400多家包括醫學中心區醫院應該也有地區醫院有地區醫院\n\n7\n00:02:12,089 --> 00:02:33,270\n其實那個大家正面思考,它的呈現是讓我們的護院員能夠,我要去台大申請比較好還是要買這個,我覺得買這個情緒比較高,福利比較好,我就去啊另外現在那個後來,以前大家不注意這個網站,現在注意這個網站以後,發現中部很多醫院就說我好像比人家低,所以他們就會提升\n\n8\n00:02:34,631 --> 00:02:45,293\n所以是有見錢思齊的效果那如果說造成大家有些比較可能沒有領到那麼多應該見錢思齊這個好像我們必須要在公衛裡面是沒有絕對有領到這個錢的為什麼我們會質疑是因為你放這張表但是晚上在這些機關裡面上班的人並沒有人說他們有拿到這樣子的薪資啊\n\n9\n00:03:03,837 --> 00:03:25,169\n所以他們才會另外在他們的這個官方的粉專做一些發文啊所以我想用健賢思齊這個好像有點難怪的比如說我們看這一張好了啦如果他是在私立醫院的最小值是42336而且這個值應該是總收入嘛包括就是說你在報課交評單的時候你年度你報課交評單的時候\n\n10\n00:03:28,567 --> 00:03:49,414\n像我以前在台大當第五年組織醫師的時候我的基本薪是六萬多可是我有專業加給五萬多然後再加上績效獎金大概十八萬好了我出去外面我報稅是報十八萬我不是報六萬多所以不好意思那是一種看你是總收入\n\n11\n00:03:50,254 --> 00:04:13,851\n還是看年資的還是看那個薪資基本薪資的一個概念那如果讓大家一起誤解我在這邊還是要道歉啦因為這個data本來我們就好意讓醫院自己去填那我有問過所有醫院的院長我昨天也要求醫院協會的李輝鵬理事長我說拜託啊你聽他查看嘛說各醫院填的到底是真的還假的\n\n12\n00:04:14,731 --> 00:04:29,117\n他說這個是人事跟護理部填的啊人事是跟護理部填的所以部長您願意跟辛苦的護理師說真的很不好意思這個表格可能沒有如果大家的薪水還是低我覺得我很難過也願意來努力\n\n13\n00:04:33,673 --> 00:05:01,012\n那數據的呈現讓大家產生誤解這個我當然是可以跟大家抱歉但是你放心不管是你在任何一個職位不管你在醫院包括診所我們現在診所診所很多醫生說他四萬幾塊他也請不上來現在我們前幾天其實洪孟海委員也有質詢這個議題但是你始終沒有正面回答所以我稍微播放一下那一天你們的對談\n\n14\n00:05:06,681 --> 00:05:08,102\n有聲音嗎就當天呢我看一下字幕卓院長是跟您講說平均看下來的話他覺得應該要很說明的清楚並且不是用這樣子的數字還有社會做一個假象的宣示所以卓院長表示這是一個假象的宣示那當天我有聽您的答詢\n\n15\n00:05:34,139 --> 00:05:51,720\n您說其實你有多方的跟醫院管理端討論過所以這個數據是千真萬確也並不是醫院管理端要欺騙你的或是什麼但是你有沒有想過從剛剛這張表的統計方式比如說你的抽樣的樣本到底公不公允\n\n16\n00:05:52,321 --> 00:06:07,614\n另外你有沒有跟這個基層的勞方代表來討論過然後你有沒有在多方查證您認為這個會不會是你未來還要再做這些統計的改善方法呢好一定我想第一個我們一定非常歡迎\n\n17\n00:06:09,615 --> 00:06:23,369\n相關的醫事團體如果您覺得在衛護部可以幫大家做什麼事情都可以排時間我們來好好的來討論一下我們歡迎尤其是婦女的同仁婦女有好幾個團體意見有稍微有一點不一樣但是我們絕對都願意第二個這個數據的算法\n\n18\n00:06:27,393 --> 00:06:52,935\n是從112年那個時候就用這種算法用總收入的一個概念在算如果引起大家的誤解我馬上要趙律師再去重新的請各業寫清楚就比如說您剛講的把這些津貼再分開不用給我們一個加總的數字就是給我們一個大概的數字但是有可能加到其他的津貼我未來是這樣建議啦不知道您採不採納\n\n19\n00:06:56,963 --> 00:07:13,056\n我們希望我們希望朝著這個我們會請不是邀請我們我們是要拜託醫院一定要去呈現呈現那個真實的數據因為只有公開透明才是解決問題的最基本的一個\n\n20\n00:07:13,476 --> 00:07:37,498\n那也希望您多方查證這邊當然也是幫護理師請願因為非常多人傳來他們真實的薪水單等等另外他們也在網路上寫了很多他們在護理工作上比如說被家屬質疑態度被病人呼來喚去等等等等但是最近也有一批另外的網軍說喊話的這些醫護人員其實是敵國的網軍可不可以幫他們講幾句話\n\n21\n00:07:39,119 --> 00:07:55,260\n您知道現在的離職率是真的很高有院長說他是來不及簽離職單前幾天也有一位護理師說他在排隊簽離職單的時候等了一個小時我想問您會不會真的覺得現在這個離職潮是應該要解決的問題了\n\n22\n00:07:57,393 --> 00:08:17,500\n我們要用科學的根據來看至於每一個離職的頭人我們都很心痛包括我以前在病房我們一起訓練的一個台大護理系很優秀的學生想說這個將來我們一定是在護理界花光花熱可是他工作了半年以後畢業以後工作半年竟然要離職\n\n23\n00:08:19,022 --> 00:08:41,378\n我們是會非常心痛所以任何一個離職我們都非常重視不是整批那至於說要等一個小時我們也去問台北市護理師公衛他說那一天3月3號剛好是最最多人的時候因為有些要直登有些要入離職所以那個部分我們去我們可以來分析我們也問過台中市長其實\n\n24\n00:08:42,919 --> 00:09:00,505\n都可能剛好有一坡比較起來因為每個時段不太一樣尤其在過年後會有離職坡可是在七八月又會有入來那去年的時候越到比一年以前我們增加的大概有留任的護理人員大概增加有3800個左右那其中有1200個是在醫院所以我們會會繼續努力絕對這樣不夠\n\n25\n00:09:05,768 --> 00:09:14,542\n我們會繼續努力那你有想要這個去年年初就已經前一任行政長都答應的白板津貼今年應該就是可以發出來了吧\n\n26\n00:09:15,287 --> 00:09:34,880\n我們現在跟護理界的一個長期的討論是說我們在那個三班護病比的獎勵你一定要去顧及到要給白班現在先這樣做所以白班等於其實是會領到三班當然這個因為公務預算也希望\n\n27\n00:09:35,720 --> 00:10:03,076\n那個在預算的順利的通過啦三班護病筆的入法是賴總統的政見您會把這件事情也當成您在任以內的一件當務之急嗎我們當然是很這個當然是重要的任務而這個任務我們必須瞭解護理的心聲當然我們也會跟相關譬如說醫院的院方大家來談一下怎麼樣在一種\n\n28\n00:10:04,511 --> 00:10:23,355\n所謂的無痛學習我們學習到無痛學習這個就是說能夠維繫病床的一個情況之下我常常在講我們醫療改革有三個第一個要提供給民眾最高的醫療品質第二個要給醫事人員最好的尊嚴第三個也要給醫療人員可以亂嘛\n\n29\n00:10:23,795 --> 00:10:44,362\n可以順利的應轉我會再跟部長您追進度部長這個有許許多的官員在外面致詞甚至是賴總統呢在2月4號的世界癌症日上是直接說癌症篩檢行政費用刪了一成凍結三成請問您這件事情到底是不是事實嗯\n\n30\n00:10:55,887 --> 00:11:19,775\n癌症這個部分當然是國健署國健署只要是凍結業務會其實對於推動各種因為我們那個衛福部我問你到底是不是一層跟三層這件事情到底是不是事實統三一層凍三層這樣子所以還是會有影響看起來是會有影響\n\n31\n00:11:21,397 --> 00:11:44,903\n我弄下一張給你看這個是你們新增了41億的癌症篩檢預算喔重要的科子目包含業務費獎勵助費是不是到現在其實你們也還沒有確定這筆新的大預算還沒有核實分配是不是這主要這一次來講在動3的部分就是在5.93億的那個部分\n\n32\n00:11:48,737 --> 00:12:03,554\n所以不是一層跟三層嗎就是5.93%裡面的一層跟三層如果是整體的那一層跟三層影響就可能小一點所以不是癌症篩檢我們講的是A5會的推動所以不是癌症篩檢嗎\n\n33\n00:12:05,228 --> 00:12:07,169\n所以兩位其實現在就是說2月4號賴總統講的那句話不屬實嘛因為2月5號我發了這個公文我也是詢問說到底是不是這樣子結果你們回的是說\n\n34\n00:12:26,118 --> 00:12:42,947\n因為未獲得具體的結論故總預算稅出稅入三減凍結金額與立法院朝野協商達成共識後即可具體核算這是你們給我的公文耶但是你們怎麼可以在外面說這樣子的說法呢好我想我們在邊各個司署在邊內預算除了業務費當然還有實質上的付給付給那個\n\n35\n00:12:55,543 --> 00:13:12,794\n跟醫療院說這是連在一起的啦一定只要是那個當然就會影響到我是希望啦來部長這張你前幾天也看過了我們衛生福利部已經增加了三千億的預算國民健康署已經增加了五\n\n36\n00:13:14,697 --> 00:13:30,398\n55億的預算如果你們繼續在外面講根本還沒有算出來的比例我覺得真的是有失公允我希望各位官員包括可能我沒辦法勸告總統但是我真的希望各位官員出去說話的時候還是要有所本啊\n\n37\n00:13:30,999 --> 00:13:34,423\n這個是我看我們第一輪我們只有減列15萬第二輪我們還讓你我們還提案讓你可以科目自行調整所以當你多拿了3000億多拿了55億然後你一直說這個做不到那個做不到我覺得情何以堪那\n\n38\n00:13:49,246 --> 00:14:08,072\n部長我們其實去年3月也在這邊排了解凍案我回去算了一下我們總共排了22個解凍案您只要好好的報告其實我們這22個解凍案也都解凍了你們去年3月提出4月就已經解凍了如果你們今年還要復議然後還要因為這樣子去延宕的話又把\n\n39\n00:14:10,393 --> 00:14:28,183\n這個解凍沒有癱瘓國政又到處出去宣講我覺得這樣真的是很不對的思維我覺得委員會因為我們大家都是未完長久的比較了解到人民健康需要的資源所以大家真的很感謝在委員會裡面大家給最大的幫忙可是在統三統\n\n40\n00:14:29,483 --> 00:14:43,572\n動這個部分大概就會比較真的會影響到業務相當的執行比如說你少了你說好幾月以後才解凍可是我現在就要去買疫苗啦就要去跟人家簽約現在所有的人都知道我\n\n41\n00:14:44,432 --> 00:15:01,800\n只好不敢不曉得當然你說3月1號3月會出動其實如果你不要提復一案這個洞穴不就有就現在就要排了嗎這非常是一個未知是對我們計畫到底要合出去合不合出去以及在那邊期待建設的的確是真的部長我最後真的啦具體建議啦\n\n42\n00:15:04,241 --> 00:15:17,566\n如果你們真的沒有核算出核實的金額或者是比例的話也很希望你們出去在做一些演講公開的說明的時候真的可以說保守一點說實話我還是拜託我們委員能夠盡量讓我們因為\n\n43\n00:15:20,887 --> 00:15:37,956\n國健署他增加的預算其實就是我們已經多年來在全民間在癌症篩檢其實你看我剛剛講第一輪我們減劣15萬你編了111億我們減劣15萬其實各朝野的委員是非常支持你們的看得出來啊對吧111億我們減劣15萬\n\n44\n00:15:43,762 --> 00:16:08,347\n對,我想在委員會裡面,我想值得大家給人民的健康很大的支持,這個真的非常感謝但是在桶山桶洞這個部分,仍然已經造成了現在的在業務上需要比較再要努力去調整我知道,其實大家有在聽前幾天的質詢,多了三千億、多了五十五億還是知愛難行,這個大家都聽懂了好,謝謝委員謝謝陳委員,謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6807\t6988\t謝謝請求部長\n13081\t40810\t委員好部長好我們放第一張表第一張表是其實也是您親自傳給我的啦那當然我跟陳昭之委員也問的東西有點不太一樣我是很想知道說您會覺得這個表的統計方式是不是有欠改善因為有護理師跟我反映說這個年資一年啊到底是在這個醫院上班一年還是他當的護理師一年\n42065\t63864\t的年資因為他們認為如果你真的有問到這樣子的數據也許他之前已經職業非常久了那他可能在目前你調查的這家醫院一年所以才會到達這樣子的一般民眾覺得這樣子是有感的高薪啊我想知道您對於這個統計方法有沒有什麼看法比如說你的樣本數是怎麼取的\n64813\t93190\t好 包委員我昨天在看一下我傳給您的這個line是傳到這個但是其實我們好像沒有傳到一個網站那這個網站是在民國122年11月的時候衛福部請各縣市衛生局邀請全國的醫院去把他的收入因為那是要賺40多萬我跟你一樣我們都覺得護理人員非常辛苦他的薪水如果能夠再提升\n94031\t109468\t再提升再提升如果說今天真的是他們很滿意了我想也不會有人才流失的問題嘛大家會離開職場表示不夠嘛表示我們必須要大家再努力嘛我想這個部分是基本觀念所以我從來沒有講過一或乎\n112553\t131289\t現在的待遇是OK的所以您未來我想主席在這也知道我們都一直在努力幫醫療醫護的一個職場做得更好那其實裡面的報告112年以後那400多家包括醫學中心區醫院應該也有地區醫院有地區醫院\n132089\t153270\t其實那個大家正面思考,它的呈現是讓我們的護院員能夠,我要去台大申請比較好還是要買這個,我覺得買這個情緒比較高,福利比較好,我就去啊另外現在那個後來,以前大家不注意這個網站,現在注意這個網站以後,發現中部很多醫院就說我好像比人家低,所以他們就會提升\n154631\t165293\t所以是有見錢思齊的效果那如果說造成大家有些比較可能沒有領到那麼多應該見錢思齊這個好像我們必須要在公衛裡面是沒有絕對有領到這個錢的為什麼我們會質疑是因為你放這張表但是晚上在這些機關裡面上班的人並沒有人說他們有拿到這樣子的薪資啊\n183837\t205169\t所以他們才會另外在他們的這個官方的粉專做一些發文啊所以我想用健賢思齊這個好像有點難怪的比如說我們看這一張好了啦如果他是在私立醫院的最小值是42336而且這個值應該是總收入嘛包括就是說你在報課交評單的時候你年度你報課交評單的時候\n208567\t229414\t像我以前在台大當第五年組織醫師的時候我的基本薪是六萬多可是我有專業加給五萬多然後再加上績效獎金大概十八萬好了我出去外面我報稅是報十八萬我不是報六萬多所以不好意思那是一種看你是總收入\n230254\t253851\t還是看年資的 還是看那個薪資 基本薪資的一個概念那如果讓大家一起誤解 我在這邊還是要道歉啦因為這個data 本來我們就好意讓醫院自己去填那我有問過所有醫院的院長 我昨天也要求醫院協會的李輝鵬理事長我說拜託啊 你聽他查看嘛 說各醫院填的到底是真的還假的\n254731\t269117\t他說這個是人事跟護理部填的啊人事是跟護理部填的所以部長您願意跟辛苦的護理師說真的很不好意思這個表格可能沒有如果大家的薪水還是低我覺得我很難過也願意來努力\n273673\t301012\t那數據的呈現讓大家產生誤解這個我當然是可以跟大家抱歉但是你放心不管是你在任何一個職位不管你在醫院包括診所我們現在診所診所很多醫生說他四萬幾塊他也請不上來現在我們前幾天其實洪孟海委員也有質詢這個議題但是你始終沒有正面回答所以我稍微播放一下那一天你們的對談\n306681\t308102\t有聲音嗎就當天呢我看一下字幕卓院長是跟您講說平均看下來的話他覺得應該要很說明的清楚並且不是用這樣子的數字還有社會做一個假象的宣示所以卓院長表示這是一個假象的宣示那當天我有聽您的答詢\n334139\t351720\t您說其實你有多方的跟醫院管理端討論過所以這個數據是千真萬確也並不是醫院管理端要欺騙你的或是什麼但是你有沒有想過從剛剛這張表的統計方式比如說你的抽樣的樣本到底公不公允\n352321\t367614\t另外你有沒有跟這個基層的勞方代表來討論過然後你有沒有在多方查證您認為這個會不會是你未來還要再做這些統計的改善方法呢好一定我想第一個我們一定非常歡迎\n369615\t383369\t相關的醫事團體如果您覺得在衛護部可以幫大家做什麼事情都可以排時間我們來好好的來討論一下我們歡迎尤其是婦女的同仁婦女有好幾個團體意見有稍微有一點不一樣但是我們絕對都願意第二個這個數據的算法\n387393\t412935\t是從112年那個時候就用這種算法用總收入的一個概念在算如果引起大家的誤解我馬上要趙律師再去重新的請各業寫清楚就比如說您剛講的把這些津貼再分開不用給我們一個加總的數字就是給我們一個大概的數字但是有可能加到其他的津貼我未來是這樣建議啦不知道您採不採納\n416963\t433056\t我們希望我們希望朝著這個我們會請不是邀請我們我們是要拜託醫院一定要去呈現呈現那個真實的數據因為只有公開透明才是解決問題的最基本的一個\n433476\t457498\t那也希望您多方查證這邊當然也是幫護理師請願因為非常多人傳來他們真實的薪水單等等另外他們也在網路上寫了很多他們在護理工作上比如說被家屬質疑態度被病人呼來喚去等等等等但是最近也有一批另外的網軍說喊話的這些醫護人員其實是敵國的網軍可不可以幫他們講幾句話\n459119\t475260\t您知道現在的離職率是真的很高有院長說他是來不及簽離職單前幾天也有一位護理師說他在排隊簽離職單的時候等了一個小時我想問您會不會真的覺得現在這個離職潮是應該要解決的問題了\n477393\t497500\t我們要用科學的根據來看至於每一個離職的頭人我們都很心痛包括我以前在病房我們一起訓練的一個台大護理系很優秀的學生想說這個將來我們一定是在護理界花光花熱可是他工作了半年以後畢業以後工作半年竟然要離職\n499022\t521378\t我們是會非常心痛所以任何一個離職我們都非常重視不是整批那至於說要等一個小時我們也去問台北市護理師公衛他說那一天3月3號剛好是最最多人的時候因為有些要直登有些要入離職所以那個部分我們去我們可以來分析我們也問過台中市長其實\n522919\t540505\t都可能剛好有一坡比較起來因為每個時段不太一樣尤其在過年後會有離職坡可是在七八月又會有入來那去年的時候越到比一年以前我們增加的大概有留任的護理人員大概增加有3800個左右那其中有1200個是在醫院所以我們會會繼續努力絕對這樣不夠\n545768\t554542\t我們會繼續努力那你有想要這個去年年初就已經前一任行政長都答應的白板津貼今年應該就是可以發出來了吧\n555287\t574880\t我們現在跟護理界的一個長期的討論是說我們在那個三班護病比的獎勵你一定要去顧及到要給白班現在先這樣做所以白班等於其實是會領到三班當然這個因為公務預算也希望\n575720\t603076\t那個在預算的順利的通過啦三班護病筆的入法是賴總統的政見您會把這件事情也當成您在任以內的一件當務之急嗎我們當然是很這個當然是重要的任務而這個任務我們必須瞭解護理的心聲當然我們也會跟相關譬如說醫院的院方大家來談一下怎麼樣在一種\n604511\t623355\t所謂的無痛學習我們學習到無痛學習這個就是說能夠維繫病床的一個情況之下我常常在講我們醫療改革有三個第一個要提供給民眾最高的醫療品質第二個要給醫事人員最好的尊嚴第三個也要給醫療人員可以亂嘛\n623795\t644362\t可以順利的應轉我會再跟部長您追進度部長這個有許許多的官員在外面致詞甚至是賴總統呢在2月4號的世界癌症日上是直接說癌症篩檢行政費用刪了一成凍結三成請問您這件事情到底是不是事實嗯\n655887\t679775\t癌症這個部分當然是國健署國健署只要是凍結業務會其實對於推動各種因為我們那個衛福部我問你到底是不是一層跟三層這件事情到底是不是事實統三一層 凍三層這樣子所以還是會有影響看起來是會有影響\n681397\t704903\t我弄下一張給你看這個是你們新增了41億的癌症篩檢預算喔重要的科子目包含業務費獎勵助費是不是到現在其實你們也還沒有確定這筆新的大預算還沒有核實分配是不是這主要這一次來講在動3的部分就是在5.93億的那個部分\n708737\t723554\t所以不是一層跟三層嗎就是5.93%裡面的一層跟三層如果是整體的那一層跟三層影響就可能小一點所以不是癌症篩檢我們講的是A5會的推動所以不是癌症篩檢嗎\n725228\t727169\t所以兩位其實現在就是說2月4號賴總統講的那句話不屬實嘛因為2月5號我發了這個公文我也是詢問說到底是不是這樣子結果你們回的是說\n746118\t762947\t因為未獲得具體的結論故總預算稅出稅入三減凍結金額與立法院朝野協商達成共識後即可具體核算這是你們給我的公文耶但是你們怎麼可以在外面說這樣子的說法呢好我想我們在邊各個司署在邊內預算除了業務費當然還有實質上的付給付給那個\n775543\t792794\t跟醫療院說這是連在一起的啦 一定只要是那個當然就會影響到我是希望啦 來部長這張你前幾天也看過了我們衛生福利部已經增加了三千億的預算國民健康署已經增加了五\n794697\t810398\t55億的預算如果你們繼續在外面講根本還沒有算出來的比例我覺得真的是有失公允我希望各位官員包括可能我沒辦法勸告總統但是我真的希望各位官員出去說話的時候還是要有所本啊\n810999\t814423\t這個是我看我們第一輪我們只有減列15萬第二輪我們還讓你我們還提案讓你可以科目自行調整所以當你多拿了3000億多拿了55億然後你一直說這個做不到那個做不到我覺得情何以堪那\n829246\t848072\t部長我們其實去年3月也在這邊排了解凍案我回去算了一下我們總共排了22個解凍案您只要好好的報告其實我們這22個解凍案也都解凍了你們去年3月提出4月就已經解凍了如果你們今年還要復議然後還要因為這樣子去延宕的話又把\n850393\t868183\t這個解凍沒有癱瘓國政又到處出去宣講我覺得這樣真的是很不對的思維我覺得委員會因為我們大家都是未完長久的比較了解到人民健康需要的資源所以大家真的很感謝在委員會裡面大家給最大的幫忙可是在統三統\n869483\t883572\t動這個部分大概就會比較真的會影響到業務相當的執行比如說你少了你說好幾月以後才解凍可是我現在就要去買疫苗啦就要去跟人家簽約現在所有的人都知道我\n884432\t901800\t只好不敢不曉得當然你說3月1號3月會出動其實如果你不要提復一案這個洞穴不就有就現在就要排了嗎這非常是一個未知是對我們計畫到底要合出去合不合出去以及在那邊期待建設的的確是真的部長我最後真的啦具體建議啦\n904241\t917566\t如果你們真的沒有核算出核實的金額或者是比例的話也很希望你們出去在做一些演講公開的說明的時候真的可以說保守一點說實話我還是拜託我們委員能夠盡量讓我們因為\n920887\t937956\t國健署他增加的預算其實就是我們已經多年來在全民間在癌症篩檢其實你看我剛剛講第一輪我們減劣15萬你編了111億我們減劣15萬其實各朝野的委員是非常支持你們的看得出來啊 對吧111億我們減劣15萬\n943762\t968347\t對,我想在委員會裡面,我想值得大家給人民的健康很大的支持,這個真的非常感謝但是在桶山桶洞這個部分,仍然已經造成了現在的在業務上需要比較再要努力去調整我知道,其實大家有在聽前幾天的質詢,多了三千億、多了五十五億還是知愛難行,這個大家都聽懂了好,謝謝委員謝謝陳委員,謝謝部長\n","txt":"謝謝請求部長\n委員好部長好我們放第一張表第一張表是其實也是您親自傳給我的啦那當然我跟陳昭之委員也問的東西有點不太一樣我是很想知道說您會覺得這個表的統計方式是不是有欠改善因為有護理師跟我反映說這個年資一年啊到底是在這個醫院上班一年還是他當的護理師一年\n的年資因為他們認為如果你真的有問到這樣子的數據也許他之前已經職業非常久了那他可能在目前你調查的這家醫院一年所以才會到達這樣子的一般民眾覺得這樣子是有感的高薪啊我想知道您對於這個統計方法有沒有什麼看法比如說你的樣本數是怎麼取的\n好 包委員我昨天在看一下我傳給您的這個line是傳到這個但是其實我們好像沒有傳到一個網站那這個網站是在民國122年11月的時候衛福部請各縣市衛生局邀請全國的醫院去把他的收入因為那是要賺40多萬我跟你一樣我們都覺得護理人員非常辛苦他的薪水如果能夠再提升\n再提升再提升如果說今天真的是他們很滿意了我想也不會有人才流失的問題嘛大家會離開職場表示不夠嘛表示我們必須要大家再努力嘛我想這個部分是基本觀念所以我從來沒有講過一或乎\n現在的待遇是OK的所以您未來我想主席在這也知道我們都一直在努力幫醫療醫護的一個職場做得更好那其實裡面的報告112年以後那400多家包括醫學中心區醫院應該也有地區醫院有地區醫院\n其實那個大家正面思考,它的呈現是讓我們的護院員能夠,我要去台大申請比較好還是要買這個,我覺得買這個情緒比較高,福利比較好,我就去啊另外現在那個後來,以前大家不注意這個網站,現在注意這個網站以後,發現中部很多醫院就說我好像比人家低,所以他們就會提升\n所以是有見錢思齊的效果那如果說造成大家有些比較可能沒有領到那麼多應該見錢思齊這個好像我們必須要在公衛裡面是沒有絕對有領到這個錢的為什麼我們會質疑是因為你放這張表但是晚上在這些機關裡面上班的人並沒有人說他們有拿到這樣子的薪資啊\n所以他們才會另外在他們的這個官方的粉專做一些發文啊所以我想用健賢思齊這個好像有點難怪的比如說我們看這一張好了啦如果他是在私立醫院的最小值是42336而且這個值應該是總收入嘛包括就是說你在報課交評單的時候你年度你報課交評單的時候\n像我以前在台大當第五年組織醫師的時候我的基本薪是六萬多可是我有專業加給五萬多然後再加上績效獎金大概十八萬好了我出去外面我報稅是報十八萬我不是報六萬多所以不好意思那是一種看你是總收入\n還是看年資的 還是看那個薪資 基本薪資的一個概念那如果讓大家一起誤解 我在這邊還是要道歉啦因為這個data 本來我們就好意讓醫院自己去填那我有問過所有醫院的院長 我昨天也要求醫院協會的李輝鵬理事長我說拜託啊 你聽他查看嘛 說各醫院填的到底是真的還假的\n他說這個是人事跟護理部填的啊人事是跟護理部填的所以部長您願意跟辛苦的護理師說真的很不好意思這個表格可能沒有如果大家的薪水還是低我覺得我很難過也願意來努力\n那數據的呈現讓大家產生誤解這個我當然是可以跟大家抱歉但是你放心不管是你在任何一個職位不管你在醫院包括診所我們現在診所診所很多醫生說他四萬幾塊他也請不上來現在我們前幾天其實洪孟海委員也有質詢這個議題但是你始終沒有正面回答所以我稍微播放一下那一天你們的對談\n有聲音嗎就當天呢我看一下字幕卓院長是跟您講說平均看下來的話他覺得應該要很說明的清楚並且不是用這樣子的數字還有社會做一個假象的宣示所以卓院長表示這是一個假象的宣示那當天我有聽您的答詢\n您說其實你有多方的跟醫院管理端討論過所以這個數據是千真萬確也並不是醫院管理端要欺騙你的或是什麼但是你有沒有想過從剛剛這張表的統計方式比如說你的抽樣的樣本到底公不公允\n另外你有沒有跟這個基層的勞方代表來討論過然後你有沒有在多方查證您認為這個會不會是你未來還要再做這些統計的改善方法呢好一定我想第一個我們一定非常歡迎\n相關的醫事團體如果您覺得在衛護部可以幫大家做什麼事情都可以排時間我們來好好的來討論一下我們歡迎尤其是婦女的同仁婦女有好幾個團體意見有稍微有一點不一樣但是我們絕對都願意第二個這個數據的算法\n是從112年那個時候就用這種算法用總收入的一個概念在算如果引起大家的誤解我馬上要趙律師再去重新的請各業寫清楚就比如說您剛講的把這些津貼再分開不用給我們一個加總的數字就是給我們一個大概的數字但是有可能加到其他的津貼我未來是這樣建議啦不知道您採不採納\n我們希望我們希望朝著這個我們會請不是邀請我們我們是要拜託醫院一定要去呈現呈現那個真實的數據因為只有公開透明才是解決問題的最基本的一個\n那也希望您多方查證這邊當然也是幫護理師請願因為非常多人傳來他們真實的薪水單等等另外他們也在網路上寫了很多他們在護理工作上比如說被家屬質疑態度被病人呼來喚去等等等等但是最近也有一批另外的網軍說喊話的這些醫護人員其實是敵國的網軍可不可以幫他們講幾句話\n您知道現在的離職率是真的很高有院長說他是來不及簽離職單前幾天也有一位護理師說他在排隊簽離職單的時候等了一個小時我想問您會不會真的覺得現在這個離職潮是應該要解決的問題了\n我們要用科學的根據來看至於每一個離職的頭人我們都很心痛包括我以前在病房我們一起訓練的一個台大護理系很優秀的學生想說這個將來我們一定是在護理界花光花熱可是他工作了半年以後畢業以後工作半年竟然要離職\n我們是會非常心痛所以任何一個離職我們都非常重視不是整批那至於說要等一個小時我們也去問台北市護理師公衛他說那一天3月3號剛好是最最多人的時候因為有些要直登有些要入離職所以那個部分我們去我們可以來分析我們也問過台中市長其實\n都可能剛好有一坡比較起來因為每個時段不太一樣尤其在過年後會有離職坡可是在七八月又會有入來那去年的時候越到比一年以前我們增加的大概有留任的護理人員大概增加有3800個左右那其中有1200個是在醫院所以我們會會繼續努力絕對這樣不夠\n我們會繼續努力那你有想要這個去年年初就已經前一任行政長都答應的白板津貼今年應該就是可以發出來了吧\n我們現在跟護理界的一個長期的討論是說我們在那個三班護病比的獎勵你一定要去顧及到要給白班現在先這樣做所以白班等於其實是會領到三班當然這個因為公務預算也希望\n那個在預算的順利的通過啦三班護病筆的入法是賴總統的政見您會把這件事情也當成您在任以內的一件當務之急嗎我們當然是很這個當然是重要的任務而這個任務我們必須瞭解護理的心聲當然我們也會跟相關譬如說醫院的院方大家來談一下怎麼樣在一種\n所謂的無痛學習我們學習到無痛學習這個就是說能夠維繫病床的一個情況之下我常常在講我們醫療改革有三個第一個要提供給民眾最高的醫療品質第二個要給醫事人員最好的尊嚴第三個也要給醫療人員可以亂嘛\n可以順利的應轉我會再跟部長您追進度部長這個有許許多的官員在外面致詞甚至是賴總統呢在2月4號的世界癌症日上是直接說癌症篩檢行政費用刪了一成凍結三成請問您這件事情到底是不是事實嗯\n癌症這個部分當然是國健署國健署只要是凍結業務會其實對於推動各種因為我們那個衛福部我問你到底是不是一層跟三層這件事情到底是不是事實統三一層 凍三層這樣子所以還是會有影響看起來是會有影響\n我弄下一張給你看這個是你們新增了41億的癌症篩檢預算喔重要的科子目包含業務費獎勵助費是不是到現在其實你們也還沒有確定這筆新的大預算還沒有核實分配是不是這主要這一次來講在動3的部分就是在5.93億的那個部分\n所以不是一層跟三層嗎就是5.93%裡面的一層跟三層如果是整體的那一層跟三層影響就可能小一點所以不是癌症篩檢我們講的是A5會的推動所以不是癌症篩檢嗎\n所以兩位其實現在就是說2月4號賴總統講的那句話不屬實嘛因為2月5號我發了這個公文我也是詢問說到底是不是這樣子結果你們回的是說\n因為未獲得具體的結論故總預算稅出稅入三減凍結金額與立法院朝野協商達成共識後即可具體核算這是你們給我的公文耶但是你們怎麼可以在外面說這樣子的說法呢好我想我們在邊各個司署在邊內預算除了業務費當然還有實質上的付給付給那個\n跟醫療院說這是連在一起的啦 一定只要是那個當然就會影響到我是希望啦 來部長這張你前幾天也看過了我們衛生福利部已經增加了三千億的預算國民健康署已經增加了五\n55億的預算如果你們繼續在外面講根本還沒有算出來的比例我覺得真的是有失公允我希望各位官員包括可能我沒辦法勸告總統但是我真的希望各位官員出去說話的時候還是要有所本啊\n這個是我看我們第一輪我們只有減列15萬第二輪我們還讓你我們還提案讓你可以科目自行調整所以當你多拿了3000億多拿了55億然後你一直說這個做不到那個做不到我覺得情何以堪那\n部長我們其實去年3月也在這邊排了解凍案我回去算了一下我們總共排了22個解凍案您只要好好的報告其實我們這22個解凍案也都解凍了你們去年3月提出4月就已經解凍了如果你們今年還要復議然後還要因為這樣子去延宕的話又把\n這個解凍沒有癱瘓國政又到處出去宣講我覺得這樣真的是很不對的思維我覺得委員會因為我們大家都是未完長久的比較了解到人民健康需要的資源所以大家真的很感謝在委員會裡面大家給最大的幫忙可是在統三統\n動這個部分大概就會比較真的會影響到業務相當的執行比如說你少了你說好幾月以後才解凍可是我現在就要去買疫苗啦就要去跟人家簽約現在所有的人都知道我\n只好不敢不曉得當然你說3月1號3月會出動其實如果你不要提復一案這個洞穴不就有就現在就要排了嗎這非常是一個未知是對我們計畫到底要合出去合不合出去以及在那邊期待建設的的確是真的部長我最後真的啦具體建議啦\n如果你們真的沒有核算出核實的金額或者是比例的話也很希望你們出去在做一些演講公開的說明的時候真的可以說保守一點說實話我還是拜託我們委員能夠盡量讓我們因為\n國健署他增加的預算其實就是我們已經多年來在全民間在癌症篩檢其實你看我剛剛講第一輪我們減劣15萬你編了111億我們減劣15萬其實各朝野的委員是非常支持你們的看得出來啊 對吧111億我們減劣15萬\n對,我想在委員會裡面,我想值得大家給人民的健康很大的支持,這個真的非常感謝但是在桶山桶洞這個部分,仍然已經造成了現在的在業務上需要比較再要努力去調整我知道,其實大家有在聽前幾天的質詢,多了三千億、多了五十五億還是知愛難行,這個大家都聽懂了好,謝謝委員謝謝陳委員,謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.807 --> 00:06.988\n謝謝請求部長\n\n00:13.081 --> 00:40.810\n委員好部長好我們放第一張表第一張表是其實也是您親自傳給我的啦那當然我跟陳昭之委員也問的東西有點不太一樣我是很想知道說您會覺得這個表的統計方式是不是有欠改善因為有護理師跟我反映說這個年資一年啊到底是在這個醫院上班一年還是他當的護理師一年\n\n00:42.065 --> 01:03.864\n的年資因為他們認為如果你真的有問到這樣子的數據也許他之前已經職業非常久了那他可能在目前你調查的這家醫院一年所以才會到達這樣子的一般民眾覺得這樣子是有感的高薪啊我想知道您對於這個統計方法有沒有什麼看法比如說你的樣本數是怎麼取的\n\n01:04.813 --> 01:33.190\n好包委員我昨天在看一下我傳給您的這個line是傳到這個但是其實我們好像沒有傳到一個網站那這個網站是在民國122年11月的時候衛福部請各縣市衛生局邀請全國的醫院去把他的收入因為那是要賺40多萬我跟你一樣我們都覺得護理人員非常辛苦他的薪水如果能夠再提升\n\n01:34.031 --> 01:49.468\n再提升再提升如果說今天真的是他們很滿意了我想也不會有人才流失的問題嘛大家會離開職場表示不夠嘛表示我們必須要大家再努力嘛我想這個部分是基本觀念所以我從來沒有講過一或乎\n\n01:52.553 --> 02:11.289\n現在的待遇是OK的所以您未來我想主席在這也知道我們都一直在努力幫醫療醫護的一個職場做得更好那其實裡面的報告112年以後那400多家包括醫學中心區醫院應該也有地區醫院有地區醫院\n\n02:12.089 --> 02:33.270\n其實那個大家正面思考,它的呈現是讓我們的護院員能夠,我要去台大申請比較好還是要買這個,我覺得買這個情緒比較高,福利比較好,我就去啊另外現在那個後來,以前大家不注意這個網站,現在注意這個網站以後,發現中部很多醫院就說我好像比人家低,所以他們就會提升\n\n02:34.631 --> 02:45.293\n所以是有見錢思齊的效果那如果說造成大家有些比較可能沒有領到那麼多應該見錢思齊這個好像我們必須要在公衛裡面是沒有絕對有領到這個錢的為什麼我們會質疑是因為你放這張表但是晚上在這些機關裡面上班的人並沒有人說他們有拿到這樣子的薪資啊\n\n03:03.837 --> 03:25.169\n所以他們才會另外在他們的這個官方的粉專做一些發文啊所以我想用健賢思齊這個好像有點難怪的比如說我們看這一張好了啦如果他是在私立醫院的最小值是42336而且這個值應該是總收入嘛包括就是說你在報課交評單的時候你年度你報課交評單的時候\n\n03:28.567 --> 03:49.414\n像我以前在台大當第五年組織醫師的時候我的基本薪是六萬多可是我有專業加給五萬多然後再加上績效獎金大概十八萬好了我出去外面我報稅是報十八萬我不是報六萬多所以不好意思那是一種看你是總收入\n\n03:50.254 --> 04:13.851\n還是看年資的還是看那個薪資基本薪資的一個概念那如果讓大家一起誤解我在這邊還是要道歉啦因為這個data本來我們就好意讓醫院自己去填那我有問過所有醫院的院長我昨天也要求醫院協會的李輝鵬理事長我說拜託啊你聽他查看嘛說各醫院填的到底是真的還假的\n\n04:14.731 --> 04:29.117\n他說這個是人事跟護理部填的啊人事是跟護理部填的所以部長您願意跟辛苦的護理師說真的很不好意思這個表格可能沒有如果大家的薪水還是低我覺得我很難過也願意來努力\n\n04:33.673 --> 05:01.012\n那數據的呈現讓大家產生誤解這個我當然是可以跟大家抱歉但是你放心不管是你在任何一個職位不管你在醫院包括診所我們現在診所診所很多醫生說他四萬幾塊他也請不上來現在我們前幾天其實洪孟海委員也有質詢這個議題但是你始終沒有正面回答所以我稍微播放一下那一天你們的對談\n\n05:06.681 --> 05:08.102\n有聲音嗎就當天呢我看一下字幕卓院長是跟您講說平均看下來的話他覺得應該要很說明的清楚並且不是用這樣子的數字還有社會做一個假象的宣示所以卓院長表示這是一個假象的宣示那當天我有聽您的答詢\n\n05:34.139 --> 05:51.720\n您說其實你有多方的跟醫院管理端討論過所以這個數據是千真萬確也並不是醫院管理端要欺騙你的或是什麼但是你有沒有想過從剛剛這張表的統計方式比如說你的抽樣的樣本到底公不公允\n\n05:52.321 --> 06:07.614\n另外你有沒有跟這個基層的勞方代表來討論過然後你有沒有在多方查證您認為這個會不會是你未來還要再做這些統計的改善方法呢好一定我想第一個我們一定非常歡迎\n\n06:09.615 --> 06:23.369\n相關的醫事團體如果您覺得在衛護部可以幫大家做什麼事情都可以排時間我們來好好的來討論一下我們歡迎尤其是婦女的同仁婦女有好幾個團體意見有稍微有一點不一樣但是我們絕對都願意第二個這個數據的算法\n\n06:27.393 --> 06:52.935\n是從112年那個時候就用這種算法用總收入的一個概念在算如果引起大家的誤解我馬上要趙律師再去重新的請各業寫清楚就比如說您剛講的把這些津貼再分開不用給我們一個加總的數字就是給我們一個大概的數字但是有可能加到其他的津貼我未來是這樣建議啦不知道您採不採納\n\n06:56.963 --> 07:13.056\n我們希望我們希望朝著這個我們會請不是邀請我們我們是要拜託醫院一定要去呈現呈現那個真實的數據因為只有公開透明才是解決問題的最基本的一個\n\n07:13.476 --> 07:37.498\n那也希望您多方查證這邊當然也是幫護理師請願因為非常多人傳來他們真實的薪水單等等另外他們也在網路上寫了很多他們在護理工作上比如說被家屬質疑態度被病人呼來喚去等等等等但是最近也有一批另外的網軍說喊話的這些醫護人員其實是敵國的網軍可不可以幫他們講幾句話\n\n07:39.119 --> 07:55.260\n您知道現在的離職率是真的很高有院長說他是來不及簽離職單前幾天也有一位護理師說他在排隊簽離職單的時候等了一個小時我想問您會不會真的覺得現在這個離職潮是應該要解決的問題了\n\n07:57.393 --> 08:17.500\n我們要用科學的根據來看至於每一個離職的頭人我們都很心痛包括我以前在病房我們一起訓練的一個台大護理系很優秀的學生想說這個將來我們一定是在護理界花光花熱可是他工作了半年以後畢業以後工作半年竟然要離職\n\n08:19.022 --> 08:41.378\n我們是會非常心痛所以任何一個離職我們都非常重視不是整批那至於說要等一個小時我們也去問台北市護理師公衛他說那一天3月3號剛好是最最多人的時候因為有些要直登有些要入離職所以那個部分我們去我們可以來分析我們也問過台中市長其實\n\n08:42.919 --> 09:00.505\n都可能剛好有一坡比較起來因為每個時段不太一樣尤其在過年後會有離職坡可是在七八月又會有入來那去年的時候越到比一年以前我們增加的大概有留任的護理人員大概增加有3800個左右那其中有1200個是在醫院所以我們會會繼續努力絕對這樣不夠\n\n09:05.768 --> 09:14.542\n我們會繼續努力那你有想要這個去年年初就已經前一任行政長都答應的白板津貼今年應該就是可以發出來了吧\n\n09:15.287 --> 09:34.880\n我們現在跟護理界的一個長期的討論是說我們在那個三班護病比的獎勵你一定要去顧及到要給白班現在先這樣做所以白班等於其實是會領到三班當然這個因為公務預算也希望\n\n09:35.720 --> 10:03.076\n那個在預算的順利的通過啦三班護病筆的入法是賴總統的政見您會把這件事情也當成您在任以內的一件當務之急嗎我們當然是很這個當然是重要的任務而這個任務我們必須瞭解護理的心聲當然我們也會跟相關譬如說醫院的院方大家來談一下怎麼樣在一種\n\n10:04.511 --> 10:23.355\n所謂的無痛學習我們學習到無痛學習這個就是說能夠維繫病床的一個情況之下我常常在講我們醫療改革有三個第一個要提供給民眾最高的醫療品質第二個要給醫事人員最好的尊嚴第三個也要給醫療人員可以亂嘛\n\n10:23.795 --> 10:44.362\n可以順利的應轉我會再跟部長您追進度部長這個有許許多的官員在外面致詞甚至是賴總統呢在2月4號的世界癌症日上是直接說癌症篩檢行政費用刪了一成凍結三成請問您這件事情到底是不是事實嗯\n\n10:55.887 --> 11:19.775\n癌症這個部分當然是國健署國健署只要是凍結業務會其實對於推動各種因為我們那個衛福部我問你到底是不是一層跟三層這件事情到底是不是事實統三一層凍三層這樣子所以還是會有影響看起來是會有影響\n\n11:21.397 --> 11:44.903\n我弄下一張給你看這個是你們新增了41億的癌症篩檢預算喔重要的科子目包含業務費獎勵助費是不是到現在其實你們也還沒有確定這筆新的大預算還沒有核實分配是不是這主要這一次來講在動3的部分就是在5.93億的那個部分\n\n11:48.737 --> 12:03.554\n所以不是一層跟三層嗎就是5.93%裡面的一層跟三層如果是整體的那一層跟三層影響就可能小一點所以不是癌症篩檢我們講的是A5會的推動所以不是癌症篩檢嗎\n\n12:05.228 --> 12:07.169\n所以兩位其實現在就是說2月4號賴總統講的那句話不屬實嘛因為2月5號我發了這個公文我也是詢問說到底是不是這樣子結果你們回的是說\n\n12:26.118 --> 12:42.947\n因為未獲得具體的結論故總預算稅出稅入三減凍結金額與立法院朝野協商達成共識後即可具體核算這是你們給我的公文耶但是你們怎麼可以在外面說這樣子的說法呢好我想我們在邊各個司署在邊內預算除了業務費當然還有實質上的付給付給那個\n\n12:55.543 --> 13:12.794\n跟醫療院說這是連在一起的啦一定只要是那個當然就會影響到我是希望啦來部長這張你前幾天也看過了我們衛生福利部已經增加了三千億的預算國民健康署已經增加了五\n\n13:14.697 --> 13:30.398\n55億的預算如果你們繼續在外面講根本還沒有算出來的比例我覺得真的是有失公允我希望各位官員包括可能我沒辦法勸告總統但是我真的希望各位官員出去說話的時候還是要有所本啊\n\n13:30.999 --> 13:34.423\n這個是我看我們第一輪我們只有減列15萬第二輪我們還讓你我們還提案讓你可以科目自行調整所以當你多拿了3000億多拿了55億然後你一直說這個做不到那個做不到我覺得情何以堪那\n\n13:49.246 --> 14:08.072\n部長我們其實去年3月也在這邊排了解凍案我回去算了一下我們總共排了22個解凍案您只要好好的報告其實我們這22個解凍案也都解凍了你們去年3月提出4月就已經解凍了如果你們今年還要復議然後還要因為這樣子去延宕的話又把\n\n14:10.393 --> 14:28.183\n這個解凍沒有癱瘓國政又到處出去宣講我覺得這樣真的是很不對的思維我覺得委員會因為我們大家都是未完長久的比較了解到人民健康需要的資源所以大家真的很感謝在委員會裡面大家給最大的幫忙可是在統三統\n\n14:29.483 --> 14:43.572\n動這個部分大概就會比較真的會影響到業務相當的執行比如說你少了你說好幾月以後才解凍可是我現在就要去買疫苗啦就要去跟人家簽約現在所有的人都知道我\n\n14:44.432 --> 15:01.800\n只好不敢不曉得當然你說3月1號3月會出動其實如果你不要提復一案這個洞穴不就有就現在就要排了嗎這非常是一個未知是對我們計畫到底要合出去合不合出去以及在那邊期待建設的的確是真的部長我最後真的啦具體建議啦\n\n15:04.241 --> 15:17.566\n如果你們真的沒有核算出核實的金額或者是比例的話也很希望你們出去在做一些演講公開的說明的時候真的可以說保守一點說實話我還是拜託我們委員能夠盡量讓我們因為\n\n15:20.887 --> 15:37.956\n國健署他增加的預算其實就是我們已經多年來在全民間在癌症篩檢其實你看我剛剛講第一輪我們減劣15萬你編了111億我們減劣15萬其實各朝野的委員是非常支持你們的看得出來啊對吧111億我們減劣15萬\n\n15:43.762 --> 16:08.347\n對,我想在委員會裡面,我想值得大家給人民的健康很大的支持,這個真的非常感謝但是在桶山桶洞這個部分,仍然已經造成了現在的在業務上需要比較再要努力去調整我知道,其實大家有在聽前幾天的質詢,多了三千億、多了五十五億還是知愛難行,這個大家都聽懂了好,謝謝委員謝謝陳委員,謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.807,"end":6.988,"text":"謝謝請求部長"},{"start":13.081,"end":40.81,"text":"委員好部長好我們放第一張表第一張表是其實也是您親自傳給我的啦那當然我跟陳昭之委員也問的東西有點不太一樣我是很想知道說您會覺得這個表的統計方式是不是有欠改善因為有護理師跟我反映說這個年資一年啊到底是在這個醫院上班一年還是他當的護理師一年"},{"start":42.065,"end":63.864,"text":"的年資因為他們認為如果你真的有問到這樣子的數據也許他之前已經職業非常久了那他可能在目前你調查的這家醫院一年所以才會到達這樣子的一般民眾覺得這樣子是有感的高薪啊我想知道您對於這個統計方法有沒有什麼看法比如說你的樣本數是怎麼取的"},{"start":64.813,"end":93.19,"text":"好 包委員我昨天在看一下我傳給您的這個line是傳到這個但是其實我們好像沒有傳到一個網站那這個網站是在民國122年11月的時候衛福部請各縣市衛生局邀請全國的醫院去把他的收入因為那是要賺40多萬我跟你一樣我們都覺得護理人員非常辛苦他的薪水如果能夠再提升"},{"start":94.031,"end":109.468,"text":"再提升再提升如果說今天真的是他們很滿意了我想也不會有人才流失的問題嘛大家會離開職場表示不夠嘛表示我們必須要大家再努力嘛我想這個部分是基本觀念所以我從來沒有講過一或乎"},{"start":112.553,"end":131.289,"text":"現在的待遇是OK的所以您未來我想主席在這也知道我們都一直在努力幫醫療醫護的一個職場做得更好那其實裡面的報告112年以後那400多家包括醫學中心區醫院應該也有地區醫院有地區醫院"},{"start":132.089,"end":153.27,"text":"其實那個大家正面思考,它的呈現是讓我們的護院員能夠,我要去台大申請比較好還是要買這個,我覺得買這個情緒比較高,福利比較好,我就去啊另外現在那個後來,以前大家不注意這個網站,現在注意這個網站以後,發現中部很多醫院就說我好像比人家低,所以他們就會提升"},{"start":154.631,"end":165.293,"text":"所以是有見錢思齊的效果那如果說造成大家有些比較可能沒有領到那麼多應該見錢思齊這個好像我們必須要在公衛裡面是沒有絕對有領到這個錢的為什麼我們會質疑是因為你放這張表但是晚上在這些機關裡面上班的人並沒有人說他們有拿到這樣子的薪資啊"},{"start":183.837,"end":205.169,"text":"所以他們才會另外在他們的這個官方的粉專做一些發文啊所以我想用健賢思齊這個好像有點難怪的比如說我們看這一張好了啦如果他是在私立醫院的最小值是42336而且這個值應該是總收入嘛包括就是說你在報課交評單的時候你年度你報課交評單的時候"},{"start":208.567,"end":229.414,"text":"像我以前在台大當第五年組織醫師的時候我的基本薪是六萬多可是我有專業加給五萬多然後再加上績效獎金大概十八萬好了我出去外面我報稅是報十八萬我不是報六萬多所以不好意思那是一種看你是總收入"},{"start":230.254,"end":253.851,"text":"還是看年資的 還是看那個薪資 基本薪資的一個概念那如果讓大家一起誤解 我在這邊還是要道歉啦因為這個data 本來我們就好意讓醫院自己去填那我有問過所有醫院的院長 我昨天也要求醫院協會的李輝鵬理事長我說拜託啊 你聽他查看嘛 說各醫院填的到底是真的還假的"},{"start":254.731,"end":269.117,"text":"他說這個是人事跟護理部填的啊人事是跟護理部填的所以部長您願意跟辛苦的護理師說真的很不好意思這個表格可能沒有如果大家的薪水還是低我覺得我很難過也願意來努力"},{"start":273.673,"end":301.012,"text":"那數據的呈現讓大家產生誤解這個我當然是可以跟大家抱歉但是你放心不管是你在任何一個職位不管你在醫院包括診所我們現在診所診所很多醫生說他四萬幾塊他也請不上來現在我們前幾天其實洪孟海委員也有質詢這個議題但是你始終沒有正面回答所以我稍微播放一下那一天你們的對談"},{"start":306.681,"end":308.102,"text":"有聲音嗎就當天呢我看一下字幕卓院長是跟您講說平均看下來的話他覺得應該要很說明的清楚並且不是用這樣子的數字還有社會做一個假象的宣示所以卓院長表示這是一個假象的宣示那當天我有聽您的答詢"},{"start":334.139,"end":351.72,"text":"您說其實你有多方的跟醫院管理端討論過所以這個數據是千真萬確也並不是醫院管理端要欺騙你的或是什麼但是你有沒有想過從剛剛這張表的統計方式比如說你的抽樣的樣本到底公不公允"},{"start":352.321,"end":367.614,"text":"另外你有沒有跟這個基層的勞方代表來討論過然後你有沒有在多方查證您認為這個會不會是你未來還要再做這些統計的改善方法呢好一定我想第一個我們一定非常歡迎"},{"start":369.615,"end":383.369,"text":"相關的醫事團體如果您覺得在衛護部可以幫大家做什麼事情都可以排時間我們來好好的來討論一下我們歡迎尤其是婦女的同仁婦女有好幾個團體意見有稍微有一點不一樣但是我們絕對都願意第二個這個數據的算法"},{"start":387.393,"end":412.935,"text":"是從112年那個時候就用這種算法用總收入的一個概念在算如果引起大家的誤解我馬上要趙律師再去重新的請各業寫清楚就比如說您剛講的把這些津貼再分開不用給我們一個加總的數字就是給我們一個大概的數字但是有可能加到其他的津貼我未來是這樣建議啦不知道您採不採納"},{"start":416.963,"end":433.056,"text":"我們希望我們希望朝著這個我們會請不是邀請我們我們是要拜託醫院一定要去呈現呈現那個真實的數據因為只有公開透明才是解決問題的最基本的一個"},{"start":433.476,"end":457.498,"text":"那也希望您多方查證這邊當然也是幫護理師請願因為非常多人傳來他們真實的薪水單等等另外他們也在網路上寫了很多他們在護理工作上比如說被家屬質疑態度被病人呼來喚去等等等等但是最近也有一批另外的網軍說喊話的這些醫護人員其實是敵國的網軍可不可以幫他們講幾句話"},{"start":459.119,"end":475.26,"text":"您知道現在的離職率是真的很高有院長說他是來不及簽離職單前幾天也有一位護理師說他在排隊簽離職單的時候等了一個小時我想問您會不會真的覺得現在這個離職潮是應該要解決的問題了"},{"start":477.393,"end":497.5,"text":"我們要用科學的根據來看至於每一個離職的頭人我們都很心痛包括我以前在病房我們一起訓練的一個台大護理系很優秀的學生想說這個將來我們一定是在護理界花光花熱可是他工作了半年以後畢業以後工作半年竟然要離職"},{"start":499.022,"end":521.378,"text":"我們是會非常心痛所以任何一個離職我們都非常重視不是整批那至於說要等一個小時我們也去問台北市護理師公衛他說那一天3月3號剛好是最最多人的時候因為有些要直登有些要入離職所以那個部分我們去我們可以來分析我們也問過台中市長其實"},{"start":522.919,"end":540.505,"text":"都可能剛好有一坡比較起來因為每個時段不太一樣尤其在過年後會有離職坡可是在七八月又會有入來那去年的時候越到比一年以前我們增加的大概有留任的護理人員大概增加有3800個左右那其中有1200個是在醫院所以我們會會繼續努力絕對這樣不夠"},{"start":545.768,"end":554.542,"text":"我們會繼續努力那你有想要這個去年年初就已經前一任行政長都答應的白板津貼今年應該就是可以發出來了吧"},{"start":555.287,"end":574.88,"text":"我們現在跟護理界的一個長期的討論是說我們在那個三班護病比的獎勵你一定要去顧及到要給白班現在先這樣做所以白班等於其實是會領到三班當然這個因為公務預算也希望"},{"start":575.72,"end":603.076,"text":"那個在預算的順利的通過啦三班護病筆的入法是賴總統的政見您會把這件事情也當成您在任以內的一件當務之急嗎我們當然是很這個當然是重要的任務而這個任務我們必須瞭解護理的心聲當然我們也會跟相關譬如說醫院的院方大家來談一下怎麼樣在一種"},{"start":604.511,"end":623.355,"text":"所謂的無痛學習我們學習到無痛學習這個就是說能夠維繫病床的一個情況之下我常常在講我們醫療改革有三個第一個要提供給民眾最高的醫療品質第二個要給醫事人員最好的尊嚴第三個也要給醫療人員可以亂嘛"},{"start":623.795,"end":644.362,"text":"可以順利的應轉我會再跟部長您追進度部長這個有許許多的官員在外面致詞甚至是賴總統呢在2月4號的世界癌症日上是直接說癌症篩檢行政費用刪了一成凍結三成請問您這件事情到底是不是事實嗯"},{"start":655.887,"end":679.775,"text":"癌症這個部分當然是國健署國健署只要是凍結業務會其實對於推動各種因為我們那個衛福部我問你到底是不是一層跟三層這件事情到底是不是事實統三一層 凍三層這樣子所以還是會有影響看起來是會有影響"},{"start":681.397,"end":704.903,"text":"我弄下一張給你看這個是你們新增了41億的癌症篩檢預算喔重要的科子目包含業務費獎勵助費是不是到現在其實你們也還沒有確定這筆新的大預算還沒有核實分配是不是這主要這一次來講在動3的部分就是在5.93億的那個部分"},{"start":708.737,"end":723.554,"text":"所以不是一層跟三層嗎就是5.93%裡面的一層跟三層如果是整體的那一層跟三層影響就可能小一點所以不是癌症篩檢我們講的是A5會的推動所以不是癌症篩檢嗎"},{"start":725.228,"end":727.169,"text":"所以兩位其實現在就是說2月4號賴總統講的那句話不屬實嘛因為2月5號我發了這個公文我也是詢問說到底是不是這樣子結果你們回的是說"},{"start":746.118,"end":762.947,"text":"因為未獲得具體的結論故總預算稅出稅入三減凍結金額與立法院朝野協商達成共識後即可具體核算這是你們給我的公文耶但是你們怎麼可以在外面說這樣子的說法呢好我想我們在邊各個司署在邊內預算除了業務費當然還有實質上的付給付給那個"},{"start":775.543,"end":792.794,"text":"跟醫療院說這是連在一起的啦 一定只要是那個當然就會影響到我是希望啦 來部長這張你前幾天也看過了我們衛生福利部已經增加了三千億的預算國民健康署已經增加了五"},{"start":794.697,"end":810.398,"text":"55億的預算如果你們繼續在外面講根本還沒有算出來的比例我覺得真的是有失公允我希望各位官員包括可能我沒辦法勸告總統但是我真的希望各位官員出去說話的時候還是要有所本啊"},{"start":810.999,"end":814.423,"text":"這個是我看我們第一輪我們只有減列15萬第二輪我們還讓你我們還提案讓你可以科目自行調整所以當你多拿了3000億多拿了55億然後你一直說這個做不到那個做不到我覺得情何以堪那"},{"start":829.246,"end":848.072,"text":"部長我們其實去年3月也在這邊排了解凍案我回去算了一下我們總共排了22個解凍案您只要好好的報告其實我們這22個解凍案也都解凍了你們去年3月提出4月就已經解凍了如果你們今年還要復議然後還要因為這樣子去延宕的話又把"},{"start":850.393,"end":868.183,"text":"這個解凍沒有癱瘓國政又到處出去宣講我覺得這樣真的是很不對的思維我覺得委員會因為我們大家都是未完長久的比較了解到人民健康需要的資源所以大家真的很感謝在委員會裡面大家給最大的幫忙可是在統三統"},{"start":869.483,"end":883.572,"text":"動這個部分大概就會比較真的會影響到業務相當的執行比如說你少了你說好幾月以後才解凍可是我現在就要去買疫苗啦就要去跟人家簽約現在所有的人都知道我"},{"start":884.432,"end":901.8,"text":"只好不敢不曉得當然你說3月1號3月會出動其實如果你不要提復一案這個洞穴不就有就現在就要排了嗎這非常是一個未知是對我們計畫到底要合出去合不合出去以及在那邊期待建設的的確是真的部長我最後真的啦具體建議啦"},{"start":904.241,"end":917.566,"text":"如果你們真的沒有核算出核實的金額或者是比例的話也很希望你們出去在做一些演講公開的說明的時候真的可以說保守一點說實話我還是拜託我們委員能夠盡量讓我們因為"},{"start":920.887,"end":937.956,"text":"國健署他增加的預算其實就是我們已經多年來在全民間在癌症篩檢其實你看我剛剛講第一輪我們減劣15萬你編了111億我們減劣15萬其實各朝野的委員是非常支持你們的看得出來啊 對吧111億我們減劣15萬"},{"start":943.762,"end":968.347,"text":"對,我想在委員會裡面,我想值得大家給人民的健康很大的支持,這個真的非常感謝但是在桶山桶洞這個部分,仍然已經造成了現在的在業務上需要比較再要努力去調整我知道,其實大家有在聽前幾天的質詢,多了三千億、多了五十五億還是知愛難行,這個大家都聽懂了好,謝謝委員謝謝陳委員,謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":255,"blocks":[["陳委員菁徽：（9時40分）謝謝，請邱部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["陳委員菁徽：部長好。第一張表其實也是您親自傳給我的，我跟陳昭姿委員問的東西有點不太一樣，我真的很想知道，您會不會覺得這個表的統計方式有欠改善？因為有護理師跟我反映，這個年資1年到底是在這個醫院上班1年還是他當了護理師1年的年資？因為他們認為如果你真的有問到這樣子的數據，也許他之前已經執業非常久了，他可能在目前你調查的這家醫院1年，所以才會到達這樣子一般民眾覺得有感的高薪。我想知道您對於這個統計方法有沒有什麼看法？比如說你的樣本數是怎麼取的？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，我昨天再看一下我傳給你的LINE，是傳到這個，但我好像沒有傳到一個網站，那個網站是民國112年11月衛福部請各縣市衛生局邀請全國的醫院去把它的收入……因為那不是要展示有多高，我跟你一樣，我們都覺得護理人員非常辛苦，他的薪水如果能夠再提升、再提升、再提升！如果今天他們真的是很滿意，我想也不會有人才流失的問題，大家會離開職場，表示我們必須要再努力，我想這個部分是基本觀念，所以我從來沒有講過醫或護現在的待遇是OK的，我都覺得需要提升……"],["陳委員菁徽：所以您未來……"],["邱部長泰源：我想主席在這裡也知道，我們都一直在努力讓醫護的職場更好。其實依據報告，112年以後四百多家，包括醫學中心、區域醫院，應該也有地區醫院，其實大家正面思考，它的呈現是讓我們的護理人員能夠了解自己要去臺大申請比較好還是要去馬偕，我覺得馬偕薪水比較高、福利比較好，我就去啊。以前大家不注意這個網站，現在注意這個網站以後發現，中部有很多醫院就發現我好像比人家低，所以他們就會提升，所以是有見賢思齊的效果，如果造成大家……有些可能沒有領到麼多的收入……"],["陳委員菁徽：見賢思齊這個……"],["邱部長泰源：讓他們誤解，我們必須要在這邊……"],["陳委員菁徽：工會裡面沒有人覺得自己有領到這個錢。"],["邱部長泰源：我們必須要在這邊道歉，因為它呈現的就是一個平均中位數。"],["陳委員菁徽：為什麼我們會質疑？是因為你放這張表，但是晚上在這些機關裡面上班的人並沒有拿到這樣子的薪資，所以他們才會另外在官方粉專發文。我想這個用「見賢思齊」好像有點怪怪的。"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，比如我們看這一張好了，如果他是在私立醫院，最小值是42,336，而且這個值應該是總收入，就是年度扣繳憑單，像我以前在臺大當第5年主治醫師的時候，我的基本薪是六萬多，可是我有專業加給五萬多，然後再加上績效獎金，大概18萬好了啦，其實我出去外面報稅是報18萬，我不是報六萬多。所以不好意思，那要看是依總收入、年資，還是看基本薪資的一個概念，如果讓大家引起誤解，我在這邊還是要道歉，因為這個data本來我們是好意讓醫院自己去填。我有問過所有醫院的院長，我昨天也要求醫院協會的李飛鵬理事長，拜託他查查看各醫院填的到底是真的還假的，他說這個是人事室跟護理部填的！"],["陳委員菁徽：所以部長，您願意跟辛苦的護理師說真的很不好意思，這個表格可能沒有……"],["邱部長泰源：如果大家的薪水還是低，我覺得我很難過，也願意來努力，而數據的呈現讓大家產生誤解，這個我當然可以跟大家說抱歉，但是請大家放心，不管你在任何一個職位，包括在診所，現在很多診所醫生也跟我說，薪水就算有四萬多塊，他也是都請不到人。"],["陳委員菁徽：我懂。前幾天其實洪孟楷委員也有質詢這個議題，但是你始終沒有正面回答，所以我稍微播放一下那一天你們的對談。有聽到聲音嗎？我看了一下字幕，當天卓院長是跟您說，平均看下來的話，他覺得應該說明清楚，並且不是用這樣子的數字來向社會做一個假象的宣示，所以卓院長表示，這是一個假象的宣示；當天我有聽到您的答詢，您說其實您有多方的跟醫院管理端討論過，所以這個數據是千真萬確，並不是醫院管理端要欺騙你或是什麼的，但是你有沒有想過，剛剛這張表的統計方式，比如說你的抽樣樣本到底公不公允？另外，你有沒有跟基層勞方代表討論過？然後你有沒有再多方查證，您認為這會不會是未來還要再做這些統計時一個改善的方法呢？"],["邱部長泰源：一定，第一個，我們一定非常歡迎相關的醫事團體，如果您覺得衛福部可以幫大家做什麼事情，都可以排時間，我們好好來討論一下，我們都很歡迎，尤其是護理同仁，因為護理方面有好幾個團體，意見稍微有一點不一樣，但是我們絕對都願意來討論。","第二個，這個數據的算法是從112年開始，那個時候就用這種算法，用總收入的概念在計算，如果引起大家的誤解，我馬上要照護司再重新去看，請各醫院寫清楚。"],["陳委員菁徽：比如說您剛講的，把這些津貼再分開，不用給我們一個加總的數字，就是給我們一個大概的數字，但是有可能加到其他的津貼，未來我是這樣建議，不知道您採不採納？"],["邱部長泰源：我們會拜託醫院一定要去呈現那個真實的數據，因為只有公開透明才是解決問題最基本的一個方法。"],["陳委員菁徽：也希望您多方查證。"],["邱部長泰源：一定！一定！"],["陳委員菁徽：這邊當然也是幫護理師請願，因為非常多人傳來他們真實的薪水單等等；另外，他們也在網路上寫了很多在護理工作上碰到的情況，比如說，被家屬質疑態度、被病人呼來喚去等等，但是最近也有一批另外的網軍說，喊話的這些醫護人員其實是敵國的網軍。可不可以幫他們講幾句話？您知道現在的離職率真的很高，有院長說他來不及簽離職單；前幾天也有一位護理師說他在排隊簽離職單的時候等了一個小時，我想問，您會不會真的覺得現在這個離職潮是應該要解決的問題了？"],["邱部長泰源：我們要用科學的根據來看，每一個離職的同仁，我們都很心痛，包括我以前在病房、我們一起訓練的臺大護理系一個很優秀的學生，當時想說他將來一定會在護理界發光發熱，可是他畢業以後工作了半年，竟然要離職，我們聽了非常心痛，所以任何一個離職，我們都非常重視。至於說要等一個小時的部分，我們也有去問臺北市護理師公會，他說那一天3月3號剛好是最多人的時候，因為有些要職登，有些要離職，所以那個部分我們可以來分析。此外，我們也問過臺中市，其實可能剛好有一波上來，因為每個時段不太一樣，尤其在過年後會有一波離職，可是七、八月又會有人進來，但是去年12月跟一年以前相比，我們留任的護理人員，大概有增加3,800個左右，其中有1,200個是在醫院。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以有比之前多一點了。"],["邱部長泰源：這樣絕對不夠，所以我們會繼續努力。"],["陳委員菁徽：去年年初前一任行政院長就已經答應的白班津貼，今年應該可以發出來了吧？"],["邱部長泰源：經我們跟護理界一個長期的討論，我們在三班護病比的獎勵，一定要去顧及到，就是要給白班，現在先這樣做，所以白班等於其實是會領到三班……當然因為公務預算的問題，也希望預算能夠順利通過。"],["陳委員菁徽：三班護病比的入法是賴總統的政見，您會把這件事情也當成您任內的當務之急嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：這個當然是重要的任務，我們必須了解護理人員的心聲，當然我們也會跟相關的單位，譬如說醫院的院方，大家來談一下，怎麼樣在一種所謂的無痛學習下，能夠維繫病床的情況之下，來做一個處理。我常常在講，我們醫療改革有三個，第一個，要提供民眾最高的醫療品質；第二個，要給醫事人員最好的尊嚴；第三個，也要給醫療院所可以run、可以順利的運轉，不然的話，沒有醫療院所……"],["陳委員菁徽：我會再跟部長追進度。"],["邱部長泰源：這個部分我們會一直來討論。"],["陳委員菁徽：部長，有許許多多的官員在外面致詞，甚至賴總統在2月4號世界癌症日上直接說，癌症篩檢行政費用刪了一成、凍結三成，請問，這件事情到底是不是事實？"],["邱部長泰源：癌症這個部分當然是國健署的業務，只要是凍結業務費，其實對於推動各種相關業務，因為我們衛福部有七成是委辦計畫……"],["陳委員菁徽：到底是不是一成跟三成，這件事情到底是不是事實？"],["邱部長泰源：統刪一成、凍三成，所以看起來還是會有影響。"],["陳委員菁徽：你們新增了41億的癌症篩檢預算，重要的科子目包含業務費、獎補助費，是不是到現在其實你們也還沒有確定這筆新的大預算還沒有核實分配，是不是？"],["邱部長泰源：請吳署長說明。"],["吳署長昭軍：最主要以這次來講，凍刪的就是5.93億的那個部分。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以不是一成跟三成？"],["吳署長昭軍：就是5.93億裡面的一成跟三成，如果是整體的，一成跟三成所造成的影響就可能小一點。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以不是癌症篩檢。"],["吳署長昭軍：我們講的是業務費的推動。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以不是癌症篩檢嘛！"],["吳署長昭軍：對民眾服務的部分沒有刪到。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以兩位現在就是說2月4號賴總統講的那句話不屬實……"],["吳署長昭軍：他講的是行政費用，沒有問題啊！"],["陳委員菁徽：2月5號我發了一個公文，詢問到底是不是這樣子，結果你們回文說，因為未獲得具體結論，故總預算歲出、歲入之刪減、凍結金額，於立法院朝野協商達成共識後，即可具體核算。這是你們給我的公文，但是你們怎麼可以在外面有這樣子的說法呢？"],["邱部長泰源：我想我們各個司署在編列預算，除了業務費，當然還有實質上付給各醫療院所的部分，這是連在一起的，只要刪了那個，當然就會影響到……"],["陳委員菁徽：部長，這張資料前幾天你也看過了，我們衛生福利部已經增加了300億的預算；國民健康署已經增加了55億的預算，如果你們繼續在外面講根本還沒有算出來比例，我覺得真的有失公允。可能我沒辦法勸告總統，但是我真的希望各位官員出去說話的時候還是要有所本，其實第一輪時我們只有減列15萬；第二輪我們還提案讓你可以科目自行調整，所以當你多拿了300億、多拿了55億，然後你一直說這個做不到、那個做不到，我覺得情何以堪啊！部長，我們其實去年3月在這邊排了解凍案，我回去算了一下，我們總共排了22個解凍案，您只要好好的報告，其實我們這22個解凍案也都解凍了，你們去年3月提出，4月就已經解凍了，如果你們今年還要覆議，然後因為這樣子而去延宕，甚至把癱瘓國政等等到處去宣講，我覺得這樣真的是很不對的行為。"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，因為我們大家長久都在衛環委員會，比較了解人民健康需要的資源，所以真的很感謝在委員會裡面大家給予最大的幫忙，可是在統刪、統凍這個部分大概就真的會影響到相當多業務的執行，比如說，你說在幾月以後才解凍，可是我現在就要去買疫苗，就要去跟人家簽約，現在所有的人都只好……當然你說3月會解凍……"],["陳委員菁徽：其實如果你們不要提覆議案，這個凍結不是現在就要排解凍案了嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：可是這變成是一個未知數，會讓我們不知道計畫到底要核出去或不核出去，對於在那邊期待建設的人，的確是真的要體諒到他們的……"],["陳委員菁徽：部長，我最後具體建議，如果你們真的沒有核算出核實的金額或比例的話，也很希望你們在出去做一些演講、公開說明的時候，真的可以保守一點、說實話，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：我還是拜託委員能夠儘量讓我們……因為國健署增加的預算，其實就是我們多年來在做全民癌症篩檢的給付，為什麼會增加……"],["陳委員菁徽：其實你看我剛剛講的，在第一輪我們減列15萬，你編了111億，我們減列15萬，其實朝野的委員是非常支持你們的，看得出來啊！對吧？"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["陳委員菁徽：編列111億，我們才減列15萬。"],["邱部長泰源：對，我想在委員會裡面大家真的是給人民的健康很大的支持，我真的非常感謝，但是在統刪、統凍這個部分，仍然已經造成現在我們在業務上需要再比較努力去調整。"],["陳委員菁徽：我知道，其實我有在聽前幾天的質詢，預算多了300億、多了55億還是窒礙難行，這個大家都聽懂了！謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員，謝謝部長。","接續我們請王育敏委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":314,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-2","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","涂權吉","黃秀芳","王正旭","林淑芬","羅智強","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","洪孟楷","張啓楷","劉建國","陳培瑜","楊曜","王義川"],"page_start":227,"meetingDate":["2025-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1142701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142701_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長就「有關全國急重症醫療量能」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142701_00005"}}}