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人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。\n十四、審查委員魯明哲等17人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。\n十五、審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。\n十六、審查委員葉元之等20人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。\n十七、審查委員林德福等20人擬具「青年發展基本法草案」案。\n十八、審查委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。\n(第十八案如未獲議事處來函，則不予審查；僅進行詢答)\n(本次會議若因當日加開院會而停開，不再另行通知)）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-03-13","start_time":"2025-03-13T09:49:22+08:00","end_time":"2025-03-13T10:00:22+08:00","duration":660,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-3-22-2"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"159060","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159060","tool":"pyannote","id":"159060-pyannote"},"job_id":"OSrYpJ6xhLHEaGcm","queued_at":"2025-03-13 22:21:41","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2025-03-13 22:21:41","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159060","target":null},{"time":"2025-03-13 22:21:42","msg":"already 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\"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"範\"}, {\"word\": \"圍\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 102.505, \"end\": 103.005, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 103.005, \"end\": 103.085, \"score\": 0.658}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"恰\", \"start\": 103.085, \"end\": 103.225, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 103.225, \"end\": 103.245, \"score\": 0.963}]}, {\"start\": 107.925, \"end\": 115.714, \"text\": \"跟委員報告因為對我們來講這個年齡涵蓋更多的話可以照顧到更多的人但也坦白講就變成資源會稀釋到也會被稀釋掉我想針對你講的這個部分我比較不認同因為其實因為資源稀釋然後我們就把應該照顧的那個群組變少\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 107.925, \"end\": 108.065, \"score\": 0.738}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 108.065, \"end\": 108.486, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 108.486, \"end\": 109.347, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 109.347, \"end\": 109.627, \"score\": 0.65}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 109.627, \"end\": 110.488, \"score\": 0.64}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 110.488, \"end\": 110.708, \"score\": 0.684}, {\"word\": \"齡\"}, {\"word\": \"涵\", \"start\": 110.708, \"end\": 111.509, \"score\": 0.693}, {\"word\": \"蓋\"}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 111.509, \"end\": 111.73, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 111.73, \"end\": 111.87, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 111.87, \"end\": 112.07, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 112.07, \"end\": 112.09, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 112.09, \"end\": 112.23, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 112.23, \"end\": 112.47, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"顧\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 112.47, \"end\": 112.611, \"score\": 0.682}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 112.611, \"end\": 112.791, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 112.791, \"end\": 112.911, \"score\": 0.683}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 112.911, \"end\": 113.051, \"score\": 0.704}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 113.051, \"end\": 113.512, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 113.512, \"end\": 113.612, \"score\": 0.594}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 113.612, \"end\": 113.752, \"score\": 0.565}, {\"word\": \"坦\", \"start\": 113.752, \"end\": 113.912, \"score\": 0.592}, {\"word\": \"白\", \"start\": 113.912, \"end\": 114.052, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 114.052, \"end\": 114.072, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 114.072, \"end\": 114.092, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"源\", \"start\": 114.092, \"end\": 114.152, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"稀\", \"start\": 114.152, \"end\": 114.192, \"score\": 0.05}, {\"word\": \"釋\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 114.192, \"end\": 114.212, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 114.212, \"end\": 114.312, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, 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{\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 115.514, \"end\": 115.534, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"顧\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 115.534, \"end\": 115.554, \"score\": 0.028}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 115.554, \"end\": 115.674, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"群\", \"start\": 115.674, \"end\": 115.694, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"組\"}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 115.694, \"end\": 115.714, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 127.407, \"end\": 154.814, \"text\": \"這好像也不太對所以我覺得針對年齡層這個部分我覺得我們可以再思考一下那我們再來看另外一個背景就我國現在針對未滿12歲的兒童還有這個12歲以上未滿18歲的少年我們有兒少權益保障法這您知道的那對於45歲以上的中高齡跟高齡者我們有中高齡及高齡者就業促進法那麼在上個會期也有55歲以上的壯世代政策及產業發展促進法我們看到每個年齡其實都涵蓋起來了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 127.407, \"end\": 127.487, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 127.487, \"end\": 127.627, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 127.627, \"end\": 127.707, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 127.707, \"end\": 127.787, \"score\": 0.792}, 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0.887}, {\"word\": \"壯\"}, {\"word\": \"世\", \"start\": 150.533, \"end\": 150.793, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 150.793, \"end\": 151.013, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 151.013, \"end\": 151.213, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"策\", \"start\": 151.213, \"end\": 151.373, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 151.373, \"end\": 151.973, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 151.973, \"end\": 152.133, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"促\", \"start\": 152.133, \"end\": 152.513, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 152.513, \"end\": 153.153, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 153.153, \"end\": 153.273, \"score\": 0.701}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 153.273, \"end\": 153.373, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 153.373, \"end\": 153.493, \"score\": 0.691}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 153.493, \"end\": 153.754, 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00:00:12,094\n好謝謝主席我們有請葉次長還有我們陳署長好有請葉次長陳署長好次長今天我們討論青年基本法我想我們來看一下這個背景我們都知道現在台灣即將要邁入超高齡的社會也就是這個數據在65歲以上可能要占到20%左右的人口那但是我們一方面高齡化的社會一方面又少子化的來臨\n\n2\n00:00:34,585 --> 00:01:00,555\n所以呢我們可以看到青年其實在我們國家未來的發展它佔了非常關鍵的位置跟非常關鍵的力量那也是我們社會創新跟經濟動能的一個重要的支柱那這個背景是非常的重要的但是我們在討論立法保障青年之前我想我們今天有許多的版本那包括這個教育部跟專家學院自己都討論過我們針對青年來界定不過呢以上大家不同的版本不同的看法\n\n3\n00:01:01,095 --> 00:01:29,397\n在今年年龄这上面来的界定有18到35啦18到45啦那包括这个亲子会提到的是18到35但是事实上这个年龄的范围其实涵盖了全台大概21.36%如果按照亲子会的这个数据来看不过现在有很多专家学者有提出来说因为我们现在整个社会的变迁很多年轻人不管是延迟就业啦这个延长了这个就学的时间啦生育啦结婚啦都延后了\n\n4\n00:01:29,737 --> 00:01:43,245\n所以事實上七年的階段所謂的七年階段其實應該是更長更多元化去定義它所以我們針對這個七年的年齡的定定今天聽您報告還是以這個所謂的青絲會的版本說18到35不曉得次長您認為幾歲的這個年齡的範圍是比較恰當的\n\n5\n00:01:47,925 --> 00:01:55,714\n跟委員報告因為對我們來講這個年齡涵蓋更多的話可以照顧到更多的人但也坦白講就變成資源會稀釋到也會被稀釋掉我想針對你講的這個部分我比較不認同因為其實因為資源稀釋然後我們就把應該照顧的那個群組變少\n\n6\n00:02:07,407 --> 00:02:34,814\n這好像也不太對所以我覺得針對年齡層這個部分我覺得我們可以再思考一下那我們再來看另外一個背景就我國現在針對未滿12歲的兒童還有這個12歲以上未滿18歲的少年我們有兒少權益保障法這您知道的那對於45歲以上的中高齡跟高齡者我們有中高齡及高齡者就業促進法那麼在上個會期也有55歲以上的壯世代政策及產業發展促進法我們看到每個年齡其實都涵蓋起來了\n\n7\n00:02:35,874 --> 00:02:53,736\n所以為什麼有的版本我們有提到說要18到45可能就把各個年齡其實都涵蓋在裡面而符合現代多元發展的一個狀況來看那但是呢我們這樣看起來就是各個年齡層都有它一個保障屬於它的專法在但是我們對於七年長期缺乏專屬的這個法律保障所以\n\n8\n00:02:54,717 --> 00:03:16,087\n剛才好像有聽到您也在講說現在行政院現在我們也有這個版本要出來嘛但我們還是要來看一下其實過去政府的一個資源配置其實我們大概會以所謂的這個高依賴族群也就是像兒童啦老年啦為這個優先那因為相比較之下我們會覺得七年他比較有各方面自主的能力所以呢今天\n\n9\n00:03:17,147 --> 00:03:37,235\n這個次長也報告了很多相關的這個七年的政策啦計畫啦等等在推動不過看起來有很多其實都是比較輔助性的所以呢我想既然次長你們也認為應該要推動這個制定七年基本法那不曉得現在這個法您認為這個需要制定的理由是什麼然後進行到哪裡了\n\n10\n00:03:38,015 --> 00:03:58,449\n我想當然就是跟委員的指教一樣我們大家認為在這個變動的時代這個青年要面對的挑戰其實是比過往的很多世代更大的那怎麼樣在包括在就業創業居住還有身心健康等等的面向照顧他我們認為這是非常非常重要的所以聽起來這麼重要那現在進度到什麼地方了\n\n11\n00:03:58,629 --> 00:04:13,363\n各位委員報告我們目前這個布板已經完成了但因為裡面很多條文都牽扯到各個部會要扮演什麼樣的角色所以我們現在目前正在跟各部會在要跟各部會協調所以這個條文大家覺得OK還有地方政府好\n\n12\n00:04:13,863 --> 00:04:38,084\n我想這個布板有布板這當然是好事但我們要加緊腳步尤其你剛剛說的各部會還有很多事情要協調一個月內完成好那我想其實這個是這樣子為什麼我們也有這個時效性大家都很在乎這個法因為我想在2016的時候我們看到蔡政府執政的時候其實就有說過要保障青年權利的青年發展法那時候就已經提了可是我們看到哇真的也是延宕很久所以我想\n\n13\n00:04:39,585 --> 00:05:01,937\n這個刻不容緩我們一個月內我們要積極把它做完來那當然這本席在這邊要另外提醒也就是說我們現在對於七年的政策其實都散落在這個各部會像剛剛您提的嘛所以缺乏針對七年階段特有問題上面我們綜合性的一個保障比如說像我們今天你剛剛提到低薪啦工時啦租屋啦甚至於職場一些相關的歧視啊心理這個健康等等\n\n14\n00:05:02,697 --> 00:05:14,324\n那所以我們一旦如果制定了青年基本法之外我想是要用這個基本法的這個高度跟廣度來做那所以我覺得刻不容緩那一個月之內其實因為散播這麼廣其實我也蠻擔心這時效有沒有辦法趕上所以我們希望能夠積極來做那另外我想一個重\n\n15\n00:05:20,768 --> 00:05:42,577\n今天一個重點要跟您討論就是我們關於這一直在討論的行動載具管理在我們校園內我想2023年的時候聯合國的教科文組織就已經呼籲了校園內應該禁止使用智慧型手機因為要藉此而來解決課堂的混亂改善學習並且保護兒童受到網路霸凌的問題這問題大家討論了很久\n\n16\n00:05:43,997 --> 00:06:11,282\n所以我們現在看到教育的現狀我們在學生上課的時候使用手機或是智慧型手錶等等教師也都有覺得說是影響了學習的專注力獨立思考能力以及他在教學現場的一些困擾等等過去還有發生如果跟教師之間也許有一些糾紛不同意見看法的時候家長有時候可能會請學生拿手機或智慧型手錶來錄音錄影也造成更加強的一些對立等等\n\n17\n00:06:12,222 --> 00:06:31,668\n这些状况我想在教文委员会我们在上个会期也召开过公听会教育部在当时有承诺在今年二月份的时候这个学期开学的时候我们就要来完成修订高中以下学校校园行动载具使用原则当时就有承诺但是呢最近教育部又改口了\n\n18\n00:06:32,408 --> 00:06:56,856\n改口說要延宕到114年學年度實施也就是這個九月份但是呢我們看到三月你才在召集大家來開會還在聽取意見公聽會都開過為何這麼慢我跟委員報告事實上是我們是去年十月開公聽會然後今年二月的時候因為我們覺得也要收集學生團體的意見但是你有承諾說今年二月啊就要完成修訂啊這個承諾為什麼跳票\n\n19\n00:06:58,464 --> 00:07:14,693\n我們當初是提說2月要提出草案啦那我們目前草案已經提出來了所以我們最近沒有喔當時有說就是2月要完成修正喔我們是提出草案然後那因為我們提出草案為了慎重來我們來討論一下喔所以現在目前學校對於行動載具喔這個管理的規範是不一的啦\n\n20\n00:07:19,256 --> 00:07:35,026\n包括有些學校是統一收或者是這個繳那有些學校是完全禁止但也有學校就是說尊重自主這樣所以每個學校狀況不一樣那這造成現場第一線的教室管理非常的困難所以我想請教一下您剛剛也說草案現在出來了\n\n21\n00:07:35,626 --> 00:07:53,243\n請問一下修訂的方向目前是朝全國一致性有相關的管理規則那有的話是什麼或者是還是一樣像現在一樣把責任丟給各校各老師去管理是哪一種我們目前其實就是一些重要的原則是所有的學校都應該要採取哪些叫重要的原則譬如說上課時間他就是應該要\n\n22\n00:07:54,685 --> 00:08:07,812\n統一保管不能拿出來然後一直到什麼時間什麼樣的情況下他才有機會可以拿出來用所以我們現在草案的大方向是傾向於全國統一管理就是上課時間不能使用是這樣子嗎確定嗎是\n\n23\n00:08:09,713 --> 00:08:18,662\n好那我想因為我們看到其實立法院的法治局其實也有提出來就是說我們現在全部都是用行動載具使用原則來做規範這可能會衍生侵犯學生個人財產權的法律爭議\n\n24\n00:08:25,309 --> 00:08:39,363\n也會引起學校在執行的時候跟教室在實行的時候引起跟學生跟教室間的一些爭議在所以我在想那我們為什麼不提到告法律的慰藉如果用原則將來如果學生或家長面臨司法告訴有沒有這樣的機會那又應該怎麼辦\n\n25\n00:08:41,004 --> 00:09:04,703\n跟委員報告因為目前國民教育法跟高級中等教育法已經有相關的規範所以在那個架構下我們就可以規範學生在這個事情的行為所以目前還沒有需要到修法因為修法可能還要再更久本席在這裡提醒啦這後面如果真的下去總會有一兩個案例萬一面臨到這個司法告訴的時候我覺得老師還是會有壓力在的那另外我想更重要的是這個法\n\n26\n00:09:05,263 --> 00:09:29,596\n當然是重要的依據可是呢次長不曉得您知不知道在108年的時候教育部有推動12年國教那這個課程有把科技資訊與媒體素養列為當時的九大核心素養之一那更在112年的3月的時候有公佈數位時代媒體素養教育白皮書那時候也是在潘部長的時代那但是呢我們看起來公佈是公佈了\n\n27\n00:09:30,657 --> 00:09:53,627\n是似乎沒有落實也沒有在相關的執行所以呢我們要來達到所謂的培養知情負責及利他的數位公民很重要但卻沒有做那教育部是不是可以把校園行動載具這個管理來做納入到這個推動我們數位公民素養教育計劃那來透過我們的家校合作的指引例如\n\n28\n00:09:54,167 --> 00:10:10,683\n除了法之外是不是有什麼辦法有什麼計畫可以跟家長跟老師來說明孩子們要怎麼樣正確去使用這個手機或是智慧型的載具再來還有我們所謂的數位公民那應該怎麼達成不要只有每次提出一個計畫那計畫輪口號就結束了\n\n29\n00:10:12,888 --> 00:10:36,901\n我想委員的這個建議非常好,我們會來研議那也跟委員報告台灣的孩子資訊素養在國際的評比上面我們是在排這個前幾名的是第一還是第四目前是排第一的所以我想這個地方永遠都還有我們可以再加強的地方所以委員剛才提到怎麼樣幫忙跟家長來一起來跟家長來教育一家長一起來做這個事情我想我們會待會去研議\n\n30\n00:10:37,261 --> 00:10:55,371\n宣導啦你也很難教育家長但宣導啦那我在想喔我剛剛所提的這個喔能不能在一個時間內你提出來我們應該要怎麼做這也是延續之前潘部長的一個想法呀是多久你可以把它提出來我們可能在一個月的時間之內來規劃一下一個月內好不好謝謝市長謝謝委員好謝謝萬美林委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6811\t12094\t好 謝謝主席 我們有請葉次長還有我們陳署長好 有請葉次長 陳署長好 次長 今天我們討論青年基本法我想我們來看一下這個背景我們都知道現在台灣即將要邁入超高齡的社會也就是這個數據在65歲以上可能要占到20%左右的人口那但是我們一方面高齡化的社會一方面又少子化的來臨\n34585\t60555\t所以呢我們可以看到青年其實在我們國家未來的發展它佔了非常關鍵的位置跟非常關鍵的力量那也是我們社會創新跟經濟動能的一個重要的支柱那這個背景是非常的重要的但是我們在討論立法保障青年之前我想我們今天有許多的版本那包括這個教育部跟專家學院自己都討論過我們針對青年來界定不過呢以上大家不同的版本不同的看法\n61095\t89397\t在今年年龄这上面来的界定有18到35啦18到45啦那包括这个亲子会提到的是18到35但是事实上这个年龄的范围其实涵盖了全台大概21.36%如果按照亲子会的这个数据来看不过现在有很多专家学者有提出来说因为我们现在整个社会的变迁很多年轻人不管是延迟就业啦这个延长了这个就学的时间啦生育啦结婚啦都延后了\n89737\t103245\t所以事實上七年的階段所謂的七年階段其實應該是更長更多元化去定義它所以我們針對這個七年的年齡的定定今天聽您報告還是以這個所謂的青絲會的版本說18到35不曉得次長您認為幾歲的這個年齡的範圍是比較恰當的\n107925\t115714\t跟委員報告因為對我們來講這個年齡涵蓋更多的話可以照顧到更多的人但也坦白講就變成資源會稀釋到也會被稀釋掉我想針對你講的這個部分我比較不認同因為其實因為資源稀釋然後我們就把應該照顧的那個群組變少\n127407\t154814\t這好像也不太對所以我覺得針對年齡層這個部分我覺得我們可以再思考一下那我們再來看另外一個背景就我國現在針對未滿12歲的兒童還有這個12歲以上未滿18歲的少年我們有兒少權益保障法這您知道的那對於45歲以上的中高齡跟高齡者我們有中高齡及高齡者就業促進法那麼在上個會期也有55歲以上的壯世代政策及產業發展促進法我們看到每個年齡其實都涵蓋起來了\n155874\t173736\t所以為什麼有的版本我們有提到說要18到45可能就把各個年齡其實都涵蓋在裡面而符合現代多元發展的一個狀況來看那但是呢我們這樣看起來就是各個年齡層都有它一個保障屬於它的專法在但是我們對於七年長期缺乏專屬的這個法律保障所以\n174717\t196087\t剛才好像有聽到您也在講說現在行政院現在我們也有這個版本要出來嘛但我們還是要來看一下其實過去政府的一個資源配置其實我們大概會以所謂的這個高依賴族群也就是像兒童啦老年啦為這個優先那因為相比較之下我們會覺得七年他比較有各方面自主的能力所以呢今天\n197147\t217235\t這個次長也報告了很多相關的這個七年的政策啦計畫啦等等在推動不過看起來有很多其實都是比較輔助性的所以呢我想既然次長你們也認為應該要推動這個制定七年基本法那不曉得現在這個法您認為這個需要制定的理由是什麼然後進行到哪裡了\n218015\t238449\t我想當然就是跟委員的指教一樣我們大家認為在這個變動的時代這個青年要面對的挑戰其實是比過往的很多世代更大的那怎麼樣在包括在就業創業居住還有身心健康等等的面向照顧他我們認為這是非常非常重要的所以聽起來這麼重要那現在進度到什麼地方了\n238629\t253363\t各位委員報告我們目前這個布板已經完成了但因為裡面很多條文都牽扯到各個部會要扮演什麼樣的角色所以我們現在目前正在跟各部會在要跟各部會協調所以這個條文大家覺得OK還有地方政府好\n253863\t278084\t我想這個布板有布板這當然是好事但我們要加緊腳步尤其你剛剛說的各部會還有很多事情要協調一個月內完成好那我想其實這個是這樣子為什麼我們也有這個時效性大家都很在乎這個法因為我想在2016的時候我們看到蔡政府執政的時候其實就有說過要保障青年權利的青年發展法那時候就已經提了可是我們看到哇 真的也是延宕很久所以我想\n279585\t301937\t這個刻不容緩我們一個月內我們要積極把它做完來那當然這本席在這邊要另外提醒也就是說我們現在對於七年的政策其實都散落在這個各部會像剛剛您提的嘛所以缺乏針對七年階段特有問題上面我們綜合性的一個保障比如說像我們今天你剛剛提到低薪啦工時啦租屋啦甚至於職場一些相關的歧視啊心理這個健康等等\n302697\t314324\t那所以我們一旦如果制定了青年基本法之外我想是要用這個基本法的這個高度跟廣度來做那所以我覺得刻不容緩那一個月之內其實因為散播這麼廣其實我也蠻擔心這時效有沒有辦法趕上所以我們希望能夠積極來做那另外我想一個重\n320768\t342577\t今天一個重點要跟您討論就是我們關於這一直在討論的行動載具管理在我們校園內我想2023年的時候聯合國的教科文組織就已經呼籲了校園內應該禁止使用智慧型手機因為要藉此而來解決課堂的混亂改善學習並且保護兒童受到網路霸凌的問題這問題大家討論了很久\n343997\t371282\t所以我們現在看到教育的現狀我們在學生上課的時候使用手機或是智慧型手錶等等教師也都有覺得說是影響了學習的專注力獨立思考能力以及他在教學現場的一些困擾等等過去還有發生如果跟教師之間也許有一些糾紛不同意見看法的時候家長有時候可能會請學生拿手機或智慧型手錶來錄音錄影也造成更加強的一些對立等等\n372222\t391668\t这些状况我想在教文委员会我们在上个会期也召开过公听会教育部在当时有承诺在今年二月份的时候这个学期开学的时候我们就要来完成修订高中以下学校校园行动载具使用原则当时就有承诺但是呢最近教育部又改口了\n392408\t416856\t改口說要延宕到114年學年度實施也就是這個九月份但是呢我們看到三月你才在召集大家來開會還在聽取意見公聽會都開過為何這麼慢我跟委員報告事實上是我們是去年十月開公聽會然後今年二月的時候因為我們覺得也要收集學生團體的意見但是你有承諾說今年二月啊就要完成修訂啊這個承諾為什麼跳票\n418464\t434693\t我們當初是提說2月要提出草案啦那我們目前草案已經提出來了所以我們最近沒有喔 當時有說就是2月要完成修正喔我們是提出草案然後那因為我們提出草案為了慎重來 我們來討論一下喔所以現在目前學校對於行動載具喔這個管理的規範是不一的啦\n439256\t455026\t包括有些學校是統一收或者是這個繳那有些學校是完全禁止但也有學校就是說尊重自主這樣所以每個學校狀況不一樣那這造成現場第一線的教室管理非常的困難所以我想請教一下您剛剛也說草案現在出來了\n455626\t473243\t請問一下修訂的方向目前是朝全國一致性有相關的管理規則那有的話是什麼或者是還是一樣像現在一樣把責任丟給各校各老師去管理是哪一種我們目前其實就是一些重要的原則是所有的學校都應該要採取哪些叫重要的原則譬如說上課時間他就是應該要\n474685\t487812\t統一保管不能拿出來然後一直到什麼時間什麼樣的情況下他才有機會可以拿出來用所以我們現在草案的大方向是傾向於全國統一管理就是上課時間不能使用是這樣子嗎確定嗎是\n489713\t498662\t好 那我想因為我們看到其實立法院的法治局其實也有提出來就是說我們現在全部都是用行動載具使用原則來做規範這可能會衍生侵犯學生個人財產權的法律爭議\n505309\t519363\t也會引起學校在執行的時候跟教室在實行的時候引起跟學生跟教室間的一些爭議在所以我在想那我們為什麼不提到告法律的慰藉如果用原則將來如果學生或家長面臨司法告訴有沒有這樣的機會那又應該怎麼辦\n521004\t544703\t跟委員報告因為目前國民教育法跟高級中等教育法已經有相關的規範所以在那個架構下我們就可以規範學生在這個事情的行為所以目前還沒有需要到修法因為修法可能還要再更久本席在這裡提醒啦這後面如果真的下去總會有一兩個案例萬一面臨到這個司法告訴的時候我覺得老師還是會有壓力在的那另外我想更重要的是這個法\n545263\t569596\t當然是重要的依據可是呢 次長不曉得您知不知道在108年的時候教育部有推動12年國教那這個課程有把科技資訊與媒體素養列為當時的九大核心素養之一那更在112年的3月的時候有公佈數位時代媒體素養教育白皮書那時候也是在潘部長的時代那但是呢 我們看起來公佈是公佈了\n570657\t593627\t是似乎沒有落實也沒有在相關的執行所以呢我們要來達到所謂的培養知情負責及利他的數位公民很重要但卻沒有做那教育部是不是可以把校園行動載具這個管理來做納入到這個推動我們數位公民素養教育計劃那來透過我們的家校合作的指引例如\n594167\t610683\t除了法之外是不是有什麼辦法有什麼計畫可以跟家長跟老師來說明孩子們要怎麼樣正確去使用這個手機或是智慧型的載具再來還有我們所謂的數位公民那應該怎麼達成不要只有每次提出一個計畫那計畫輪口號就結束了\n612888\t636901\t我想委員的這個建議非常好,我們會來研議那也跟委員報告台灣的孩子資訊素養在國際的評比上面我們是在排這個前幾名的是第一還是第四目前是排第一的所以我想這個地方永遠都還有我們可以再加強的地方所以委員剛才提到怎麼樣幫忙跟家長來一起來跟家長來教育一家長一起來做這個事情我想我們會待會去研議\n637261\t655371\t宣導啦 你也很難教育家長 但宣導啦那我在想喔 我剛剛所提的這個喔能不能在一個時間內 你提出來我們應該要怎麼做這也是延續之前潘部長的一個想法呀是多久你可以把它提出來我們可能在一個月的時間之內來規劃一下一個月內 好不好 謝謝市長謝謝委員好 謝謝萬美林委員\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 我們有請葉次長還有我們陳署長好 有請葉次長 陳署長好 次長 今天我們討論青年基本法我想我們來看一下這個背景我們都知道現在台灣即將要邁入超高齡的社會也就是這個數據在65歲以上可能要占到20%左右的人口那但是我們一方面高齡化的社會一方面又少子化的來臨\n所以呢我們可以看到青年其實在我們國家未來的發展它佔了非常關鍵的位置跟非常關鍵的力量那也是我們社會創新跟經濟動能的一個重要的支柱那這個背景是非常的重要的但是我們在討論立法保障青年之前我想我們今天有許多的版本那包括這個教育部跟專家學院自己都討論過我們針對青年來界定不過呢以上大家不同的版本不同的看法\n在今年年龄这上面来的界定有18到35啦18到45啦那包括这个亲子会提到的是18到35但是事实上这个年龄的范围其实涵盖了全台大概21.36%如果按照亲子会的这个数据来看不过现在有很多专家学者有提出来说因为我们现在整个社会的变迁很多年轻人不管是延迟就业啦这个延长了这个就学的时间啦生育啦结婚啦都延后了\n所以事實上七年的階段所謂的七年階段其實應該是更長更多元化去定義它所以我們針對這個七年的年齡的定定今天聽您報告還是以這個所謂的青絲會的版本說18到35不曉得次長您認為幾歲的這個年齡的範圍是比較恰當的\n跟委員報告因為對我們來講這個年齡涵蓋更多的話可以照顧到更多的人但也坦白講就變成資源會稀釋到也會被稀釋掉我想針對你講的這個部分我比較不認同因為其實因為資源稀釋然後我們就把應該照顧的那個群組變少\n這好像也不太對所以我覺得針對年齡層這個部分我覺得我們可以再思考一下那我們再來看另外一個背景就我國現在針對未滿12歲的兒童還有這個12歲以上未滿18歲的少年我們有兒少權益保障法這您知道的那對於45歲以上的中高齡跟高齡者我們有中高齡及高齡者就業促進法那麼在上個會期也有55歲以上的壯世代政策及產業發展促進法我們看到每個年齡其實都涵蓋起來了\n所以為什麼有的版本我們有提到說要18到45可能就把各個年齡其實都涵蓋在裡面而符合現代多元發展的一個狀況來看那但是呢我們這樣看起來就是各個年齡層都有它一個保障屬於它的專法在但是我們對於七年長期缺乏專屬的這個法律保障所以\n剛才好像有聽到您也在講說現在行政院現在我們也有這個版本要出來嘛但我們還是要來看一下其實過去政府的一個資源配置其實我們大概會以所謂的這個高依賴族群也就是像兒童啦老年啦為這個優先那因為相比較之下我們會覺得七年他比較有各方面自主的能力所以呢今天\n這個次長也報告了很多相關的這個七年的政策啦計畫啦等等在推動不過看起來有很多其實都是比較輔助性的所以呢我想既然次長你們也認為應該要推動這個制定七年基本法那不曉得現在這個法您認為這個需要制定的理由是什麼然後進行到哪裡了\n我想當然就是跟委員的指教一樣我們大家認為在這個變動的時代這個青年要面對的挑戰其實是比過往的很多世代更大的那怎麼樣在包括在就業創業居住還有身心健康等等的面向照顧他我們認為這是非常非常重要的所以聽起來這麼重要那現在進度到什麼地方了\n各位委員報告我們目前這個布板已經完成了但因為裡面很多條文都牽扯到各個部會要扮演什麼樣的角色所以我們現在目前正在跟各部會在要跟各部會協調所以這個條文大家覺得OK還有地方政府好\n我想這個布板有布板這當然是好事但我們要加緊腳步尤其你剛剛說的各部會還有很多事情要協調一個月內完成好那我想其實這個是這樣子為什麼我們也有這個時效性大家都很在乎這個法因為我想在2016的時候我們看到蔡政府執政的時候其實就有說過要保障青年權利的青年發展法那時候就已經提了可是我們看到哇 真的也是延宕很久所以我想\n這個刻不容緩我們一個月內我們要積極把它做完來那當然這本席在這邊要另外提醒也就是說我們現在對於七年的政策其實都散落在這個各部會像剛剛您提的嘛所以缺乏針對七年階段特有問題上面我們綜合性的一個保障比如說像我們今天你剛剛提到低薪啦工時啦租屋啦甚至於職場一些相關的歧視啊心理這個健康等等\n那所以我們一旦如果制定了青年基本法之外我想是要用這個基本法的這個高度跟廣度來做那所以我覺得刻不容緩那一個月之內其實因為散播這麼廣其實我也蠻擔心這時效有沒有辦法趕上所以我們希望能夠積極來做那另外我想一個重\n今天一個重點要跟您討論就是我們關於這一直在討論的行動載具管理在我們校園內我想2023年的時候聯合國的教科文組織就已經呼籲了校園內應該禁止使用智慧型手機因為要藉此而來解決課堂的混亂改善學習並且保護兒童受到網路霸凌的問題這問題大家討論了很久\n所以我們現在看到教育的現狀我們在學生上課的時候使用手機或是智慧型手錶等等教師也都有覺得說是影響了學習的專注力獨立思考能力以及他在教學現場的一些困擾等等過去還有發生如果跟教師之間也許有一些糾紛不同意見看法的時候家長有時候可能會請學生拿手機或智慧型手錶來錄音錄影也造成更加強的一些對立等等\n这些状况我想在教文委员会我们在上个会期也召开过公听会教育部在当时有承诺在今年二月份的时候这个学期开学的时候我们就要来完成修订高中以下学校校园行动载具使用原则当时就有承诺但是呢最近教育部又改口了\n改口說要延宕到114年學年度實施也就是這個九月份但是呢我們看到三月你才在召集大家來開會還在聽取意見公聽會都開過為何這麼慢我跟委員報告事實上是我們是去年十月開公聽會然後今年二月的時候因為我們覺得也要收集學生團體的意見但是你有承諾說今年二月啊就要完成修訂啊這個承諾為什麼跳票\n我們當初是提說2月要提出草案啦那我們目前草案已經提出來了所以我們最近沒有喔 當時有說就是2月要完成修正喔我們是提出草案然後那因為我們提出草案為了慎重來 我們來討論一下喔所以現在目前學校對於行動載具喔這個管理的規範是不一的啦\n包括有些學校是統一收或者是這個繳那有些學校是完全禁止但也有學校就是說尊重自主這樣所以每個學校狀況不一樣那這造成現場第一線的教室管理非常的困難所以我想請教一下您剛剛也說草案現在出來了\n請問一下修訂的方向目前是朝全國一致性有相關的管理規則那有的話是什麼或者是還是一樣像現在一樣把責任丟給各校各老師去管理是哪一種我們目前其實就是一些重要的原則是所有的學校都應該要採取哪些叫重要的原則譬如說上課時間他就是應該要\n統一保管不能拿出來然後一直到什麼時間什麼樣的情況下他才有機會可以拿出來用所以我們現在草案的大方向是傾向於全國統一管理就是上課時間不能使用是這樣子嗎確定嗎是\n好 那我想因為我們看到其實立法院的法治局其實也有提出來就是說我們現在全部都是用行動載具使用原則來做規範這可能會衍生侵犯學生個人財產權的法律爭議\n也會引起學校在執行的時候跟教室在實行的時候引起跟學生跟教室間的一些爭議在所以我在想那我們為什麼不提到告法律的慰藉如果用原則將來如果學生或家長面臨司法告訴有沒有這樣的機會那又應該怎麼辦\n跟委員報告因為目前國民教育法跟高級中等教育法已經有相關的規範所以在那個架構下我們就可以規範學生在這個事情的行為所以目前還沒有需要到修法因為修法可能還要再更久本席在這裡提醒啦這後面如果真的下去總會有一兩個案例萬一面臨到這個司法告訴的時候我覺得老師還是會有壓力在的那另外我想更重要的是這個法\n當然是重要的依據可是呢 次長不曉得您知不知道在108年的時候教育部有推動12年國教那這個課程有把科技資訊與媒體素養列為當時的九大核心素養之一那更在112年的3月的時候有公佈數位時代媒體素養教育白皮書那時候也是在潘部長的時代那但是呢 我們看起來公佈是公佈了\n是似乎沒有落實也沒有在相關的執行所以呢我們要來達到所謂的培養知情負責及利他的數位公民很重要但卻沒有做那教育部是不是可以把校園行動載具這個管理來做納入到這個推動我們數位公民素養教育計劃那來透過我們的家校合作的指引例如\n除了法之外是不是有什麼辦法有什麼計畫可以跟家長跟老師來說明孩子們要怎麼樣正確去使用這個手機或是智慧型的載具再來還有我們所謂的數位公民那應該怎麼達成不要只有每次提出一個計畫那計畫輪口號就結束了\n我想委員的這個建議非常好,我們會來研議那也跟委員報告台灣的孩子資訊素養在國際的評比上面我們是在排這個前幾名的是第一還是第四目前是排第一的所以我想這個地方永遠都還有我們可以再加強的地方所以委員剛才提到怎麼樣幫忙跟家長來一起來跟家長來教育一家長一起來做這個事情我想我們會待會去研議\n宣導啦 你也很難教育家長 但宣導啦那我在想喔 我剛剛所提的這個喔能不能在一個時間內 你提出來我們應該要怎麼做這也是延續之前潘部長的一個想法呀是多久你可以把它提出來我們可能在一個月的時間之內來規劃一下一個月內 好不好 謝謝市長謝謝委員好 謝謝萬美林委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.811 --> 00:12.094\n好謝謝主席我們有請葉次長還有我們陳署長好有請葉次長陳署長好次長今天我們討論青年基本法我想我們來看一下這個背景我們都知道現在台灣即將要邁入超高齡的社會也就是這個數據在65歲以上可能要占到20%左右的人口那但是我們一方面高齡化的社會一方面又少子化的來臨\n\n00:34.585 --> 01:00.555\n所以呢我們可以看到青年其實在我們國家未來的發展它佔了非常關鍵的位置跟非常關鍵的力量那也是我們社會創新跟經濟動能的一個重要的支柱那這個背景是非常的重要的但是我們在討論立法保障青年之前我想我們今天有許多的版本那包括這個教育部跟專家學院自己都討論過我們針對青年來界定不過呢以上大家不同的版本不同的看法\n\n01:01.095 --> 01:29.397\n在今年年龄这上面来的界定有18到35啦18到45啦那包括这个亲子会提到的是18到35但是事实上这个年龄的范围其实涵盖了全台大概21.36%如果按照亲子会的这个数据来看不过现在有很多专家学者有提出来说因为我们现在整个社会的变迁很多年轻人不管是延迟就业啦这个延长了这个就学的时间啦生育啦结婚啦都延后了\n\n01:29.737 --> 01:43.245\n所以事實上七年的階段所謂的七年階段其實應該是更長更多元化去定義它所以我們針對這個七年的年齡的定定今天聽您報告還是以這個所謂的青絲會的版本說18到35不曉得次長您認為幾歲的這個年齡的範圍是比較恰當的\n\n01:47.925 --> 01:55.714\n跟委員報告因為對我們來講這個年齡涵蓋更多的話可以照顧到更多的人但也坦白講就變成資源會稀釋到也會被稀釋掉我想針對你講的這個部分我比較不認同因為其實因為資源稀釋然後我們就把應該照顧的那個群組變少\n\n02:07.407 --> 02:34.814\n這好像也不太對所以我覺得針對年齡層這個部分我覺得我們可以再思考一下那我們再來看另外一個背景就我國現在針對未滿12歲的兒童還有這個12歲以上未滿18歲的少年我們有兒少權益保障法這您知道的那對於45歲以上的中高齡跟高齡者我們有中高齡及高齡者就業促進法那麼在上個會期也有55歲以上的壯世代政策及產業發展促進法我們看到每個年齡其實都涵蓋起來了\n\n02:35.874 --> 02:53.736\n所以為什麼有的版本我們有提到說要18到45可能就把各個年齡其實都涵蓋在裡面而符合現代多元發展的一個狀況來看那但是呢我們這樣看起來就是各個年齡層都有它一個保障屬於它的專法在但是我們對於七年長期缺乏專屬的這個法律保障所以\n\n02:54.717 --> 03:16.087\n剛才好像有聽到您也在講說現在行政院現在我們也有這個版本要出來嘛但我們還是要來看一下其實過去政府的一個資源配置其實我們大概會以所謂的這個高依賴族群也就是像兒童啦老年啦為這個優先那因為相比較之下我們會覺得七年他比較有各方面自主的能力所以呢今天\n\n03:17.147 --> 03:37.235\n這個次長也報告了很多相關的這個七年的政策啦計畫啦等等在推動不過看起來有很多其實都是比較輔助性的所以呢我想既然次長你們也認為應該要推動這個制定七年基本法那不曉得現在這個法您認為這個需要制定的理由是什麼然後進行到哪裡了\n\n03:38.015 --> 03:58.449\n我想當然就是跟委員的指教一樣我們大家認為在這個變動的時代這個青年要面對的挑戰其實是比過往的很多世代更大的那怎麼樣在包括在就業創業居住還有身心健康等等的面向照顧他我們認為這是非常非常重要的所以聽起來這麼重要那現在進度到什麼地方了\n\n03:58.629 --> 04:13.363\n各位委員報告我們目前這個布板已經完成了但因為裡面很多條文都牽扯到各個部會要扮演什麼樣的角色所以我們現在目前正在跟各部會在要跟各部會協調所以這個條文大家覺得OK還有地方政府好\n\n04:13.863 --> 04:38.084\n我想這個布板有布板這當然是好事但我們要加緊腳步尤其你剛剛說的各部會還有很多事情要協調一個月內完成好那我想其實這個是這樣子為什麼我們也有這個時效性大家都很在乎這個法因為我想在2016的時候我們看到蔡政府執政的時候其實就有說過要保障青年權利的青年發展法那時候就已經提了可是我們看到哇真的也是延宕很久所以我想\n\n04:39.585 --> 05:01.937\n這個刻不容緩我們一個月內我們要積極把它做完來那當然這本席在這邊要另外提醒也就是說我們現在對於七年的政策其實都散落在這個各部會像剛剛您提的嘛所以缺乏針對七年階段特有問題上面我們綜合性的一個保障比如說像我們今天你剛剛提到低薪啦工時啦租屋啦甚至於職場一些相關的歧視啊心理這個健康等等\n\n05:02.697 --> 05:14.324\n那所以我們一旦如果制定了青年基本法之外我想是要用這個基本法的這個高度跟廣度來做那所以我覺得刻不容緩那一個月之內其實因為散播這麼廣其實我也蠻擔心這時效有沒有辦法趕上所以我們希望能夠積極來做那另外我想一個重\n\n05:20.768 --> 05:42.577\n今天一個重點要跟您討論就是我們關於這一直在討論的行動載具管理在我們校園內我想2023年的時候聯合國的教科文組織就已經呼籲了校園內應該禁止使用智慧型手機因為要藉此而來解決課堂的混亂改善學習並且保護兒童受到網路霸凌的問題這問題大家討論了很久\n\n05:43.997 --> 06:11.282\n所以我們現在看到教育的現狀我們在學生上課的時候使用手機或是智慧型手錶等等教師也都有覺得說是影響了學習的專注力獨立思考能力以及他在教學現場的一些困擾等等過去還有發生如果跟教師之間也許有一些糾紛不同意見看法的時候家長有時候可能會請學生拿手機或智慧型手錶來錄音錄影也造成更加強的一些對立等等\n\n06:12.222 --> 06:31.668\n这些状况我想在教文委员会我们在上个会期也召开过公听会教育部在当时有承诺在今年二月份的时候这个学期开学的时候我们就要来完成修订高中以下学校校园行动载具使用原则当时就有承诺但是呢最近教育部又改口了\n\n06:32.408 --> 06:56.856\n改口說要延宕到114年學年度實施也就是這個九月份但是呢我們看到三月你才在召集大家來開會還在聽取意見公聽會都開過為何這麼慢我跟委員報告事實上是我們是去年十月開公聽會然後今年二月的時候因為我們覺得也要收集學生團體的意見但是你有承諾說今年二月啊就要完成修訂啊這個承諾為什麼跳票\n\n06:58.464 --> 07:14.693\n我們當初是提說2月要提出草案啦那我們目前草案已經提出來了所以我們最近沒有喔當時有說就是2月要完成修正喔我們是提出草案然後那因為我們提出草案為了慎重來我們來討論一下喔所以現在目前學校對於行動載具喔這個管理的規範是不一的啦\n\n07:19.256 --> 07:35.026\n包括有些學校是統一收或者是這個繳那有些學校是完全禁止但也有學校就是說尊重自主這樣所以每個學校狀況不一樣那這造成現場第一線的教室管理非常的困難所以我想請教一下您剛剛也說草案現在出來了\n\n07:35.626 --> 07:53.243\n請問一下修訂的方向目前是朝全國一致性有相關的管理規則那有的話是什麼或者是還是一樣像現在一樣把責任丟給各校各老師去管理是哪一種我們目前其實就是一些重要的原則是所有的學校都應該要採取哪些叫重要的原則譬如說上課時間他就是應該要\n\n07:54.685 --> 08:07.812\n統一保管不能拿出來然後一直到什麼時間什麼樣的情況下他才有機會可以拿出來用所以我們現在草案的大方向是傾向於全國統一管理就是上課時間不能使用是這樣子嗎確定嗎是\n\n08:09.713 --> 08:18.662\n好那我想因為我們看到其實立法院的法治局其實也有提出來就是說我們現在全部都是用行動載具使用原則來做規範這可能會衍生侵犯學生個人財產權的法律爭議\n\n08:25.309 --> 08:39.363\n也會引起學校在執行的時候跟教室在實行的時候引起跟學生跟教室間的一些爭議在所以我在想那我們為什麼不提到告法律的慰藉如果用原則將來如果學生或家長面臨司法告訴有沒有這樣的機會那又應該怎麼辦\n\n08:41.004 --> 09:04.703\n跟委員報告因為目前國民教育法跟高級中等教育法已經有相關的規範所以在那個架構下我們就可以規範學生在這個事情的行為所以目前還沒有需要到修法因為修法可能還要再更久本席在這裡提醒啦這後面如果真的下去總會有一兩個案例萬一面臨到這個司法告訴的時候我覺得老師還是會有壓力在的那另外我想更重要的是這個法\n\n09:05.263 --> 09:29.596\n當然是重要的依據可是呢次長不曉得您知不知道在108年的時候教育部有推動12年國教那這個課程有把科技資訊與媒體素養列為當時的九大核心素養之一那更在112年的3月的時候有公佈數位時代媒體素養教育白皮書那時候也是在潘部長的時代那但是呢我們看起來公佈是公佈了\n\n09:30.657 --> 09:53.627\n是似乎沒有落實也沒有在相關的執行所以呢我們要來達到所謂的培養知情負責及利他的數位公民很重要但卻沒有做那教育部是不是可以把校園行動載具這個管理來做納入到這個推動我們數位公民素養教育計劃那來透過我們的家校合作的指引例如\n\n09:54.167 --> 10:10.683\n除了法之外是不是有什麼辦法有什麼計畫可以跟家長跟老師來說明孩子們要怎麼樣正確去使用這個手機或是智慧型的載具再來還有我們所謂的數位公民那應該怎麼達成不要只有每次提出一個計畫那計畫輪口號就結束了\n\n10:12.888 --> 10:36.901\n我想委員的這個建議非常好,我們會來研議那也跟委員報告台灣的孩子資訊素養在國際的評比上面我們是在排這個前幾名的是第一還是第四目前是排第一的所以我想這個地方永遠都還有我們可以再加強的地方所以委員剛才提到怎麼樣幫忙跟家長來一起來跟家長來教育一家長一起來做這個事情我想我們會待會去研議\n\n10:37.261 --> 10:55.371\n宣導啦你也很難教育家長但宣導啦那我在想喔我剛剛所提的這個喔能不能在一個時間內你提出來我們應該要怎麼做這也是延續之前潘部長的一個想法呀是多久你可以把它提出來我們可能在一個月的時間之內來規劃一下一個月內好不好謝謝市長謝謝委員好謝謝萬美林委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.811,"end":12.094,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們有請葉次長還有我們陳署長好 有請葉次長 陳署長好 次長 今天我們討論青年基本法我想我們來看一下這個背景我們都知道現在台灣即將要邁入超高齡的社會也就是這個數據在65歲以上可能要占到20%左右的人口那但是我們一方面高齡化的社會一方面又少子化的來臨"},{"start":34.585,"end":60.555,"text":"所以呢我們可以看到青年其實在我們國家未來的發展它佔了非常關鍵的位置跟非常關鍵的力量那也是我們社會創新跟經濟動能的一個重要的支柱那這個背景是非常的重要的但是我們在討論立法保障青年之前我想我們今天有許多的版本那包括這個教育部跟專家學院自己都討論過我們針對青年來界定不過呢以上大家不同的版本不同的看法"},{"start":61.095,"end":89.397,"text":"在今年年龄这上面来的界定有18到35啦18到45啦那包括这个亲子会提到的是18到35但是事实上这个年龄的范围其实涵盖了全台大概21.36%如果按照亲子会的这个数据来看不过现在有很多专家学者有提出来说因为我们现在整个社会的变迁很多年轻人不管是延迟就业啦这个延长了这个就学的时间啦生育啦结婚啦都延后了"},{"start":89.737,"end":103.245,"text":"所以事實上七年的階段所謂的七年階段其實應該是更長更多元化去定義它所以我們針對這個七年的年齡的定定今天聽您報告還是以這個所謂的青絲會的版本說18到35不曉得次長您認為幾歲的這個年齡的範圍是比較恰當的"},{"start":107.925,"end":115.714,"text":"跟委員報告因為對我們來講這個年齡涵蓋更多的話可以照顧到更多的人但也坦白講就變成資源會稀釋到也會被稀釋掉我想針對你講的這個部分我比較不認同因為其實因為資源稀釋然後我們就把應該照顧的那個群組變少"},{"start":127.407,"end":154.814,"text":"這好像也不太對所以我覺得針對年齡層這個部分我覺得我們可以再思考一下那我們再來看另外一個背景就我國現在針對未滿12歲的兒童還有這個12歲以上未滿18歲的少年我們有兒少權益保障法這您知道的那對於45歲以上的中高齡跟高齡者我們有中高齡及高齡者就業促進法那麼在上個會期也有55歲以上的壯世代政策及產業發展促進法我們看到每個年齡其實都涵蓋起來了"},{"start":155.874,"end":173.736,"text":"所以為什麼有的版本我們有提到說要18到45可能就把各個年齡其實都涵蓋在裡面而符合現代多元發展的一個狀況來看那但是呢我們這樣看起來就是各個年齡層都有它一個保障屬於它的專法在但是我們對於七年長期缺乏專屬的這個法律保障所以"},{"start":174.717,"end":196.087,"text":"剛才好像有聽到您也在講說現在行政院現在我們也有這個版本要出來嘛但我們還是要來看一下其實過去政府的一個資源配置其實我們大概會以所謂的這個高依賴族群也就是像兒童啦老年啦為這個優先那因為相比較之下我們會覺得七年他比較有各方面自主的能力所以呢今天"},{"start":197.147,"end":217.235,"text":"這個次長也報告了很多相關的這個七年的政策啦計畫啦等等在推動不過看起來有很多其實都是比較輔助性的所以呢我想既然次長你們也認為應該要推動這個制定七年基本法那不曉得現在這個法您認為這個需要制定的理由是什麼然後進行到哪裡了"},{"start":218.015,"end":238.449,"text":"我想當然就是跟委員的指教一樣我們大家認為在這個變動的時代這個青年要面對的挑戰其實是比過往的很多世代更大的那怎麼樣在包括在就業創業居住還有身心健康等等的面向照顧他我們認為這是非常非常重要的所以聽起來這麼重要那現在進度到什麼地方了"},{"start":238.629,"end":253.363,"text":"各位委員報告我們目前這個布板已經完成了但因為裡面很多條文都牽扯到各個部會要扮演什麼樣的角色所以我們現在目前正在跟各部會在要跟各部會協調所以這個條文大家覺得OK還有地方政府好"},{"start":253.863,"end":278.084,"text":"我想這個布板有布板這當然是好事但我們要加緊腳步尤其你剛剛說的各部會還有很多事情要協調一個月內完成好那我想其實這個是這樣子為什麼我們也有這個時效性大家都很在乎這個法因為我想在2016的時候我們看到蔡政府執政的時候其實就有說過要保障青年權利的青年發展法那時候就已經提了可是我們看到哇 真的也是延宕很久所以我想"},{"start":279.585,"end":301.937,"text":"這個刻不容緩我們一個月內我們要積極把它做完來那當然這本席在這邊要另外提醒也就是說我們現在對於七年的政策其實都散落在這個各部會像剛剛您提的嘛所以缺乏針對七年階段特有問題上面我們綜合性的一個保障比如說像我們今天你剛剛提到低薪啦工時啦租屋啦甚至於職場一些相關的歧視啊心理這個健康等等"},{"start":302.697,"end":314.324,"text":"那所以我們一旦如果制定了青年基本法之外我想是要用這個基本法的這個高度跟廣度來做那所以我覺得刻不容緩那一個月之內其實因為散播這麼廣其實我也蠻擔心這時效有沒有辦法趕上所以我們希望能夠積極來做那另外我想一個重"},{"start":320.768,"end":342.577,"text":"今天一個重點要跟您討論就是我們關於這一直在討論的行動載具管理在我們校園內我想2023年的時候聯合國的教科文組織就已經呼籲了校園內應該禁止使用智慧型手機因為要藉此而來解決課堂的混亂改善學習並且保護兒童受到網路霸凌的問題這問題大家討論了很久"},{"start":343.997,"end":371.282,"text":"所以我們現在看到教育的現狀我們在學生上課的時候使用手機或是智慧型手錶等等教師也都有覺得說是影響了學習的專注力獨立思考能力以及他在教學現場的一些困擾等等過去還有發生如果跟教師之間也許有一些糾紛不同意見看法的時候家長有時候可能會請學生拿手機或智慧型手錶來錄音錄影也造成更加強的一些對立等等"},{"start":372.222,"end":391.668,"text":"这些状况我想在教文委员会我们在上个会期也召开过公听会教育部在当时有承诺在今年二月份的时候这个学期开学的时候我们就要来完成修订高中以下学校校园行动载具使用原则当时就有承诺但是呢最近教育部又改口了"},{"start":392.408,"end":416.856,"text":"改口說要延宕到114年學年度實施也就是這個九月份但是呢我們看到三月你才在召集大家來開會還在聽取意見公聽會都開過為何這麼慢我跟委員報告事實上是我們是去年十月開公聽會然後今年二月的時候因為我們覺得也要收集學生團體的意見但是你有承諾說今年二月啊就要完成修訂啊這個承諾為什麼跳票"},{"start":418.464,"end":434.693,"text":"我們當初是提說2月要提出草案啦那我們目前草案已經提出來了所以我們最近沒有喔 當時有說就是2月要完成修正喔我們是提出草案然後那因為我們提出草案為了慎重來 我們來討論一下喔所以現在目前學校對於行動載具喔這個管理的規範是不一的啦"},{"start":439.256,"end":455.026,"text":"包括有些學校是統一收或者是這個繳那有些學校是完全禁止但也有學校就是說尊重自主這樣所以每個學校狀況不一樣那這造成現場第一線的教室管理非常的困難所以我想請教一下您剛剛也說草案現在出來了"},{"start":455.626,"end":473.243,"text":"請問一下修訂的方向目前是朝全國一致性有相關的管理規則那有的話是什麼或者是還是一樣像現在一樣把責任丟給各校各老師去管理是哪一種我們目前其實就是一些重要的原則是所有的學校都應該要採取哪些叫重要的原則譬如說上課時間他就是應該要"},{"start":474.685,"end":487.812,"text":"統一保管不能拿出來然後一直到什麼時間什麼樣的情況下他才有機會可以拿出來用所以我們現在草案的大方向是傾向於全國統一管理就是上課時間不能使用是這樣子嗎確定嗎是"},{"start":489.713,"end":498.662,"text":"好 那我想因為我們看到其實立法院的法治局其實也有提出來就是說我們現在全部都是用行動載具使用原則來做規範這可能會衍生侵犯學生個人財產權的法律爭議"},{"start":505.309,"end":519.363,"text":"也會引起學校在執行的時候跟教室在實行的時候引起跟學生跟教室間的一些爭議在所以我在想那我們為什麼不提到告法律的慰藉如果用原則將來如果學生或家長面臨司法告訴有沒有這樣的機會那又應該怎麼辦"},{"start":521.004,"end":544.703,"text":"跟委員報告因為目前國民教育法跟高級中等教育法已經有相關的規範所以在那個架構下我們就可以規範學生在這個事情的行為所以目前還沒有需要到修法因為修法可能還要再更久本席在這裡提醒啦這後面如果真的下去總會有一兩個案例萬一面臨到這個司法告訴的時候我覺得老師還是會有壓力在的那另外我想更重要的是這個法"},{"start":545.263,"end":569.596,"text":"當然是重要的依據可是呢 次長不曉得您知不知道在108年的時候教育部有推動12年國教那這個課程有把科技資訊與媒體素養列為當時的九大核心素養之一那更在112年的3月的時候有公佈數位時代媒體素養教育白皮書那時候也是在潘部長的時代那但是呢 我們看起來公佈是公佈了"},{"start":570.657,"end":593.627,"text":"是似乎沒有落實也沒有在相關的執行所以呢我們要來達到所謂的培養知情負責及利他的數位公民很重要但卻沒有做那教育部是不是可以把校園行動載具這個管理來做納入到這個推動我們數位公民素養教育計劃那來透過我們的家校合作的指引例如"},{"start":594.167,"end":610.683,"text":"除了法之外是不是有什麼辦法有什麼計畫可以跟家長跟老師來說明孩子們要怎麼樣正確去使用這個手機或是智慧型的載具再來還有我們所謂的數位公民那應該怎麼達成不要只有每次提出一個計畫那計畫輪口號就結束了"},{"start":612.888,"end":636.901,"text":"我想委員的這個建議非常好,我們會來研議那也跟委員報告台灣的孩子資訊素養在國際的評比上面我們是在排這個前幾名的是第一還是第四目前是排第一的所以我想這個地方永遠都還有我們可以再加強的地方所以委員剛才提到怎麼樣幫忙跟家長來一起來跟家長來教育一家長一起來做這個事情我想我們會待會去研議"},{"start":637.261,"end":655.371,"text":"宣導啦 你也很難教育家長 但宣導啦那我在想喔 我剛剛所提的這個喔能不能在一個時間內 你提出來我們應該要怎麼做這也是延續之前潘部長的一個想法呀是多久你可以把它提出來我們可能在一個月的時間之內來規劃一下一個月內 好不好 謝謝市長謝謝委員好 謝謝萬美林委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":184,"blocks":[["萬委員美玲：（9時49分）謝謝主席，有請葉次長還有陳署長。"],["主席：有請葉次長、陳署長。"],["萬委員美玲：次長，今天我們討論青年基本法，我想我們來看一下這個背景。我們都知道現在臺灣即將要邁入超高齡的社會，也就是65歲以上的人口可能要占到20%左右，但是我們一方面邁入高齡化社會，一方面又是少子化的來臨，所以我們可以看到，青年其實在我們國家未來的發展占了非常關鍵的位置跟非常關鍵的力量，也是我們社會創新跟經濟動能一個重要的支柱，這個背景是非常重要的。","但是我們在討論立法保障青年之前，我們今天有許多的版本，包括教育部跟專家學者自己都討論過要如何來界定青年，不過大家不同的版本有不同的看法，就青年在年齡上面的界定有18到35，也有18到45，包括青諮會提到是18到35，但事實上這個年齡的範圍，如果按照青諮會的數據來看，其實涵蓋了全臺大概21.36%。不過現在有很多專家學者提出，我們現在整個社會的變遷，很多年輕人因為延長就學的時間，不管是就業、生育、結婚都延後了，所以事實上所謂青年的階段應該是更長、更多元化去加以定義。所以，針對青年年齡的訂定，今天聽您報告，還是以所謂青諮會的版本說是18到35，不曉得次長您認為，青年的年齡範圍到幾歲是比較恰當的？"],["葉次長丙成：跟委員報告，對我們來講，當然年齡涵蓋更廣的話可以照顧到更多的人，但坦白講也就變成資源會被稀釋掉，所以……"],["萬委員美玲：好。次長，針對你講的這部分，我比較不認同因為擔心資源稀釋，然後我們就把應該照顧的群組變少，這樣好像也不太對，所以我覺得針對年齡層這個部分，我覺得我們可以再思考一下。","我們再來看另外一個背景，我國現在針對未滿12歲的兒童，還有12歲以上未滿18歲的少年，我們有兒少權益保障法，這個您知道的；對於45歲以上的中高齡跟高齡者，我們有中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法；在上個會期也有55歲以上的壯世代政策及產業發展促進法，我們看到每個年齡其實都涵蓋起來了，所以為什麼有的版本對於青年年齡的界定是18到45，可能就是希望把各個年齡其實都涵蓋在裡面，以符合現在多元發展的狀況。我們這樣看起來就是各個年齡層都有一個保障，都有屬於他的專法在，但是我們對於青年長期缺乏專屬的法律保障，所以剛才好像有聽到您也在講說，現在行政院也有版本要出來嘛？"],["葉次長丙成：對。"],["萬委員美玲：我們還是要來看一下，其實過去政府的資源配置，我們大概會以所謂的高依賴族群，也就是像兒童、老年為優先，因為相比較之下，我們會覺得青年比較有各方面自主的能力，今天次長也報告了很多相關的青年的政策、計畫等等在推動，不過，看起來有很多其實都是比較輔助性的，所以我想，既然次長你們也認為應該要制定青年基本法，不曉得現在您認為需要制定這個法的理由是什麼？然後進行到哪裡了？"],["葉次長丙成：我想當然就是跟委員指教的一樣，就是我們大家都認為在這個變動的時代，青年面對的挑戰其實是比過往的很多世代更大的，怎麼樣包括在就業、創業、居住還有身心健康等等的這些面向去照顧青年，我們認為這是非常、非常重要的。"],["萬委員美玲：是，聽起來這麼重要，那現在進度到什麼地方了？"],["葉次長丙成：跟委員報告，我們的部版已經完成了，但因為裡面很多條文都牽扯到各個部會要扮演什麼樣的角色，所以我們目前正在跟各部會協調，讓各部會評估部版的條文大家覺得O不OK，還有地方政府……"],["萬委員美玲：好。我想有部版這當然是好事，但我們要加緊腳步，尤其您剛剛說的各部會還有很多事情要協調嘛……"],["葉次長丙成：是，預計一個月內完成協調。"],["萬委員美玲：一個月內完成？好。為什麼此事我們也有時效性的要求，大家都很在乎這個法，因為我們看到在2016年蔡政府執政的時候，就已經提了要保障青年權益的青年發展法，可是我們看到真的也是延宕很久，所以我想此事刻不容緩，一個月內我們要積極把它做完。當然本席在這邊要另外提醒，我們現在對於青年的政策其實都散落在各部會，缺乏針對青年階段特有問題的綜合性保障，比如說像你剛剛提到的低薪、工時、租屋，甚至於職場相關的歧視、心理健康等等，所以一旦我們要制定青年基本法，我想是要用基本法的高度跟廣度來做，所以我覺得此事刻不容緩，一個月之內，因為散布這麼廣，其實我也蠻擔心時效有沒有辦法趕上，所以我們希望教育部能夠積極來做。","另外，今天我還有一個重點要跟您討論，就是有關我們一直在討論的校園內的行動載具的管理。2023年的時候，聯合國的教科文組織已經呼籲，校園內應該禁止使用智慧型手機，因為要藉此來解決課堂的混亂，改善學習並且保護兒童受到網路霸凌的問題。這個問題大家討論了很久，所以我們現在看到教育的現狀，學生在上課的時候使用手機或智慧型手錶等，教師也都有覺得是影響學習專注力、獨立思考能力，以及他在教學現場一些困擾等，過去還有發生如果跟教師之間也許有些糾紛、不同意見、看法的時候，家長有時候可能會請學生就拿手機或智慧型手錶來錄音、錄影，更加強一些對立等，這些狀況我想教文委員會在上個會期也召開過公聽會，教育部在當時有承諾今年2月份這個學期開學的時候，就要完成修訂高中以下學校校園行動載具使用原則，當時就有承諾，但是最近教育部又改口了，改口說要延宕到114年學年度實施，也就是9月份，但是我們看到3月你才在召集大家來開會，還在聽取意見，公聽會都開過，為何這麼慢？"],["葉次長丙成：跟委員報告，事實上我們是去年10月開公聽會，今年2月的時候因為我們覺得也要蒐集學生團體的意見。"],["萬委員美玲：但是你有承諾今年2月就要完成修訂啊！"],["葉次長丙成：是、是。"],["萬委員美玲：這個承諾為什麼跳票？"],["葉次長丙成：我們當初是2月要提出草案，那目前草案已經提出來了，所以我們最近……"],["萬委員美玲：沒有，當時有說就是2月要完成修正喔！"],["葉次長丙成：我們是提出草案，因為提出草案為了慎重，需要蒐集相關意見……"],["萬委員美玲：好，我們來討論一下，所以目前學校對於行動載具管理的規範是不一的。"],["葉次長丙成：嗯、嗯。"],["萬委員美玲：包括有些學校是統一收或繳，有些學校是完全禁止，但也有學校就是說尊重自主，所以每個學校狀況不一樣，造成現場第一線教師管理非常困難，所以我想請教一下，您剛剛也說草案現在出來了。"],["葉次長丙成：是。"],["萬委員美玲：請問修訂的方向目前是朝全國一致性有相關管理規則，有的話是什麼？或還是像現在一樣把責任丟給各校、各老師去管理？是哪一種？"],["葉次長丙成：我們目前就是一些重要的原則，是所有的學校都應該要採納。"],["萬委員美玲：哪些叫重要的原則？"],["葉次長丙成：比如說上課時間就是應該要統一保管，不能拿出來，一直到什麼時間、什麼樣情況下他才有機會可以拿出來用，這些原則……"],["萬委員美玲：所以我們現在草案的大方向是傾向於全國統一管理，就是上課時間不能使用，是這樣子嗎？"],["葉次長丙成：是、是。"],["萬委員美玲：確定嗎？"],["葉次長丙成：是。"],["萬委員美玲：好，因為我們看到立法院法制局其實也有提出來，就是我們現在全部都是用行動載具使用原則來做規範，這可能會衍生侵犯學生個人財產權的法律爭議，也會引起學校跟教師在執行的時候，引起學生跟教師之間的一些爭議，所以我在想為什麼不提高到法律的位階？如果用原則，將來學生或家長面臨司法告訴，有沒有這樣的機會，那又應該怎麼辦？"],["葉次長丙成：跟委員報告，因為目前國民教育法跟高級中等教育法已經有相關的規範，所以在那個架構下我們就可以規範學生在這個事情的行為，所以目前還沒有需要到修法，因為修法可能還要再更久。"],["萬委員美玲：本席在這裡提醒，後面如果真的下去，總會有一、兩個案例，萬一面臨到司法告訴的時候，我覺得老師還是會有壓力在的。另外我想更重要的是，這個法當然是重要的依據，可是次長不曉得您知不知道，在108年的時候教育部有推動十二年國教，這個課程有把科技資訊與媒體素養列為當時的九大核心素養之一，更在112年3月有公布數位時代媒體素養教育白皮書，那時候也是在潘部長的時代，但是我們看起來公布是公布了，但是似乎沒有落實也沒有相關的執行，所以我們要來達到所謂的培養知情、負責及利他的數位公民很重要，但卻沒有做，教育部是不是可以把校園行動載具管理納入推動數位公民素養教育計畫？透過家校合作指引，例如除了法之外，是不是有什麼辦法、有什麼計畫可以跟家長、跟老師說明孩子們要怎麼樣正確去使用手機或智慧型載具？再來，所謂的數位公民應該怎麼達成？不要只有每次提出一個計畫，計畫淪為口號就結束了。"],["葉次長丙成：我想委員這個建議非常好，我們會來研議。也跟委員報告，臺灣孩子的資訊素養在國際評比上，我們是排在前幾名的，目前是排第一名，但我想這個地方永遠都還有我們可以再加強的，所以委員剛剛提到怎麼樣教育家長一起來做這個事情，我們會帶回去研議……"],["萬委員美玲：宣導啦！你也很難教育家長。"],["葉次長丙成：是，宣導、宣導。"],["萬委員美玲：但我剛剛所提的這個，你能不能在一個時間內提出來我們應該要怎麼做，這也是延續之前潘部長的一個想法。"],["葉次長丙成：是。"],["萬委員美玲：多久你可以把它提出來？"],["葉次長丙成：我們可能在一個月的時間之內來規劃。"],["萬委員美玲：一個月內，好不好？"],["葉次長丙成：好。"],["萬委員美玲：謝謝次長。"],["葉次長丙成：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝萬美玲委員。","接下來請林沛祥委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":310,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-2","speakers":["林宜瑾","黃捷","林楚茵","陳秀寳","吳沛憶","葛如鈞","羅廷瑋","林德福","柯志恩","萬美玲","林沛祥","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","郭昱晴","葉元之","范雲","吳思瑤","邱志偉","陳培瑜","李坤城"],"page_start":253,"meetingDate":["2025-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1142601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142601_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；二、審查委員林楚茵等21人擬具「青年基\n本法草案」案；三、審查委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；四、審查委員吳思瑤等\n47人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；五、審查委員陳培瑜等17人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；六、\n審查委員范雲等16人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；七、審查委員陳秀寳等21人擬具「青年基本法\n草案」案；八、審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；九、審查委員王美惠等17人\n擬具「青年基本法草案」案；十、審查委員郭昱晴等18人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；十一、審\n查委員林月琴等19人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；十二、審查委員葛如鈞等19人擬具「青年基本\n法草案」案；十三、審查委員李坤城等19人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；十四、審查委員魯明哲\n等17人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；十五、審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；\n十六、審查委員葉元之等 20 人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；十七、審查委員林德福等 20 人擬具\n「青年發展基本法草案」案；十八、審查委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「青年基本法草案」案 (僅進行\n詢答)","agenda_id":"1142601_00009"}}}