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00:00:57,463\n那今年二月四日的永殷高教基之所以受到特別的關注那主要是因為有兩個罕見的現象這邊本席特別有找出一個問題第一個是最回的永殷高教基去年的六月二十一號才服役\n\n4\n00:00:58,274 --> 00:01:22,430\n那服役不到一年就出事這種情況比較罕見那第二個罕見是在雙發發動機失效這個發生的機率也比較罕見那本席就以第一個罕見的情況來詢問一下部長出廠不到一年的飛機就出事這是不是表示\n\n5\n00:01:23,090 --> 00:01:48,051\n新機出廠的檢查有缺失或是空間地形對於新機不夠熟悉在平時的維護和起飛前的檢修未能確實制定出針對擁陰高較機的需求條件以上請問一下我們部長等一下我們參謀長也詢答\n\n6\n00:01:51,127 --> 00:02:16,764\n我想確實這個它這個飛行的時數還相當的短那雙發動機如果確認同時失效的話這也確實比較罕見我想我們都同意這樣的一個所以黑盒子現在已經打到上來我們要確實的去查明這個造勢的原因這個是當然是很必要的那\n\n7\n00:02:18,385 --> 00:02:26,496\n我們當然因此我們也先就這個機械因素的這個部分做了一個特檢\n\n8\n00:02:27,406 --> 00:02:49,960\n那在這個特檢沒有問題的情況之下我們循序的來進行這樣子的一個逐步回到一個正常的訓練也是必要的但是黑惑子既然這些相關的部分都已經打到上來之後我們會盡快的來釐清這個肇事的原因到底是什麼好曹部長\n\n9\n00:02:53,573 --> 00:03:19,668\n向委員報告我們所有飛機的出廠之後的所有的接收都一定都是用最嚴謹的態度那個程序絕對不會有任何的遺漏這是第一點向委員向召委報告第二個我們所有各型機的相關修為部都有相關的紀令都是依照技術命令在執行各項的\n\n10\n00:03:21,450 --> 00:03:43,788\n檢查那這一次的為什麼特別如列四類12項這個因為每一個項目的檢查時間軸是並不同的那因為這一次的失事我們就機械因素特別跟漢祥還有我們本軍的相關專業人員共同探討出來之後有可能是這12項的\n\n11\n00:03:46,751 --> 00:04:02,881\n所以我們把它爐裂特別爐裂出來做一次性的特別檢查好本市看了今天的報告這是天安特檢針對咏陰高焦跡進行4類第12項的機械檢查而且情況都正常\n\n12\n00:04:05,163 --> 00:04:18,158\n但是本席強調的是不只是機械檢查在機械都沒有問題的情況之下乃要持續找出一個原因因此針對檢查作業本身是否也有\n\n13\n00:04:19,398 --> 00:04:35,983\n進行的檢討所以因此在漢翔目前在持續交貨永營高校機根據今天的報告還有23架的飛機要交貨空軍和漢翔二夜失事的事件之後\n\n14\n00:04:37,753 --> 00:04:52,349\n是否有對新機出廠前的檢查作業進行檢討或優化這是一個很大的問題不少媒體報導都在擔心發動機是否有品質不佳的問題請問一下我們部長\n\n15\n00:04:55,212 --> 00:05:07,749\n有可能性那如果最後正式發動機的良率問題是否會向供應商請求求賞\n\n16\n00:05:09,663 --> 00:05:34,263\n如果是屬於這個原廠提供的這個設備有問題的話我們依照相關的規定這個部分當然是要由依照這個規則原廠然後依照企業中的這個相關的條款向漢雄公司求償那漢雄公司應該可以向原廠來求償如果查證之後問題是在供應商的話我們國\n\n17\n00:05:36,284 --> 00:06:00,645\n國防部一定要請求求償這是本市的要求那關於交貨的延遲根據國防法第22條指出結合民間力量發展國防科技工業獲得武器裝備以自製為優先向外採購的時候落實技術移轉達成獨立自主之國防建設請問一下我們積極推動國機國造\n\n18\n00:06:04,908 --> 00:06:26,568\n國建國造為的目的是什麼目的就是我們針對美國經過遭交貨這個延宕的問題第一個一直是國軍的痛國機國造國建國造希望能達到國防自主最主要的原因也是希望能夠\n\n19\n00:06:28,510 --> 00:06:42,506\n不要受質疑別人結果在於國機國造發生交貨延遲追究的原因是因為外購部分的部件延遲交貨部長會不會覺得\n\n20\n00:06:44,509 --> 00:06:59,648\n就連國際國造都無法擺脫外購延時交貨的陰影真的是情何以堪所以我們在關鍵設備技術還是掌握在別人手上就算一架飛機自制力超過80%\n\n21\n00:07:01,931 --> 00:07:18,291\n這個所謂國機國照還是帶有自欺欺人的色彩政府應該把精力都放在這個追虛的這樣的一個虛假那國機國照很難真正的務實進步所以這個部分你們要做一個\n\n22\n00:07:20,193 --> 00:07:36,325\n審慎的一個討論落實技術轉移解決外購系統無法準時交貨問題的方式就是中科院與漢翔同步啟動國內赤字的方案那意思就是\n\n23\n00:07:38,851 --> 00:07:52,234\n液壓油箱、輪、槍門、門字、洞氣及緊急、沖壓、關、斷、辦等三項國內有自治的能力那為什麼既然強調國機國造為什麼我們有自治的能力還需要外購、對外採購?請問\n\n24\n00:08:04,417 --> 00:08:26,110\n請中科院委員好我是中科院副院長在這邊跟委員做簡單的說明我們一切的製造包含了我們例如我們總共這個高焦機有149個零件到貨以後我們會有90個這個AEI就是90個地面的檢測那原來我們都希望能夠用原廠的東西能夠達到最好的品質\n\n25\n00:08:26,690 --> 00:08:46,124\n但是原廠就是因為有交貨落後的問題那我們又因為這個國機國造的這個政策所以我們把能夠很快的能夠達成空軍交貨的重要的項目就如同在報告裡面所提的七項裡面的三項這是我們最能夠解決問題的部分我們先優先解決當然整個\n\n26\n00:08:46,684 --> 00:09:01,911\n部分能夠國機國造這絕對是我們跟空軍一樣的立場但是我們為了要解決這個量產落後的問題我們先把能夠做的就是這三項我們能夠先自製我們先來完成國機國造是我們自製的一個方針沒有錯\n\n27\n00:09:02,851 --> 00:09:27,709\n但是我們內部的引擎裡面是我們向外採購跟美國採購所以如果真正國際國造的話應該連引擎都是國內來製造出來的而不是對外採購這不是說今天我們對外好像我們很多的國內的百姓都認為說國際國造就是我們創造的但是今天我們分兩個階段\n\n28\n00:09:30,174 --> 00:09:58,069\n永英高校機的外殼就是我們國內國機自製但內殼裡面的引擎就是證明這個引擎就是向美國採購的所以我們很多地方就是受制於別人的立場我相信這個要跟國內的國人要說清楚不要說國機國造好像就是完整的就是我們國內製造出來的以上謝謝\n\n29\n00:09:59,711 --> 00:09:59,731\n好謝偉\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n690\t1295\t有請顧部長\n9286\t32967\t是 黃委員好你好有關於這個永英的高教基的失事的問題也是目前大家所探討的因為現在我們了解到我們要把問題找出來當然我們也要檢討出來因為如果不把問題找出來的話未來更多的問題就會層出不曉\n34178\t57463\t那今年二月四日的永殷高教基之所以受到特別的關注那主要是因為有兩個罕見的現象這邊本席特別有找出一個問題第一個是最回的永殷高教基去年的六月二十一號才服役\n58274\t82430\t那服役不到一年就出事這種情況比較罕見那第二個罕見是在雙發發動機失效這個發生的機率也比較罕見那本席就以第一個罕見的情況來詢問一下部長出廠不到一年的飛機就出事這是不是表示\n83090\t108051\t新機出廠的檢查有缺失或是空間地形對於新機不夠熟悉在平時的維護和起飛前的檢修未能確實制定出針對擁陰高較機的需求條件以上請問一下我們部長等一下我們參謀長也詢答\n111127\t136764\t我想確實這個它這個飛行的時數還相當的短那雙發動機如果確認同時失效的話這也確實比較罕見我想我們都同意這樣的一個所以黑盒子現在已經打到上來我們要確實的去查明這個造勢的原因這個是當然是很必要的那\n138385\t146496\t我們當然因此我們也先就這個機械因素的這個部分做了一個特檢\n147406\t169960\t那在這個特檢沒有問題的情況之下我們循序的來進行這樣子的一個逐步回到一個正常的訓練也是必要的但是黑惑子既然這些相關的部分都已經打到上來之後我們會盡快的來釐清這個肇事的原因到底是什麼好 曹部長\n173573\t199668\t向委員報告我們所有飛機的出廠之後的所有的接收都一定都是用最嚴謹的態度那個程序絕對不會有任何的遺漏這是第一點向委員向召委報告第二個我們所有各型機的相關修為部都有相關的紀令都是依照技術命令在執行各項的\n201450\t223788\t檢查那這一次的為什麼特別如列四類12項這個因為每一個項目的檢查時間軸是並不同的那因為這一次的失事我們就機械因素特別跟漢祥還有我們本軍的相關專業人員共同探討出來之後有可能是這12項的\n226751\t242881\t所以我們把它爐裂 特別爐裂出來做一次性的特別檢查好 本市看了今天的報告這是天安特檢針對咏陰高焦跡進行4類第12項的機械檢查而且情況都正常\n245163\t258158\t但是本席強調的是不只是機械檢查在機械都沒有問題的情況之下乃要持續找出一個原因因此針對檢查作業本身是否也有\n259398\t275983\t進行的檢討所以因此在漢翔目前在持續交貨永營高校機根據今天的報告還有23架的飛機要交貨空軍和漢翔二夜失事的事件之後\n277753\t292349\t是否有對新機出廠前的檢查作業進行檢討或優化這是一個很大的問題不少媒體報導都在擔心發動機是否有品質不佳的問題請問一下我們部長\n295212\t307749\t有可能性那如果最後正式發動機的良率問題是否會向供應商請求求賞\n309663\t334263\t如果是屬於這個原廠提供的這個設備有問題的話我們依照相關的規定這個部分當然是要由依照這個規則原廠然後依照企業中的這個相關的條款向漢雄公司求償那漢雄公司應該可以向原廠來求償如果查證之後問題是在供應商的話我們國\n336284\t360645\t國防部一定要請求求償這是本市的要求那關於交貨的延遲根據國防法第22條指出結合民間力量發展國防科技工業獲得武器裝備以自製為優先向外採購的時候落實技術移轉達成獨立自主之國防建設請問一下我們積極推動國機國造\n364908\t386568\t國建國造為的目的是什麼目的就是我們針對美國經過遭交貨這個延宕的問題第一個一直是國軍的痛國機國造國建國造希望能達到國防自主最主要的原因也是希望能夠\n388510\t402506\t不要受質疑別人結果在於國機國造發生交貨延遲追究的原因是因為外購部分的部件延遲交貨部長會不會覺得\n404509\t419648\t就連國際國造都無法擺脫外購延時交貨的陰影真的是情何以堪所以我們在關鍵設備技術還是掌握在別人手上就算一架飛機自制力超過80%\n421931\t438291\t這個所謂國機國照還是帶有自欺欺人的色彩政府應該把精力都放在這個追虛的這樣的一個虛假那國機國照很難真正的務實進步所以這個部分你們要做一個\n440193\t456325\t審慎的一個討論落實技術轉移解決外購系統無法準時交貨問題的方式就是中科院與漢翔同步啟動國內赤字的方案那意思就是\n458851\t472234\t液壓油箱、輪、槍門、門字、洞氣及緊急、沖壓、關、斷、辦等三項國內有自治的能力那為什麼既然強調國機國造為什麼我們有自治的能力還需要外購、對外採購?請問\n484417\t506110\t請中科院 委員好 我是中科院副院長在這邊跟委員做簡單的說明我們一切的製造包含了我們例如我們總共這個高焦機有149個零件到貨以後我們會有90個這個AEI就是90個地面的檢測那原來我們都希望能夠用原廠的東西能夠達到最好的品質\n506690\t526124\t但是原廠就是因為有交貨落後的問題那我們又因為這個國機國造的這個政策所以我們把能夠很快的能夠達成空軍交貨的重要的項目就如同在報告裡面所提的七項裡面的三項這是我們最能夠解決問題的部分我們先優先解決當然整個\n526684\t541911\t部分能夠國機國造這絕對是我們跟空軍一樣的立場但是我們為了要解決這個量產落後的問題我們先把能夠做的就是這三項我們能夠先自製我們先來完成國機國造是我們自製的一個方針沒有錯\n542851\t567709\t但是我們內部的引擎裡面是我們向外採購跟美國採購所以如果真正國際國造的話應該連引擎都是國內來製造出來的而不是對外採購這不是說今天我們對外好像我們很多的國內的百姓都認為說國際國造就是我們創造的但是今天我們分兩個階段\n570174\t598069\t永英高校機的外殼就是我們國內國機自製但內殼裡面的引擎就是證明這個引擎就是向美國採購的所以我們很多地方就是受制於別人的立場我相信這個要跟國內的國人要說清楚不要說國機國造好像就是完整的就是我們國內製造出來的以上 謝謝\n599711\t599731\t好 謝偉\n","txt":"有請顧部長\n是 黃委員好你好有關於這個永英的高教基的失事的問題也是目前大家所探討的因為現在我們了解到我們要把問題找出來當然我們也要檢討出來因為如果不把問題找出來的話未來更多的問題就會層出不曉\n那今年二月四日的永殷高教基之所以受到特別的關注那主要是因為有兩個罕見的現象這邊本席特別有找出一個問題第一個是最回的永殷高教基去年的六月二十一號才服役\n那服役不到一年就出事這種情況比較罕見那第二個罕見是在雙發發動機失效這個發生的機率也比較罕見那本席就以第一個罕見的情況來詢問一下部長出廠不到一年的飛機就出事這是不是表示\n新機出廠的檢查有缺失或是空間地形對於新機不夠熟悉在平時的維護和起飛前的檢修未能確實制定出針對擁陰高較機的需求條件以上請問一下我們部長等一下我們參謀長也詢答\n我想確實這個它這個飛行的時數還相當的短那雙發動機如果確認同時失效的話這也確實比較罕見我想我們都同意這樣的一個所以黑盒子現在已經打到上來我們要確實的去查明這個造勢的原因這個是當然是很必要的那\n我們當然因此我們也先就這個機械因素的這個部分做了一個特檢\n那在這個特檢沒有問題的情況之下我們循序的來進行這樣子的一個逐步回到一個正常的訓練也是必要的但是黑惑子既然這些相關的部分都已經打到上來之後我們會盡快的來釐清這個肇事的原因到底是什麼好 曹部長\n向委員報告我們所有飛機的出廠之後的所有的接收都一定都是用最嚴謹的態度那個程序絕對不會有任何的遺漏這是第一點向委員向召委報告第二個我們所有各型機的相關修為部都有相關的紀令都是依照技術命令在執行各項的\n檢查那這一次的為什麼特別如列四類12項這個因為每一個項目的檢查時間軸是並不同的那因為這一次的失事我們就機械因素特別跟漢祥還有我們本軍的相關專業人員共同探討出來之後有可能是這12項的\n所以我們把它爐裂 特別爐裂出來做一次性的特別檢查好 本市看了今天的報告這是天安特檢針對咏陰高焦跡進行4類第12項的機械檢查而且情況都正常\n但是本席強調的是不只是機械檢查在機械都沒有問題的情況之下乃要持續找出一個原因因此針對檢查作業本身是否也有\n進行的檢討所以因此在漢翔目前在持續交貨永營高校機根據今天的報告還有23架的飛機要交貨空軍和漢翔二夜失事的事件之後\n是否有對新機出廠前的檢查作業進行檢討或優化這是一個很大的問題不少媒體報導都在擔心發動機是否有品質不佳的問題請問一下我們部長\n有可能性那如果最後正式發動機的良率問題是否會向供應商請求求賞\n如果是屬於這個原廠提供的這個設備有問題的話我們依照相關的規定這個部分當然是要由依照這個規則原廠然後依照企業中的這個相關的條款向漢雄公司求償那漢雄公司應該可以向原廠來求償如果查證之後問題是在供應商的話我們國\n國防部一定要請求求償這是本市的要求那關於交貨的延遲根據國防法第22條指出結合民間力量發展國防科技工業獲得武器裝備以自製為優先向外採購的時候落實技術移轉達成獨立自主之國防建設請問一下我們積極推動國機國造\n國建國造為的目的是什麼目的就是我們針對美國經過遭交貨這個延宕的問題第一個一直是國軍的痛國機國造國建國造希望能達到國防自主最主要的原因也是希望能夠\n不要受質疑別人結果在於國機國造發生交貨延遲追究的原因是因為外購部分的部件延遲交貨部長會不會覺得\n就連國際國造都無法擺脫外購延時交貨的陰影真的是情何以堪所以我們在關鍵設備技術還是掌握在別人手上就算一架飛機自制力超過80%\n這個所謂國機國照還是帶有自欺欺人的色彩政府應該把精力都放在這個追虛的這樣的一個虛假那國機國照很難真正的務實進步所以這個部分你們要做一個\n審慎的一個討論落實技術轉移解決外購系統無法準時交貨問題的方式就是中科院與漢翔同步啟動國內赤字的方案那意思就是\n液壓油箱、輪、槍門、門字、洞氣及緊急、沖壓、關、斷、辦等三項國內有自治的能力那為什麼既然強調國機國造為什麼我們有自治的能力還需要外購、對外採購?請問\n請中科院 委員好 我是中科院副院長在這邊跟委員做簡單的說明我們一切的製造包含了我們例如我們總共這個高焦機有149個零件到貨以後我們會有90個這個AEI就是90個地面的檢測那原來我們都希望能夠用原廠的東西能夠達到最好的品質\n但是原廠就是因為有交貨落後的問題那我們又因為這個國機國造的這個政策所以我們把能夠很快的能夠達成空軍交貨的重要的項目就如同在報告裡面所提的七項裡面的三項這是我們最能夠解決問題的部分我們先優先解決當然整個\n部分能夠國機國造這絕對是我們跟空軍一樣的立場但是我們為了要解決這個量產落後的問題我們先把能夠做的就是這三項我們能夠先自製我們先來完成國機國造是我們自製的一個方針沒有錯\n但是我們內部的引擎裡面是我們向外採購跟美國採購所以如果真正國際國造的話應該連引擎都是國內來製造出來的而不是對外採購這不是說今天我們對外好像我們很多的國內的百姓都認為說國際國造就是我們創造的但是今天我們分兩個階段\n永英高校機的外殼就是我們國內國機自製但內殼裡面的引擎就是證明這個引擎就是向美國採購的所以我們很多地方就是受制於別人的立場我相信這個要跟國內的國人要說清楚不要說國機國造好像就是完整的就是我們國內製造出來的以上 謝謝\n好 謝偉\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.690 --> 00:01.295\n有請顧部長\n\n00:09.286 --> 00:32.967\n是黃委員好你好有關於這個永英的高教基的失事的問題也是目前大家所探討的因為現在我們了解到我們要把問題找出來當然我們也要檢討出來因為如果不把問題找出來的話未來更多的問題就會層出不曉\n\n00:34.178 --> 00:57.463\n那今年二月四日的永殷高教基之所以受到特別的關注那主要是因為有兩個罕見的現象這邊本席特別有找出一個問題第一個是最回的永殷高教基去年的六月二十一號才服役\n\n00:58.274 --> 01:22.430\n那服役不到一年就出事這種情況比較罕見那第二個罕見是在雙發發動機失效這個發生的機率也比較罕見那本席就以第一個罕見的情況來詢問一下部長出廠不到一年的飛機就出事這是不是表示\n\n01:23.090 --> 01:48.051\n新機出廠的檢查有缺失或是空間地形對於新機不夠熟悉在平時的維護和起飛前的檢修未能確實制定出針對擁陰高較機的需求條件以上請問一下我們部長等一下我們參謀長也詢答\n\n01:51.127 --> 02:16.764\n我想確實這個它這個飛行的時數還相當的短那雙發動機如果確認同時失效的話這也確實比較罕見我想我們都同意這樣的一個所以黑盒子現在已經打到上來我們要確實的去查明這個造勢的原因這個是當然是很必要的那\n\n02:18.385 --> 02:26.496\n我們當然因此我們也先就這個機械因素的這個部分做了一個特檢\n\n02:27.406 --> 02:49.960\n那在這個特檢沒有問題的情況之下我們循序的來進行這樣子的一個逐步回到一個正常的訓練也是必要的但是黑惑子既然這些相關的部分都已經打到上來之後我們會盡快的來釐清這個肇事的原因到底是什麼好曹部長\n\n02:53.573 --> 03:19.668\n向委員報告我們所有飛機的出廠之後的所有的接收都一定都是用最嚴謹的態度那個程序絕對不會有任何的遺漏這是第一點向委員向召委報告第二個我們所有各型機的相關修為部都有相關的紀令都是依照技術命令在執行各項的\n\n03:21.450 --> 03:43.788\n檢查那這一次的為什麼特別如列四類12項這個因為每一個項目的檢查時間軸是並不同的那因為這一次的失事我們就機械因素特別跟漢祥還有我們本軍的相關專業人員共同探討出來之後有可能是這12項的\n\n03:46.751 --> 04:02.881\n所以我們把它爐裂特別爐裂出來做一次性的特別檢查好本市看了今天的報告這是天安特檢針對咏陰高焦跡進行4類第12項的機械檢查而且情況都正常\n\n04:05.163 --> 04:18.158\n但是本席強調的是不只是機械檢查在機械都沒有問題的情況之下乃要持續找出一個原因因此針對檢查作業本身是否也有\n\n04:19.398 --> 04:35.983\n進行的檢討所以因此在漢翔目前在持續交貨永營高校機根據今天的報告還有23架的飛機要交貨空軍和漢翔二夜失事的事件之後\n\n04:37.753 --> 04:52.349\n是否有對新機出廠前的檢查作業進行檢討或優化這是一個很大的問題不少媒體報導都在擔心發動機是否有品質不佳的問題請問一下我們部長\n\n04:55.212 --> 05:07.749\n有可能性那如果最後正式發動機的良率問題是否會向供應商請求求賞\n\n05:09.663 --> 05:34.263\n如果是屬於這個原廠提供的這個設備有問題的話我們依照相關的規定這個部分當然是要由依照這個規則原廠然後依照企業中的這個相關的條款向漢雄公司求償那漢雄公司應該可以向原廠來求償如果查證之後問題是在供應商的話我們國\n\n05:36.284 --> 06:00.645\n國防部一定要請求求償這是本市的要求那關於交貨的延遲根據國防法第22條指出結合民間力量發展國防科技工業獲得武器裝備以自製為優先向外採購的時候落實技術移轉達成獨立自主之國防建設請問一下我們積極推動國機國造\n\n06:04.908 --> 06:26.568\n國建國造為的目的是什麼目的就是我們針對美國經過遭交貨這個延宕的問題第一個一直是國軍的痛國機國造國建國造希望能達到國防自主最主要的原因也是希望能夠\n\n06:28.510 --> 06:42.506\n不要受質疑別人結果在於國機國造發生交貨延遲追究的原因是因為外購部分的部件延遲交貨部長會不會覺得\n\n06:44.509 --> 06:59.648\n就連國際國造都無法擺脫外購延時交貨的陰影真的是情何以堪所以我們在關鍵設備技術還是掌握在別人手上就算一架飛機自制力超過80%\n\n07:01.931 --> 07:18.291\n這個所謂國機國照還是帶有自欺欺人的色彩政府應該把精力都放在這個追虛的這樣的一個虛假那國機國照很難真正的務實進步所以這個部分你們要做一個\n\n07:20.193 --> 07:36.325\n審慎的一個討論落實技術轉移解決外購系統無法準時交貨問題的方式就是中科院與漢翔同步啟動國內赤字的方案那意思就是\n\n07:38.851 --> 07:52.234\n液壓油箱、輪、槍門、門字、洞氣及緊急、沖壓、關、斷、辦等三項國內有自治的能力那為什麼既然強調國機國造為什麼我們有自治的能力還需要外購、對外採購?請問\n\n08:04.417 --> 08:26.110\n請中科院委員好我是中科院副院長在這邊跟委員做簡單的說明我們一切的製造包含了我們例如我們總共這個高焦機有149個零件到貨以後我們會有90個這個AEI就是90個地面的檢測那原來我們都希望能夠用原廠的東西能夠達到最好的品質\n\n08:26.690 --> 08:46.124\n但是原廠就是因為有交貨落後的問題那我們又因為這個國機國造的這個政策所以我們把能夠很快的能夠達成空軍交貨的重要的項目就如同在報告裡面所提的七項裡面的三項這是我們最能夠解決問題的部分我們先優先解決當然整個\n\n08:46.684 --> 09:01.911\n部分能夠國機國造這絕對是我們跟空軍一樣的立場但是我們為了要解決這個量產落後的問題我們先把能夠做的就是這三項我們能夠先自製我們先來完成國機國造是我們自製的一個方針沒有錯\n\n09:02.851 --> 09:27.709\n但是我們內部的引擎裡面是我們向外採購跟美國採購所以如果真正國際國造的話應該連引擎都是國內來製造出來的而不是對外採購這不是說今天我們對外好像我們很多的國內的百姓都認為說國際國造就是我們創造的但是今天我們分兩個階段\n\n09:30.174 --> 09:58.069\n永英高校機的外殼就是我們國內國機自製但內殼裡面的引擎就是證明這個引擎就是向美國採購的所以我們很多地方就是受制於別人的立場我相信這個要跟國內的國人要說清楚不要說國機國造好像就是完整的就是我們國內製造出來的以上謝謝\n\n09:59.711 --> 09:59.731\n好謝偉\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.69,"end":1.295,"text":"有請顧部長"},{"start":9.286,"end":32.967,"text":"是 黃委員好你好有關於這個永英的高教基的失事的問題也是目前大家所探討的因為現在我們了解到我們要把問題找出來當然我們也要檢討出來因為如果不把問題找出來的話未來更多的問題就會層出不曉"},{"start":34.178,"end":57.463,"text":"那今年二月四日的永殷高教基之所以受到特別的關注那主要是因為有兩個罕見的現象這邊本席特別有找出一個問題第一個是最回的永殷高教基去年的六月二十一號才服役"},{"start":58.274,"end":82.43,"text":"那服役不到一年就出事這種情況比較罕見那第二個罕見是在雙發發動機失效這個發生的機率也比較罕見那本席就以第一個罕見的情況來詢問一下部長出廠不到一年的飛機就出事這是不是表示"},{"start":83.09,"end":108.051,"text":"新機出廠的檢查有缺失或是空間地形對於新機不夠熟悉在平時的維護和起飛前的檢修未能確實制定出針對擁陰高較機的需求條件以上請問一下我們部長等一下我們參謀長也詢答"},{"start":111.127,"end":136.764,"text":"我想確實這個它這個飛行的時數還相當的短那雙發動機如果確認同時失效的話這也確實比較罕見我想我們都同意這樣的一個所以黑盒子現在已經打到上來我們要確實的去查明這個造勢的原因這個是當然是很必要的那"},{"start":138.385,"end":146.496,"text":"我們當然因此我們也先就這個機械因素的這個部分做了一個特檢"},{"start":147.406,"end":169.96,"text":"那在這個特檢沒有問題的情況之下我們循序的來進行這樣子的一個逐步回到一個正常的訓練也是必要的但是黑惑子既然這些相關的部分都已經打到上來之後我們會盡快的來釐清這個肇事的原因到底是什麼好 曹部長"},{"start":173.573,"end":199.668,"text":"向委員報告我們所有飛機的出廠之後的所有的接收都一定都是用最嚴謹的態度那個程序絕對不會有任何的遺漏這是第一點向委員向召委報告第二個我們所有各型機的相關修為部都有相關的紀令都是依照技術命令在執行各項的"},{"start":201.45,"end":223.788,"text":"檢查那這一次的為什麼特別如列四類12項這個因為每一個項目的檢查時間軸是並不同的那因為這一次的失事我們就機械因素特別跟漢祥還有我們本軍的相關專業人員共同探討出來之後有可能是這12項的"},{"start":226.751,"end":242.881,"text":"所以我們把它爐裂 特別爐裂出來做一次性的特別檢查好 本市看了今天的報告這是天安特檢針對咏陰高焦跡進行4類第12項的機械檢查而且情況都正常"},{"start":245.163,"end":258.158,"text":"但是本席強調的是不只是機械檢查在機械都沒有問題的情況之下乃要持續找出一個原因因此針對檢查作業本身是否也有"},{"start":259.398,"end":275.983,"text":"進行的檢討所以因此在漢翔目前在持續交貨永營高校機根據今天的報告還有23架的飛機要交貨空軍和漢翔二夜失事的事件之後"},{"start":277.753,"end":292.349,"text":"是否有對新機出廠前的檢查作業進行檢討或優化這是一個很大的問題不少媒體報導都在擔心發動機是否有品質不佳的問題請問一下我們部長"},{"start":295.212,"end":307.749,"text":"有可能性那如果最後正式發動機的良率問題是否會向供應商請求求賞"},{"start":309.663,"end":334.263,"text":"如果是屬於這個原廠提供的這個設備有問題的話我們依照相關的規定這個部分當然是要由依照這個規則原廠然後依照企業中的這個相關的條款向漢雄公司求償那漢雄公司應該可以向原廠來求償如果查證之後問題是在供應商的話我們國"},{"start":336.284,"end":360.645,"text":"國防部一定要請求求償這是本市的要求那關於交貨的延遲根據國防法第22條指出結合民間力量發展國防科技工業獲得武器裝備以自製為優先向外採購的時候落實技術移轉達成獨立自主之國防建設請問一下我們積極推動國機國造"},{"start":364.908,"end":386.568,"text":"國建國造為的目的是什麼目的就是我們針對美國經過遭交貨這個延宕的問題第一個一直是國軍的痛國機國造國建國造希望能達到國防自主最主要的原因也是希望能夠"},{"start":388.51,"end":402.506,"text":"不要受質疑別人結果在於國機國造發生交貨延遲追究的原因是因為外購部分的部件延遲交貨部長會不會覺得"},{"start":404.509,"end":419.648,"text":"就連國際國造都無法擺脫外購延時交貨的陰影真的是情何以堪所以我們在關鍵設備技術還是掌握在別人手上就算一架飛機自制力超過80%"},{"start":421.931,"end":438.291,"text":"這個所謂國機國照還是帶有自欺欺人的色彩政府應該把精力都放在這個追虛的這樣的一個虛假那國機國照很難真正的務實進步所以這個部分你們要做一個"},{"start":440.193,"end":456.325,"text":"審慎的一個討論落實技術轉移解決外購系統無法準時交貨問題的方式就是中科院與漢翔同步啟動國內赤字的方案那意思就是"},{"start":458.851,"end":472.234,"text":"液壓油箱、輪、槍門、門字、洞氣及緊急、沖壓、關、斷、辦等三項國內有自治的能力那為什麼既然強調國機國造為什麼我們有自治的能力還需要外購、對外採購?請問"},{"start":484.417,"end":506.11,"text":"請中科院 委員好 我是中科院副院長在這邊跟委員做簡單的說明我們一切的製造包含了我們例如我們總共這個高焦機有149個零件到貨以後我們會有90個這個AEI就是90個地面的檢測那原來我們都希望能夠用原廠的東西能夠達到最好的品質"},{"start":506.69,"end":526.124,"text":"但是原廠就是因為有交貨落後的問題那我們又因為這個國機國造的這個政策所以我們把能夠很快的能夠達成空軍交貨的重要的項目就如同在報告裡面所提的七項裡面的三項這是我們最能夠解決問題的部分我們先優先解決當然整個"},{"start":526.684,"end":541.911,"text":"部分能夠國機國造這絕對是我們跟空軍一樣的立場但是我們為了要解決這個量產落後的問題我們先把能夠做的就是這三項我們能夠先自製我們先來完成國機國造是我們自製的一個方針沒有錯"},{"start":542.851,"end":567.709,"text":"但是我們內部的引擎裡面是我們向外採購跟美國採購所以如果真正國際國造的話應該連引擎都是國內來製造出來的而不是對外採購這不是說今天我們對外好像我們很多的國內的百姓都認為說國際國造就是我們創造的但是今天我們分兩個階段"},{"start":570.174,"end":598.069,"text":"永英高校機的外殼就是我們國內國機自製但內殼裡面的引擎就是證明這個引擎就是向美國採購的所以我們很多地方就是受制於別人的立場我相信這個要跟國內的國人要說清楚不要說國機國造好像就是完整的就是我們國內製造出來的以上 謝謝"},{"start":599.711,"end":599.731,"text":"好 謝偉"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":217,"blocks":[["黃委員仁：（9時54分）有請顧部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["顧部長立雄：黃委員好。"],["黃委員仁：你好。有關勇鷹高教機失事的問題，也是目前大家所探討的，因為現在我們了解到，我們要把問題找出來，當然我們也要檢討，因為如果不把問題找出來的話，未來更多的問題就會層出不窮。今年2月失事的勇鷹高教機之所以受到特別的關注，主要是因為有兩個罕見的現象，這邊本席特別有找出一個問題。第一個，最近墜毀的勇鷹高教機，去年的6月21號才服役，服役不到一年就出事，這種情況比較罕見。第二個，雙發動機失效，這個發生的機率也比較罕見。本席就以第一個罕見的情況來詢問一下部長，出廠不到一年的飛機就出事，這是不是表示新機出廠的檢查有缺失？或是空軍地勤對於新機不夠熟悉，在平時的維護和起飛前的檢修，未能確實制定出針對勇鷹高教機的需求與條件？以上請問一下部長，等一下我們參謀長也回答。"],["顧部長立雄：確實它飛行的時數還相當的短，而雙發動機如果確認同時失效的話，這也確實比較罕見，我想我們都同意這樣，黑盒子現在已經打撈上來，我們要確實的去查明肇事的原因，這個當然是很必要的。因此我們也先就機械因素的部分做了一個特檢，在特檢確保沒有問題的情況之下，我們循序的來進行、逐步回到一個正常的訓練也是必要的。但是既然黑盒子這些相關的部分都已經打撈上來了，我們會儘快的來釐清肇事的原因到底是什麼。"],["黃委員仁：參謀長。"],["王參謀長德揚：向委員報告，我們所有飛機出廠及之後所有的接收，都一定都是用最嚴謹的態度，程序絕對不會有任何的遺漏，這是第一點向召委報告。第二個，我們所有各型機的相關修維護都有相關的技令，都是依照技術命令在執行各項的檢查。這一次為什麼特別臚列了4類12項，因為每一個項目的檢查時間軸是不同的，這一次的失事，我們就機械因素，特別跟漢翔還有我們本軍的相關專業人員共同探討出來，有可能是這12項的情況，所以我們特別把它臚列出來做一次性的特別檢查，在這邊說明。"],["黃委員仁：好，本席看了今天的報告，這是天安特檢針對勇鷹高教機進行4類12項的機械檢查，而且情況都正常，但是本席強調的不只是機械檢查，在機械都沒有問題的情況之下，仍然要持續找出原因，包括針對檢查作業本身是否也有進行檢討？漢翔目前在持續交貨勇鷹高教機，根據今天的報告，還有23架的飛機要交貨，空軍和漢翔在2月失事的事件之後，是否有對新機出廠前的檢查作業進行檢討或優化，這是一個很大的問題。不少媒體報導都在擔心發動機是否有品質不佳的問題，請問一下部長這個的可能性，如果最後證實是發動機良率的問題，是否會向供應商來求償？"],["顧部長立雄：如果是屬於原廠提供的設備有問題的話，我們依照相關的規定，這個部分當然是要歸責原廠，然後依照契約中相關的條款向漢翔公司求償，漢翔公司應該可以向原廠來求償。"],["黃委員仁：如果查證之後問題是在於供應商的話，我們國防部一定要求償，這是本席的要求。"],["顧部長立雄：這個當然。"],["黃委員仁：關於交貨的延遲，根據國防法第二十二條指出，結合民間力量，發展國防科技工業，獲得武器裝備，以自製為優先，向外採購時，應落實技術轉移，達成獨立自主之國防建設。請問一下，我們積極推動國機國造、國艦國造目的是什麼？目的就是我們針對美國軍購交貨延宕的問題，這個一直是國軍的痛，國機國造、國艦國造是希望能達到國防自主，最主要的原因，也是希望能夠不要受制於別人，結果當國機國造發生交貨延遲，而追究原因是因為外購的部件延遲交貨，部長會不會覺得就連國機國造都無法擺脫外購延遲交貨的陰影，真的是情何以堪？所以我們關鍵設備、技術還是掌握在別人手上，就算一架飛機自製率超過百分之八十，所謂的國機國造還是帶有自欺欺人的色彩，政府把精力都放在追虛的虛假，那國機國造很難真正的落實進步。所以這個部分你們要做一個審慎的討論，落實技術轉移，解決外購系統無法準時交貨問題的方式，就是中科院與漢翔同步啟動國內自製方案，意思就是液壓油箱、輪艙門致動器及緊急衝壓關斷瓣等三項在國內有自製的能力。請問既然強調國機國造，為什麼我們有自製的能力，還要需要對外採購？"],["顧部長立雄：請中科院。"],["程副院長一誠：委員好，我是中科院副院長。在這邊跟委員做簡單的說明，我們一切的製造，例如我們高教機有149個零件到貨以後，我們會有90個AEI地面的檢測，原來我們也希望能夠用原廠的東西能夠達到最好的品質，但是原廠就是因為有交貨落後的問題，我們又因為國機國造的政策，所以我們把能夠很快的、能夠達成空軍交貨的重要的項目，就如同在報告裡面所提的7項裡面的3項，我們就能夠解決的問題部分先優先解決。當然整個能夠國機國造，我們絕對是跟空軍一樣的立場，但是我們為了要解決量產落後的問題，我們先把能夠做的這3項，能夠先自製就先來完成。"],["黃委員仁：國機國造是我們自製的一個方針沒有錯，但是內部的引擎是我們向外採購、跟美國採購，所以如果真正國機國造的話，應該連引擎都是國內製造出來的，而不是對外採購。不是今天我們對外……好像很多國內的百姓都認為說國機國造就是我們製造的，但是今天我們分兩個階段，勇鷹高教機的外殼就是我們國內國機自製，但內殼裡面的引擎就是向美國採購的，所以我們很多地方就是受制於別人，我相信這個要跟國人說清楚，不要說國機國造好像就是完整的由國內製造出來的。以上，謝謝。"],["顧部長立雄：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝黃仁委員。","下面我們請陳俊宇委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":120,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-2","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","陳冠廷","林楚茵","陳永康","陳俊宇","沈伯洋","馬文君","徐巧芯","黃國昌","邱志偉","林憶君","王定宇","羅智強"],"page_start":83,"meetingDate":["2025-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1142701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長報告「國機國造交機進度及勇鷹高教機失事後檢修情況」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142701_00002"}}}