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{\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 115.839, \"end\": 115.939, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"畫\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 115.939, \"end\": 115.959, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"縮\"}, {\"word\": \"減\"}]}, {\"start\": 125.091, \"end\": 151.832, \"text\": \"或者是中止來請說明一下我先待會請那個素產署再做補充說明不過的確沒錯啦在我們在發展數位經濟一個很重要就是在素產署要推動很多用在補助我們大概有幾個數位經濟產業一個就是遊戲產業當然還有其他包括軟體服務軟體產業那個資訊服務業那第三方之物然後就是像電商其實這整個的經濟是我們未來的經濟發展重要的基礎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 125.091, \"end\": 125.211, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 125.211, \"end\": 125.351, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 125.351, \"end\": 125.531, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 125.531, \"end\": 125.852, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"止\", \"start\": 125.852, \"end\": 126.812, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, 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00:00:37,217\n部長好我一直認為立委是一個很嚴肅的工作那在處理預算本來就是一個很嚴謹的程序跟工作但是社會大眾看到這種盲見客似的亂砍預算真的是觸目驚心也是搖頭嘆息那我先請教一下部長我們針對本土遊戲受到預算刪減的衝擊跟影響對\n\n3\n00:00:43,428 --> 00:00:57,256\n素產署有一個促進數位創新的一個動能轉型升級這個項目他編列的是12億元42億然後在這一次的預算審查被刪減了20億凍結10億只剩下12億可以凍資這個部分\n\n4\n00:01:08,510 --> 00:01:28,903\n我要提醒大家獨立遊戲產業是對於台灣的數位文化對於創業產業的一個發展是非常重要的本土遊戲它這個開發團隊它主要還是要仰賴政府的補助來完成產品的開發跟市場的推廣\n\n5\n00:01:30,236 --> 00:01:43,204\n那大幅的刪減我認為是會造成產業的競爭力以及國際市場的這個佈局受到衝擊跟傷害也衝擊到我們整體數位產業的這樣的一個未來的一個發展\n\n6\n00:01:46,667 --> 00:01:55,959\n我請教一下部長我們這個促進數位創新動能轉型升級有包括33項的工作計畫現在預算是12億3減了20億動減了10億只剩下12億這33項計畫會不會縮減\n\n7\n00:02:05,091 --> 00:02:31,832\n或者是中止來請說明一下我先待會請那個素產署再做補充說明不過的確沒錯啦在我們在發展數位經濟一個很重要就是在素產署要推動很多用在補助我們大概有幾個數位經濟產業一個就是遊戲產業當然還有其他包括軟體服務軟體產業那個資訊服務業那第三方之物然後就是像電商其實這整個的經濟是我們未來的經濟發展重要的基礎\n\n8\n00:02:32,452 --> 00:02:44,886\n那當時我上任的時候我曾經說過我希望這個產業在2026年能夠破造那這個因為這次預算刪減我們很多補助都停止那對遊戲產業的影響尤其重大這邊我再請素材署說個說明\n\n9\n00:02:47,509 --> 00:03:04,455\n首先要謝謝委員長期對獨立遊戲的關心跟支持那這次的預算刪減就會影響到獨立遊戲但是我們對獨立遊戲的協助也不會大幅縮減我們會協助它行銷我們在台北GameShow裡面會協助它行銷\n\n10\n00:03:09,369 --> 00:03:25,475\n獨立遊戲的這些啊開發都是比較屬於中小型的這些團隊所以政府的這些資金的補助啊是對他們來說是非常重要的這開發的過程裡面這種資金的補助是很重要行銷是另外一個層次的問題的這個衝擊是必然會產生的那\n\n11\n00:03:30,549 --> 00:03:56,097\n三減到剩12億那你們接下來你認為這個對台灣的獨立遊戲以及數位遊戲的這個產業會有什麼衝擊我們今年大概以守成為主要因為競算大幅三減的部分當然我們也會看看有沒有一些是預算不用不用太多預算就可以執行的政策這是我們會來思考的剛才部長還說希望這個相關產業能夠破造\n\n12\n00:03:58,649 --> 00:04:17,269\n你現在預算刪減成這樣啊卡碼你是要怎麼做這個問題非常的大非常嚴重沒錯署長你的態度跟部長不太一致你認為影響不大部長認為影響很大你們最好能夠私下能夠對話一下\n\n13\n00:04:18,799 --> 00:04:31,624\n我沒有說影響不到我覺得影響也蠻大的不過我現在今年要用法定職檔是我優先因為我很多法定職檔要去實施我的預算會先現在這邊這個是法律規定的這個部長要全力作出另外\n\n14\n00:04:33,271 --> 00:05:02,238\nDCIC相關禁用的議題也引起相關的這個社會大眾的一個注目那政府已經透過GSN的一個封鎖那認為這項產品它涉及的跨境數據的存據儲存還有相關資訊外漏資安的風險那我請教一下我們許多的AI產品像ChatGPT還有Google的Gemline\n\n15\n00:05:03,523 --> 00:05:31,434\n他也涉及相關的這些啊數據傳輸的跨境的一個數據傳輸那政府啊對於這些的標準是如何來簡單說明一下主要是維護危害國家資通訊產品這樣那個認定啊那因為主要是說這個我們認為說當這個對岸不就是一個的產品就是對我們資通訊會有危害危險所以是用這個角度來做把對資通訊產品以及資安有\n\n16\n00:05:31,994 --> 00:06:00,615\n相關的一個風險這是一個最主要的一個標準另外我們學術研究還有教育機構的使用規範蘇衛部有沒有跟教育部或相關的單位來討論有這個就是我們這個以後他們這個不管是國科會或教育部他會針對學校學研單位用這些產品也有一些規範那基本上因為DeepSeek的這個是一個opensource所以基本上這個以研究來講他們下載到地端\n\n17\n00:06:01,195 --> 00:06:01,855\n另外就是說\n\n18\n00:06:25,569 --> 00:06:49,725\nDCIC他主要的問題是因為他要依據中國的這個國家情報法導致這個DCIC他具有資安的一個風險嘛最主要來源是這樣那如果說DCIC他未來修改他的隱私政策他將數據儲存在非中國地區的伺服器例如歐洲或者是新加坡那\n\n19\n00:06:50,806 --> 00:07:08,562\n這個會不會說就所謂繞過他們的這種限制成功解套會不會有這樣的問題這種大圓模型最主要是它雖然是opensource但是它的data並沒有open也就是它用什麼資料訓練然後這訓練出來的結果是不是會有偏見\n\n20\n00:07:09,543 --> 00:07:37,652\n會有這個東西就是我們當而且他剛剛講我們已經發現他有所謂的漏洞就是說教官剛剛講說J-BREAK就是你可以你可以繞過他的一些所謂的SafeGuard就是保護措施所以他事實上並不是一個很完整在資安上並不是一個很完整的產品所以我想不管他怎麼樣的資料怎麼存他還是有資安的疑慮所以我想這個這個應該是就是跟那個跟他將來什麼樣的措施應該是沒有關係因為本身的訓練就是問題\n\n21\n00:07:38,732 --> 00:07:42,727\n那如果未來也出現這種AI的工具它還是具有這種\n\n22\n00:07:44,791 --> 00:08:12,471\n資安的風險那我們相關的數位部在這方面有什麼方法我們有一個評測的中心就是對新的語言模型我們都會做個評測那評測之後會根據它產生的風險會產生一些警示所以的確不是每一個不是每一個現在大語言模型在市面上蠻多的那不是每一個都很安全所以如果大家對哪一個大語言模型有疑慮的話可以到數位部來我們可以幫忙做評測好\n\n23\n00:08:13,692 --> 00:08:38,034\n部長我提醒我也請教我們現在對於除了封鎖DCC之外政府對於這種AI的工具它未來運用的越來越廣那政府是不是也會提供相關的AI的工具來確保公務機關能夠安全的使用AI的技術這個有沒有在做研議這個我們是跟國科會的\n\n24\n00:08:39,195 --> 00:09:06,806\n跟相關部會來做這個我們要本土的主權AI所以這裡面包括自己訓練模型跟資料所以在資料方面我們會有本土的資料那在語言這個模型上目前當然就是說國科會有一些計畫在做自己本土的模型我們會配合然後希望有本土的我們自己產生本土的一些類似這個大語言就是像CHECKGPT這樣的工具可以讓一般民眾跟政府來使用\n\n25\n00:09:07,686 --> 00:09:23,057\n這有待進行部長最後我請教一個小問題就是說蘇發部目前是不是有統一的AI的資安的標準這個標準會不會定期的去檢討更新來因應科技現在發展的一個現況來說明一下簡單\n\n26\n00:09:24,938 --> 00:09:48,170\nAI基本上是還在發展中所以它那個基本上我們只能檢測它有沒有漏洞但是標準目前是還沒有但是我就是講說將來我們希望有一些準則就是我們已經有些AI使用的準則但未來可能要推動AI基本法要不要做更多的規範不過的確啦就是我們需要有這些規範來處理這些未來可能的問題\n\n27\n00:09:51,992 --> 00:10:15,690\n最後有兩件事情雖然過去我對數位部的行政程序跟效率很有意見但是我不得不肯定你們的聯絡人是非常的認真第二是今天的業務報告不管是內容還有相關的編排美工的確是有用心我也不知道這樣算不算對數位部的稱讚跟肯定\n\n28\n00:10:16,773 --> 00:10:19,707\n不過是一個好的起點希望你們更加認真更努力\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2981\t6512\t好謝謝許智傑召委請一下黃部長請部長\n14387\t37217\t部長好我一直認為立委是一個很嚴肅的工作那在處理預算本來就是一個很嚴謹的程序跟工作但是社會大眾看到這種盲見客似的亂砍預算真的是觸目驚心也是搖頭嘆息那我先請教一下部長我們針對本土遊戲受到預算刪減的衝擊跟影響對\n43428\t57256\t素產署有一個促進數位創新的一個動能轉型升級這個項目他編列的是12億元42億然後在這一次的預算審查被刪減了20億凍結10億只剩下12億可以凍資這個部分\n68510\t88903\t我要提醒大家獨立遊戲產業是對於台灣的數位文化對於創業產業的一個發展是非常重要的本土遊戲它這個開發團隊它主要還是要仰賴政府的補助來完成產品的開發跟市場的推廣\n90236\t103204\t那大幅的刪減我認為是會造成產業的競爭力以及國際市場的這個佈局受到衝擊跟傷害也衝擊到我們整體數位產業的這樣的一個未來的一個發展\n106667\t115959\t我請教一下部長我們這個促進數位創新動能轉型升級有包括33項的工作計畫現在預算是12億3減了20億動減了10億只剩下12億這33項計畫會不會縮減\n125091\t151832\t或者是中止來請說明一下我先待會請那個素產署再做補充說明不過的確沒錯啦在我們在發展數位經濟一個很重要就是在素產署要推動很多用在補助我們大概有幾個數位經濟產業一個就是遊戲產業當然還有其他包括軟體服務軟體產業那個資訊服務業那第三方之物然後就是像電商其實這整個的經濟是我們未來的經濟發展重要的基礎\n152452\t164886\t那當時我上任的時候我曾經說過我希望這個產業在2026年能夠破造那這個因為這次預算刪減我們很多補助都停止那對遊戲產業的影響尤其重大這邊我再請素材署說個說明\n167509\t184455\t首先要謝謝委員長期對獨立遊戲的關心跟支持那這次的預算刪減就會影響到獨立遊戲但是我們對獨立遊戲的協助也不會大幅縮減我們會協助它行銷我們在台北Game Show裡面會協助它行銷\n189369\t205475\t獨立遊戲的這些啊開發都是比較屬於中小型的這些團隊所以政府的這些資金的補助啊是對他們來說是非常重要的這開發的過程裡面這種資金的補助是很重要行銷是另外一個層次的問題的這個衝擊是必然會產生的那\n210549\t236097\t三減到剩12億那你們接下來你認為這個對台灣的獨立遊戲以及數位遊戲的這個產業會有什麼衝擊我們今年大概以守成為主要因為競算大幅三減的部分當然我們也會看看有沒有一些是預算不用不用太多預算就可以執行的政策這是我們會來思考的剛才部長還說希望這個相關產業能夠破造\n238649\t257269\t你現在預算刪減成這樣啊卡碼你是要怎麼做這個問題非常的大非常嚴重沒錯署長你的態度跟部長不太一致你認為影響不大部長認為影響很大你們最好能夠私下能夠對話一下\n258799\t271624\t我沒有說影響不到 我覺得影響也蠻大的不過我現在今年要用法定職檔是我優先因為我很多法定職檔要去實施 我的預算會先現在這邊 這個是法律規定的這個部長要全力作出 另外\n273271\t302238\tDCIC相關禁用的議題也引起相關的這個社會大眾的一個注目那政府已經透過GSN的一個封鎖那認為這項產品它涉及的跨境數據的存據儲存還有相關資訊外漏資安的風險那我請教一下我們許多的AI產品像ChatGPT還有Google的Gemline\n303523\t331434\t他也涉及相關的這些啊數據傳輸的跨境的一個數據傳輸那政府啊對於這些的標準是如何來簡單說明一下主要是維護危害國家資通訊產品這樣那個認定啊那因為主要是說這個我們認為說當這個對岸不就是一個的產品就是對我們資通訊會有危害危險所以是用這個角度來做把對資通訊產品以及資安有\n331994\t360615\t相關的一個風險這是一個最主要的一個標準另外我們學術研究還有教育機構的使用規範蘇衛部有沒有跟教育部或相關的單位來討論有這個就是我們這個以後他們這個不管是國科會或教育部他會針對學校學研單位用這些產品也有一些規範那基本上因為DeepSeek的這個是一個open source所以基本上這個以研究來講他們下載到地端\n361195\t361855\t另外就是說\n385569\t409725\tDCIC他主要的問題是因為他要依據中國的這個國家情報法導致這個DCIC他具有資安的一個風險嘛最主要來源是這樣那如果說DCIC他未來修改他的隱私政策他將數據儲存在非中國地區的伺服器例如歐洲或者是新加坡那\n410806\t428562\t這個會不會說就所謂繞過他們的這種限制成功解套會不會有這樣的問題這種大圓模型最主要是它雖然是open source但是它的data並沒有open也就是它用什麼資料訓練然後這訓練出來的結果是不是會有偏見\n429543\t457652\t會有這個東西就是我們當而且他剛剛講我們已經發現他有所謂的漏洞就是說教官剛剛講說J-BREAK就是你可以你可以繞過他的一些所謂的Safe Guard就是保護措施所以他事實上並不是一個很完整在資安上並不是一個很完整的產品所以我想不管他怎麼樣的資料怎麼存他還是有資安的疑慮所以我想這個這個應該是就是跟那個跟他將來什麼樣的措施應該是沒有關係因為本身的訓練就是問題\n458732\t462727\t那如果未來也出現這種AI的工具它還是具有這種\n464791\t492471\t資安的風險那我們相關的數位部在這方面有什麼方法我們有一個評測的中心就是對新的語言模型我們都會做個評測那評測之後會根據它產生的風險會產生一些警示所以的確不是每一個不是每一個現在大語言模型在市面上蠻多的那不是每一個都很安全所以如果大家對哪一個大語言模型有疑慮的話可以到數位部來我們可以幫忙做評測好\n493692\t518034\t部長我提醒我也請教我們現在對於除了封鎖DCC之外政府對於這種AI的工具它未來運用的越來越廣那政府是不是也會提供相關的AI的工具來確保公務機關能夠安全的使用AI的技術這個有沒有在做研議這個我們是跟國科會的\n519195\t546806\t跟相關部會來做這個我們要本土的主權AI所以這裡面包括自己訓練模型跟資料所以在資料方面我們會有本土的資料那在語言這個模型上目前當然就是說國科會有一些計畫在做自己本土的模型我們會配合然後希望有本土的我們自己產生本土的一些類似這個大語言就是像CHECKGPT這樣的工具可以讓一般民眾跟政府來使用\n547686\t563057\t這有待進行部長最後我請教一個小問題就是說蘇發部目前是不是有統一的AI的資安的標準這個標準會不會定期的去檢討更新來因應科技現在發展的一個現況來說明一下簡單\n564938\t588170\tAI基本上是還在發展中所以它那個基本上我們只能檢測它有沒有漏洞但是標準目前是還沒有但是我就是講說將來我們希望有一些準則就是我們已經有些AI使用的準則但未來可能要推動AI基本法要不要做更多的規範不過的確啦就是我們需要有這些規範來處理這些未來可能的問題\n591992\t615690\t最後有兩件事情雖然過去我對數位部的行政程序跟效率很有意見但是我不得不肯定你們的聯絡人是非常的認真第二是今天的業務報告不管是內容還有相關的編排美工的確是有用心我也不知道這樣算不算對數位部的稱讚跟肯定\n616773\t619707\t不過是一個好的起點 希望你們更加認真更努力\n","txt":"好謝謝許智傑召委請一下黃部長請部長\n部長好我一直認為立委是一個很嚴肅的工作那在處理預算本來就是一個很嚴謹的程序跟工作但是社會大眾看到這種盲見客似的亂砍預算真的是觸目驚心也是搖頭嘆息那我先請教一下部長我們針對本土遊戲受到預算刪減的衝擊跟影響對\n素產署有一個促進數位創新的一個動能轉型升級這個項目他編列的是12億元42億然後在這一次的預算審查被刪減了20億凍結10億只剩下12億可以凍資這個部分\n我要提醒大家獨立遊戲產業是對於台灣的數位文化對於創業產業的一個發展是非常重要的本土遊戲它這個開發團隊它主要還是要仰賴政府的補助來完成產品的開發跟市場的推廣\n那大幅的刪減我認為是會造成產業的競爭力以及國際市場的這個佈局受到衝擊跟傷害也衝擊到我們整體數位產業的這樣的一個未來的一個發展\n我請教一下部長我們這個促進數位創新動能轉型升級有包括33項的工作計畫現在預算是12億3減了20億動減了10億只剩下12億這33項計畫會不會縮減\n或者是中止來請說明一下我先待會請那個素產署再做補充說明不過的確沒錯啦在我們在發展數位經濟一個很重要就是在素產署要推動很多用在補助我們大概有幾個數位經濟產業一個就是遊戲產業當然還有其他包括軟體服務軟體產業那個資訊服務業那第三方之物然後就是像電商其實這整個的經濟是我們未來的經濟發展重要的基礎\n那當時我上任的時候我曾經說過我希望這個產業在2026年能夠破造那這個因為這次預算刪減我們很多補助都停止那對遊戲產業的影響尤其重大這邊我再請素材署說個說明\n首先要謝謝委員長期對獨立遊戲的關心跟支持那這次的預算刪減就會影響到獨立遊戲但是我們對獨立遊戲的協助也不會大幅縮減我們會協助它行銷我們在台北Game Show裡面會協助它行銷\n獨立遊戲的這些啊開發都是比較屬於中小型的這些團隊所以政府的這些資金的補助啊是對他們來說是非常重要的這開發的過程裡面這種資金的補助是很重要行銷是另外一個層次的問題的這個衝擊是必然會產生的那\n三減到剩12億那你們接下來你認為這個對台灣的獨立遊戲以及數位遊戲的這個產業會有什麼衝擊我們今年大概以守成為主要因為競算大幅三減的部分當然我們也會看看有沒有一些是預算不用不用太多預算就可以執行的政策這是我們會來思考的剛才部長還說希望這個相關產業能夠破造\n你現在預算刪減成這樣啊卡碼你是要怎麼做這個問題非常的大非常嚴重沒錯署長你的態度跟部長不太一致你認為影響不大部長認為影響很大你們最好能夠私下能夠對話一下\n我沒有說影響不到 我覺得影響也蠻大的不過我現在今年要用法定職檔是我優先因為我很多法定職檔要去實施 我的預算會先現在這邊 這個是法律規定的這個部長要全力作出 另外\nDCIC相關禁用的議題也引起相關的這個社會大眾的一個注目那政府已經透過GSN的一個封鎖那認為這項產品它涉及的跨境數據的存據儲存還有相關資訊外漏資安的風險那我請教一下我們許多的AI產品像ChatGPT還有Google的Gemline\n他也涉及相關的這些啊數據傳輸的跨境的一個數據傳輸那政府啊對於這些的標準是如何來簡單說明一下主要是維護危害國家資通訊產品這樣那個認定啊那因為主要是說這個我們認為說當這個對岸不就是一個的產品就是對我們資通訊會有危害危險所以是用這個角度來做把對資通訊產品以及資安有\n相關的一個風險這是一個最主要的一個標準另外我們學術研究還有教育機構的使用規範蘇衛部有沒有跟教育部或相關的單位來討論有這個就是我們這個以後他們這個不管是國科會或教育部他會針對學校學研單位用這些產品也有一些規範那基本上因為DeepSeek的這個是一個open source所以基本上這個以研究來講他們下載到地端\n另外就是說\nDCIC他主要的問題是因為他要依據中國的這個國家情報法導致這個DCIC他具有資安的一個風險嘛最主要來源是這樣那如果說DCIC他未來修改他的隱私政策他將數據儲存在非中國地區的伺服器例如歐洲或者是新加坡那\n這個會不會說就所謂繞過他們的這種限制成功解套會不會有這樣的問題這種大圓模型最主要是它雖然是open source但是它的data並沒有open也就是它用什麼資料訓練然後這訓練出來的結果是不是會有偏見\n會有這個東西就是我們當而且他剛剛講我們已經發現他有所謂的漏洞就是說教官剛剛講說J-BREAK就是你可以你可以繞過他的一些所謂的Safe Guard就是保護措施所以他事實上並不是一個很完整在資安上並不是一個很完整的產品所以我想不管他怎麼樣的資料怎麼存他還是有資安的疑慮所以我想這個這個應該是就是跟那個跟他將來什麼樣的措施應該是沒有關係因為本身的訓練就是問題\n那如果未來也出現這種AI的工具它還是具有這種\n資安的風險那我們相關的數位部在這方面有什麼方法我們有一個評測的中心就是對新的語言模型我們都會做個評測那評測之後會根據它產生的風險會產生一些警示所以的確不是每一個不是每一個現在大語言模型在市面上蠻多的那不是每一個都很安全所以如果大家對哪一個大語言模型有疑慮的話可以到數位部來我們可以幫忙做評測好\n部長我提醒我也請教我們現在對於除了封鎖DCC之外政府對於這種AI的工具它未來運用的越來越廣那政府是不是也會提供相關的AI的工具來確保公務機關能夠安全的使用AI的技術這個有沒有在做研議這個我們是跟國科會的\n跟相關部會來做這個我們要本土的主權AI所以這裡面包括自己訓練模型跟資料所以在資料方面我們會有本土的資料那在語言這個模型上目前當然就是說國科會有一些計畫在做自己本土的模型我們會配合然後希望有本土的我們自己產生本土的一些類似這個大語言就是像CHECKGPT這樣的工具可以讓一般民眾跟政府來使用\n這有待進行部長最後我請教一個小問題就是說蘇發部目前是不是有統一的AI的資安的標準這個標準會不會定期的去檢討更新來因應科技現在發展的一個現況來說明一下簡單\nAI基本上是還在發展中所以它那個基本上我們只能檢測它有沒有漏洞但是標準目前是還沒有但是我就是講說將來我們希望有一些準則就是我們已經有些AI使用的準則但未來可能要推動AI基本法要不要做更多的規範不過的確啦就是我們需要有這些規範來處理這些未來可能的問題\n最後有兩件事情雖然過去我對數位部的行政程序跟效率很有意見但是我不得不肯定你們的聯絡人是非常的認真第二是今天的業務報告不管是內容還有相關的編排美工的確是有用心我也不知道這樣算不算對數位部的稱讚跟肯定\n不過是一個好的起點 希望你們更加認真更努力\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.981 --> 00:06.512\n好謝謝許智傑召委請一下黃部長請部長\n\n00:14.387 --> 00:37.217\n部長好我一直認為立委是一個很嚴肅的工作那在處理預算本來就是一個很嚴謹的程序跟工作但是社會大眾看到這種盲見客似的亂砍預算真的是觸目驚心也是搖頭嘆息那我先請教一下部長我們針對本土遊戲受到預算刪減的衝擊跟影響對\n\n00:43.428 --> 00:57.256\n素產署有一個促進數位創新的一個動能轉型升級這個項目他編列的是12億元42億然後在這一次的預算審查被刪減了20億凍結10億只剩下12億可以凍資這個部分\n\n01:08.510 --> 01:28.903\n我要提醒大家獨立遊戲產業是對於台灣的數位文化對於創業產業的一個發展是非常重要的本土遊戲它這個開發團隊它主要還是要仰賴政府的補助來完成產品的開發跟市場的推廣\n\n01:30.236 --> 01:43.204\n那大幅的刪減我認為是會造成產業的競爭力以及國際市場的這個佈局受到衝擊跟傷害也衝擊到我們整體數位產業的這樣的一個未來的一個發展\n\n01:46.667 --> 01:55.959\n我請教一下部長我們這個促進數位創新動能轉型升級有包括33項的工作計畫現在預算是12億3減了20億動減了10億只剩下12億這33項計畫會不會縮減\n\n02:05.091 --> 02:31.832\n或者是中止來請說明一下我先待會請那個素產署再做補充說明不過的確沒錯啦在我們在發展數位經濟一個很重要就是在素產署要推動很多用在補助我們大概有幾個數位經濟產業一個就是遊戲產業當然還有其他包括軟體服務軟體產業那個資訊服務業那第三方之物然後就是像電商其實這整個的經濟是我們未來的經濟發展重要的基礎\n\n02:32.452 --> 02:44.886\n那當時我上任的時候我曾經說過我希望這個產業在2026年能夠破造那這個因為這次預算刪減我們很多補助都停止那對遊戲產業的影響尤其重大這邊我再請素材署說個說明\n\n02:47.509 --> 03:04.455\n首先要謝謝委員長期對獨立遊戲的關心跟支持那這次的預算刪減就會影響到獨立遊戲但是我們對獨立遊戲的協助也不會大幅縮減我們會協助它行銷我們在台北GameShow裡面會協助它行銷\n\n03:09.369 --> 03:25.475\n獨立遊戲的這些啊開發都是比較屬於中小型的這些團隊所以政府的這些資金的補助啊是對他們來說是非常重要的這開發的過程裡面這種資金的補助是很重要行銷是另外一個層次的問題的這個衝擊是必然會產生的那\n\n03:30.549 --> 03:56.097\n三減到剩12億那你們接下來你認為這個對台灣的獨立遊戲以及數位遊戲的這個產業會有什麼衝擊我們今年大概以守成為主要因為競算大幅三減的部分當然我們也會看看有沒有一些是預算不用不用太多預算就可以執行的政策這是我們會來思考的剛才部長還說希望這個相關產業能夠破造\n\n03:58.649 --> 04:17.269\n你現在預算刪減成這樣啊卡碼你是要怎麼做這個問題非常的大非常嚴重沒錯署長你的態度跟部長不太一致你認為影響不大部長認為影響很大你們最好能夠私下能夠對話一下\n\n04:18.799 --> 04:31.624\n我沒有說影響不到我覺得影響也蠻大的不過我現在今年要用法定職檔是我優先因為我很多法定職檔要去實施我的預算會先現在這邊這個是法律規定的這個部長要全力作出另外\n\n04:33.271 --> 05:02.238\nDCIC相關禁用的議題也引起相關的這個社會大眾的一個注目那政府已經透過GSN的一個封鎖那認為這項產品它涉及的跨境數據的存據儲存還有相關資訊外漏資安的風險那我請教一下我們許多的AI產品像ChatGPT還有Google的Gemline\n\n05:03.523 --> 05:31.434\n他也涉及相關的這些啊數據傳輸的跨境的一個數據傳輸那政府啊對於這些的標準是如何來簡單說明一下主要是維護危害國家資通訊產品這樣那個認定啊那因為主要是說這個我們認為說當這個對岸不就是一個的產品就是對我們資通訊會有危害危險所以是用這個角度來做把對資通訊產品以及資安有\n\n05:31.994 --> 06:00.615\n相關的一個風險這是一個最主要的一個標準另外我們學術研究還有教育機構的使用規範蘇衛部有沒有跟教育部或相關的單位來討論有這個就是我們這個以後他們這個不管是國科會或教育部他會針對學校學研單位用這些產品也有一些規範那基本上因為DeepSeek的這個是一個opensource所以基本上這個以研究來講他們下載到地端\n\n06:01.195 --> 06:01.855\n另外就是說\n\n06:25.569 --> 06:49.725\nDCIC他主要的問題是因為他要依據中國的這個國家情報法導致這個DCIC他具有資安的一個風險嘛最主要來源是這樣那如果說DCIC他未來修改他的隱私政策他將數據儲存在非中國地區的伺服器例如歐洲或者是新加坡那\n\n06:50.806 --> 07:08.562\n這個會不會說就所謂繞過他們的這種限制成功解套會不會有這樣的問題這種大圓模型最主要是它雖然是opensource但是它的data並沒有open也就是它用什麼資料訓練然後這訓練出來的結果是不是會有偏見\n\n07:09.543 --> 07:37.652\n會有這個東西就是我們當而且他剛剛講我們已經發現他有所謂的漏洞就是說教官剛剛講說J-BREAK就是你可以你可以繞過他的一些所謂的SafeGuard就是保護措施所以他事實上並不是一個很完整在資安上並不是一個很完整的產品所以我想不管他怎麼樣的資料怎麼存他還是有資安的疑慮所以我想這個這個應該是就是跟那個跟他將來什麼樣的措施應該是沒有關係因為本身的訓練就是問題\n\n07:38.732 --> 07:42.727\n那如果未來也出現這種AI的工具它還是具有這種\n\n07:44.791 --> 08:12.471\n資安的風險那我們相關的數位部在這方面有什麼方法我們有一個評測的中心就是對新的語言模型我們都會做個評測那評測之後會根據它產生的風險會產生一些警示所以的確不是每一個不是每一個現在大語言模型在市面上蠻多的那不是每一個都很安全所以如果大家對哪一個大語言模型有疑慮的話可以到數位部來我們可以幫忙做評測好\n\n08:13.692 --> 08:38.034\n部長我提醒我也請教我們現在對於除了封鎖DCC之外政府對於這種AI的工具它未來運用的越來越廣那政府是不是也會提供相關的AI的工具來確保公務機關能夠安全的使用AI的技術這個有沒有在做研議這個我們是跟國科會的\n\n08:39.195 --> 09:06.806\n跟相關部會來做這個我們要本土的主權AI所以這裡面包括自己訓練模型跟資料所以在資料方面我們會有本土的資料那在語言這個模型上目前當然就是說國科會有一些計畫在做自己本土的模型我們會配合然後希望有本土的我們自己產生本土的一些類似這個大語言就是像CHECKGPT這樣的工具可以讓一般民眾跟政府來使用\n\n09:07.686 --> 09:23.057\n這有待進行部長最後我請教一個小問題就是說蘇發部目前是不是有統一的AI的資安的標準這個標準會不會定期的去檢討更新來因應科技現在發展的一個現況來說明一下簡單\n\n09:24.938 --> 09:48.170\nAI基本上是還在發展中所以它那個基本上我們只能檢測它有沒有漏洞但是標準目前是還沒有但是我就是講說將來我們希望有一些準則就是我們已經有些AI使用的準則但未來可能要推動AI基本法要不要做更多的規範不過的確啦就是我們需要有這些規範來處理這些未來可能的問題\n\n09:51.992 --> 10:15.690\n最後有兩件事情雖然過去我對數位部的行政程序跟效率很有意見但是我不得不肯定你們的聯絡人是非常的認真第二是今天的業務報告不管是內容還有相關的編排美工的確是有用心我也不知道這樣算不算對數位部的稱讚跟肯定\n\n10:16.773 --> 10:19.707\n不過是一個好的起點希望你們更加認真更努力\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.981,"end":6.512,"text":"好謝謝許智傑召委請一下黃部長請部長"},{"start":14.387,"end":37.217,"text":"部長好我一直認為立委是一個很嚴肅的工作那在處理預算本來就是一個很嚴謹的程序跟工作但是社會大眾看到這種盲見客似的亂砍預算真的是觸目驚心也是搖頭嘆息那我先請教一下部長我們針對本土遊戲受到預算刪減的衝擊跟影響對"},{"start":43.428,"end":57.256,"text":"素產署有一個促進數位創新的一個動能轉型升級這個項目他編列的是12億元42億然後在這一次的預算審查被刪減了20億凍結10億只剩下12億可以凍資這個部分"},{"start":68.51,"end":88.903,"text":"我要提醒大家獨立遊戲產業是對於台灣的數位文化對於創業產業的一個發展是非常重要的本土遊戲它這個開發團隊它主要還是要仰賴政府的補助來完成產品的開發跟市場的推廣"},{"start":90.236,"end":103.204,"text":"那大幅的刪減我認為是會造成產業的競爭力以及國際市場的這個佈局受到衝擊跟傷害也衝擊到我們整體數位產業的這樣的一個未來的一個發展"},{"start":106.667,"end":115.959,"text":"我請教一下部長我們這個促進數位創新動能轉型升級有包括33項的工作計畫現在預算是12億3減了20億動減了10億只剩下12億這33項計畫會不會縮減"},{"start":125.091,"end":151.832,"text":"或者是中止來請說明一下我先待會請那個素產署再做補充說明不過的確沒錯啦在我們在發展數位經濟一個很重要就是在素產署要推動很多用在補助我們大概有幾個數位經濟產業一個就是遊戲產業當然還有其他包括軟體服務軟體產業那個資訊服務業那第三方之物然後就是像電商其實這整個的經濟是我們未來的經濟發展重要的基礎"},{"start":152.452,"end":164.886,"text":"那當時我上任的時候我曾經說過我希望這個產業在2026年能夠破造那這個因為這次預算刪減我們很多補助都停止那對遊戲產業的影響尤其重大這邊我再請素材署說個說明"},{"start":167.509,"end":184.455,"text":"首先要謝謝委員長期對獨立遊戲的關心跟支持那這次的預算刪減就會影響到獨立遊戲但是我們對獨立遊戲的協助也不會大幅縮減我們會協助它行銷我們在台北Game 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另外"},{"start":273.271,"end":302.238,"text":"DCIC相關禁用的議題也引起相關的這個社會大眾的一個注目那政府已經透過GSN的一個封鎖那認為這項產品它涉及的跨境數據的存據儲存還有相關資訊外漏資安的風險那我請教一下我們許多的AI產品像ChatGPT還有Google的Gemline"},{"start":303.523,"end":331.434,"text":"他也涉及相關的這些啊數據傳輸的跨境的一個數據傳輸那政府啊對於這些的標準是如何來簡單說明一下主要是維護危害國家資通訊產品這樣那個認定啊那因為主要是說這個我們認為說當這個對岸不就是一個的產品就是對我們資通訊會有危害危險所以是用這個角度來做把對資通訊產品以及資安有"},{"start":331.994,"end":360.615,"text":"相關的一個風險這是一個最主要的一個標準另外我們學術研究還有教育機構的使用規範蘇衛部有沒有跟教育部或相關的單位來討論有這個就是我們這個以後他們這個不管是國科會或教育部他會針對學校學研單位用這些產品也有一些規範那基本上因為DeepSeek的這個是一個open source所以基本上這個以研究來講他們下載到地端"},{"start":361.195,"end":361.855,"text":"另外就是說"},{"start":385.569,"end":409.725,"text":"DCIC他主要的問題是因為他要依據中國的這個國家情報法導致這個DCIC他具有資安的一個風險嘛最主要來源是這樣那如果說DCIC他未來修改他的隱私政策他將數據儲存在非中國地區的伺服器例如歐洲或者是新加坡那"},{"start":410.806,"end":428.562,"text":"這個會不會說就所謂繞過他們的這種限制成功解套會不會有這樣的問題這種大圓模型最主要是它雖然是open source但是它的data並沒有open也就是它用什麼資料訓練然後這訓練出來的結果是不是會有偏見"},{"start":429.543,"end":457.652,"text":"會有這個東西就是我們當而且他剛剛講我們已經發現他有所謂的漏洞就是說教官剛剛講說J-BREAK就是你可以你可以繞過他的一些所謂的Safe Guard就是保護措施所以他事實上並不是一個很完整在資安上並不是一個很完整的產品所以我想不管他怎麼樣的資料怎麼存他還是有資安的疑慮所以我想這個這個應該是就是跟那個跟他將來什麼樣的措施應該是沒有關係因為本身的訓練就是問題"},{"start":458.732,"end":462.727,"text":"那如果未來也出現這種AI的工具它還是具有這種"},{"start":464.791,"end":492.471,"text":"資安的風險那我們相關的數位部在這方面有什麼方法我們有一個評測的中心就是對新的語言模型我們都會做個評測那評測之後會根據它產生的風險會產生一些警示所以的確不是每一個不是每一個現在大語言模型在市面上蠻多的那不是每一個都很安全所以如果大家對哪一個大語言模型有疑慮的話可以到數位部來我們可以幫忙做評測好"},{"start":493.692,"end":518.034,"text":"部長我提醒我也請教我們現在對於除了封鎖DCC之外政府對於這種AI的工具它未來運用的越來越廣那政府是不是也會提供相關的AI的工具來確保公務機關能夠安全的使用AI的技術這個有沒有在做研議這個我們是跟國科會的"},{"start":519.195,"end":546.806,"text":"跟相關部會來做這個我們要本土的主權AI所以這裡面包括自己訓練模型跟資料所以在資料方面我們會有本土的資料那在語言這個模型上目前當然就是說國科會有一些計畫在做自己本土的模型我們會配合然後希望有本土的我們自己產生本土的一些類似這個大語言就是像CHECKGPT這樣的工具可以讓一般民眾跟政府來使用"},{"start":547.686,"end":563.057,"text":"這有待進行部長最後我請教一個小問題就是說蘇發部目前是不是有統一的AI的資安的標準這個標準會不會定期的去檢討更新來因應科技現在發展的一個現況來說明一下簡單"},{"start":564.938,"end":588.17,"text":"AI基本上是還在發展中所以它那個基本上我們只能檢測它有沒有漏洞但是標準目前是還沒有但是我就是講說將來我們希望有一些準則就是我們已經有些AI使用的準則但未來可能要推動AI基本法要不要做更多的規範不過的確啦就是我們需要有這些規範來處理這些未來可能的問題"},{"start":591.992,"end":615.69,"text":"最後有兩件事情雖然過去我對數位部的行政程序跟效率很有意見但是我不得不肯定你們的聯絡人是非常的認真第二是今天的業務報告不管是內容還有相關的編排美工的確是有用心我也不知道這樣算不算對數位部的稱讚跟肯定"},{"start":616.773,"end":619.707,"text":"不過是一個好的起點 希望你們更加認真更努力"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":187,"blocks":[["李委員昆澤：（9時54分）謝謝許智傑召委，請一下黃部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["李委員昆澤：部長好。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["李委員昆澤：我一直認為立委是一個很嚴肅的工作，在處理預算本來就是一個很嚴謹的程序跟工作，但是社會大眾看到這種盲劍客似的亂砍預算，真的是觸目驚心，也是搖頭嘆息。我先請教部長，針對本土遊戲受到預算刪減的衝擊跟影響，數產署有一個「促進數位創新動能轉型升級」項目，編列了42億元，然而在這次預算審查時被刪減了20億，凍結10億，只剩下12億可以動支，這個部分我要提醒大家，獨立遊戲產業對於臺灣的數位文化、創業產業發展是非常重要的，本土遊戲開發團隊主要還是要仰賴政府補助來完成產品開發及市場推廣，我認為大幅刪減預算將會讓產業競爭力及國際市場布局受到衝擊與傷害，也衝擊到我們整體數位產業未來的發展。促進數位創新動能轉型升級包括了33項工作計畫，現在預算42億刪減了20億，凍結10億，只剩下12億，請教部長，這33項計畫會不會縮減或者終止？請說明。"],["黃部長彥男：我先說明，待會再請數產署補充說明。的確沒錯，我們發展數位經濟一個很重要的部分，就是數產署推動的很多用於補助的工作，我們大概有幾個數位經濟產業，其中一個就是遊戲產業，當然還包括其他的軟體服務、資訊服務業、第三方支付，譬如電商等等，其實這整個經濟是我們未來經濟發展重要的基礎，當初我上任的時候曾經說過，希望這個產業在2026年能夠破兆，但因為這次預算的刪減，很多補助都停止，對遊戲產業的影響尤其重大。這邊我再請數產署說明。"],["林署長俊秀：首先要謝謝委員長期對獨立遊戲的關心與支持，這次的預算刪減的確會影響到獨立遊戲，但我們對獨立遊戲的協助不會大幅縮減，我們會協助它行銷，就是在Taipei Game Show裡協助它行銷……"],["李委員昆澤：你不要只有協助行銷，獨立遊戲的開發都是屬於比較中小型的團隊，所以政府資金的補助對他們來說是非常重要的，開發的過程中，資金的補助是很重要，而行銷則是另一個層次的問題。"],["林署長俊秀：是。"],["李委員昆澤：這個衝擊是必然會產生的，刪減到剩12億，接下來你認為對臺灣獨立遊戲以及數位遊戲的產業會有什麼衝擊？"],["林署長俊秀：我們今年大概以守成為主，因為預算大幅刪減，當然我們也會看看有沒有一些是不用太多預算就可以執行的政策，這是我們會來思考的。"],["李委員昆澤：剛才部長還說希望這個產業產值能夠破兆，現在預算刪減成這樣，腳都麻了，要怎麼跑？這個問題非常大。"],["黃部長彥男：是，非常嚴重，沒錯。"],["李委員昆澤：署長，你的態度跟部長不太一致，你認為影響不大，部長認為影響很大，你們最好私下能夠對話一下。"],["林署長俊秀：報告委員，我沒有說影響不大，我覺得影響蠻大，不過我們今年要以法定職掌為優先，因為我們有很多法定職掌要實施，所以預算會先用在這邊，這是法律規定的。"],["李委員昆澤：這個部長要全力督促。另外，DeepSeek相關禁用議題也引起社會大眾的注目，政府已經透過GSN封鎖，認為這項產品涉及了跨境數據的儲存，還有相關資訊外露等資安風險，請教部長，許多AI產品，像ChatGPT，還有Google的Gemini，也涉及相關跨境的數據傳輸，政府對於這些的標準是如何界定？簡單說明一下。"],["黃部長彥男：主要是以危害國家資通訊產品來認定，當我們認為對岸的產品對我們的資通訊會有危害、危險，是用這個角度把……"],["李委員昆澤：對資通訊產品以及資安有相關的風險，這是最主要的標準。"],["黃部長彥男：對，有風險。"],["李委員昆澤：另外，學術研究和教育機構的使用規範，數位部有沒有和教育部或相關單位討論？"],["黃部長彥男：有。這部分就是我們規範以後，不管是國科會或教育部，針對學校、學研單位使用這些產品也會有一些規範。因為DeepSeek是一個open source，以研究來說，他們是下載到地端做研究，也許他們有不同的規範，但是在使用它的網站或app要特別小心。所以我們有向這兩個部會表示對這部分的concern，因此他們有另外訂新的規範，就是研究用和一般生活使用需要切開。"],["李委員昆澤：部長，DeepSeek主要的問題是因為它要依循中國的國家情報法，導致DeepSeek具有資安風險，最主要的原因是這樣，如果DeepSeek未來修改隱私政策，將數據儲存在非中國地區的伺服器，例如歐洲或者新加坡，這樣會不會成功解套，繞過他們的這種限制？會不會有這樣的問題？"],["黃部長彥男：這種大語言模型最主要的問題，就是它雖然是open source，但是它的data並沒有open，也就是它用什麼資料訓練？訓練出來的結果是不是會有偏見？這就是我們當初考量的。而且剛剛說過，我們已經發現它有所謂的漏洞，就是剛剛說的jailbreak，你可以繞過它的一些safeguard，就是所謂的保護措施，事實上就資安而言，它並不是一個很完整的產品。所以不管它的資料怎麼存，還是有資安的疑慮，這和它將來是什麼樣的措施應該沒有關係，因為本身的訓練就……"],["李委員昆澤：部長，如果未來也出現這種AI工具，它還是具有這種資安風險，數位部在這方面有做什麼防範？"],["黃部長彥男：我們有一個評測中心，對新的語言模型，我們都會做評測，評測之後會根據它產生的風險提出警示，現在市面上的大語言模型滿多的，但不是每一個都很安全，如果大家對哪一個大語言模型有疑慮的話，可以向數發部提出，我們可以幫忙做評測。"],["李委員昆澤：好。部長，本席要提醒，也是請教，我們現在除了封鎖DeepSeek之外，對於這種AI工具，因為它未來運用範圍會越來越廣，政府是不是也會提供相關的AI工具，確保公務機關能夠安全的使用AI技術？這個部分有沒有進行研議？"],["黃部長彥男：有，我們是和國科會等相關部會合作，我們要有本土的主權AI，這裡面包括自己訓練的模型和資料。在資料方面，我們會有本土的資料，在語言模型方面，目前國科會有一些計畫在做本土的模型，這部分我們會配合，希望產生一些本土的模型，就是類似大語言模型，像ChatGPT這樣的工具，讓一般民眾和政府可以使用，這個部分有在進行。"],["李委員昆澤：好。部長，最後本席請教一個小問題，數發部目前是不是有統一的AI資安標準？這個標準會不會定期檢討、更新，因應科技發展的現況？請你簡單說明一下。"],["黃部長彥男：AI基本上還在發展中，所以我們只能檢測它有沒有漏洞，目前還沒有標準，但是我也說過，將來我們希望有一些準則。我們已經有一些AI的使用準則，未來可能要推動AI基本法，思考要不要做更多規範。不過的確我們需要有一些規範，處理未來可能發生的問題。"],["李委員昆澤：好，謝謝部長。最後有兩件事情，雖然過去本席對數發部的行政程序和效率很有意見，但是本席不得不肯定，你們的聯絡人非常認真。第二，今天這個業務報告，不管是內容和相關的編排、美工，的確有用心，本席也不知道這樣算不算對數發部的稱讚和肯定，不過這是一個好的起點，希望你們更加認真、努力，以上。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝委員。"],["主席：昆澤委員稱讚數發部的同仁都很認真，要繼續努力。","現在請林俊憲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":360,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-2","speakers":["許智傑","洪孟楷","林國成","李昆澤","林俊憲","蔡其昌","魯明哲","陳素月","徐富癸","何欣純","邱若華","廖先翔","黃健豪","林楚茵","游顥","葛如鈞"],"page_start":311,"meetingDate":["2025-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1142601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142601_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142601_00010"}}}