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人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。\n十四、審查委員魯明哲等17人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。\n十五、審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。\n十六、審查委員葉元之等20人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。\n十七、審查委員林德福等20人擬具「青年發展基本法草案」案。\n十八、審查委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。\n(第十八案如未獲議事處來函，則不予審查；僅進行詢答)\n(本次會議若因當日加開院會而停開，不再另行通知)）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-03-13","start_time":"2025-03-13T11:30:57+08:00","end_time":"2025-03-13T11:42:16+08:00","duration":679,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-3-22-2"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"159123","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159123","tool":"pyannote","id":"159123-pyannote"},"job_id":"8t77YBIVLmxEREFb","queued_at":"2025-03-13 23:22:31","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2025-03-13 23:23:35","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/159123","target":null},{"time":"2025-03-13 23:23:36","msg":"already 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\"start\": 673.068, \"end\": 673.268, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 673.268, \"end\": 674.029, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 674.029, \"end\": 674.049, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:18,051 --> 00:00:19,838\n主席好麻煩請找教育部政務次長好我們請葉次長\n\n2\n00:00:30,733 --> 00:00:42,400\n今天大家在討論青年搬染基本法我針對兩個問題跟你請教一下第一個是青年定義因為我自己也有提一個版本青年定義是18歲到45歲為什麼是從18歲開始起算是因為12到18歲有兒童及少年福利權益保護法\n\n3\n00:00:51,846 --> 00:01:18,665\n那剛好銜接18歲以上那為什麼要到45歲呢因為我們其他的法律包括像是農發條例施行細則他那邊就直接指青年是指18歲以上45歲以下然後我們的青創代管的申請資格也是到45歲以下所以參考其他的法律啦那我的我們的版本是訂18到45歲然後我不曉得說因為現在沒有教育部的版本嘛\n\n4\n00:01:19,125 --> 00:01:48,708\n教育部現在規劃你們青年定義是幾歲然後原因是什麼我們目前定義是18到35歲為什麼是到35歲因為我們看其他國家的一些像韓國19歲到34歲大概都是在這個範圍那我們也希望說如果說這個年紀拉得太大的話又會稀釋掉這些資源所以我們大概就是採在國內外大家收集起來大概就是18到35歲是我們現在定的朝你的一個範圍可是你看好像\n\n5\n00:01:49,388 --> 00:01:55,374\n清創的貸款還有農發條例他們對於青年定義也包括35歲到45歲嘛所以他們也認為說應該要把資源用在35歲到45歲跟委員報告我想這個有一些我想這個不同的領域啦\n\n6\n00:02:06,185 --> 00:02:34,474\n因為現在創業蠻多人確實也是到40歲才開始創業所以在一些不同的業務上面它有一些這樣的彈性我們是覺得這是很OK的未來我們在青年基本法訂了以後我們也會允許我也希望說讓這部位原本它的業務有在照顧的年齡段不會因為青年基本法訂在35歲它像這個地方它就卡到35歲不會我們就讓它原來你的計畫已經在照顧的年段不會受到青年基本法的定義的影響第二個是\n\n7\n00:02:35,214 --> 00:03:00,520\n因為我們的法案裡面草案裡面也有定義一個青年的一個組織機關那因為教育部現在有青年發展署嘛所以我想要問次長就是如果這個法通過之後青年發展署它的位階會不會提高或者是說會不會擴充那我這邊提一個比較具體的問題因為我們現在很多地方政府都有設立青年局其實這個都利益良善啦大家都是為了要\n\n8\n00:03:01,540 --> 00:03:29,639\n發展青年嘛希望青年可以得到更好的照顧但是它會衍生出一個問題因為青年局成立之後會從其他的局把業務撥過來但有的業務其實在原本的局會比較發展會比較好舉個例子來講像比如說縣市政府的青年局可能會負責青創青年創業但青年創業以前是在經發局那經發局負責青創有一個好處因為他們有很多廠商資源所以可以推廣大手拉小手可是如果把青創的業務移到了\n\n9\n00:03:30,359 --> 00:03:55,821\n青年局這個大手拉小手的就沒有辦法在同一個局裡面把它整合起來就變成青年局要跟津巴局協調那局跟局之間協調絕對不會比同一個局裡面業務整合來的有效率所以如果我們推動這個青年發展基本法的話應該要有一個更上位的單位組織去整合協調把青年工作做好那現在教育部未來你們提的版本\n\n10\n00:03:58,123 --> 00:04:11,700\n跟委員報告目前我們朝你的版本就是那個專責機關就會未接拉提高到教育部由教育部到專責機關但教育部如果要跟經濟部或者是要跟勞動部協調教育部有辦法\n\n11\n00:04:12,541 --> 00:04:30,735\n只會動其他的單位嗎就像委員剛才提到接下來會很多跨部會的橫向協調那這部分我們在基本反應會在訂說由行政院召開跨部會的青年事務協調匯報那這大概是每個大概每三個月開一次那行政院的專責匯報的這個召集人是誰你們現在設定的召集人是誰\n\n12\n00:04:34,634 --> 00:04:41,223\n召集的應該是院長尤其是由院長來召集青眼的業務的協調匯報然後把各單位叫來然後業務單位是教育部那你認為這樣子推動的話會不會遇到我剛剛所講的問題\n\n13\n00:04:50,134 --> 00:05:15,828\n其實回過頭來也跟委員報告就像委員提到有些事情比如像創業或這些事情其實他應該還是在經濟部來處理會比較好教育部其實或是說不管是任何專責把他拿過來這個業務其實都沒有辦法做得比經濟部還要好所以我們想現在這樣的模式可能是比較能夠符合照顧到青年在各個面下的需求所以我們就提醒一下就是這個法院有通過之後有專責機關他應該要能夠協調不要讓說好像\n\n14\n00:05:19,370 --> 00:05:45,050\n有一些業務啊因為移波或什麼反而造成推動比原來更不利啊然後再來針對一些我關心的一些教育問題來跟次長請教一下因為我知道次長是來自於高教是在前一陣子教授提出一個現象他提出一個現象他發現學生的微積分的程度普遍下滑然後他還提到說清大\n\n15\n00:05:46,024 --> 00:06:01,121\n有很多學生停修演算法這比例非常高到三成那演算法就是跟AI相關這是等於是發展AI的基礎的學科那為什麼教授發現學生的專業程度逐漸下滑是因為108課綱的關係各位報告我先把這個教授的講完\n\n16\n00:06:05,526 --> 00:06:23,127\n那因為108課剛是高中的時候因為有一些必修課它減少了嘛所以造成基礎學科休息的時數下滑到大學之後就出現這個狀況那不知道次長你有掌握嗎各位委員報告這個資訊是我認為是不對的因為同樣的一個演算法的課在台大資訊系\n\n17\n00:06:24,128 --> 00:06:49,636\n這個學期停修的比例反而比較低所以這是單一科系的課程的問題但是另外一個就是台大在今年停修的它讓學生可以很晚很晚停修這是台大最近才開放的所以這個規定改變之後的停修的比例這跟去年比跟往年比其實除了這個教授有這個主張之外其實我聽過非常多其他學校的我也跟委員報告等一下\n\n18\n00:06:50,976 --> 00:07:08,341\n我其實聽過很多大學教授都反映一樣的狀況所以以前我在跟一些大學老師在談說少子化問題的時候他們推說他們現在推一個東西叫接觸學生接觸學生是說怕學生因為跟不上所以導致於可能學習的意願低落離開學校\n\n19\n00:07:09,221 --> 00:07:26,327\n所以他們有時候還推一些可能補救教學就是加強學生的一些基礎的學科的能力這個其實不是說只有這個台大教授講我只是把這個現象跟部長講跟次長講那絕大多數的老師反應都是指向108課綱說108課綱因為必修學科減少所以產生這個狀況\n\n20\n00:07:31,069 --> 00:07:55,956\n那次長你也是來自於高教也許你的意見是不是但是我這邊反映的是很多老師的意見跟委員報告這其實有幾個面向第一個我們現在少子化我們現在新生兒只有30年前的三分之一你從三分之一裡面能不能選到前1%跟以前有三倍人數前1%那當然能力程度會有差別沒有啦這個跟108科有關第二個我在去年跟伯克萊大學的校長\n\n21\n00:07:56,856 --> 00:08:26,016\n我們面對面見面在談的時候伯克萊大學也有同樣的狀況UCSanDiego也有同樣的狀況美國的這些一流帶都有同樣的狀況他們認為這個有幾個原因有世代的差異還有COVID-19疫情市長因為我還有其他的問題要問我們是提醒你現在學校有這種聲音也許你有你的看法但是很多學校的看法不是這樣如果你覺得他們看法不對的話也可以去溝通一下然後再來\n\n22\n00:08:26,996 --> 00:08:42,308\n問一個這個之前我有關心過的議題就是因為代理教師的職前年資在去年的時候已經當法官已經說教育部的現行的做法違憲那我不知道現在教育部什麼時候要訂定統一的辦法出來我請國教署說明好\n\n23\n00:08:43,802 --> 00:08:57,119\n新聞報告我們有找縣市政府討論也取得共識那目前在修代理代課教師篇的辦法那應該會從今年8月1號吧今年8月1號開始所有的職前年資都會因為修辦法修辦法不是不是那什麼時候開始續新職前年資開始續新\n\n24\n00:09:00,544 --> 00:09:24,057\n細項的部分可能我們會後再給委員沒有沒有現在就可以講嘛現在直播大家都在看嘛不好意思因為委員我們督導的副署長沒有來所以我不是督導所以你的意思是說八月份的時候辦法會修出來但其實大家現在關心的不是辦法什麼時候修出來大家關心的是說那到底什麼時候開始實現年資可以納入續薪因為桃園好像已經事先實施了嘛\n\n25\n00:09:24,457 --> 00:09:43,454\n就基本上在沒有修辦法之前如果縣市政府要做也是可以我知道當然縣市政府要做可以我現在是說因為教育部的態度跟統一的做法我現在問的是這件事情全國一致性的部分我們就是修辦法修辦法過辦法發布過後全國各縣市就必須依照辦法就不能再不敘心這件事情\n\n26\n00:09:44,355 --> 00:10:04,461\n最後再問個問題啦因為最近大家都在討論還假漁民嘛那有一個藍綠白立委都有共識的節日就是教師節然後在幾個禮拜前有一次教團來這邊辦記者會那時候藍綠白的立委都有參加那大家都很支持教師節放假不知道說教育部的立場是怎樣這個我請人事處來說明一下你們現在立場是怎樣\n\n27\n00:10:14,002 --> 00:10:29,389\n因為這個部分實際上主政是內政部教育部的立場是尊重我知道主政內政部現在是問教師界立場因為其實在去年的上個會期那時候還沒有換卓院長的時候部長是潘文忠\n\n28\n00:10:30,129 --> 00:10:57,353\n那潘元忠那時候有透露啦我那時候是問的是勞動節因為主要是要幫一些老師他們是保勞保但是不是適用勞基法就是說他們勞動節沒放假那當時那個部長是講說其實人事行政總署有問各單位的意見那教育部其實是支持像這類的老師他在勞動節可以放假所以雖然主責可能是內政部或者是人事行政總署這個都OK我現在問的是教育部的立場支不支持教師節放假\n\n29\n00:10:57,998 --> 00:11:14,049\n教育部目前實際上對於勞動節跟教師節的部分我們都是屬於支持的立場那這個部分可是要看那個內政部所以到時候如果行政院有問各單位意見的時候教育部有反應說支持這兩個節制是放假的好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n18051\t19838\t主席好 麻煩請找教育部政務次長好 我們請葉次長\n30733\t42400\t今天大家在討論青年搬染基本法我針對兩個問題跟你請教一下第一個是青年定義因為我自己也有提一個版本青年定義是18歲到45歲為什麼是從18歲開始起算是因為12到18歲有兒童及少年福利權益保護法\n51846\t78665\t那剛好銜接18歲以上那為什麼要到45歲呢因為我們其他的法律包括像是農發條例施行細則他那邊就直接指青年是指18歲以上45歲以下然後我們的青創代管的申請資格也是到45歲以下所以參考其他的法律啦那我的我們的版本是訂18到45歲然後我不曉得說因為現在沒有教育部的版本嘛\n79125\t108708\t教育部現在規劃你們青年定義是幾歲然後原因是什麼我們目前定義是18到35歲為什麼是到35歲因為我們看其他國家的一些像韓國19歲到34歲大概都是在這個範圍那我們也希望說如果說這個年紀拉得太大的話又會稀釋掉這些資源所以我們大概就是採在國內外大家收集起來大概就是18到35歲是我們現在定的朝你的一個範圍可是你看好像\n109388\t115374\t清創的貸款還有農發條例他們對於青年定義也包括35歲到45歲嘛所以他們也認為說應該要把資源用在35歲到45歲跟委員報告我想這個有一些我想這個不同的領域啦\n126185\t154474\t因為現在創業蠻多人確實也是到40歲才開始創業所以在一些不同的業務上面它有一些這樣的彈性我們是覺得這是很OK的未來我們在青年基本法訂了以後我們也會允許我也希望說讓這部位原本它的業務有在照顧的年齡段不會因為青年基本法訂在35歲它像這個地方它就卡到35歲不會我們就讓它原來你的計畫已經在照顧的年段不會受到青年基本法的定義的影響第二個是\n155214\t180520\t因為我們的法案裡面草案裡面也有定義一個青年的一個組織機關那因為教育部現在有青年發展署嘛所以我想要問次長就是如果這個法通過之後青年發展署它的位階會不會提高或者是說會不會擴充那我這邊提一個比較具體的問題因為我們現在很多地方政府都有設立青年局其實這個都利益良善啦大家都是為了要\n181540\t209639\t發展青年嘛希望青年可以得到更好的照顧但是它會衍生出一個問題因為青年局成立之後會從其他的局把業務撥過來但有的業務其實在原本的局會比較發展會比較好舉個例子來講像比如說縣市政府的青年局可能會負責青創青年創業但青年創業以前是在經發局那經發局負責青創有一個好處因為他們有很多廠商資源所以可以推廣大手拉小手可是如果把青創的業務移到了\n210359\t235821\t青年局這個大手拉小手的就沒有辦法在同一個局裡面把它整合起來就變成青年局要跟津巴局協調那局跟局之間協調絕對不會比同一個局裡面業務整合來的有效率所以如果我們推動這個青年發展基本法的話應該要有一個更上位的單位組織去整合協調把青年工作做好那現在教育部未來你們提的版本\n238123\t251700\t跟委員報告目前我們朝你的版本就是那個專責機關就會未接拉提高到教育部由教育部到專責機關但教育部如果要跟經濟部或者是要跟勞動部協調教育部有辦法\n252541\t270735\t只會動其他的單位嗎就像委員剛才提到接下來會很多跨部會的橫向協調那這部分我們在基本反應會在訂說由行政院召開跨部會的青年事務協調匯報那這大概是每個大概每三個月開一次那行政院的專責匯報的這個召集人是誰你們現在設定的召集人是誰\n274634\t281223\t召集的應該是院長尤其是由院長來召集青眼的業務的協調匯報然後把各單位叫來然後業務單位是教育部那你認為這樣子推動的話會不會遇到我剛剛所講的問題\n290134\t315828\t其實回過頭來也跟委員報告就像委員提到有些事情比如像創業或這些事情其實他應該還是在經濟部來處理會比較好教育部其實或是說不管是任何專責把他拿過來這個業務其實都沒有辦法做得比經濟部還要好所以我們想現在這樣的模式可能是比較能夠符合照顧到青年在各個面下的需求所以我們就提醒一下就是這個法院有通過之後有專責機關他應該要能夠協調不要讓說好像\n319370\t345050\t有一些業務啊因為移波或什麼反而造成推動比原來更不利啊然後再來針對一些我關心的一些教育問題來跟次長請教一下因為我知道次長是來自於高教是在前一陣子教授提出一個現象他提出一個現象他發現學生的微積分的程度普遍下滑然後他還提到說清大\n346024\t361121\t有很多學生停修演算法這比例非常高到三成那演算法就是跟AI相關這是等於是發展AI的基礎的學科那為什麼教授發現學生的專業程度逐漸下滑是因為108課綱的關係各位報告我先把這個教授的講完\n365526\t383127\t那因為108課剛是高中的時候因為有一些必修課它減少了嘛所以造成基礎學科休息的時數下滑到大學之後就出現這個狀況那不知道次長你有掌握嗎各位委員報告這個資訊是我認為是不對的因為同樣的一個演算法的課在台大資訊系\n384128\t409636\t這個學期停修的比例反而比較低所以這是單一科系的課程的問題但是另外一個就是台大在今年停修的它讓學生可以很晚很晚停修這是台大最近才開放的所以這個規定改變之後的停修的比例這跟去年比跟往年比其實除了這個教授有這個主張之外其實我聽過非常多其他學校的我也跟委員報告等一下\n410976\t428341\t我其實聽過很多大學教授都反映一樣的狀況所以以前我在跟一些大學老師在談說少子化問題的時候他們推說他們現在推一個東西叫接觸學生接觸學生是說怕學生因為跟不上所以導致於可能學習的意願低落 離開學校\n429221\t446327\t所以他們有時候還推一些可能補救教學就是加強學生的一些基礎的學科的能力這個其實不是說只有這個台大教授講我只是把這個現象跟部長講跟次長講那絕大多數的老師反應都是指向108課綱說108課綱因為必修學科減少所以產生這個狀況\n451069\t475956\t那次長你也是來自於高教也許你的意見是不是但是我這邊反映的是很多老師的意見跟委員報告這其實有幾個面向第一個我們現在少子化我們現在新生兒只有30年前的三分之一你從三分之一裡面能不能選到前1%跟以前有三倍人數前1%那當然能力程度會有差別沒有啦這個跟108科有關第二個我在去年跟伯克萊大學的校長\n476856\t506016\t我們面對面見面在談的時候伯克萊大學也有同樣的狀況UC San Diego也有同樣的狀況美國的這些一流帶都有同樣的狀況他們認為這個有幾個原因有世代的差異還有COVID-19疫情市長因為我還有其他的問題要問我們是提醒你現在學校有這種聲音也許你有你的看法但是很多學校的看法不是這樣如果你覺得他們看法不對的話也可以去溝通一下然後再來\n506996\t522308\t問一個這個之前我有關心過的議題就是因為代理教師的職前年資在去年的時候已經當法官已經說教育部的現行的做法違憲那我不知道現在教育部什麼時候要訂定統一的辦法出來我請國教署說明好\n523802\t537119\t新聞報告 我們有找縣市政府討論也取得共識那目前在修代理代課教師篇的辦法那應該會從今年8月1號吧今年8月1號開始所有的職前年資都會因為修辦法 修辦法不是不是 那什麼時候開始續新職前年資開始續新\n540544\t564057\t細項的部分可能我們會後再給委員沒有沒有現在就可以講嘛現在直播大家都在看嘛不好意思因為委員我們督導的副署長沒有來所以我不是督導所以你的意思是說八月份的時候辦法會修出來但其實大家現在關心的不是辦法什麼時候修出來大家關心的是說那到底什麼時候開始實現年資可以納入續薪因為桃園好像已經事先實施了嘛\n564457\t583454\t就基本上在沒有修辦法之前如果縣市政府要做也是可以我知道 當然縣市政府要做可以我現在是說因為教育部的態度跟統一的做法我現在問的是這件事情全國一致性的部分我們就是修辦法修辦法過 辦法發布過後全國各縣市就必須依照辦法就不能再不敘心這件事情\n584355\t604461\t最後再問個問題啦因為最近大家都在討論還假漁民嘛那有一個藍綠白立委都有共識的節日就是教師節然後在幾個禮拜前有一次教團來這邊辦記者會那時候藍綠白的立委都有參加那大家都很支持教師節放假不知道說教育部的立場是怎樣這個我請人事處來說明一下你們現在立場是怎樣\n614002\t629389\t因為這個部分實際上主政是內政部教育部的立場是尊重我知道主政內政部現在是問教師界立場因為其實在去年的上個會期那時候還沒有換卓院長的時候部長是潘文忠\n630129\t657353\t那潘元忠那時候有透露啦我那時候是問的是勞動節因為主要是要幫一些老師他們是保勞保但是不是適用勞基法就是說他們勞動節沒放假那當時那個部長是講說其實人事行政總署有問各單位的意見那教育部其實是支持像這類的老師他在勞動節可以放假所以雖然主責可能是內政部或者是人事行政總署這個都OK我現在問的是教育部的立場支不支持教師節放假\n657998\t674049\t教育部目前實際上對於勞動節跟教師節的部分我們都是屬於支持的立場那這個部分可是要看那個內政部所以到時候如果行政院有問各單位意見的時候教育部有反應說支持這兩個節制是放假的好 謝謝\n","txt":"主席好 麻煩請找教育部政務次長好 我們請葉次長\n今天大家在討論青年搬染基本法我針對兩個問題跟你請教一下第一個是青年定義因為我自己也有提一個版本青年定義是18歲到45歲為什麼是從18歲開始起算是因為12到18歲有兒童及少年福利權益保護法\n那剛好銜接18歲以上那為什麼要到45歲呢因為我們其他的法律包括像是農發條例施行細則他那邊就直接指青年是指18歲以上45歲以下然後我們的青創代管的申請資格也是到45歲以下所以參考其他的法律啦那我的我們的版本是訂18到45歲然後我不曉得說因為現在沒有教育部的版本嘛\n教育部現在規劃你們青年定義是幾歲然後原因是什麼我們目前定義是18到35歲為什麼是到35歲因為我們看其他國家的一些像韓國19歲到34歲大概都是在這個範圍那我們也希望說如果說這個年紀拉得太大的話又會稀釋掉這些資源所以我們大概就是採在國內外大家收集起來大概就是18到35歲是我們現在定的朝你的一個範圍可是你看好像\n清創的貸款還有農發條例他們對於青年定義也包括35歲到45歲嘛所以他們也認為說應該要把資源用在35歲到45歲跟委員報告我想這個有一些我想這個不同的領域啦\n因為現在創業蠻多人確實也是到40歲才開始創業所以在一些不同的業務上面它有一些這樣的彈性我們是覺得這是很OK的未來我們在青年基本法訂了以後我們也會允許我也希望說讓這部位原本它的業務有在照顧的年齡段不會因為青年基本法訂在35歲它像這個地方它就卡到35歲不會我們就讓它原來你的計畫已經在照顧的年段不會受到青年基本法的定義的影響第二個是\n因為我們的法案裡面草案裡面也有定義一個青年的一個組織機關那因為教育部現在有青年發展署嘛所以我想要問次長就是如果這個法通過之後青年發展署它的位階會不會提高或者是說會不會擴充那我這邊提一個比較具體的問題因為我們現在很多地方政府都有設立青年局其實這個都利益良善啦大家都是為了要\n發展青年嘛希望青年可以得到更好的照顧但是它會衍生出一個問題因為青年局成立之後會從其他的局把業務撥過來但有的業務其實在原本的局會比較發展會比較好舉個例子來講像比如說縣市政府的青年局可能會負責青創青年創業但青年創業以前是在經發局那經發局負責青創有一個好處因為他們有很多廠商資源所以可以推廣大手拉小手可是如果把青創的業務移到了\n青年局這個大手拉小手的就沒有辦法在同一個局裡面把它整合起來就變成青年局要跟津巴局協調那局跟局之間協調絕對不會比同一個局裡面業務整合來的有效率所以如果我們推動這個青年發展基本法的話應該要有一個更上位的單位組織去整合協調把青年工作做好那現在教育部未來你們提的版本\n跟委員報告目前我們朝你的版本就是那個專責機關就會未接拉提高到教育部由教育部到專責機關但教育部如果要跟經濟部或者是要跟勞動部協調教育部有辦法\n只會動其他的單位嗎就像委員剛才提到接下來會很多跨部會的橫向協調那這部分我們在基本反應會在訂說由行政院召開跨部會的青年事務協調匯報那這大概是每個大概每三個月開一次那行政院的專責匯報的這個召集人是誰你們現在設定的召集人是誰\n召集的應該是院長尤其是由院長來召集青眼的業務的協調匯報然後把各單位叫來然後業務單位是教育部那你認為這樣子推動的話會不會遇到我剛剛所講的問題\n其實回過頭來也跟委員報告就像委員提到有些事情比如像創業或這些事情其實他應該還是在經濟部來處理會比較好教育部其實或是說不管是任何專責把他拿過來這個業務其實都沒有辦法做得比經濟部還要好所以我們想現在這樣的模式可能是比較能夠符合照顧到青年在各個面下的需求所以我們就提醒一下就是這個法院有通過之後有專責機關他應該要能夠協調不要讓說好像\n有一些業務啊因為移波或什麼反而造成推動比原來更不利啊然後再來針對一些我關心的一些教育問題來跟次長請教一下因為我知道次長是來自於高教是在前一陣子教授提出一個現象他提出一個現象他發現學生的微積分的程度普遍下滑然後他還提到說清大\n有很多學生停修演算法這比例非常高到三成那演算法就是跟AI相關這是等於是發展AI的基礎的學科那為什麼教授發現學生的專業程度逐漸下滑是因為108課綱的關係各位報告我先把這個教授的講完\n那因為108課剛是高中的時候因為有一些必修課它減少了嘛所以造成基礎學科休息的時數下滑到大學之後就出現這個狀況那不知道次長你有掌握嗎各位委員報告這個資訊是我認為是不對的因為同樣的一個演算法的課在台大資訊系\n這個學期停修的比例反而比較低所以這是單一科系的課程的問題但是另外一個就是台大在今年停修的它讓學生可以很晚很晚停修這是台大最近才開放的所以這個規定改變之後的停修的比例這跟去年比跟往年比其實除了這個教授有這個主張之外其實我聽過非常多其他學校的我也跟委員報告等一下\n我其實聽過很多大學教授都反映一樣的狀況所以以前我在跟一些大學老師在談說少子化問題的時候他們推說他們現在推一個東西叫接觸學生接觸學生是說怕學生因為跟不上所以導致於可能學習的意願低落 離開學校\n所以他們有時候還推一些可能補救教學就是加強學生的一些基礎的學科的能力這個其實不是說只有這個台大教授講我只是把這個現象跟部長講跟次長講那絕大多數的老師反應都是指向108課綱說108課綱因為必修學科減少所以產生這個狀況\n那次長你也是來自於高教也許你的意見是不是但是我這邊反映的是很多老師的意見跟委員報告這其實有幾個面向第一個我們現在少子化我們現在新生兒只有30年前的三分之一你從三分之一裡面能不能選到前1%跟以前有三倍人數前1%那當然能力程度會有差別沒有啦這個跟108科有關第二個我在去年跟伯克萊大學的校長\n我們面對面見面在談的時候伯克萊大學也有同樣的狀況UC San Diego也有同樣的狀況美國的這些一流帶都有同樣的狀況他們認為這個有幾個原因有世代的差異還有COVID-19疫情市長因為我還有其他的問題要問我們是提醒你現在學校有這種聲音也許你有你的看法但是很多學校的看法不是這樣如果你覺得他們看法不對的話也可以去溝通一下然後再來\n問一個這個之前我有關心過的議題就是因為代理教師的職前年資在去年的時候已經當法官已經說教育部的現行的做法違憲那我不知道現在教育部什麼時候要訂定統一的辦法出來我請國教署說明好\n新聞報告 我們有找縣市政府討論也取得共識那目前在修代理代課教師篇的辦法那應該會從今年8月1號吧今年8月1號開始所有的職前年資都會因為修辦法 修辦法不是不是 那什麼時候開始續新職前年資開始續新\n細項的部分可能我們會後再給委員沒有沒有現在就可以講嘛現在直播大家都在看嘛不好意思因為委員我們督導的副署長沒有來所以我不是督導所以你的意思是說八月份的時候辦法會修出來但其實大家現在關心的不是辦法什麼時候修出來大家關心的是說那到底什麼時候開始實現年資可以納入續薪因為桃園好像已經事先實施了嘛\n就基本上在沒有修辦法之前如果縣市政府要做也是可以我知道 當然縣市政府要做可以我現在是說因為教育部的態度跟統一的做法我現在問的是這件事情全國一致性的部分我們就是修辦法修辦法過 辦法發布過後全國各縣市就必須依照辦法就不能再不敘心這件事情\n最後再問個問題啦因為最近大家都在討論還假漁民嘛那有一個藍綠白立委都有共識的節日就是教師節然後在幾個禮拜前有一次教團來這邊辦記者會那時候藍綠白的立委都有參加那大家都很支持教師節放假不知道說教育部的立場是怎樣這個我請人事處來說明一下你們現在立場是怎樣\n因為這個部分實際上主政是內政部教育部的立場是尊重我知道主政內政部現在是問教師界立場因為其實在去年的上個會期那時候還沒有換卓院長的時候部長是潘文忠\n那潘元忠那時候有透露啦我那時候是問的是勞動節因為主要是要幫一些老師他們是保勞保但是不是適用勞基法就是說他們勞動節沒放假那當時那個部長是講說其實人事行政總署有問各單位的意見那教育部其實是支持像這類的老師他在勞動節可以放假所以雖然主責可能是內政部或者是人事行政總署這個都OK我現在問的是教育部的立場支不支持教師節放假\n教育部目前實際上對於勞動節跟教師節的部分我們都是屬於支持的立場那這個部分可是要看那個內政部所以到時候如果行政院有問各單位意見的時候教育部有反應說支持這兩個節制是放假的好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:18.051 --> 00:19.838\n主席好麻煩請找教育部政務次長好我們請葉次長\n\n00:30.733 --> 00:42.400\n今天大家在討論青年搬染基本法我針對兩個問題跟你請教一下第一個是青年定義因為我自己也有提一個版本青年定義是18歲到45歲為什麼是從18歲開始起算是因為12到18歲有兒童及少年福利權益保護法\n\n00:51.846 --> 01:18.665\n那剛好銜接18歲以上那為什麼要到45歲呢因為我們其他的法律包括像是農發條例施行細則他那邊就直接指青年是指18歲以上45歲以下然後我們的青創代管的申請資格也是到45歲以下所以參考其他的法律啦那我的我們的版本是訂18到45歲然後我不曉得說因為現在沒有教育部的版本嘛\n\n01:19.125 --> 01:48.708\n教育部現在規劃你們青年定義是幾歲然後原因是什麼我們目前定義是18到35歲為什麼是到35歲因為我們看其他國家的一些像韓國19歲到34歲大概都是在這個範圍那我們也希望說如果說這個年紀拉得太大的話又會稀釋掉這些資源所以我們大概就是採在國內外大家收集起來大概就是18到35歲是我們現在定的朝你的一個範圍可是你看好像\n\n01:49.388 --> 01:55.374\n清創的貸款還有農發條例他們對於青年定義也包括35歲到45歲嘛所以他們也認為說應該要把資源用在35歲到45歲跟委員報告我想這個有一些我想這個不同的領域啦\n\n02:06.185 --> 02:34.474\n因為現在創業蠻多人確實也是到40歲才開始創業所以在一些不同的業務上面它有一些這樣的彈性我們是覺得這是很OK的未來我們在青年基本法訂了以後我們也會允許我也希望說讓這部位原本它的業務有在照顧的年齡段不會因為青年基本法訂在35歲它像這個地方它就卡到35歲不會我們就讓它原來你的計畫已經在照顧的年段不會受到青年基本法的定義的影響第二個是\n\n02:35.214 --> 03:00.520\n因為我們的法案裡面草案裡面也有定義一個青年的一個組織機關那因為教育部現在有青年發展署嘛所以我想要問次長就是如果這個法通過之後青年發展署它的位階會不會提高或者是說會不會擴充那我這邊提一個比較具體的問題因為我們現在很多地方政府都有設立青年局其實這個都利益良善啦大家都是為了要\n\n03:01.540 --> 03:29.639\n發展青年嘛希望青年可以得到更好的照顧但是它會衍生出一個問題因為青年局成立之後會從其他的局把業務撥過來但有的業務其實在原本的局會比較發展會比較好舉個例子來講像比如說縣市政府的青年局可能會負責青創青年創業但青年創業以前是在經發局那經發局負責青創有一個好處因為他們有很多廠商資源所以可以推廣大手拉小手可是如果把青創的業務移到了\n\n03:30.359 --> 03:55.821\n青年局這個大手拉小手的就沒有辦法在同一個局裡面把它整合起來就變成青年局要跟津巴局協調那局跟局之間協調絕對不會比同一個局裡面業務整合來的有效率所以如果我們推動這個青年發展基本法的話應該要有一個更上位的單位組織去整合協調把青年工作做好那現在教育部未來你們提的版本\n\n03:58.123 --> 04:11.700\n跟委員報告目前我們朝你的版本就是那個專責機關就會未接拉提高到教育部由教育部到專責機關但教育部如果要跟經濟部或者是要跟勞動部協調教育部有辦法\n\n04:12.541 --> 04:30.735\n只會動其他的單位嗎就像委員剛才提到接下來會很多跨部會的橫向協調那這部分我們在基本反應會在訂說由行政院召開跨部會的青年事務協調匯報那這大概是每個大概每三個月開一次那行政院的專責匯報的這個召集人是誰你們現在設定的召集人是誰\n\n04:34.634 --> 04:41.223\n召集的應該是院長尤其是由院長來召集青眼的業務的協調匯報然後把各單位叫來然後業務單位是教育部那你認為這樣子推動的話會不會遇到我剛剛所講的問題\n\n04:50.134 --> 05:15.828\n其實回過頭來也跟委員報告就像委員提到有些事情比如像創業或這些事情其實他應該還是在經濟部來處理會比較好教育部其實或是說不管是任何專責把他拿過來這個業務其實都沒有辦法做得比經濟部還要好所以我們想現在這樣的模式可能是比較能夠符合照顧到青年在各個面下的需求所以我們就提醒一下就是這個法院有通過之後有專責機關他應該要能夠協調不要讓說好像\n\n05:19.370 --> 05:45.050\n有一些業務啊因為移波或什麼反而造成推動比原來更不利啊然後再來針對一些我關心的一些教育問題來跟次長請教一下因為我知道次長是來自於高教是在前一陣子教授提出一個現象他提出一個現象他發現學生的微積分的程度普遍下滑然後他還提到說清大\n\n05:46.024 --> 06:01.121\n有很多學生停修演算法這比例非常高到三成那演算法就是跟AI相關這是等於是發展AI的基礎的學科那為什麼教授發現學生的專業程度逐漸下滑是因為108課綱的關係各位報告我先把這個教授的講完\n\n06:05.526 --> 06:23.127\n那因為108課剛是高中的時候因為有一些必修課它減少了嘛所以造成基礎學科休息的時數下滑到大學之後就出現這個狀況那不知道次長你有掌握嗎各位委員報告這個資訊是我認為是不對的因為同樣的一個演算法的課在台大資訊系\n\n06:24.128 --> 06:49.636\n這個學期停修的比例反而比較低所以這是單一科系的課程的問題但是另外一個就是台大在今年停修的它讓學生可以很晚很晚停修這是台大最近才開放的所以這個規定改變之後的停修的比例這跟去年比跟往年比其實除了這個教授有這個主張之外其實我聽過非常多其他學校的我也跟委員報告等一下\n\n06:50.976 --> 07:08.341\n我其實聽過很多大學教授都反映一樣的狀況所以以前我在跟一些大學老師在談說少子化問題的時候他們推說他們現在推一個東西叫接觸學生接觸學生是說怕學生因為跟不上所以導致於可能學習的意願低落離開學校\n\n07:09.221 --> 07:26.327\n所以他們有時候還推一些可能補救教學就是加強學生的一些基礎的學科的能力這個其實不是說只有這個台大教授講我只是把這個現象跟部長講跟次長講那絕大多數的老師反應都是指向108課綱說108課綱因為必修學科減少所以產生這個狀況\n\n07:31.069 --> 07:55.956\n那次長你也是來自於高教也許你的意見是不是但是我這邊反映的是很多老師的意見跟委員報告這其實有幾個面向第一個我們現在少子化我們現在新生兒只有30年前的三分之一你從三分之一裡面能不能選到前1%跟以前有三倍人數前1%那當然能力程度會有差別沒有啦這個跟108科有關第二個我在去年跟伯克萊大學的校長\n\n07:56.856 --> 08:26.016\n我們面對面見面在談的時候伯克萊大學也有同樣的狀況UCSanDiego也有同樣的狀況美國的這些一流帶都有同樣的狀況他們認為這個有幾個原因有世代的差異還有COVID-19疫情市長因為我還有其他的問題要問我們是提醒你現在學校有這種聲音也許你有你的看法但是很多學校的看法不是這樣如果你覺得他們看法不對的話也可以去溝通一下然後再來\n\n08:26.996 --> 08:42.308\n問一個這個之前我有關心過的議題就是因為代理教師的職前年資在去年的時候已經當法官已經說教育部的現行的做法違憲那我不知道現在教育部什麼時候要訂定統一的辦法出來我請國教署說明好\n\n08:43.802 --> 08:57.119\n新聞報告我們有找縣市政府討論也取得共識那目前在修代理代課教師篇的辦法那應該會從今年8月1號吧今年8月1號開始所有的職前年資都會因為修辦法修辦法不是不是那什麼時候開始續新職前年資開始續新\n\n09:00.544 --> 09:24.057\n細項的部分可能我們會後再給委員沒有沒有現在就可以講嘛現在直播大家都在看嘛不好意思因為委員我們督導的副署長沒有來所以我不是督導所以你的意思是說八月份的時候辦法會修出來但其實大家現在關心的不是辦法什麼時候修出來大家關心的是說那到底什麼時候開始實現年資可以納入續薪因為桃園好像已經事先實施了嘛\n\n09:24.457 --> 09:43.454\n就基本上在沒有修辦法之前如果縣市政府要做也是可以我知道當然縣市政府要做可以我現在是說因為教育部的態度跟統一的做法我現在問的是這件事情全國一致性的部分我們就是修辦法修辦法過辦法發布過後全國各縣市就必須依照辦法就不能再不敘心這件事情\n\n09:44.355 --> 10:04.461\n最後再問個問題啦因為最近大家都在討論還假漁民嘛那有一個藍綠白立委都有共識的節日就是教師節然後在幾個禮拜前有一次教團來這邊辦記者會那時候藍綠白的立委都有參加那大家都很支持教師節放假不知道說教育部的立場是怎樣這個我請人事處來說明一下你們現在立場是怎樣\n\n10:14.002 --> 10:29.389\n因為這個部分實際上主政是內政部教育部的立場是尊重我知道主政內政部現在是問教師界立場因為其實在去年的上個會期那時候還沒有換卓院長的時候部長是潘文忠\n\n10:30.129 --> 10:57.353\n那潘元忠那時候有透露啦我那時候是問的是勞動節因為主要是要幫一些老師他們是保勞保但是不是適用勞基法就是說他們勞動節沒放假那當時那個部長是講說其實人事行政總署有問各單位的意見那教育部其實是支持像這類的老師他在勞動節可以放假所以雖然主責可能是內政部或者是人事行政總署這個都OK我現在問的是教育部的立場支不支持教師節放假\n\n10:57.998 --> 11:14.049\n教育部目前實際上對於勞動節跟教師節的部分我們都是屬於支持的立場那這個部分可是要看那個內政部所以到時候如果行政院有問各單位意見的時候教育部有反應說支持這兩個節制是放假的好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":18.051,"end":19.838,"text":"主席好 麻煩請找教育部政務次長好 我們請葉次長"},{"start":30.733,"end":42.4,"text":"今天大家在討論青年搬染基本法我針對兩個問題跟你請教一下第一個是青年定義因為我自己也有提一個版本青年定義是18歲到45歲為什麼是從18歲開始起算是因為12到18歲有兒童及少年福利權益保護法"},{"start":51.846,"end":78.665,"text":"那剛好銜接18歲以上那為什麼要到45歲呢因為我們其他的法律包括像是農發條例施行細則他那邊就直接指青年是指18歲以上45歲以下然後我們的青創代管的申請資格也是到45歲以下所以參考其他的法律啦那我的我們的版本是訂18到45歲然後我不曉得說因為現在沒有教育部的版本嘛"},{"start":79.125,"end":108.708,"text":"教育部現在規劃你們青年定義是幾歲然後原因是什麼我們目前定義是18到35歲為什麼是到35歲因為我們看其他國家的一些像韓國19歲到34歲大概都是在這個範圍那我們也希望說如果說這個年紀拉得太大的話又會稀釋掉這些資源所以我們大概就是採在國內外大家收集起來大概就是18到35歲是我們現在定的朝你的一個範圍可是你看好像"},{"start":109.388,"end":115.374,"text":"清創的貸款還有農發條例他們對於青年定義也包括35歲到45歲嘛所以他們也認為說應該要把資源用在35歲到45歲跟委員報告我想這個有一些我想這個不同的領域啦"},{"start":126.185,"end":154.474,"text":"因為現在創業蠻多人確實也是到40歲才開始創業所以在一些不同的業務上面它有一些這樣的彈性我們是覺得這是很OK的未來我們在青年基本法訂了以後我們也會允許我也希望說讓這部位原本它的業務有在照顧的年齡段不會因為青年基本法訂在35歲它像這個地方它就卡到35歲不會我們就讓它原來你的計畫已經在照顧的年段不會受到青年基本法的定義的影響第二個是"},{"start":155.214,"end":180.52,"text":"因為我們的法案裡面草案裡面也有定義一個青年的一個組織機關那因為教育部現在有青年發展署嘛所以我想要問次長就是如果這個法通過之後青年發展署它的位階會不會提高或者是說會不會擴充那我這邊提一個比較具體的問題因為我們現在很多地方政府都有設立青年局其實這個都利益良善啦大家都是為了要"},{"start":181.54,"end":209.639,"text":"發展青年嘛希望青年可以得到更好的照顧但是它會衍生出一個問題因為青年局成立之後會從其他的局把業務撥過來但有的業務其實在原本的局會比較發展會比較好舉個例子來講像比如說縣市政府的青年局可能會負責青創青年創業但青年創業以前是在經發局那經發局負責青創有一個好處因為他們有很多廠商資源所以可以推廣大手拉小手可是如果把青創的業務移到了"},{"start":210.359,"end":235.821,"text":"青年局這個大手拉小手的就沒有辦法在同一個局裡面把它整合起來就變成青年局要跟津巴局協調那局跟局之間協調絕對不會比同一個局裡面業務整合來的有效率所以如果我們推動這個青年發展基本法的話應該要有一個更上位的單位組織去整合協調把青年工作做好那現在教育部未來你們提的版本"},{"start":238.123,"end":251.7,"text":"跟委員報告目前我們朝你的版本就是那個專責機關就會未接拉提高到教育部由教育部到專責機關但教育部如果要跟經濟部或者是要跟勞動部協調教育部有辦法"},{"start":252.541,"end":270.735,"text":"只會動其他的單位嗎就像委員剛才提到接下來會很多跨部會的橫向協調那這部分我們在基本反應會在訂說由行政院召開跨部會的青年事務協調匯報那這大概是每個大概每三個月開一次那行政院的專責匯報的這個召集人是誰你們現在設定的召集人是誰"},{"start":274.634,"end":281.223,"text":"召集的應該是院長尤其是由院長來召集青眼的業務的協調匯報然後把各單位叫來然後業務單位是教育部那你認為這樣子推動的話會不會遇到我剛剛所講的問題"},{"start":290.134,"end":315.828,"text":"其實回過頭來也跟委員報告就像委員提到有些事情比如像創業或這些事情其實他應該還是在經濟部來處理會比較好教育部其實或是說不管是任何專責把他拿過來這個業務其實都沒有辦法做得比經濟部還要好所以我們想現在這樣的模式可能是比較能夠符合照顧到青年在各個面下的需求所以我們就提醒一下就是這個法院有通過之後有專責機關他應該要能夠協調不要讓說好像"},{"start":319.37,"end":345.05,"text":"有一些業務啊因為移波或什麼反而造成推動比原來更不利啊然後再來針對一些我關心的一些教育問題來跟次長請教一下因為我知道次長是來自於高教是在前一陣子教授提出一個現象他提出一個現象他發現學生的微積分的程度普遍下滑然後他還提到說清大"},{"start":346.024,"end":361.121,"text":"有很多學生停修演算法這比例非常高到三成那演算法就是跟AI相關這是等於是發展AI的基礎的學科那為什麼教授發現學生的專業程度逐漸下滑是因為108課綱的關係各位報告我先把這個教授的講完"},{"start":365.526,"end":383.127,"text":"那因為108課剛是高中的時候因為有一些必修課它減少了嘛所以造成基礎學科休息的時數下滑到大學之後就出現這個狀況那不知道次長你有掌握嗎各位委員報告這個資訊是我認為是不對的因為同樣的一個演算法的課在台大資訊系"},{"start":384.128,"end":409.636,"text":"這個學期停修的比例反而比較低所以這是單一科系的課程的問題但是另外一個就是台大在今年停修的它讓學生可以很晚很晚停修這是台大最近才開放的所以這個規定改變之後的停修的比例這跟去年比跟往年比其實除了這個教授有這個主張之外其實我聽過非常多其他學校的我也跟委員報告等一下"},{"start":410.976,"end":428.341,"text":"我其實聽過很多大學教授都反映一樣的狀況所以以前我在跟一些大學老師在談說少子化問題的時候他們推說他們現在推一個東西叫接觸學生接觸學生是說怕學生因為跟不上所以導致於可能學習的意願低落 離開學校"},{"start":429.221,"end":446.327,"text":"所以他們有時候還推一些可能補救教學就是加強學生的一些基礎的學科的能力這個其實不是說只有這個台大教授講我只是把這個現象跟部長講跟次長講那絕大多數的老師反應都是指向108課綱說108課綱因為必修學科減少所以產生這個狀況"},{"start":451.069,"end":475.956,"text":"那次長你也是來自於高教也許你的意見是不是但是我這邊反映的是很多老師的意見跟委員報告這其實有幾個面向第一個我們現在少子化我們現在新生兒只有30年前的三分之一你從三分之一裡面能不能選到前1%跟以前有三倍人數前1%那當然能力程度會有差別沒有啦這個跟108科有關第二個我在去年跟伯克萊大學的校長"},{"start":476.856,"end":506.016,"text":"我們面對面見面在談的時候伯克萊大學也有同樣的狀況UC San Diego也有同樣的狀況美國的這些一流帶都有同樣的狀況他們認為這個有幾個原因有世代的差異還有COVID-19疫情市長因為我還有其他的問題要問我們是提醒你現在學校有這種聲音也許你有你的看法但是很多學校的看法不是這樣如果你覺得他們看法不對的話也可以去溝通一下然後再來"},{"start":506.996,"end":522.308,"text":"問一個這個之前我有關心過的議題就是因為代理教師的職前年資在去年的時候已經當法官已經說教育部的現行的做法違憲那我不知道現在教育部什麼時候要訂定統一的辦法出來我請國教署說明好"},{"start":523.802,"end":537.119,"text":"新聞報告 我們有找縣市政府討論也取得共識那目前在修代理代課教師篇的辦法那應該會從今年8月1號吧今年8月1號開始所有的職前年資都會因為修辦法 修辦法不是不是 那什麼時候開始續新職前年資開始續新"},{"start":540.544,"end":564.057,"text":"細項的部分可能我們會後再給委員沒有沒有現在就可以講嘛現在直播大家都在看嘛不好意思因為委員我們督導的副署長沒有來所以我不是督導所以你的意思是說八月份的時候辦法會修出來但其實大家現在關心的不是辦法什麼時候修出來大家關心的是說那到底什麼時候開始實現年資可以納入續薪因為桃園好像已經事先實施了嘛"},{"start":564.457,"end":583.454,"text":"就基本上在沒有修辦法之前如果縣市政府要做也是可以我知道 當然縣市政府要做可以我現在是說因為教育部的態度跟統一的做法我現在問的是這件事情全國一致性的部分我們就是修辦法修辦法過 辦法發布過後全國各縣市就必須依照辦法就不能再不敘心這件事情"},{"start":584.355,"end":604.461,"text":"最後再問個問題啦因為最近大家都在討論還假漁民嘛那有一個藍綠白立委都有共識的節日就是教師節然後在幾個禮拜前有一次教團來這邊辦記者會那時候藍綠白的立委都有參加那大家都很支持教師節放假不知道說教育部的立場是怎樣這個我請人事處來說明一下你們現在立場是怎樣"},{"start":614.002,"end":629.389,"text":"因為這個部分實際上主政是內政部教育部的立場是尊重我知道主政內政部現在是問教師界立場因為其實在去年的上個會期那時候還沒有換卓院長的時候部長是潘文忠"},{"start":630.129,"end":657.353,"text":"那潘元忠那時候有透露啦我那時候是問的是勞動節因為主要是要幫一些老師他們是保勞保但是不是適用勞基法就是說他們勞動節沒放假那當時那個部長是講說其實人事行政總署有問各單位的意見那教育部其實是支持像這類的老師他在勞動節可以放假所以雖然主責可能是內政部或者是人事行政總署這個都OK我現在問的是教育部的立場支不支持教師節放假"},{"start":657.998,"end":674.049,"text":"教育部目前實際上對於勞動節跟教師節的部分我們都是屬於支持的立場那這個部分可是要看那個內政部所以到時候如果行政院有問各單位意見的時候教育部有反應說支持這兩個節制是放假的好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":583,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（11時31分）主席好，麻煩請找教育部政務次長。"],["主席：我們請葉次長。"],["葉次長丙成：委員早。"],["葉委員元之：次長早。今天大家討論的是青年發展基本法，我針對2個問題向你請教一下。第一個是青年的定義，因為我自己也提了一個版本，對於青年的定義是18歲到45歲，為什麼是從18歲開始起算呢？因為12歲到18歲有兒童及少年福利權益保護法，剛好可以銜接到18歲以上。為什麼要到45歲呢？根據其他的法律，像是農發條例施行細則直接就指青年是18歲以上、45歲以下，而青創貸款的申請資格也是到45歲以下，在參考其他的法律之後，我們的版本就是訂為18歲至45歲。因為現在沒有教育部的版本，請問教育部現在規劃的青年定義是幾歲？原因是什麼？"],["葉次長丙成：我們目前的定義是18歲到35歲。"],["葉委員元之：為什麼是到35歲？"],["葉次長丙成：其他國家像韓國是19歲到34歲，大概都是在這個range，而且我們認為如果將年紀拉得太大，恐怕會稀釋掉這些資源，根據我們蒐集到的國內外資料，18歲到35歲大概就是我們現在草擬的範圍。"],["葉委員元之：像是青創貸款及農發條例，對於青年的定義也包括35歲到45歲，所以他們也認為應該要把資源用在35歲到45歲。"],["葉次長丙成：報告委員，我想這是不同的領域啦！以創業而言，現在滿多人確實是到40歲才開始創業，所以在不同的業務上保持這樣的彈性，我們覺得是OK的。未來在青年基本法訂定之後，我們也希望這個部會的業務原本照顧的年齡段不會因為青年基本法訂在35歲就因此切到35歲，不會！原本的計畫已經在照顧的年齡段不會受到青年基本法定義的影響。"],["葉委員元之：OK，了解。第二個，在我們的草案中也有定義一個青年的主責機關，因為教育部現在有青年發展署，所以我想要請問次長，如果這個法通過之後，青年發展署的位階會不會提高，或是會不會擴充？我這邊提一個比較具體的問題，現在很多地方政府都有設立青年局，其實這個都是立意良善，大家都希望青年能夠有發展、能夠得到更好的照顧，但是它會衍生出一個問題，因為青年局成立之後會從其他的局將業務撥過來，但有的業務其實是在原本的局發展會比較好，舉個例子來講，譬如縣市政府的青年局可能會負責青年創業，但是青年創業以前是由經發局負責，其實經發局負責青創有一個好處，因為他們有很多廠商資源，可以推廣大手拉小手，如果將青創業務移到青年局，這個大手拉小手就無法在同一個局裡整合起來，變成青年局要與經發局協調，局與局之間協調絕對不會比同一個局裡的業務整合來得有效率。如果我們推動青年發展基本法就應該要有一個更上位的單位、組織去整合協調，把青年工作做好，教育部未來提的版本是如何規劃？"],["葉次長丙成：報告委員，目前我們草擬版本的專責機關是將位階提高至教育部，由教育部擔任專責機關。"],["葉委員元之：如果必須與經濟部、勞動部等相關部會協調時，教育部有辦法指揮得動其他單位嗎？"],["葉次長丙成：誠如剛剛委員所提，接下來會有很多跨部會的橫向協調，針對這個部分，我們會在基本法中訂定由行政院召開跨部會的青年事務協調會報，大概是每三個月會召開一次。"],["葉委員元之：行政院專責會報的召集人是誰？你們現在設定的召集人是誰？"],["葉次長丙成：召集人應該是院長。"],["葉委員元之：由院長召集青年業務協調會報，把各單位召集過來，業務單位則是教育部。"],["葉次長丙成：對。"],["葉委員元之：你認為這樣推動是否會遇到我剛才所講的問題？"],["葉次長丙成：報告委員，就像委員提到的，有些事情，譬如創業還是由經濟部處理會比較好，無論是任何專責單位，把這個業務拿過來其實都沒辦法做得比經濟部還要好，所以我們認為現在這樣的模式比較能夠照顧到青年在各個面向的需求。"],["葉委員元之：我們是再提醒一下啦！"],["葉次長丙成：是。"],["葉委員元之：在這部法通過之後會有專責機關，它應該是要能夠負責協調，不要讓有些業務因為移撥或其他因素導致推動得比原本更不力。"],["葉次長丙成：是。"],["葉委員元之：再來是針對我關心的一些教育問題向次長請教一下，我知道次長是來自於高教，前陣子有臺大教授提出一個現象，他發現學生的微積分程度普遍下滑，也提到清大有很多學生停修演算法，這個比例非常高，達到了三成之多。演算法其實是與AI相關，等於是發展AI的基礎學科，為什麼教授發現學生的專業程度逐漸下滑？其實是因為108課綱的關係……"],["葉次長丙成：報告委員……"],["葉委員元之：我先把這個教授的看法講完。"],["葉次長丙成：好。"],["葉委員元之：因為108課綱將高中的一些必修課減少，造成基礎學科修習的時數下滑，到了大學之後就會出現這個狀況，不知道次長是否有掌握嗎？"],["葉次長丙成：報告委員，我認為這個資訊是不對的。"],["葉委員元之：不對的？"],["葉次長丙成：同樣一個演算法的課在臺大資訊系這學期停修的比例反而比較低，所以這是單一科系的課程問題。另外一個是臺大今年讓學生可以很晚很晚才停修，這是臺大今年才開放的做法，在規定改變之後的停修比例與去年相比並沒有這麼……"],["葉委員元之：除了這位教授有這個主張之外，其實我也聽過非常多其他學校的……"],["葉次長丙成：報告委員……"],["葉委員元之：其實我聽過很多大學教授都反映一樣的狀況，因此，以前我與一些大學老師談到少子化問題的時候，他們說現在推出了所謂的接觸學生，怕學生會因為跟不上導致學習意願低落而離開學校，所以他們有時候還推一些補救教學，加強學生的基礎學科能力。其實並不是只有臺大教授提出這樣的看法，我只是把這個現象告訴次長，絕大多數老師的反映都是指向108課綱。"],["葉次長丙成：報告委員，不是……"],["葉委員元之：因為108課綱的必修學科減少才會產生這個狀況，次長，你也是來自於高教，也許你認為並不是如此，但我這邊反映的是很多老師的意見。"],["葉次長丙成：報告委員，這個部分其實有幾個面向，第一個是少子化，我們現在的新生兒只有30年前的三分之一，從三分之一裡面選到前1%，與以前有3倍的前1%，當然在能力上、程度上會有差別，與108課綱完全沒有關係。第二個，去年我與柏克萊大學的校長見面時談到，柏克萊大學也有同樣的狀況、UC聖地牙哥也有同樣的狀況、美國的一流大學都有同樣的狀況，他們認為有幾個原因，包括世代的差異、COVID的疫情……"],["葉委員元之：我還有其他的問題要問，剛才只是提醒你，在學校有這樣的聲音，也許你有你的看法，但是很多學校的看法不是如此，如果你覺得他們的看法不對，也可以去溝通一下。"],["葉次長丙成：是，我們會再溝通。"],["葉委員元之：再來要問一個之前我關心過的議題，關於代理教師的職前年資，去年大法官已經表示教育部現行的作法違憲，不知道教育部什麼時候會訂定出統一的辦法？"],["葉次長丙成：我請國教署來說明。"],["葉委員元之：好。"],["許副署長麗娟：報告委員，我們已經找縣市政府討論、也已經取得了共識，目前正在修代理代課教師評量辦法，應該會從今年8月1日開始。"],["葉委員元之：今年8月1日開始，所有的職前年資都會……"],["許副署長麗娟：修辦法。"],["葉委員元之：什麼時候開始敘薪？職前年資開始敘薪？"],["許副署長麗娟：細項的部分可能會後再提供給委員。"],["葉委員元之：現在就可以講嘛！現在正在直播，大家都在看嘛！"],["許副署長麗娟：不好意思！因為我們督導的副署長不一樣。"],["葉委員元之：沒有來？"],["許副署長麗娟：我不是督導這項業務。"],["葉委員元之：你是說這項辦法會在8月修出來，但是大家現在關心的不是辦法什麼時候修出來，而是職前年資到底什麼時候可以開始納入敘薪，因為桃園好像已經事先實施了。"],["許副署長麗娟：基本上，在還沒有修訂辦法之前，如果縣市政府要做也是可以，但是就全國一致性……"],["葉委員元之：我知道當然是可以，但是現在我問的是教育部的態度及統一的做法。"],["許副署長麗娟：針對全國一致性的部分，我們就是要修訂辦法，如果辦法發布之後，全國各縣市就必須依照辦法，不能再有不敘薪的這件事情。"],["葉委員元之：最後再問一個問題，因為最近大家都在討論還假於民，有一個藍、綠、白立委都有共識的節日，也就是教師節，在幾個禮拜前，有一次教團來這邊辦記者會，那時候藍、綠、白的立委都有參加，大家都很支持教師節放假，不知道教育部的立場是怎樣？"],["葉次長丙成：這個問題我請人事處來說明一下。"],["葉委員元之：你們現在的立場是怎樣？"],["黃副處長弘君：報告委員會，這個部分實際上主政是內政部，教育部的立場是尊重。"],["葉委員元之：我知道主政是內政部，現在是問教育部的立場。其實在去年的上個會期，那時候還沒有換卓院長的時候，部長是潘文忠，潘文忠那時候有透露，我那時候問的是勞動節，因為主要是要幫一些老師，他們是保勞保，但是不是適用勞基法，就是說他們勞動節沒放假。當時部長是說，其實人事行政總處有問各單位的意見，那教育部其實是支持，像這類的老師在勞動節可以放假。雖然主責可能是內政部或是人事行政總處，這個都OK，我現在問的是教育部的立場，支不支持教師節放假？"],["黃副處長弘君：教育部目前實際上對於勞動節跟教師節的部分，我們都是屬於支持的立場。"],["葉委員元之：支持教師節放假。"],["黃副處長弘君：這個部分要看內政部……"],["葉委員元之：我知道，所以到時候如果行政院有問各單位意見的時候，教育部也會反映說支持這兩個節是放假的，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葉元之委員。次長請回，我們接下來請羅廷瑋委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":310,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-2","speakers":["林宜瑾","黃捷","林楚茵","陳秀寳","吳沛憶","葛如鈞","羅廷瑋","林德福","柯志恩","萬美玲","林沛祥","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","郭昱晴","葉元之","范雲","吳思瑤","邱志偉","陳培瑜","李坤城"],"page_start":253,"meetingDate":["2025-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1142601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142601_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；二、審查委員林楚茵等21人擬具「青年基\n本法草案」案；三、審查委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；四、審查委員吳思瑤等\n47人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；五、審查委員陳培瑜等17人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；六、\n審查委員范雲等16人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；七、審查委員陳秀寳等21人擬具「青年基本法\n草案」案；八、審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；九、審查委員王美惠等17人\n擬具「青年基本法草案」案；十、審查委員郭昱晴等18人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；十一、審\n查委員林月琴等19人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；十二、審查委員葛如鈞等19人擬具「青年基本\n法草案」案；十三、審查委員李坤城等19人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；十四、審查委員魯明哲\n等17人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；十五、審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；\n十六、審查委員葉元之等 20 人擬具「青年基本法草案」案；十七、審查委員林德福等 20 人擬具\n「青年發展基本法草案」案；十八、審查委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「青年基本法草案」案 (僅進行\n詢答)","agenda_id":"1142601_00009"}}}