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768.532, \"end\": 769.733, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 769.733, \"end\": 769.893, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 769.893, \"end\": 770.233, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"達\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 770.233, \"end\": 771.353, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 771.353, \"end\": 771.554, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"需\", \"start\": 771.554, \"end\": 771.674, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 771.674, \"end\": 771.814, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 771.814, \"end\": 771.934, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 771.934, \"end\": 772.094, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 772.094, \"end\": 772.234, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 772.234, \"end\": 772.554, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"努\", \"start\": 772.554, \"end\": 772.734, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 772.734, \"end\": 773.334, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 773.334, \"end\": 773.835, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 773.835, \"end\": 773.975, \"score\": 0.74}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 773.975, \"end\": 774.075, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 774.075, \"end\": 774.215, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"王\", \"start\": 774.215, \"end\": 774.515, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 774.515, \"end\": 774.575, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 774.575, \"end\": 774.595, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,135 --> 00:00:12,269\n好非常感謝主席我們就請邱部長好請邱部長\n\n2\n00:00:18,499 --> 00:00:39,143\n委員好部長好剛剛聽了我們召委一席話自己驚喜啦因為的確得到這個榮譽是不容易而且經過一次這麼大的一個事件能夠趕快站起來持續服務當地的民眾應該是當務之急啦要先打拚了\n\n3\n00:00:39,844 --> 00:00:53,480\n那今天的主題其實是真的很重要因為這是目前讓所有民眾感受到他在這個接近醫療裡面要怎麼改革自己這個身體健康疾病照顧的問題那\n\n4\n00:00:55,763 --> 00:01:14,142\n所以還是能夠透過這個機會請部長再來多一些說明包括在3月3號部長也針對於這個醫院造成這個庸篩還有護理同仁離職的一些部分做相關的說明\n\n5\n00:01:14,682 --> 00:01:33,461\n包括就有這個三短兩長的措施跟計畫來應應那這樣的急診就診人次就開始慢慢趨緩後來現在是三短兩長不是三長兩短所以能夠把事情做得更順利一點\n\n6\n00:01:34,202 --> 00:01:54,262\n那這個部分我們也了解這個你的三短裡面是包括三項這個大家已經都討論過很多次了很多內容今天都已經很了解那中長期的部分剛剛也有很多委員就叫了這個部長有關護理人力還有這個健保支付標準等等\n\n7\n00:01:55,223 --> 00:02:23,718\n不過還是要請部長或者是相關同仁再度的確認一下這些原因到底哪一個是最重要的哪一個是次要的哪一些是相關的因為我們知道做研究的話透過很多因素或者是一些數據的分析才有辦法去找出最重要跟其他相關的因子\n\n8\n00:02:24,498 --> 00:02:45,436\n你這樣未來在做改善的時候才能夠真的有辦法針對一些因素做改善所以部長這部分你看美納分析早有機會找出這個最重要的相關因子或者是最重要的因素來做未來改善的一個基礎\n\n9\n00:02:46,348 --> 00:03:00,881\n好是的我想它的原因應該是剛剛委員所列出來的這些都有可能是有相關的因素那是不是在當然啦我們如果在研究當然有significant的\n\n10\n00:03:03,292 --> 00:03:17,311\n有意義的影響因子或者是有影響因子但是他不到達統計書記當然是在研究的領域但是只要有可能影響的我們都會抓出來來分析來處理包括這裡應該要多一個\n\n11\n00:03:18,653 --> 00:03:33,527\n那個分級醫療是不是沒有落實這樣子那護理能力不足當然是我想是大家公認的啦因為如果能夠傳輸開得更多一點的話是不是可以減緩\n\n12\n00:03:36,693 --> 00:04:01,550\n那當然門診預約住院床位的分配失衡這個就要看醫院的屬性了啦像我譬如說我去跟台大醫院的大家高層朋友談的時候他說他們的內科主任說我的門診也都很重很嚴重啊我不是說趁差就讓他去斷癮啊\n\n13\n00:04:02,791 --> 00:04:05,536\n這也是我們要幫你做參考啦我意思是說但是這個有在打扮這個有在處理可利用的床位不足這個部分\n\n14\n00:04:15,950 --> 00:04:44,118\n當然包括說我們是不是好好的應用那我們原來是希望院長去處理那昨天我們跟醫療工會我們敬佩他們提出從護理基層的角度來提出一個一個指引我覺得站在專業的角度上我們非常重視也跟他們取得共識要研究把這個指引就是說你怎麼讓他們的床可以更加靈活我們要聽護理界的指引那\n\n15\n00:04:44,998 --> 00:05:01,674\n另外當然是Infection這個感染這個部分我想在這個孤單期間都會比較有啦所以這些都是原因而且都是要去改善能預防的就預防能解決的就一步一步來解決\n\n16\n00:05:02,486 --> 00:05:13,295\n好因為我們也知道在短期有時候沒有辦法抓到那麼多的數據的話這個我們應該來分析數據啦我覺得有幾種的他們來的一個型態我們再來分析一下對所以其實我們是很建議啦針對於\n\n17\n00:05:24,025 --> 00:05:38,197\n剛剛的那些問題然後特別去分析我們所列舉出來的不管是造成這個擁塞的疾病類型醫院的層級還有在聽您早上的報告裡面也有備案嘛這備案是怎樣這次\n\n18\n00:05:40,779 --> 00:06:02,799\n發揮不了它的作用以前好像都可以透過備案ABC來解決在過年期間這個狀況今年是發生什麼問題沒有辦法讓備案發生那個效果這個就麻煩到時候在一個月左右一個月內可不可以讓我們知道這個分析的結果我們徹底來分析再跟委員報告\n\n19\n00:06:03,419 --> 00:06:25,067\nOK好拜託一下因為這個是對於未來的這個改善應該是我們一定要徹底改善是那另外針對於這個護理人力跟薪資跟流財的部分剛剛也討論了非常多那不知道蔡市長有沒有注意到有這一則公會提供給會員們\n\n20\n00:06:27,148 --> 00:06:53,349\n他們如何在目前的離職草裡面早上剛剛有很多委員說要擺這一點點以上才能夠有機會去跟主管討論離職的部分那這個我們也相信工會是為了他的會員希望能夠針對於一些做法提供一些參考包括說怎麼樣禁書離職的一些好方法或者是適當的方式等等\n\n21\n00:06:53,769 --> 00:07:15,376\n他也提醒在這個過程裡面要注意哪一些的事情包括說如果是想要免排隊就要離職的話是可以怎麼做不過這個是基本上是根據這個勞動基準法第14條的一些處理模式因為他有規定勞工的不經過預告終止契約因為我們知道\n\n22\n00:07:16,536 --> 00:07:41,393\n在這個勞動契約裡面都會宰明說如果要離職的話應該要經過什麼樣的程序嗎博文市長有沒有掌握到相關的信息有有有這個就是工會的這個網頁或是說現在各個工會因為他們要護理人員要異動都要到工會裡面去辦理這個這個不管是進來或是離開或是異動都要辦理那我們跟\n\n23\n00:07:45,217 --> 00:08:12,688\n這個都同步在這個資訊的取得資訊的了解掌握上我們都知道委員剛才提的這個我們也知道有有這樣的一個訊息不過目前如果說有一些同仁是透過這個方式離職的話其實他必須要透過掌握這個固執違法事證才能夠達到這個做法的一個基本要求\n\n24\n00:08:13,448 --> 00:08:29,564\n所以假設真的是這樣做而且人數越來越明顯的話可能也要提醒大家有關於勞工的院方的應變還有在這個造成的一些影響這個都要麻煩市長或者是部長這邊要多多留意\n\n25\n00:08:30,507 --> 00:08:53,874\n我們一定不斷的改善護理的跟醫院來合作啦不斷改善我們醫護的待遇跟醫療的環境那當然那個只要他們在牢記法之下我們都尊重嘛但是我們努力的是能夠留任把那種環境待遇能夠盡量的做好\n\n26\n00:08:54,994 --> 00:09:23,473\n能夠來留任留任更多的護理人力能夠在職場我們共同來照顧病人這是我們的最重要的努力目標因為如果透過這個方法造成離職的話其實對於這位護理同仁來講他很難再回到職場因為這個是一個不愉快過程的話造成影響其實是會蠻影響力會蠻強的所以針對這個改善計畫裡面我們提了一些建議提供給市長跟部長這邊參考\n\n27\n00:09:24,734 --> 00:09:50,507\n就是真的要督導各個醫院要遵守勞動法令跟勞動契約那這個過程必須要真的要去重視他的心聲啦要有好的協商平台跟管道當然很多資訊需要持續的公開透明才能夠讓他們瞭解也避免誤解跟正義這部分也麻煩所以非常好的建議我們一定要醫院來落實是好再來\n\n28\n00:09:54,450 --> 00:10:23,177\n來往下還有一個小議題那麻煩我們這個食藥署江署長因為最近有在討論這個事後必應藥到底要不要從處方用藥轉到指示用藥可能可以跟其他國家有一些使用上的符合不過也有很多的團體很擔心這樣的調整會造成哪一些的影響\n\n29\n00:10:23,957 --> 00:10:45,345\n所以不知道最近所開會裡面有沒有去掌握到目前這個藥物的使用狀況還有有沒有相關的健康風險的評估那當然現在還很難馬上就做了確定或決定不過如果真的開放以後那造成影響可能需要去面臨的衝擊\n\n30\n00:10:46,605 --> 00:10:58,325\n那有沒有辦法去做好健康最終或者是實名制的可能性那這部分不知道署長有沒有一些現在的一些想法或者是未來的做法提供給大家做參考\n\n31\n00:11:01,092 --> 00:11:25,229\n謝謝委員的提問這都非常關鍵的問題我們在上個禮拜四我們召集了111號人民團體其實有兩位學生以及相關的法規的提到了一個很重要的關鍵那目前我們看到所有的所謂指示用藥的轉類這個過程當中我們有一定的標準那陳委員在現場也非常非常關心\n\n32\n00:11:25,889 --> 00:11:49,397\n我們針對這個議題之後藥界藥師公會裡面也提出他們的想法那也覺得說很多的承諾我們覺得非常非常的有準備那醫界的部分也有提到他們有一點擔心那家長團體裡面特別有一位家長團體他本身對於所謂子宮內膜癌跟乳癌在臨床上面看到的一些些擔心\n\n33\n00:11:50,117 --> 00:12:11,510\n加上學生團體裡面他特別針對他受到的教育跟配套他也覺得說希望我們能夠精進那此外呢各個國家裡面我們鄰近的日本其實也進入了所謂研議這個階段所以我們調處整個的一個過程當中我們覺得很重要的調和蠻重要的我們的經驗是需要去確認的\n\n34\n00:12:12,651 --> 00:12:38,907\n那大家擔心的這一塊我覺得是可以有一個很重要的區域聯防的概念所以我們馬上有責成我們藥品組這邊思考如何去做台灣特殊的經驗跟調處各方能夠得到一個最適切的一個方案那目前持續在積極在研擬當中所以我想在不久的將來我想我們的經驗是會讓大家看到我們的處理是最圓滿的以上\n\n35\n00:12:40,208 --> 00:12:54,595\n好非常謝謝署長的說明因為我們看最後一張發動片知道說的確用藥安全還有身體自主權如何達到是需要大家共同來努力好謝謝署長也謝謝署長謝謝王委員謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6135\t12269\t好 非常感謝主席我們就請邱部長好 請邱部長\n18499\t39143\t委員好部長好剛剛聽了我們召委一席話自己驚喜啦因為的確得到這個榮譽是不容易而且經過一次這麼大的一個事件能夠趕快站起來持續服務當地的民眾應該是當務之急啦要先打拚了\n39844\t53480\t那今天的主題其實是真的很重要因為這是目前讓所有民眾感受到他在這個接近醫療裡面要怎麼改革自己這個身體健康疾病照顧的問題那\n55763\t74142\t所以還是能夠透過這個機會請部長再來多一些說明包括在3月3號部長也針對於這個醫院造成這個庸篩還有護理同仁離職的一些部分做相關的說明\n74682\t93461\t包括就有這個三短兩長的措施跟計畫來應應那這樣的急診就診人次就開始慢慢趨緩後來現在是三短兩長不是三長兩短所以能夠把事情做得更順利一點\n94202\t114262\t那這個部分我們也了解這個你的三短裡面是包括三項這個大家已經都討論過很多次了很多內容今天都已經很了解那中長期的部分剛剛也有很多委員就叫了這個部長有關護理人力還有這個健保支付標準等等\n115223\t143718\t不過還是要請部長或者是相關同仁再度的確認一下這些原因到底哪一個是最重要的哪一個是次要的哪一些是相關的因為我們知道做研究的話透過很多因素或者是一些數據的分析才有辦法去找出最重要跟其他相關的因子\n144498\t165436\t你這樣未來在做改善的時候才能夠真的有辦法針對一些因素做改善所以部長這部分你看美納分析早有機會找出這個最重要的相關因子或者是最重要的因素來做未來改善的一個基礎\n166348\t180881\t好 是的 我想它的原因應該是剛剛委員所列出來的這些都有可能是有相關的因素那是不是在 當然啦我們如果在研究當然有significant的\n183292\t197311\t有意義的影響因子或者是有影響因子但是他不到達統計書記當然是在研究的領域但是只要有可能影響的我們都會抓出來來分析來處理包括這裡應該要多一個\n198653\t213527\t那個分級醫療是不是沒有落實這樣子那護理能力不足當然是我想是大家公認的啦因為如果能夠傳輸開得更多一點的話是不是可以減緩\n216693\t241550\t那當然門診預約住院床位的分配失衡這個就要看醫院的屬性了啦像我譬如說我去跟台大醫院的大家高層朋友談的時候他說他們的內科主任說我的門診也都很重很嚴重啊我不是說趁差就讓他去斷癮啊\n242791\t245536\t這也是我們要幫你做參考啦我意思是說 但是這個有在打扮這個有在處理 可利用的床位不足這個部分\n255950\t284118\t當然包括說我們是不是好好的應用那我們原來是希望院長去處理那昨天我們跟醫療工會我們敬佩他們提出從護理基層的角度來提出一個一個指引我覺得站在專業的角度上我們非常重視也跟他們取得共識要研究把這個指引就是說你怎麼讓他們的床可以更加靈活我們要聽護理界的指引那\n284998\t301674\t另外當然是Infection這個感染這個部分我想在這個孤單期間都會比較有啦所以這些都是原因而且都是要去改善能預防的就預防能解決的就一步一步來解決\n302486\t313295\t好因為我們也知道在短期有時候沒有辦法抓到那麼多的數據的話這個我們應該來分析數據啦我覺得有幾種的他們來的一個型態我們再來分析一下對所以其實我們是很建議啦針對於\n324025\t338197\t剛剛的那些問題然後特別去分析我們所列舉出來的不管是造成這個擁塞的疾病類型醫院的層級還有在聽您早上的報告裡面也有備案嘛這備案是怎樣這次\n340779\t362799\t發揮不了它的作用以前好像都可以透過備案ABC來解決在過年期間這個狀況今年是發生什麼問題沒有辦法讓備案發生那個效果這個就麻煩到時候在一個月左右一個月內可不可以讓我們知道這個分析的結果我們徹底來分析再跟委員報告\n363419\t385067\tOK好拜託一下因為這個是對於未來的這個改善應該是我們一定要徹底改善是那另外針對於這個護理人力跟薪資跟流財的部分剛剛也討論了非常多那不知道蔡市長有沒有注意到有這一則公會提供給會員們\n387148\t413349\t他們如何在目前的離職草裡面早上剛剛有很多委員說要擺這一點點以上才能夠有機會去跟主管討論離職的部分那這個我們也相信工會是為了他的會員希望能夠針對於一些做法提供一些參考包括說怎麼樣禁書離職的一些好方法或者是適當的方式等等\n413769\t435376\t他也提醒在這個過程裡面要注意哪一些的事情包括說如果是想要免排隊就要離職的話是可以怎麼做不過這個是基本上是根據這個勞動基準法第14條的一些處理模式因為他有規定勞工的不經過預告終止契約因為我們知道\n436536\t461393\t在這個勞動契約裡面都會宰明說如果要離職的話應該要經過什麼樣的程序嗎博文市長有沒有掌握到相關的信息有有有這個就是工會的這個網頁或是說現在各個工會因為他們要護理人員要異動都要到工會裡面去辦理這個這個不管是進來或是離開或是異動都要辦理那我們跟\n465217\t492688\t這個都同步在這個資訊的取得資訊的了解掌握上我們都知道委員剛才提的這個我們也知道有有這樣的一個訊息不過目前如果說有一些同仁是透過這個方式離職的話其實他必須要透過掌握這個固執違法事證才能夠達到這個做法的一個基本要求\n493448\t509564\t所以假設真的是這樣做而且人數越來越明顯的話可能也要提醒大家有關於勞工的院方的應變還有在這個造成的一些影響這個都要麻煩市長或者是部長這邊要多多留意\n510507\t533874\t我們一定不斷的改善護理的跟醫院來合作啦不斷改善我們醫護的待遇跟醫療的環境那當然那個只要他們在牢記法之下我們都尊重嘛但是我們努力的是能夠留任把那種環境待遇能夠盡量的做好\n534994\t563473\t能夠來留任留任更多的護理人力能夠在職場我們共同來照顧病人這是我們的最重要的努力目標因為如果透過這個方法造成離職的話其實對於這位護理同仁來講他很難再回到職場因為這個是一個不愉快過程的話造成影響其實是會蠻影響力會蠻強的所以針對這個改善計畫裡面我們提了一些建議提供給市長跟部長這邊參考\n564734\t590507\t就是真的要督導各個醫院要遵守勞動法令跟勞動契約那這個過程必須要真的要去重視他的心聲啦要有好的協商平台跟管道當然很多資訊需要持續的公開透明才能夠讓他們瞭解也避免誤解跟正義這部分也麻煩所以非常好的建議我們一定要醫院來落實是好 再來\n594450\t623177\t來往下還有一個小議題那麻煩我們這個食藥署江署長因為最近有在討論這個事後必應藥到底要不要從處方用藥轉到指示用藥可能可以跟其他國家有一些使用上的符合不過也有很多的團體很擔心這樣的調整會造成哪一些的影響\n623957\t645345\t所以不知道最近所開會裡面有沒有去掌握到目前這個藥物的使用狀況還有有沒有相關的健康風險的評估那當然現在還很難馬上就做了確定或決定不過如果真的開放以後那造成影響可能需要去面臨的衝擊\n646605\t658325\t那有沒有辦法去做好健康最終或者是實名制的可能性那這部分不知道署長有沒有一些現在的一些想法或者是未來的做法提供給大家做參考\n661092\t685229\t謝謝委員的提問這都非常關鍵的問題我們在上個禮拜四我們召集了111號人民團體其實有兩位學生以及相關的法規的提到了一個很重要的關鍵那目前我們看到所有的所謂指示用藥的轉類這個過程當中我們有一定的標準那陳委員在現場也非常非常關心\n685889\t709397\t我們針對這個議題之後藥界藥師公會裡面也提出他們的想法那也覺得說很多的承諾我們覺得非常非常的有準備那醫界的部分也有提到他們有一點擔心那家長團體裡面特別有一位家長團體他本身對於所謂子宮內膜癌跟乳癌在臨床上面看到的一些些擔心\n710117\t731510\t加上學生團體裡面他特別針對他受到的教育跟配套他也覺得說希望我們能夠精進那此外呢各個國家裡面我們鄰近的日本其實也進入了所謂研議這個階段所以我們調處整個的一個過程當中我們覺得很重要的調和蠻重要的我們的經驗是需要去確認的\n732651\t758907\t那大家擔心的這一塊我覺得是可以有一個很重要的區域聯防的概念所以我們馬上有責成我們藥品組這邊思考如何去做台灣特殊的經驗跟調處各方能夠得到一個最適切的一個方案那目前持續在積極在研擬當中所以我想在不久的將來我想我們的經驗是會讓大家看到我們的處理是最圓滿的 以上\n760208\t774595\t好 非常謝謝署長的說明因為我們看最後一張發動片知道說的確用藥安全還有身體自主權如何達到是需要大家共同來努力好 謝謝署長也謝謝署長謝謝王委員 謝謝部長\n","txt":"好 非常感謝主席我們就請邱部長好 請邱部長\n委員好部長好剛剛聽了我們召委一席話自己驚喜啦因為的確得到這個榮譽是不容易而且經過一次這麼大的一個事件能夠趕快站起來持續服務當地的民眾應該是當務之急啦要先打拚了\n那今天的主題其實是真的很重要因為這是目前讓所有民眾感受到他在這個接近醫療裡面要怎麼改革自己這個身體健康疾病照顧的問題那\n所以還是能夠透過這個機會請部長再來多一些說明包括在3月3號部長也針對於這個醫院造成這個庸篩還有護理同仁離職的一些部分做相關的說明\n包括就有這個三短兩長的措施跟計畫來應應那這樣的急診就診人次就開始慢慢趨緩後來現在是三短兩長不是三長兩短所以能夠把事情做得更順利一點\n那這個部分我們也了解這個你的三短裡面是包括三項這個大家已經都討論過很多次了很多內容今天都已經很了解那中長期的部分剛剛也有很多委員就叫了這個部長有關護理人力還有這個健保支付標準等等\n不過還是要請部長或者是相關同仁再度的確認一下這些原因到底哪一個是最重要的哪一個是次要的哪一些是相關的因為我們知道做研究的話透過很多因素或者是一些數據的分析才有辦法去找出最重要跟其他相關的因子\n你這樣未來在做改善的時候才能夠真的有辦法針對一些因素做改善所以部長這部分你看美納分析早有機會找出這個最重要的相關因子或者是最重要的因素來做未來改善的一個基礎\n好 是的 我想它的原因應該是剛剛委員所列出來的這些都有可能是有相關的因素那是不是在 當然啦我們如果在研究當然有significant的\n有意義的影響因子或者是有影響因子但是他不到達統計書記當然是在研究的領域但是只要有可能影響的我們都會抓出來來分析來處理包括這裡應該要多一個\n那個分級醫療是不是沒有落實這樣子那護理能力不足當然是我想是大家公認的啦因為如果能夠傳輸開得更多一點的話是不是可以減緩\n那當然門診預約住院床位的分配失衡這個就要看醫院的屬性了啦像我譬如說我去跟台大醫院的大家高層朋友談的時候他說他們的內科主任說我的門診也都很重很嚴重啊我不是說趁差就讓他去斷癮啊\n這也是我們要幫你做參考啦我意思是說 但是這個有在打扮這個有在處理 可利用的床位不足這個部分\n當然包括說我們是不是好好的應用那我們原來是希望院長去處理那昨天我們跟醫療工會我們敬佩他們提出從護理基層的角度來提出一個一個指引我覺得站在專業的角度上我們非常重視也跟他們取得共識要研究把這個指引就是說你怎麼讓他們的床可以更加靈活我們要聽護理界的指引那\n另外當然是Infection這個感染這個部分我想在這個孤單期間都會比較有啦所以這些都是原因而且都是要去改善能預防的就預防能解決的就一步一步來解決\n好因為我們也知道在短期有時候沒有辦法抓到那麼多的數據的話這個我們應該來分析數據啦我覺得有幾種的他們來的一個型態我們再來分析一下對所以其實我們是很建議啦針對於\n剛剛的那些問題然後特別去分析我們所列舉出來的不管是造成這個擁塞的疾病類型醫院的層級還有在聽您早上的報告裡面也有備案嘛這備案是怎樣這次\n發揮不了它的作用以前好像都可以透過備案ABC來解決在過年期間這個狀況今年是發生什麼問題沒有辦法讓備案發生那個效果這個就麻煩到時候在一個月左右一個月內可不可以讓我們知道這個分析的結果我們徹底來分析再跟委員報告\nOK好拜託一下因為這個是對於未來的這個改善應該是我們一定要徹底改善是那另外針對於這個護理人力跟薪資跟流財的部分剛剛也討論了非常多那不知道蔡市長有沒有注意到有這一則公會提供給會員們\n他們如何在目前的離職草裡面早上剛剛有很多委員說要擺這一點點以上才能夠有機會去跟主管討論離職的部分那這個我們也相信工會是為了他的會員希望能夠針對於一些做法提供一些參考包括說怎麼樣禁書離職的一些好方法或者是適當的方式等等\n他也提醒在這個過程裡面要注意哪一些的事情包括說如果是想要免排隊就要離職的話是可以怎麼做不過這個是基本上是根據這個勞動基準法第14條的一些處理模式因為他有規定勞工的不經過預告終止契約因為我們知道\n在這個勞動契約裡面都會宰明說如果要離職的話應該要經過什麼樣的程序嗎博文市長有沒有掌握到相關的信息有有有這個就是工會的這個網頁或是說現在各個工會因為他們要護理人員要異動都要到工會裡面去辦理這個這個不管是進來或是離開或是異動都要辦理那我們跟\n這個都同步在這個資訊的取得資訊的了解掌握上我們都知道委員剛才提的這個我們也知道有有這樣的一個訊息不過目前如果說有一些同仁是透過這個方式離職的話其實他必須要透過掌握這個固執違法事證才能夠達到這個做法的一個基本要求\n所以假設真的是這樣做而且人數越來越明顯的話可能也要提醒大家有關於勞工的院方的應變還有在這個造成的一些影響這個都要麻煩市長或者是部長這邊要多多留意\n我們一定不斷的改善護理的跟醫院來合作啦不斷改善我們醫護的待遇跟醫療的環境那當然那個只要他們在牢記法之下我們都尊重嘛但是我們努力的是能夠留任把那種環境待遇能夠盡量的做好\n能夠來留任留任更多的護理人力能夠在職場我們共同來照顧病人這是我們的最重要的努力目標因為如果透過這個方法造成離職的話其實對於這位護理同仁來講他很難再回到職場因為這個是一個不愉快過程的話造成影響其實是會蠻影響力會蠻強的所以針對這個改善計畫裡面我們提了一些建議提供給市長跟部長這邊參考\n就是真的要督導各個醫院要遵守勞動法令跟勞動契約那這個過程必須要真的要去重視他的心聲啦要有好的協商平台跟管道當然很多資訊需要持續的公開透明才能夠讓他們瞭解也避免誤解跟正義這部分也麻煩所以非常好的建議我們一定要醫院來落實是好 再來\n來往下還有一個小議題那麻煩我們這個食藥署江署長因為最近有在討論這個事後必應藥到底要不要從處方用藥轉到指示用藥可能可以跟其他國家有一些使用上的符合不過也有很多的團體很擔心這樣的調整會造成哪一些的影響\n所以不知道最近所開會裡面有沒有去掌握到目前這個藥物的使用狀況還有有沒有相關的健康風險的評估那當然現在還很難馬上就做了確定或決定不過如果真的開放以後那造成影響可能需要去面臨的衝擊\n那有沒有辦法去做好健康最終或者是實名制的可能性那這部分不知道署長有沒有一些現在的一些想法或者是未來的做法提供給大家做參考\n謝謝委員的提問這都非常關鍵的問題我們在上個禮拜四我們召集了111號人民團體其實有兩位學生以及相關的法規的提到了一個很重要的關鍵那目前我們看到所有的所謂指示用藥的轉類這個過程當中我們有一定的標準那陳委員在現場也非常非常關心\n我們針對這個議題之後藥界藥師公會裡面也提出他們的想法那也覺得說很多的承諾我們覺得非常非常的有準備那醫界的部分也有提到他們有一點擔心那家長團體裡面特別有一位家長團體他本身對於所謂子宮內膜癌跟乳癌在臨床上面看到的一些些擔心\n加上學生團體裡面他特別針對他受到的教育跟配套他也覺得說希望我們能夠精進那此外呢各個國家裡面我們鄰近的日本其實也進入了所謂研議這個階段所以我們調處整個的一個過程當中我們覺得很重要的調和蠻重要的我們的經驗是需要去確認的\n那大家擔心的這一塊我覺得是可以有一個很重要的區域聯防的概念所以我們馬上有責成我們藥品組這邊思考如何去做台灣特殊的經驗跟調處各方能夠得到一個最適切的一個方案那目前持續在積極在研擬當中所以我想在不久的將來我想我們的經驗是會讓大家看到我們的處理是最圓滿的 以上\n好 非常謝謝署長的說明因為我們看最後一張發動片知道說的確用藥安全還有身體自主權如何達到是需要大家共同來努力好 謝謝署長也謝謝署長謝謝王委員 謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.135 --> 00:12.269\n好非常感謝主席我們就請邱部長好請邱部長\n\n00:18.499 --> 00:39.143\n委員好部長好剛剛聽了我們召委一席話自己驚喜啦因為的確得到這個榮譽是不容易而且經過一次這麼大的一個事件能夠趕快站起來持續服務當地的民眾應該是當務之急啦要先打拚了\n\n00:39.844 --> 00:53.480\n那今天的主題其實是真的很重要因為這是目前讓所有民眾感受到他在這個接近醫療裡面要怎麼改革自己這個身體健康疾病照顧的問題那\n\n00:55.763 --> 01:14.142\n所以還是能夠透過這個機會請部長再來多一些說明包括在3月3號部長也針對於這個醫院造成這個庸篩還有護理同仁離職的一些部分做相關的說明\n\n01:14.682 --> 01:33.461\n包括就有這個三短兩長的措施跟計畫來應應那這樣的急診就診人次就開始慢慢趨緩後來現在是三短兩長不是三長兩短所以能夠把事情做得更順利一點\n\n01:34.202 --> 01:54.262\n那這個部分我們也了解這個你的三短裡面是包括三項這個大家已經都討論過很多次了很多內容今天都已經很了解那中長期的部分剛剛也有很多委員就叫了這個部長有關護理人力還有這個健保支付標準等等\n\n01:55.223 --> 02:23.718\n不過還是要請部長或者是相關同仁再度的確認一下這些原因到底哪一個是最重要的哪一個是次要的哪一些是相關的因為我們知道做研究的話透過很多因素或者是一些數據的分析才有辦法去找出最重要跟其他相關的因子\n\n02:24.498 --> 02:45.436\n你這樣未來在做改善的時候才能夠真的有辦法針對一些因素做改善所以部長這部分你看美納分析早有機會找出這個最重要的相關因子或者是最重要的因素來做未來改善的一個基礎\n\n02:46.348 --> 03:00.881\n好是的我想它的原因應該是剛剛委員所列出來的這些都有可能是有相關的因素那是不是在當然啦我們如果在研究當然有significant的\n\n03:03.292 --> 03:17.311\n有意義的影響因子或者是有影響因子但是他不到達統計書記當然是在研究的領域但是只要有可能影響的我們都會抓出來來分析來處理包括這裡應該要多一個\n\n03:18.653 --> 03:33.527\n那個分級醫療是不是沒有落實這樣子那護理能力不足當然是我想是大家公認的啦因為如果能夠傳輸開得更多一點的話是不是可以減緩\n\n03:36.693 --> 04:01.550\n那當然門診預約住院床位的分配失衡這個就要看醫院的屬性了啦像我譬如說我去跟台大醫院的大家高層朋友談的時候他說他們的內科主任說我的門診也都很重很嚴重啊我不是說趁差就讓他去斷癮啊\n\n04:02.791 --> 04:05.536\n這也是我們要幫你做參考啦我意思是說但是這個有在打扮這個有在處理可利用的床位不足這個部分\n\n04:15.950 --> 04:44.118\n當然包括說我們是不是好好的應用那我們原來是希望院長去處理那昨天我們跟醫療工會我們敬佩他們提出從護理基層的角度來提出一個一個指引我覺得站在專業的角度上我們非常重視也跟他們取得共識要研究把這個指引就是說你怎麼讓他們的床可以更加靈活我們要聽護理界的指引那\n\n04:44.998 --> 05:01.674\n另外當然是Infection這個感染這個部分我想在這個孤單期間都會比較有啦所以這些都是原因而且都是要去改善能預防的就預防能解決的就一步一步來解決\n\n05:02.486 --> 05:13.295\n好因為我們也知道在短期有時候沒有辦法抓到那麼多的數據的話這個我們應該來分析數據啦我覺得有幾種的他們來的一個型態我們再來分析一下對所以其實我們是很建議啦針對於\n\n05:24.025 --> 05:38.197\n剛剛的那些問題然後特別去分析我們所列舉出來的不管是造成這個擁塞的疾病類型醫院的層級還有在聽您早上的報告裡面也有備案嘛這備案是怎樣這次\n\n05:40.779 --> 06:02.799\n發揮不了它的作用以前好像都可以透過備案ABC來解決在過年期間這個狀況今年是發生什麼問題沒有辦法讓備案發生那個效果這個就麻煩到時候在一個月左右一個月內可不可以讓我們知道這個分析的結果我們徹底來分析再跟委員報告\n\n06:03.419 --> 06:25.067\nOK好拜託一下因為這個是對於未來的這個改善應該是我們一定要徹底改善是那另外針對於這個護理人力跟薪資跟流財的部分剛剛也討論了非常多那不知道蔡市長有沒有注意到有這一則公會提供給會員們\n\n06:27.148 --> 06:53.349\n他們如何在目前的離職草裡面早上剛剛有很多委員說要擺這一點點以上才能夠有機會去跟主管討論離職的部分那這個我們也相信工會是為了他的會員希望能夠針對於一些做法提供一些參考包括說怎麼樣禁書離職的一些好方法或者是適當的方式等等\n\n06:53.769 --> 07:15.376\n他也提醒在這個過程裡面要注意哪一些的事情包括說如果是想要免排隊就要離職的話是可以怎麼做不過這個是基本上是根據這個勞動基準法第14條的一些處理模式因為他有規定勞工的不經過預告終止契約因為我們知道\n\n07:16.536 --> 07:41.393\n在這個勞動契約裡面都會宰明說如果要離職的話應該要經過什麼樣的程序嗎博文市長有沒有掌握到相關的信息有有有這個就是工會的這個網頁或是說現在各個工會因為他們要護理人員要異動都要到工會裡面去辦理這個這個不管是進來或是離開或是異動都要辦理那我們跟\n\n07:45.217 --> 08:12.688\n這個都同步在這個資訊的取得資訊的了解掌握上我們都知道委員剛才提的這個我們也知道有有這樣的一個訊息不過目前如果說有一些同仁是透過這個方式離職的話其實他必須要透過掌握這個固執違法事證才能夠達到這個做法的一個基本要求\n\n08:13.448 --> 08:29.564\n所以假設真的是這樣做而且人數越來越明顯的話可能也要提醒大家有關於勞工的院方的應變還有在這個造成的一些影響這個都要麻煩市長或者是部長這邊要多多留意\n\n08:30.507 --> 08:53.874\n我們一定不斷的改善護理的跟醫院來合作啦不斷改善我們醫護的待遇跟醫療的環境那當然那個只要他們在牢記法之下我們都尊重嘛但是我們努力的是能夠留任把那種環境待遇能夠盡量的做好\n\n08:54.994 --> 09:23.473\n能夠來留任留任更多的護理人力能夠在職場我們共同來照顧病人這是我們的最重要的努力目標因為如果透過這個方法造成離職的話其實對於這位護理同仁來講他很難再回到職場因為這個是一個不愉快過程的話造成影響其實是會蠻影響力會蠻強的所以針對這個改善計畫裡面我們提了一些建議提供給市長跟部長這邊參考\n\n09:24.734 --> 09:50.507\n就是真的要督導各個醫院要遵守勞動法令跟勞動契約那這個過程必須要真的要去重視他的心聲啦要有好的協商平台跟管道當然很多資訊需要持續的公開透明才能夠讓他們瞭解也避免誤解跟正義這部分也麻煩所以非常好的建議我們一定要醫院來落實是好再來\n\n09:54.450 --> 10:23.177\n來往下還有一個小議題那麻煩我們這個食藥署江署長因為最近有在討論這個事後必應藥到底要不要從處方用藥轉到指示用藥可能可以跟其他國家有一些使用上的符合不過也有很多的團體很擔心這樣的調整會造成哪一些的影響\n\n10:23.957 --> 10:45.345\n所以不知道最近所開會裡面有沒有去掌握到目前這個藥物的使用狀況還有有沒有相關的健康風險的評估那當然現在還很難馬上就做了確定或決定不過如果真的開放以後那造成影響可能需要去面臨的衝擊\n\n10:46.605 --> 10:58.325\n那有沒有辦法去做好健康最終或者是實名制的可能性那這部分不知道署長有沒有一些現在的一些想法或者是未來的做法提供給大家做參考\n\n11:01.092 --> 11:25.229\n謝謝委員的提問這都非常關鍵的問題我們在上個禮拜四我們召集了111號人民團體其實有兩位學生以及相關的法規的提到了一個很重要的關鍵那目前我們看到所有的所謂指示用藥的轉類這個過程當中我們有一定的標準那陳委員在現場也非常非常關心\n\n11:25.889 --> 11:49.397\n我們針對這個議題之後藥界藥師公會裡面也提出他們的想法那也覺得說很多的承諾我們覺得非常非常的有準備那醫界的部分也有提到他們有一點擔心那家長團體裡面特別有一位家長團體他本身對於所謂子宮內膜癌跟乳癌在臨床上面看到的一些些擔心\n\n11:50.117 --> 12:11.510\n加上學生團體裡面他特別針對他受到的教育跟配套他也覺得說希望我們能夠精進那此外呢各個國家裡面我們鄰近的日本其實也進入了所謂研議這個階段所以我們調處整個的一個過程當中我們覺得很重要的調和蠻重要的我們的經驗是需要去確認的\n\n12:12.651 --> 12:38.907\n那大家擔心的這一塊我覺得是可以有一個很重要的區域聯防的概念所以我們馬上有責成我們藥品組這邊思考如何去做台灣特殊的經驗跟調處各方能夠得到一個最適切的一個方案那目前持續在積極在研擬當中所以我想在不久的將來我想我們的經驗是會讓大家看到我們的處理是最圓滿的以上\n\n12:40.208 --> 12:54.595\n好非常謝謝署長的說明因為我們看最後一張發動片知道說的確用藥安全還有身體自主權如何達到是需要大家共同來努力好謝謝署長也謝謝署長謝謝王委員謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.135,"end":12.269,"text":"好 非常感謝主席我們就請邱部長好 請邱部長"},{"start":18.499,"end":39.143,"text":"委員好部長好剛剛聽了我們召委一席話自己驚喜啦因為的確得到這個榮譽是不容易而且經過一次這麼大的一個事件能夠趕快站起來持續服務當地的民眾應該是當務之急啦要先打拚了"},{"start":39.844,"end":53.48,"text":"那今天的主題其實是真的很重要因為這是目前讓所有民眾感受到他在這個接近醫療裡面要怎麼改革自己這個身體健康疾病照顧的問題那"},{"start":55.763,"end":74.142,"text":"所以還是能夠透過這個機會請部長再來多一些說明包括在3月3號部長也針對於這個醫院造成這個庸篩還有護理同仁離職的一些部分做相關的說明"},{"start":74.682,"end":93.461,"text":"包括就有這個三短兩長的措施跟計畫來應應那這樣的急診就診人次就開始慢慢趨緩後來現在是三短兩長不是三長兩短所以能夠把事情做得更順利一點"},{"start":94.202,"end":114.262,"text":"那這個部分我們也了解這個你的三短裡面是包括三項這個大家已經都討論過很多次了很多內容今天都已經很了解那中長期的部分剛剛也有很多委員就叫了這個部長有關護理人力還有這個健保支付標準等等"},{"start":115.223,"end":143.718,"text":"不過還是要請部長或者是相關同仁再度的確認一下這些原因到底哪一個是最重要的哪一個是次要的哪一些是相關的因為我們知道做研究的話透過很多因素或者是一些數據的分析才有辦法去找出最重要跟其他相關的因子"},{"start":144.498,"end":165.436,"text":"你這樣未來在做改善的時候才能夠真的有辦法針對一些因素做改善所以部長這部分你看美納分析早有機會找出這個最重要的相關因子或者是最重要的因素來做未來改善的一個基礎"},{"start":166.348,"end":180.881,"text":"好 是的 我想它的原因應該是剛剛委員所列出來的這些都有可能是有相關的因素那是不是在 當然啦我們如果在研究當然有significant的"},{"start":183.292,"end":197.311,"text":"有意義的影響因子或者是有影響因子但是他不到達統計書記當然是在研究的領域但是只要有可能影響的我們都會抓出來來分析來處理包括這裡應該要多一個"},{"start":198.653,"end":213.527,"text":"那個分級醫療是不是沒有落實這樣子那護理能力不足當然是我想是大家公認的啦因為如果能夠傳輸開得更多一點的話是不是可以減緩"},{"start":216.693,"end":241.55,"text":"那當然門診預約住院床位的分配失衡這個就要看醫院的屬性了啦像我譬如說我去跟台大醫院的大家高層朋友談的時候他說他們的內科主任說我的門診也都很重很嚴重啊我不是說趁差就讓他去斷癮啊"},{"start":242.791,"end":245.536,"text":"這也是我們要幫你做參考啦我意思是說 但是這個有在打扮這個有在處理 可利用的床位不足這個部分"},{"start":255.95,"end":284.118,"text":"當然包括說我們是不是好好的應用那我們原來是希望院長去處理那昨天我們跟醫療工會我們敬佩他們提出從護理基層的角度來提出一個一個指引我覺得站在專業的角度上我們非常重視也跟他們取得共識要研究把這個指引就是說你怎麼讓他們的床可以更加靈活我們要聽護理界的指引那"},{"start":284.998,"end":301.674,"text":"另外當然是Infection這個感染這個部分我想在這個孤單期間都會比較有啦所以這些都是原因而且都是要去改善能預防的就預防能解決的就一步一步來解決"},{"start":302.486,"end":313.295,"text":"好因為我們也知道在短期有時候沒有辦法抓到那麼多的數據的話這個我們應該來分析數據啦我覺得有幾種的他們來的一個型態我們再來分析一下對所以其實我們是很建議啦針對於"},{"start":324.025,"end":338.197,"text":"剛剛的那些問題然後特別去分析我們所列舉出來的不管是造成這個擁塞的疾病類型醫院的層級還有在聽您早上的報告裡面也有備案嘛這備案是怎樣這次"},{"start":340.779,"end":362.799,"text":"發揮不了它的作用以前好像都可以透過備案ABC來解決在過年期間這個狀況今年是發生什麼問題沒有辦法讓備案發生那個效果這個就麻煩到時候在一個月左右一個月內可不可以讓我們知道這個分析的結果我們徹底來分析再跟委員報告"},{"start":363.419,"end":385.067,"text":"OK好拜託一下因為這個是對於未來的這個改善應該是我們一定要徹底改善是那另外針對於這個護理人力跟薪資跟流財的部分剛剛也討論了非常多那不知道蔡市長有沒有注意到有這一則公會提供給會員們"},{"start":387.148,"end":413.349,"text":"他們如何在目前的離職草裡面早上剛剛有很多委員說要擺這一點點以上才能夠有機會去跟主管討論離職的部分那這個我們也相信工會是為了他的會員希望能夠針對於一些做法提供一些參考包括說怎麼樣禁書離職的一些好方法或者是適當的方式等等"},{"start":413.769,"end":435.376,"text":"他也提醒在這個過程裡面要注意哪一些的事情包括說如果是想要免排隊就要離職的話是可以怎麼做不過這個是基本上是根據這個勞動基準法第14條的一些處理模式因為他有規定勞工的不經過預告終止契約因為我們知道"},{"start":436.536,"end":461.393,"text":"在這個勞動契約裡面都會宰明說如果要離職的話應該要經過什麼樣的程序嗎博文市長有沒有掌握到相關的信息有有有這個就是工會的這個網頁或是說現在各個工會因為他們要護理人員要異動都要到工會裡面去辦理這個這個不管是進來或是離開或是異動都要辦理那我們跟"},{"start":465.217,"end":492.688,"text":"這個都同步在這個資訊的取得資訊的了解掌握上我們都知道委員剛才提的這個我們也知道有有這樣的一個訊息不過目前如果說有一些同仁是透過這個方式離職的話其實他必須要透過掌握這個固執違法事證才能夠達到這個做法的一個基本要求"},{"start":493.448,"end":509.564,"text":"所以假設真的是這樣做而且人數越來越明顯的話可能也要提醒大家有關於勞工的院方的應變還有在這個造成的一些影響這個都要麻煩市長或者是部長這邊要多多留意"},{"start":510.507,"end":533.874,"text":"我們一定不斷的改善護理的跟醫院來合作啦不斷改善我們醫護的待遇跟醫療的環境那當然那個只要他們在牢記法之下我們都尊重嘛但是我們努力的是能夠留任把那種環境待遇能夠盡量的做好"},{"start":534.994,"end":563.473,"text":"能夠來留任留任更多的護理人力能夠在職場我們共同來照顧病人這是我們的最重要的努力目標因為如果透過這個方法造成離職的話其實對於這位護理同仁來講他很難再回到職場因為這個是一個不愉快過程的話造成影響其實是會蠻影響力會蠻強的所以針對這個改善計畫裡面我們提了一些建議提供給市長跟部長這邊參考"},{"start":564.734,"end":590.507,"text":"就是真的要督導各個醫院要遵守勞動法令跟勞動契約那這個過程必須要真的要去重視他的心聲啦要有好的協商平台跟管道當然很多資訊需要持續的公開透明才能夠讓他們瞭解也避免誤解跟正義這部分也麻煩所以非常好的建議我們一定要醫院來落實是好 再來"},{"start":594.45,"end":623.177,"text":"來往下還有一個小議題那麻煩我們這個食藥署江署長因為最近有在討論這個事後必應藥到底要不要從處方用藥轉到指示用藥可能可以跟其他國家有一些使用上的符合不過也有很多的團體很擔心這樣的調整會造成哪一些的影響"},{"start":623.957,"end":645.345,"text":"所以不知道最近所開會裡面有沒有去掌握到目前這個藥物的使用狀況還有有沒有相關的健康風險的評估那當然現在還很難馬上就做了確定或決定不過如果真的開放以後那造成影響可能需要去面臨的衝擊"},{"start":646.605,"end":658.325,"text":"那有沒有辦法去做好健康最終或者是實名制的可能性那這部分不知道署長有沒有一些現在的一些想法或者是未來的做法提供給大家做參考"},{"start":661.092,"end":685.229,"text":"謝謝委員的提問這都非常關鍵的問題我們在上個禮拜四我們召集了111號人民團體其實有兩位學生以及相關的法規的提到了一個很重要的關鍵那目前我們看到所有的所謂指示用藥的轉類這個過程當中我們有一定的標準那陳委員在現場也非常非常關心"},{"start":685.889,"end":709.397,"text":"我們針對這個議題之後藥界藥師公會裡面也提出他們的想法那也覺得說很多的承諾我們覺得非常非常的有準備那醫界的部分也有提到他們有一點擔心那家長團體裡面特別有一位家長團體他本身對於所謂子宮內膜癌跟乳癌在臨床上面看到的一些些擔心"},{"start":710.117,"end":731.51,"text":"加上學生團體裡面他特別針對他受到的教育跟配套他也覺得說希望我們能夠精進那此外呢各個國家裡面我們鄰近的日本其實也進入了所謂研議這個階段所以我們調處整個的一個過程當中我們覺得很重要的調和蠻重要的我們的經驗是需要去確認的"},{"start":732.651,"end":758.907,"text":"那大家擔心的這一塊我覺得是可以有一個很重要的區域聯防的概念所以我們馬上有責成我們藥品組這邊思考如何去做台灣特殊的經驗跟調處各方能夠得到一個最適切的一個方案那目前持續在積極在研擬當中所以我想在不久的將來我想我們的經驗是會讓大家看到我們的處理是最圓滿的 以上"},{"start":760.208,"end":774.595,"text":"好 非常謝謝署長的說明因為我們看最後一張發動片知道說的確用藥安全還有身體自主權如何達到是需要大家共同來努力好 謝謝署長也謝謝署長謝謝王委員 謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":742,"blocks":[["王委員正旭：（11時35分）非常感謝主席，我們就請邱部長。"],["主席：好，請邱部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["王委員正旭：部長好。剛剛聽了我們召委一席話，恭喜你，因為的確得到這個榮譽是不容易，而且經過一次這麼大的一個事件，能夠趕快站起來持續服務當地的民眾，應該是當務之急，繼續打拚。","今天的主題，其實這是真的很重要，因為這是目前讓所有民眾感受到，他在醫療方面如何解決自己身體健康與疾病照顧的問題。所以還是能夠透過這個機會，請部長再來多做一些說明，包括在3月3號部長也針對於醫院造成壅塞，還有護理同仁離職的部分做了相關的說明，包括「3短2長」的措施跟計畫來因應，這樣急診的就診人次就開始慢慢趨緩，還好是「3短2長」，不是「3長2短」，所以能夠把事情做得更順利一點。","關於這個部分，我們也瞭解這個「3短」裡面是包括3項，這個大家已經都討論過很多次了，很多內容今天都已經很瞭解。那中長期的部分，剛剛也有很多委員就教了部長，有關護理人力，還有健保支付標準等等。不過還是要請部長或者是相關同仁再度的確認一下，這些原因到底哪一個是最重要的，哪一個是次要的，哪一些是相關的。因為我們知道，做研究的話，透過很多因素或者是一些數據的分析，才有辦法找出最重要跟其他相關的因子。這樣未來在做改善的時候，才能夠真的有辦法針對一些因素做改善。部長，這個部分你看要怎麼分析，才有機會找出這個最重要的相關因子或者是最重要的因素，來做未來改善的一個基礎？"],["邱部長泰源：好，是的，我想它的原因應該是剛剛委員所列出來的這些，都有可能會有相關的因素。當然，我們如果在研究，當然有significant的影響因子，有意義的影響因子，或者是有影響因子但是它不到達統計數據，當然是在研究的領域，但是只要有可能影響的，我們都會抓出來分析、處理，包括這裡應該要多一個分級醫療是不是沒有落實。那護理人力不足，我想是大家公認的，因為如果能夠床數開得更多一點的話是不是可以減緩。當然，急診、門診預約住院床位的分配失衡，這個就要看醫院的屬性了，譬如說我去跟臺大醫院的高層朋友談的時候，他說他們有內科主任說他的門診也都很嚴重，他不是隨便就讓病人去住院……"],["王委員正旭：沒關係，這是要讓部長參考。"],["邱部長泰源：也是癌症的開刀等等，我的意思是，這部分也有在努力處理。"],["王委員正旭：了解。"],["邱部長泰源：可利用的床位不足這個部分，當然包括我們是不是好好的運用。我們原來是希望院長去處理，昨天我們跟醫療公會取得共識，我很敬佩他們從護理基層的角度來提出一個指引。我覺得站在專業的角度上，我們非常重視，也跟他們取得共識，要研究這個指引，就是要怎麼讓醫院的床可以更加靈活，我們要聽護理界的指引。","另外，當然是感染這個部分，我想在過年期間都會比較有，所以這些都是原因，而且都是要去改善，能預防的就預防，能解決的就一步一步來解決。"],["王委員正旭：好，因為我們也知道，在短期有時候沒有辦法抓到那麼多數據的話，這個部分……"],["邱部長泰源：這個我們應該來分析數據，他們來急診的一個型態，我們再來分析一下。"],["王委員正旭：其實我們是很建議，針對剛剛的那些問題，特別去分析我們所列舉出來的，不管是造成壅塞的疾病類型、醫院的層級，還有在聽您早上的報告裡面也有備案。這個備案為什麼這一次發揮不了它的作用？以前好像都可以透過備案ABC來解決過年期間這個狀況。今年是怎麼樣，發生什麼問題，沒有辦法讓備案發生效果？這個就麻煩到時候在一個月內可不可以讓我們知道這個分析的結果？"],["邱部長泰源：好，我們澈底來分析，再跟委員報告。"],["王委員正旭：OK，好，拜託一下，因為這個對於未來的改善，應該是非常重要的指標。"],["邱部長泰源：我們一定要澈底改善。"],["王委員正旭：另外，針對於護理人力、薪資跟留才的部分，剛剛也討論了非常多，不知道蔡司長有沒有注意到有這一則工會提供給會員們，他們如何在目前的離職潮裡面，早上剛剛有很多委員說要排一個鐘頭以上，才能夠有機會去跟主管討論離職的部分。我們也相信工會是為了他的會員，希望能夠針對一些作法提供一些參考，包括說怎麼樣儘速離職的一些好方法或者是適當的方式等等。它也提醒在這個過程裡面要注意哪一些的事情，包括說如果是想要免排隊就要離職的話，可以怎麼做。不過這個基本上是根據勞動基準法第十四條的一些處理模式，因為它有規定勞工得不經過預告中止契約。我們知道在勞動契約裡面，都會載明如果要離職的話，應該要經過什麼樣的程序。這個部分司長有沒有掌握到相關的訊息？"],["蔡司長淑鳳：有，這個就是工會的網頁或是說現在各個工會，因為護理人員要異動都要到工會裡面去辦理，不管是進來、離開或是異動都要辦理。我們都同步在這個資訊的瞭解掌握上，我們都知道。委員剛才提的這部分，我們也知道有這樣一個訊息，不過……"],["王委員正旭：目前如果說有一些同仁是透過這個方式離職的話，其實他必須要透過掌握雇主違法事證，才能夠達到這個作法的一個基本要求。所以假設真的是這樣做，而且人數越來越明顯的話，可能也要提醒大家，有關於勞工的、院方的應變，還有造成的一些影響，這都要麻煩司長或是部長要多留意。"],["邱部長泰源：我們一定不斷改善護理的部分，跟醫院來合作，不斷改善我們醫護的待遇跟醫療的環境。當然，只要他們在勞基法之下，我們都尊重嘛！"],["王委員正旭：我們比較擔心的是……"],["邱部長泰源：但是我們努力的是能夠留任，把環境、待遇能夠儘量的做好。"],["王委員正旭：當然，這是減輕我們勞動……"],["邱部長泰源：然後來留任更多的護理人力，能夠在職場共同來照顧病人，這是我們的最重要的努力目標。"],["王委員正旭：因為如果透過這個方法造成離職的話，其實對於這位護理同仁來講，他很難再回到職場，因為這是一個不愉快過程的話，其實造成的影響力會蠻強的。所以針對這個改善計畫裡面，我們也提了一些建議，提供給司長跟部長這邊參考，就是真的要督導各醫院要遵守勞動法令跟勞動契約。"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["王委員正旭：這個過程必須要真的去重視基層的心聲，要有好的協商平台跟管道，當然很多資訊需要持續的公開透明，才能夠讓他們了解，也避免誤解跟爭議，這部分也麻煩積極來處理。"],["邱部長泰源：這是非常好的建議，我們一定要醫院來落實。"],["王委員正旭：好，再來還有一個小議題，麻煩我們食藥署姜署長，因為最近有在討論，事後避孕藥到底要不要從處方用藥轉到指示用藥，可能可以跟其他國家有一些使用上的符合，不過也有很多的團體很擔心這樣的調整會造成哪些影響。所以不知道最近所開的會議裡面，有沒有去掌握到目前這個藥物的使用狀況，還有有沒有相關健康風險的評估？當然現在還很難馬上就做確定或決定，不過如果真的開放以後造成的影響及可能需要面臨的衝擊，有沒有辦法去做好健康追蹤或者是實名制的可能性？這部分不知道署長有沒有一些現在的想法或者是未來的做法，提供給大家做參考？"],["姜署長至剛：是，謝謝委員的提問，這都是非常關鍵的問題。我們在上個禮拜四召集了醫、藥、人民團體，其實有兩位學生以及相關的法規，提到了一個很重要的關鍵，目前我們看到所有的所謂指示用藥的轉類過程當中，我們有一定的標準。陳委員在現場也非常非常關心，我們針對這個議題之後，藥界以及藥師公會也提出他們的想法，也覺得很多的承諾都非常非常有準備。醫界的部分也有提到稍微有一點擔心，那家長團體裡面，特別有一位家長，他本身對於所謂子宮內膜癌跟乳癌在臨床上面，他看到的一些些擔心，加上學生團體裡面特別針對所受到的教育跟配套，他也覺得希望我們能夠精進。此外，各個國家裡面，我們鄰近的日本，其實也進入了所謂研議這個階段，所以我們調處整個的過程當中，我們覺得調和是蠻重要的。我們的經驗是需要去確認的，那大家擔心的這一塊，我覺得是可以有一個很重要的區域聯防概念，所以我們馬上有責成藥品組這邊，思考如何去做臺灣特殊的經驗跟調處，各方能夠得到一個最適切的方案。目前在持續積極研擬當中。所以，我想在不久的將來，我們的經驗會讓大家看到我們的處理是最圓滿的，以上。"],["王委員正旭：好，非常謝謝署長的說明。因為我們看最後一張幻燈片就知道，的確，用藥安全還有身體自主權如何達到衡平是需要大家共同來努力的。好，謝謝署長、也謝謝部長。"],["姜署長至剛：謝謝。"],["主席（蘇委員清泉）：謝謝王委員，謝謝部長、署長。","我們接續處理臨時提案，總共2案。","一、","有鑑於衛生福利部所訂之《113年度醫院評鑑及教學醫院評鑑作業程序》規定中，高屏區（高雄市、屏東縣、澎湖縣）醫學中心評定上限應為三家。然而，衛生福利部卻於2024年度醫學中心評鑑結果評定四家醫院成為醫學中心，顯然違反自己設下的規定與門檻，卻無法對外說明清楚原因，導致外界對評定標準與公平性產生疑慮。","依據前揭作業程序規定，當評定家數超過上限時，應依「醫院評鑑成績40%、教學醫院評鑑成績20%、醫學中心任務指標審查成績40%」之標準進行核算，並依總成績高低排序擇優評定為醫學中心。但本次評定過程未明確說明評選標準如何適用，亦未公布各醫院成績排序及決策依據，衛生福利部縱然百般閃躲責任，但事實及違背規則的原因仍亟待釐清。","三、醫學中心升格涉及大量公共資源投入，應確保符合區域醫療規劃及醫療公平性原則，避免造成資源過度集中或其他區域醫院競爭壓力過大。本次評定結果涉及重大公共利益，且監察院已對醫學中心評鑑機制提出糾正，顯示現行評鑑制度存在漏洞，而衛生福利部無視監察院糾正之結果，再次於本次評鑑出現離譜之狀況，更有需要提出完整報告及說明。因此，為確保行政透明及決策合理性，爰提案要求衛生福利部針對此次醫院評鑑再次出現違法升格醫學中心一事向本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出專案報告，以釐清決策過程及改善未來醫學中心評鑑制度，內容包括但不限於：","(一)本次醫學中心評鑑標準及新增醫學中心的具體理由，以及該醫院升格後對高屏地區醫療資源分配的影響評估。","(二)本次評定程序中各醫院的成績排序及核算結果。","(三)內部簽核至部長之相關決策文件，包含各單位會簽意見。","(四)本次評定結果與既定評鑑標準不符之原因，以及後續如何確保評鑑機制符合既定行政規則。","提案人：陳昭姿　　王育敏　　邱鎮軍","二、","有鑑於衛福部本於應積極發揮對我國罹患「慢性炎症脫髓鞘性多發性神經病變（CIDP）」近500人患者，於加強照顧與醫治，和協助取得適用藥物等應盡之職責。是以，考量當前對CIDP患者僅部份給付主治醫師專案申請成功後的半年IVIG療程，容有措施上再受強化之提升空間，爰決議衛福部應限期於三個月內，以將CIDP納入罕見疾病獲列入重大傷病之前提，完成檢討與規劃作業，俟後並向本委員會提交書面報告。","提案人：陳菁徽　　蘇清泉　　邱鎮軍"],["主席：好，現在第1案，請問行政單位有沒有意見？"],["劉司長越萍：第1案，委員……"],["陳委員昭姿：這一個提案就是關於醫院評鑑。因為最近我們遇到很多問題，其實都是源始於這個，要落實分流，就會談到分級醫療，談到分級醫療，就會回到醫院評鑑。醫院評鑑的部分，今年以及113年度一項醫院評鑑及教學醫院評鑑作業程序有規定，高屏區醫學中心的評定上限是3家啦！但是你的評鑑結果是跑出4家啦！所以，部長就是違反你自己的規定門檻。這也不是我規定的，結果你違反，但是我們每一次都只看到結果。當然你們有一些作業程序，就是評定家數超過的時候，當然會根據幾個指標，包括醫院評鑑啦、教學結果啦，或是醫學中心任務等等有個百分比，然後根據這個成績的高低去排序、擇優，但是我們一直都沒有看到整個決策的過程或有相當、合理的透明度，只看到不斷地增加，去年一口氣增加3家醫學中心，你們才剛剛寫清楚上限3家，現在又變成4家。那我必須說，醫學中心涉及大量公共投資、資源的投資，應該確保區域醫療規劃跟醫療的公平性，不要造成資源過度集中，或者其他地區醫院在競爭力上壓力非常大。","因為涉及重大公共利益，事實上監察院有提出糾正函！但是你們好像都沒有去重視這件事。所以為了確保行政透明、決策合理性，我們才要求針對醫院評鑑再次出現違規、跟你們自己的規定不符……我先不要談我的見解，而是針對跟你們自己規定不符的結果，所以我希望先做專案報告，包括本次醫學中心的評鑑標準、新增的具體理由，以及該醫院升格後對高屏地區醫療資源分配的影響。","剛剛我們也做了一些溝通，針對第二個，就是本次評定當中的成績排序及核算結果，我們同意不要有這個identity，就是我們並不需要知道是哪一家醫院，我們希望知道的就是到底你們面對原始評分結果是怎麼處理的，當然我們希望看到最後的決策。剛剛還溝通要各單位會簽，如果第3項不要的話，部長，那就是你自己一個人要承擔喔！代表就是你做決定的啊！大家都送到你桌上、讓你做決定啊！","關於本次評定結果與既定評鑑標準不符合的原因，為什麼不符合？你才自己規定3家為上限，現在又跑出1家了，那後續如何確保能夠符合這個行政規則？部長，我的重點是現在大家都喊醫療緊急、護理人員不夠、急診壅塞，但你一方面喊分級醫療，一方面醫學中心又在往上走，我看不懂！好像是兩手策略！一方面鼓勵大醫院一直出來、蓋醫院，還有1萬1,000床等著增加、擴建，一方面又說分級醫療，這是很矛盾的，所以我才就我的專業理解提出這樣的臨時提案，請大家支持，也請衛福部做回應，好嗎？謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：好。我想，所有努力都是希望讓人民得到最好的照顧，而我們知道南北醫療資源的不平衡，剛剛蘇召委也提出他們那邊的奮鬥，所以這是很艱難的課題。我也了解昭姿委員，我們長期、幾十年來的奮鬥，共同對分級醫療努力，我也知道你長期關心醫學中心增設，如果沒有處理好，是對醫療體系不好的，我完全了解，所以我們現在也在做醫院評鑑的改革，目前一直在改革。改革的部分，當然第一個會讓醫學中心有升有降，好的留下來，不好的就是降級，醫院評鑑改革的第一重點是在這個地方。第二個，可能要考慮到地區的遼闊性，如果都集中在一個地方，可能真的不適合，就好像只拚那邊。但如果土地遼闊，例如有些地區人口永遠不可能達到200萬人啊！可是它就需要一個更堅強的堡壘來保衛人民的健康，所以針對200萬人這個部分，可能也會在改革裡面做處理。","我跟昭姿委員一樣，認為北部如果有太多醫學中心，真的會變成南北不平衡。在讓它南北不平衡以及未來醫學中心有升有降當中，我們必須做一件事情：先讓它南北平衡，這是一個概念啦！第二個概念是我完全知道我必須面對陳昭姿委員、我幾十年來老戰友的挑戰，這是很痛苦、也很天人交戰，但是又必須為人民而做的努力。當然，所有決策我必須負全部的責任，我想我先講清楚：我願意承擔所有責任，但要給我機會來講整個決策的過程，甚至我們的努力可以改變未來整個臺灣的醫療體系。","關於南部，當然永遠都是那3家嘛！各位要知道，醫學中心要保持在醫學中心比較容易，準醫學中心或區域醫院要晉升到醫學中心則是很辛苦的。為什麼？它要付出醫學中心的人力跟設備、要達到評鑑標準，而且剛開始可能只能得到準醫學中心。我們知道南部有一家準醫學中心7年了，作為準醫學中心，它的服務包括了屏東、包括了高雄山區，但如果要以人口去算，永遠、永遠不可能讓它……它已經投入那麼多了，為什麼要投入那麼多？就是因為人民的需要，所以必須用醫學中心的標準來服務民眾，它也願意到偏鄉，我們……"],["陳委員昭姿：主席，我可以跟他對話嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：沒關係，我可以。"],["陳委員昭姿：我可以直接對話嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：沒問題、沒問題，請。"],["陳委員昭姿：你如果覺得你們在做這個醫院評鑑作業程序的時候，認為南高可能需要再一家中心的話，為什麼在113年的作業程序中還要訂上限是3家？我現在是針對……"],["邱部長泰源：我知道。"],["陳委員昭姿：你這樣規定，自己卻違規嘛！你的需求我聽得懂嘛！"],["邱部長泰源：向委員報告，我們的醫學中心4年才評一次啦！不是每年評。"],["陳委員昭姿：可是你馬上就犯規啊！"],["邱部長泰源：4年評一次是規定，但我們也要站在人民的需求考慮，還有南部……"],["陳委員昭姿：不！那是你定的啊！你自己定的啊！"],["邱部長泰源：南部幾乎所有立委都站在人民立場呼籲、強烈地呼籲，也在這裡質詢，我們不能不回應啦！所以那雖然是規定，像去年也是……"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，那你的意思是跟我說這個規定就像聽聽看、參考用啦！"],["邱部長泰源：不是啦！人民……"],["陳委員昭姿：我今天沒有談大方向，我只談你提的規定。"],["邱部長泰源：人民的需求勝過我們一般可以行政的規定啦！如果這個有違反規定，我願意負全責啦！但是我必須說明，我必須考慮到如果要到4年後再評估一次，我覺得對於南北平衡是不平衡的。跟委員報告，減緩……"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，你既然……"],["邱部長泰源：要減緩北部增加幾家的影響，最好的方式就是讓南部加強、讓南北均衡。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，要按照人口需求，這個大家都知道、非常合理……"],["邱部長泰源：還有地形的因素……"],["陳委員昭姿：我的結論是你訂定……然後你說醫學中心要付出代價，我們同意，可是你沒有講另外一面：對醫學中心也很有好處啊！它的給付層級愈高、給付愈多啊！議價能力更強啊！可以買醫材、買藥品。民眾也都要去，因為你們都一直鼓勵蓋大醫院，就讓他們覺得醫中好棒棒嘛！就是很棒嘛！所以今天整個導向……"],["邱部長泰源：如果今天發生在別人的身上，我不敢講。但今天發生在我邱某人，各位也知道，我最強調分級醫療、我最強調基層醫療，我不可能要加強醫學中心的量數，問題是民眾的需要。我們都評估喔！它到底對於財務的衝擊如何？在當地的高屏區是只到達0.01%。"],["陳委員昭姿：那你要檢討的是醫療網那個原始計畫，如果你覺得200萬不行，就不要讓它擱在那裡。健保法有多少條法擱在那邊都不動？這樣永遠會讓我們立法委員……"],["邱部長泰源：因為你最了解，也一直在……"],["陳委員昭姿：我同意你修改啊！作業程序……"],["邱部長泰源：我希望委員能夠諒解到，南北平衡的問題如果不現在處理、4年後再去做，人民的健康不能等4年啊！"],["陳委員昭姿：南部的民眾要照顧，但是北北已經破了嘛！七百多萬人口已經有10家啦！"],["邱部長泰源：但是我們現在有一個規定，就是下一次評鑑……"],["陳委員昭姿：真的嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：就是有升有降，這是最堅定的原則。而且……"],["陳委員昭姿：上一次說要降的都沒降啊！一下子增3家啊！"],["邱部長泰源：沒有啊！上次是升啦！"],["陳委員昭姿：好，你不負責喔？那次不是你，好。"],["邱部長泰源：老實講，我跟南部任何一家醫學中心都沒有任何關係，我只有跟臺大雲林分院、也就是建國那邊比較有關係而已。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，我今天只是希望你們能夠做個報告，因為醫療評鑑關係到現在整個氛圍。整個醫療氛圍大概都回到分級醫療，那分級醫療怎麼來的？就是當初有評鑑嘛！有評鑑！"],["邱部長泰源：跟委員報告，讓7年的準醫學中心做醫學中心有一個好處啦！它真的就是看急重症的人。因為它的掛號費比較多，會減少一些可能是輕症的病人。"],["陳委員昭姿：那可以……"],["邱部長泰源：會幫忙其下的區域醫院……"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，你現在說的，可以在這次報告、專案報告裡好好把你想要做檢討的……"],["邱部長泰源：我們可以把這些跟你報告，沒關係啊！我非常願意做報告，因為這是我們共同的理念。"],["陳委員昭姿：它不是單純的醫院評鑑，而是會造成影響的，aftereffect後面的作用、影響是非常大的。"],["邱部長泰源：我們沒有……因為只要南北平衡……"],["陳委員昭姿：原本是要分級醫療，你現在卻讓民眾覺得只有大醫院能夠照顧我。"],["邱部長泰源：像中部，中部的幾個醫院也真的非常努力喔！臺大雲林分院品質非常高，大林慈濟醫院、還有嘉基，這幾個都非常地努力。但問題、不一樣的是，南部那家有7年作為準醫學中心了。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，你也要處理健保，健保的問題我們都還在爭執。你知道上次也有一家要降為「準」，你就沒有讓它降，變成3家，那就等於額外增加2家，照衛福部當時評估，就要多一億多點喔！也就是說，財務評估其實還是在的喔！你說那個部分，但相對上，我為什麼說應該要整個……"],["邱部長泰源：我們可以請石署長來報告一下南部高屏這樣多一家的影響與財務評估。"],["陳委員昭姿：我是希望那是更大的議題啦！我們在預算的部分可以討論，但是今天是不是……我沒有麻煩到署長，是因為今天的臨時提案就是針對今年嘛！你剛剛才公布的東西馬上就沒有遵守，我們不知道發生什麼事情。"],["邱部長泰源：我們每天在這邊努力，就是希望……譬如護理人力不足，我們就馬上想盡辦法調整法令、調整獎勵措施，我們為什麼不能對人民的健康、對南北的資源隨時努力、隨時調整？難道我要等4年嗎？"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，就是因為這次急診壅塞反映了分級醫療的問題嘛！"],["邱部長泰源：請委員一定要諒解啦！諒解到我們每一天都在爭取人民的權利、是不能等的，如果我再等4年、讓它閒在那邊，上不上、下不下也不好，應讓它好好發揮現在有的角色，也可以平衡南北。"],["陳委員昭姿：OK，我了解啦！針對我們的討論，林淑芬委員他們也是要評鑑啦！","基本上，關於我臨時提案的部分，我再跟部長做個確認啦！除了第3項之外，其他我都希望給予保留啦！就是在專案報告裡面要包含這些內容啦！把評鑑的……"],["邱部長泰源：第一，我還是拜託委員不要在裡面提到「違法」或者是怎麼樣，那太傷感情了，我已經被你在立法院的議事錄裡面留下很多「違法」的……"],["陳委員昭姿：「違規」啦！「違規」啦！「違規」啦！你們自己的規定。"],["邱部長泰源：前面有很多，我拜託你修改，但你好像沒有幫我改。我過去在立法院8年，得了多少次優良立委，結果你的質詢稿都把我寫成「違法」、「違」什麼的，情何以堪啦！商量一下啦！因為我真的是站在人民的立場，所以這部分剛剛……"],["陳委員昭姿：我這麼認真，也都被你的支持者罵到臭頭啊！"],["邱部長泰源：真的喔？"],["陳委員昭姿：我的法案啊！還有綠營的朋友啊！是啊！我這麼認真、多專業啊！"],["邱部長泰源：不會啦！你很努力啦！"],["陳委員昭姿：我們回到你自己的規範……"],["邱部長泰源：所以前面不要寫違法不違法啦！我只是說我們……"],["陳委員昭姿：好啦！因為我不要耽誤別的立委的時間。"],["邱部長泰源：然後，關於第一點，就是為什麼增加的理由，我可以具體來寫，沒問題，好不好？以及升格以後對高屏地區資源的影響，這個OK。然後，評定程序的……"],["陳委員昭姿：我們不要耽誤別的委員質詢的時間，就大原則是往這個方向走，那我們再來討論。"],["邱部長泰源：不，不過你如果要通過提案，變成就是要按照這樣來，所以……"],["陳委員昭姿：我剛剛有跟司長做溝通了啦！"],["邱部長泰源：要講清楚一下啦！"],["陳委員昭姿：因為召委已經站起來，我想還是要把時間留給其他委員。"],["邱部長泰源：召委，你怎麼看？"],["主席：現在是否要處理啦？"],["邱部長泰源：現在正在處理這案，不是嗎？"],["陳委員昭姿：要處理啦！就是要處理這件，但是文字我們覺得可以做修正啦！我們可以再討論。"],["邱部長泰源：我是希望修正。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，文字討論。"],["邱部長泰源：還是再討論一下、等一下再跟你討論一下。"],["陳委員昭姿：文字我們討論一下，我不會馬上離開。"],["邱部長泰源：我再跟委員討論一下好了。"],["主席：第1案先保留，劉司長再跟委員溝通一下。","第2案，趕快處理第2案。行政單位有沒有意見？"],["邱部長泰源：這個已經跟委員溝通完畢，會協助提出。沒有意見啦！就是針對申請列入罕病審議，3個月內就辦理情況提交書面報告。"],["主席：就照修訂這個嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：不，好像有改文字，文字要不要唸一下？"],["主席：唸一下好不好？"],["林組長宇旋：有關文字修改的部分：有鑑於衛生福利部本應積極發揮我國罹患「慢性炎症脫髓鞘性多發性神經病變（CIDP）」近500人患者，於加強照顧與醫治，和協助取得適用藥物等應盡之職責。是以，考量當前對CIDP尚未列入罕見疾病，爰決議衛生福利部應協助提供收治病人醫療機構或病友團體有關列入罕見疾病之申請審查程序，俟後並於三個月內向本委員會提交書面報告。以上。"],["主席：陳委員沒有意見喔？"],["邱部長泰源：已經有溝通了。"],["主席：好，第2案就照修正後通過。","第1案先保留。","現在請林淑芬委員質詢，8加4分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":314,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-2","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","涂權吉","黃秀芳","王正旭","林淑芬","羅智強","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","洪孟楷","張啓楷","劉建國","陳培瑜","楊曜","王義川"],"page_start":227,"meetingDate":["2025-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1142701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142701_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長就「有關全國急重症醫療量能」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142701_00005"}}}