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\"房\", \"start\": 236.786, \"end\": 236.806, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 255.596, \"end\": 264.848, \"text\": \"那我想請教我們副主委像台積電這一種公司這麼強已經強到它已經引領全世界\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 255.596, \"end\": 255.696, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 255.696, \"end\": 256.257, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 256.257, \"end\": 256.618, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 256.618, \"end\": 257.078, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 257.078, \"end\": 257.319, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"副\", \"start\": 257.319, \"end\": 257.479, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 257.479, \"end\": 257.619, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 257.619, \"end\": 258.66, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 258.66, \"end\": 259.321, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 259.321, \"end\": 259.822, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"積\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": 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00:01:26,076\n避免有人去哄抬物價然後或者是說去打壓所謂農民的一個收入這件事都是你們要去做的嘛對不對就物價的聯合當然是跨部會之間的事情那本會有本會的執掌主要是這個聯合哄抬價格聯合固定這個市場就有聯合行為嘛或者是有囤積嘛這樣的事情就是你們公平會要管聯合行為的部分\n\n4\n00:01:26,696 --> 00:01:41,208\n所以重點就來了剛剛就講了說事實上以農民來說他的收入基本上是一個很不穩定的收入尤其遇到災害的時候他的災害的時候數量減少數量減少價格自然會高起來所以這個是基本上人家講的過去一句話叫做古建商農這個成語事實上就是有它的一個道理我們看到了說現在說香蕉的價錢因為去年\n\n5\n00:01:55,679 --> 00:02:19,499\n鳳梯尤其有一個叫做納陀河颱風這個鳳梯遭到殖民不得了影響的範圍大家的金錢全部都掃掉了掃掉了的結果是怎樣當然現在沒有香蕉沒有數量沒有數量市場機制無法介紹的企業所以現在介紹比較高但是我們卻看到了國民黨的首席書記長竟然說這個現在的香蕉價格比較高\n\n6\n00:02:24,523 --> 00:02:28,489\n有人問他說這個是遇到詐騙嗎他的臉書就這樣講說這樣是詐騙我想要請教我們主委針對現在江郊的狀況有特定的供應商來進行聯合壟斷嗎\n\n7\n00:02:41,048 --> 00:02:59,791\n根據目前調查現在目前是沒有聯合行為的問題那有同期的狀況嗎目前我們的了解也沒有主要是颱風的因素導致這個供應量大幅減少所以你們掌握就是數量減少數量減少自然它的市場機制那我們也看到現在很多交農都跳出來說因為\n\n8\n00:03:01,372 --> 00:03:16,528\n第一所謂叫第一他們現在催促的他們要進行所以大概下一批要到明年今年度的夏天新的香蕉出來可能價格才會趨於穩定我覺得這種市場機制我們要去尊重而且農民在香蕉介紹賣的時候\n\n9\n00:03:19,010 --> 00:03:24,034\n香蕉價格差的時候,有人要跳出來協助他們嗎?也沒辦法,也要當市場機制把價格再拉回來所以這個有好多的一個狀況,我們真的沒有希望說一塊就讓農民價格比較好\n\n10\n00:03:34,262 --> 00:03:37,785\n就記得有人要出來打壓打壓這些香蕉農這個我們不希望看到所以你們在執行你們公民交易在執行這個聯合壟斷的時候基本上你們也要去注意到怎樣的話物價的一個平穩但是農民的收入不能被傷害這樣好不好\n\n11\n00:03:52,383 --> 00:03:56,806\n所以我們會持續關注這個問題好那接下來事實上也是剛剛很多委員都有在問就是台積電現在他可能會跟其他的企業包括英特爾包括輝達他們可能要去合資然後會去吃下英特爾的一個部分的一個廠房\n\n12\n00:04:15,596 --> 00:04:24,848\n那我想請教我們副主委像台積電這一種公司這麼強已經強到它已經引領全世界\n\n13\n00:04:26,409 --> 00:04:46,034\n他的先進製程達到先進封裝差不多全世界要對他走因為全世界要對他走所有的三項幾乎都是以台積電馬所是瞻我想請教副主委我們過去公平會有遇過台灣曾經有這樣的企業可以達到像台積電這樣的一個巔峰嗎\n\n14\n00:04:49,682 --> 00:05:01,155\n我就個人的所及啊印象所及是沒有像台積電在國際間所以這是第一次嘛第一次台灣有這樣的企業達到你看引領整個世界所以我要跟副主委講的是說事實上從你剛剛說的如果台積電要有這樣的一個這個叫做合併\n\n15\n00:05:08,543 --> 00:05:36,220\n合併的一個行為的話你們會有你們的審查但是你們要審查的時候你們要注意喔我為大家提醒的就是說你們除了要考慮的是過去都說聯合行為或者合併的行為考慮的是台灣的市場我覺得現在不能這樣想你要考慮的是國際市場以及台積電在整個國際佈局的時候怎樣對它的佈局是可以讓這一個企業更加壯大\n\n16\n00:05:37,361 --> 00:06:00,471\n跟委員報告我們審查這基本上都會是我們考慮的因素那特別是在科技業啦那個市場通常在一些案子當中我們會把它擴到全球的角度來看對但是第一個是全球的角度嘛第二個就是說你知道因為台積電它就是這個技術它技術無法被取代既然它無法被取代的情況之下它跟你們傳統在說啊我多少是戰力是獨佔寡佔\n\n17\n00:06:01,792 --> 00:06:21,459\n我覺得這已經超越了所謂獨佔寡占因為他現在就是要跨級全世界而且對我們台灣是一個最具有攻擊性的一個企業像這個企業公平會在審查的時候必須要有更多元的一個考量我想委員現在提到的就是在科技業裡面我們都必須要更進一步去了解一下科技業創新的動能\n\n18\n00:06:22,419 --> 00:06:35,616\n跟結合之間的關係所以這部分我們會審慎去了解所以這一個我覺得很重要所以社會部隊你們要多用心在這一塊最後我再問一個就是說關於現在歐盟\n\n19\n00:06:37,830 --> 00:06:53,609\n要推出了這個所謂數位市場法那這個數位市場法當然是針對現在的一個數位科技那數位科技因為掌握在少數的幾家跨國性的大型企業比方說像Meta像Google像Line\n\n20\n00:06:54,288 --> 00:07:13,396\n像這樣他們都擁有壓倒性大家使用的一個習慣那因為這樣的一個使用習慣就變成了這些平台他們可能在一些廣告的行為或者是一些他們在使用在投射用大數據然後來投放廣告或者是會有詐騙的一個狀況\n\n21\n00:07:15,157 --> 00:07:31,113\n基本上歐盟有注意到這些狀況那我們台灣未來要怎麼去因應這些企業然後他們的一些不作為我覺得應該說不作為去影響到人民的生活\n\n22\n00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:51,390\n我們在2022年的時候有發表了社會政策白皮書那白皮書裡面其實有把本會對於數位平台的執法立場有蠻詳細的說明那基本上目前我們還是會依照那個白皮書的立場就簡單來講就是說我們會優化我們本身在數位平台執法的能量我們會提升同仁對數位平台的了解那另外就是說其實大部分\n\n23\n00:07:52,370 --> 00:08:20,094\n數位平台的一件競爭的問題在目前公平法我們過去的分析架構底下其實我們都可以處理我們要的是讓大同仁還有執法的同仁能夠多一點對數位的了解所以目前我想除了對數位的了解之外以及他們企業跟企業之間的競爭是否公平之外我覺得最主要就是說講白了啦現在的詐騙集團都在用這些數位工具來變成他們行使他們詐騙的武器\n\n24\n00:08:20,795 --> 00:08:23,732\n那這一些平台最主要就是不作為\n\n25\n00:08:25,260 --> 00:08:52,946\n不做耶他一直放任著有人一直在那邊投放一些奇奇怪怪的訊息比方說這個投資理財啊然後請他們去加入LINE加入LINE後再去告訴他們說我要投資哪些股票現在新聞層出不窮啊都是這種狀況結果看起來問題就來自於這一些平台明明有人大量在投放這樣的一些一些錯假訊息也好一些屬於詐騙的一個訊息也好不會受到處罰\n\n26\n00:08:55,031 --> 00:09:21,067\n因為這些詐騙的行為基本上本身有高度的刑事不法的特色那副罪因為我剛剛有聽到說你們涉及到刑事不法你們就拉法務部處理那我現在要問一件事情如果已經判刑確定整個司法程序走完確定這個案件你就是利用我不要講任何一個平台哪一個平台來做你詐騙的手段有判決確定的案例是不是要針對這些平台開罰而且一案一罰\n\n27\n00:09:22,418 --> 00:09:48,478\n因為我們在法律上就是刑事優先原則當然啊我說刑事走完啊我指的是刑事判決確定了走回到了頭我們公平會已經判決確定了換我要出手了你這些平台你們不作為已經讓於這一些犯罪集團把你們當作犯罪工具因為就我了解刑事法法的要求是刑事如果制裁以後原則上不能夠再有其他的刑法的處罰\n\n28\n00:09:50,134 --> 00:10:16,488\n行政法那不一樣喔不一樣喔刑事法是罰犯罪者就是詐騙人我現在指的是你對於平台的不作為所以這是兩件事好不好再思考一下針對已經判決確定的案件公平會應該有所作為這樣才能讓這些平台去正視說為什麼詐騙集團都要用他們的網路上的優勢來投放這一些詐騙訊息\n\n29\n00:10:19,182 --> 00:10:20,630\n我們回去演繹一下謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7786\t36076\t我們請蔡奕宇委員謝謝主席那我們是不是有請陳代理主委請代理主委蔡委員早主委好那我早上基本上每一位委員在質詢的時候我就在聽\n37506\t57883\t那事實上我剛剛有聽到前兩位委員陳超明委員他在質詢的最後他講了有講到我心坎裡去就是說基本上公平會穩定物價是你們的一個工作所以你們要避免聯合操弄然後去干擾物價但是呢你們也要\n59977\t86076\t避免有人去哄抬物價然後或者是說去打壓所謂農民的一個收入這件事都是你們要去做的嘛對不對就物價的聯合當然是跨部會之間的事情那本會有本會的執掌主要是這個聯合哄抬價格聯合固定這個市場就有聯合行為嘛或者是有囤積嘛這樣的事情就是你們公平會要管聯合行為的部分\n86696\t101208\t所以重點就來了剛剛就講了說事實上以農民來說他的收入基本上是一個很不穩定的收入尤其遇到災害的時候他的災害的時候數量減少數量減少價格自然會高起來所以這個是基本上人家講的過去一句話叫做古建商農這個成語事實上就是有它的一個道理我們看到了說現在說香蕉的價錢因為去年\n115679\t139499\t鳳梯尤其有一個叫做納陀河颱風這個鳳梯遭到殖民不得了影響的範圍大家的金錢全部都掃掉了掃掉了的結果是怎樣當然現在沒有香蕉沒有數量沒有數量市場機制無法介紹的企業所以現在介紹比較高但是我們卻看到了國民黨的首席書記長竟然說這個現在的香蕉價格比較高\n144523\t148489\t有人問他說這個是遇到詐騙嗎他的臉書就這樣講說這樣是詐騙我想要請教我們主委針對現在江郊的狀況有特定的供應商來進行聯合壟斷嗎\n161048\t179791\t根據目前調查現在目前是沒有聯合行為的問題那有同期的狀況嗎目前我們的了解也沒有 主要是颱風的因素導致這個供應量大幅減少所以你們掌握就是數量減少 數量減少自然它的市場機制那我們也看到現在很多交農都跳出來說因為\n181372\t196528\t第一 所謂叫 第一 他們現在 催促的 他們要進行所以大概下一批要到明年 今年度的夏天新的香蕉出來 可能價格才會趨於穩定我覺得這種市場機制 我們要去尊重而且農民在香蕉介紹賣的時候\n199010\t204034\t香蕉價格差的時候,有人要跳出來協助他們嗎?也沒辦法,也要當市場機制把價格再拉回來所以這個有好多的一個狀況,我們真的沒有希望說一塊就讓農民價格比較好\n214262\t217785\t就記得有人要出來打壓打壓這些香蕉農這個我們不希望看到所以你們在執行你們公民交易在執行這個聯合壟斷的時候基本上你們也要去注意到怎樣的話物價的一個平穩但是農民的收入不能被傷害這樣好不好\n232383\t236806\t所以我們會持續關注這個問題好那接下來事實上也是剛剛很多委員都有在問就是台積電現在他可能會跟其他的企業包括英特爾包括輝達他們可能要去合資然後會去吃下英特爾的一個部分的一個廠房\n255596\t264848\t那我想請教我們副主委像台積電這一種公司這麼強已經強到它已經引領全世界\n266409\t286034\t他的先進製程達到先進封裝差不多全世界要對他走因為全世界要對他走所有的三項幾乎都是以台積電馬所是瞻我想請教副主委我們過去公平會有遇過台灣曾經有這樣的企業可以達到像台積電這樣的一個巔峰嗎\n289682\t301155\t我就個人的所及啊 印象所及是沒有像台積電在國際間所以這是第一次嘛第一次台灣有這樣的企業達到你看引領整個世界所以我要跟副主委講的是說事實上從你剛剛說的如果台積電要有這樣的一個這個叫做合併\n308543\t336220\t合併的一個行為的話你們會有你們的審查但是你們要審查的時候你們要注意喔我為大家提醒的就是說你們除了要考慮的是過去都說聯合行為或者合併的行為考慮的是台灣的市場我覺得現在不能這樣想你要考慮的是國際市場以及台積電在整個國際佈局的時候怎樣對它的佈局是可以讓這一個企業更加壯大\n337361\t360471\t跟委員報告我們審查這基本上都會是我們考慮的因素那特別是在科技業啦那個市場通常在一些案子當中我們會把它擴到全球的角度來看對但是第一個是全球的角度嘛第二個就是說你知道因為台積電它就是這個技術它技術無法被取代既然它無法被取代的情況之下它跟你們傳統在說啊我多少是戰力是獨佔寡佔\n361792\t381459\t我覺得這已經超越了所謂獨佔寡占因為他現在就是要跨級全世界而且對我們台灣是一個最具有攻擊性的一個企業像這個企業公平會在審查的時候必須要有更多元的一個考量我想委員現在提到的就是在科技業裡面我們都必須要更進一步去了解一下科技業創新的動能\n382419\t395616\t跟結合之間的關係所以這部分我們會審慎去了解所以這一個我覺得很重要所以社會部隊你們要多用心在這一塊最後我再問一個就是說關於現在歐盟\n397830\t413609\t要推出了這個所謂數位市場法那這個數位市場法當然是針對現在的一個數位科技那數位科技因為掌握在少數的幾家跨國性的大型企業比方說像Meta 像Google 像Line\n414288\t433396\t像這樣他們都擁有壓倒性大家使用的一個習慣那因為這樣的一個使用習慣就變成了這些平台他們可能在一些廣告的行為或者是一些他們在使用在投射用大數據然後來投放廣告或者是會有詐騙的一個狀況\n435157\t451113\t基本上歐盟有注意到這些狀況那我們台灣未來要怎麼去因應這些企業然後他們的一些不作為我覺得應該說不作為去影響到人民的生活\n452120\t471390\t我們在2022年的時候有發表了社會政策白皮書那白皮書裡面其實有把本會對於數位平台的執法立場有蠻詳細的說明那基本上目前我們還是會依照那個白皮書的立場就簡單來講就是說我們會優化我們本身在數位平台執法的能量我們會提升同仁對數位平台的了解那另外就是說其實大部分\n472370\t500094\t數位平台的一件競爭的問題在目前公平法我們過去的分析架構底下其實我們都可以處理我們要的是讓大同仁還有執法的同仁能夠多一點對數位的了解所以目前我想除了對數位的了解之外以及他們企業跟企業之間的競爭是否公平之外我覺得最主要就是說講白了啦現在的詐騙集團都在用這些數位工具來變成他們行使他們詐騙的武器\n500795\t503732\t那這一些平台最主要就是不作為\n505260\t532946\t不做耶 他一直放任著 有人一直在那邊投放一些奇奇怪怪的訊息比方說這個投資理財啊然後請他們去加入LINE 加入LINE後再去告訴他們說我要投資哪些股票現在新聞層出不窮啊都是這種狀況 結果看起來問題就來自於這一些平台明明有人大量在投放這樣的一些一些錯假訊息也好一些屬於詐騙的一個訊息也好不會受到處罰\n535031\t561067\t因為這些詐騙的行為基本上本身有高度的刑事不法的特色那副罪因為我剛剛有聽到說你們涉及到刑事不法你們就拉法務部處理那我現在要問一件事情如果已經判刑確定整個司法程序走完確定這個案件你就是利用我不要講任何一個平台哪一個平台來做你詐騙的手段有判決確定的案例是不是要針對這些平台開罰而且一案一罰\n562418\t588478\t因為我們在法律上就是刑事優先原則當然啊 我說刑事走完啊我指的是刑事判決確定了走回到了頭 我們公平會已經判決確定了 換我要出手了你這些平台 你們不作為已經讓於這一些犯罪集團把你們當作犯罪工具因為就我了解 刑事法法的要求是刑事如果制裁以後原則上不能夠再有其他的刑法的處罰\n590134\t616488\t行政法那不一樣喔不一樣喔刑事法是罰犯罪者就是詐騙人我現在指的是你對於平台的不作為所以這是兩件事好不好再思考一下針對已經判決確定的案件公平會應該有所作為這樣才能讓這些平台去正視說為什麼詐騙集團都要用他們的網路上的優勢來投放這一些詐騙訊息\n619182\t620630\t我們回去演繹一下 謝謝\n","txt":"我們請蔡奕宇委員謝謝主席那我們是不是有請陳代理主委請代理主委蔡委員早主委好那我早上基本上每一位委員在質詢的時候我就在聽\n那事實上我剛剛有聽到前兩位委員陳超明委員他在質詢的最後他講了有講到我心坎裡去就是說基本上公平會穩定物價是你們的一個工作所以你們要避免聯合操弄然後去干擾物價但是呢你們也要\n避免有人去哄抬物價然後或者是說去打壓所謂農民的一個收入這件事都是你們要去做的嘛對不對就物價的聯合當然是跨部會之間的事情那本會有本會的執掌主要是這個聯合哄抬價格聯合固定這個市場就有聯合行為嘛或者是有囤積嘛這樣的事情就是你們公平會要管聯合行為的部分\n所以重點就來了剛剛就講了說事實上以農民來說他的收入基本上是一個很不穩定的收入尤其遇到災害的時候他的災害的時候數量減少數量減少價格自然會高起來所以這個是基本上人家講的過去一句話叫做古建商農這個成語事實上就是有它的一個道理我們看到了說現在說香蕉的價錢因為去年\n鳳梯尤其有一個叫做納陀河颱風這個鳳梯遭到殖民不得了影響的範圍大家的金錢全部都掃掉了掃掉了的結果是怎樣當然現在沒有香蕉沒有數量沒有數量市場機制無法介紹的企業所以現在介紹比較高但是我們卻看到了國民黨的首席書記長竟然說這個現在的香蕉價格比較高\n有人問他說這個是遇到詐騙嗎他的臉書就這樣講說這樣是詐騙我想要請教我們主委針對現在江郊的狀況有特定的供應商來進行聯合壟斷嗎\n根據目前調查現在目前是沒有聯合行為的問題那有同期的狀況嗎目前我們的了解也沒有 主要是颱風的因素導致這個供應量大幅減少所以你們掌握就是數量減少 數量減少自然它的市場機制那我們也看到現在很多交農都跳出來說因為\n第一 所謂叫 第一 他們現在 催促的 他們要進行所以大概下一批要到明年 今年度的夏天新的香蕉出來 可能價格才會趨於穩定我覺得這種市場機制 我們要去尊重而且農民在香蕉介紹賣的時候\n香蕉價格差的時候,有人要跳出來協助他們嗎?也沒辦法,也要當市場機制把價格再拉回來所以這個有好多的一個狀況,我們真的沒有希望說一塊就讓農民價格比較好\n就記得有人要出來打壓打壓這些香蕉農這個我們不希望看到所以你們在執行你們公民交易在執行這個聯合壟斷的時候基本上你們也要去注意到怎樣的話物價的一個平穩但是農民的收入不能被傷害這樣好不好\n所以我們會持續關注這個問題好那接下來事實上也是剛剛很多委員都有在問就是台積電現在他可能會跟其他的企業包括英特爾包括輝達他們可能要去合資然後會去吃下英特爾的一個部分的一個廠房\n那我想請教我們副主委像台積電這一種公司這麼強已經強到它已經引領全世界\n他的先進製程達到先進封裝差不多全世界要對他走因為全世界要對他走所有的三項幾乎都是以台積電馬所是瞻我想請教副主委我們過去公平會有遇過台灣曾經有這樣的企業可以達到像台積電這樣的一個巔峰嗎\n我就個人的所及啊 印象所及是沒有像台積電在國際間所以這是第一次嘛第一次台灣有這樣的企業達到你看引領整個世界所以我要跟副主委講的是說事實上從你剛剛說的如果台積電要有這樣的一個這個叫做合併\n合併的一個行為的話你們會有你們的審查但是你們要審查的時候你們要注意喔我為大家提醒的就是說你們除了要考慮的是過去都說聯合行為或者合併的行為考慮的是台灣的市場我覺得現在不能這樣想你要考慮的是國際市場以及台積電在整個國際佈局的時候怎樣對它的佈局是可以讓這一個企業更加壯大\n跟委員報告我們審查這基本上都會是我們考慮的因素那特別是在科技業啦那個市場通常在一些案子當中我們會把它擴到全球的角度來看對但是第一個是全球的角度嘛第二個就是說你知道因為台積電它就是這個技術它技術無法被取代既然它無法被取代的情況之下它跟你們傳統在說啊我多少是戰力是獨佔寡佔\n我覺得這已經超越了所謂獨佔寡占因為他現在就是要跨級全世界而且對我們台灣是一個最具有攻擊性的一個企業像這個企業公平會在審查的時候必須要有更多元的一個考量我想委員現在提到的就是在科技業裡面我們都必須要更進一步去了解一下科技業創新的動能\n跟結合之間的關係所以這部分我們會審慎去了解所以這一個我覺得很重要所以社會部隊你們要多用心在這一塊最後我再問一個就是說關於現在歐盟\n要推出了這個所謂數位市場法那這個數位市場法當然是針對現在的一個數位科技那數位科技因為掌握在少數的幾家跨國性的大型企業比方說像Meta 像Google 像Line\n像這樣他們都擁有壓倒性大家使用的一個習慣那因為這樣的一個使用習慣就變成了這些平台他們可能在一些廣告的行為或者是一些他們在使用在投射用大數據然後來投放廣告或者是會有詐騙的一個狀況\n基本上歐盟有注意到這些狀況那我們台灣未來要怎麼去因應這些企業然後他們的一些不作為我覺得應該說不作為去影響到人民的生活\n我們在2022年的時候有發表了社會政策白皮書那白皮書裡面其實有把本會對於數位平台的執法立場有蠻詳細的說明那基本上目前我們還是會依照那個白皮書的立場就簡單來講就是說我們會優化我們本身在數位平台執法的能量我們會提升同仁對數位平台的了解那另外就是說其實大部分\n數位平台的一件競爭的問題在目前公平法我們過去的分析架構底下其實我們都可以處理我們要的是讓大同仁還有執法的同仁能夠多一點對數位的了解所以目前我想除了對數位的了解之外以及他們企業跟企業之間的競爭是否公平之外我覺得最主要就是說講白了啦現在的詐騙集團都在用這些數位工具來變成他們行使他們詐騙的武器\n那這一些平台最主要就是不作為\n不做耶 他一直放任著 有人一直在那邊投放一些奇奇怪怪的訊息比方說這個投資理財啊然後請他們去加入LINE 加入LINE後再去告訴他們說我要投資哪些股票現在新聞層出不窮啊都是這種狀況 結果看起來問題就來自於這一些平台明明有人大量在投放這樣的一些一些錯假訊息也好一些屬於詐騙的一個訊息也好不會受到處罰\n因為這些詐騙的行為基本上本身有高度的刑事不法的特色那副罪因為我剛剛有聽到說你們涉及到刑事不法你們就拉法務部處理那我現在要問一件事情如果已經判刑確定整個司法程序走完確定這個案件你就是利用我不要講任何一個平台哪一個平台來做你詐騙的手段有判決確定的案例是不是要針對這些平台開罰而且一案一罰\n因為我們在法律上就是刑事優先原則當然啊 我說刑事走完啊我指的是刑事判決確定了走回到了頭 我們公平會已經判決確定了 換我要出手了你這些平台 你們不作為已經讓於這一些犯罪集團把你們當作犯罪工具因為就我了解 刑事法法的要求是刑事如果制裁以後原則上不能夠再有其他的刑法的處罰\n行政法那不一樣喔不一樣喔刑事法是罰犯罪者就是詐騙人我現在指的是你對於平台的不作為所以這是兩件事好不好再思考一下針對已經判決確定的案件公平會應該有所作為這樣才能讓這些平台去正視說為什麼詐騙集團都要用他們的網路上的優勢來投放這一些詐騙訊息\n我們回去演繹一下 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.786 --> 00:36.076\n我們請蔡奕宇委員謝謝主席那我們是不是有請陳代理主委請代理主委蔡委員早主委好那我早上基本上每一位委員在質詢的時候我就在聽\n\n00:37.506 --> 00:57.883\n那事實上我剛剛有聽到前兩位委員陳超明委員他在質詢的最後他講了有講到我心坎裡去就是說基本上公平會穩定物價是你們的一個工作所以你們要避免聯合操弄然後去干擾物價但是呢你們也要\n\n00:59.977 --> 01:26.076\n避免有人去哄抬物價然後或者是說去打壓所謂農民的一個收入這件事都是你們要去做的嘛對不對就物價的聯合當然是跨部會之間的事情那本會有本會的執掌主要是這個聯合哄抬價格聯合固定這個市場就有聯合行為嘛或者是有囤積嘛這樣的事情就是你們公平會要管聯合行為的部分\n\n01:26.696 --> 01:41.208\n所以重點就來了剛剛就講了說事實上以農民來說他的收入基本上是一個很不穩定的收入尤其遇到災害的時候他的災害的時候數量減少數量減少價格自然會高起來所以這個是基本上人家講的過去一句話叫做古建商農這個成語事實上就是有它的一個道理我們看到了說現在說香蕉的價錢因為去年\n\n01:55.679 --> 02:19.499\n鳳梯尤其有一個叫做納陀河颱風這個鳳梯遭到殖民不得了影響的範圍大家的金錢全部都掃掉了掃掉了的結果是怎樣當然現在沒有香蕉沒有數量沒有數量市場機制無法介紹的企業所以現在介紹比較高但是我們卻看到了國民黨的首席書記長竟然說這個現在的香蕉價格比較高\n\n02:24.523 --> 02:28.489\n有人問他說這個是遇到詐騙嗎他的臉書就這樣講說這樣是詐騙我想要請教我們主委針對現在江郊的狀況有特定的供應商來進行聯合壟斷嗎\n\n02:41.048 --> 02:59.791\n根據目前調查現在目前是沒有聯合行為的問題那有同期的狀況嗎目前我們的了解也沒有主要是颱風的因素導致這個供應量大幅減少所以你們掌握就是數量減少數量減少自然它的市場機制那我們也看到現在很多交農都跳出來說因為\n\n03:01.372 --> 03:16.528\n第一所謂叫第一他們現在催促的他們要進行所以大概下一批要到明年今年度的夏天新的香蕉出來可能價格才會趨於穩定我覺得這種市場機制我們要去尊重而且農民在香蕉介紹賣的時候\n\n03:19.010 --> 03:24.034\n香蕉價格差的時候,有人要跳出來協助他們嗎?也沒辦法,也要當市場機制把價格再拉回來所以這個有好多的一個狀況,我們真的沒有希望說一塊就讓農民價格比較好\n\n03:34.262 --> 03:37.785\n就記得有人要出來打壓打壓這些香蕉農這個我們不希望看到所以你們在執行你們公民交易在執行這個聯合壟斷的時候基本上你們也要去注意到怎樣的話物價的一個平穩但是農民的收入不能被傷害這樣好不好\n\n03:52.383 --> 03:56.806\n所以我們會持續關注這個問題好那接下來事實上也是剛剛很多委員都有在問就是台積電現在他可能會跟其他的企業包括英特爾包括輝達他們可能要去合資然後會去吃下英特爾的一個部分的一個廠房\n\n04:15.596 --> 04:24.848\n那我想請教我們副主委像台積電這一種公司這麼強已經強到它已經引領全世界\n\n04:26.409 --> 04:46.034\n他的先進製程達到先進封裝差不多全世界要對他走因為全世界要對他走所有的三項幾乎都是以台積電馬所是瞻我想請教副主委我們過去公平會有遇過台灣曾經有這樣的企業可以達到像台積電這樣的一個巔峰嗎\n\n04:49.682 --> 05:01.155\n我就個人的所及啊印象所及是沒有像台積電在國際間所以這是第一次嘛第一次台灣有這樣的企業達到你看引領整個世界所以我要跟副主委講的是說事實上從你剛剛說的如果台積電要有這樣的一個這個叫做合併\n\n05:08.543 --> 05:36.220\n合併的一個行為的話你們會有你們的審查但是你們要審查的時候你們要注意喔我為大家提醒的就是說你們除了要考慮的是過去都說聯合行為或者合併的行為考慮的是台灣的市場我覺得現在不能這樣想你要考慮的是國際市場以及台積電在整個國際佈局的時候怎樣對它的佈局是可以讓這一個企業更加壯大\n\n05:37.361 --> 06:00.471\n跟委員報告我們審查這基本上都會是我們考慮的因素那特別是在科技業啦那個市場通常在一些案子當中我們會把它擴到全球的角度來看對但是第一個是全球的角度嘛第二個就是說你知道因為台積電它就是這個技術它技術無法被取代既然它無法被取代的情況之下它跟你們傳統在說啊我多少是戰力是獨佔寡佔\n\n06:01.792 --> 06:21.459\n我覺得這已經超越了所謂獨佔寡占因為他現在就是要跨級全世界而且對我們台灣是一個最具有攻擊性的一個企業像這個企業公平會在審查的時候必須要有更多元的一個考量我想委員現在提到的就是在科技業裡面我們都必須要更進一步去了解一下科技業創新的動能\n\n06:22.419 --> 06:35.616\n跟結合之間的關係所以這部分我們會審慎去了解所以這一個我覺得很重要所以社會部隊你們要多用心在這一塊最後我再問一個就是說關於現在歐盟\n\n06:37.830 --> 06:53.609\n要推出了這個所謂數位市場法那這個數位市場法當然是針對現在的一個數位科技那數位科技因為掌握在少數的幾家跨國性的大型企業比方說像Meta像Google像Line\n\n06:54.288 --> 07:13.396\n像這樣他們都擁有壓倒性大家使用的一個習慣那因為這樣的一個使用習慣就變成了這些平台他們可能在一些廣告的行為或者是一些他們在使用在投射用大數據然後來投放廣告或者是會有詐騙的一個狀況\n\n07:15.157 --> 07:31.113\n基本上歐盟有注意到這些狀況那我們台灣未來要怎麼去因應這些企業然後他們的一些不作為我覺得應該說不作為去影響到人民的生活\n\n07:32.120 --> 07:51.390\n我們在2022年的時候有發表了社會政策白皮書那白皮書裡面其實有把本會對於數位平台的執法立場有蠻詳細的說明那基本上目前我們還是會依照那個白皮書的立場就簡單來講就是說我們會優化我們本身在數位平台執法的能量我們會提升同仁對數位平台的了解那另外就是說其實大部分\n\n07:52.370 --> 08:20.094\n數位平台的一件競爭的問題在目前公平法我們過去的分析架構底下其實我們都可以處理我們要的是讓大同仁還有執法的同仁能夠多一點對數位的了解所以目前我想除了對數位的了解之外以及他們企業跟企業之間的競爭是否公平之外我覺得最主要就是說講白了啦現在的詐騙集團都在用這些數位工具來變成他們行使他們詐騙的武器\n\n08:20.795 --> 08:23.732\n那這一些平台最主要就是不作為\n\n08:25.260 --> 08:52.946\n不做耶他一直放任著有人一直在那邊投放一些奇奇怪怪的訊息比方說這個投資理財啊然後請他們去加入LINE加入LINE後再去告訴他們說我要投資哪些股票現在新聞層出不窮啊都是這種狀況結果看起來問題就來自於這一些平台明明有人大量在投放這樣的一些一些錯假訊息也好一些屬於詐騙的一個訊息也好不會受到處罰\n\n08:55.031 --> 09:21.067\n因為這些詐騙的行為基本上本身有高度的刑事不法的特色那副罪因為我剛剛有聽到說你們涉及到刑事不法你們就拉法務部處理那我現在要問一件事情如果已經判刑確定整個司法程序走完確定這個案件你就是利用我不要講任何一個平台哪一個平台來做你詐騙的手段有判決確定的案例是不是要針對這些平台開罰而且一案一罰\n\n09:22.418 --> 09:48.478\n因為我們在法律上就是刑事優先原則當然啊我說刑事走完啊我指的是刑事判決確定了走回到了頭我們公平會已經判決確定了換我要出手了你這些平台你們不作為已經讓於這一些犯罪集團把你們當作犯罪工具因為就我了解刑事法法的要求是刑事如果制裁以後原則上不能夠再有其他的刑法的處罰\n\n09:50.134 --> 10:16.488\n行政法那不一樣喔不一樣喔刑事法是罰犯罪者就是詐騙人我現在指的是你對於平台的不作為所以這是兩件事好不好再思考一下針對已經判決確定的案件公平會應該有所作為這樣才能讓這些平台去正視說為什麼詐騙集團都要用他們的網路上的優勢來投放這一些詐騙訊息\n\n10:19.182 --> 10:20.630\n我們回去演繹一下謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.786,"end":36.076,"text":"我們請蔡奕宇委員謝謝主席那我們是不是有請陳代理主委請代理主委蔡委員早主委好那我早上基本上每一位委員在質詢的時候我就在聽"},{"start":37.506,"end":57.883,"text":"那事實上我剛剛有聽到前兩位委員陳超明委員他在質詢的最後他講了有講到我心坎裡去就是說基本上公平會穩定物價是你們的一個工作所以你們要避免聯合操弄然後去干擾物價但是呢你們也要"},{"start":59.977,"end":86.076,"text":"避免有人去哄抬物價然後或者是說去打壓所謂農民的一個收入這件事都是你們要去做的嘛對不對就物價的聯合當然是跨部會之間的事情那本會有本會的執掌主要是這個聯合哄抬價格聯合固定這個市場就有聯合行為嘛或者是有囤積嘛這樣的事情就是你們公平會要管聯合行為的部分"},{"start":86.696,"end":101.208,"text":"所以重點就來了剛剛就講了說事實上以農民來說他的收入基本上是一個很不穩定的收入尤其遇到災害的時候他的災害的時候數量減少數量減少價格自然會高起來所以這個是基本上人家講的過去一句話叫做古建商農這個成語事實上就是有它的一個道理我們看到了說現在說香蕉的價錢因為去年"},{"start":115.679,"end":139.499,"text":"鳳梯尤其有一個叫做納陀河颱風這個鳳梯遭到殖民不得了影響的範圍大家的金錢全部都掃掉了掃掉了的結果是怎樣當然現在沒有香蕉沒有數量沒有數量市場機制無法介紹的企業所以現在介紹比較高但是我們卻看到了國民黨的首席書記長竟然說這個現在的香蕉價格比較高"},{"start":144.523,"end":148.489,"text":"有人問他說這個是遇到詐騙嗎他的臉書就這樣講說這樣是詐騙我想要請教我們主委針對現在江郊的狀況有特定的供應商來進行聯合壟斷嗎"},{"start":161.048,"end":179.791,"text":"根據目前調查現在目前是沒有聯合行為的問題那有同期的狀況嗎目前我們的了解也沒有 主要是颱風的因素導致這個供應量大幅減少所以你們掌握就是數量減少 數量減少自然它的市場機制那我們也看到現在很多交農都跳出來說因為"},{"start":181.372,"end":196.528,"text":"第一 所謂叫 第一 他們現在 催促的 他們要進行所以大概下一批要到明年 今年度的夏天新的香蕉出來 可能價格才會趨於穩定我覺得這種市場機制 我們要去尊重而且農民在香蕉介紹賣的時候"},{"start":199.01,"end":204.034,"text":"香蕉價格差的時候,有人要跳出來協助他們嗎?也沒辦法,也要當市場機制把價格再拉回來所以這個有好多的一個狀況,我們真的沒有希望說一塊就讓農民價格比較好"},{"start":214.262,"end":217.785,"text":"就記得有人要出來打壓打壓這些香蕉農這個我們不希望看到所以你們在執行你們公民交易在執行這個聯合壟斷的時候基本上你們也要去注意到怎樣的話物價的一個平穩但是農民的收入不能被傷害這樣好不好"},{"start":232.383,"end":236.806,"text":"所以我們會持續關注這個問題好那接下來事實上也是剛剛很多委員都有在問就是台積電現在他可能會跟其他的企業包括英特爾包括輝達他們可能要去合資然後會去吃下英特爾的一個部分的一個廠房"},{"start":255.596,"end":264.848,"text":"那我想請教我們副主委像台積電這一種公司這麼強已經強到它已經引領全世界"},{"start":266.409,"end":286.034,"text":"他的先進製程達到先進封裝差不多全世界要對他走因為全世界要對他走所有的三項幾乎都是以台積電馬所是瞻我想請教副主委我們過去公平會有遇過台灣曾經有這樣的企業可以達到像台積電這樣的一個巔峰嗎"},{"start":289.682,"end":301.155,"text":"我就個人的所及啊 印象所及是沒有像台積電在國際間所以這是第一次嘛第一次台灣有這樣的企業達到你看引領整個世界所以我要跟副主委講的是說事實上從你剛剛說的如果台積電要有這樣的一個這個叫做合併"},{"start":308.543,"end":336.22,"text":"合併的一個行為的話你們會有你們的審查但是你們要審查的時候你們要注意喔我為大家提醒的就是說你們除了要考慮的是過去都說聯合行為或者合併的行為考慮的是台灣的市場我覺得現在不能這樣想你要考慮的是國際市場以及台積電在整個國際佈局的時候怎樣對它的佈局是可以讓這一個企業更加壯大"},{"start":337.361,"end":360.471,"text":"跟委員報告我們審查這基本上都會是我們考慮的因素那特別是在科技業啦那個市場通常在一些案子當中我們會把它擴到全球的角度來看對但是第一個是全球的角度嘛第二個就是說你知道因為台積電它就是這個技術它技術無法被取代既然它無法被取代的情況之下它跟你們傳統在說啊我多少是戰力是獨佔寡佔"},{"start":361.792,"end":381.459,"text":"我覺得這已經超越了所謂獨佔寡占因為他現在就是要跨級全世界而且對我們台灣是一個最具有攻擊性的一個企業像這個企業公平會在審查的時候必須要有更多元的一個考量我想委員現在提到的就是在科技業裡面我們都必須要更進一步去了解一下科技業創新的動能"},{"start":382.419,"end":395.616,"text":"跟結合之間的關係所以這部分我們會審慎去了解所以這一個我覺得很重要所以社會部隊你們要多用心在這一塊最後我再問一個就是說關於現在歐盟"},{"start":397.83,"end":413.609,"text":"要推出了這個所謂數位市場法那這個數位市場法當然是針對現在的一個數位科技那數位科技因為掌握在少數的幾家跨國性的大型企業比方說像Meta 像Google 像Line"},{"start":414.288,"end":433.396,"text":"像這樣他們都擁有壓倒性大家使用的一個習慣那因為這樣的一個使用習慣就變成了這些平台他們可能在一些廣告的行為或者是一些他們在使用在投射用大數據然後來投放廣告或者是會有詐騙的一個狀況"},{"start":435.157,"end":451.113,"text":"基本上歐盟有注意到這些狀況那我們台灣未來要怎麼去因應這些企業然後他們的一些不作為我覺得應該說不作為去影響到人民的生活"},{"start":452.12,"end":471.39,"text":"我們在2022年的時候有發表了社會政策白皮書那白皮書裡面其實有把本會對於數位平台的執法立場有蠻詳細的說明那基本上目前我們還是會依照那個白皮書的立場就簡單來講就是說我們會優化我們本身在數位平台執法的能量我們會提升同仁對數位平台的了解那另外就是說其實大部分"},{"start":472.37,"end":500.094,"text":"數位平台的一件競爭的問題在目前公平法我們過去的分析架構底下其實我們都可以處理我們要的是讓大同仁還有執法的同仁能夠多一點對數位的了解所以目前我想除了對數位的了解之外以及他們企業跟企業之間的競爭是否公平之外我覺得最主要就是說講白了啦現在的詐騙集團都在用這些數位工具來變成他們行使他們詐騙的武器"},{"start":500.795,"end":503.732,"text":"那這一些平台最主要就是不作為"},{"start":505.26,"end":532.946,"text":"不做耶 他一直放任著 有人一直在那邊投放一些奇奇怪怪的訊息比方說這個投資理財啊然後請他們去加入LINE 加入LINE後再去告訴他們說我要投資哪些股票現在新聞層出不窮啊都是這種狀況 結果看起來問題就來自於這一些平台明明有人大量在投放這樣的一些一些錯假訊息也好一些屬於詐騙的一個訊息也好不會受到處罰"},{"start":535.031,"end":561.067,"text":"因為這些詐騙的行為基本上本身有高度的刑事不法的特色那副罪因為我剛剛有聽到說你們涉及到刑事不法你們就拉法務部處理那我現在要問一件事情如果已經判刑確定整個司法程序走完確定這個案件你就是利用我不要講任何一個平台哪一個平台來做你詐騙的手段有判決確定的案例是不是要針對這些平台開罰而且一案一罰"},{"start":562.418,"end":588.478,"text":"因為我們在法律上就是刑事優先原則當然啊 我說刑事走完啊我指的是刑事判決確定了走回到了頭 我們公平會已經判決確定了 換我要出手了你這些平台 你們不作為已經讓於這一些犯罪集團把你們當作犯罪工具因為就我了解 刑事法法的要求是刑事如果制裁以後原則上不能夠再有其他的刑法的處罰"},{"start":590.134,"end":616.488,"text":"行政法那不一樣喔不一樣喔刑事法是罰犯罪者就是詐騙人我現在指的是你對於平台的不作為所以這是兩件事好不好再思考一下針對已經判決確定的案件公平會應該有所作為這樣才能讓這些平台去正視說為什麼詐騙集團都要用他們的網路上的優勢來投放這一些詐騙訊息"},{"start":619.182,"end":620.63,"text":"我們回去演繹一下 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":758,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（11時41分）謝謝主席。有請陳代理主委。"],["主席：請陳代理主委。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：蔡委員早。"],["蔡委員易餘：主委好。早上基本上每位委員在質詢的時候我就坐在那邊聽，事實上我剛剛有聽到前兩位委員，陳超明委員在質詢最後講的有講到我心坎裡，就是基本上穩定物價是你們公平會的一個工作，所以你們要避免聯合操弄然後去干擾物價，但是你們也要避免有人哄抬物價或者是去打壓農民的收入，這件事都是你們要去做的，對不對？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：就物價的聯合當然是跨部會之間的事情，本會有本會的職掌，主要是聯合哄抬價格、聯合囤積……對不起，聯合固定這個市場價格……"],["蔡委員易餘：就是有聯合行為或者是有囤積這樣的事情就是你們公平會要管的。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：聯合行為的部分。"],["蔡委員易餘：所以重點就來了，我剛剛就講了，事實上以農民來說他的收入基本上是一個很不穩定的收入，尤其遇到災害的時候他的數量減少，數量減少價格自然會高起來，所以這個基本上就是人家過去說的一句話叫做「穀賤傷農」，這個成語事實上是有它的道理。我們看到了現在香蕉的價錢因為去年颱風，尤其有一個叫做山陀兒颱風，這個颱風跑得很慢，不過影響的範圍把全部的香蕉樹都掃倒光光，全被掃倒光光之後的結果是怎麼樣？當然是現在沒有香蕉、沒有數量，因為沒有數量，市場機制價格就會上揚，所以現在價格比較高。但是我們卻看到國民黨的首席書記長竟然說：現在的香蕉價格比較高，有人問他說這個是遇到詐騙嗎？他的臉書就這樣講，說這樣是詐騙。我想要請教主委，針對現在香蕉的狀況，有特定的供應商進行聯合壟斷嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：根據我們的調查現在是沒有聯合行為的問題，我們知道這是因為颱風……"],["蔡委員易餘：那有囤積的狀況嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：目前我們的了解也沒有。"],["蔡委員易餘：也沒有嘛！"],["陳代理主任委員志民：主要是颱風的因素導致供應量大幅減少。"],["蔡委員易餘：所以你們掌握的就是數量減少，是數量減少的自然市場機制嘛！"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：我們也看到很多蕉農都跳出來說，因為第一數量少，第二他們被吹倒的現在要重種，所以大概下一批要到今年度夏天新的香蕉收成，可能價格才會趨於穩定。我覺得這種市場機制我們要去尊重，而且農民在香蕉價格差的時候有人要跳出來協助他們嗎？也沒辦法耶，也是要等市場機制把價格再拉回來。所以這個有好多的狀況，我們真的很不希望一看到價格比較好就有人要出來打壓這些香蕉農，這個我們不希望看到。所以你們公平交易委員會在執行這個聯合壟斷的時候基本上你們也要去注意到物價的平穩，但是農民的收入不能被傷害，這樣好不好？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我們會持續關注這個問題。"],["蔡委員易餘：好。接下來事實上也是剛剛很多委員都在問的，就是台積電現在可能會跟其他的企業，包括Intel、包括輝達，他們可能要去合資，然後會去吃下Intel部分的廠房，我想請教副主委，像台積電這一種公司這麼強，它強到已經引領全世界，它的先進製程、先進封裝差不多全世界要跟著它走，因為全世界要跟著它走，所以所有的產業幾乎都是以台積電馬首是瞻。我想請教副主委，我們公平會過去遇過臺灣曾經有這樣的企業可以達到像台積電這樣的巔峰嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：就我個人印象所及是沒有像台積電在國際上……"],["蔡委員易餘：所以這是第一次嘛，第一次臺灣有這樣的企業達到引領整個世界，所以我要跟副主委講的是，事實上從你剛剛說的，如果台積電要有這樣的一個合併行為的話，你們會有你們的審查，但是你們要審查的時候要注意喔，我要提醒你們的就是過去我們都說聯合行為或者合併行為考慮的是臺灣的市場，我覺得現在不能這樣想，你要考慮的是國際市場，以及台積電在整個國際布局的時候怎樣的布局可以讓這一個企業更加壯大。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：跟委員報告，我們審查時基本上這都會是我們考慮的因素，特別是在科技業，那個市場通常在一些案子當中我們會把它擴到全球的角度來看。"],["蔡委員易餘：對，第一個是全球的角度嘛！"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：第二個就是你要知道台積電就是這個技術，它的技術無法被取代，既然它在無法被取代的情況之下，它跟你們傳統在說多少市占率是獨占、寡占，我覺得這已經超越了所謂獨占、寡占，因為他現在就是要跨局全世界，而且對我們臺灣是一個最具有攻擊性的企業，像這種企業，公平會在審查的時候必須要有更多元的考量。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我想委員現在提到的就是在科技業裡面我們都必須要更進一步去了解一下科技業創新的動能跟結合之間的關係，所以這部分我們會審慎去了解。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，這一個我覺得很重要，所以副主委就你們要多用心在這一塊。","最後我再問一個，關於現在歐盟要推出的所謂數位市場法，這個數位市場法當然是針對現在的數位科技，數位科技因為掌握在少數的幾家跨國性的大型企業，比方像Meta、像Google、像LINE，他們都擁有壓倒性大家使用的一個習慣，因為這樣的一個使用習慣就變成了這些平台可能在一些廣告行為或者是一些他們使用在投射、用大數據然後來投放廣告，或者是會有詐騙的一個狀況，基本上歐盟有注意到這些狀況，那我們臺灣呢？臺灣未來要怎麼去因應這一些企業的一些不作為？我覺得應該說不作為，去影響到人民的生活。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我們在2022年的時候有發表了數位政策白皮書，白皮書裡面其實有把本會對於數位平台的執法立場有蠻詳細的說明，基本上目前我們還是會依照那個白皮書的立場，簡單來講就是我們會優化我們本身在數位平台執法的能量，我們會提升同仁對數位平台的了解。另外其實大部分數位平台一些競爭的問題在目前公平法我們過去的分析架構底下其實我們都可以處理，我們要的是讓同仁還有執法的同仁能夠多一點對數位的了解，所以目前……"],["蔡委員易餘：副主委，我想除了對數位的了解以及他們企業跟企業之間的競爭是否公平之外，我覺得最主要的就是……講白了啦，現在的詐騙集團都在用這些數位工具來變成他們行使詐騙的武器，這一些平台最主要就是不作為，它一直放任著，有人一直在那邊投放一些奇奇怪怪的訊息，比方說這個投資理財啊，然後請他們去加入LINE，加入LINE後再去告訴他們說我要投資哪些股票，現在新聞層出不窮啊，都是這種狀況，結果看起來問題就來自於這一些平台，明明有人大量在投放這樣一些錯假訊息也好、一些屬於詐騙的訊息也好，卻不會受到處罰。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：因為這些詐騙的行為基本上本質有高度的刑事不法的特色，所以這裡面……"],["蔡委員易餘：好，副主委，因為我剛剛有聽到說你們涉及到刑事不法你們就拉到法務部去處理，那我現在要問一件事情，如果已經判刑確定，整個司法程序走完，確定這個案件就是利用……我不要講任何一個平台來做為詐騙的手段，有判決確定的案例，是不是要針對這些平台開罰，而且一案一罰？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：因為我們在法律上就是刑事優先原則。"],["蔡委員易餘：當然啊！我說刑事走完啊！我指的是刑事判決確定了，回到了公平會，已經判決確定了，換我要出手了。這些平台你們不作為，已經讓這些犯罪集團把你們當作犯罪工具。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：就我了解，行政罰法的要求是，刑事如果制裁以後，原則上不能夠再有其他行政罰的處罰。"],["蔡委員易餘：那不一樣哦！刑事罰是罰犯罪者，就是詐騙人，我現在指的是你對於平台的不作為，所以這是兩件事好不好？再思考一下。針對已經判決確定的案件，公平會應該有所作為，這樣才能讓這些平台去正視為什麼詐騙集團都要用他們在網路上的優勢來投放這些詐騙訊息，好不好？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：OK，我們回去研議一下，謝謝委員。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝蔡易餘委員。"],["主席（蔡委員易餘）：下一位請羅明才委員、羅明才委員、羅明才委員不在。","王美惠委員、王美惠委員、王美惠委員不在。","請翁曉玲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":168,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-2","speakers":["蔡易餘","邱議瑩","林岱樺","陳亭妃","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","呂玉玲","張嘉郡","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳超明","賴瑞隆","翁曉玲","陳培瑜"],"page_start":121,"meetingDate":["2025-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1142701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請公平交易委員會代理主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142701_00003"}}}