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536.413, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 536.413, \"end\": 536.774, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 536.774, \"end\": 537.374, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 537.374, \"end\": 537.534, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 537.534, \"end\": 537.654, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 537.654, \"end\": 537.795, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 537.795, \"end\": 538.155, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 538.155, \"end\": 538.275, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 538.275, \"end\": 538.535, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 538.535, \"end\": 538.555, \"score\": 0.446}, {\"word\": \"併\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 538.555, \"end\": 538.676, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 538.676, \"end\": 538.856, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"努\", \"start\": 538.856, \"end\": 539.036, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 539.036, \"end\": 539.136, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 539.136, \"end\": 539.156, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 539.156, \"end\": 539.176, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,254 --> 00:00:02,318\n好謝謝主席我們一樣請數位部黃部長請部長\n\n2\n00:00:08,896 --> 00:00:34,733\n委員好來部長好這個部長我還是延續剛剛先講的這個的問題剛剛他講到南韓我給部長更新一下這個新聞就是說今年這個南韓因為的個人資訊保護委員會有發現說臉書Meta在收集了這個使用者的一些宗教信仰政治觀點還有性別議題等等的方面的資料來提供給這個廣告商所以最後裁罰了5億元有這樣的故事存在所以今天講到說\n\n3\n00:00:35,854 --> 00:00:56,892\n我們今天公務機關全面禁止使用Deep-Seek的原因當然是因為說擔心有這個資安疑慮那我想問的是說部長對於現在這種TradeGPT或Deep-Seek這種AI軟體這種AI工具只有Deep-Seek有這種個資或是這種資訊上傳的疑慮嗎其他的這個模型有沒有這相關的風險\n\n4\n00:00:59,261 --> 00:01:14,455\n我還要講說當我們要禁用一個軟體或是一個服務的時候還是要引用法律啦那還是要有法依據那DeepSheet被禁用是因為根據危害國家自動安全產品的一個規範去禁止使用那\n\n5\n00:01:15,296 --> 00:01:37,202\n我們並沒有禁止使用Deep-seek在民間是因為我們在民間目前並沒有法規去讓我們能夠禁止民間使用Deep-seek所以並不是用擱置法去禁止Deep-seek而是用危害國家自身安全產品這樣的規範去禁用Deep-seek那的確Deep-seek確實因為它是中國的產品那它的資料確實有回傳中國而且中國有情報法\n\n6\n00:01:38,382 --> 00:01:57,830\n他的中央機關可以隨時要求DC把資料給他情報給中國的政府來監控所以這個確實有這樣的一個疑慮我們才會去盡曹部長因為剛剛的確你提到說的確DeepStick有這個相關的問題這大家都知道我們也不能否認這個事實但我當然問你第一就是說其他的\n\n7\n00:01:59,279 --> 00:02:19,825\n這個AI模型會不會有相關的疑慮他的數據他一樣後端他的後端這個資料庫裡面會不會有被隨時提取的風險這是第一個問題那第二個問題就是說因為剛剛部長在上一段質詢裡面有提到說你也明確講說中國是現在是我們的敵人嘛好那如果他是我們的敵人如果假設這個認定為真的話那如果\n\n8\n00:02:21,325 --> 00:02:48,405\n他是我們敵人那DeepSeek的相關的資料中共的官方可以隨時提取的話那如果我們只有官方禁止使用民間卻沒有禁止使用那這個邏輯不是有點矛盾嗎因為其實民間的很多資料庫裡面或是我們民間的很多資訊系統裡面都有我們的很多的敏感資訊在還有我們國人的很多的不管是政治立場也好宗教信仰也好各方面的資訊也好這些東西不就也會提供給所謂敵國來判斷來作為情搜的工具嗎\n\n9\n00:02:49,105 --> 00:03:16,953\n那個我還是回答那一點就是說我們要禁用任何的軟體或服務一定要有法可循那目前禁用公家公務機關不能使用DC是根據危害國家自動安全產品這樣一個規範可是那個規範只有規範到公務機關並沒有規範到民間所以我們在民間目前唯一就是說目前我們除非我們能夠證明DC有個資法違法那我們沒辦法禁用它所以我們現在也是在分析跟收集\n\n10\n00:03:17,933 --> 00:03:44,298\n看看DeepSeek是不是有真的違反個資法但目前因為還沒有足夠的證據來證明它違反個資法所以目前並沒有禁止使用DeepSeek好部長還是回到華德山部長你這樣提的我覺得是比較被動的啦因為這是對數位部的期待我想是部長你很清楚我對數位部是非常支持的在這個總預算的時候我也想提醒很多次啦我想我對數位部的支持你們應該不能否認啦所以我們今天要提的是說今天既然有數位部的存在\n\n11\n00:03:45,278 --> 00:04:08,940\n是後續談到說包含現在本來要今天討論所謂AI基本法的問題也是一樣如果今天你是因為有其他的法令來處理Deep-Seek的問題那我今天要請我們其他數位部做的是不管是Deep-Seek也好還是CheckGPT也好還是相關後續會發展出的很多AI模型也好那我們這個母法是什麼我們的基本法是什麼這個時候到底數位部什麼時候才要提出來\n\n12\n00:04:10,112 --> 00:04:34,763\n對我們事實上在去年11月我們就有提一個院的版本那當然就是說這一個我們是希望在這個會期能夠再做一些文字修改那當然也參考各黨團的不同版本我們希望當然是希望在這個會期能夠提出一個AI基本法但是我要特別強調就是說這個基本法有兩個層面一個就是鼓勵AI的創新另外一面是要考慮到人權\n\n13\n00:04:36,003 --> 00:04:57,214\n對考慮到人的這個人權的問題所以這方面怎麼取得balance就大家要再來討論就是說過度的管理會造成AI發展的受限但是不管理又會造成AI的危害所以這個確實是一個是煞車一個是油門到底怎麼去什麼時候踩煞車什麼時候踩油門這個就是最大的問題那這個需要跟跟社會跟各黨團再來提步\n\n14\n00:04:59,335 --> 00:05:25,427\n因為你剛剛也提到一件事情是我們之所以現在沒有禁止民間使用Deep-Seek或是我沒有去禁止比如說TrackGPT或是其他的這個AI模型在官方在公務機關來使用原因是因為沒有相關的法令這是你剛剛講的嘛那這個相關法令一直沒有出來之前現階段我們正在民間正在使用Deep-Seek也好或是我們官方各公務機關可能有些人已經也在使用TrackGPT也好\n\n15\n00:05:26,067 --> 00:05:35,062\n那在這過程裡面在變狀過程裡面我們的這些資訊或是我們的個資或是我們的這個政府的決策是不是他的這個數據就流出去了會不會這個問題\n\n16\n00:05:37,006 --> 00:06:01,798\n我剛也講過就是說原則上像這種所謂的雲端的這個LM的服務我們在這個公務機關的敏感資料應該就是說我們會要求避免使用但就是說這個東西還是一樣就是說在雲端版但是現在就是說這些公司包括Microsoft包括Google他們也知道這個問題所以慢慢開始會提供一個所謂的這個\n\n17\n00:06:04,039 --> 00:06:24,266\n也不是叫這個地板就是說它會有一個叫做沙盒這樣的一個概念就是把資料就放在沙盒裡面而不出去如果這個是可行的話我們會比較trust不過這個還需要再進一步的去驗證不過就是說LOM確實是很多功能是可以用那但是呢我們在公家地方是要特別小心部長對不起因為我們時間不夠剩兩分鐘\n\n18\n00:06:26,227 --> 00:06:55,567\n剛剛你不小心主動提到這幾個跨國大公司他們願意跟這政府可能願意跟你們來這個呃配合或談判嗎可是從我們過去在談詐騙這事情就好了我想數據部也花了很多心力在跟Meta跟Google這些跨國公司在進行相關的談判到今年只能相對有成效那回到這個AI基本法的問題就好如果回到AI基本法的問題如果我們的數據資料全部也是掌握在這種跨國公司手上或者是像現在新的這CheckGP手上的話\n\n19\n00:06:56,267 --> 00:07:19,326\n那你蘇衛部的立場是什麼那另外還有就是說剛剛提到了要分等級因為我想歐盟你很清楚歐盟已經有分出來有一個所謂基本法出來了歐盟有分四個等級那我們台灣在這個AI基本法上面我們參考的版本是以歐盟為主呢還是像南韓為主還是怎麼樣還是會有怎麼樣版本出來我們現在是同時參考美日英還有歐盟的那就是說\n\n20\n00:07:20,467 --> 00:07:43,430\n歐盟主要是以管理為主那美日英主要是以產業推動為主那怎麼取得balance就是我們現在在跟各界溝通那我是希望出來一個版本是同時能夠鼓勵AI的創新但是同時又能夠在適當的地方踩煞車不要影響到人權或者是公平性透明性或者是自然各方面的問題所以這個\n\n21\n00:07:44,911 --> 00:07:59,362\n這個的確是一個比較複雜的工作那這個也需要再跟各個社會去溝通不過同時我們也希望說很快的在這個會期能夠提出一個版本讓大家能夠通過然後能夠在AI的規範上至少有\n\n22\n00:08:00,163 --> 00:08:26,818\n有可以依循那避免一些可能造成的危害我想發展當然是發展很快啦因為現在大家我覺得對於民意代表對多數民眾來講大家擔心的反而是監管的部分尤其是個資的部分還有像比如說針對那大家都會想像幻想或想像說未來AI可能取代一些人類的工作或人類的思想的問題這部分是歐盟訂的規範比較嚴格那我要問的是說我們數位部未來在這個相關法令上面在討論的過程裡面\n\n23\n00:08:28,940 --> 00:08:45,722\n會在這種最高層次的監管部分是依歐盟的標準還是依其他國還是依美國的標準我們希望是就是說用台灣的現況用台灣的標準那這個就是我們需要再跟社會再溝通我不希望定出一個AI基本法是讓大家覺得自然難行然後只是為了慣例\n\n24\n00:08:46,423 --> 00:08:59,176\n不過就是這個東西還需要再溝通同時希望能夠促進產業那同時又能夠不要做一些可能AI產生的危害包括歧視偏見或者是治安或正確性透明性的問題都要一併處理這個我們會努力好部長謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n254\t2318\t好 謝謝主席 我們一樣請數位部黃部長請部長\n8896\t34733\t委員好來 部長好這個部長我還是延續剛剛先講的這個的問題剛剛他講到南韓我給部長更新一下這個新聞就是說今年這個南韓因為的個人資訊保護委員會有發現說臉書Meta在收集了這個使用者的一些宗教信仰政治觀點還有性別議題等等的方面的資料來提供給這個廣告商所以最後裁罰了5億元有這樣的故事存在所以今天講到說\n35854\t56892\t我們今天公務機關全面禁止使用Deep-Seek的原因當然是因為說擔心有這個資安疑慮那我想問的是說部長對於現在這種TradeGPT或Deep-Seek這種AI軟體這種AI工具只有Deep-Seek有這種個資或是這種資訊上傳的疑慮嗎其他的這個模型有沒有這相關的風險\n59261\t74455\t我還要講說當我們要禁用一個軟體或是一個服務的時候還是要引用法律啦那還是要有法依據那Deep Sheet被禁用是因為根據危害國家自動安全產品的一個規範去禁止使用那\n75296\t97202\t我們並沒有禁止使用Deep-seek在民間是因為我們在民間目前並沒有法規去讓我們能夠禁止民間使用Deep-seek所以並不是用擱置法去禁止Deep-seek而是用危害國家自身安全產品這樣的規範去禁用Deep-seek那的確Deep-seek確實因為它是中國的產品那它的資料確實有回傳中國而且中國有情報法\n98382\t117830\t他的中央機關可以隨時要求DC把資料給他情報給中國的政府來監控所以這個確實有這樣的一個疑慮我們才會去盡曹部長因為剛剛的確你提到說的確DeepStick有這個相關的問題這大家都知道我們也不能否認這個事實但我當然問你第一就是說其他的\n119279\t139825\t這個AI模型會不會有相關的疑慮他的數據他一樣後端他的後端這個資料庫裡面會不會有被隨時提取的風險這是第一個問題那第二個問題就是說因為剛剛部長在上一段質詢裡面有提到說你也明確講說中國是現在是我們的敵人嘛好那如果他是我們的敵人如果假設這個認定為真的話那如果\n141325\t168405\t他是我們敵人那Deep Seek的相關的資料中共的官方可以隨時提取的話那如果我們只有官方禁止使用民間卻沒有禁止使用那這個邏輯不是有點矛盾嗎因為其實民間的很多資料庫裡面或是我們民間的很多資訊系統裡面都有我們的很多的敏感資訊在還有我們國人的很多的不管是政治立場也好 宗教信仰也好各方面的資訊也好這些東西不就也會提供給所謂敵國來判斷來作為情搜的工具嗎\n169105\t196953\t那個我還是回答那一點就是說我們要禁用任何的軟體或服務一定要有法可循那目前禁用公家公務機關不能使用DC是根據危害國家自動安全產品這樣一個規範可是那個規範只有規範到公務機關並沒有規範到民間所以我們在民間目前唯一就是說目前我們除非我們能夠證明DC有個資法違法那我們沒辦法禁用它所以我們現在也是在分析跟收集\n197933\t224298\t看看Deep Seek是不是有真的違反個資法但目前因為還沒有足夠的證據來證明它違反個資法所以目前並沒有禁止使用Deep Seek好 部長還是回到華德山部長你這樣提的我覺得是比較被動的啦因為這是對數位部的期待我想是部長你很清楚我對數位部是非常支持的在這個總預算的時候我也想提醒很多次啦我想我對數位部的支持你們應該不能否認啦所以我們今天要提的是說今天既然有數位部的存在\n225278\t248940\t是後續談到說包含現在本來要今天討論所謂AI基本法的問題也是一樣如果今天你是因為有其他的法令來處理Deep-Seek的問題那我今天要請我們其他數位部做的是不管是Deep-Seek也好還是CheckGPT也好還是相關後續會發展出的很多AI模型也好那我們這個母法是什麼我們的基本法是什麼這個時候到底數位部什麼時候才要提出來\n250112\t274763\t對我們事實上在去年11月我們就有提一個院的版本那當然就是說這一個我們是希望在這個會期能夠再做一些文字修改那當然也參考各黨團的不同版本我們希望當然是希望在這個會期能夠提出一個AI基本法但是我要特別強調就是說這個基本法有兩個層面一個就是鼓勵AI的創新另外一面是要考慮到人權\n276003\t297214\t對考慮到人的這個人權的問題所以這方面怎麼取得balance就大家要再來討論就是說過度的管理會造成AI發展的受限但是不管理又會造成AI的危害所以這個確實是一個是煞車一個是油門到底怎麼去什麼時候踩煞車什麼時候踩油門這個就是最大的問題那這個需要跟跟社會跟各黨團再來提步\n299335\t325427\t因為你剛剛也提到一件事情是我們之所以現在沒有禁止民間使用Deep-Seek或是我沒有去禁止比如說TrackGPT或是其他的這個AI模型在官方在公務機關來使用原因是因為沒有相關的法令這是你剛剛講的嘛那這個相關法令一直沒有出來之前現階段我們正在民間正在使用Deep-Seek也好或是我們官方各公務機關可能有些人已經也在使用TrackGPT也好\n326067\t335062\t那在這過程裡面在變狀過程裡面我們的這些資訊或是我們的個資或是我們的這個政府的決策是不是他的這個數據就流出去了會不會這個問題\n337006\t361798\t我剛也講過就是說原則上像這種所謂的雲端的這個LM的服務我們在這個公務機關的敏感資料應該就是說我們會要求避免使用但就是說這個東西還是一樣就是說在雲端版但是現在就是說這些公司包括Microsoft包括Google他們也知道這個問題所以慢慢開始會提供一個所謂的這個\n364039\t384266\t也不是叫這個地板就是說它會有一個叫做沙盒這樣的一個概念就是把資料就放在沙盒裡面而不出去如果這個是可行的話我們會比較trust不過這個還需要再進一步的去驗證不過就是說LOM確實是很多功能是可以用那但是呢我們在公家地方是要特別小心部長對不起因為我們時間不夠剩兩分鐘\n386227\t415567\t剛剛你不小心主動提到這幾個跨國大公司他們願意跟這政府可能願意跟你們來這個呃配合或談判嗎可是從我們過去在談詐騙這事情就好了我想數據部也花了很多心力在跟Meta跟Google這些跨國公司在進行相關的談判到今年只能相對有成效那回到這個AI基本法的問題就好如果回到AI基本法的問題如果我們的數據資料全部也是掌握在這種跨國公司手上或者是像現在新的這CheckGP手上的話\n416267\t439326\t那你蘇衛部的立場是什麼那另外還有就是說剛剛提到了要分等級因為我想歐盟你很清楚歐盟已經有分出來有一個所謂基本法出來了歐盟有分四個等級那我們台灣在這個AI基本法上面我們參考的版本是以歐盟為主呢還是像南韓為主還是怎麼樣還是會有怎麼樣版本出來我們現在是同時參考美日英還有歐盟的那就是說\n440467\t463430\t歐盟主要是以管理為主那美日英主要是以產業推動為主那怎麼取得balance就是我們現在在跟各界溝通那我是希望出來一個版本是同時能夠鼓勵AI的創新但是同時又能夠在適當的地方踩煞車不要影響到人權或者是公平性透明性或者是自然各方面的問題所以這個\n464911\t479362\t這個的確是一個比較複雜的工作那這個也需要再跟各個社會去溝通不過同時我們也希望說很快的在這個會期能夠提出一個版本讓大家能夠通過然後能夠在AI的規範上至少有\n480163\t506818\t有可以依循那避免一些可能造成的危害我想發展當然是發展很快啦因為現在大家我覺得對於民意代表對多數民眾來講大家擔心的反而是監管的部分尤其是個資的部分還有像比如說針對那大家都會想像幻想或想像說未來AI可能取代一些人類的工作或人類的思想的問題這部分是歐盟訂的規範比較嚴格那我要問的是說我們數位部未來在這個相關法令上面在討論的過程裡面\n508940\t525722\t會在這種最高層次的監管部分是依歐盟的標準還是依其他國還是依美國的標準我們希望是就是說用台灣的現況用台灣的標準那這個就是我們需要再跟社會再溝通我不希望定出一個AI基本法是讓大家覺得自然難行然後只是為了慣例\n526423\t539176\t不過就是這個東西還需要再溝通同時希望能夠促進產業那同時又能夠不要做一些可能AI產生的危害包括歧視偏見或者是治安或正確性透明性的問題都要一併處理這個我們會努力好 部長謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 我們一樣請數位部黃部長請部長\n委員好來 部長好這個部長我還是延續剛剛先講的這個的問題剛剛他講到南韓我給部長更新一下這個新聞就是說今年這個南韓因為的個人資訊保護委員會有發現說臉書Meta在收集了這個使用者的一些宗教信仰政治觀點還有性別議題等等的方面的資料來提供給這個廣告商所以最後裁罰了5億元有這樣的故事存在所以今天講到說\n我們今天公務機關全面禁止使用Deep-Seek的原因當然是因為說擔心有這個資安疑慮那我想問的是說部長對於現在這種TradeGPT或Deep-Seek這種AI軟體這種AI工具只有Deep-Seek有這種個資或是這種資訊上傳的疑慮嗎其他的這個模型有沒有這相關的風險\n我還要講說當我們要禁用一個軟體或是一個服務的時候還是要引用法律啦那還是要有法依據那Deep Sheet被禁用是因為根據危害國家自動安全產品的一個規範去禁止使用那\n我們並沒有禁止使用Deep-seek在民間是因為我們在民間目前並沒有法規去讓我們能夠禁止民間使用Deep-seek所以並不是用擱置法去禁止Deep-seek而是用危害國家自身安全產品這樣的規範去禁用Deep-seek那的確Deep-seek確實因為它是中國的產品那它的資料確實有回傳中國而且中國有情報法\n他的中央機關可以隨時要求DC把資料給他情報給中國的政府來監控所以這個確實有這樣的一個疑慮我們才會去盡曹部長因為剛剛的確你提到說的確DeepStick有這個相關的問題這大家都知道我們也不能否認這個事實但我當然問你第一就是說其他的\n這個AI模型會不會有相關的疑慮他的數據他一樣後端他的後端這個資料庫裡面會不會有被隨時提取的風險這是第一個問題那第二個問題就是說因為剛剛部長在上一段質詢裡面有提到說你也明確講說中國是現在是我們的敵人嘛好那如果他是我們的敵人如果假設這個認定為真的話那如果\n他是我們敵人那Deep Seek的相關的資料中共的官方可以隨時提取的話那如果我們只有官方禁止使用民間卻沒有禁止使用那這個邏輯不是有點矛盾嗎因為其實民間的很多資料庫裡面或是我們民間的很多資訊系統裡面都有我們的很多的敏感資訊在還有我們國人的很多的不管是政治立場也好 宗教信仰也好各方面的資訊也好這些東西不就也會提供給所謂敵國來判斷來作為情搜的工具嗎\n那個我還是回答那一點就是說我們要禁用任何的軟體或服務一定要有法可循那目前禁用公家公務機關不能使用DC是根據危害國家自動安全產品這樣一個規範可是那個規範只有規範到公務機關並沒有規範到民間所以我們在民間目前唯一就是說目前我們除非我們能夠證明DC有個資法違法那我們沒辦法禁用它所以我們現在也是在分析跟收集\n看看Deep Seek是不是有真的違反個資法但目前因為還沒有足夠的證據來證明它違反個資法所以目前並沒有禁止使用Deep Seek好 部長還是回到華德山部長你這樣提的我覺得是比較被動的啦因為這是對數位部的期待我想是部長你很清楚我對數位部是非常支持的在這個總預算的時候我也想提醒很多次啦我想我對數位部的支持你們應該不能否認啦所以我們今天要提的是說今天既然有數位部的存在\n是後續談到說包含現在本來要今天討論所謂AI基本法的問題也是一樣如果今天你是因為有其他的法令來處理Deep-Seek的問題那我今天要請我們其他數位部做的是不管是Deep-Seek也好還是CheckGPT也好還是相關後續會發展出的很多AI模型也好那我們這個母法是什麼我們的基本法是什麼這個時候到底數位部什麼時候才要提出來\n對我們事實上在去年11月我們就有提一個院的版本那當然就是說這一個我們是希望在這個會期能夠再做一些文字修改那當然也參考各黨團的不同版本我們希望當然是希望在這個會期能夠提出一個AI基本法但是我要特別強調就是說這個基本法有兩個層面一個就是鼓勵AI的創新另外一面是要考慮到人權\n對考慮到人的這個人權的問題所以這方面怎麼取得balance就大家要再來討論就是說過度的管理會造成AI發展的受限但是不管理又會造成AI的危害所以這個確實是一個是煞車一個是油門到底怎麼去什麼時候踩煞車什麼時候踩油門這個就是最大的問題那這個需要跟跟社會跟各黨團再來提步\n因為你剛剛也提到一件事情是我們之所以現在沒有禁止民間使用Deep-Seek或是我沒有去禁止比如說TrackGPT或是其他的這個AI模型在官方在公務機關來使用原因是因為沒有相關的法令這是你剛剛講的嘛那這個相關法令一直沒有出來之前現階段我們正在民間正在使用Deep-Seek也好或是我們官方各公務機關可能有些人已經也在使用TrackGPT也好\n那在這過程裡面在變狀過程裡面我們的這些資訊或是我們的個資或是我們的這個政府的決策是不是他的這個數據就流出去了會不會這個問題\n我剛也講過就是說原則上像這種所謂的雲端的這個LM的服務我們在這個公務機關的敏感資料應該就是說我們會要求避免使用但就是說這個東西還是一樣就是說在雲端版但是現在就是說這些公司包括Microsoft包括Google他們也知道這個問題所以慢慢開始會提供一個所謂的這個\n也不是叫這個地板就是說它會有一個叫做沙盒這樣的一個概念就是把資料就放在沙盒裡面而不出去如果這個是可行的話我們會比較trust不過這個還需要再進一步的去驗證不過就是說LOM確實是很多功能是可以用那但是呢我們在公家地方是要特別小心部長對不起因為我們時間不夠剩兩分鐘\n剛剛你不小心主動提到這幾個跨國大公司他們願意跟這政府可能願意跟你們來這個呃配合或談判嗎可是從我們過去在談詐騙這事情就好了我想數據部也花了很多心力在跟Meta跟Google這些跨國公司在進行相關的談判到今年只能相對有成效那回到這個AI基本法的問題就好如果回到AI基本法的問題如果我們的數據資料全部也是掌握在這種跨國公司手上或者是像現在新的這CheckGP手上的話\n那你蘇衛部的立場是什麼那另外還有就是說剛剛提到了要分等級因為我想歐盟你很清楚歐盟已經有分出來有一個所謂基本法出來了歐盟有分四個等級那我們台灣在這個AI基本法上面我們參考的版本是以歐盟為主呢還是像南韓為主還是怎麼樣還是會有怎麼樣版本出來我們現在是同時參考美日英還有歐盟的那就是說\n歐盟主要是以管理為主那美日英主要是以產業推動為主那怎麼取得balance就是我們現在在跟各界溝通那我是希望出來一個版本是同時能夠鼓勵AI的創新但是同時又能夠在適當的地方踩煞車不要影響到人權或者是公平性透明性或者是自然各方面的問題所以這個\n這個的確是一個比較複雜的工作那這個也需要再跟各個社會去溝通不過同時我們也希望說很快的在這個會期能夠提出一個版本讓大家能夠通過然後能夠在AI的規範上至少有\n有可以依循那避免一些可能造成的危害我想發展當然是發展很快啦因為現在大家我覺得對於民意代表對多數民眾來講大家擔心的反而是監管的部分尤其是個資的部分還有像比如說針對那大家都會想像幻想或想像說未來AI可能取代一些人類的工作或人類的思想的問題這部分是歐盟訂的規範比較嚴格那我要問的是說我們數位部未來在這個相關法令上面在討論的過程裡面\n會在這種最高層次的監管部分是依歐盟的標準還是依其他國還是依美國的標準我們希望是就是說用台灣的現況用台灣的標準那這個就是我們需要再跟社會再溝通我不希望定出一個AI基本法是讓大家覺得自然難行然後只是為了慣例\n不過就是這個東西還需要再溝通同時希望能夠促進產業那同時又能夠不要做一些可能AI產生的危害包括歧視偏見或者是治安或正確性透明性的問題都要一併處理這個我們會努力好 部長謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.254 --> 00:02.318\n好謝謝主席我們一樣請數位部黃部長請部長\n\n00:08.896 --> 00:34.733\n委員好來部長好這個部長我還是延續剛剛先講的這個的問題剛剛他講到南韓我給部長更新一下這個新聞就是說今年這個南韓因為的個人資訊保護委員會有發現說臉書Meta在收集了這個使用者的一些宗教信仰政治觀點還有性別議題等等的方面的資料來提供給這個廣告商所以最後裁罰了5億元有這樣的故事存在所以今天講到說\n\n00:35.854 --> 00:56.892\n我們今天公務機關全面禁止使用Deep-Seek的原因當然是因為說擔心有這個資安疑慮那我想問的是說部長對於現在這種TradeGPT或Deep-Seek這種AI軟體這種AI工具只有Deep-Seek有這種個資或是這種資訊上傳的疑慮嗎其他的這個模型有沒有這相關的風險\n\n00:59.261 --> 01:14.455\n我還要講說當我們要禁用一個軟體或是一個服務的時候還是要引用法律啦那還是要有法依據那DeepSheet被禁用是因為根據危害國家自動安全產品的一個規範去禁止使用那\n\n01:15.296 --> 01:37.202\n我們並沒有禁止使用Deep-seek在民間是因為我們在民間目前並沒有法規去讓我們能夠禁止民間使用Deep-seek所以並不是用擱置法去禁止Deep-seek而是用危害國家自身安全產品這樣的規範去禁用Deep-seek那的確Deep-seek確實因為它是中國的產品那它的資料確實有回傳中國而且中國有情報法\n\n01:38.382 --> 01:57.830\n他的中央機關可以隨時要求DC把資料給他情報給中國的政府來監控所以這個確實有這樣的一個疑慮我們才會去盡曹部長因為剛剛的確你提到說的確DeepStick有這個相關的問題這大家都知道我們也不能否認這個事實但我當然問你第一就是說其他的\n\n01:59.279 --> 02:19.825\n這個AI模型會不會有相關的疑慮他的數據他一樣後端他的後端這個資料庫裡面會不會有被隨時提取的風險這是第一個問題那第二個問題就是說因為剛剛部長在上一段質詢裡面有提到說你也明確講說中國是現在是我們的敵人嘛好那如果他是我們的敵人如果假設這個認定為真的話那如果\n\n02:21.325 --> 02:48.405\n他是我們敵人那DeepSeek的相關的資料中共的官方可以隨時提取的話那如果我們只有官方禁止使用民間卻沒有禁止使用那這個邏輯不是有點矛盾嗎因為其實民間的很多資料庫裡面或是我們民間的很多資訊系統裡面都有我們的很多的敏感資訊在還有我們國人的很多的不管是政治立場也好宗教信仰也好各方面的資訊也好這些東西不就也會提供給所謂敵國來判斷來作為情搜的工具嗎\n\n02:49.105 --> 03:16.953\n那個我還是回答那一點就是說我們要禁用任何的軟體或服務一定要有法可循那目前禁用公家公務機關不能使用DC是根據危害國家自動安全產品這樣一個規範可是那個規範只有規範到公務機關並沒有規範到民間所以我們在民間目前唯一就是說目前我們除非我們能夠證明DC有個資法違法那我們沒辦法禁用它所以我們現在也是在分析跟收集\n\n03:17.933 --> 03:44.298\n看看DeepSeek是不是有真的違反個資法但目前因為還沒有足夠的證據來證明它違反個資法所以目前並沒有禁止使用DeepSeek好部長還是回到華德山部長你這樣提的我覺得是比較被動的啦因為這是對數位部的期待我想是部長你很清楚我對數位部是非常支持的在這個總預算的時候我也想提醒很多次啦我想我對數位部的支持你們應該不能否認啦所以我們今天要提的是說今天既然有數位部的存在\n\n03:45.278 --> 04:08.940\n是後續談到說包含現在本來要今天討論所謂AI基本法的問題也是一樣如果今天你是因為有其他的法令來處理Deep-Seek的問題那我今天要請我們其他數位部做的是不管是Deep-Seek也好還是CheckGPT也好還是相關後續會發展出的很多AI模型也好那我們這個母法是什麼我們的基本法是什麼這個時候到底數位部什麼時候才要提出來\n\n04:10.112 --> 04:34.763\n對我們事實上在去年11月我們就有提一個院的版本那當然就是說這一個我們是希望在這個會期能夠再做一些文字修改那當然也參考各黨團的不同版本我們希望當然是希望在這個會期能夠提出一個AI基本法但是我要特別強調就是說這個基本法有兩個層面一個就是鼓勵AI的創新另外一面是要考慮到人權\n\n04:36.003 --> 04:57.214\n對考慮到人的這個人權的問題所以這方面怎麼取得balance就大家要再來討論就是說過度的管理會造成AI發展的受限但是不管理又會造成AI的危害所以這個確實是一個是煞車一個是油門到底怎麼去什麼時候踩煞車什麼時候踩油門這個就是最大的問題那這個需要跟跟社會跟各黨團再來提步\n\n04:59.335 --> 05:25.427\n因為你剛剛也提到一件事情是我們之所以現在沒有禁止民間使用Deep-Seek或是我沒有去禁止比如說TrackGPT或是其他的這個AI模型在官方在公務機關來使用原因是因為沒有相關的法令這是你剛剛講的嘛那這個相關法令一直沒有出來之前現階段我們正在民間正在使用Deep-Seek也好或是我們官方各公務機關可能有些人已經也在使用TrackGPT也好\n\n05:26.067 --> 05:35.062\n那在這過程裡面在變狀過程裡面我們的這些資訊或是我們的個資或是我們的這個政府的決策是不是他的這個數據就流出去了會不會這個問題\n\n05:37.006 --> 06:01.798\n我剛也講過就是說原則上像這種所謂的雲端的這個LM的服務我們在這個公務機關的敏感資料應該就是說我們會要求避免使用但就是說這個東西還是一樣就是說在雲端版但是現在就是說這些公司包括Microsoft包括Google他們也知道這個問題所以慢慢開始會提供一個所謂的這個\n\n06:04.039 --> 06:24.266\n也不是叫這個地板就是說它會有一個叫做沙盒這樣的一個概念就是把資料就放在沙盒裡面而不出去如果這個是可行的話我們會比較trust不過這個還需要再進一步的去驗證不過就是說LOM確實是很多功能是可以用那但是呢我們在公家地方是要特別小心部長對不起因為我們時間不夠剩兩分鐘\n\n06:26.227 --> 06:55.567\n剛剛你不小心主動提到這幾個跨國大公司他們願意跟這政府可能願意跟你們來這個呃配合或談判嗎可是從我們過去在談詐騙這事情就好了我想數據部也花了很多心力在跟Meta跟Google這些跨國公司在進行相關的談判到今年只能相對有成效那回到這個AI基本法的問題就好如果回到AI基本法的問題如果我們的數據資料全部也是掌握在這種跨國公司手上或者是像現在新的這CheckGP手上的話\n\n06:56.267 --> 07:19.326\n那你蘇衛部的立場是什麼那另外還有就是說剛剛提到了要分等級因為我想歐盟你很清楚歐盟已經有分出來有一個所謂基本法出來了歐盟有分四個等級那我們台灣在這個AI基本法上面我們參考的版本是以歐盟為主呢還是像南韓為主還是怎麼樣還是會有怎麼樣版本出來我們現在是同時參考美日英還有歐盟的那就是說\n\n07:20.467 --> 07:43.430\n歐盟主要是以管理為主那美日英主要是以產業推動為主那怎麼取得balance就是我們現在在跟各界溝通那我是希望出來一個版本是同時能夠鼓勵AI的創新但是同時又能夠在適當的地方踩煞車不要影響到人權或者是公平性透明性或者是自然各方面的問題所以這個\n\n07:44.911 --> 07:59.362\n這個的確是一個比較複雜的工作那這個也需要再跟各個社會去溝通不過同時我們也希望說很快的在這個會期能夠提出一個版本讓大家能夠通過然後能夠在AI的規範上至少有\n\n08:00.163 --> 08:26.818\n有可以依循那避免一些可能造成的危害我想發展當然是發展很快啦因為現在大家我覺得對於民意代表對多數民眾來講大家擔心的反而是監管的部分尤其是個資的部分還有像比如說針對那大家都會想像幻想或想像說未來AI可能取代一些人類的工作或人類的思想的問題這部分是歐盟訂的規範比較嚴格那我要問的是說我們數位部未來在這個相關法令上面在討論的過程裡面\n\n08:28.940 --> 08:45.722\n會在這種最高層次的監管部分是依歐盟的標準還是依其他國還是依美國的標準我們希望是就是說用台灣的現況用台灣的標準那這個就是我們需要再跟社會再溝通我不希望定出一個AI基本法是讓大家覺得自然難行然後只是為了慣例\n\n08:46.423 --> 08:59.176\n不過就是這個東西還需要再溝通同時希望能夠促進產業那同時又能夠不要做一些可能AI產生的危害包括歧視偏見或者是治安或正確性透明性的問題都要一併處理這個我們會努力好部長謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.254,"end":2.318,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們一樣請數位部黃部長請部長"},{"start":8.896,"end":34.733,"text":"委員好來 部長好這個部長我還是延續剛剛先講的這個的問題剛剛他講到南韓我給部長更新一下這個新聞就是說今年這個南韓因為的個人資訊保護委員會有發現說臉書Meta在收集了這個使用者的一些宗教信仰政治觀點還有性別議題等等的方面的資料來提供給這個廣告商所以最後裁罰了5億元有這樣的故事存在所以今天講到說"},{"start":35.854,"end":56.892,"text":"我們今天公務機關全面禁止使用Deep-Seek的原因當然是因為說擔心有這個資安疑慮那我想問的是說部長對於現在這種TradeGPT或Deep-Seek這種AI軟體這種AI工具只有Deep-Seek有這種個資或是這種資訊上傳的疑慮嗎其他的這個模型有沒有這相關的風險"},{"start":59.261,"end":74.455,"text":"我還要講說當我們要禁用一個軟體或是一個服務的時候還是要引用法律啦那還是要有法依據那Deep Sheet被禁用是因為根據危害國家自動安全產品的一個規範去禁止使用那"},{"start":75.296,"end":97.202,"text":"我們並沒有禁止使用Deep-seek在民間是因為我們在民間目前並沒有法規去讓我們能夠禁止民間使用Deep-seek所以並不是用擱置法去禁止Deep-seek而是用危害國家自身安全產品這樣的規範去禁用Deep-seek那的確Deep-seek確實因為它是中國的產品那它的資料確實有回傳中國而且中國有情報法"},{"start":98.382,"end":117.83,"text":"他的中央機關可以隨時要求DC把資料給他情報給中國的政府來監控所以這個確實有這樣的一個疑慮我們才會去盡曹部長因為剛剛的確你提到說的確DeepStick有這個相關的問題這大家都知道我們也不能否認這個事實但我當然問你第一就是說其他的"},{"start":119.279,"end":139.825,"text":"這個AI模型會不會有相關的疑慮他的數據他一樣後端他的後端這個資料庫裡面會不會有被隨時提取的風險這是第一個問題那第二個問題就是說因為剛剛部長在上一段質詢裡面有提到說你也明確講說中國是現在是我們的敵人嘛好那如果他是我們的敵人如果假設這個認定為真的話那如果"},{"start":141.325,"end":168.405,"text":"他是我們敵人那Deep Seek的相關的資料中共的官方可以隨時提取的話那如果我們只有官方禁止使用民間卻沒有禁止使用那這個邏輯不是有點矛盾嗎因為其實民間的很多資料庫裡面或是我們民間的很多資訊系統裡面都有我們的很多的敏感資訊在還有我們國人的很多的不管是政治立場也好 宗教信仰也好各方面的資訊也好這些東西不就也會提供給所謂敵國來判斷來作為情搜的工具嗎"},{"start":169.105,"end":196.953,"text":"那個我還是回答那一點就是說我們要禁用任何的軟體或服務一定要有法可循那目前禁用公家公務機關不能使用DC是根據危害國家自動安全產品這樣一個規範可是那個規範只有規範到公務機關並沒有規範到民間所以我們在民間目前唯一就是說目前我們除非我們能夠證明DC有個資法違法那我們沒辦法禁用它所以我們現在也是在分析跟收集"},{"start":197.933,"end":224.298,"text":"看看Deep Seek是不是有真的違反個資法但目前因為還沒有足夠的證據來證明它違反個資法所以目前並沒有禁止使用Deep Seek好 部長還是回到華德山部長你這樣提的我覺得是比較被動的啦因為這是對數位部的期待我想是部長你很清楚我對數位部是非常支持的在這個總預算的時候我也想提醒很多次啦我想我對數位部的支持你們應該不能否認啦所以我們今天要提的是說今天既然有數位部的存在"},{"start":225.278,"end":248.94,"text":"是後續談到說包含現在本來要今天討論所謂AI基本法的問題也是一樣如果今天你是因為有其他的法令來處理Deep-Seek的問題那我今天要請我們其他數位部做的是不管是Deep-Seek也好還是CheckGPT也好還是相關後續會發展出的很多AI模型也好那我們這個母法是什麼我們的基本法是什麼這個時候到底數位部什麼時候才要提出來"},{"start":250.112,"end":274.763,"text":"對我們事實上在去年11月我們就有提一個院的版本那當然就是說這一個我們是希望在這個會期能夠再做一些文字修改那當然也參考各黨團的不同版本我們希望當然是希望在這個會期能夠提出一個AI基本法但是我要特別強調就是說這個基本法有兩個層面一個就是鼓勵AI的創新另外一面是要考慮到人權"},{"start":276.003,"end":297.214,"text":"對考慮到人的這個人權的問題所以這方面怎麼取得balance就大家要再來討論就是說過度的管理會造成AI發展的受限但是不管理又會造成AI的危害所以這個確實是一個是煞車一個是油門到底怎麼去什麼時候踩煞車什麼時候踩油門這個就是最大的問題那這個需要跟跟社會跟各黨團再來提步"},{"start":299.335,"end":325.427,"text":"因為你剛剛也提到一件事情是我們之所以現在沒有禁止民間使用Deep-Seek或是我沒有去禁止比如說TrackGPT或是其他的這個AI模型在官方在公務機關來使用原因是因為沒有相關的法令這是你剛剛講的嘛那這個相關法令一直沒有出來之前現階段我們正在民間正在使用Deep-Seek也好或是我們官方各公務機關可能有些人已經也在使用TrackGPT也好"},{"start":326.067,"end":335.062,"text":"那在這過程裡面在變狀過程裡面我們的這些資訊或是我們的個資或是我們的這個政府的決策是不是他的這個數據就流出去了會不會這個問題"},{"start":337.006,"end":361.798,"text":"我剛也講過就是說原則上像這種所謂的雲端的這個LM的服務我們在這個公務機關的敏感資料應該就是說我們會要求避免使用但就是說這個東西還是一樣就是說在雲端版但是現在就是說這些公司包括Microsoft包括Google他們也知道這個問題所以慢慢開始會提供一個所謂的這個"},{"start":364.039,"end":384.266,"text":"也不是叫這個地板就是說它會有一個叫做沙盒這樣的一個概念就是把資料就放在沙盒裡面而不出去如果這個是可行的話我們會比較trust不過這個還需要再進一步的去驗證不過就是說LOM確實是很多功能是可以用那但是呢我們在公家地方是要特別小心部長對不起因為我們時間不夠剩兩分鐘"},{"start":386.227,"end":415.567,"text":"剛剛你不小心主動提到這幾個跨國大公司他們願意跟這政府可能願意跟你們來這個呃配合或談判嗎可是從我們過去在談詐騙這事情就好了我想數據部也花了很多心力在跟Meta跟Google這些跨國公司在進行相關的談判到今年只能相對有成效那回到這個AI基本法的問題就好如果回到AI基本法的問題如果我們的數據資料全部也是掌握在這種跨國公司手上或者是像現在新的這CheckGP手上的話"},{"start":416.267,"end":439.326,"text":"那你蘇衛部的立場是什麼那另外還有就是說剛剛提到了要分等級因為我想歐盟你很清楚歐盟已經有分出來有一個所謂基本法出來了歐盟有分四個等級那我們台灣在這個AI基本法上面我們參考的版本是以歐盟為主呢還是像南韓為主還是怎麼樣還是會有怎麼樣版本出來我們現在是同時參考美日英還有歐盟的那就是說"},{"start":440.467,"end":463.43,"text":"歐盟主要是以管理為主那美日英主要是以產業推動為主那怎麼取得balance就是我們現在在跟各界溝通那我是希望出來一個版本是同時能夠鼓勵AI的創新但是同時又能夠在適當的地方踩煞車不要影響到人權或者是公平性透明性或者是自然各方面的問題所以這個"},{"start":464.911,"end":479.362,"text":"這個的確是一個比較複雜的工作那這個也需要再跟各個社會去溝通不過同時我們也希望說很快的在這個會期能夠提出一個版本讓大家能夠通過然後能夠在AI的規範上至少有"},{"start":480.163,"end":506.818,"text":"有可以依循那避免一些可能造成的危害我想發展當然是發展很快啦因為現在大家我覺得對於民意代表對多數民眾來講大家擔心的反而是監管的部分尤其是個資的部分還有像比如說針對那大家都會想像幻想或想像說未來AI可能取代一些人類的工作或人類的思想的問題這部分是歐盟訂的規範比較嚴格那我要問的是說我們數位部未來在這個相關法令上面在討論的過程裡面"},{"start":508.94,"end":525.722,"text":"會在這種最高層次的監管部分是依歐盟的標準還是依其他國還是依美國的標準我們希望是就是說用台灣的現況用台灣的標準那這個就是我們需要再跟社會再溝通我不希望定出一個AI基本法是讓大家覺得自然難行然後只是為了慣例"},{"start":526.423,"end":539.176,"text":"不過就是這個東西還需要再溝通同時希望能夠促進產業那同時又能夠不要做一些可能AI產生的危害包括歧視偏見或者是治安或正確性透明性的問題都要一併處理這個我們會努力好 部長謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":558,"blocks":[["黃委員健豪：（11時51分）謝謝主席。我們一樣請數位部黃部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["黃委員健豪：部長好。這部分我還是延續剛剛先翔的問題，剛剛他講到南韓，我給部長更新一下新聞，今年南韓的個人資訊保護委員會有發現說臉書Meta在蒐集使用者的宗教信仰、政治觀點還有性別議題等等方面的資料，來提供給廣告商，所以最後裁罰了5億元，有這樣的故事存在。所以講到我們今天公務機關全面禁止使用DeepSeek的原因當然是擔心有資安疑慮，那我們想問的是說，部長，對於ChatGPT、DeepSeek這種AI工具，只有DeepSeek有這種個資或資訊上傳的疑慮嗎？其它的模型有沒有相關的風險？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我還是要講說當要禁用一個軟體或是一個服務的時候，還是要引用法律，要有法依據。DeepSeek被禁用是因為根據危害國家資通安全產品的規範去禁止使用，我們並沒有禁止DeepSeek在民間使用，是因為我們沒有法規去讓我們禁止民間使用DeepSeek，所以並不是用個資法去禁止DeepSeek，而是用危害國家資通安全產品這樣的規範去禁用DeepSeek。那DeepSeek確實是中國的產品，它資料確實有回傳中國，而且中國有情報法，他的中央機關可以隨時要求DeepSeek把資料給中國政府來監控，所以確實有疑慮我們才會去禁止。"],["黃委員健豪：好。部長因為你剛剛提到說的確DeepSeek有相關的問題，這大家都知道，我們也不能否認這個事實。我剛剛第二個問題是問說，其他的AI模型會不會有相關的疑慮？它的數據，它後端的資料庫裡面會不會一樣有被隨時提取的風險？這第一個問題。那第二個問題是說，因為部長剛剛在上一段質詢有提到說，你很明確說因為中國現在是我們的敵人，如果他是我們的敵人，如果這個假設認定為真的話，那DeepSeek的相關資料中共的官方可以隨時提取的話，如果我們只有官方禁止使用，民間卻沒有禁止使用，這個邏輯不是有點矛盾嗎？因為其實民間的很多資料庫裡面，或是我們民間很多資訊系統裡面，都有很多我們的敏感資訊在，還有很多我們國人的不管是政治立場也好、宗教信仰也好、各方面的資訊也好，這些東西不就也會提供給所謂的敵國來判斷、來做為情蒐的工具嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：我還是回到那一點，就是說我們要禁用任何的軟體或服務，一定要有法可循，目前禁用公務機關不能使用DeepSeek是根據危害國家資通安全產品這樣一個規範，可是那個規範只有規範到公務機關，並沒有規範到民間，所以目前在民間除非我們能夠證明DeepSeek有個資法違法，不然我們沒辦法禁用它。所以我們現在也是在分析跟蒐集，看看DeepSeek是不是真的有違反個資法，目前因為還沒有足夠的證據來證明它有違反個資法，所以我們目前並沒有禁止使用DeepSeek，還是回到法的層面。"],["黃委員健豪：部長你剛剛提的，我覺得是比較被動的，因為對數位部期待，部長你也清楚，我對數位部是非常支持的，在總預算的時候我也提醒很多次，我想我對數位部的支持你不能否認啦。所以我們今天要提的是說，今天既然有數位部的存在，後續也談到說包含現在本來要討論所謂AI基本法的問題也是一樣，如果今天你是因為有其他的法令來處理DeepSeek的問題，我們期待數位部做的是不管是DeepSeek也好，還是ChatGPT也好，還是相關後續會發展出的很多AI模型也好，我們這個母法是什麼？基本法是什麼？到底數位部什麼時候才要提出來？"],["黃部長彥男：我們事實上在去年11月就有提一個院的版本，希望在這個會期能夠再做一些文字修改，當然也參考各黨團的不同版本，我們當然是希望在這個會期能夠提出一個AI基本法。但是我要特別強調，基本法有2個層面，一個就是鼓勵AI的創新，另外一面是要考慮到人權。"],["黃委員健豪：監管嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：對，考慮到人的人權問題，所以這方面怎麼取得balance大家要再來討論，就是說過度的管理會造成AI發展的受限，但是不管理又會造成AI的危害，一個是剎車、一個是油門，什麼時候踩煞車，什麼時候踩油門？這個就是最大的問題，這需要跟社會、跟各黨團再同步溝通。"],["黃委員健豪：部長，因為你剛剛一直提到的一件事情是，我們之所以現在沒有禁止民間使用DeepSeek，或是我沒有去禁止比如說ChatGPT或是其他的AI模型在公務機關來使用的原因是因為沒有相關的法令，這是你剛剛講的嘛。那這個相關法令一直沒有出來之前，現階段民間正在使用DeepSeek也好，或是我們官方各公務機關可能有些人已經在使用ChatGPT也好，那在這變動的過程裡面，我們的這些資訊、我們的個資或是我們政府的決策，是不是數據就流出去了？會不會有這個問題？"],["黃部長彥男：我剛剛也講過，就是說原則上像這種所謂的雲端LLM的服務，在公務機關的敏感資料我們會要求避免使用，但就是說這個東西還是一樣在雲端版。但是現在這些公司包括Microsoft、包括Google，他們也知道個問題，所以慢慢會開始提供一個也不是叫地板，就是它會有一個沙盒的概念，就是把資料放在沙盒裡面而不出去，如果這是可行的話，我們會比較trust，不過這還需要進一步去驗證。不過就是說LLM確實是很多功能可以用，但是我們在公家機關使用要特別小心。"],["黃委員健豪：部長，對不起，因為我時間不夠，剩2分鐘。剛剛部長您主動提到這幾個跨國大公司，他們可能願意跟你們配合或談判。"],["黃部長彥男：沒錯。"],["黃委員健豪：可能從我們過去在談詐騙這件事情就好了，我想數位部有花了很多心力在跟Meta、Google這些跨國公司在進行相關的談判，到今年可能才相對有成效，那回到這個AI基本法的問題就好，如果回到AI基本法的問題，如果我們的數據資料也是全部掌握在這些跨國公司手上，或是像現在新的這個ChatGPT手上的話，那你數位部的立場是什麼？另外還有就是說，剛剛提到的要分等級，因為我想歐盟，你也很清楚歐盟有分出來了，有所謂基本法出來了，歐盟有分4個等級。那我們臺灣在AI基本法上面，我們參考的版本是以歐盟為主？還是南韓為主？還是怎麼樣，會有什麼樣的版本出來？"],["黃部長彥男：我們現在是同時參考美、日、英和歐盟的，歐盟主要是以管理為主，美、日、英主要是以產業推動為主，怎麼取得balance我們現在就在跟各界溝通。我是希望出來一個版本是同時能夠鼓勵AI創新，同時又能夠在適當的地方踩剎車，不要影響到人權或者是公平性、透明性或者是資安等各方面的問題。所以這的確是一個比較複雜的工作，也需要再跟社會去溝通，不過同時我們也希望說很快的在這個會期能夠提出一個版本讓大家能夠通過，在AI的規範上有所依循，避免一些可能造成的危害。"],["黃委員健豪：我想發展當然是發展的很快啦，現在大家我覺得對於民意代表、對多數民眾來講，大家擔心的反而是監管的部分，尤其是個資的部分，還有像比如說都會想像或是幻想未來AI取代人類的工作或人類思想的問題，這部分是歐盟訂的規範比較嚴格，那我要問的是說我們數位部未來在這個相關法令上面，在討論的過程裡面，在這種最高層次的監管部分，是依歐盟的標準，還是依美國的標準？"],["黃部長彥男：我們希望是用臺灣的現況、用臺灣的標準，那這個就是我們需要再跟社會溝通，我不希望訂出一個AI基本法是讓大家覺得窒礙難行，然後只是為了管理。不過就是這個東西還需要再溝通，同時希望能夠促進產業，同時又不要做一些可能因AI產生的危害，包括歧視、偏見或者是資安、正確性、透明性的問題都要一併處理，這個我們會努力。"],["黃委員健豪：好，部長，謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝。"],["主席（黃委員健豪代）：接下來請許智傑委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":360,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-2","speakers":["許智傑","洪孟楷","林國成","李昆澤","林俊憲","蔡其昌","魯明哲","陳素月","徐富癸","何欣純","邱若華","廖先翔","黃健豪","林楚茵","游顥","葛如鈞"],"page_start":311,"meetingDate":["2025-03-13"],"gazette_id":"1142601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142601_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142601_00010"}}}